Star Trek Mod - Please need some help

[Jestak]

Greetings,

I am playing SEIV Gold since about 1 month. I am pretty new to this game. I installed the Star Trek Mod (Latest version) a few days ago and I have a problem with the game play.

My problem is simple. I can attack planets, but my attacks have little effect. Let me explain:

I chose to play the Borg. I created different ships equipped with different weapons. Tactical cubes with Planetary napalm IV, tactical cubes with biologic weapons, tactical cubes with photon torpedoes, etc. I built HUGE fleets of 40-50 tactical cubes with a mix of all those weapons and then go to attack the enemy planets.

With the standard SEIV, I have no problem at all. But with the Star Trek mod, I make my fleet to attack planets but the is very little effect. I see the population going down a little bit, I see the planet blockaded and I see the supplies of my fleet going down to zero after a few attacks. Then I need to wait many turns for my solar collectors to resupply the ships. Then I attack again and again, I see the population going down just a little bit.

Like I said, with the normal SEIV, the planet would have been glassed at the first turn.

What am I doing wrong?

Thank you

EDIT:
This is not a calendar event.

[Zaamon]

I dont play STM much, but i think what is wrong. Planet glassing is much harder and you should use troops to conquer that planet. So build troops and transports.

[Randallw]

You are doing nothing wrong. I can't be certain but clearly Atrocities modded the Star Trek mod to reduce the amount of population death per point of damage. This is so that planetary populations can't be glassed in one turn. It also encourages you to try and capture the planet.

[Zaamon]

That is what i was trying to say.

BTW. Welcome to forum.

OT: no one ever sayed Welcome to me.

[Randallw]

I can see you meant the same thing. I wrote my reply at the same time as you. We just happened to say the same thing. Also don't worry. I don't remember being welcomed or not. It doesn't bother me.

[Zaamon]

Neither do i. But still.

[Jestak]

Greetings,

Thank you for the welcoming...:)
Here is another stupid question. Do you know where in the files I must check to see the population "resistance" to the damage of the planetary weapons? I am curious to compare with the normal SEIV scenario. I was able to find the ship design and the tech design. Quite interesting. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Thank you

[Randallw]

It's in Data/Settings

Damage Points To Kill One Population := 50

The normal one is

Damage Points To Kill One Population := 10

so it's 5 times as hard to kill population in the star trek mod.

[Jestak]

Greetings,

Thank you for the fast answer. I just did a small test and I am still puzzled.

My fleet has at least 400,000 damage points (all napalm and planetary bombs. I did not count the plasma torpedoes and other weapons). The planet has 5000M population. In one attack, the population went down to 4732M.

Does it make sense? to you?

Thank you

Thank you

[Zaamon]

Some damage go to buildings.

[Randallw]

I'm sorry but you'll have to wait for someone who knows more to come along. I'm not aware of exactly how everything works. I am faintly aware there is a whole formula that involves destroying the weapons platforms first and cargo before the damage moves over to population. You say you haven't counted the torpedo damage, are you aware that all weapons damage works the same on population, it's just that bombs are made specifically to target population. If there is quite alot of the other types of weapons they might be responsible for the disparity in the final amount.

[Jestak]

Greetings,

Thank you for your answers. I feel you are right. Anyway, I'll change my strategy and capture the planets instead of glassing them. And if it really does not work, I'll just change back the seeting to 10...:)

Tis mod is still very fun to play.

Thank you

[Ragnarok-X]

After all arent the borg supposed to capture planets ? I guess the population is eagerly waiting to be incorporated into the hive http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Jestak]

Greetings,

In fact, if we refer to most of the Star Trek literature and to the few relevant episodes in TNG, the borgs capture the population and incorporate them into their "cubes".

They also "beam up" large parts of land (i.e.: I think it is at the beginning of the first best of both worlds episode that you see an away team lead by Riker standing by a large part of land that has been removed from a planet).

The Star Trek mod is fabulously done. However, I would have liked to see two things:
- The cubes are HUGE ships (100 times larger than the Enterprise) and very fast with incredible shields. So, the Borgs should have tactical cubes with, let's say, 10000 of tonnage...hehe
- The Borgs assimilate technologies. I did not read they were doing researches really (Maybe there is one reference in the Star Trek movie First Contact). So, they could have started with a hedge in the technology and have a hedge in the intelligence (To simulate the high assimilation of technologies).

