New MP Game - Random, Anonymous, No Diplomacy

[The Panther]

I am looking to see if there is interest in a new MP game which was inspired by the QT3-Anon game about to wrap up.

The rules are simple:
1. All nations will be randomly assigned. No one except the host knows which player belongs to which nation. I am shooting for 17 players here.
2. No diplomacy of any kind. No in-game messages. No transferring of artifacts or gems or gold to any player. No external email allowed. I know this last item is impossible to truly enforce, so we would have to rely on the honor system here.

I think we would need a host for TCP/IP since sending 17 emails each turn might be too much for PBEM. Perhaps it would work if the host were to zip all turn files and send to all 17 players at the same time, but the file might get too big too quickly. Also, the host really cannot play in the game since he would know player assignments. Perhaps Soapyfrog or someone else would help here.

Settings:
Map - Orania
Indies - 9
Research - Very Hard
Mods - All Zen's mods plus Turin's Hero Mod
Renaming - Off
Graphs - On
Sites - 50%
Master Password - Yes
Victory Condition - 9 capitols (if 17 players)
All other settings normal.
Also, I would ask everyone to NOT select a name for their Pretender but just use the default supplied by the game. Passwords are essential for all Pretenders.


I will be out of the country from June 17-June 28, so I am looking for a start date about July 1 if everything can be worked out before then. My son (Tauren) has volunteered to watch this thread and respond to questions as required.

The game is open to the first 15 players (besides my son and I) who want in. If we can't get 17 players but can get 10, then we can do Inland instead.

What do you think?

[Manuk]

The random nations is cool but no diplomacy as you said, its impossible to control.

[Cainehill]

Eh - host could use master password to go into each nation each turn, thus seeing if any in-game messages were sent. With nations anonymous, it would be more difficult for people to do email via email, unless a couple of people pre-conspired and then told one another which nations they had.

Again, if the host looks at each turn, cheating would be pretty obvious when Abysia sends Caelum fire gems, or Paris sends Newcastle coal.

I'd certainly be interested in playing. Might suggest looking at using Turin's Hero mod in addition to Zen's collection.

[Shmonk]

Count me in, and looking to get experience with any nation I get. And I like the anonymous no diplomacy idea.

[The Panther]

Cainehill said:
unless a couple of people pre-conspired and then told one another which nations they had.




I must admit that I considered this a lot before deciding to go ahead. The pre-game alliance could really ruin this game and might be hard to detect for a long time.

However, I believe that most dominion players are just looking to have fun and not spoil things for everyone else.

Veterans like me and Tauren and Cainehill and Alneyan and Zen and Soapyfrog and Huzurdaddi and Pasha and newbies like Shmonk (and many of the others over in that ongoing newbie game) are all very trustworthy in my opinion. I believe we can find a lot of people who can be trusted to play by the rules.

[ioticus]

I'd like to play, but only if forced hosting is not less than 5 days. I can usually play a turn every 1 or 2 days, but I may rarely slip because of my work schedule, and I hate stale turns.

[GriffinOfBuerrig]

I am in!!! I like the idea of random nations much!!!

[Alneyan]

I would be interested, even if the game is TCP/IP (and all the Pretenders know how much I dislike TCP/IP), but... Well, I will be away when the game starts, and staling the early game isn't exactly a bright idea.

[Jurri]

Sounds fun! What about quitters, though? In my experience they are a much more prevalent problem than cheaters (I only know of one of the latter and oodles of the former), and preserving anonymity and finding subs is hard if someone disappears.

[Alneyan]

I hear you Jurri. I guess you could establish a Quitter Takeover Fundation, whose purpose will be to play in the stead of players that give up, but...

[WraithLord]

I also want in.

Only thing is I prefer not to have a biltz pace.
something along the lines of 24h hosting at first and 48h later would be fine for me.

[The Panther]

On the subject of pace:
I was thinking of 48 hour quick host. This allows the game to move very quickly at the start if we have no stales. Plus, with a victory condition, the pace will not need to change except in extraordinary circumstances. Also, I am certainly willing to wait for Alneyan to get back from vacation, or perhaps the host can make the first couple of moves for him. It will be a while before we get enough people to start the game anyway.

On the subject of quitters:
Yes, every MP game has people who drop out for various reasons. I have been thinking about this and suggest the following when a nation stales something like 4 turns in a row:
1. Have a list of alternates willing to step in when needed.
2. Set the game to run on the impossible level and turn the staling nation over to the AI. The computer players will thus get the extra gold every turn but not the boosted pretender.

