Invisible Swarm III: over [Archive]

Boron

May 2nd, 2005, 07:52 PM

Jurri said:

Boron said:
Trying out Mictlan as practice for the faerun game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

Mictlan + Faerun? Dude, you're in for a world of pain! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif Although Ygorl did play a hundred turns of that combo and didn't flip out, so maybe it isn't so bad...

I would support some nice victory condition, too, the antagonist that I seem to be http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Perhaps 60-70% of the provinces? Or scatter, like, 21 victory points or so and ask for 15 to win? Or 2 thirds of all capitals?

Yeah i think i am slightly masochistic. Maybe even extremely masochistic (I play G�tterd�mmerung on VH and even enjoy it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif).

I would say no victory conditions needed because if there are left only 2-3 players normally if a player sees that he loses he resigns anyway after getting a few turns of beating.
I resigned in my last game also when my nasty enemy slowly killed down my clammules. I would have been able to resist him for 30-40 more turns probably but it would have been in vain because i was not growing, rather losing resources each turn while he was growing and growing.

So i think if there are left 2-3 players after 10-20 turns of heavy fighting the winner will be rather clear and though he would need another 20-30 turns to win normally the opponents surrender until they are EXTREMELY masochistic.

PashaDawg

May 2nd, 2005, 08:08 PM

Can I join as Arco?

Aku

May 2nd, 2005, 08:11 PM

yay we get pasha!

PashaDawg

May 2nd, 2005, 08:45 PM

Yeee-haaww!!!

Aku

May 2nd, 2005, 09:22 PM

Chris how many players you plan for the map? I think we got 8 players signed up already.

CUnknown

May 2nd, 2005, 09:46 PM

I have to save a spot for YC! We have 8 already, damn! Let's do 9-10 players, I guess. The game will be 24-h quickhost for the first 25-30 turns or so, then 48-h quickhost.

No victory conditions, I agree.. people usually will give up in a reasonable time anyway.

And yeah, we'll use all 4 mods, it seems like some people like those settings, so we'll stick with them.

I put a player list in the 2nd post.

Manuk - the game will be on my computer

Aku

May 2nd, 2005, 10:38 PM

maybe save the last spot for manuk since yc is 9 and manuk will be 10? manuk is an active player and good also

Saber Cherry

May 3rd, 2005, 05:35 AM

Jurri said:I'm not sure if having both the zen mods and SCs mod is a good idea, though. Consider: Zen mods make army-killing spells harder to cast and army-buffing spells easier to cast. Cherry mod makes it much easier to make large armies...

Personally... I'd say that while my mod makes does large armies easier to make overall, it makes large armies of good units only slightly easier to make, and in some cases a bit more difficult. The mod only makes large armies of bad units much easier to make http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif The mod is designed to work well in conjunction with Zen's mods; I kept note of them while creating it (the weapon and armor IDs he uses do not overlap with mine, for example).

Playing solo, I prefer to use my mod + Zen's Pretenders + Zen's Magic. But I will admit to a slight bias http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Jurri

May 3rd, 2005, 08:57 AM

Well, yeah, but most battfield-wide buffs don't much care for what exactly is being buffed! Army of Gold makes five 3 gold militia a no-brainer compared to one black plate of Ulm, in the way of an example. And with the requirements to cast said spell toned down, it's available to anyone with an E2 mage, with a not-so-high research-level. Also, with the change in the supply modifier there really isn't a problem in fielding five times as large militia armies as the black-plate armies would be (At least I don't see the point in having more than ~50 black plate in an army, and that's a large one at that.)

I guess what I fear is that the armies fielded tend to homogenize, as the buffs are easy to cast and the differences in unit cost so huge. 23 militia or 1 van, when you have weapons of sharpness available? 53 militia or 1 niefel giant assuming you have fog warriors?

But, I haven't tested this at all (aside from the army of gold... it really is great at that research-level and at E4!) so it's just guesswork against your testing, so what do I know? I'm sure Resok et al. will show me the wisdom of fielding other stuff than militia! I'll comment more on the combination of the mods after my butt has been kicked...

Saber Cherry

May 3rd, 2005, 09:27 AM

That's actually a pretty good point... in the magic-mod I'm making (and may or may not ever release) I'm making battlefield-effect spells generally more expensive, and not reducing their research level, as I think that several are already too strong. Army of gold / lead / marble warriors / fog warriors / haste / relief are particularly suspect... especially in combination with each other! I had been thinking more about mass-evocations in my response.

As far as cheap units with powerful buffs go, I guess they're a pretty potent strategy to which I had not given much thought. Such strategies only work on the offensive (meaning, when you correctly allocate your gems and script your mages), and only when your offensive goes as planned, as I learned in SOC1 when somebody's Ghost Riders absorbed all 45+ of my mage-gems before the real battle http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif But they will still probably work.

VALENT

May 3rd, 2005, 12:23 PM

can a beginner play with man? i don't know multi.
its my first multi.

YellowCactus

May 3rd, 2005, 12:31 PM

I would be happy to sub in this game.
-Yc

CUnknown

May 3rd, 2005, 01:43 PM

Nooo YC, play!

Sure Valent, you can play. I think that is all, though. I guess we will start soon, I will keep people posted.

Oh, and there will be -way- more than 50 black plates, Jurri, and they're all coming at yoououuu!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

VALENT

May 3rd, 2005, 02:20 PM

YellowCactus

May 3rd, 2005, 02:50 PM

some questions please for a beginner:
1)what is the map? i don't know if i have telecharge it.
2)the mods is exactly what? the name please of each mod.
3) the players are not to strong? don't forget it my first multi!!!

1)Usually Chris determines the map once all the players are counted. (Wrapping maps ARE best)
2)YEA! You need to be clear about those MODs. Once everyone's argued over MODs for a while...
3)These players are VERY strong. Expecially PASHA. Team up on him from the outset. /threads/images/Graemlins/Bug.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Dagger.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Bug.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Dagger.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Bug.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Dagger.gif

-Yc

VALENT

May 3rd, 2005, 03:42 PM

"Team up on him from the outset. " don't understand!

)"These players are VERY strong. Expecially PASHA"
i am not sure to play if all palyers are strong ,its not interesting for me to be beat about 10 turns !!

VALENT

May 3rd, 2005, 03:43 PM

i forget : is there the possibility to make alliance?

Ironhawk

May 3rd, 2005, 05:09 PM

If there is still space, sign me up for this one. Don't know what nation yet but I'm up for trying out a new one so I will just pick whatever is left over after you all.

Very eager to test my skills playing against "VERY strong" players >:)

quantum_mechani

May 3rd, 2005, 05:32 PM

As long as you don't move to a bigger map, I would be interested in playing Mackaka.

PashaDawg

May 3rd, 2005, 07:26 PM

YellowCactus said:
3)These players are VERY strong. Expecially PASHA. Team up on him from the outset. /threads/images/Graemlins/Bug.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Dagger.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Bug.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Dagger.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Bug.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Dagger.gif

-Yc

HEY!!! No jokes at my expense! Just because I am an exceptional loser!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/Injured.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/Injured.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/Injured.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rant.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rant.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

VALENT

May 4th, 2005, 02:30 AM

i think its too hard for me this multi. sorry i don't want to play this multi with so strong players ,i will be discourage. too difficult for me.
d�sol�!

CUnknown

May 4th, 2005, 04:02 AM

We're not that strong, Valent! They were joking around..

We are a range from average to good here, I think. We know what we're doing, but we're not the best players in the world. Jurri is pretty damn good, though. I think we should all team up on him first. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

If you want to play, you should play. Maybe a game with new players would be better, but it's like anyone is going to laugh at you or anything. And hey, everyone has to lose but one person, anyway. Most of us will share in your fate.

Jurri

May 4th, 2005, 07:46 AM

I ain't that great, guys, so knock it off already! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/redface.gif The roster as a whole does look very formidable, though...

I'm not sure if this heavily modded game is a good choice for a total beginner, unless you know exactly that this is your thing. If you haven't played solo with the mods we'll use then I'd definitely recommend starting out in a less modded environment... Perhaps Alneyan the altruist could be bugged into hosting another beginner game, or I'm not sure if Mosehansen has a free slot.

The map, well, like I said I dig wraparounds and in fact had half a mind to edit Karan into one (would be relatively easyish, actually, I guess) but then I couldn't open it in gimp for some mysterious reason and got sidetracked into updating the Emblem-mod instead (now with custom guis for each nation!), so I guess I'm content with using the non-wrapping Karan, or anything else that is not bigger than that. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/yawn.gif

Saber Cherry

May 4th, 2005, 07:52 AM

Jurri said:I ... got sidetracked into updating the Emblem-mod instead (now with custom guis for each nation!)

Ooooh... neat! Somehow I totally missed this when you first posted it. Why don't you attach it to the original thread (so I don't have to wait for Illwinter to put up a new version http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif)?

Bluebird

May 4th, 2005, 09:25 AM

Ok Folks, I am joining as T'ien Ch'i ... is there IP and Port of the server known already?

CUnknown

May 4th, 2005, 02:19 PM

Okay, that is 11 players, y'all. It's gonna be tight! I'm sure not as tight as last game, though.

The IP is: 68.190.44.112 port 2000.

At least I think that is the IP. Um..if people have problems connecting, let me know.