In any way, the mod is incredible and in no way, I am criticizing it.

I have another question: SEIV, construction rate. I noticed it took forever to build ships with Quantum things to colapse and open warp points. Where does it say how long it takes to build a component? I did look in the components file, but I can's see any reference to it.

Thank you

Thank you

[Ron_Lugge]

Expense yields time to construct -- ships are constructed XXX resources a turn, not YYY turns to build a component.

[El_Phil]

How long components take depends on how fast the shipyard builds at. So a ship with components that costs 10,000 mineral being built at a yard that builds with a rate of 2,000 mineral/turn takes 5 turns. Same for Rads and Organics.

So with a 2000/2000/2000 yard and a ship costing 4000 mineral, 1000 Rads and 1000 Organics it would still take 2 turns, even though the rads and organics would be finished in one turn.

Hope thats clear.

[Jestak]

Greetings,

aaaaah! It makes sense. I took that one from the Star Trek mod, but I assume it is close with the normal SEIV:

Name := Gravitational Quantum Resonator III
Description := Gravitational beam which opens a new warp point to a nearby system.
Pic Num := 41
Tonnage Space Taken := 100
Tonnage Structure := 100
Cost Minerals := 70000
Cost Organics := 0
Cost Radioactives := 30000

It is 100,000 resources cost. A lot more than a dreadnought hull.

Thank you

[El_Phil]

Sort of.

The resources are seperate, so it's a 70000 Mineral cost only. You'd add that to the mineral cost of all the other components. Do the same for Rads and Organics and find which of the three is the highest, then divide that by the rate of the shipyard to get build time.

[Strategia_In_Ultima]

This can indeed be very..... annoying - say, you're building a Tactical cube, and an event kills even 10M pop on a several B planet, you might experience slower production - look in Seetings for the population "threasholds" where you get increased production - and it might take another 3 turns extra. Or, also not so very nice, you can build at 2k minerals per turn and you have a ship costing 10300 minerals. It will STILL take six turns to finish.

[Ragnarok-X]

Then again i experienced player will just cut off some components and do a retrofit run, majorly decreasing the time to complete a a fleet / a ship at only minorly increased cost.

[Jestak]

Greetings,

It is exactly what I was thinking. Excuses my inexperience of the game. But can I build almost empty cubes then build many ships with space yards or repair units and make a fleet. Then I retrofit my cubes and incorporate them in the repair fleet. If I can repair tens of components by turns, I would be able to build the ships ASAP.

Thank you

[Captain Kwok]

You could do that, but there is a maximum cost difference between the two designs (usually 150%) allowed for retrofitting, so it won't really help all that much in your situation.

[Jestak]

Greetings,

I saw that difference of cost. Is it 150% more or 150% of the initial cost (50% more)? I am not English speaking born, so I don't understood this nuance in the text :

Initial ship cost 100.
Can you upgrade to 150 (50%) or 250 (150%)?

And once you upgraded, let's say it is 150 with an initial 100. And you upgrade again. Did the basis change to 150 or is it still 100?

Thank you

[Ragnarok-X]

Total counts. If a ship costs 2000 minerals 500 organics and 1000 radioactives, it is summed to a total of 3500 resources. When retrofitting, the new design is allowed to have a maximum TOTAL cost of 3500 * 150% = 5250 resources. Another retroseries is allowed to have 5250 * 150% then.

This can be even further exploited when adding components which only minorly increase mineral cost, but more organic oder radioactive cost. For example, the first design (which you construct and not retrofit) should hold alot of plague bombs. Those cost of lot of organics, but few minerals. That way, your TOTAL cost will majorly increase (and therefor the next 150% are more as well) while the total buildtime will not increase since you are only using more organics. Get me ?

[Captain Kwok]

The total cost of the new design cannot be more than 1.5x the total cost of the old design. For example, you could retrofit a ship that cost 1000 in resources to one that cost 1500.

Yes, you can also use a series of retrofits to overcome this hurdle. It's commonly referred to as "retroseries" building.

[Jestak]

Thank you very much for the fast answer!!!!

[Strategia_In_Ultima]

Don't apologize for your being new to the game, everyone was at some point. Almost everybody who registers here (talking about tha last month or so) at some point apologizes for "asking noob questions", but that is not required at all. Questions are questions, regardless. You'll be treated with as much respect and your questions will be answered in the same way as if you were a long-time forum regular.