On the subject of mods:
Has anybody looked at the hero mod yet? That might be cool in that it gives a player another reason to avoid taking the usual misfortune. EDIT: The hero Mod has been added to the game settings.

Latest Player list:
1. Panther
2. Tauren
3. Cainehill
4. Shmonk
5. Griffin
6. Alneyan
7. Jurri
8. Izaqyos
9. Bill Paxton
10. Turin
11. Boron
12. Bluebird
13. Goblin
14. RonD
15. Huntsman
16. Sedna
17. King Lear


Alternates:
1. Oversway
2. Yellow Cactus

[YellowCactus]

Oh heck!
I'd like to play tool.

-Yellowcactus

[Oversway]

Cool concept. I'm at (well past http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif ) my limit of mp games right now, but if I die quickly enough in some of them before this game starts, maybe I'll hop on. Otherwise, I could be an alternate.

[BillPaxton]

I'll play, I'm itching for more games !

[Cainehill]

I've looked at and played with the hero mod - I think it's a good thing. Without it, only a couple of nations actually care much whether or not they get their heroes, meaning yet another reason misfortune is appreciated.

Using the mod, it seems that any time a hero shows up it's good news; the ones that were previously uber-heroes are still uber-heroes, but the ground-pounding commanders with no magic paths are now equally welcome and useful.

[Jurri]

I support using the hero-mod, definitely!

[The Panther]

Sold!

[Turin]

Well of course I have to be in the first long MP game using my mod.
I´m in!

[WraithLord]

Is there a central place from which all the mods for this game can be downloaded?

[Alneyan]

Arryn's site probably has all mods, with the possible exception of the Heroes one, as it was released very recently.

Panther: there is a problem with me playing though, as we go with random nations, so I won't be able to design my Pretender before leaving (unless nations are assigned before I leave, so while you are away). If you feel like going that way, I'm fine with taking care of nations left unattended: if it's not a frequent occurrence (and I hope it won't be the case), there should be no problems with the sharing of information... of course, if five nations are currently staling, it will be another matter altogether.

[Turin]

arryn´s site has my mod. it´s scary how fast that site gets updated.

Here are the links for all the mods:
http://www.dominions-2.org/downloads/heroes1_1.zip
http://www.dominions-2.org/downloads/conceptp22.zip
http://www.dominions-2.org/downloads/concepts18.zip
http://www.dominions-2.org/downloads/conceptscale12.zip
http://www.dominions-2.org/downloads/conceptmi.zip (http://www.dominions-2.org/downloads/conceptmi1.zip)

[WraithLord]

Turin said:
arryn´s site has my mod. it´s scary how fast that site gets updated.

Here are the links for all the mods:
http://www.dominions-2.org/downloads/heroes1_1.zip
http://www.dominions-2.org/downloads/conceptp22.zip
http://www.dominions-2.org/downloads/concepts18.zip
http://www.dominions-2.org/downloads/conceptscale12.zip
http://www.dominions-2.org/downloads/conceptmi.zip (http://www.dominions-2.org/downloads/conceptmi1.zip)


this is great. thanks!

[The Panther]

Alneyan said:
Panther: there is a problem with me playing though, as we go with random nations, so I won't be able to design my Pretender before leaving (unless nations are assigned before I leave, so while you are away). If you feel like going that way, I'm fine with taking care of nations left unattended: if it's not a frequent occurrence (and I hope it won't be the case), there should be no problems with the sharing of information... of course, if five nations are currently staling, it will be another matter altogether.



Based on the responses so far, I expect that we will achieve a full 17 players fairly soon. If so, then I would further expect the nations to be randomly assigned while I am gone. So you will have plenty of time to create a pretender before your vacation begins.

One thing I have always noticed is just how painfully long it takes to get a game started on TCP/IP. Stops and starts are common. The first turn takes forever because people have forgoten about it or can't be tracked down soon and the first turn is almost never done as QH. Also, there are the people who didn't use the correct mods or totally messed up their pretender design. Restarts seem to happen frequently.

So, even with a July 1 target, it probably will be quite a bit longer before the game gets into full swing as a 2 day QH.

Perhaps this game can be played on MoseHansen and everybody simply stays anonymous, though it might be VERY difficult to know if every pretender was uploaded by the correct player.

Finally, I don't understand what you were trying to say about handling the unattended nations. Am I to imply that you were thinking of offering to host instead of playing?