Remember: use the lastest patch (2.16) and the latest version of Zen's 3 mods and SC's mod.

Resok

May 4th, 2005, 04:52 PM

I'll have to connect to it later on tonight when I'm not at work http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Dang corporate firewalls...

Resok

jeffr

May 4th, 2005, 05:18 PM

I just have to have the mods enabled when I create my pretender, right?

I don't have to have them enabled when I connect to your server and play the game, right?

quantum_mechani

May 4th, 2005, 05:56 PM

jeffr said:
I just have to have the mods enabled when I create my pretender, right?

I don't have to have them enabled when I connect to your server and play the game, right?

Correct.

Ironhawk

May 4th, 2005, 07:25 PM

Sorry I havent picked a nation. I am still on the fence about the decision. I'll figure something out tonight tho.

Saber Cherry

May 5th, 2005, 02:42 AM

Note:

Some people are playing two games with two versions of the Recruitable Rebalance mod. I had been giving all versions the same filename and modname, so that people could upgrade mid-game if desired. However, this causes problems, as I found out.

I have attached Recruitable Rebalance version 7.51, which is identical to 7.50 in every way, except that the file is named "Recruitable Rebalance 751.dm" and the modname is "Recruitable Rebalance 751".

Would you mind using version 7.51 for this game, rather than 7.50 (which did NOT have a unique name), to avoid complications? As long as everyone downloads and unzips the attached file, and the host enables it prior to the game, there will be nothing further required (nobody needs to make new gods, just reupload them).

I apologize for causing unnecessary work.

P.S. The file is attached for convenience and is identical to the one in the mod's thread.

CUnknown

May 5th, 2005, 03:54 AM

I deleted everyone's god so they have to reupload. At the request of SC, we will play with the 7.51 mod.

Ironhawk

May 5th, 2005, 05:01 AM

Arg! I can't decide which nation to pick. Got it down to Jot or Man, with the Vans as dark horse (ha!). Leaning towards Man but we will see how I feel as the day progresses.

Aku

May 5th, 2005, 05:13 AM

ok i re-uploaded with the 751 cherry mod

Jurri

May 5th, 2005, 06:04 AM

Jurri, Friend of All, the Giver of Food is ready to go! Please be gentle with him, he's totally harmless...

Saber Cherry said:
Ooooh... neat! Somehow I totally missed this when you first posted it. Why don't you attach it to the original thread (so I don't have to wait for Illwinter to put up a new version http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif)?

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/redface.gif You mean actually release it to the public... I wasn't necessarily planning on doing that (there being generally little interest in cosmetic mods) but I will at least send it to you later today.

PashaDawg

May 5th, 2005, 08:40 AM

I need to go to work and then I am in a play. So, it won't be until fairly late before I upload a pretender. Sorry for any delay.

Boron

May 5th, 2005, 06:11 PM

Jurri said:
Jurri, Friend of All, the Giver of Food is ready to go! Please be gentle with him, he's totally harmless...

Hehe i wonder how many turns i survive this time. At least it can only get better than last time i guess http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

PashaDawg

May 5th, 2005, 11:14 PM

Hey yah! What was the secret weapon you used in the last game, Jurri, that knocked poor Boron out so quickly?

PashaDawg

May 6th, 2005, 12:42 AM

Arco pretender uploaded?

Check! Good to go.

Roger that.

CUnknown

May 6th, 2005, 04:15 AM

The secret weapon was an immortal Dracolich, which is illegal in this game -just because-.

quantum_mechani

May 6th, 2005, 04:45 AM

CUnknown said:
The secret weapon was an immortal Dracolich, which is illegal in this game -just because-.

Hmm, that just might, possibly, be be my fault. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

Still, I don't see how it is much worse than the VQ, seeing as Jotun has trouble really pushing dominion in the early game.

Ironhawk

May 6th, 2005, 05:15 AM

My man pretender is in. Sorry bout the delay. Agonizing over magic and scales took forever.

Jurri

May 6th, 2005, 05:22 AM

Just take dominion 10 for the Dracolich and you're set http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Don't ask how much it costs to raise dominion from 1 to 10, though...

I described my reasoning for it to Alneyan a bit more in detail but I seem to have lost it... Maybe a good thing, here's the crux: The dragons in the mod are too powerful with their AOE attack, and two regular attacks! Take an S5 Dracolich (=S3 in dragon form) and you have on turn 1 a luck-casting monstrosity (Utg�rd, remember) that can't be stopped. Then later it gets such nasties as astral weapon and body ethereal and teleport, making it really a lean mean killing machine. No need for equipment or anything, just lob it in the right direction... VQ can't hold a candle to it, by far, costing more for less.

Saber Cherry

May 6th, 2005, 07:16 AM

VQs get all of their magic paths, though, and life-drain. And integral regen and ethereality. And they can take the whole set of equipment, including Charcoal Shields, which are probably more effective than Wing Buffet. The best VQ-killer (dust to dust) does not work against air-enabled VQs, because Mirror Image is bugged and negates AOE spells.

Don't discount them just yet... I've never seen a Zen-modded Dracolich in action, but anything stronger than the VQ I did see would be very scary indeed.

Jurri

May 6th, 2005, 08:23 AM

Saber Cherry said:
Don't discount them just yet... I've never seen a Zen-modded Dracolich in action, but anything stronger than the VQ I did see would be very scary indeed.

Here's your chance! (I hope Chris and Jeff don't mind.) I seem to still have the last turn of the latest game... The Draco frags 3 bane lords two of which have anti-undead gear at Resting Heights, all the while being pestered by imps: no mean feat! I'd say strength 39 armor negating AOE attack is pretty sweet, even when compared to a VQ. And 400+ hps don't hurt either http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif The password is 'eero'

The VQ needs a lot of research and equipment and costs like all hell. Once you go the equipment-route you're better off with a cheaper chassis that preferably doesn't have the vulnerabilities either, IMO. Immortality is best when it can be used with gusto: lobbed at enemies and hoping that the dude causes at least some damage! If you need to forge 50 gems worth of equipment every time your SC bites the dust it tends to limit it's effectiveness.

Don't get me wrong, a VQ with enough magic is really, really sweet, but point-for-point it is nowhere near Zen-modded Dracolich, in my opinion. The Draco I used had dominion 10; order, sloth, cold 3; misfortune, magic 2; death 1. You can't get even close with a VQ of the same destructive capacity.

Bluebird

May 6th, 2005, 09:23 AM

Hmm ... seems everybody has uploaded. Time to press the button, right?

Ironhawk

May 6th, 2005, 02:16 PM

I dont understand why your opponents bothered with Bane Lords? A handful of shamans casting Magic Duel will kill the Carrion Dragon regardless of hp, conditions, etc.

Jurri

May 6th, 2005, 02:49 PM

Don't forget the Dracolich is firstly immortal, so it will still inflict losses for free even if it only kills a couple of shamans before dying. Secondly it's S5 in Bog Mummy form, so once a dueling squad appears it just needs to teleport on top of them with a helmet and a pearl to duel 'em to death the following turn. That is to say, it boils down to tactics, with the immortal guy having the option of trying as many times as it takes and having the mobility advantage, to boot. So unless you have cheap national astral mages, no, I don't think magic duel is the answer.

Ironhawk

May 6th, 2005, 03:29 PM

Ah, immortality, yeah I forgot about that.

BTW, didnt they point out in a recent thread that boosters and pearls have no effect on magic duel outcomes?

Jurri

May 6th, 2005, 04:37 PM

Hehe, the immortal part was why it was being compared to the VQ in the first place... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

And of course you're right, good ol' Alneyan did indeed test the thing and most stuff apparently doesn't have an effect.

PashaDawg

May 6th, 2005, 06:59 PM

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rant.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rant.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rant.gif Well, GEEEZ, Jurri. STOP KEEPING US IN SUSPENSE!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rant.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rant.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rant.gif

/threads/images/Graemlins/PointRight.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/PointRight.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/PointRight.gif Tell us how YOU would defeat the Dracolich!

... or do you have no idea!?! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

PashaDawg

May 6th, 2005, 07:03 PM

Bluebird said:
Hmm ... seems everybody has uploaded. Time to press the button, right?

YES! PUSH - THE - BUTTON!!!

/threads/images/Graemlins/Clock.gif -4- /threads/images/Graemlins/Dagger.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Dagger.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Dagger.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Dagger.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Dagger.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Dagger.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Dagger.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Dagger.gif

Jurri

May 6th, 2005, 08:01 PM

Hey, we are on the move already! Better do your turns quick before the Dracolich comes and eats you http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

About how to defeat it, well, that depends on the nation http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif But you knew I was gonna say that, didn't ya? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif I guess the convenient way to dispose of it would be dominion pushing. If it comes out of it's dominion then kill it and the problem is solved, if not just take the provinces one at a time once they are out of his dominion. Of course this assumes that you are capable of pushing dominion, which certainly would be hard at least against the build and strategy I used.

Another option is to rush the capital with all you've got and hope it's enough. It might well be if you for example have your own pretender capable of fragging the Draco. (For example a high-fire Moloch with herald lances http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif) Risky business.

