Invisible Swarm III: over [Archive] - Page 2

Alneyan

June 19th, 2005, 03:06 PM

I haven't read Lovecraft either; I simply know a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who might have read Lovecraft.

Dear Jurri: While we perfectly understand your angst, your hatred, your ire and your one-mile-long mean streak, we must stick to our word: sorry, no can do. Furthermore, we should like to point out that the subject of which you talk in such depreciatory terms (myself, in other words) cannot receive the unflattery epithet "shank".

We hope you will have a better grasp of our position after this standard procedure of enlightenment and clarification. Now, where do you sign up to join the Celestial Bureaucracy?

jeffr

June 19th, 2005, 03:18 PM

I can't connect either, so I'm assume the server is still down.

Jurri

June 19th, 2005, 04:30 PM

Pasha, Alneyan, you really should! HPL kicks ***. His works are in fact floating around the internet, as they are probably in the public domain. (Arkham House claims copyright, but lacks the necessary evidence of it being renewed properly.) F. ex. Wikipedia holds most of the works, and googling yields the rest; since the issue is in dispute I probably shouldn't post the direct links.

I like the earlier works more, especially the Temple. The later Cthulhu-mythology stuff is more relevant to the reference, though http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Furthermore, we should like to point out that the subject of which you talk in such depreciatory terms (myself, in other words) cannot receive the unflattery epithet "shank" [sic].

Why's that, now? Certainly anything is possible if you put your mind to it. With a little effort, I'm sure you'll be perfectly capable of receiving the nomen http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I don't even want you anymore, after that rejection! Or do I, and try to hide my hurt feelings by denial? I'll name my Thing that Should not Be after you, though. (Alneyan, the Thing that Should not Be. How poetic!) ...Just jesting, mon ami, naturally.

Speaking of such Things, I notice they lose their life draining attacks if they get a weapon or a shield, and they have a head. Is this supposed to be so? I mean, aren't the tentacles the cause for the life-drain attacks, rather than the hands? And at least the graphic doesn't show a head.

YellowCactus

June 19th, 2005, 08:59 PM

I remember reading Lovecraft in college. Something about rats in the walls. That guy was disturbed...erm, even more disturbed than us.
-Yc

CUnknown

June 19th, 2005, 11:54 PM

Sorry guys!

Lightning fried my power supply to my cable modem, I need to get another one. I'm renting, so it isn't a big deal, I will just go down to the Charter office tomorrow. That was a serious storm, I'm glad I shut off my computer. I forgot about my modem, though.

Server will be up tomorrow around 7-8pm!

PashaDawg

June 20th, 2005, 12:23 AM

Ok. Sorry to hear about the frying.

Alneyan

June 20th, 2005, 05:07 AM

Pasha, I believe Jurri's calling me a skank, and assorted taunts, qualify as being libel, calumny, slander, defamation... and the like? I thought so.

I will sue Jurri in this case, and will sue him again and again until there's not much left of him to sue. I will sue him out of existence altogether! Of course, you will be working pro bona fide, won't you? Of course you will, what a stupid question.

Just pick an appropriate location for all those trials... I believe the prosecution gets to show where we will go. And work on adding charges to that tentacled weirdo: I believe first degree manslaughters (literally the slaughters of mankind), felony, high treason, and spitting on a public location would make for other fine charges... Get working!

The power of Law trumps the power of Cthulhu, that much is certain. That, and I won't have to do anything to fight you with the Law, while more... mundane means would require some work from me (like figuring out where I put that "A Primer to Repartee", or which end of a sword is used for business, or... You get the picture). So get cracking, Pasha!

PashaDawg

June 20th, 2005, 08:44 AM

Dear Alneyan:

The Majesty of the Law is without peers, but the Law is a jealous mistress.

The proper venue for your case would be in the United States because of the location of this bulletin board. Therefore, you must deal with the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, which protects Jurri's right to free speech. Given that your posts on the bulletin board exceed 2666 in number, I figure that there is a high chance that any court would rule that you are a �public figure,� and therefore, people can get away with saying things about you more easily because you have placed yourself in the spotlight of public scrutiny and your life is now a matter of common public inquiry and perhaps even newsworthy.

In addition, Jurri will probably assert the defense of "truth", because only false statements can be defamatory. Is it possible that Jurri will produce witnesses of your "shankness" whose veracity will be difficult to refute?

In terms of your other claims for manslaughter, felony, et al., you do not have standing to bring such claims to the Court, because they are criminal matters and must be prosecuted by the State. Nonetheless, I will review the law concerning any associated private remedies that you might hold at your disposal (e.g., assault, battery, false imprisonment, etc.)

In terms of my fee, I will need a retainer of 7000 euro before I can begin work, and I shall charge 150 euro per hour for my time. I have certainly taken many cases pro bono, but unfortunately your case is not of the type of cases I routinely take without sufficient remuneration.

Thank you, Alneyan, for considering my office for your legal needs. Once I receive the retainer, I will have my assistant schedule another interview.

Sincerely,

Pasha

Alneyan

June 20th, 2005, 09:10 AM

On second thoughts, I think I will pursue more mundane means, seeing just how expensive your fees are. We do not give our dear President that much money, so why should you get a prince's ransom? Tsk, tsk.

Nonetheless, we thank you for your answer, and promise not to harm you bodily... not too much, at any rate. Public figures have been known to be annoyed by the masses, time and again, and have resolved to using devices including, but not limited to: mobile phones, golf clubs, and two-handed swords.

On another note of interest, we will try to make his slander a case of violating national security: not only is Jurri's libel is defamatory, but his words are a direct threat to the establishment, for calling someone a skank is an invitation to be dated, stalked, or otherwise assaulted. Seeing how I am part of the local entity made by those boards, any threat to my safety is most naturally a matter of concern for the greater body of government.

As stated above however, we will handle this case on our own, relying on our own associates. If we are thwarted in court, other means shall be used as deemed appropriate... or we will simply sue Jurri time and again, under every single jurisdiction in the whole world and beyond, until being involved in seventeen trials (all happening at the same moment, of course) brings his peaceful demise.

Attached to this document is a sample of our Blackmail directory, under the Pasha heading: one such attachment will come with every single letter we forward to your office, though we may forward such data to other parties at our own discretion.

Jurri

June 20th, 2005, 09:48 AM

Oh! I do believe that the ecclesiastical court takes precedence in matters involving supernatural beings. And since I'm a creature of the R'lyeh Pantheon, it's only natural that the trial be held in the main Temple located in the Sunken City. So, prepare your scuba-gear and be welcome! Of course, since it's wartime you may have to wait a couple eons before I have the time to process you, er, your claims (being, naturally, the Judge Supreme in my own court), but once I ascend I'm sure omnipresence will allow for a swift execution. Execution of the trial, of course, I mean.

I do expect you to file the libel in a swift manner, though! I'm sure it will provide great entertainment for a war-torn nation.

Alneyan

June 20th, 2005, 09:57 AM

You are going way too quickly, dear Jurri: your status as a supernatural being does not put you out of the range of civil courts. Pasha has already pointed out we are under the jurisdiction of the United States here: as the state is secular, civil courts are certainly able to judge individuals holding rank in various religions, R'lyeh included.

In addition, the actions of R'lyeh are currently being a concern for humankind and all nations: as such, I believe your case would fall before the international court, on grounds of war crimes, deliberate attempts to wipe out humankind, and genocides. Of course, your priestly status does not grant you legal immunity in international jurisdiction either: your own supernatural authorities will try you as they deem it fit.

Enough talking: your trial is scheduled to start at 0800, local time, somewhere in Nebraska: I don't think they take too kindly to your otherwordly kind there. Of course, location of the trial may be altered if I find a more suitable location for the trial.

Jurri

June 20th, 2005, 11:23 AM

Ah, while secular courts surely try priests and others religiously involved, there is no precedence of a god being tried anywhere, methinks. Also, you being a skank has since become a tenet of faith in the religion of the peaceloving and gentle squid-people: Thus it is only via an appeal to the ecclesiastical (<-love the word! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/skull.gif) court that the creed can be changed.

Nothing stops your puny human court from holding its charade with me in absentia, but I'm pretty confident there are no international agreements between R'lyeh and Nebraska that would grant their rulings any merit hereabouts.

It should also be mentioned that the only war crimes here are Abysia's unwarranted attack without warning upon the grand nation of R'lyeh, despite oaths and treaties proclaiming otherwise. Never, ever, trust the malicious Aku, if you value your citizens, it seems. And of course Ulm's pouncing on a war-weakened nation is utterly without honor and condemnable by all! R'lyeh's dominion is in fact the most benevolent in the entire multiverse, promoting orderly growth and wonders for all our human cattl... friends.

Cainehill

June 20th, 2005, 12:35 PM

Jurri said:
Ah, while secular courts surely try priests and others religiously involved, there is no precedence of a god being tried anywhere, methinks.

Untrue. There was at least one episode of Ally McBeal in which a child launched a lawsuit against God, leading the church to get involved and attempt to alleviate some circumstances which were causing the lawsuit.

Alneyan

June 20th, 2005, 12:59 PM

Jurri: have you filled the "Becoming a God/Goddess/Pretender thingy" forms in triplicate? Of course you didn't! Do you have the relevant papers, including unrefutable proof of seven miracles performed by yourself? I don't think you have that either.

Consequently, you will be denied the status of God/Goddess/Pretender thingy from the time being, until you can regularise your situation. Until then, we will work on suing you back to Betelgeuse. Oh, and you should also wipe out the position *before* claiming to be a God/Goddess/Pretender thingy: until further notice, Pretenders are a dime the dozen, so you are nothing to write home about, really... especially as home is so far away.

CUnknown

June 20th, 2005, 05:52 PM

Hehe, I am almost sorry to disturb the legal goings-on in this thread, but I am back online and the server is back up. We are waiting on Jeffr only for this turn (he apparently finished his turn, but it didn't register).

Aku

June 20th, 2005, 06:31 PM

i cant connect...did your ip change?

CUnknown

June 20th, 2005, 07:42 PM

Yeah. The new IP is: 68.117.223.234.

Sorry!

Boron

June 20th, 2005, 07:53 PM

CUnknown said:
Yeah. The new IP is: 68.117.223.234.

Sorry!

No need for apologizing.
And thanks again for the marvelous job you do with hosting this game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

jeffr

June 20th, 2005, 08:47 PM

A new turn is up. And I also thank you (CUnkown, that is) for hosting the game.

Now to go look and see what happened.

Jurri

June 21st, 2005, 10:01 AM

Caine sure shut me up with that... Man, that must be one retarded piece of television!

I, also, appreciate your hard work CU. Won't soften the beating I'm about to administer, though. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Oversway

June 21st, 2005, 11:27 AM

I don't know Cainehill at all but from reading his posts, I never figured him for an Ally McBeal fan http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Boron

June 22nd, 2005, 05:58 AM

I think Pan is now my most hated nation http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif.
Your combination of raids and strong attacks is really good Jeff. I wonder if i can find something to make the war more interesting for you or if it will be just another cakewalk for you http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif

CUnknown

June 22nd, 2005, 01:24 PM

Speaking as probably the next in line for the Jeffr steamroller...

Go Boron!!!

PashaDawg

June 22nd, 2005, 06:04 PM

I thought Boron's jaguar warriors were trashing Pan. What happened?

CUnknown

June 22nd, 2005, 07:39 PM

They were trashing Ctis and Tien Chi, but Pan is a different matter! I think you just heard wrong, Pasha.

Has there been a big battle of Jaguars v Centaurs yet though? My spies didn't see.

jeffr

June 22nd, 2005, 09:49 PM

New turn is up.

And, whoa, what propaganda is this, Boron? Who attacked who first http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

You are retaking the few lands I managed to raid with my small forces. You have just destroyed two of my raiding forces with your very impressive Jaguars. The days of just waltzing through PD are over, I think.

I may have won one battle, but I see one 130+ Jaguar force next to me and another 60+ Jaguar/Eagle Warrior force marching my way. And I'm stuck at this damn 350 defense Dark Citadel besieging a bunch of damn slaves.

I haven't looked at the new turn yet (I will after I type this, hopeuflly something good happened for the good guys http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif), but this talk of cakewalks is great diplomacy on your part http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Boron

June 23rd, 2005, 02:49 PM

jeffr said:
I haven't looked at the new turn yet (I will after I type this, hopeuflly something good happened for the good guys http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif), but this talk of cakewalks is great diplomacy on your part http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Lol you are even besieging my Capitol.
You are playing great diplomacy too.
Reminds me on Barbarossa.
You, Pangenea, the evil precessor of the third reich, attacks the poor and innocent precessor of the soviet union, mictlan.
Your offensives succeed with few casualities but even those casualities you exploit well with propaganda http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif.

World unite against the evil empire of Pangenea. They are worse than Mordor and the third reich together http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif.

P.S.: The above part is only for entertainment. I hope you find it funny too.
You are seriously doing a good job with your pangenea jeffr http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

CUnknown

June 23rd, 2005, 03:17 PM

The world erupts in a devastating war, consuming all nations and leaving none unscathed! Even those who dwell beneath the sea fear for their lives. The nature worshippers attack with great ardor, leaving their forest home to ravage the world, now opposed only by an equally bloodthirsty and savage race of slavers and demon worshippers.