[Boron]

The game sounds interesting. I am in too.

Two questions:
Do you design your god for your nation or do you get assigned a nation with a predesigned God from another player?
Can you freely chose your theme?

[The Panther]

Boron said:
Two questions:
Do you design your god for your nation or do you get assigned a nation with a predesigned God from another player?
Can you freely chose your theme?



You design your own pretender after being assigned the nation. No restrictions at all on Pretender design, choose anything you want under the Zen mods.

I know that several people are saying the Dracolich is overpowered, and maybe it is. However, that pretender is getting ripped in a 1v1 that I am hosting right now, so it surely can be beat.

[Boron]

The Panther said:
You design your own pretender after being assigned the nation. No restrictions at all on Pretender design, choose anything you want under the Zen mods.



Ok cool. Will be definitely interesting. Will you pm the participants their nations then or will you just publish them on the board, i.e. reveal them to public?


The Panther said:
I know that several people are saying the Dracolich is overpowered, and maybe it is. However, that pretender is getting ripped in a 1v1 that I am hosting right now, so it surely can be beat.


Yeah Zen nerfed the Dracolich in 2.2. So it is no longer a concern http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

[The Panther]

Boron said:
Will you pm the participants their nations then or will you just publish them on the board, i.e. reveal them to public?




I don't know exactly how the information transfer is going to happen, for it depends on the host. But the nation assignments will be kept secret. This means that if you are next to Abysia, then you will have no clue as to who is playing that nation.

[Cainehill]

The Panther said:
I don't know exactly how the informationm transfer is going too happen, for it depends on the host. But the nation assignments will be kept secret. This means that if you are next to Abysia, then you will have no clue as to who is playing that nation.



Are not all men neighbors? If I transgress against a stranger, do I not transgress against all men? Peace is the only way to true enlightenment and profit....

So.... Rest In Peace, comrades. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Alneyan]

Well, you could start the game as a PBEM, solving all problems with checking who is sending a Pretender for what nation; it would alwaus be possible to switch to TCP/IP once the game is underway.

What I was suggesting was taking over any dying nation left unattended in those "back against the wall" situations, but I am not sure if there would be much of a point, so you should scratch that.

[Shmonk]

Looks like we almost have enough people. Great!!

[WraithLord]

Are we waiting for more people?

[Cainehill]

Might be room for more people, but we're waiting for Jun 28-July 1st, for Panther to get back.

[The_Tauren13]

And we need a host.

[Bluebird]

I would like to join, I have the possibility to setup a 24/7 host. But I have never hosted a game before, so I might need some help, specially on how to assign the players to the nations.

[Alneyan]

I will give some instructions on my Pretender to Panther, so he can create a Pretender for me and get the party started. Not sure *who* can play my first few turns though... but games are tough to start, so it shouldn't be too much of a problem.

[PDF]

Alneyan said:
I will give some instructions on my Pretender to Panther, so he can create a Pretender for me and get the party started. Not sure *who* can play my first few turns though... but games are tough to start, so it shouldn't be too much of a problem.



Alneyan, I can sub you if you need - as long as it is for a couple weeks, and first turns aren't very long to play... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Alneyan]

It is for one week or so (the game won't start before July 1 at the very earliest, and I am back on July 9), and probably less than that, depending on how quickly (slowly?) the game gets started. I will forward you some generic information on my preferred Pretender designs; of course, I will have some trouble covering all 17 nations, but... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Jurri]

Ideally the host won't participate, so as to ensure the anonymity. I guess technically it's enough if the dude randomizing the nations won't take part even if he's not the host, but I suspect there would be other advantages and convenience in combining the functions.

[The_Tauren13]

We really do need an independent host, or the game will *really* take forever to start, with not even the host knowing who is who, so not knowing who to yell at for having not uploaded their pretender, and then the players wouldnt have anyone to go to without revealing what nation theyre playing when they mess up their pretender design using the wrong mods... Also, we need a host who would be willing to check every once in a while and see if any gems or anything is being sent between players...
If we cant find a host by the time the game is supposed to start, I could drop out and host it. It would just have to be PBEM, though, cause I cant host TCP/IP.

[Bluebird]

Is it really that necessary to be so strict about all these 'Anonymous' rules? We already remarked very early on that it is not possible to enforce it anyway. So I think that we should just rely on the fact that "nobody talks to nobody else" and hope that everybody sticks to it.

