OT: suggest a printer

[Arkcon]

Hey guys, I need some wise opinions from helpful people, and that sort of thing is in short supply world-wide, especially in regards to the topic at hand: Computer Printers.

My sister got a Lexmark X75 scanner/printer included with her Dell laptop. And it sucks. Truly. An ink hog, and cartridges are 35 USD$. We changed them, but, it doesn't recognize them. And the "printer driver" is this big invasive "command center" program which insists on loading, even if I uninstall it.

All this is par for the course with modern inkjet printers, but if you're using a printer you love, I'd like to hear about it.

She uses her printer to print up a copy of the quiz or exam for the classes she teaches. Which she then brings to school, photocopies it up on the school's nickel, and distributes to the class. She doesn't need a high dpi, true color, printed right to the border on photo quality paper output. Which is the only sort of thing CNET.com seems to think people at home are interested in. And business users only care about bluetooth enabled, high networking capability, at least, according to every review I've read. Nobody, apparently, just prints stuff out, to read offline, anymore.

Now as for me, I've got a Samsung ML1710. A nice, simple laser printer. No frills, works great, and dirt cheap (refurbished ~60 USD$). I probably should just get her one like mine. But, I'm open to any other ideas.

[Combat Wombat]

Well if you want no frills she could print the original copy at school and not bother with a home printer at all.

[Atrocities]

All printers built these days are ink hogs. That is how the printer industry survives. They sell you a cheap printer and then bilk you for the ink every 100 or so pages. (They say you get up to 500 pages, but I have never been able to make a cartrage last longer than 100 pages.)

Buy HP or Cannon. I like HP printers, have had good luck with them. Although the cost for ink has shot up dramatically recently.

[NullAshton]

I say get an ink printer, that way you can refill it.

[Atrocities]

NullAshton said:
I say get an ink printer, that way you can refill it.



Screw it, just buy an old IBM Electric Typewriter and be done with this computer nonsense!

[Thermodyne]

There is no easy solution. Inkjets use ink and ink cartridges cost too much. My solution is two printers. Keep the inkjet and buy a Laser printer. Use the laser for everything that does not have to be in color, save the ink for stuff that must be in color. Most things don’t need to be in color, and even photos can be proofed in grey scale. You can pick a personal laser printer up cheap these days, Dell almost gives them away. If you have a home network, spring for a network interface, then mount the printer on the network. That way everyone has use of it without worrying about shares and print hosts being left running.

[Instar]

HP 5550. It is a cheap USB inkjet that is very fast. It doesn't seem to use that much ink, just use the options to reduce ink usage.
I like it a lot. Hopefully it is still on the market.

http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/ho/WF06b/18972-236251-236261-14438-f25-71895-71897-74615.html
$100 for a printer is pretty cheap. The review I read of it in PC Mag was very favorable too...

[Mindi]

Thermodyne said:
There is no easy solution. Inkjets use ink and ink cartridges cost too much. My solution is two printers. Keep the inkjet and buy a Laser printer. Use the laser for everything that does not have to be in color, save the ink for stuff that must be in color. Most things don’t need to be in color, and even photos can be proofed in grey scale. You can pick a personal laser printer up cheap these days, Dell almost gives them away. If you have a home network, spring for a network interface, then mount the printer on the network. That way everyone has use of it without worrying about shares and print hosts being left running.



This is exactly what Richard and I do. We have two hp printers, one is a color inkjet and the other is a b&w laserjet. I try to use the inkjet basically for printing color things, mostly birthday cards, christmas cards, photos, professional paperwork with color logos, etc. We use the b&w for everything else.