On the other side of the world, the great and wonderful nation of Ulm (our heros) fight to protect their homeland from a disgusting alien race fallen from the stars, and has recently been betrayed by an equally disgusting race of "philosophers." This word is not in the Ulmish dictionary, and has been borrowed straight from the Arcosepalean. We are sure it means something like "evil-doer" or "big-headed one," but we're not sure. It is turning into a popular insult on playgrounds everywhere.

Ulm, being the peaceful and noble race that they are, has offered several just and fair peace treaties to these two evil races, but they spit in the face of our generosity and choose war and destruction instead.

Yet, Ulm is aided by a virtuous and true race of demons! Working together, the nations of Ulm and Abyssia will surely conquer their foes, and peace will return to the land.

(how is that for propaganda?)

(This game has been great so far guys! I think I would rank it up there among my favorite games played. It seems like everyone (of the 6 remaining factions) has a chance to win at this point--and it's turn 45! I can't remember another game that has been this close. I think the mods have really helped balance things out, even though they may have added some balance problems, they've eliminated many more balance problems than they've added. Where are the air queens? Where are the legions of ghost riders demolishing everything? They don't exist and probably won't, at least for a good long while. It gives everyone a chance, I think.)

CUnknown

June 23rd, 2005, 11:23 PM

I just have to say:

DAMN YOU PASHA! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif

You're going to kill my sweet innocent blood hunters. All they want to do is enslave virgins!!! I mean come on. Can you think of a more virtuous lifestyle than that? They don't deserve it. How dare you!!

PashaDawg

June 24th, 2005, 12:34 AM

/threads/images/Graemlins/Dagger.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/icon42.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Dagger.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/icon42.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Dagger.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/icon42.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Dagger.gif

Pasha-Du, the Luminescent Shedu of Arco, certainly regrets any distress caused to our good friend, CUnknown, the Lord of Ulm. However, the Council of Philosophers just recently passed a resolution commanding the continued pursuit of Arco's War of Defensive Aggression against the Dominion of Ulm. Until the Lord of Ulm offers suitable reparations to Arco for Ulm's past and continued unscrupulous insults to Arco's sovereignty, the Sacred Flying Horseys of Arco shall patrol the skies in the name of Virtue, Love and Freedom.

If you insist, His Luminescence can provide you with a partial transcript of the Council's debate on said resolution.

/threads/images/Graemlins/Dagger.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/icon42.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Dagger.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/icon42.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Dagger.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/icon42.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Dagger.gif

Boron

June 24th, 2005, 07:23 AM

The once great realm of Mictlan is no more. The evil nature freaks have destroyed us. All our western possesions are lost.
In our last battle at our citadel we lost almost our whole army while we didn't inflict any noticeable casualities upon the hideous agressors. The days of Mictlan are counted /threads/images/Graemlins/Cold.gif

jeffr

June 24th, 2005, 08:34 AM

Partial Lies, Partial Lies, I say !!!!

While the forces of Good managed to carry the field at a rather insignificant western rockpile, the bloodsuckers inflicted massive damage to the liberating forces !!!

The fire 9 / water 9 blessed jaguar warrior (that turns into a jaguar or something similar when killed, and keeps it's bless) proved to be very strong. I thought I had the advantage, and did manage to carry the day, but the filthy bastards wiped out most(80%) of the sacred portion of my army (i.e. the good part).

But the survivors will perservere and strive to spread nature and wine amongst the blood slaves and liberate them from their oppressors http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

PashaDawg

June 24th, 2005, 08:42 AM

I want some independent media coverage from the region.

jeffr

June 24th, 2005, 10:25 AM

It is as I say, but I'm sure that Ulm and Ryleh have scouts in the region. If they choose to share their knowledge, it would be most welcome http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

CUnknown

June 24th, 2005, 12:55 PM

Centaurs Blitz Pranda!

The biggest battle the world has ever seen! Centaurs everywhere!! Oh, the humanity!

Jagaurs were everywhere, too. But now they're dead. Centaurs are dead too, but not as many! Massive, massive casulties on both sides. The centaurs are clearly the winners, although I agree the white centaurs took over 50% losses, easy.

Jurri

June 24th, 2005, 03:46 PM

A special report of 30 seconds, the investigative programme of the fish people:
/threads/images/Graemlins/Waterdrop.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Waterdrop.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Waterdrop.gif
The horror! Never has this humble fish laid ocular appendages on such a view as was Pranda after the carnage: hundreds of half-jaguar, half-man abominations littering the ground for miles around the Dark Citadel, in unnatural poses and with faces contoured in pain and terror. Forest critters had come upon them to feast on the gruesome remains of the once mighty army of the Crimson Empire; there a rabbit, nibbling on a calf, here a family of mice eagerly devouring the ruptured spleen of a high priest. The more sentient ones, centaurs and the like, were hanging choice carcasses from the branches of the nearby trees (that were in full bloom despite the winter), undoubtedly draining them in order to later preserve them as rations for their long trek through the barren Desert of C'tis and around the Sea of Silence.

Upon witnessing such a sight this modest fish could but wonder what is it that drives the once-peaceful forest folk to such behaviour. Everywhere their dominion touches men die in the hands of once docile forest beings, and blood has replaced wine as the beverage of choice in the f�tes of Pangaea. Is it possible that all this is but a powerplay by Ratte's rivals in the underworld? That another Lord of Hell has ascended to our plane of existence and is in fact aiming to overthrow Ratte as the epitome of evil by guiding innocent satyrs and centaurs to gruesome acts of violence. How does the cowardly Aku, supposedly peer to these powerful beings (yeah, I know it's hard to believe considering the weak posture and the spineless fluttering about), enter the equation? (This small fish would express as his view that in no way, and that in fact Aku isn't even a true Moloch but a bastard begotten with a salamander by some lowly devil.)

...ooh, look, a quarter!
/threads/images/Graemlins/Waterdrop.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Waterdrop.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Waterdrop.gif
(Yes, our reporter is a gold-fish, so sue us...)

PashaDawg

June 24th, 2005, 05:23 PM

Excellent. Thank you. Arco National News can't seem to afford to send reporters to that region of the world.

I will have those reports swiftly forwarded to the Arco Council of Philosophers for their review. His Luminescence would be interested to read them, too, but he is busy laying siege to an Ulm Castle.

Boron

June 26th, 2005, 08:11 AM

Mictlan is still fighting. Though faith is small and fading our brave people still fight the evil pangenean agressors with great valor. May the Rohirrim arrive in time to save us http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

jeffr

June 26th, 2005, 10:20 AM

Hordes from Hell everywhere! Pangean provinces fall to the agressor like dominoes. Mictlan has aligned with the Devil, not the Rohimrin http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

jeffr

June 26th, 2005, 10:29 AM

And those few provinces I managed to raid and hold for a bit are all crap. No gems and no income. Dis C'tis have miasma or something? No wonder Mictlan doesn't bother to take them back.

Boron

June 26th, 2005, 02:43 PM

jeffr said:
And those few provinces I managed to raid and hold for a bit are all crap. No gems and no income. Dis C'tis have miasma or something? No wonder Mictlan doesn't bother to take them back.

Yeah ctis was unfortunately miasma. That hurt me badly. I lost around 50 jaguars or so just from the miasma dominion. Iirc these losses were higher than my losses i suffered in all fights with ctis http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif.
And Mictlan is not interested in gems but in blood http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif.

CUnknown

June 27th, 2005, 04:58 AM

The Great Sorceress of Ulm has been wandering the countryside lately in search of sites of magic power. After a long hike, she becomes a little hungry and stops by a peasant's hut to ask for some food. She says, "I am your Goddess, you may rub my feet and bring me whatever food you happen to have in your home, today is your lucky day!"

The peasant farmer looks at her with a snarl, "I ent gonna give ya my food, now go on, git outta here! Goddess? Humph! I know better'n ta believe in that ****e. Ya got any proof about that, or do ya just want me ta take it on -faith-?"

The Great Sorceress, shocked as she was, stood there for a few minutes before regaining her senses. After incinerating the peasant and returning home, she issues this decree:

"Hear me, nation of Ulm! Do not listen to the Skeptics among you! Those who doubt my divinity will be hanged in the street. Remember always that I am your Goddess! All provincial leaders, it is now your top priority to hunt down and stop all foriegn Skeptics."

Turning to a nearby top official, "Make the arrangements for an immediate peace with the Philosopher's Council. The learning seeping across the border from Arcosephale is more dangerous than a hoard of centaurs...Make sure the border is secure."

Boron

June 28th, 2005, 09:19 AM

Mictlan has given up. We still have one secret weapon of doom but it won't turn the tide anymore http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Envy.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/Sick.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Cold.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/fear.gif.

Well played Jeffr. Your switching to lots of small raid bands was a good move.

jeffr

June 28th, 2005, 12:43 PM

But you still have 3 out of the 5 castles in the NorthWest, including both Ctis' and Tien Chi, with large armies and you have a massive (~350) army at your capital. I don't know how much of those armies are the dreaded Jaguars, though. And you also have taken 7 or 8 of my provinces (and more every turn) with those Hordes from Hell that you keep throwing around !!!

I don't think it's over by any means, but thank you for your kind words http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif As always, you played very well (I remember when you smoked me in my very first MP game. You were Pythium with False Horrors, Quickness and Lightning and I was a toasted Pan). Here, your Jaguars did a number on my White Centaurs. I lost 86 I think in one battle, which really hurt.

You also taught me a trick or two that I hope to put into play, if given the chance http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

PashaDawg

June 28th, 2005, 02:52 PM

No giving up! No giving up! Fight the rotting Pan!

CUnknown

June 29th, 2005, 08:12 AM

I think I need more time with this turn. I'm going to change it to 48-h host now.

Jurri

June 29th, 2005, 01:33 PM

Cool with me. I've been a little confused with the hosting times lately, tell the truth http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

As of the latest count, Pan owns all the watchtowers in the area, plus the Dark Citadel in Pranda. My scout in T'ien C'hi capital got lost in the woods, so I don't know its status... It would seem that Pan owns everything to the West from the North-South river and the Lakes; I think about 50 provinces.

jeffr

June 29th, 2005, 05:27 PM

Whoa, why all the anti-Pan (i.e 'rotten Pan') stuff? The war with Mictlan has been a war of attrition and raiding, not a cakewalk. Many independant provinces still exist in the West because Pan has been constantly at war and doesn't have any forces to spare to take them.

Pan will likely be destroyed by the Ulm/Mictlan alliance fairly quickly and without any significant damage to Ulm.

If you all allow Ulm to take the West in addition to his already strong position, Ulm will more than likely be unstoppable.

The Ulm/Mictlan rear lies open in the East! Take advantage of the open path now or Ulm will turn on you with overwhelming force in the not to distant future !!!

CUnknown

June 30th, 2005, 02:20 PM

I agree with Jeffr.

-If- I was able to conquer most of Pangea with little losses and then turn on the rest of the world, I would be neigh unstoppable. But, Jeffr and I have had only one battle so far (in his dominion) where I was fighting 44 hp white centaurs (because of Gift of Health) and I got absolutely hammered.

So, as soon as I manage to take a province of his and start on my way to unstoppability, I will let you guys know.

Boron

June 30th, 2005, 03:01 PM

Hm at least my moloch seems to work vs. your brutal longbow+white centaur combo http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

Atm the 2 superpowers are Ulm and Ryleh while the other 4 nations are weakened too much by their constant wars.

jeffr

June 30th, 2005, 03:11 PM

I haven't seen the latest turn yet (that's what I get for looking here first and ruining the surprise), but it sounds like good news from CUnknown and bad news from Boron! I went from "yeah" to "oh, crap".

Boron, did you fly your Moloch somewhere and attack me? Was he alone or did he have help? Damn, I knew something bad was going to happen. Damn, damn, damn http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Jurri

June 30th, 2005, 04:36 PM

Hehe, you're gonna love it, jeffr... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif

You do realize, Boron, that me and CU just fought a long, tiring, and ultimately futile war. I'd say, combined with the eternal war with Abysia, I have far more war-turns (I demand double the respect for the turns when I was ganked! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif) than anyone: If that gets me into the superpower-class (replacing Pangaea who has only, what, 4 capitals and 50+ provinces), all the more power to me! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

EDIT: And weren't you ready to throw in the towel against the horrible Pan just a turn ago yourself? Since when am I scarier than him?

Boron

June 30th, 2005, 05:52 PM

Jurri said:
EDIT: And weren't you ready to throw in the towel against the horrible Pan just a turn ago yourself? Since when am I scarier than him?

No offense vs. Ryleh and the fishs http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.
My reasoning is just if i would play ryleh i would have at least 100 clams now probably. If this is true you are definitely the strongest nation now http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif.