Baically you need some sort of an edge over the nation you're facing, be it in research, gem income, armies or just better tactics or more friends. This holds true for all encounters, not just the Dracolich, right? It is definitely a very powerful option for Jotunheim, but I don't think it's unbeatable, since nothing is. (Yah, before you say it, Norfleet is beatable by someone using even more cheats, right? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif) It may very well be too good for its cost, though, at least I think so. I didn't mean to hide my opinion the matter... And, frankly, I don't think I'm any more capable of beating the Draco than any of ya. In fact you guys have more experience in fighting it than I http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Anyway, this game the Draco won't be fragging anyone so please don't gang up on me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

quantum_mechani

May 6th, 2005, 08:32 PM

Well, as someone who has lost games when playing Dracolichs, and as the person who lobbied Zen for making them immortal in the first place, I have a bit different perspective. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif
I don't know if you were using Zen's scales or not, but if so, once you spend 125 on the chassis, 100s of points on dominion, and 100s more on getting astral to a level where a duel is not super easy to lose, your income is starting to look really bad. Considering that supply is big issue for Jotuns, death is a problem, as is sloth if you want to use their great national troops. Magic you don't want less than 3, and you will not want to trash both order and luck. So, it seems to me, you will be paying for the power you get.

Aku

May 6th, 2005, 09:25 PM

my first turn is in!

CUnknown

May 6th, 2005, 10:04 PM

It's not anywhere near as expensive as it should be, Quantum. the Dracolich is way overpowered.

In the battle I faught with Jurri, if it was a VQ, there would have been no problem and I wouldn't have taken many losses. But the Dracolich has 300+ hp, so it was able to stand up to my flambeau-wielding bane lords, and with some help of a conveniently placed castle, it eventually won the battle.

Of course even if it had lost, it'd be there again the next turn. Same with the VQ, sure, but the VQ is just so much easier to beat, seeing as it doesn't even have 100 hps, right? That's a one-shot kill with a flambeau, problem solved.

quantum_mechani

May 6th, 2005, 10:44 PM

CUnknown said:
It's not anywhere near as expensive as it should be, Quantum. the Dracolich is way overpowered.

In the battle I faught with Jurri, if it was a VQ, there would have been no problem and I wouldn't have taken many losses. But the Dracolich has 300+ hp, so it was able to stand up to my flambeau-wielding bane lords, and with some help of a conveniently placed castle, it eventually won the battle.

Of course even if it had lost, it'd be there again the next turn. Same with the VQ, sure, but the VQ is just so much easier to beat, seeing as it doesn't even have 100 hps, right? That's a one-shot kill with a flambeau, problem solved.

It is much like Miasma C'tis, they are powerful, but dominion is everything. If you have strong dominion, they are suddenly quite vulnerable on the offensive. And while conquering them is a pain, if you can contain the dominion, the horrible scales they need means they can be worn down.

If you are truly convinced of thier power, we could try a duel sometime where you take the dracolich.

CUnknown

May 6th, 2005, 11:30 PM

I was just pointing out that they are overpowered, Quantum. You can't seriously argue that a VQ is on the same level of power, even as powerful as they are. The HP thing sort of pushes it over the edge.

Oh, and your scales aren't that bad at all, really, even with a high dominion.

RonD

May 6th, 2005, 11:33 PM

Hmm - I can't play my turn. I get the "select nation" screen; I select Pythium; I enter my password; the client downloads a little bit (probably enough for a turn 0 .trn file), but nothing happens - just black in the dom2 window. No new folder under dom2.

I tried a different password, and I do get "wrong password" then, so its not just that I forgot my password already http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Do I have the right map file? I have "Karan by Targa - 162 Provinces". Is "Kingdom of Karan" something different?

CUnknown

May 6th, 2005, 11:38 PM

That should be the right map, RonD. Not sure what to say...

I know there are multiple Karan maps, though. Maybe you have a different version?

www.dominions-2.org/files.htm (http://www.dominions-2.org/files.htm)

Go here and download Kingdom of Karan by Targa, that is the one I am using.

quantum_mechani

May 6th, 2005, 11:44 PM

CUnknown said:
I was just pointing out that they are overpowered, Quantum. You can't seriously argue that a VQ is on the same level of power, even as powerful as they are.

I'm afraid that is exactly what I am arguing. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

Though, I would not be opposed to them going to 150 points, same as the VQ.

PashaDawg

May 7th, 2005, 12:07 AM

Arco Turn's in! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

Aku

May 7th, 2005, 07:04 AM

RonD are you on the current patch 2.16 also?

RonD

May 7th, 2005, 08:46 AM

I re-downloaded the map using the link CU provided (it looks to be the same file, anyway). I am using 2.16 (I also tried connecting with 2.15 - same result). I did install the 7.51 SC mod. The other game I'm in is working fine, including downloading a new turn. I shut down the firewall - same result.

I could try it on a different computer, but not until Monday.

It would appear that I am the only one having this issue. Unless someone has another idea, you may just have to restart the game without me.

RonD

May 7th, 2005, 09:12 AM

What is the exact name of the folder for this game? I can create it manually, and see if the .trn file will land there.

PashaDawg

May 7th, 2005, 09:23 AM

RonD ---> InvisSwarm3

RonD

May 7th, 2005, 09:25 AM

Thanks, Pasha. Unfortunately - that didn't work.

PashaDawg

May 7th, 2005, 11:00 AM

You could try starting a thread on the general Dominions discussion page. Maybe someone there would know how to solve your problem. <crossing fingers>

RonD

May 7th, 2005, 02:03 PM

I did already put a post in the bugs thread - presumably folks who are likely to know will read that.

RonD

May 7th, 2005, 02:07 PM

Could it be as simple as the pythium.trn file being corrupted? Can the first .trn file be regenerated without making everyone upload their pretenders? (which you will all have to do if I have to drop out because of this, but I'd hate to make everyone have to do it *twice* more if that doesn't solve it.

PashaDawg

May 7th, 2005, 03:06 PM

You might want to start your own thread, because it will probably get more notice. Just my 3 cents.

Aku

May 7th, 2005, 03:07 PM

RonD I see you logged into Pythium when I went to see if new turn was hosted yet just now and it shows you there. Is it that you cant just enter inside your turn but can log into the server or have you fixed the problem?

RonD

May 7th, 2005, 04:23 PM

Well, then maybe this is just the 1st-turn version of the "waiting for game info" network bug. I have tried opening 6 or 8 dom2 windows (which sometimes lets you play a turn when hit by that bug), but it didn't work either. In any case, a simple server reset usually clears that up.

CU - could you please restart the server and post here after you do? Thanks.

CUnknown

May 7th, 2005, 05:32 PM

Server restarted.

RonD

May 7th, 2005, 08:49 PM

Thanks.

But - that didn't work either.

No point in making everyone sit around while we hope for a new idea, so go ahead and restart the game without me.

CUnknown

May 8th, 2005, 03:31 AM

I think I will restart the game. I'd rather have a fresh start than to have an AI already.

Sigh.

Re-upload pretenders. Again.

jeffr

May 8th, 2005, 11:43 AM

ok, Pan uploaded.

Aku

May 8th, 2005, 02:11 PM

abysia uploaded

Ironhawk

May 8th, 2005, 04:00 PM

Man uploaded

quantum_mechani

May 8th, 2005, 04:14 PM

Mackaka uploaded.

CUnknown

May 8th, 2005, 05:05 PM

Started again!

Aku

May 8th, 2005, 07:28 PM

delete old game also so it starts again for yourself

CUnknown

May 9th, 2005, 12:06 AM

Missing C'tis and Man's turns, then we will start on a 24-h quickhost schedule.

Ironhawk

May 9th, 2005, 12:25 AM

Didnt realize the game had restarted quite so quickly. Man is in now

Resok

May 9th, 2005, 03:23 AM

Crap, lost my first turn... ah well...

Was the last one to upload (was out all day doing mother's day stuff) and it automatically uploaded my old turn 1 file... which it then rejected as "stale turn" since it was from another game.

Ah well... 1 turn lost...

Resok

Boron

May 10th, 2005, 06:50 AM

Is the server down?

PashaDawg

May 10th, 2005, 08:29 AM

I cannot connect either.

Ironhawk

May 10th, 2005, 02:01 PM

I just tried to check the turn status as well. Connection failed.

quantum_mechani

May 10th, 2005, 02:52 PM

Same here.

CUnknown

May 10th, 2005, 09:40 PM

Try again, and let me know if it works.

quantum_mechani

May 10th, 2005, 11:03 PM

Working now, for me anyway.

Boron

May 11th, 2005, 11:41 AM

New turn is up.

Jurri

May 11th, 2005, 01:20 PM

'ey, why's this thread so quiet? Pasha, sing for us, please! Is that really a Shedu you're using or is it just a jedi mind-trick? 'Cause Shedu rocks!

PashaDawg

May 11th, 2005, 04:00 PM

Gosh - - - I gotta admit... I can't keep all my different games straight. Eeek. I think I am in 4 games... I think.

Yup... 'Tis a Shedu. He flies. He's got mega hit points. He casts spells. And, his soft but trim fur coat is luminescent. Oh, his face is very handsome and turns many heads when he enters a room (or a province). He can scratch his ear with his hind leg, and he can lick his own... um.. never mind. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

CUnknown

May 11th, 2005, 05:16 PM

You will all die at the hands of your Ulmish Overlord! Bwhahaha!!!!

Jurri

May 11th, 2005, 05:20 PM

I've got a better deal to offer: spend eternity polishing my tentacle!

PashaDawg

May 11th, 2005, 05:36 PM

You lurking in the water, Jurri?