The inkjet is an ink hog of course and I normally have to put in two combo packs of ink (combo pack has one black cartridge and one color cartridge) in a year. Each pack cost $35 at officemax, so that's $70 a year on ink for that printer. However the printer cost us less than 40 bucks as we got in on sale during the holidays a couple of years ago (day after Thanksgiving sale). For that price I get somewhere between 500-1000 copies depending on the amount of color the copies have. I think it's definitely worth having around for that price as the price I would pay for cards, professional reprinting of pictures and business paperwork would definitely be more than $70 a year. For a while we didn't even stick with one inkjet for color, we got what we called 'disposable printers'. There were so many sales on cheap inkjets around here that when we needed a new one we just put the old one in a garage sale or something and bought new because ink cartridges were more expensive than buying another color inkjet. But I have really liked this little hp, so I have kept it for a while now.

The laserjet prints thousands and thousands of copies and I only have to replace the cartridge about once every 12-18 months. I can buy refurbished cartridges now at officemax for about $55. We paid $200 for this printer at CompUSA right after the new low priced lasers came out a few years ago and we've had no problem with it in all that time. It's definitely been the best printer investment we have ever made.

[Kamog]

I recently purchased a Brother printer / scanner / fax multi-function unit. The black ink cartridges are $32 each and it's supposed to last for 400 or 500 pages. So far I have printed about 50 pages and it's already more than half empty! What do they mean when they say 500 pages, they must mean a mostly blank page with a couple of lines of text in tiny font at the top.

I looked into refilling the cartridges, and that costs about $20. That saves some money, though it's still expensive. Even though the printer manufacterer recommends not refilling them, of course they would say that to force you to keep buying their expensive cartridges.

[Atrocities]

They mean 500 test pages. You know the ones with virtually nothing on them. I am serious. The funny thing is, the ink cartrages cost next to nothing to make. They are a cash cow for the printer industry.

Anyone who can make cheap printer cartrages, generic, can make a killing in the industry.

[David E. Gervais]

I approach buying a printer fram the opposite direction.. I look to see what printer has the less expensive ink cartridges and then check out the printers they fit. I personally have an Epson Stylus 670 and my ink costs $7cdn/Black and $12cdn/Color (Note I buy Print-Rite compatible ink, not original Epson they cost about double.) I get about 500 pages of B&W and about 35 Full color photo quality (8.5" x 11") prints from the color.

My next printer will be a Canon, any one that has the separate color ink cartridges. (I'm leaning towards the Canon PIXMA iP4000, the ink sells for $8cdn each color and $12cdn for a double capacity Black. Oh, and it's quiet & fast.)

nuf said, Cheers! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Mindi]

Well this could be true or it could be like my inkjet. I put in cartridges in my inkjet and inevitably it will say I go through ink like crazy! I mean I print 50-100 pages and it's down to less than a quarter of a cartridge for both cartridges on my printer status window. However, in my case, it lies. I can get down to less than a quarter and print 3-5 times the amount I printed in the first 3/4 of the cartridges. Frankly I don't think the software accurately measures the amount of ink in the cartridges. This COULD be your case as well. If not you may want to look into refilled cartridges online. I used to get a lot of mine that way to save money and a lot of them have a good variety of epson, brother, lexmark, etc printer cartridges to chose from. Unfortunately for me, I haven't really found a good place for my hp cartridges that really gives me much of a discount.

[Kamog]

Thanks. Well, I hope that's the case with my printer; I guess I'll know when I print more pages. I don't think I'm going to remove the cartridge to see how full it is because the printer user manual said it's not a good idea to remove and re-insert the cartridge. Hopefully, this printer doesn't rely on the software to know when the ink is empty.

Another way to refill the cartridge is to buy a do-it-yourself refill kit that comes with bottles of ink, a syringe and a drill. You're supposed to make a hole in the used cartridge and fill it up with new ink using the syringe. This is really inexpensive, but I'm not sure about doing this because I don't know if the ink that comes in the kit is compatible with the printer.

[Mindi]

I've had good and bad results with refill kits. I used to do this with my epson printer and it worked okay. It was a little bit of a pain to get it to work at first correctly(had to clean the printheads a million times, had to do a bunch of test prints), but this did work. When I tried it with a different printer (might have been a lexmark), it didn't work as well and I could never get it to print right-always had streaks, some colors wouldn't print correctly, etc. So finally I ended up giving up on the refilling idea. Some cartridges seem to take well to it, others don't.