I could host the game, but I would like to participate. I though about writing a script that sends a nation name to each participant, even without me knowing it (you would need to trust me on this). Everything else (checking logs, etc.) is - IMHO - useless and does not improve the game.

[Shmonk]

I, for one, like the approach of total anonymity, and that a host would "police" the game periodically (check for messages or gold/gems being moved around) to make sure no one was 'cheating'. And if so, they would be punished (set to AI, or something). And I like the idea of not knowing who my neighbor is. Okay, Machaka is on my border, but is that Jurri or Cainehill or someone else?

Anyway, just my 2 cents.

[Turin]

I think you don´t need to actually have someone checking that no "cheating" goes on. I have enough faith in the players here, that they will only sign up for a game if they want to stick to it´s rules.

[Goblin]

I would love to joint the game if there are still places available. Having just got the game I fully expect to get my *** handed to me, but Dom II looks like the perfect multi-player game.

The idea of an anonymous game is great for players like me who are not a member of a group, and I like the idea of random as well - as I will be forced to try a nation I may not try for a long time.

Please let me know if you need any information from me in order to register.

Regards
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Shmonk]

I can't wait for this game to start. Only because every day I almost join another game or 2 to start playing, but with the 3 I'm in, it eats up enough of my free time. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif I figure 4 will be my limit, and this will be my 4th.

What will be interesting is the not knowing what race you'll get since it's random. Which could hurt or help me, only because I don't play any blood nations (just not my cup of tea). So if I do get one, it will make me try something new. Like a "sink or swim" type of game. Or some other race I think it's cool but not tried yet - any water nation, C'tis, Tien Chi, and Vanheim to name a few.

So sometime these next few days we'll be starting (or week, doesn't matter to me), right?

[Cainehill]

I also hope so, for much the same reasons. While I will ... enjoy not knowing who the other players are, the random choice of nations will be almost as nifty. Sure - I'll have to come up with a clue for a nation that, well, maybe I'm an expert on. Maybe not. And everyone will likewise be getting tossed into the blender. So my crap Arco (or worse than crap pythium or mictlan) goes up against someone else's crap Caelum, or against an expert Ulm or TC. Kinda nifty.

[WraithLord]

I join this sentiment.

I just hope not to get Tien chi (Don't know why but I have developed somewhat of an aversion for this nation).

[The Panther]

Hey all, I am back!

We now have 13 players and only need 4 more. I will adverstise on the Quarter to Three forum and will probably get another 4 fairly soon.

Unfortunately, Soapyfrog is upgrading his server right now and cannot host. We could try the mosehansen server, but he does not have all the mods enabled. Plus it would be VERY hard on Mosehansen to know who has uploaded the pretenders (and have the correct ones) since everyone has to remain anonymous.

I am dead set on the total anonymous thing for this game. I want to try really hard to make sure no one knows who their neighbors. I mean, you might be between Cainehill and Jurri and are in trouble before you know it. Or you might be next to Panther and have an easy time at it. But you never know. You also never know when your neighbor might suddenly attack you for reasons that are not at all apparent! Seems like it is worth a try to me.

As for a player in the game hosting, I thing that would be too hard. Hosting by PBEM means that the host knows nation assignments. Hosting by server could work, but it has been my experience that hosting on your home computer 24/7 with 17 nation players is much too difficult. The game still has a few instability problems. I could be wrong, though, and it might be able to work properly.

So, we need 4 more players and a hosting arrangement. Alneyan is back next week and we also might as well wait for him since it is still going to take a while to settle everything anyway.

But it is getting closer! I am down to 3 games and have room for another one, so I am raring to go.

[RonD]

This sounds interesting - I'll sign up.

[Shmonk]

Only 3 to go...

[Jurri]

How about commander renaming? I know some do it and some don't, so it could possibly tip off who's who. (Oh, look, that player has named all his commanders Cainehill. I wonder who it is.) On the other hand Boron will go crazy if he can't rename his clam-carriers, as will I if the nation in question has random mages. Hence, I'd suggest allowing only certain kinds of renaming (preferable), or disallowing it completely (more reliable). Here's (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showthreaded.php?Number=356385) a discussion about the possibilities of renaming even if direct communication is not allowed. Of course these would be cheating, but I'm more interested about renaming your mages: I like to rename them based on their random magics and empowerments and items (like, an earth Warlock empowered in blood, holding a clam and having cost a global would be named EBc+, to seek as complex an example as possible). Thus, if you encounter a player that doesn't rename his mages you'll know it's not me and will perhaps spare him owing to that, which would then be a decision influenced by diplomacy http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Now, the options are either disregarding the matter, agreeing on a common renaming scheme, or turning renaming off altogether. Thoughts, anyone?