CUnknown

June 30th, 2005, 09:54 PM

Boron, I have to protest you calling me and Ryleh "superpowers" when another faction (that shall remain nameless) has like half the freaking map and two powerful globals up. Jeffr is by far the most powerful right now. There's no way I'd be able to beat him by myself, and honestly, I think he might be able to hold us both off, at least for a while.

If you faught that last battle in his dominion you would have lost, even with your god. There's no way he can be invaded seriously until Gift of Health is dispelled, and even then he can put it right back up. He's got three capitals, his gem income is great.

Jeffr must be stopped, then I can worry about Jurri and you guys can worry about me and/or Jurri. However, I'm likely to be in shambles from fighting Jeffr, even if I win. I have to 1) beat Jeffr, not even close to a guarentee. then 2) beat him in good enough shape to hold off the rest of the world. That seems extremely unlikely. In fact, why am I doing this??? I feel like I'm working for Jurri but I don't see my any other real option. Without Boron to help against Jeffr, it would be impossible to beat him.

PashaDawg

June 30th, 2005, 10:32 PM

So, Jeffr:

Why are there suddenly white centaurs within the lovely dominion of His Luminescence, Pasha-Du, the Wise and Noble Shedu of Arco?

?????

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif

Pasha

jeffr

June 30th, 2005, 10:55 PM

Sorry about that, just passing thru http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif I'll be moving on. My other route was blocked by a humongous blood army.

I took my turn, but the server is down.

Well, I was able to repel Ulm's first invasion, although the Earth Attacks were a pain.

Boron's SC Moloch was another matter and reminded me that we are not using Zen's item mod, so the Blood Thorn is still extremely powerful. His fire 9, water 9 Moloch basically destroyed my army all by himself. I couldn't dent him and he looks unstoppable by my current forces, which were tailored for army vs army battles. I'm not optimistic.

CUnknown

July 1st, 2005, 01:12 AM

Server is back up.

PashaDawg

July 1st, 2005, 09:04 AM

Hey Folks:

I am going on a short trip: Late Saturday afternoon - late Monday afternoon. (It's Independence Day weekend here in the USA.)

Any chace we could slow up the quickhost a wee little bit just to make sure I (and others who might be traveling this weekend) don't stale?

Thanks.

Pasha

Jurri

July 1st, 2005, 01:40 PM

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Boron, you show me how you fight Chris and Aku to a stand-still and clam efficiently at the same time, and I'll show you a winner! 100 clams... sheesh, talk about ridiculous.

jeffr: Looks like Ratte wasn't unstoppable at all! Dude, that was a sublime way of taking him down: I never would have thought of using poison, of all things! Just plain awesome!

CUnknown

July 1st, 2005, 02:09 PM

I will slow it to 72 hour host.

jeffr

July 1st, 2005, 03:41 PM

Jurri, do you have eyes everywhere? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I got him, but I still suffered heavy losses and had to retreat from the field, leaving my WatchTower besieged by a bunch of savage Jaguars. And Boron can just raise him again with little effort using his mass of priests. But it is better without Ratte-face around for a turn or two at least http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Does anyone know off-hand if clams and the other gem hoarding items were increased in cost or paths in Zen's item mod? I heard he got rid of the Blood Thorn as a useful weapon and made the Wraith Sword a situational weapon in an attempt to encourage the use of a variety of weapons. Variety is good.

I know I tried a little variety by summoning some Horned Serpents in the early game. Didn't work particularly well, but maybe I didn't use them in the right situation. I think CUnknown has some Iron Pigs with him. I'll have to look those up.

Aku

July 1st, 2005, 04:15 PM

all hoarding items got increased in item mod

clams are 2s2w so 10w10s gem cost

fetish i think is 2n2f

blood stone is 4b1e

PashaDawg

July 1st, 2005, 06:47 PM

CUnknown said:
I will slow it to 72 hour host.

Thanks!

CUnknown

July 1st, 2005, 07:38 PM

"...and made the Wraith Sword a situational weapon..."

This is an understatement. I would say: "...he got rid of the Blood Thorn as a weapon and got rid of Wraith and Hell Swords as useful weapons." -10 damage does not a weapon make, in my book. Or at least a useful weapon.

Aku

July 1st, 2005, 07:45 PM

There are strength buffing weapons and the heroic ability heroic strength. Also they will still work against low prot troops without strength buffing items.

Boron

July 1st, 2005, 08:59 PM

I just wanted to do my turn but the server seems down.

CUnknown

July 1st, 2005, 10:02 PM

Server is back up!

Aku-- No matter what strength, I think someone with a sword of sharpness will be more cost effective than with a Wraithsword under Zen's item mod. Definitely with a real weapon, like a Flambeau, Fire Brand, etc.

Aku

July 1st, 2005, 11:09 PM

I love zens mods including the item mod. It gives variety to weapons instead of everyone using a blood thorn.

jeffr

July 2nd, 2005, 01:59 AM

Yeah, I agree. Anything that encourages something different than the standard loadouts is Ok with me. If the Wraith and Hell Swords suffer because of it, so be it.

But then again, I never really liked the power that the Life/Fatigue draining weapons gave SCs, so that's probably why I don't care that they've been nerfed so much in the item mod.

jeffr

July 2nd, 2005, 02:02 AM

Oh, and what are the odds that 3 successive Earth Attacks will target the same commander in a province? I had three commanders, I think, in the proince and one guy got hit three times in row, with the last attack doing the job. Damn.

Boron

July 2nd, 2005, 08:19 AM

Was nasty how you killed my Moloch Jeffr http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif.
Seems as if the attacker is always in the disadvantage since he gets swarmed by troops and the enemy SCs then easily kill him. In a 1on1 i am almost 100% sure your Moloch wouldn't have had a chance but in our fight my stupid moloch just attacked your longbows while your Moloch could land blow after blow http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/fear.gif.
Well new try new luck http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif.

I am almost sure now though that jurri will win the game. I am basically dead, Aku is basically dead, you are kinda weakened. Chris is still in good shape but not good enough to win the game.
Invisible swarm has been one of my most exciting server mp games http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

Jurri

July 3rd, 2005, 02:09 PM

Dude, it's not over till it's over! You and Aku are far from dead, anything can happen.

(Also, please share the invincible strategy that assures my victory! I sure could use one! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)

About attacking versus defending, in my opinion that's not as straight-forward as that. Sometimes it makes very great sense to be the attacker, either in the magic phase (to hit before the reinforcements arrive) or otherwise. Or if you mean tactically: if you have fast enough troops and a full length script on your guy there should be no problem, as your troops will engage the enemy before your SC attacks. Another option is to use a non-flying guy, or a storm, to bolster the flanks of your SC. Lots of possible tactics!

PashaDawg

July 5th, 2005, 12:48 AM

New turn's up!

jeffr

July 5th, 2005, 06:23 PM

New turn is up !

Chris has taken the fort at Man and is besieging Machaka and another fort.

Chris destroyed one of my armies by brilliantly letting his assassinating spy be killed, giving my commander the Fenris Pelt in the process. My commander then berserked in the battle later in the turn and was promptly killed. He then destroyed two other forces via the more traditional Ghost Riders.

Not to mention that my Globals were dispelled. So, not a good day for the good guys http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

CUnknown

July 6th, 2005, 12:24 PM

Hehe, yes having my assassin be killed was the plan all along. I iz so smrt.

Aku

July 6th, 2005, 01:42 PM

new turn!

Jurri

July 7th, 2005, 08:32 AM

A new turn.

CUnknown

July 7th, 2005, 03:08 PM

Ulm and Pangea are locked in a bitter struggle and the rumors of which are circulating around the world.

One Capital is nearly abandoned, all the garrisons emptied. In the forest home of Pangea, unruly satyrs and centaurs riot in the streets, openly defying the rule of their Moloch Overlord, a False god. They refuse to work, and are preventing the training of new troops, even the fearsome White Centaur cadets are left without arms, supplies and instruction. Some say the people of Pangea have seen an omen in the heavens, a sign of great significance, and they no longer believe their cruel master can lead them to victory. Others say it is simply the work of Ulmish spies, sowing the seeds of discord. Whatever the reason, all agree that these omens signal the time of the evil Ger is coming to an end.

However, he is not going down without a fight. Even now in the Great Citadel of Ulm, a shining black jewel in the black forest, huge monstrous tree-beings are laying seige to the castle, and causing near-panic amongst the populace. With them have come a vast army of centaurs intent on tearing down the fortress brick by brick. The Great Commander of Ulm instructs his Guardians to stand firm with the knowledge that the forest creatures have not brought any siege equipment with them, and they cannot break the walls. Still, exit from the castle is now impossible with two gigantic Tree Lords blocking the gate. The soldiers fear they may have to resort to eating their pets to survive the seemingly eternal seige that lies ahead.

jeffr

July 7th, 2005, 07:05 PM

Hey, my trees should be able to rip down walls, shouldn't they? That happened during the Lord of the Rings.

Am I at least starving the metal heads or doing something the least bit harmful? That move was sort of a wing and a prayer kind of thing. I thought that I would at least be able to harm the castle a little bit. Crap http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

PashaDawg

July 7th, 2005, 09:33 PM

New turn is up!

Jurri

July 8th, 2005, 05:23 PM

A new turn.

Aku

July 8th, 2005, 06:30 PM

Jurri you are not going to like your turn when you watch it lol.

I may be dying but I probably pissed you off this turn on what I killed.

Jurri

July 8th, 2005, 06:52 PM

Notice the topic of the previous post http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

...damn you, you craven bastich!

EDIT: Oh, well, at least I learned something: I really don't have a clue! I mean, I have absolutely no accurate perception on how things relate to each other: general level, sure, but just how many foul spawn do you need to counter a bunch of devils? No idea. At all. Enjoy it while you can, you miserable things; When I ascend I shall make the world have deterministic and simple rules that will prevent gits like me from fouling up a good thing!

jeffr

July 8th, 2005, 07:15 PM

Well, that about does it for me. Chris has destroyed my main army and taken most of my lands. The defeat was total with no loss to Chris. Boron is taking the rest of my undefended lands in the North.

I'll keep on until I'm dead, but there isn't much I can do. I guess I'll try and buy some time, so that everyone has a better chance against the Ulm/Mictlan alliance. But, for all I know, perhaps R'leh, Arco and Abysia are already very strong. Man, this game is humbling http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I thought I was pretty succesfull until Chris and Boron double teamed me and I actually felt pretty good about the situation before their alliance. Oh, how wrong I was!

In hindsight, after seeing what Chris did to me, I guess I didn't have much of a chance, even if he had waited until I had finished Mictlan (assuming I could have, that is).

But, you never know. If I gone against Ulm one on one and had had my main force near Ulm instead of in the North fighting Mictlan, maybe it would have gone better. Maybe I would have been able to push him back fort by fort and I wouldn't have had to try to teleport and attack him at his capital.

A lot of maybes. The certainty is that Chris has wiped the floor with me. Very well played, Chris, both diplomatically and strategically/tactically http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Looking back on it, I'm trying to think what I should have done differently (besides radically altering my strategy; perhaps avoiding wars and not appearing too powerful, but that's no fun http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif).

I defeated a few of Ulm's inital armies, but gave way before his main army because I wanted to redeploy my main army from the North first. This took a couple of turns and allowed Chris access to my lands. Chris then avoided battle against my main force, which surprised me (I thought he would go for my capital), and went south. He and Boron had probaby agreed to a North/South split.

Time wasn't on my side. Chris's spies were killing my production (maybe I should have patrolled more but I had suffered heavy losses against Boron's Jaguars and Moloch), his assassins were killing my soft targets and his Ghost Riders took out any small armies that I sent against him.

I couldn't just defend or I would certainly be engulfed between Chris and Boron, so I tried to be aggressive in attacking the Ulm capital. I didn't know that I wouldn't be able to harm the walls and I certainly didn't know the forces he had waiting for me. I thought his main army was in the south.

One thing that surpised me was that he survived casting Ghost Riders into a Dome of Flaming Death. I had never cast that before. It sounded lethal, but it turns out it didn't do squat (maybe he had the foresight to be fire resistant). I was pyched that I had guessed the correct province he would cast into, but it was all for naught.

Ah well, it was fun a very fun game while it lasted. Good game guys http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Aku

July 8th, 2005, 07:28 PM

Well the game is going to be won by either Chris or Jurri.

Pasha and Jurri are carving up my land and I am down to 4 provinces =(. So you will at least outlive me Jeffr.

Jurri

July 8th, 2005, 07:48 PM

Dudes, it ain't over yet! Heck I recently lost almost a third of my provinces to Aku and Chris and look at me now: I'm supposedly the runner-up! If it were indeed down to me and Chris, we might as well quit already, since I can't for the life of me see how I could beat him as things stand. (Not that I would quit because of that, really. That's only rhetorical license! Fight to the finish!) Also, if no one else has a chance, what are they to do? Is Boron the kingmaker, or what?

Cainehill

July 8th, 2005, 07:52 PM

jeffr said:
I thought I was pretty succesfull until Chris and Boron double teamed me and I actually felt pretty good about the situation before their alliance. Oh, how wrong I was!