And, the Ulmish tin cans are so last-year compared to the stylish Pasha-Du.

Jurri

May 11th, 2005, 06:01 PM

No, silly, I'm lurking under your bed.

Ironhawk

May 11th, 2005, 06:25 PM

I was able to connect last night (but the turn still wasnt up), but I am not able to connect now.

Aku

May 11th, 2005, 06:34 PM

I think our host's connection went down because he normally is always on msn and hes offline now which is odd for him. I am sure he will have it back up when he gets home.

quantum_mechani

May 11th, 2005, 07:10 PM

PashaDawg said:
Eeek. I think I am in 4 games... I think.

I'll see your 4 games and raise you one (it was 6 earlier this month...). http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

Ironhawk

May 11th, 2005, 09:59 PM

Whats the host's MSN id? What are all your MSN (or whatever IM client you use) ids?

Mine is:

hawksars at hotmail dot com

Aku

May 11th, 2005, 10:17 PM

i am korak81@hotmail.com

Boron

May 11th, 2005, 10:25 PM

My msn is gerhard dot goeth at web dot de

PashaDawg

May 11th, 2005, 11:21 PM

I currently have no IM stuff in my life, but you can email me at whscom <AT> maine DOT rr DOT com.

CUnknown

May 12th, 2005, 12:50 AM

My MSN is dowdcc<AT>yahoo<dot>com

The server is back up now, I'm not sure what happened.

Saber Cherry

May 12th, 2005, 03:20 AM

Ahh!!! Never post your exact email address in a public forum! Do it like Pasha did, so bots cannot read it.

Jurri - you're a scary guy... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

I've got a better deal to offer: spend eternity polishing my tentacle!

You lurking in the water, Jurri?

No, silly, I'm lurking under your bed.

Jurri

May 12th, 2005, 05:31 AM

Phear me, peons! I may be creepy but at least I'm consistent http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif

I don't have an IM currently, email is jurri (at) luukku (dot) com. But everyone hates me anyway so I guess it's kinda moot http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

PashaDawg

May 12th, 2005, 09:11 AM

We hate you because you're beautiful.

Bluebird

May 12th, 2005, 08:46 PM

Can't reach the server again - any problems there or is it just me. Will try again tomorrow ...

jeffr

May 12th, 2005, 08:50 PM

I just tried and can't connect either. It will probably be fixed in a few hours.

PashaDawg

May 12th, 2005, 09:56 PM

I cannot connect.

CUnknown

May 12th, 2005, 10:01 PM

Sorry guys, having computer troubles. It's back up now, I can't guarentee it will be stable though.

CUnknown

May 12th, 2005, 10:17 PM

Okay, seems to be better now! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

PashaDawg

May 12th, 2005, 10:28 PM

Worked for me!

Bluebird

May 13th, 2005, 05:06 AM

Me Too ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

jeffr

May 13th, 2005, 09:12 PM

PM seems to not be functioning at the moment.

So, CUnknown: ok

jeffr

May 13th, 2005, 10:23 PM

I was the last to play my turn, so a new turn is up.

Jurri

May 14th, 2005, 01:06 AM

jeffr said:
PM seems to not be functioning at the moment.

So, CUnknown: ok

Ooh, an open conspiracy! I want in!

jeffr

May 14th, 2005, 11:41 AM

No, nothing as good as that http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif He simply wanted some nature gems.

CUnknown

May 14th, 2005, 02:55 PM

Oh, you're a bad liar Jeffr!

It's really our secret conspiracy to dominate the WORLD!!! Starting with Ryleh. Can centaurs breathe water? No? Um...Maybe the master smiths can forge SCUBA gear?

Jurri

May 15th, 2005, 09:18 PM

Giving it some thought, that, too, is one of the issues affected by the combination of mods we use. Scuba gear, that is. Since the zen scale mod increases the available gold, and the Cherry mod cuts down on infantry costs it stands to reason that the armies fielded are larger than in standard. However, the scuba-stuff remains the same, thus making it costlier to mount proportionately as large underwater-assaults as before.

I'm not complaining http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif But I ain't jumping in joy either, since it's usually SCs that make the entry anyway. So this may just be an irrelevant observation. Oh well, keeps the thread alive http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif This thread needs more smack (and not the narcotic kind), isn't anyone warring anywhere?

CUnknown

May 15th, 2005, 09:40 PM

Oh there's some warring going on alright. But also a lot of peace-love-hippies too. I personally want everyone to know that I love you all, and would never even think about harming you. The Empire of Ulm is peaceful and has nothing but happy happy love for everyone.

All that "dominating the world" stuff in my last post was just a silly joke! We're not secretly plotting or amassing large armies of quick death and horrible destruction. Honest! We're not!

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

PashaDawg

May 15th, 2005, 10:57 PM

Ah... what silly chattering I hear from the Ulmish tin cans?

<Pasha-Du, scratching ear with hind leg with noble repose while studying a map of the world to his own luminescence.>

Jurri

May 16th, 2005, 06:23 AM

I love you too, CU! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/heart.gif Friends 4ever! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/heart.gif

PashaDawg

May 16th, 2005, 08:24 AM

Wow... /threads/images/Graemlins/Teddy.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Teddy.gif Hands across the Ocean!! I am getting choked up... /threads/images/Graemlins/Teddy.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Teddy.gif or is it that I am about to choke something up... /threads/images/Graemlins/Cold.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Envy.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rant.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/Sick.gif

jeffr

May 16th, 2005, 05:38 PM

A new turn is up.

Dragons seem to be popular.

Boron

May 17th, 2005, 09:03 AM

Only Aku and Jeffr left.

jeffr

May 17th, 2005, 10:56 AM

I'll be able to play my turn around 7 or 8 EST tonight.

Aku

May 17th, 2005, 11:54 AM

ok i did my turn, slept late

jeffr

May 17th, 2005, 12:55 PM

I did my turn, so a new turn is up.

Damn, I misread what provinces were next to each other on the map.

CUnknown

May 17th, 2005, 04:09 PM

Wow, we're burning through the turns.

Rumors from the Kingdom of Ulm:

Amid great rejoycing, Ulmish peasants unwrap another waterproof crate sent from the Deep Ones themselves. A great festival ensues, with the common folk getting high off reef keef and generally having a grand old time. Some adventurous and extremely stoned Ulmish women are seen "taking the plunge" to visit the Deep Ones, but aren't seen from again. There is some talk of the blood-hungry emperor who rules the kingdom to the north with an iron fist, but this does little to dampen the mood of the peasants on this fine day. They think, "I'm sure the great and diplomatic Sorceress will be able to ensure peace with them. We have nothing to fear!"

An old Master of the Smith shakes his head as he leaves the festival on his way back to the forge. "These Ulmish citizens are lazy and weak. And what is this hippy peace nonsense?? Why, back in my day Ulm didn't fear anyone. Back in my day, you couldn't even hear yourself think for all the hammers ringing out from the forge, crafting armors and weapons of steel. Thinking is definitely overrated. I must train as many smiths as I can, to bring back the glory of the old days. The Sorceress will need our steel soon enough, I'd wager.

Ironhawk

May 17th, 2005, 05:24 PM

The Sidhe would also like to point out that rumors of our destruction at the hands of Pangaea are greatly overstated. We still mock them from over the walls of our capital. It appears that the tree-hugging Pangaeans do not understand how to operate seige machinery http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Jurri

May 17th, 2005, 07:46 PM

That's what you get for starting next to a VERY strong player http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif Damn, that jeffr is a machine! I'll send you a case of reef-keef so you won't feel a thing when the time comes. /threads/images/Graemlins/icon23.gif

CU: Any chance of getting that hawt Sorceress-chick to take the plunge? Also, could ya send a smith over to fix the frigging Void Gate, it's been eating squids like bread!

PashaDawg

May 17th, 2005, 07:50 PM

New turn up!

jeffr

May 17th, 2005, 11:19 PM

Thanks so much for the compliment, Jurri http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif But I seem to have a bug infestation at the moment that is delaying my calling on the false greenies. Perhaps I should just focus on siege operations although I don't seem to be very good at it.

Oh, and anyone else that wants some mercenary help, by all means feel free.

Boron

May 18th, 2005, 09:47 AM

The Mictlans remembered the tradions and customs of their ancestors, the Aztecs and Mayas.
Inspired by Tales of great ancient Indian Warriors they want to lead their nation now after their shining example.
An old Tale about paradisiac living space in the west was recalled and some newly formed Mictlan warbands moved westwards to find this living space.
What they found was a big shock:
The once paradisiac grounds are ravaged by evil lizard beings who honor a strange Cult named Miasma.
This defilement of holy Mictlan ground could not be tolerated. All Mictlans praised the great Ratte when he proclaimed a crusade to annilihate the foul lizard beings.
Now our warriorhordes are on the march and the advance guard has already conquered the suburbs of the ctis capitol.
Only their big citadel still stands.
But it will be only a matter of time until this last stronghold of ctis will fall. It won't become our Minas Tirith. Evil always loses ahem wins http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif.

Jurri

May 19th, 2005, 01:43 PM

The big Rat? Scaaary... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

CUnknown

May 19th, 2005, 05:54 PM

Dude, he is scary!! I fear the Ratte!!!

I'm glad he's not coming after me, tin can men are shaking in their little tin boots!