[Huntsman]

I was in the original Anon game and I'd like to do it again. Count me in. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Cainehill]

I think we can trust that people won't be doing the cheesy, cheating renaming of scouts that was discussed there. In addition, if the host uses the master password to quickly skim through everyone's turns, it'd immediately be apparent that someone had cheated.

While on the other paw, nations with significant random magics (Tien Chi, etc) are pretty well screwed with renaming turned off, imo. If you're Ulm or the 2 Pangaean themes with no randoms, you're fine (until you take a jade amazon province), but...

And if someone names all their commanders Cainehill or Jurri, I think it's a safe bet that isn't us. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Cainehill]

Oh - we could have an agreed upon format for renamings. All Pretenders must be named "Pretender" or "God" - that way you can't immediately tell that someone chose a lich or whatnot.

All Prophets are named "Prophet" or "Profit"; all mages, if renamed, are renamed in the D2F8A7 format - much as I hate that naming scheme for killing any sense of immersion in the game, it does give the player the information he wants, without giving away who the player is.

And mages shouldn't _need_ to be renamed - after all, 20 mages named "F1E2" for Ulm is kinda pointless. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Shmonk]

I was going to say that turning renaming off is probably best. But... if everybody knows renaming is allowed and others might see your renaming scheme and give away who you are, you will need to consider a new renaming scheme for this game.

For example, naming your units "BOB-WATER DUDE" like you've always done in other games will be a give away to the regulars (not me) who know your naming convention.

And this means if I name all my commanders "JURRI-AIR DUDE", JURRI-WATER DUDE", etc. the best assumption is I'm not Jurri, but someone trying to masquerade as Jurri. Unless I'm really Jurri. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

So I think renaming is okay now, because it could be interesting (as long as it's not abused), and is needed/preferable for nations with randoms.

[Cainehill]

Or, "Jurri Bites" (b is for blood), "Shmonk Eats Dirt" (Earth and death random), "Cainehill's Awesome!" (air) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[The Panther]

Please check my settings from the orginal post. It clearly says NO renaming and has from day 1. I also requested that all players use the default name for their pretenders when making them.

As for TC mages (and other nations), I have found that the F1 screen is a much easier way to determine the schools on your mages rather than renaming. I used to name my mages F1, D3, N4 for either a random school or the most empowered one. I even tried for a while to keep up with modifying the name when you add boosting artifacts. But I always missed some and got off far too often.

I also had a game where an opponent miraculously picked off my best mages from afar. He told me he did that because I had a mages named F5 (for casting Flames), or S6 (for wish with boosting), etc. So I don't do that anymore.

Of course, this does not help with your clam hoarders, I know. But clams are nerfed anyway, so it is not as big a deal as it might seem.

We are up to 15 players now and need but 2 more. The single biggest problem still remains the host issue. Anybody have any ideas on how to solve this?

EDIT: JM over on the QT3 forum has agreed to use his server for hosting this game. Stay tuned!

[PashaDawg]

I could probably host, but it would need to be a PBEM game.

I assume that the host could send all turns out via a bulk email to all players (that is, all players would get all the files, but they would be locked up by passwords). That would make sure that the host would not need so send out a bunch of personal emails.

Oh... and I am a lawyer... so I am good at keeping identities confidential. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Jurri]

Ah, I must be going blind. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/redface.gif Still, I would prefer to have renaming on, but I guess not. I only hope I get Ulm! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[PDF]

What's the status ? Alneyan asked me to sub him if game started these days but it looks like we're far from that ...

[GriffinOfBuerrig]

Gogogo,

and i hope not to get Miclan *würg*

[Cainehill]

If we have 15 players, perhaps we could do all the land nations randomly? If we wait too long, some of the players are likely to have forgotten / lost interest before it starts.

[GriffinOfBuerrig]

Exactilitily! ^^

[Shmonk]

Hmm... I like that too (if we wanted to start sooner and not wait for 17).

[Sedna]

I'll join. I'll have to find someone to fill in for me for the last week of July, but this looks like fun...

[King Lear]

Oh, this looks like fun. I'd be happy to join if there's a spot, otherwise I'm equally happy to play the roll of joining the 'Foundation' which sounds like a great idea for any multiplayer game.