Heh. Never a good idea to become the obvious front-runner : makes it just too likely that a bunch of others will gang up on you. Even happens without any diplomacy involved, just people deciding it's a good time to bite their own chunk off.

Aku

July 8th, 2005, 07:53 PM

Yeah dont give up!

I am down to 4 provinces and I am fighting to the bitter end and even still I am defending modestly well.

CUnknown

July 8th, 2005, 07:55 PM

Jeffr, dude, you are a bad-*** Pangea player and you are definitely overdue for a victory in one of these games!

About the army that broke the seige: what was preventing you from breaking in were the guardians and the wolves I had summoned with the Soulstone. But, a chunk of the strength of my attack came just a turn before I broke seige. I cast 'legion of wights', summoned more fire snakes, and built that Sword of Aurgermer (I love that thing! It is underrated as a magic item, I think) the turn before I broke seige. A lot of the items my commanders used in that battle came from my main army (love the insta-teleport through labs in this game), and they're going right back there, heh. So, it's not like I had this huge force waiting at my capital for you, most of it was assembled just for that battle. I was fortunate to have my main army on a lab the turn I needed them there. Oh, well, the huge force of smiths has been there the whole game, of course.

One on one (if Boron had stayed out of it, and let's say Jurri didn't attack me either), you would have beat me, definitely. Or at least I couldn't have attacked you, and I imagine your raids would have taken me down eventually. Your 'Gift of Health'ed centaurs are just phenomenally powerful. That is why my main army avoided yours..even if I had won, I would have been decimated. I figured that out when you slaughtered some groups I sent in the beginning.

It's hard being double-teamed. I don't think really anyone can manage it. Well, Jurri did in this game, but being a water power helps because there's only so many places we can attack.

I guess if there is a problem with your strategy, Jeffr, it's that you seem monstrously incredibly powerful and scary, heh. I freaked that you were going to roll over Boron, so I wanted to make peace with Jurri. Jurri's strategy makes him seem less scary than yours does, although you're probably equally powerful.

What was this about the Dome of Flaming Death? Was it supposed to have nuked a mage of mine? I never got a message that it was triggered.. Is there a bug with that spell in one of these mods, maybe?

Anyway, great game, Jeffr! If Boron hadn't been at war with you too, I bet you would have beaten me, or at most I would have been able to fight you to a standstill.

p.s.

One more thing I would like to note is that I believe the elemental summoning spells to have been beefed up a little too much in Zen's spell mod. I love them, but I can't help but think they're too good. For 2 gems, my lvl 2 earth-casting smiths can 'summon earthpower' then cast 'living earth' to summon 4 elementals! I think each one can do that twice per battle, if you give them maybe 4-6 gems each. That's 8 elementals! Maybe it should be like: lesser elemental is 100 fatigue, normal elemental is 150, living earth is 200 or something. Being all at 100 fatigue is really probably too good.

Jurri

July 8th, 2005, 08:19 PM

CUnknown said:
and built that Sword of Aurgermer (I love that thing! It is underrated as a magic item, I think)

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif It's official, this guy has the clams hoarded! He's dispelling the globals faster than the eye can see and forging 80 pearl artifacts (guess it's 40 with his superhammer, but still)!

It's a great item, I would have liked to make it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/Sick.gif Wish I had the pearls. Listening to the proceedings I certainly understand that I really should clam waaay more myself... I'm not sure how my strategy would adapt to that, though.

Aku

July 8th, 2005, 08:27 PM

Well with zens item mod it nerfs clams a bit with it being changed from 2w to 2w2s.

Cainehill

July 8th, 2005, 09:16 PM

CUnknown said:
One more thing I would like to note is that I believe the elemental summoning spells to have been beefed up a little too much in Zen's spell mod. I love them, but I can't help but think they're too good. For 2 gems, my lvl 2 earth-casting smiths can 'summon earthpower' then cast 'living earth' to summon 4 elementals! I think each one can do that twice per battle, if you give them maybe 4-6 gems each. That's 8 elementals! Maybe it should be like: lesser elemental is 100 fatigue, normal elemental is 150, living earth is 200 or something. Being all at 100 fatigue is really probably too good.

Problem is the gem cost is hardwired to the fatigue; prior to Zen's mods, hardly anyone ever summoned the elementals in battle because of the gem cost. On the other paw, one version he had the elementals costing zero gems! Can't remember who it was, but someone immediately realized that taking 10 in an elemental path meant you could essentially spam elementals forever (especially since the AI favors summoning even when it shouldn't).

Boron

July 8th, 2005, 09:42 PM

You have done very well again Jeffr. Your Pan is always amazing. Reminds me on the cradle of zen game we played where i was pythium and you pan with your e9n9 medusa.

You were leading every graph in that game too and man persuaded me into attacking you which i did since i wanted to try out something else than clamming in that game.
You put up such a good fight then that i suffered so much attrition that nasty man could kill me then. We weakened each other too much.

This game has gone similiar. You have almost wiped out me. Fortunately Jurri gave me the idea with an SC then and out of a sudden i reminded my Moloch. This helped quite a bit but was not sufficient. You would have still killed me in a 1on1.
Chris couldn't let that happen because he would have been the next of your targets.

You did put up a very good fight again in this game and kept it interesting. It is one of the fiercest and most exciting games i have played so far.
As you said yourself your only fault was maybe that you looked too strong. That wouldn't be problematic but me + Chris could develop a bit too and while alone to weak to stop you i stalled you long enough for your downfall.

It was like with LotR. You were progressing well but my last forts did hold out long enough like Minas Tirith and then finally Chris saved me like the brave Rohirrims + the Ghosts in LotR.

You can maybe still have lots of impact on the game though both for you and me the future turns are not so fun anymore since we have the ungrateful role of minor powers now who can maybe be kingmakers but maybe make no difference anymore at all.

jeffr

July 9th, 2005, 07:39 AM

Hmmm, perhaps in the next game I will pursue a more peace loving game so that everyone does not feel the need to destroy me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif It seems that the good players can mask their strength.

But in this game, I only started the first war against IronHawk's Man. I was attacked first by both Machaka and Boron, so I'm not sure what I could have done differently there. Perhaps offer peace instead of seeking to wipe them out.

Chris - I did cast a Dome of Flaming Death, and the messages said that two spellcasters (that had cast Ghost Riders) were struck by the fire blast but survived. It would have been a good counter (and maybe a nasty surprise http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif) if the spell worked a little bit better.

Zen's item mod increases the cost of hoarding items? I'm all for that. Anything that discourages inaction is a plus in my book. From what I've seen, I like these Zen's mods.

One possible bug is that I think I read that the Hama Dryads are supposed to have Enslave Mind, but when I summoned a few, they had Steal Strength instead. Or is it a spell that doesn't show up on their unit description? They didn't seem to cast it but maybe they routed too quickly.

Now, how do I stop this tactic of casting Ghost Riders and then taking the province with a scout or spy? My initial strategy of just killing the Ghost Rider casting enemy before he could do much damage didn't work very well http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Also, Chris mentioned the Soul Stone or something like that. Does this give you free wolves outside of combat?

Boron

July 9th, 2005, 08:25 AM

Jeffr both me and Machaka attacked you because Ironhawk told us how scary you are.
Machaka attacked you because he tried to help Man and i attacked you because i knew your playstyle and assumed that if i do not attack you you will attack me soon anyways. I thought that my jaguar warriors are stronger http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/fear.gif.

Regarding the soul stone: It gives you 1 free summoning of call of the wilds per turn.

According the Ghost riders: They are a cheesy strat. Zen made them D6 to cast (Vanilla D4) so they are not as frequent anymore but still annoying. In vanilla i always summoned a bunch of demiliches just for the purpose of Ghost Rider Summoning and as "Landsturm".
Some kind of SCs beat the ghost riders and so do very large and well composed armies. But Ghost Riders are a problem since they are so cost effective. Even if your Army is huge and basically untouchable some Ghost Riders cast upon them can force this army to spend all their gems and thus soften it up for the next combat. It is almost impossible though to do several such Armies that cannot be damaged by Ghost Riders. They are just a great great tool.
With Ashen Angel + Ghost Rider attacks you can soften up almost any Army/SC. But they are fairly late spells so they deserve to be powerful.

Jurri

July 9th, 2005, 08:35 AM

The soul stone allows you to cast call of the wild once a turn for free. In combat it gives you a bunch of wolves each turn.

According to the spellmod, tha hama dryad has weapon id 284, which is steal strength. Yeah, they suck.

The usual tactics against ghost riders I've seen/used include equipping a high penetration mage casting a spell that targets the wraith lords (like Charm) as the riders will dissolve if the leaders die, getting a bunch of priests casting banishment with some high protection troops to shield them, fielding SCs that can off the riders without too much trouble. (Luck and etherealness and prot of 20+, preferably combined with fireshield, in the way of an example.) Another option, especially with stealthy armies, is to sneak every other turn, which prevents the Ghost Riders from ever catching them. Then use said army to take back the ridered provinces; in theory two such groups can keep a province from enemy hands. (Attack the province on alternating turns.) Anything that can off a scout/spy is enough, so maybe army is a bit strong a word.

In this case it's probably a waste of time to try to target the casters, as they are likely lamia queens or wraith lords or demiliches; the latter are immortal and the lamias are pretty buff. Also, a prudent ghost riderer twiceborns any living mage to prevent any mishaps, especially with the increased level-demand of the mod.

Castling will also reduce the damage done; it's not an option for you with your huge castle, though http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif You should really try a game sometime with a 40 admin castle: It costs 300g and 2 turns less to build and offers almost the same level of resources and gold and supplies.

There's little you can do to prevent/survive a ganking, aside from aggressive diplomacy. It really doesn't matter who you play against or how: it's always preferable to attack an opponent with superior force, so weaker opponents will band up to gain an advantage. If you are the strongest there is, there's no single nation left with enough force to challenge you alone; thus you'll be ganged on, unless you can do the diplomacy to prevent it. Ask Chris how he does it: it looks like he's first convinced Aku that I am the greatest threat, and now he's convinced Boron of the same thing, while to me it's obvious he himself has more provinces and magical gem income and armies than anyone else. Even if my globals stay up.

This will turn ugly, with players like Boron around... Either he's a master schemer trying to get a benefit from driving me to a corner, or just plain clueless and misinformed.

Jurri

July 10th, 2005, 11:19 AM

Hey guys, I might have slight trouble harnessing enough computer-time to do a turn even every other day for the next two weeks. So could we switch to, say, 72h quickhost for the time being so I don't need to rush things (cuz where's the fun in that?). Sorry for the trouble and the delay, I will try and overcome the obstacles to not hold up the game untowardly much. Thanks in advance!

CUnknown

July 10th, 2005, 12:37 PM

Sure.

PashaDawg

July 10th, 2005, 03:34 PM

That would be great for me, too. I am going to be lounging by a lake for 5 days starting Saturday. A 72h quickhost would prevent my substitute from needing to play too many turns.

CUnknown

July 11th, 2005, 10:39 PM

I had to restart the server. The hosting time says 72-hours right now, but I'm going to host tomorrow sometime in the evening (maybe 10pm or something?) to keep it on track.

Jurri

July 12th, 2005, 12:05 PM

Not to worry, I'm well aware of the lag I'm causing. A new turn is in, and I intend to do the new one tomorrow at the latest.

I wouldn't object to a pause when Pasha's away, either, if he'd so prefer: at least to me this is so much fun that I wouldn't want to miss a turn! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

PashaDawg

July 12th, 2005, 11:43 PM

If you guys are willing to pause while I am away (from Saturday through Wednesday), it would be nice.

However, I can also get a substitute (I just asked Panther; I promised him that he would have lot's of flying horseys to play with, but he has not responded yet).

If we have it at 72 QH, very few turns would go by while I was away.

CUnknown

July 13th, 2005, 02:18 PM

I wouldn't mind pausing, Pasha. But, if you do get a sub, on 72-h quickhost he'll only have to play like 1 turn.

PashaDawg

July 13th, 2005, 08:44 PM

Panther has agreed to sub. He will hold the reigns of the Flying Horseys of Arco while I am away. Hopefully, the Council of Philosophers will not drown him with their endless debate about the evil of AKU's devil army.

Jurri

July 15th, 2005, 08:53 AM

A new turn.

Aku

July 15th, 2005, 03:05 PM

And in other news...Pasha is trying to dom kill me with his skeptics...

PashaDawg

July 15th, 2005, 08:09 PM

It's because the Council of Philosophers insisted. I had no choice.

jeffr

July 16th, 2005, 12:03 AM

Damn, my Moloch with an MR of 25 got blinded on the (I think) first shot. She was also cursed (nice move, by the way). Does the curse make it harder to resist spells or was I just unlucky?

Also, if a unit is using an item to cast spells (say, a fire scepter - many of them; how many gems do you have?), does the unit get spell fatigue? I ask because it didn't look like it, although relief was being cast a lot (not by me, of course).

A blind cursed Moloch == a dead Moloch with lots of afflictions == Chris wins again. On the plus side, I killed an assassin and now have some goodies. Woo hoo !!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

CUnknown

July 16th, 2005, 01:46 PM

I think you just got insanely unlucky. I'm not absolutely positive, if being cursed had anything to do with it or not, though.