[David E. Gervais]

Yeah, software 'ink monitors' are bad. When my epson says the ink well is dry, I can still print a good 50 more pages in black and a good 5-6 pages in full color. I now use the old reliable method to know if the ink cart is dry. when the printout dies halfway throught the page. that's one good thing about inkjet printers, they don't fade gradually, they simply die mid-stride. It goes without saying that you 'must-have' a spare cart on hand for these occasions. I always have a spare cart of each black and color ink. when I install it, I usually get a new cart within 24 hours. I have never been in a situation where I couldn't print due to not having ink.

Cheers! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Slynky]

Then we should all be interested in this:
News Item (http://msnbc.msn.com/id/7012754/)

[David E. Gervais]

interesting tid-bit there.. I had to look at my Print-Rite carts to see if they have an expiration date.. yup, they sure do, mine are 12-2005 so I should be ok.

Cheers! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Mindi]

Yes interesting indeed Slynky. I have a combo pack of cartridges I am about to put in my printer. They are HP and they list the following "Minimum 6 month limited warranty from install before date." My install before date is Jan 2006, so I am fine but it is something I will pay attention to in the future. I have never had a problem with my hp cartridges but I imagine that is in large part to the fact that I probably run out of ink and have to get a new cartridge before the old expires.

[rdouglass]

Well, as stated before, ink printer folks are not really in the printer business but the ink cartridge business. That's why they sell printers so inexpensively. And BTW, that's the ONLY reason Kodak ever started selling cameras; so they could sell more film.

Personally, I use inkjet only when I have to. I just bought an HP LaserJet 1012 and am very happy with it. IMO laser printers are cheaper than inkjet in the long run.

I paid about $140 for the one I got and have printed over 1000 pages so far with the included toner (which BTW is a "starter" cartridge). New toner costs $39 (about the same as most color ink cartridges) and I should be able to get close to 1500 on a new one.

Except for no color, a laser printer is far more cost effective IMO. And the 1012 works great; very fast first-page-to-print and rated at 15 ppm at 1200 dpi. Pretty solid IMO.

[NullAshton]

Laser printers can have color. And they're super speedy.

[Mindi]

rdouglass said:
Well, as stated before, ink printer folks are not really in the printer business but the ink cartridge business. That's why they sell printers so inexpensively. And BTW, that's the ONLY reason Kodak ever started selling cameras; so they could sell more film.

Personally, I use inkjet only when I have to. I just bought an HP LaserJet 1012 and am very happy with it. IMO laser printers are cheaper than inkjet in the long run.

I paid about $140 for the one I got and have printed over 1000 pages so far with the included toner (which BTW is a "starter" cartridge). New toner costs $39 (about the same as most color ink cartridges) and I should be able to get close to 1500 on a new one.

Except for no color, a laser printer is far more cost effective IMO. And the 1012 works great; very fast first-page-to-print and rated at 15 ppm at 1200 dpi. Pretty solid IMO.



Yes I know about starter cartridges but when we did our 'disposable printer' days I could still print cheaper per copy with a new printer with starter cartridges then I could with new ink cartridges because of the price. Like I said though, we finally found one we liked so we've stuck with it for a while now.

Also if you notice I said I do use my laser for black and white printing, but at the moment I don't want to sink the money into the type of color laser I would want. So for now we have stuck with the inkjet for color.

I am happy with my laser (I am happy with both of my printers actually) but for someone who doesn't want to sink the dollars into a color laser, having a color inkjet and a b&w laser is a good compromise.

Eventually we will probably buy a color laser, but I really want to wait to buy another printer until we have the money to invest in a wide format printer because some of my projects could benefit from it.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

NullAshton said:
Laser printers can have color. And they're super speedy.


How?