[Shmonk]

Looks like 17 now with the last 2 - Sedna and King Lear. Hopefully that means once the hosting is ironed out we'll be starting (this week hopefully).

Can't wait!!

[The Panther]

OK, we are full up and ready to start. Pasha Dawg has graciously offered to host this mega-game. Tauren is working with Pasha to help him get it all set up. There is still an open issue of whether the turn files will be sent en-mass (meaning password necessary) or singly (meaning no password needed). Likely the en-mass method will not work because the file will become too large.

All 17 players need to privately send their email address (by email or PM) to Pasha Dawg so he can collect all 17 addresses.

Sometime soon, Pasha will randomly assign the 17 nations and send them out in private to everyone. I propose we give everyone about 5 days to make a pretender. This gives Alneyan time to get back home and make his own pretender. Please remember to use the default pretender name when making your pretender. Also, don't forget to use the proper mods for this.

Adding it up, this means a target start date of July 11, though I bet it takes longer to actually get going.

This game is going to be really fun. Unless, that is, I get eliminated much too soon!

[Huntsman]

Great! Should be fun. Thanks for putting it all together.

I'm off to figure out which mods I need...

[Arkas]

Doh, just my luck this gets started after nothing but a week of talk about the faerun game from chris. I am still a noob at this game but i do have 1 game under my belt. If someone drops out let me know i wouldnt mind getting involved, but if not i will watch for the next game to join up.

[Turin]

why can´t we use Jm´s server? play by email gets so tedious.

[The Panther]

JM says he never checks email and the only good way to get a hold of him is to PM him on QT3. He did not say how often he checks that. He also does not play Dominions anymore. This could cause trouble and delays when something happens to the game. It makes backups a problem unless it is done automatically on the host server. I have found PBEM to be easier to recover from incidents and far more stable than TCP/IP. I have had several TCP/IP games crash permanently for various reasons but never have I had a PBEM game crash unrecoverably.

Using anonymous players, the game would likely have to be started under PBEM for the first turn to make sure the right people put in for the right nation. There is typically a lot of care and feeding for that first turn. Perhaps Pasha could get us going at the start and we could then switch over to JM's server when the game had stablized. With 17 players, PBEM does get very tedious for the hosting agent.

But for the players, PBEM is much easier than TCP/IP in that you don't have to periodically check the server to find if there is a new turn. All you have to do is check your email, which most people do routinely anyway. Myself, I far prefer PBEM when playing.

[PashaDawg]

Welcome friends!

I will be your host for the next several turns.

Folks have been sending me PM's. It is also fine to email me directly at whscom *AT* maine *dot* com.

If anyone has tips on how to deal with so many emails, please feel free to chime in or send me an email.

Shall we say that the subject line for all emails in this game will have "RAND" (short for Random, Anonymous, No Diplomacy) in the subject line? That way I can have some email rules and a special folder.

Please note that I will be lounging next to a lake in extreme rural Maine from July 16 - 20, and I will be in the Great State of Wyoming from August 19 - 24. I will endeavor to find a substitute host for while I am away.

Pasha

[Goblin]

All hail PashaDawg - many thanks to you.

Looking forward to the start of this great game

[Turin]

The Panther said:


But for the players, PBEM is much easier than TCP/IP in that you don't have to periodically check the server to find if there is a new turn. All you have to do is check your email, which most people do routinely anyway. Myself, I far prefer PBEM when playing.



but jm´s server runs a script that sends you a notify email once a new turn is generated, so you get the best of both http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif . And there were no problems running the game on his server.

[GriffinOfBuerrig]

Yes, that would be the best!

All praise Pasha!

[Bluebird]

I can't join ... sorry - have fun with the game, but I have to leave for two weeks.

[PDF]

Do we start right now ? Who's sending the "assignments" (player/nation) and when ?

[GriffinOfBuerrig]

I think Pasha will sent them soon:

What about a small summary in the beginning of the Threat, who still have to sent his eMail to Pasha?!

*chofs*

[The Panther]

Bluebird is out and Arkas is in.

Latest Player list:
1. Panther
2. Tauren
3. Cainehill
4. Shmonk
5. Griffin
6. Alneyan
7. Jurri
8. Izaqyos
9. Bill Paxton
10. Turin
11. Boron
12. Arkas
13. Goblin
14. RonD
15. Huntsman
16. Sedna
17. King Lear

Alternates:
1. Oversway
2. Yellow Cactus

PDF - Since Alneyan is back on Saturday and this game will not be started by then, you can just wait for him to return.