About using an item to cast spells, I think you do still get fatigue, but definitely not as much as normal. I think you ignore the spell fatigue and just take your encumbrance fatigue. I'm not positive about this, either.

How many gems do I have? I can't say! But, remember, I am Ulm, and my smiths can make those scepters for 2 fire each.

Boron

July 16th, 2005, 02:02 PM

Just Jurri left.

The Panther

July 16th, 2005, 02:34 PM

When you use an item spell, you get 5 fatigue no matter the spell. Which means you can cast it nearly indefinitely even without relief.

Is this game on QH?

Boron

July 16th, 2005, 10:34 PM

The Panther said:
When you use an item spell, you get 5 fatigue no matter the spell. Which means you can cast it nearly indefinitely even without relief.

Is this always true?
Or do you get 0 fatigue if you use a 0 enc chassis ?

The Panther

July 16th, 2005, 11:50 PM

I believe you always get 5 fatigue no matter what. It is completely independant of the chassis or the spell. I could be wrong, of course...

Jurri

July 17th, 2005, 08:01 AM

A new turn!

Panther's right: you'll get 5 fatigue per pop, no matter your encumberance or other factors. Makes Jade Armor a good choice!

The game is on QH.

The Panther

July 19th, 2005, 08:13 PM

The server is down.

YellowCactus

July 19th, 2005, 08:25 PM

Must be storming in Georgia!
-yc

The Panther

July 20th, 2005, 12:07 AM

New turn is up!

I managed to connect and my turn was uploaded. The next turn will go back to the Dawg, who returns from his vacation on the 'morrow.

Good luck all.

Edit - Darn and OOPS! While I was examining the results of the turn, I accidently hit end of turn and it uploaded a move that consisted of exactly NOTHING. Please do not allow the next turn to host until Pasha reports that he uploaded a proper turn. Sorry...

This is actually why I greatly prefer PBEM...

CUnknown

July 20th, 2005, 03:34 AM

I took off quick host until Pasha says he's done his turn.

PashaDawg

July 20th, 2005, 09:12 PM

I have returned! Thank you to Panther for filling in while I was away!

PashaDawg

July 21st, 2005, 11:36 PM

/threads/images/Graemlins/Lightning.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Lightning.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Lightning.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Lightning.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Lightning.gif Wicked Devilry! /threads/images/Graemlins/Lightning.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Lightning.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Lightning.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Lightning.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Lightning.gif

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif

Once again, the Wicked AKU has disclosed his depraved devilry for all civilized beings to see by a vicious surprise attack on the peaceful Arco troops as they conducted a customary peace keeping mission near the Abysian capitol province.

The cruelty exhibited by AKU and his minions in this shocking deed of fiendishness is easily measured by the uncountable criminal acts performed by the aforesaid AKU, et seq. At the top of the list is that AKU not only singed His Luminescence�s fur coat, but he had the nerve to actually KILL the Shedu of Arco. And, to add to that, he then proceeded to slaughter many of his Luminescence�s prized Flying Horseys!

These acts will not go unpunished, and AKU is hereby warned to sleep with one eye open at all times!

Curse you, AKU! No doubt you will be the subject of many, many, many resolutions and declarative statements to be passed by the Arco Council of Philosophers in the next coming months.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif

Aku

July 22nd, 2005, 12:08 AM

All I am going to say is that it felt so good killing that false god and so so many super commanders including your creature of the maze hero. And ah man all those veteran wind riders of the Ulm war that were all 4 star xp lmfao. It felt good destroying that entire army with hardly any casualties.

PashaDawg

July 22nd, 2005, 12:24 AM

I bet! But, watch out! That was just a clever Arco trick to lull you into a false sense of grandeur. /threads/images/Graemlins/PointRight.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/PointRight.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/PointRight.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/carrot.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Boron

July 22nd, 2005, 06:08 PM

PashaDawg said:
I bet! But, watch out! That was just a clever Arco trick to lull you into a false sense of grandeur. /threads/images/Graemlins/PointRight.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/PointRight.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/PointRight.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/carrot.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

You weren't the only one who lost his god.
Mictlan's fragile empire is finally broken.

The Panther

July 22nd, 2005, 07:51 PM

Aku said:
It felt good destroying that entire army with hardly any casualties.

I must wonder how losing 35 of 37 devils can be called 'hardly any casualties'. You should have said 'losing nearly all my priceless, irreplacable devils', which would be a far more accurate summary. Other than the loss of the well-outfitted commanders, it was an excellent trade for Pasha, for he still has about 2 dozen fliers left. But the loss of all those nice artifacts will hurt Pasha dearly.

It was a fine battle, however, and I enjoyed watching it. I think that the teeth of the Abysian resistance is now broken with the loss of so many devils. That is, unless you have at least 5 soul contracts plus Boron is feeding you blood slaves.

It was just too bad that Pasha didn't move in the ground troops and slaughter that attack per my orginal plan. That was my fault, because I forgot to mention that wee detail to him when I turned the nation back over to him. It is pretty darn hard to keep track of what you are doing when trading back and forth between subs.

Very nice counterattack, Aku, and well executed.

PashaDawg

July 23rd, 2005, 04:37 PM

C'est la vie! I should have anticipated a heartless counterattack from the sneaky and dastardly AKU!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

Aku

July 23rd, 2005, 05:55 PM

Well Panther I had to do something with my devils and I am summoning more. I have so much patrolling going on I can set taxes to 200% and several blood hunters and keep unrest at 0 lol. Also it is better they died killing the evil Shedu than not being used at all because you ****ers are DOMINION KILLING ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My poor devils and impish friends wont even get the joys of death in combat because you choose to cowardly kill my dominion instead of meeting on the battlefield.

All I have to say is...COWARDS!!!

PashaDawg

July 23rd, 2005, 06:14 PM

Not cowards... pragmatists. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

The Panther

July 23rd, 2005, 09:57 PM

I must admit that I love a dominion killing strategy. That is Dominions at its very best! It is so darn hard to accomplish against a human player, though.

Boron

July 24th, 2005, 08:10 AM

The Panther said:
I must admit that I love a dominion killing strategy. That is Dominions at its very best! It is so darn hard to accomplish against a human player, though.

Take Ermor with dom 10 and spam temples and raid a bit and voila, mission accomplished http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

Jurri

July 24th, 2005, 11:41 AM

A new turn!

Dom-killing is great fun; it's not easy though, even with Ermor. (Especially with Ermor, really, since everyone starts building priests like mad when they catch a glimpse of the nation http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif)

PashaDawg

July 27th, 2005, 07:58 AM

If we could keep the long quickhost through the weekend, I would appreciate it. I have to leave for a conference on Thursday - Saturday.

I will be getting a substitute, but it would be helpful if there were not too many turns while I am away. (Panther is agreeable, but he would not be able to play a turn on Saturday.)

CUnknown

July 27th, 2005, 12:24 PM

Yep, that is cool. Keeping the long quickhost.

CUnknown

July 27th, 2005, 06:33 PM

What turn are we on, guys? 70?

I've never played a game this long before, except in single player.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

PashaDawg

July 27th, 2005, 11:51 PM

Thanks.

Jurri

July 28th, 2005, 11:31 AM

Turn 72 is ready! What's remarkable is that even though this is one long game there hasn't been a dull turn yet.

CUnknown

July 30th, 2005, 06:26 AM

So, what's the correct response to that god-awful (I mean false-god-awful) spell Jurri cast? I see three options:

1) stop casting anything and rely on national troops and the gem-troops I have on the field now.

2) save all my astral gems in an attempt to dispel it (then watch it come up again next turn?)

3) totally ignore it?

I guess I could combine 1) and 2), but that seems to give the spell maybe more credit than it deserves. Is it really that devastating?

I could do 3), but I'm afraid that is the dumb-*** way to go. How can I win if Jurri uses 1/2 my gems as well as all his?

Thoughts? Opinions? I can't let Jurri win another one of my games. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Boron

July 30th, 2005, 07:24 AM

Jurri probably wins when you can't dispel the arcane nexus.
Together with his clams this is devastating.
Even if he clammed only moderately he can do so now.

Without item mod Ryleh is too easy to abuse as Jurri has shown us.

The Panther

July 30th, 2005, 12:42 PM

If he has clams, it is essentially impossible to dispel the Nexus. You can assume he put it up with a level 10+ astral mage with 999 pearls. You can dispel it by doing the same, but he will pile up hundreds and hundreds of pearls from the Nexus before you can get enough for the dispel. Which means he just casts it again within a turn or two. And if he has an enchantment site, it is likely not possible to dispel or overwrite without a lot of luck.

If you have not nerfed clams and spells, then the Nexus + Wish is basically a game winner in the hands of a good player like Jurri.

The only real strategy is for everybody in the game to quit casting spells, convert everything to pearls and give them all to somebody who has a high level astral mage. If you have an enchantment site, you can go for an overwrite. Otherwise, you will have to dispel to make sure it is eliminated. Without casting your own spells to stop feeding him pearls, it will take many turns for him to pile up 999 pearls again just from clams and other natural income.

In a large multiplayer game, clams are the most unbalanced item in the game. Norfleet was the first player to discover this, and I think he was winning games doing that long before he started to cheat.

CUnknown

July 30th, 2005, 03:02 PM

Sorry, I just don't agree with the idea that clams are overpowered (except on very large maps). Jurri hasn't abused anything except for the lobo guard. What is all this defeatist attitude? Pasha, I assume you're going to fight Jurri now, or stay out of the coming war, right? Fighting me is just handing the game to Jurri.

There is no way he cast that spell with 999 pearls. Not at the rate he's been teleporting -golems- around and mind hunting, etc. I'm guessing something around 400 or so pearls. And in any case, it will take a while before he even breaks even on this investment, so perhaps this is all much ado about nothing.

I've said it before, but I just have to say it again: Zen's item mod makes me want to puke. I will never play with it in one of my games. If Jurri is indeed winning this game, he's winning because of superior skill (and perhaps overly cheap lobo guard, but mostly skill), not because of clams! I could have taken him out earlier in the game.. I see now that perhaps I should have. I thought that Jeffr was a huge threat, and you know what...he was! I had to pick one threat to double on at that point, maybe I picked wrong? Who can tell.

This game is not over! I don't care what your gem income is, if you can't control the map, you're going to lose. We're going to see how good Jurri's armies are. Obviously, all he has to do is slow me down, and he'll win. With my main forces deep in Pangea and out of position, perhaps he's got enough time anyway. If that's true, I really think the Council of Philosophers should urge Pasha to attack him!

Cainehill

July 30th, 2005, 04:00 PM

Hmm. I'm curious just what's so sickening about the item mod? Making lifedraining weapons less common is a majorly good thing about it, imo; likewise making staff of storms, etc, harder to attain.

Jurri

July 30th, 2005, 04:06 PM

Nexus isn't a game-winner, certainly. It will only yield 1/4 or 1/8 (can't remember) of used gems (not slaves or pearls of your own) in pearls, so I would assume you and Boron have possibly even more astral income combined than I, with your clammy attitude. At least if Boron plays like he speaks, and it's not him who's dispelling Pangaea's enchantments.

Without Wish it's not quite as easy to turn pearls into useful things, so Panther's concerns are invalid to a point. I wouldn't necessarily agree with his assesment even in unmodded, but that's another discussion... My take on Nexus has sometimes been ignoring it and hunting down the schmoe that cast it, but I haven't seen a high-astral nation cast it before (figure that), so it's not necessarily the god or hero or ether lord who cast it. This small a game, I would possibly even ignore it if I wasn't an Astral nation.

All in all, I still think Chris has the strongest position, since Boron is completely and utterly devoted to helping him win. Indeed, I couldn't believe my eyes when he said he declares war on me! Without it, I would be happily destroying myself against Chris, and Boron would be the one eating up jeffr's remains, and in a very strong position against the one who would emerge victorious. He's a great strategic asset to Chris if used wisely, and Ulm still has the most lands and hence the greatest gem and monetary income, besides which I'm a total apprentice compared to Chris when it comes to building and destroying invincible armies. I'm expecting one kick-*** endgame if I can get Boron out of the picture by the time Chris is content with the state of Pangaea! Especially if Pasha compensates for Boron, and sides with me against the Evil Empire.

There's always something to be abused, so I wouldn't worry about it too much: that's one thing that's so fun with all these mods flying around, that you get to break a new toy every time! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

On another note, weather conditions have prevented me access to my dominions-computer all day, so could you please extend the deadline a few hours? (I should get to it on time, but I can't quite remember when the deadline was.) Pretty please? I hate to be a pain like this all the time, but some vacation this turned out to be: Instead of languishing in the sun and playing dominions all day I've been doing all sorts of odd jobs up here in the country. Fun, certainly, but eating up on computer-time! I guess I should get a sub, but this is too much fun and I've been managing a ~48h cycle so far. And I should have much more free time starting Tuesday.