[Atrocities]

A few years ago my company decided to get all new printers and throw away their old DOT MATRIX ones. I got about 20 old dot matrix that I then sold on Ebay for about $60.00 to $100.00 each. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Then the company realized the horrible mistake they made and offered to buy them back. I had only six left and I offered to sell them each back for $200.00. SOLD. I could have asked $1,000 for each and they would have paid. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif I did not know this at the time, but those DOT Matrix printers, could print in color and originally cost $20,000 each or so I was told. Man I was a retard. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[Thermodyne]

narf poit chez BOOM said:

NullAshton said:
Laser printers can have color. And they're super speedy.


How?

They use 4 toner colors. We have some HP4600 color laser printers and they work well, but eat $100 cartridges like George Forman eats burgers.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

I must admit I've never tried to figure out how laser printers work and that the last time I saw one in action was maybe 10-12 years ago. What's toner?

[Suicide Junkie]

Basically, its dry ink powder.

The laser is used to set up a pattern of charged/neutral areas on the roller, which then picks up ink with the static charge, and melts it onto the page.

---

Somebody should invent a "superlaser" printer, that scorches the top layers of the paper black and dosen't need any ink at all. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Thermodyne]

Suicide Junkie said:
Basically, its dry ink powder.

The laser is used to set up a pattern of charged/neutral areas on the roller, which then picks up ink with the static charge, and melts it onto the page.

---

Somebody should invent a "superlaser" printer, that scorches the top layers of the paper black and dosen't need any ink at all. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif



LOL, I had a LJ III that more or less did that the other day. Pages came out dark brown and smoking.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Suicide Junkie said:
Basically, its dry ink powder.

The laser is used to set up a pattern of charged/neutral areas on the roller, which then picks up ink with the static charge, and melts it onto the page.

---

Somebody should invent a "superlaser" printer, that scorches the top layers of the paper black and dosen't need any ink at all. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif


Funny...I always thought that that was how they worked... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Ok, given that a laser is photons and not electrons, how does it set up static charges?

[Instar]

Well, what printer to get depends on what you want -- laser printers are more expensive up front, but use less ink. Buy laser if you want to print lots and lots of B&W pages... or a color laser if you're really into it. Otherwise, get an inkjet and use the minimum ink settings (HP5550 is the way to go! I love mine)

[Spoo]

narf poit chez BOOM said:
Ok, given that a laser is photons and not electrons, how does it set up static charges?



The photons ionize some of the atoms in the roller.

[Thermodyne]

The Roller is a Fuser. And they will instantly blister your fingertips if you touch it while clearing a paper jam.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Thanks. SJ already said it was photoelectric on the #spaceempires channel. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Atrocities]

For me a printer that can print nice color photo images is all I need. A scanner ability is nice as well but I could never figure out what is the best DPI settting for a scanner / printer so I really if the printer can just print documents its ok in my book.

[rdouglass]

Thermodyne said:
SNIP....
They use 4 toner colors. We have some HP4600 color laser printers and they work well, but eat $100 cartridges like George Forman eats burgers.



Yeah, we have a coupla' 4600's as well for departmental printers but we just bought an HP 2550 and that has been an exceptional color laser for the money - less than $500!

EDIT: BTW, where are you getting $100 toners for a 4600? Are they refurb'ed?

[Thermodyne]

rdouglass said:

Thermodyne said:
SNIP....
They use 4 toner colors. We have some HP4600 color laser printers and they work well, but eat $100 cartridges like George Forman eats burgers.



Yeah, we have a coupla' 4600's as well for departmental printers but we just bought an HP 2550 and that has been an exceptional color laser for the money - less than $500!

EDIT: BTW, where are you getting $100 toners for a 4600? Are they refurb'ed?



From HP but through the Dept. of Ed contract. $118 per IIRC

[rdouglass]

Thermodyne said:
..through the Dept. of Ed contract.



That says it all. /threads/images/Graemlins/Envy.gif