Hosting - The JM server sounds pretty good. If Pasha Dawg can get us going with the first couple of moves, then perhaps we should migrate over to JM's server when the Dawg goes lounging around in the back country of Maine later this month.

Pasha - Have you randomly assigned the nations yet?

All - Be sure to send Pasha your email address. Perhaps Pasha can put in a post or two for people who have yet do that so we can get an idea of who is missing the boat.

[Cainehill]

I'm in. And I own all your nations. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Edit : Except for Tien C'hi and Mictlan. Don't want them. All your other bases are owned. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Huntsman]

Turin said:

The Panther said:


But for the players, PBEM is much easier than TCP/IP in that you don't have to periodically check the server to find if there is a new turn. All you have to do is check your email, which most people do routinely anyway. Myself, I far prefer PBEM when playing.



but jm´s server runs a script that sends you a notify email once a new turn is generated, so you get the best of both http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif . And there were no problems running the game on his server.



Yup, the automatic email notification is fantastic. I've never actually played PBEM mode... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/confused.gif

[PashaDawg]

Hi All:

I am still waiting for emails for the following players:

Arkas
King Lear
Bill Paxton

I will start RANDOMLY assigning nations. I will send information to each player separately. Hee hee! The power! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

Pasha

[PashaDawg]

Alright!

I have assigned nations, and I will send out emails.

Gee wiz!! I was SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO tempted to start tinkering with the results of my random assignment, but I slapped my hand. The assignment is completely random.

Pasha

[Cainehill]

And now this should become one of the quietest game threads, aside from the occasional "Is the server up" questions. Hopefully no one will go, "Oh man, I finally got the Robert E Lee hero but he got a disease his first battle!" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Arkas]

my noobness knows no bounds. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

i forgot to log in when i last came here 2 days ago.

[GriffinOfBuerrig]

Can someone please link all mods and descriptions of the changes?
And where is the Hero-Mod?!

[RonD]

Oh yeah?! Well my [....] will [....] your [....] and then [....]. When we're finished with [....] we're gonna [....] your [....]! So there!


{trash talk redacted by the Department of [....], [....]}

[GriffinOfBuerrig]

Ok, found the mods, but have someone a summary, expecial of the magic changes?

[King Lear]

Yai, we get to start soon! Happy days. Oh, and all of you with your rubbish trash talk... just hope you can back it up =).

[Cainehill]

GriffinOfBuerrig said:
Ok, found the mods, but have someone a summary, expecial of the magic changes?



Here's what Quantum Mechanic wrote about the Spell Mod (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/download.php?Number=350432).

Closest to a proper write up for the item mod is at the bottom of this page (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=296181&page=0&view=collap sed&sb=5&o=&fpart=25&vc=1).

A description of new scale effects is on the very last past of the thread.

Gotta see if we can get Zen to edit the first post in that thread / topic, add in the links to the descriptions.

[GriffinOfBuerrig]

Ahhh, thank you http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Huntsman]

Got my email. Almost marked it as SPAM but there was a little voice telling me to just take a quick peek... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Just want to make sure I've got the mods done right. So when I run the game, go to Preferences, I should have the following set to "Enabled":

Conceptual Magic Items 1.0
Conceptual Pretender Gods 2.2
Conceptual Spells 1.8
Worthy Heroes 1.1

Does that look right? thx

[Cainehill]

The one you need to make sure of when creating your pretender is the Pretender 2.2 - all the others, if installed, get turned on or off by the game you're in.

In addition there's the Conceptual Scales 1.2 that you need.

[GriffinOfBuerrig]

bah, i don´t like the zen spell mods!

[Cainehill]

You don't like:
low level summonings being more useful
Abusive spells being harder to cast
High end summonings requiring more research / magic paths
Troop buffing spells being more accessable

[Cainehill]

GriffinOfBuerrig said:
bah, i don´t like the zen spell mods!



Err... You do realize you're already in at least one game that's using all of Zen's mods? Turn 29 in the Gotterdammerung game for instance.

[Jurri]

Mebbe that game's the basis for his dislike? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

...I like it. The mod does create some new problems and I still wouldn't summon animals, but all in all it's a good thing!

[GriffinOfBuerrig]

I like the disbalances of the unmodiefied version:

I like the pretender Mod very much and are interrestet in a good unit rebalance, but the spells ... i don´t know(howl = 2 Nature gems!Everything is so relativ.
Dont´t want to complain about the balance, i am quite sure that its better for that.