CUnknown

July 30th, 2005, 05:52 PM

"Nexus isn't a game-winner"

"All in all, I still think Chris has the strongest position"

That spell can definitely be a game winner. As long as it stays up, you've certainly got the strongest position because of your massive gem income (easily twice or three times mine, I believe--it will probably give you around 100 pearls a turn, right?).

"and Ulm still has the most lands and hence the greatest gem and monetary income,"

Yes, I may have the most provinces, but Pangea's provinces were all set to 200% tax forever, and aren't worth much. They are also fairly gem-poor. And with your growth-3 scale, Jurri, your capital is worth around 500 gold/turn. You have a massively higher income (both gold and gems) than I do.

"Especially if Pasha compensates for Boron, and sides with me against the Evil Empire."

If Pasha attacks me, the game is basically over. Everyone must join against Ryleh or else he will conquer the world! Pasha, at least remain neutral, please think about that. If you attack me, Jurri then gets the time he needs to put his amazing gem income to use.

Pasha, if you were helping me, we may still have a chance to beat Jurri.

CUnknown

July 30th, 2005, 05:55 PM

Oh, you have like 30 hours from now (~5pm eastern time on saturday), Jurri. I may have restarted my computer, so the deadline re-set.

Jurri

July 31st, 2005, 08:48 AM

Thank you! ...although it looks like jeffr hasn't yet done his turn, so no new turn just yet.

You forget that you have over 70 provinces and I under 40. (Notice how I count Boron's provinces as yours.) I have a hard time believing that even with the Nexus I would have even close to the gem income those provinces must certainly yield. Also, it's more than likely that you and Boron have more clams combined than I.

Gold income, well, my growth scale hardly doubles my gold income, so with you having so much more provinces and way better earth/fire gem income there should be no doubt that your income is better. Also, my mages cost twice that of yours, so after upkeep the difference might be even greater. (I wager I have three lobos for every mortal chump you have http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif)

Pasha may or may not be a king-maker, but even if he sides with me the game is very far from over - I suppose there's no use in bickering over it, though, as ultimately everyone must draw their own conclusions. I think you stand a great chance of winning, no matter what Pasha decides. (If I haven't said so yet, I greatly admire your handling of Ulm. Have you played any other nations?)

PashaDawg

July 31st, 2005, 10:21 AM

Hello:

I have returned. It sounds like that Arco Council of Philosophers has a lot to debate. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Pasha

CUnknown

July 31st, 2005, 05:13 PM

Thank you, Jurri! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I have played Man, Ctis, and Vanheim a little as well.

I also admire your mad skillz, cheap lobo guard or no, if anyone else was doubled like you were in this game (for at least 20 turns, right?) they probably would have lost, or at least been extremely hurt. Maybe you were hurt, but have bounced back. Either way, it's impressive.

I'd be interested to find out how many gems you get from the first turn of the Nexus. I bet you're not going to tell us, though!

jeffr

July 31st, 2005, 10:13 PM

A new turn is up.

"would be the one eating up jeffr's remains" - that hurts http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

"but Pangea's provinces were all set to 200% tax forever, and aren't worth much." - yep, the sign of a good player, eh? Poverty rules!

"They are also fairly gem-poor." - an even better sign of a good player! Hmmm, maybe I should rethink this one.

"Zen's item mod makes me want to puke. I will never play with it in one of my games."

I hope you change your mind on this and consider it for your next game. I think the item mod might introduce some variety and make item construction much more interesting. Anything that promotes variety and choice is a good thing as far as I'm concerned. It seems to me that everyone currently builds more or less the same small subset of items, which is a shame considering the number of items in the game.

Cainehill said above, "Making lifedraining weapons less common is a majorly good thing about it, imo; likewise making staff of storms, etc, harder to attain."

I agree with this. Does anyone have experience with the item mod? Have games played out differently?

CUnknown

July 31st, 2005, 11:53 PM

Well, I'm open to the possibility of changing my mind about it. I do like that some of the weaker weapons have been made cooler. I just can't get over the lifedrain thing.. it seems like it essentially removed lifedrain from the game (except maybe for the rare 40+ strength guy or Golems with astral weapon). I thought lifedrain was a nice aspect, something that allowed SCs to compete with armies. I agree with making armies more powerful, and that's been done with Zen's other mods and SC's mod (and other mods). I don't think that you need to -also- weaken lifedrain. I'd agree with a price hike--make wraith and hellswords cost 20 gems each, and I'd agree with a damage and attack value nerf on Blood Thorns (maybe to 0 or -2). Zen's mod just goes too far, and that's an understatement. It goes way too far.

I'm ambivalent about the nerf to hoard items. I can see the value for nerfing them if you like to play on large maps, but I don't. Small maps with quick action are the way to go, imo. Under those conditions, I think hoard items are balanced in vanilla.

I dislike most of the other changes in the mod, such as making flying boots, water bracelets, etc. more expensive. I don't see the reason for it, and it would really hurt my Ulm game, heh. I can't really see Ulm doing very well in an item mod game, and I think most people believe them to be weak. There would be no question they'd be weak in an item mod game. Item construction is their bread and butter, you nerf that, you're killing them. Where would I be in this game, for example, if I couldn't hoard bloodstones, clams, if I couldn't make flying boots, water bracelets, etc? I'd be up the creek! My god can do anything, but she can't do everything at once.

Yes, now we're getting to the meat of the issue. The item mod drastically nerfs my favorite race! You guys happy?? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Boron

August 1st, 2005, 06:10 AM

Qm now continues the mod. He already did many new tweaks.
About the LL weapons he is still unsure but he is 100% sure that he has to improve them. Zen's version of LL weapons are garbage. I personally don't mind though because i love troophordes and nerfed LL makes the troophordes a bit more valuable strat http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif.

The Panther

August 1st, 2005, 11:26 AM

Unfortunately, the single best change for life drain is not fixable in a mod. All that really needs to be done it make life drain steal HP only and NOT fatigue. If the battle goes too long, then they will get fatigued out and die like ordinary troops. This potentially fixes both the troops with inherent lifedrain (can you say 'much-too-powerful Vampire Lords and Queens'?) in addition to fixing the weapons.

If commanders with LD could die from fatigue and you therefore had to consider reinvigoration items, then LD would not be a no-brainer like it is now for an SC.

Oh, and about the Nexus: Since you are using the spell mod and Wish is not available, then Nexus/Clams are not near as powerful as in the base game. Still extremely strong, of course, but not worthy of resigning at once. Jurri could summon a lot of abominations, though, if he wants, and those guys are very good. Furthermore, because you are not at turn 100 yet, then perhaps he put it up with fewer pearls than the max.

Anyway, R'lyeh ought to have the most clams since Atlantis is not in the game.

Finally, as long as Aku valiantly holds out, Pasha will not be attacking anyone else, I would wager.

Aku

August 1st, 2005, 12:04 PM

Well nobody seems to be attacking me since i destroyed pasha's main army including his god lol. They just want to leave me at 2 provinces and dom kill me!

CUnknown

August 1st, 2005, 12:57 PM

Yay Aku! You rock.

jeffr

August 1st, 2005, 02:07 PM

"I dislike most of the other changes in the mod, such as making flying boots, water bracelets, etc. more expensive."

I guess we just disagree then http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif I also like this change. Why should I as Pangaea have easy access to Flying Boots and Boots of Quickness (via the Water Bracelet)? Pangaea is not supposed to be an Air or Water nation, yet I use the same old tactics as everyone else (although clearly not as well http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

I think the nations should be differentiated more. I'm Pan and yet I'm fielding Bane Lords with Hell Swords, Boots of Quickness, Lucky Coins, blah, blah, blah, the same as everyone else. What is that? If I want the benefits of these clearly superior items, I should have to do more than stick a water bracelet on a water random mage.

I'm just brainstorming here, but I would even go so far as to have some spell schools and items prohibit the use of opposite spell schools and items (Wraith Sword means no Lucky items as a first guess?). Do I want Nature or Death spells? Or Tartarians and Demons stacked with most mortals kills the mortal's morale. If I summon Fiends as Pan, shouldn't my Centaurs be pissed off? I'm just throwing thoughts around without thinking about them, but the goal is variety. Tough choices are more interesting.

The spell mod attempted to introduce variety and choice by making the obvious spells more difficult to cast. I liked the fact that I saw Iron Pigs on the battlefield! I think
the item mod might do the same for the item aspect of the game.

And I have a feeling Zen carefully considered the changes, although everything can be tweaked. I also agree with the idea that upping the item cost is not the solution for most of the items (Wraith Swords, etc.).

And hey, if you really think your favorite nation (say, Ulm) is not playable with this mod, then I'd be willing to play the next game as Pan without something I like (say, White Centaurs). Although Jurri, or someone else, will probably just kill me off that much earlier and use my resources against you http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

But maybe we should ask those with experience. Does anyone have first-hand knowledge of games played with the Item Mod?

YellowCactus

August 1st, 2005, 02:29 PM

Is there a maximum number of gems you can put into a global?
-yc

The Panther

August 1st, 2005, 02:32 PM

This is an interesting discussion and I have to agree with Jeff about the items.

I am playing in Yarnspinners2, where the main point of the game is writing yarns and not necessarily winning. I am therefore making thematic choices (which are not necessarily the best or even the usual choices) because of the yarns. As part of my story tale, I wanted to outfit my Great Enchantress pretender with a bunch of cheap artifacts. And, because the game is still fairly early (plus I wanted to be totally thematic), I only built low-level air or nature items (I am base Man). No astral or death artifacts! Can you believe that someone would actually outfit a pretender without luck or MR or LD??? I did! It was actually quite fun looking around for an interesting combination of Man-specific artifacts which seem to mesh well together. Did you know that weightless scale mail is really cool for a mage?

I suppose I have been playing Dominions long enough by now that I am more interested in variety instead of doing the absolute best thing (like life drain, luck, boots of flying or quickness, magic resistance, etc).

The Panther

August 1st, 2005, 02:33 PM

YellowCactus said:
Is there a maximum number of gems you can put into a global?
-yc

Yes - it is 999.

CUnknown

August 1st, 2005, 03:20 PM

"I am playing in Yarnspinners2, where the main point of the game is writing yarns and not necessarily winning."

Hey Panther, I totally agree with the role-playing aspect and that writing yarns is fun. I agree that lifedrain is, at times, a no-brainer choice (not all the time, however), and that it should be nerfed.

"And I have a feeling Zen carefully considered the changes"

You can carefully consider something and still make a terrible mod. I love Zen's other mods, but the item mod is just awful. While I agree that Lifedrain should be nerfed, Zen nerfed it to an insane degree.

I also agree that variety of options in a strategy game is something positive. Without variety, there is no strategy, is there? But, I actually think that the item mod in some aspects has -removed- options, case in point Lifedrain weapons. Sure, you can say that "Oh, now people will start to use other weapons! That adds variety." But. if people weren't using other weapons in vanilla, I have serious doubts about their ability as a player. I use other weapons all the time, by no means are my SCs solely lifedrain-machines. If I use lifedrain more than other weapons, it's -not- because the lifedrain weapons are more powerful. I much prefer the artifact weapons, for example. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif But, also I love fire brands, flambeaus (basically anything armor-piercing), herald lances, moon blades, etc. I think that flambeaus are a far superior weapon than a Wraithsword, even. But those wraith and hell swords are just so damn cheap! They need to be twice as expensive, but they sure don't need a damage nerf. They do rather weak damage already. The Blood Thorn, on the other hand, is a dagger, and shouldn't do a lot of damage. Turning it from +4 damage, +2 attack to +0 damage +0 attack sounds like a plan. Even -2 damage, +0 attack if you're feeling froggy.

I am playing a game with the item mod right now (Faerun), and I can tell you my weapon choices have changed very little (except for the obvious no more lifedrain thing). Basically, Fire Brands are the best weapon now and I try to eqiup most people with one of those, or an anti-demon weapon (Flambeau). Although there are admittedly other very good choices (that weakness-causing morning star comes to mind).

As far as Jeffr's concern about shiny-happy-tree huggers summoning demons, I agree that that's a problem. There's no way to solve it in Dom2, though...I'm looking forward to Dom3 for that. Dom2 is just geared for everyone to use the same weapons, troops, etc.

Cainehill

August 1st, 2005, 03:30 PM

But making items (such as wraith swords) more expensive means that the magic path required to forge it goes up; apparently you can't increase the gem cost without increasing the magic path requirements, unlike spells.

So : Let's say wraithswords would now cost 20 death gems. So, a death 3 mage instead of a death 2 mage. Now fewer nations can forge it, exactly what you didn't like about the changes to the flying boots and water bracelets. In fact, bumping the wraithsword cost would tend to mean that those nations and SCs that arguably least need lifedraining weapons are the ones most likely to be able to forge them : death nations that can summon undead champions that don't normally accumlate fatigue anyway.

About the flying shoes : I kind of agree with you there, but only because they're a utility item sorely needed for all those 1-strategic move mages. But, I do like the idea of them not being so easy to outfit all SCs with. So what I've suggested to Quantum Mechanic (who is now working on the mods) is cheaper flying carpets, since they can't be used in combat, and making air boots require construction-6 instead of air 2. Be even better if you could make them require 10 or 15 air gems, but still be forgable by an Air-1 mage, but you can't.