PashaDawg

May 19th, 2005, 07:25 PM

The Wise Shedu of Arco made peace with the Scary Blood Rat early on. Whew!

Bluebird

May 20th, 2005, 08:37 AM

I will be away over the weekend an only return Monday morning. Could we please go to a longer hosting time over the weekend?

Boron

May 20th, 2005, 09:08 AM

Sorry about your dead god Bluebird.

CUnknown

May 20th, 2005, 11:57 AM

Sure, I'll change it to 48-h host over the weekend.

Bluebird

May 20th, 2005, 12:06 PM

Boron said:
Sorry about your dead god Bluebird.

Sh*t happens ... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

CUnknown

May 20th, 2005, 01:00 PM

I'm going to turn off my computer, I hear lightning outside.

If you can't connect, that would be the reason why.

CUnknown

May 20th, 2005, 08:07 PM

The server is back up.

Ironhawk

May 22nd, 2005, 02:32 AM

Ooftah!! You lucked out Jeff http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif By all rights I should have mopped the floor with that few centaurs. But luck was with you and you rocked my Moloch. Oh well! The resurgence of the Sidhe was cut brutally short.

Good luck to everyone! Wish I could have played longer with yall. Grab me for the next game!

Jurri

May 22nd, 2005, 11:27 AM

Thanks, Ironhawk, for the game! I don't have the words to describe the awesomeness of jeffr and his centaurs anymore; I had hoped they were as good as they were last time because of the quickened start but I guess it was not so. I just hope he isn't playing water cult http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

jeffr

May 22nd, 2005, 06:17 PM

Good game, Ironhawk http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

You burned half my army and the only reason I was probably able to hang around was because of Fanaticism.

Jurri is a master diplomat and he is just trying to deflect attention from his war machine. I'm sure he is sitting back researching, collecting gems and laughing at us while we all beat the crap out of each other. Kill the fish !!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Jurri

May 22nd, 2005, 06:53 PM

Not the fish! Please, anyone but the fish!

CUnknown

May 23rd, 2005, 12:58 AM

Anyone for fried fish sticks? Fillet-o-fish, possibly?

jeffr

May 23rd, 2005, 08:38 PM

Well, IronHawk's Moloch killed one half of my centaur army during the battle of Man and a (alarmingly small) group of regenerating Black Hunters just destroyed the other half. That's not good. Time for plan B, once I figure out what that is.

Ummm, by the way, did anyone notice the size of Mictlan's force paying their respects to C'tis? That's not good, either.

Boron

May 23rd, 2005, 08:57 PM

jeffr said:
Ummm, by the way, did anyone notice the size of Mictlan's force paying their respects to C'tis? That's not good, either.

That is good because Ctis is Miasma.
That is almost as nasty as AE/SG Ermor.

So thank me for cleaning the world from that scum for you http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

jeffr

May 23rd, 2005, 10:18 PM

Ah. Ok, thanks http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

PashaDawg

May 23rd, 2005, 10:20 PM

Thanks, Boron. You're a pal! /threads/images/Graemlins/icon44.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/icon44.gif

Resok

May 24th, 2005, 04:57 PM

Hahah, guess I learn the hard way for my first multiplayer game that C'tis Miasma is dispised. Is there any particular reason for this? It's not like the dominion kills population, just diseases non-cold blooded who enter it and raises/lowers income. Is that the main reasoning? Not trying to worm my way out of a defeat by any means just curious.

Also... has the server been up at all during the weekend? Every time I try to connect to it I get connection failed. Late last week I was getting the same thing too so I'm guessing I have a number of stale turns saved up. Ah well, was losing anyway. Thanks for the game guys... I'll keep trying to put up a fight but not being able to connect has made this difficult. The times I usually connect (only time I have to play) are around 10pm-midnight range, Pacific time.

Resok

Ironhawk

May 24th, 2005, 05:47 PM

Resok, I had some trouble connecting to this server too. But for some reason it had to do with the shortcut I was using to run it? I had a shortcut with the IP built in so I didnt have to type it. But like 10% of the time it wouldnt work. Then I would just launch dom2 normally and type in the IP/Port and it would work fine. Wierdnes...

Resok

May 24th, 2005, 06:35 PM

Hmm... well I never used the shortcut, I manually entered in the IP each time so far just to make sure I had it right. The IP hasn't changed has it? I don't remember seeing any posts that indicated it had.

Either way, I'll try again when I get home tonight. At work right now...

Resok

Jurri

May 24th, 2005, 06:59 PM

For what it's worth, I don't hate you (much http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif), Resok! You have a big castle, so fight the power! The rat can't touch you.

And what's this about jeffr getting a beating? Wouldn't that be a first of some kind... Although quantum is damn slick too. Heck, I think I'm going to sit this one out just to see which wins http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Gonna make some popcorn and enjoy the show, yes I will!

Bluebird

May 25th, 2005, 12:52 PM

Darn - I have to do it again over this weekend, including Thursday and Friday: I am away to Poland and cannot play. Sorry for the delay I am causing, but this should be the last delay for the next weeks.

So, if possible please halt his game over the next couple of days. I will be back on Sunday evening (CEST).

Resok

May 25th, 2005, 12:53 PM

Hahah, thanks.

Still can't connect... tried last night and again a few moments ago. Suppose it's possible there's a router down between us somewhere that's messing up the connection. Anyone else playing from USA, West coast area?

Anyway, thanks for the game guys... wish I could still connect and try to put up a fight.

Resok

Resok

May 26th, 2005, 03:16 PM

Go ahead and change me to AI or something at least. I still have been unable to connect to the game server (can't ping it either). All my other 'net functions work just fine... I should run a tracert to the server and see where I'm getting stuck at. I'll do that tonight.

Anyway... host, go ahead and change me to AI... it's better than completely stale turns for the last week and a half. That is if I'm not annihilated already, in which case it's a moot point.

Resok

CUnknown

May 26th, 2005, 04:09 PM

Um..already done, Resok. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

I'm sorry to do it without consulting you, I know it's not your fault for having staled.

CUnknown

May 26th, 2005, 08:15 PM

I am going away for the weekend.

I'm going to take my turn either tonight or tomorrow (whenever it comes up), and then set the server to like 300 hour quickhost. You guys can take one more turn after that and then it will bog down for a while until I come back on wednesday.

Sorry!

If anyone else is planning a vacation, we can do the same thing. It would suck to stale like 4 times in a row or something.

The Panther

May 26th, 2005, 09:02 PM

Resok said:
Hahah, guess I learn the hard way for my first multiplayer game that C'tis Miasma is dispised. Is there any particular reason for this? It's not like the dominion kills population, just diseases non-cold blooded who enter it and raises/lowers income. Is that the main reasoning? Not trying to worm my way out of a defeat by any means just curious.
Resok

One of my early MP games, I played Miasma. I started in the middle of the map (Karan) and didn't really know what I was doing. A couple of neighbors went AI and I befrended a couple others. I started a war with Caelum, who was a veteran player and the most powerful nation at the time.

He launched a blitz into my territory, burned down some temples that I (as a newbie) built without a fort. His guys became diseased and I eventually caught and killed the flying army. After losing 6 mages mostly to the disease, he was obviously loath to send any more seraphs into my pioson lands, so we agreed on peace that lasted maybe for another 50 turns. He put in temples everywhere to prevent the spread of my dominion into his territory. When we fought next, he used disease immune troops mostly, which take a while to research up to.

The upshot was that Caelum was defeated before I was! I even came in second out of 11 players, lasting nearly 150 turns before resigning, and that was like my third MP game ever. I became a huge fan of Miasma. They have the best of the three types of sauromancers because all marshmasters have the ability to cast quickness and clam hoarding is so easy to do.

I would have to say that diplomacy is the key to playing that theme. You must agree to let your neighbors who you want peace with build temples all along your border to prevent the dominion spread.

You also want to make it very costly for your neighbor to take you out. Don't EVER take the watch tower as Miasma. The Hill Fortress seems perefectly designed for this theme with its 250 defense and only 3 turns/ 450 gold to build. Anyone seiging that thing will have all troops diseased long before the castle storm. Build some city guards in every fortress, as each one counts as a plus 1 defense every turn they hold out! Your opponent may still kill you, but they will be hurting so bad that their other neighbors may swoop in to take advantage. Again, diplomacy is the key. Like, for instance, you can tell the neighbor of whomever is killing you that all his troops are diseased and he is ripe for the picking! You may find him suing for peace when he gets hit from the backside.

Also, you had the misfortune of having a seasoned veteran like Boron as your neighbor, intent on annexing your territory. In your first MP game, you could have taken any race or any theme and still died. Boron just used the Miasma as an excuse!

Shame on Boron, picking on the newbie! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/firedevil.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif

PashaDawg

May 26th, 2005, 11:38 PM

Hmmmm... good advice, Panther! Now... let me write that down for future reference...

MEMO TO SELF: Miasma + Hill Fortress = Good.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

Resok

May 27th, 2005, 12:46 AM

Hahah... yeah... that's why I picked Citidel actually. Miasma is what I always play in single-player as C'tis... it's alot of fun.

Yeah... Boron hit me hard while I was attacking Tien'Chi. I was going for early harrassment there and he swept in with about 30 I think Jaguar warriors with fire 9 blessing. Watching a few fights it didn't seem they got diseased at all, perhaps due to the 1 regen added to them from Cherry's mod. Even if they did get diseased they wouldn't die from it also... though they would get afflictions anyway.