[AngleWyrm]

You can build several designs, and step through them all as soon as your ship's first design is complete. For instance, you can build a nearly empty hull with only enough componants to eliminate the warning lights (crew quarters, life support, bridge). Then as soon as that is done, which happens quickly, upgrade it to version two, then version three, etc right up to the finished version. You don't have to wait for the interim versions to be built either, you can retrofit all the way up before pressing turn. You'll get the final version, but with heavy damage. It will take NumberOfDamagedParts/5 or so to finish the job.

[Atrocities]

Zaamon said:
That is what i was trying to say.

BTW. Welcome to forum.

OT: no one ever sayed Welcome to me.



Welcome to the forum. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif To both of you.

The planets are based upon the assumption that in the Star Trek universe, ala DS9 episodes, planets are not glassed, but conqured and that to attack a planet with troops and ships is a risky thing to do. You had better have enough ships to penetrate the planets defenses, and enough troops to take the planet.

STM is NOT your stock version of the game.

And yes welcome to

[AngleWyrm]

Jestak said:
- The Borgs assimilate technologies. I did not read they were doing researches really (Maybe there is one reference in the Star Trek movie First Contact). So, they could have started with a hedge in the technology and have a hedge in the intelligence (To simulate the high assimilation of technologies).



YES! This would be an excellent idea! The Borg should have superior borg boarding parties technology, so that they can take over enemy ships, and then as soon as they have taken it over, they ASSIMILATE IT. This could be a device that works similar to a shipyard, but does not build ships. The player could analyze any ship captured on the spot.

[Atrocities]

They do have superior boarding technology and pacification weappons as well. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[AngleWyrm]

Cool, that makes sense.

Don't know if just making Space Yard ability will activate the "analyze" button, but it's worth a shot.

<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>Name := Borg Assimilator
Description := Used to assimilate alien technological distinctiveness (analyze captured vessels).
Pic Num := 29
Tonnage Space Taken := 20
Tonnage Structure := 20
Cost Minerals := 150
Cost Organics := 150
Cost Radioactives := 150
Vehicle Type := Ship
Supply Amount Used := 0
Restrictions := None
General Group := Borg Technology
Family := 2262
Roman Numeral := 0
Custom Group := 0
Number of Tech Req := 1
Tech Area Req 1 := Borg Technology
Tech Level Req 1 := 1
Number of Abilities := 1
Ability 1 Type := Space Yard
Ability 1 Descr := Used to analyze captured vessels.
Ability 1 Val 1 := 1
Ability 1 Val 2 := 1
Weapon Type := None</pre><hr />

[Atrocities]

Not sure if this will work as you expect it. You see any shipyard can analyze captured vessels.

[AngleWyrm]

Just tried it out with several Borg escourts. First contact was with the dominion. The Borg escourts attacked and borded Dominion vessels (had researched Borg bording parties, and got the sheild depleter and anti-personnel gun). Successfully captured the dominion ships, and when combat ended I was able to press the scrap/analyze button and select 'analyze'.

[Captain Kwok]

Interesting. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

I might "adapt" this for my Broccoli race in the Space Food Empires mod.

[Atrocities]

Oh I see what your saying, add the ability to the Boarding party...... Hummmmmmmmmmm... This does raise my interst emensly. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

The problem, rather question is, with the space yard ability what stops the component from becoming a cheap ship yard?

[Captain Kwok]

A zero build rate!

[AngleWyrm]

Heh, posted at the same time.

In the example one I used 1mineral, no organics, no radioactives.

Adding the ability directly to the boarding parties, so they can do the assimilating--great idea!

EDIT: Dam, just realized something. All the bording parties are destroyed during ship capture, so the ability might be wasted on bording parties. Have ta check.

[douglas]

Besides the destruction of boarding parties when they board, the space yard ability would force them to be one per ship max. It's best as a separate special purpose component IMO.

[Captain Kwok]

I agree - no reason to assign it with boarding parties.

[AngleWyrm]

Ya, just tried it; only one space yard per ship flag appears, zero build rate worked ok, and the 'analyze' button wouldn't activate while the componant was damaged. Looks like a separate componant would be the way to go.

[Fyron]

A build rate of 0 means that an infinite number of resources will be available for construction. You need at least 1.

[Captain Kwok]

Fyron tells me that 0 = infinite build rate, so perhaps a value of 1 would be ideal for the component.

[Atrocities]

I have to say this is a very interesting idea wyrm.