PashaDawg

August 1st, 2005, 10:05 PM

His Luminescence, the Shedu of Arco, agrees that AKU rocks, and for he certainly taught His Luminescence a lesson (and singed his fur).

However, the Council of Philosophers are currently debating vigorously as to the most fitting way to smite-smush the Evil Aku for his misdeeds.

Jurri

August 2nd, 2005, 11:58 AM

CU: Would you believe me even if I told you what the nexus produces? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Thank you for the compliment, although it's mostly a feature of the undewater nations that they can tenaciously cling to life, rather than any supreme strategy... My greatest asset is selecting the most broken nation for the environment! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

I participated in a game with a mod where the life-drain weapons had been significantly raised in cost (like, a blood thorn for 80 slaves); well, that didn't remove them, it only served to limit them to heavy blood nations, which in my opinion only unbalanced the game in their favor. Zen's solution makes them rather unusable for most anyone, which isn't cool either. Perhaps lowering their damage and attack would be a good solution (less than the ~20? points Zen has), since then a good armor or high defense would protect against them. Indeed, wouldn't lowering their attack value or damage by something like 5 points accomplish almost the same thing as Panther's proposition of removing the fatigue-gain? Only, instead of having to fit a reinvigoration item to the mix, attack boosters or strength boosters would need to be considered.

I haven't yet played a game with the item-mod, but I'm not sure if it's a good idea to have area of effect magical weapons especially with multiple attacks. As I understand it, with an AoE attack the hit is certain; thus these weapons make attack and defense values a non-issue, weakening all sorts of units that don't need any weakening and also strengthening astral weapon that wouldn't really need it. (Assuming astral weapon works with AoE attacks - I don't see a reason why not.) An always hitting, armor-negating ~40 point attack 4 times a turn should shut up most opposition. With a quicknessed golem and the morning star that gives 10 damage you can, assuming the above. (Undoubtedly with so high a damage bonus you wouldn't even need astral weapon, come to think of it, so a regenerating chassis might be preferable.) But this is just conjencture with no testing whatsoever, which I'm more than happy to try out in the next game Chris hosts! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Turin

August 2nd, 2005, 12:11 PM

Cainehill said:

Be even better if you could make them require 10 or 15 air gems, but still be forgable by an Air-1 mage, but you can't.

Interesting to read all those things about the item mod. You can make air boots 10 gems, but forgeable by a lvl 1 mage though. Just add air1 as a secondary path again and they cost 2*5 gems.

jeffr

August 2nd, 2005, 12:43 PM

Actually, having thought about it for a couple of more seconds, I think I like the idea of making Flying Boots and Boots of Quickness more difficult to obtain (via higher paths and higher cost) even more than I like the nerfing of the Life Draining weapons.

Flying and Quickness are very important (as demonstrated by the fact every SC has them, along with Luck) and should be difficult to obtain. A Life Draining weapon without Quickness isn't as bad. Non-flying commanders would have to slog through the map to reach you.

If it's pissing everyone off so much, maybe some damage could be given back to the LD weapons? I like the idea of having to increase your attack and damage via other items (or spells) in order to compensate for the weakened LD weapons, though.

On the flip side, I don't want to ruin the game for anyone. If someone really enjoys building flying, quickened, lucky, life draining Bane Lord types, then that's cool. Hey, I'll just keep providing a good target http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

So, hurry up and blast one another to hell so we can start another game and test all of this out http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

CUnknown

August 2nd, 2005, 01:51 PM

Jeffr, this game is going to keep going for a loong time..

There is no end in sight!

Oversway

August 2nd, 2005, 02:42 PM

I put some of these suggestions in the mod thread.

As I understand it, with an AoE attack the hit is certain

I know that units with mirror images/glamour arn't always hit by aoe weapon or spells. So I'm not sure if that is true. The firebrands, star of thraldon, and other aoe attacks are pretty nice, but they arn't as good as an unmodded LD weapon http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Jurri

August 2nd, 2005, 03:55 PM

Hehe, mirror image is whole another can of worms... It would seem that it helps even against precision 100 spells and AoE spells and attacks and everything, really. It's a rare ability, though, and if you only have one mirror image (as with glamour, right?) it's likely that one of the two attacks of a morning star hits - which is likely to be deadly if the wielder has a strength value about the same as your protection.

I'm just saying that in the base game there are no AoE weapons that add strength. What are the implications for Vans, Serpent Dancers, and all other poor troops who rely on defense to survive? Do they need another cheap counter? (Aren't the weapons, like, 10 gems a piece?) I guess I kinda like the element of attack vs. defense, which is lost with AoE weapons. This needs to be tested out to properly assess, I'm sure, so maybe you'll tell us how things work out in Faerun!

Oversway

August 2nd, 2005, 04:33 PM

It seems that glamour auto-casts mirror image - so you get more images if your glamour-d commander has air magic. But otherwise I think you are right, just 1.

As far as MI being rare... depends on how many air nations are in the game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

CUnknown

August 2nd, 2005, 11:32 PM

I think mirror image should protect against precision 100 attacks, but not against area affect attacks. The difference being, a 100 precision attack always hits what the attacker is aiming at, but what if he's aiming at a false image?

If it protects you from area affect, that would be a bug.

I didn't realize that adding fire strike area affect to fire brands makes them always hit. Doesn't the area affect portion always hit, but the regular damage part of the attack miss sometimes? That would make them overpowered, I agree.

Jurri

August 3rd, 2005, 07:05 AM

Mirror image is rather bugged indeed. I'm not sure if I agree with your conceptualization, though; consider, if a blind being casts enslave mind, should mirror images stop it?

The magic item mod adds to weapon #80 an area of effect 1, as far as I can see. 80 is Fire Brand, according to the weapon&armor database. My understanding is that the AoE affects the regular attack part of the weapon, and the special effects are weapons of their own - hence, the weapon should always hit every target in one square, regardless of attack or defense. (Upon closer inspection it would seem that the fire effect is integrated into the Fire Brand, so it's not a weapon of its own. Thus it's possible that also the fire part of the attack enjoys the benefits of AoE.) Isn't the damn thing also armor piercing and have base damage of 12? It's probably even better then than the morning stars with 2 attacks each, against some enemies at least. I dunno if they are overpowered without testing it out, but on the drawing table they do look pretty much a no-brainer in comparison to the other weapons available.

Jurri

August 5th, 2005, 02:18 PM

A new turn! With a cruel, cruel stab from my bestest friend (after the good council of Arcoscephale and their furry lord, of course), Chris, without the one turn warning we had agreed upon. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif Time after time he betrays my trust, and yet I foolishly, foolishly understand not to stop giving him another chance.

What version is the server running? I notice a discrepancy with a battle replay and report.

CUnknown

August 5th, 2005, 02:41 PM

Yes, I know, I attacked without the 1 turn warning. Ulm justifies the attack in the best interests of the world as a whole, we cannot allow it to be ruled by invaders from outer space! Also, Jurri ruthlessly slaughtered some wolves of mine trying to rid the world of the remnants of Pangea, so in reality, he struck the first blow, nullifying the ceasefire agreement.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it!

The server should be running 2.16, like it had been.. there is a discrepancy?

Jurri

August 5th, 2005, 05:48 PM

Yeah, I'm running 2.16 yet the Ghost rider attack in C'tis differs in the report and the replay. You see it correctly? (My version of the replay has the Golem succumbing to the horsemen with the lobos finishing them afterwards.)

I was just straigthening my border with Pan when those wolves fell upon my geographer - hardly an act of war! The world's best interest is to rid itself of such heinous backstabbers as the Tin Cans of Ulm and their wicked witch of a leader. Also, with all those Abominations and all, I'm convinced your astral income is way higher than mine, nexus or no nexus. Call me a stupid-*** R'lyeh player if you will ('cause that's what I am) but my clammings can't compare.

I wonder why some of my 'spawn broke script yet others didn't. Mysterious!

PashaDawg

August 5th, 2005, 07:13 PM

The Arco Council of Philosophers are currently debating whether ULM should be forced to pay reparations to Jurri for breaking a binding treaty. Wow! The debate is vigorous and passionate. I will keep you all posted, because no doubt you all care A LOT about what the Council thinks.

Boron

August 5th, 2005, 09:22 PM

Jurri said:
I wonder why some of my 'spawn broke script yet others didn't. Mysterious!

Maybe too short range.

And i still don't believe you that you have only few clams. When i am clamming i always only tell my potential foes 1/3 - 1/4 of my amount of clams i really possess to lull them in safety. Probably you are just doing the same atm http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif.

So Pasha decide objective whom to attack. If you want the game to end soon then better attack Chris, if you want to keep it interesting though better attack Jurri. At least from my small part of the world this is the impression about the power balance i get with Jurri being by far the most powerful nation now.

At least i got some inspiration for Faerun from your Ryleh Jurri. Thanks for that http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif. For the slaughtering of my innocent mictlan folks i cannot thank you though http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif

CUnknown

August 5th, 2005, 10:32 PM

"I was just straigthening my border with Pan when those wolves fell upon my geographer - hardly an act of war!"

I feel that any break of the cease fire is an act of war. I think you knew that I was likely to be attacking that province that turn.

But, I'm not really mad about that. It just gives me a convienent excuse to launch the first salvos in the upcoming war!

Jurri--I did see the replay correctly, with the golem living and kicking ***. Later on he did die though to Mictlan's forces.

Pasha--I do care a lot about what the Council thinks! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

PashaDawg

August 6th, 2005, 08:47 PM

New Turn Up!

Jurri

August 7th, 2005, 10:33 AM

Boron: You better not do anything the way I do it - all you get is tons of suspicion without the power to warrant it! I think you're grossly underestimating the worth of armies and provinces. I should study the way you play...

The problem with my scripts is that I've got all my 'spawn scripted on returning to respond to the earth attacks Chris sends. Some seem to not work, however. This turn I had two mages that I'm absolutely, positively, 100% sure I put gems on show up without 'em, which annoys me to no end.

CU: Of course I didn't know you were going to attack there! That was but an accident, obviously, and if you had a problem with it you should have said so; your way of sneaking and stabbing isn't manly at all! You big pussy, you've stabbed me thrice already... I wonder if I learned yet?

CUnknown

August 7th, 2005, 03:09 PM

"That was but an accident, obviously, and if you had a problem with it you should have said so; your way of sneaking and stabbing isn't manly at all! You big pussy, you've stabbed me thrice already... I wonder if I learned yet?"

I'd rather use it as an excuse. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif It's a good one. You shouldn't have attacked Pangea, you did know that I was going to attack there at some point. Pangea only having like 2 provinces left at that point made it very likely I was going there that turn.

Anyway, it's good you did it, otherwise I wouldn't have an excuse! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Jurri

August 10th, 2005, 12:15 PM

Ugh, what happened to my scripts in Pranda!? Where was the Astral Tempest and what the F did the gargoyles do... Argh, Chris, if you still insist on being the less powerful, you can kiss my booty!

Is there a particular reason for putting your Soul Contracts (that you seem to have more than a few) on werewolves? Aren't they really fragile if a horror attacks, leastways compared to f. ex. the master smiths?

Also, why did my commander retreat from an assassination attempt? (That traitor prince.) That was claimed to have been fixed in 2.16, so is this a recurrence or what?

A terrible turn indeed for the Lurker in the Deeps! Aku, die off already so that Pasha can help me against the invincible superpower!

Jurri

August 10th, 2005, 12:25 PM

Oh, hey, on another look I seem to have offed the poor sap who made the Earth Blood Well! So it's not all bad.

CUnknown

August 10th, 2005, 03:46 PM

Yeah, Jurri... you've been killing me with those Ashen Angels. I hope they've been hurting you, as well, when they decide to turn on you (how often does that happen, by the way?).

I put some Soul Contracts on werewolves because I don't mind losing them if they die. I wouldn't want to lose a Master Smith. And with my Drain dominion, I don't think horrors are a big worry (I haven't been attacked by one yet).

I'm not sure about the assassination attempt retreat thing. I thought that was fixed, too.

Looking at that turn, Jurri, I couldn't decide if it was worse for you or for me. Obviously, my army is unstoppable by anything you have on the field right now. But, that's just one army, taking 1 province a turn. I can probably do a little better than that, but that's a slow way to go.

I don't have time at this point. Every turn Pasha waits to attack Jurri, he's massing up huge piles of gems. My gem income is now severely reduced since Deep Blood Well went down (lucky shot!). I'll take a few more provinces of Jurri's, maybe push him from Boron's lands, but when he pulls out his endgame army, we are all in for a world of hurt. My endgame armies are already out. My cards are on the table.

Pasha, I must insist you attack this horrible menace immediately!