Either way, it was a perfect attack force against Miasma early game. I had been planning on sweeping in my main army + pretender the turn after I started staleing... but ah well lol Woulda been a fun fight, was curious how I would have faired against the flaming jaguar army.

Resok

Aku

May 28th, 2005, 04:45 AM

server down?

PashaDawg

May 28th, 2005, 06:26 AM

Yup... I think so. Can't connect.

Bluebird

May 30th, 2005, 10:42 AM

Me, too - so it is not only on your side of the big pond ;-)

Bluebird

May 31st, 2005, 06:13 AM

I still cannot connect ... what has happened?

Jurri

May 31st, 2005, 06:18 AM

Chris is gone until tomorrow, so patience!

CUnknown said:
I am going away for the weekend.

I'm going to take my turn either tonight or tomorrow (whenever it comes up), and then set the server to like 300 hour quickhost. You guys can take one more turn after that and then it will bog down for a while until I come back on wednesday.

Aku

May 31st, 2005, 02:22 PM

oops must of missed that post lol

CUnknown

June 1st, 2005, 08:22 PM

Server's back up.

Wow, it must have gone out like the same day I left, or maybe the day after. That sucks. Sorry everyone. Back up now though!

Aku

June 1st, 2005, 08:40 PM

np Chris, good to have you back

Boron

June 2nd, 2005, 09:26 AM

Chris is the IP still the same?
Then the server is down again.

Hopefully you enjoyed your holidays http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

Jurri

June 2nd, 2005, 09:38 AM

I can connect just fine. 68.190.44.112, port 2000.

PashaDawg

June 2nd, 2005, 09:50 AM

I can connect, too.

Boron

June 2nd, 2005, 01:59 PM

Weird i still can't connect.
I always get the connection failed msg after 30 seconds.

CUnknown

June 2nd, 2005, 08:46 PM

Maybe the "attempt to connect--load up another Dom2 window--connect for real" trick would work, Boron?

Or maybe you typed it in using the keypad? (sometimes that doesn't work for some odd reason, I remember you saying)

I'm not sure what the problem could be otherwise.

CUnknown

June 2nd, 2005, 11:29 PM

New turn is up. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

PashaDawg

June 3rd, 2005, 09:39 AM

Ugh! I hate to ask... but I am leaving tonight (Friday) to visit a friend until Sunday night. Any way the game turns could be stretched out a bit?

Boron

June 3rd, 2005, 10:26 AM

CUnknown said:
Or maybe you typed it in using the keypad? (sometimes that doesn't work for some odd reason, I remember you saying)

I must have accidently used the numpad http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/confused.gif.
At least it works fine again now and i can keep spreading the violence with my poor mictlans http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

CUnknown

June 3rd, 2005, 09:44 PM

Sure Pasha, I'll set the host to 48-h quickhost as soon as I get home.

PashaDawg

June 5th, 2005, 07:26 PM

I am back and will log onto the server now.

Thank you.

jeffr

June 7th, 2005, 12:24 AM

I was the last to take my turn, so a new turn is up.

CUnknown

June 9th, 2005, 11:43 AM

Changed back to 24-h host. If anyone has a huge problem with this, I'll change it back to 48. I'm getting impatient for turnz!

Boron

June 9th, 2005, 01:28 PM

CUnknown said:
Changed back to 24-h host. If anyone has a huge problem with this, I'll change it back to 48. I'm getting impatient for turnz!

Finally http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif.
If you wouldn't have done that i would have asked you for that today. Thank you very much http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

CUnknown

June 10th, 2005, 01:19 AM

Blah, I don't want QM to stale. I'll extend the deadline at least until morning, maybe he hasn't read this thread today.

jeffr

June 11th, 2005, 01:54 PM

I'll be away from Saturday afternoon EST to Monday late afternoon/evening. Machaka is the only one left who hasn't played his turn (10 hours to go). If Machaka plays his turn in the next few hours, I'll play mine before I go.

Otherwise, if you can, please extend the timer a bit and I'll play my turn as soon as I get back.

CUnknown

June 11th, 2005, 02:22 PM

Sure, Jeffr. I was thinking of force-hosting anyway. It's been over 24-hours, actually. Sorry QM!

Jurri

June 11th, 2005, 03:24 PM

Perhaps you should PM him or something, if you haven't already. Mebbe he has a reason for not following the thread.

jeffr

June 11th, 2005, 04:43 PM

I was able to take my turn.

quantum_mechani

June 12th, 2005, 12:01 AM

Well, seeing as it staled the turn my capital was stormed, I think i will go ahead and go AI.

A shame, I think I could have inflicted massive damage or even won if I had been able to script my mages. Anyway, good game.

Boron

June 12th, 2005, 08:05 AM

Done my turn, so there is a new turn http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

jeffr

June 13th, 2005, 08:15 PM

I'm back and I've taken my turn.

Quantum, you did inflicy heavy damage! I do wish you would have taken your turn and I look forward to playing with you again http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I think I had the advantage simply because I think Pan is the best early game nation. But your strategy took a heavy toll. Not to mention your surprise tactics! You took provinces to my Northwest that I didn't know that you had.

All the other nations (especially Yurri and his superior intellect: he is dangerous lads, watch him !!!!) will benefit because we spent our resources aganst each other.

So, once again QM, good game and I look forward to matching wits with you again http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Jurri

June 14th, 2005, 10:08 AM

Superior intellect... Made me laugh http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

But you sure seem to be on fire, jeffr! That's the second nation you off already, which is pretty incredible. I understand Mictlan took out C'tis and will soon kill T'ien C'hi, though, so I guess you're not alone for long in your heights. Still, Ulm has grabbed the most indies by a wide margin, which compensates a lot... This is a very interesting game, indeed! I only wish you weren't so awed by my notoriety http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif I feel like I need to work extra hard although at least three nations are doing better. It's all fun, though.

Oh, and a new turn!

CUnknown

June 14th, 2005, 11:45 AM

So modest Jurri!

I think you're doing extremely well. In fact, so well you really need to be put down. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

quantum_mechani

June 14th, 2005, 12:14 PM

Not to downplay jeffr skills, but I think the real reason for his victory was Cherry's modded centaurs. Before the mod, the centaurs were just fine, better than the majority of sacred troops. The light lance now means they can put down all but the finest SC pretenders, and countering with normal troops is quite futile. I would challenge anyone to try and beat 20 of them with a good bless with a force of equal gold cost, and level 4 or less research.

Jurri

June 14th, 2005, 01:16 PM

CU, whatever happened to our blossoming love? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rant.gif It was so sweet and pure, yet now it's but a bitter memory of spring.

QM: 1400 gold? I wager 466 militiamen would stand a chance http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Requires considerably more resources and leadership, though...

quantum_mechani

June 14th, 2005, 01:41 PM

Jurri said:

QM: 1400 gold? I wager 466 militiamen would stand a chance http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Requires considerably more resources and leadership, though...

Actually, I doubt 466 militia would do it, even assuming you could deal with the supply.

jeffr

June 14th, 2005, 02:50 PM

You know, I didn't even notice that the White Centaurs now had the light lance. I can't look at the game at the moment. Anybody know it's stats?

I did notice that the White Centaur now cost 15 resources instead of 11. That could possibly cause a problem and affect your scale and/or fortress decisions. I know I was burned by resource costs in one game where I took sloth 3 and the watch tower (common choices, at least prior to the scales mod).

But I never thought that Pan was overpowered. As a matter of fact, I thought most people considered Pan to be one of the weaker nations.

quantum_mechani

June 14th, 2005, 07:18 PM

jeffr said:
You know, I didn't even notice that the White Centaurs now had the light lance. I can't look at the game at the moment. Anybody know it's stats?

I did notice that the White Centaur now cost 15 resources instead of 11. That could possibly cause a problem and affect your scale and/or fortress decisions. I know I was burned by resource costs in one game where I took sloth 3 and the watch tower (common choices, at least prior to the scales mod).

But I never thought that Pan was overpowered. As a matter of fact, I thought most people considered Pan to be one of the weaker nations.

No, they are not overpowered, nor underpowered. But white centaurs were just fine without lance. With the lance, they are the best troops Pan can purchase, even with a minor bless. With a major bless, they are nigh on invincible for most nations at this stage of the game.

CUnknown

June 14th, 2005, 10:26 PM

Yeah, I didn't realize they added a lance to the centaurs. SWEET JESUS!

Pangea may not be overall one of the better races, but the white centaurs were never the problem. I remember fighting Jeffr's centaurs way back in InvisSwarm II, and they were vicious! With a lance, I would have just looked at my computer screen and cried.

PashaDawg

June 15th, 2005, 12:51 AM

Arco's wise scrying priestesses have recently taken notice of large armies of jaguar warriors massing on peaceful Arco's border with the Blood Empire of Mictlan. /threads/images/Graemlins/icon10.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/PointRight.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/icon12.gif

The Luminescent Shedu of Arco hopes that the Honorable Blood Emperor is not frowning with growing envy of the wonders found within Pasha's dominion. Surely, our long standing friendship should hold fast during these wicked times of war. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Peace.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Panda.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Peace.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Surely, he has studied his history and knows of a time when a foolish Pangean Fetid Smear of Rotting Filth dared attack his peaceful neighboring Great Spider Lord of Machaka, and was soon smote down to the floor of his own private abyss by the fury of said Spider Lord. <All lies in the press being duly refuted in said history texts studied by said Honorable Blood Emperor.> http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif <froth froth> http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif

Bluebird

June 15th, 2005, 02:45 AM

BTW - I am not dead yet http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Though I probably won't last much longer.