[AngleWyrm]

Thanks! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Maybe if all three build-with values are set to zero, then you get infinite build--dunno on that one. Just tried to construct a ship using one of these customized 'ship yard' ability componants, and the following code resulted in build time:Never
<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>Number of Abilities := 1
Ability 1 Type := Space Yard
Ability 1 Descr := Used to analyze captured vessels.
Ability 1 Val 1 := 0
Ability 1 Val 2 := 0</pre><hr />

[Fyron]

Did you wait a turn? I haven't explicitly tested component SYs, but I know that facilities with 0 rate will definitely give instantaneous building (one turn delay of course). It shows the build time as never, but it isn't actually never.

[AngleWyrm]

No, I just saw 'never' and assumed it meant never. Will check.

EDIT: it didn't build after three turns it still said never. Could be that it needs four abilities (ship yard, build with minerals, build with organics, build with radiation) in order to get infinite build times, whereas the one I've been messing around with has only one ability (ship yard). Component.txt attached as zip

[douglas]

I just tested this, and here's what I got:

If a ship or planet has a space yard rate of 0 for a resource, that resource will be completely ignored for contruction. Not only is it all done instantly, you don't even have to pay for it. Other resources must still be paid in full at the appropriate rate, however.

If all three rates are 0, whether through a space yard ability with 0 rate or the complete lack of a space yard ability for that resource at all, no construction gets done at all.

[Fyron]

Hmm... interesting. I only had two resources at zero with space yard expansion facilities.

[Atrocities]

Can you post the component file you used? I would like to test this as well.

[Captain Kwok]

Ok - so just using a single Space Yard ability by itself without specifying a resource or build rate will allow for the analysis but never build anything - is that correct?

[douglas]

Here you go. I added 13 copies of the Space Yard I component renamed to reflect which resources are set to 0 construction. With the first 7, I set the rate to 0. With the last 6 (labelled alternate) I actually deleted the space yard abilities for the 0 rate resources and adjusted the number of abilities. I increased the radioactives cost by 1000 so that each of the three resources produces a different build time. To test, make one base space yard design with each modded space yard, build one, and then have each new base build the next. You'll have to deselect show latest only to see them all. For testing that you don't actually pay the amount for 0-rate construction, design a starbase with a huge number of quantum reactors and build it with a no-minerals space yard.

No, this isn't what I used initially, but I like being thorough with what I release for public consumption http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif.

Edit: Yes, Kwok, a space yard with 0 rate for everything will allow analyzation, retrofitting, scrapping, etc. but not building.

[QuarianRex]

Here is a quick Borg mod that I posted about a year ago...

BorgMod.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1035747855.zip)

It is designed around the kind of gameplay that you're describing. The Borg have virtually no research potential and have to get all of their Tech from analysis. It has zero level shipyards called Assimilation Nodes, Borg boarding parties that have Organic Regeneration so that a single Cube could capture more than one ship per combat, a Boarding Cannon to take out SDDs, and other such goodies.

It had a unique feel to gameplay and worked quite well. It was quite a change of pace to constantly be behind the tech curve. Have a look for yourself.

I haven't gotten around to addapting it to STM yet but I think I just might to se how it goes.

[EaX]

Borg mod????? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif i must see that!!!

[Jestak]

Greetings,

Just to let you know I finally was able to capture planets with the Star Trek mod...hehehehe

It took me a while to get it right and a few thousands troops.

Just one stupid question: In tactical, is it possible to drop all your troops at the same time and not just choosing the ship, then give the drop troop order and see you poor 400 troops getting slaughtered by 850 militia while you are 2000 troops waiting in 20 transports in orbit?

It is like living again D-day and sending Tom Hanks to the beaches....hehehehe

Thank you

[Atrocities]

I am afraid not. Its first come first selected first dropped. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif So the larger the transport, the more troops you have. Also the size of your troops plays a part. Infantry is weaker and much less likely to capture a planet, but you can build a lot of them really cheap so they are often the best cost effective solution. However the larger Troops are the better for going after planets.

[Fyron]

You could make ground combat last only 1 or 2 rounds. This way, there is a good chance that multiple transports can be used without entire loads being slaughtered and the militia automagically being regenerated from nothing within the same game day...

Make militia have a lot more hit points too. These changes will allow the defender to drop reinforcement troops as well, as it will likely take several game turns to finish conquering the planet. No longer does ground combat have to resolve in a single round...