PashaDawg

August 10th, 2005, 08:24 PM

Hello CUnknown:

The Council of Philosophers has given explicit instructions that the Arco military machine must complete it's police action in Abysia before any further activities. I have presented your postestations to the Council in earnest, but my pleas fell on deaf ears. Furthermore, the Council is now on recess, and His Luminescence is unwilling to use his special constitutional powers to circumvent the Council's customary role in declaring war on behalf of the Dominion. Sorry. I tried. Really!

Pasha

PashaDawg

August 10th, 2005, 09:25 PM

Hello - I just played my turn, but something went strange when I ended the turn. I can't tell, but is the server down?

Pasha

CUnknown

August 10th, 2005, 10:51 PM

No, it's not down. You can't connect?

PashaDawg

August 10th, 2005, 11:30 PM

I will try again.

Jurri

August 11th, 2005, 12:31 PM

If the target province has a lot of commanders, I think the chance for the Ashen Angel to turn on the sender is low. I haven't used them extensively ever, since they are so expensive, but maybe I'll know better after this game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif

A great point about the drain scale! I never realized that horrors and the scale are connected.

The retreat bug: considering that there was also the discrepancy in the playback, is it possible that you are running an older version and playing your turns using the selfsame version and thus not seeing it? A lot of my tactics involve retreat, so I'd like this fixed, if possible http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Looking at that turn, Jurri, I couldn't decide if it was worse for you or for me.

Heh, so you're comparing losing ~400 gems and almost 30 turns worth of specialized mage-time in items and commanders to losing an 80 gem global, that already paid itself back three times over? Dude, there's no huge pile of gems, I'm sure you won't even notice the loss of the Well with all your earthblood stones, you'll undoubtedly take well more than Boron's lands (you already have an unbreakable army heading for my central holdings), and there's no endgame army, except amassing in Ulm. Go on, tell me that multitude of devils isn't an endgame army, I dare you!

Your lies have won over the spineless Aku and Boron, but I'm sure Pasha will give you a taste of your own medicine with an Arcoscephalean dagger in your hunched back! Or rather, in your stomach, since he's no pathological backstabber, unlike some http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/stupid.gif

Just ask yourself how good a comparison is a country that has had only one nation attack it during the whole of the game (the brave Pasha)and a nation that has been ganged on twice. I don't know about your strategies, but when I'm ganged on, it dang well shows; when I'm not, it shows too. I find it ridiculous what you and Boron have repeated for twenty turns, that you, who have 70+ provinces at your use, and I, who have about 50, could be at a even nearly same level of power. Much less so that I would be winning!

Dude, you're a great Ulm-player and your diplomacy is obviously second to none (looking at the cowed Aku and Boron), but if you manage to lie Pasha into attacking me in this situation my hat will truly be off to you! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

CUnknown

August 11th, 2005, 11:18 PM

"The retreat bug: considering that there was also the discrepancy in the playback, is it possible that you are running an older version and playing your turns using the selfsame version and thus not seeing it? A lot of my tactics involve retreat, so I'd like this fixed, if possible"

How can I fix it? I'm running 2.16, what version are you running?

Jurri, all I can say is that I am losing more provinces to you a turn than my army is taking. One army can't beat you, you have too many SCs that are viable on their own.

Pasha--if you don't agree to help in the war, you have to at least give me access to Jurri's other land provinces. I need province 54 from you, please?

Jurri

August 12th, 2005, 02:03 PM

I guess it's some re-occuring weirdness, then, with the retreat-bug. Oh, well, I'll just have to live with it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

I count at least 4 perfectly capable armies (one of 'em underwater) which is on par with my numbers of SCs. (Speaking of, how do you like them gargoyles? I think they are very good, but damn hard to make and expensive.) And of course a totally ridiculous amount of wolves! (Just how many do you have? Well over a thousand, surely.)

CUnknown

August 12th, 2005, 06:32 PM

I love the SC gargoyles! I copied you, I made an SC gargoyle in Faerun. Great idea!

PashaDawg

August 12th, 2005, 08:01 PM

SC gargoyles?

CUnknown

August 12th, 2005, 11:33 PM

Gargoyles that have been Gift of Reasoned. They rock! Their natural protection is like 24, so you can get over 30 easy with some armor. They're mindless, they fly.. they just rule. Only 10 earth gems, then another what..20? nature for the Gift of Reason. Not a bad deal at all, imo. I am totally stealing that idea in the future. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Cainehill

August 13th, 2005, 12:45 AM

Check out SC abominations and juggernauts http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Jurri

August 13th, 2005, 08:23 AM

Don't the abominations and juggernauts seriously lack slottage? Otherwise they'd be great! The same with Tarrasques, although Nature gems are precious.

The gargoyles are also lifeless, which is a great bonus if life-drain weapons are available... On the other hand I've fitted the Monolith armor on one three times already only to realize that no, it won't regenerate http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif They do require rare mages to make (or maybe that's only a twisted perception based on what nations I've played), but I guess Vanheim would have no trouble if druids are to be found.

I wonder where I copied the idea... Must have been the SC competition a while back.

PashaDawg

August 13th, 2005, 09:29 AM

The gargoyles don't heal after a battle so every bit of damage to them is permanent... right? Any way around that, or is that just a weakness?

Jurri

August 13th, 2005, 10:26 AM

Use a life-draining weapon! Other than that, get it to a lab and it will heal. For afflictions you'll need Gift of Health or the Chalice, though.

PashaDawg

August 13th, 2005, 01:39 PM

So those Gargoyles will "repair" automatically in a lab? Is that the same with all such creatures that do not heal?

jeffr

August 13th, 2005, 02:51 PM

Jurri said:
Use a life-draining weapon! Other than that, get it to a lab and it will heal. For afflictions you'll need Gift of Health or the Chalice, though.

Yet another reason why life-draining weapons are so powerful http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

Did anyone ever research the bit about the Area of Effect weapons always hitting? There was some discussion about this possibly making these weapons too powerful under the Item mod.

Oh, and please hurry up and exterminate each other http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

PashaDawg

August 15th, 2005, 10:16 PM

WOW!! Those gargoyles are MEAN truckers! One of His Luminescence�s NUMEROUS spies caught one in action.

PashaDawg

August 15th, 2005, 10:43 PM

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Hi y'all:

I am going to Wyoming from Friday - Wednesday (returning August 24). Panther has once again agreed to fill in for me, but he will be away Friday - Sunday. Any chance our esteemed host could ensure that a quickhost would not occur while my fine Proxy-Panther is away?

Pasha

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CUnknown

August 15th, 2005, 11:46 PM

Yes, I can turn off quickhost.

CUnknown

August 16th, 2005, 12:13 AM

Jurri took maybe 5-6 of my provinces this turn while I stormed 2 castles of his. I took the 2 castles, but that's a poor exhange for 5 provinces.. Jurri is going to sweep through Pangea, and there's nothing anyone can do to stop him. He probably already has more provinces than I do, and definitely in the next few turns he will.

I think he has a fairly large lead in this game, and it's going to take a concerted effort by the 3 powers remaining to beat him.

I don't think you should let him win, because he won the last game! And he even killed you personally last time if I recall. So, fight the power, man!! Let's do this. We can beat him if we all work together.

PashaDawg

August 16th, 2005, 09:23 AM

Hello CUnknown:

I will endeavor to get a hearing before the Council to present your argument against the growing empire of pond scum. However, the First Speaker of the Council has very anti-Ulm sentiments due to nasty crimes committed by a few Ulm thugs against his family when he was a child. He even got a law passed to change the name "Ulmish Tuna" (canned tuna) to "Freedom Tuna." Nonetheless, I will see what can be done.

Pasha

Jurri

August 17th, 2005, 09:49 AM

Thank you Aku, for the game! You sure lingered long.

I would exchange 5 provinces to 2 castles and a province any day. (You weren't trying to obscure your major SCs starting their assault in my backyard, now were you?) Everyone can count the provinces, I'm sure, so I don't think you'll be able to confuse anyone with your claims.

The one who's got the lead is you, with your SCs that are on another level compared to mine and humongous armies of concentrated ***-kicking! I'm sure that Astral Corruption (Nice move, Boron!) won't harm you none either, what with your immense lead in armies and items. Pasha oughta attack you ASAP, and so should Boron: I'm sure you'll hack me down to size even if they cut you up at the same time.

Also, wouldn't it be a nice tradition, me winning these games one after the another http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

YellowCactus

August 17th, 2005, 11:32 AM

I've got to side with Jurri on this one. Two Castles are worth far more than 5 provinces. Expecially if you leave about 50 guys in each as you move on. There's nothing worse than a siege. Best of luck to both of you.
-yc

CUnknown

August 17th, 2005, 06:16 PM

Actually, I lost big to Astral Corruption this turn. I don't want to say how big, but it was substantial. I have to keep casting spells, there really isn't much option. And when the doom horrors come, you're basically toast.

About the 5 provinces v 2 castles thing, I was just pointing out that my "concentrated asskicking" isn't buying me anything. As long as I lose more provinces each turn than I gain, I'm due for ruin, castle or no. I thought that in the beginning of Jurri and my war, that I would be taking more provinces than I'm loosing. But so far that hasn't been the case. And when Jurri is able to bring his incredible gem production to bear, I'm in for some big trouble.

Aku

August 17th, 2005, 08:23 PM

Now I wonder who will claim the fire kings now that they are available.

And Pasha is lucky I didnt get a chance to slay his god a second time because he chose to cowardly hide behind his skeptics.

PashaDawg

August 17th, 2005, 09:15 PM

Cowardly? Bah! Wise. Why make a frontal attack and risk losing my armies needlessly? What would I say to all the Arco orphans? Bah! Your candles were snuffed fair and square.

jeffr

August 18th, 2005, 02:44 PM

"And when the doom horrors come, you're basically toast"

You can only get these via Wish, right? Wasn't Wish removed in Zen's spell mod?

CUnknown

August 18th, 2005, 09:16 PM

Yes, that's true Jeffr.

I was talking about Astral Corruption. (!!!!!!!!!!)

Damn, that spell is horrifying! I didn't realize it sent Doom Horrors after you, I thought it was just lesser horrors and medium horrors.

I got assassinated by multiple Doom Horrors this past turn for daring to cast spells when Astral is Corrupted.

jeffr

August 19th, 2005, 12:54 AM

Ah, ok. I've never made it far enough to be nailed by this spell.

PashaDawg

August 19th, 2005, 08:02 AM

Hi Guys:

So, The Panther is filling in for me again while I am off to Wyoming.

I will be back on Wednesday night (Aug. 24).

Thanks.

Pasha

Jurri

August 19th, 2005, 12:03 PM

Hey jeffr, now's your chance! Surely you've got at least one mage stashed somewhere, right?

Chris, this turn you got more provinces than you lost, so it's all according to your plan. My jaw always drops when I see the armies you field: it's riveting, trying to think up a way to deal with them! So far, no luck. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Maybe I'll get you to split them up someday.

The Fire Kings aren't worth the cost, in my opinion. What sort of gear should one put on them?

CUnknown

August 20th, 2005, 08:42 PM

I love the names of your Air and Water Queens, Jurri. "Ulmbane" and what was the other one? "ChrisMustDie the Queen of Air?" Heheh..

Jurri

August 22nd, 2005, 12:07 PM

That's just so I remember what they are doing http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif The turns are rather complicated at this point for my scatterbrain, you know.

That heroic centaur is one mean commando, btw. I wish him a long and fruitful life! I'd even send him stuff if he had a lab to arm himself with, but guess not.

CUnknown

August 22nd, 2005, 11:55 PM

Jurri, you have been -so- lucky with Magic Duel this game it's driving me freakin' nuts!!!

PashaDawg

August 25th, 2005, 09:18 AM

I'm back!

Wyoming was very nice, but it's great to return to sea level.

Pasha

Jurri

August 25th, 2005, 11:35 AM

A new turn; it's right back to 'work' for Pasha http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I'm still sore from the high magus merc magic dueling my golem way back when, so these recent successes are really soothing http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif What I find disturbing is how much better your incinerators are at picking the correct targets than my soul slayers http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif I'm speaking about Ghost Riders of course; for the slayer there are 33 wrong targets and 1 good target per casting, still the same thing happens as with the mech men earlier: if there's a mindless thing in the same square as the proper target, the spell will invariably target the mindless thing to no effect. On the other hand the incinerators have 34 targets that ought to be somewhat equal, yet they still pick the leader to burn first. Annoying!

...but I don't mind, this last turn was immensely fun to do, and even though most my plans failed enough got through that I'm seeing light at the end of the tunnel! Chris will probably just scoff at my little successes with his overpowering might, but these are important for my fighting morale.

CUnknown

August 25th, 2005, 12:39 PM

"Chris will probably just scoff at my little successes with his overpowering might, but these are important for my fighting morale."

Um....

I still feel pretty powerful in this game, but it's clear that Jurri is going to win. His gem income is just not going away, and that's all there is to it, basically. My strength will be eroded over time and his will build. And, it's not like I'm even winning now, against him. I'll give you guys the numbers as far as provinces I took v. provinces I lost this past turn later, but I'll tell you it's not a pretty sight. Something like 1:10?

It's going to be a long, slow process, but there really isn't much hope of defeating Jurri at this point, it doesn't seem.