Damn, these Jaguar warriors are mean and I have not yet found a way to beat them. Specially with a 9 fire god. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif

So I am currenly sieged on my home castle, and will fall soon. So - so long and thanks for all the fish. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

quantum_mechani

June 15th, 2005, 03:12 AM

Bluebird said:

Damn, these Jaguar warriors are mean and I have not yet found a way to beat them. Specially with a 9 fire god. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif

Welcome to the club of people beaten by cherry's overpowered sacred units... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Bluebird

June 15th, 2005, 06:54 AM

Comforting to know that I am not alone. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Jurri

June 15th, 2005, 07:16 AM

Bluebird said:
so long and thanks for all the fish. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

What's this about the fish!? I'm scared, especially with that grinning visage of yours!

Boron

June 15th, 2005, 09:26 AM

quantum_mechani said:

Bluebird said:

Damn, these Jaguar warriors are mean and I have not yet found a way to beat them. Specially with a 9 fire god. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif

Welcome to the club of people beaten by cherry's overpowered sacred units... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Nah the Jaguars are not overpowered. I like the vanilla Jaguars seriously more then the new Cherry Jaguars http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

jeffr

June 15th, 2005, 11:40 AM

All this talk of overpowered sacred units! Pan now strikes fear into everybody's heart? Did the addition of the light lance turn the White Centaur into the new Ice Devil or Air Queen? That's a powerful lance indeed.

My thought is that Pangaea doesn't have much going for it except for the White Centaur. The Pan is a good unit, but very expensive. The light lance makes the White Centaur better. But overpowering? I think it's a good thing that an army of elite troops has a chance against a SC.

If Pan can't win the early game, then they have no shot at any part of the game. Soon magic will dominate and the White Centaur, while still being more valuable than other troops, perhaps, will be relegated to the back seat. The standard tactics of castling, summoning and SCs will dominate.

Or maybe not in this game? Massive Ghost Riders, Wrathful Skies, Artillery and SCs have been the bane of national armies before, but maybe Zen's mods have changed that. I hope so http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

quantum_mechani

June 15th, 2005, 03:36 PM

jeffr said:
All this talk of overpowered sacred units! Pan now strikes fear into everybody's heart? Did the addition of the light lance turn the White Centaur into the new Ice Devil or Air Queen? That's a powerful lance indeed.

My thought is that Pangaea doesn't have much going for it except for the White Centaur. The Pan is a good unit, but very expensive. The light lance makes the White Centaur better. But overpowering? I think it's a good thing that an army of elite troops has a chance against a SC.

If Pan can't win the early game, then they have no shot at any part of the game. Soon magic will dominate and the White Centaur, while still being more valuable than other troops, perhaps, will be relegated to the back seat. The standard tactics of castling, summoning and SCs will dominate.

Or maybe not in this game? Massive Ghost Riders, Wrathful Skies, Artillery and SCs have been the bane of national armies before, but maybe Zen's mods have changed that. I hope so http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

First of all, Pan has lots going for it besides the centaurs, my favorite nation in fact. I have played perfectly peaceful Pan early games and become a dominant power, many times. There is the maenad strategy, the dark vine strategy, and once you get mother oak many good uses for lots of nature gems crop up.

For comparison lets look at my black hunters. 125 gold, equal bless, yet they took out about 1 centaurs before dying, if they were lucky. Now you could say 'well that was just a bad counter'. Well, there are a good many more bad counters to them than any other unit I can think of. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

jeffr

June 15th, 2005, 04:00 PM

Oh, I agree that the White Centaur is among the best, if not the best sacred unit that I have seen. Better than your Black Hunter (although that unit is good). I based my strategy on them. They may not have a counter in the early game if they are used aggressively, although you destroyed many of them (as did Ironhawk, by the way). I didn't just roll over anybody (unfortunately http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif).

My goal was war from the outset. If you hadn't attacked me first, I was 50/50 on attacking you, but I would have attacked somebody. I would be the "anti-turtler" (no clams, fever fetishes, castles, etc.). I just find it more fun http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif But it hasn't proven (except once) to be ultimately successful.

My problem has generally been that this strategy loses it's luster in the mid game. Perhaps I'm just not very good, but I've found that I start to lose against Mages and SCs. In being so aggressive, I also spend resources on armies (and not castles) and am therefore an easy target for a nation that has sat back and researched. I also have a small gem income because I haven't bought many mages.

Jurri was able to easily beat up on me in the last game with a combination of Ghost Riders, Ice Devils and Tartarians (and some other stuff that I've forgotten, I'm sure - Air Queens probably).

CUnknown

June 15th, 2005, 04:46 PM

No way! QM, I have to object on this one.. The black hunters were -way- better unit for unit than the centaurs. Those things are -terrifying-. But, they are super-expensive if I remember right. They only took out maybe 1 centaur each before dying because they were always outnumbered like 5:1 (I saw like all those battles http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif). In fact, being outnumbered that badly, it's pretty awesome that they were able to do any damage, esp. with the lances.

No one is saying that you still wouldn't have beaten Man and Machaka anyway, Jeffr (unless QM is saying that?), even without the lances. But, the lances sure made things easier.

Aku

June 15th, 2005, 04:59 PM

Zens item mod with the nerf to life drain weapons and his magic mod makes things interesting of less sc's probably.

jeffr

June 15th, 2005, 05:15 PM

Yeah, CUnknown, I might have been a bit hasty in saying the White Centaur (70g, 15r) was better than the Black Hunter (125g, ?r). One on one it's not. The Black Hunter surprised me with how tough it was. I had never seen one before.

I did achieve a numerical advantage. Mainly because that is what I focused on to the detriment of other game factors. My scales are not set up for Einstein http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Ironhawk

June 15th, 2005, 05:16 PM

jeffr said:
Oh, I agree that the White Centaur is among the best, if not the best sacred unit that I have seen. Better than your Black Hunter (although that unit is good). I based my strategy on them. They may not have a counter in the early game if they are used aggressively, although you destroyed many of them (as did Ironhawk, by the way). I didn't just roll over anybody (unfortunately http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif).

For the record, the only thing that I found to be a workable counter to the Centaurs was powerful battlefield magic. Air would be great but Fire worked really well too. The trick is to get one-shot-one-kill (which is hard, since they have 20hp!), so that they dont go beserk and you have *some* chance of routing them.

Trying to fight them with regular (or even elite!!) troops is basically suicide. The only way I did any damage at my capitol was to just throw as much chaff at the centaurs as I could muster and then blast the hell out of them with Flares, Fire Darts, etc while they were tied up for a turn or two. In terms of later game magic, overland artillery spells wont be too useful since they have high HP. I'd once again bet on the chaff/spells combo. Tho centaurs might be vulnerable to GRs. And I found that jeffr staffs his armies very lightly with commanders. If you have assassins or assassin spells, use them. At the least you could knock out a blesser.

jeffr

June 15th, 2005, 05:28 PM

No hints, no hints http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Aku

June 15th, 2005, 05:55 PM

comon jeffr do your turn you are the last one and i need my crack lol

jeffr

June 15th, 2005, 06:00 PM

I'm not in front of my game computer, but I should be able to take my turn in a couple of hours.

PashaDawg

June 15th, 2005, 06:06 PM

Frickin' blessers!

quantum_mechani

June 15th, 2005, 06:53 PM

CUnknown said:
No way! QM, I have to object on this one.. The black hunters were -way- better unit for unit than the centaurs. Those things are -terrifying-. But, they are super-expensive if I remember right. They only took out maybe 1 centaur each before dying because they were always outnumbered like 5:1 (I saw like all those battles http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif). In fact, being outnumbered that badly, it's pretty awesome that they were able to do any damage, esp. with the lances.

No one is saying that you still wouldn't have beaten Man and Machaka anyway, Jeffr (unless QM is saying that?), even without the lances. But, the lances sure made things easier.

Yes, the spiders are slightly better than the modded centaurs, for a much a higher price. And yes, I think I could have beaten jeffr without to much truoble, were it not for the lances and the stale turns.

And the strategy is certainly more than beatable with ghost riders, late game SCs, ect.. In shepherds of creation 2 for example I have no doubt I can do in jeffr's centaur swarm,
but that is around turn 60. Note that this does not mean Pan cannot be powerful late game, it just requires a differnt strategy.

jeffr

June 15th, 2005, 08:59 PM

I've taken my turn, so a new turn is up.

Cainehill

June 16th, 2005, 02:19 AM

Don't think that it's so much that centaurs are so much better than various other sacred troops, so much as it is that Pangaea has a solid sacred troop where everything meshes synergistically with the nation.

Pan goes marvelously with a N9 pretender, and it has seemed to me that N9 is the most awesome blessing in the game, at least for solid troops. ( It isn't worth very much for, say, flagellants or other sacreds that are easy to kill. ) N4 may actually be the most cost effective blessing - +1 attack, armor, and damage, losing defense, and most experienced players will state that defense is not particularly important for troops. ( For commanders, especially SCs who will be fighting 1 vs 1 battles, things a re very different. )

More importantly, they get berserk, so a single troop can actually win the battle even after all other troops and commanders have routed. And with N9, regeneration both keeps them alive longer, and reduces the number of ailments they receive by 90% - sacred troops with 6 ailments aren't terribly useful.

So : White centaurs, Machakan hunters, Jotunheim's various sacreds, Marignon's paladins, Tien Chi's sacred cavalry, probably also Abysia's Lava Warriors and Atlantis's Mother Guards all become incredibly effective with N9 or even N4, and I may be leaving some out.

Most of the other blessings tend to be useful only on much more flimsy sacreds, ones that tend to die in hordes. (Water is also effective for most sacreds, but either requires vast hordes of cheap sacreds with a secondary blessing like F9, or the incredible sacred troops like Vans or Tuathans.) For instance : F9 - incredible on cheap sacreds, but most die like moths to missile weapons, any AoE spells such as Fireball, Orb Lightning that hit 1 or more squares, etc.

Does anyone rely on any blessings other than Nature, Fire, or Water to turn the game? I don't think so.... Okay, a high air blessing can minimize losses from missile weapons - but high armor troops don't suffer that much from missiles anyway, and being immune to missile weapons doesn't do anything when the foes barbarians and other hard-hitting melees troops attack - even militia and light infantry can wreak havok.

Death? I've tried a D10 blessing for an area of effect fear. Didn't work very well, even with Vanheim's Valkyries fearing the enemy archers. Maybe for a nation counting on swarms of incredibly cheap, weak sacred troops, effectively doubling the numbers on the field. Almost useless for the nations with sturdy sacred troops and commanders, simply because the reborn unit is 1/5 as good as the original. Astral : Nice for prophets, sacred mages, etc, but extra magic resistance and even avoiding the first attack doesn't help troops all that much. Blood : extra strength and a death curse that takes effect 1 in 100 times? Potentially useful for Mictlan, and for a nation that has a combination of blood magic and low strength/damage sacreds - ie, not often.

So, seems like one other blessing is potentially potent : earth. Even a lesser blessing allows the sacreds to last longer without being fatigued - not necessarily a huge blessing. But at E9, it's 4 fatigue restored a turn, and 4 armor. Once again - useless for most nations, whose sacred troops still die like flies when they have 4 armor instead of 0, or 7 instead of 3, but potentially valuably for sacred mages such as Pythium, Marignon, and Tien Chi - keeping them awake, and also helping to prevent them from dying to weenie missiles like shortbows and slings.

But Earth 9 seems especially valuable for a small handful of nations and troops, ones with high armor and preferably some way to heal wounds.

By way of explanations : Nations whose sacreds have low or medium armor protection receive medioce benefits from having the armor increased slightly. Simultaneously those troops with low armor don't tend to have as much of an issue with fatigue, rendering the extra fatigue recovery moot.

But : Nations whose troops already have a high armor rating tend to also quickly lose their fatigue. So Earth 9 both raises the armor to a point where most weapons bounce off, and delays the time when the troops are tired enough for all attacks to become armor piercing.

Still, a handful of nations and themes have sacred troops with 15 or higher starting armor protection, and correspondingly high encumbrances. With these, it becomes a question of which is more efffective : high berserking + regeneration, or additional armor + fatigue recovery.

Generally, the answer is : berserk plus regeneration. N9's berserking almost raises protection as much as E9, and gives added attack and damage to boot, not to mention never routing, regenerating from wounds, and receiving 1/10 as many afflications.

But there are exceptions : Machaka's Black Hunters start with 22 armor; at 26 armor they can be the equivalent of the Monitor and the Merrimack in the US's civil war, especially as they effectively stay at 0 fatigue (4 expended, 4 recovered from the bless).

Tien Chi'i's Red Guard only have 15 protection, becoming 19 - not nearly as invulnerable, but TC can hope for a hero who can heal wounds.

Add in N4 to the E9 blessing, and the troops stay alive a lot longer - and they go berserk and don't rout, as soon as they take damage.

But the real epitome of this blessing is probably Arcoscephale : Heart Guards start with 19 protection, damn near invulnerable once it becomes 23 from an Earth 9 blessing. N4 doesn't help the armor (not sure if N6 or higher's berserk would) but most importantly, it keeps them from routing. True, they can't take as much damage as Abysia's Lava Warriors, or Machaka's Hunters. But : Arco's priestesses can heal their wounds, making Arco one of the few nations that can keep troops around long enough to gain 3 or 4 experience stars before the troops are permanently crippled and useless.

It's the easy healing that makes it easy for Arco to go with a minor nature blessing (as can Pangaea, whose troops heal all by themselves), but even a minor nature blessing is potent, and a full (N9) blessing is often incredible. To compare the minor blessings : F4 is +2 offense. N4, if a troop survives first damage, is +1 offense, +1 protection, and +1 damage, plus never retreating. Only serious drawback is sacred mages going into melee combat. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Bluebird

June 16th, 2005, 03:14 AM

Jurri said:

Bluebird said:
so long and thanks for all the fish. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

What's this about the fish!? I'm scared, especially with that grinning visage of yours!

Have you ever read "The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy"?

Aku

June 16th, 2005, 05:17 AM

dolphins!

PashaDawg

June 16th, 2005, 08:24 AM

Wow - - thanks for the sacred troop discussion, Cainehill, et al.

Jurri

June 16th, 2005, 08:31 AM

Bluebird said:
Have you ever read "The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy"?

Of course... That was a poor reference to the earlier chit-chat where it became apparent that I am a fish that's very scared for his well-being. (Although in reality I'm a very brave squid.) That is to say, an obviously failed attempt at continuity! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Jeffr has a F9 bless, not N9. Effectively ensures that the lance hits!

Turin

June 16th, 2005, 12:21 PM

Well to chime in on the centaur discussion: I have used a n9e9 medusa in the most recent blitzes and I have won each of them, or was at the top of the score graphs when we stopped.

Even unmodded, they become pretty invincible(19 prot, 3 regen, doesn�t fatigue out) to troops with those blessing, with the exception of f9 blessed troops. 7 centaurs are enough to take almost any indie province, unless a random shot takes out your blesser.
The only counters are magic, which is pretty hard to pull off against their 21 hp and 29 action points, or thugs with etherealness and lifedraining weapons, but those are nerfed by zen�s mod.

And pan can easily cast troop enhancements on the centaurs. A lategamearmy will be accompanied by pans casting:haste, weapons of sharpness,army of gold/lead, mass regeneration, strength of giants,legions of steel and possibly gaias blessing.
That means you are facing centaurs with 32 prot, 6hp regen per turn, MR 18, 2armorpiercing attacks with 23 strength,high resistance to the elements, attack skill 16+ and they never fatigue out.

Combined with the huge gemboost from motheroak, which you will certainly get and a motheroakboosted gift of health, that makes pangaea really fearsome.

Another problem most nations relying on sacred troops have is storming castles, but pangaea has a superuseful siege unit,the harpy, which makes castle defense a moot point.

YellowCactus

June 16th, 2005, 01:07 PM

Wow,
Cainehill, nice post. I'm experimenting with F9W9B9 blessings with Mictlan. Scales are Luck +3, all others -3. The worst is drain 3. This set-up gives all holys +4 attack/strength/defense, hastes every other turn and gives flaming weapons. It works because eagle warriors (flying with two attacks) only cost 15 gold and 3 resources. The Blood fountain with mictlan's blood bonus give +6 blood from turn 1. So one or two FoD can be produced each of the first 10 turns. With F9W9B9 on the pretender (7 dominion), items are not needed for recruiting Ice Devils/Archdevils/Demon lords/Hoards from hell. The silly tactics available with this set-up are too many to list here. At blood8, a level 3 blood priest can cast 'Gift of Strength' which adds another +4 strength to all units. Imagine Jaguar warriors with 18 attack, 22 strength, quickened with 3 attacks. They're expensive though....25 gold. The scale problem takes care of itself on large maps because Mictlan inately doesn't spread dominion well. For the first few turns you must use only the god for 26 research, but sages will help outside your dominion. The blood path is really all you need. This is no amazing, exploitable pretender setting, but as for the discussion on blessings, its pretty fun! It brings a whole new meaning to SHROUD OF THE BATTLE SAINT!
-Yc

Boron

June 17th, 2005, 06:42 AM

Only Jurri left.

Jurri

June 17th, 2005, 07:35 AM

...and it's a new turn!

PashaDawg

June 17th, 2005, 09:19 AM

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It is with great regret that the Wise Luminescent Shedu of Arco declares that he had no choice but to follow the unanimous advice of the Arcoscephalian Council of Philosophers in declaring a War of Defensive Aggression on the Kingdom of Ulm.

The Ulmish tin cans' unrelenting infringements on the divine sovereignty of the peaceful Dominion of Arcoscephale could no longer be ignored by the Council of Philosophers or His Divine Wise Luminescence. Ulm's sick, deviant, and covert campaign to cynically contaminate and mutate natural justice could no longer be endured. It must be resisted and defeated for the peaceful futures of all nations! Arco heeds the call for the defense of justice!!

His Luminescence has been authorized by the Council in the name of ideal LOVE and pure VIRTUE to accept Ulm unconditional surrender once the Tin Cans admit the truth and renounce their errant ways.

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