And i make profit with this mod http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[PashaDawg]

Hi All:

I am still waiting for an email from Bill Paxton. All other players have checked in with me.

Feel free to send me pretenders. Be sure to make passwords for your pretenders. Make sure you have the pretender mod enabled.

Pasha

[PashaDawg]

I just sent Mr. Paxton a PM to let him know about the status of the game.

[Cainehill]

Do we have a target date for when the pretenders should be sent?

I'm currently trying to trade mine to someone else - I _hate_ playing the Ferengi, I'd trade for almost anything else. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Sedna]

Wait a minute, there must be some mistake-- I was assigned the Ferengi.

[Cainehill]

I thought you were the cardassians?

[Sedna]

Curses, my diabolical ruse has been foiled!

But... the only way you could have known who I am is if you are, in reality, playing the Trilibdiods. And now that I've uncovered your identity I can hunt you down and wipe out your people. Even your Ferengi ways won't save you this time.

[Cainehill]

The trouble with Tribils is ... While you exterminate them, the Ferengi have been selling holoporn of your mom. Will the horror never end? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Boron]

Cainehill said:

Do we have a target date for when the pretenders should be sent?

I'm currently trying to trade mine to someone else - I _hate_ playing the Ferengi, I'd trade for almost anything else. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif


Are you really willing to trade?
I would trade my nation asap no matter which nation you have http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif.
My nation is not bad i am just not happy with it because of other reasons.

[PashaDawg]

No trading. Random - Random - Random.

[PashaDawg]

Bill Paxton has still not responded. What should we do?

By the way, I got an email from Alneyan. I would like to withdraw from this game.

Perhaps, we should let both of the alternates into the game?

Pasha

[Alneyan]

PashaDawg said:
By the way, I got an email from Alneyan. I would like to withdraw from this game.




You beat me to it. I will withdraw if there are enough alternates; otherwise, I will stick to the bitter end... or some such.

[Jurri]

PashaDawg said:
Perhaps, we should let both of the alternates into the game?



Either that, or re-randomize the nations without water races, or open it anew. I for one don't want to force anyone into it.

[Boron]

Jurri said:

PashaDawg said:
Perhaps, we should let both of the alternates into the game?



Either that, or re-randomize the nations without water races, or open it anew. I for one don't want to force anyone into it.


Yeah rerandomizing without water nations is a very good idea. I second this idea.

[Cainehill]

I for one object to re-randomizing for a number of reasons. #1, I doubt that I'm the only one who has put a substantial number of hours into trying to find a pretender setup that would work for indies 9, very difficult research.

#2, if they're re-randomized then the whole process starts over of telling people which nations they have, waiting for their pretenders, and then ... having other people drop out, starting the whole process over again.

Just let the people drop out, who cares if there is 1 aquatic nation or 2 or whatever. It's hard enough getting a game this size going, let alone the randomized, no-diplomacy bit, and it'd be nice to get this one started soon.

[The Panther]

I too object to re-randomizing the nations. If we go down that path, we may never get the game started. I have also put a lot of effort into a pretender. Of course, I have yet to find a decent pretender for my random nation, but not for a lack of trying!

I have messaged Bill Paxton and remind him of the game we are trying to get going. I got an email from him this past Friday so I know he is alive.

[Shmonk]

So if and when we are ready to go (with the current nation) we email or PM it to PashaDawg, correct?

[Cainehill]

Think so - no one has responded about when we're supposed to send the pretenders in yet.

[Alneyan]

I fully agree with Cainehill and Panther, in that there should be no rerandomising (if that's a word) of any kind.

If there aren't enough alternate people, I will stick to playing; if not, I'll withdraw and leave my spot for someone else (basically, I think another player would have a funnier time, but I will stick to my commitment if there aren't 17 players).

[Cainehill]

Incidentally, Bill Paxton showed up on IRC, I'm trying to let him know the game is waiting on him.

[PashaDawg]

Preteders should be EMAILED to me, please.

I am going out of town starting Saturday (maybe even Friday night). So, Let's say that Pretenders need to be to me by TUESDAY.

It's my understanding that the game might eventually switch to a server. So, that would give us enough time to take care of that.

Pasha

[The Panther]

Tauren has moved into his dorm room to start his college career. But he will not be getting the computer until Tuesday, so he will have to wait until then to do anything.

[BillPaxton]

yeap, thanks for the heads up caine

I'm making my pretender right now

[King Lear]

Sounds good. Pretenders in by tuesday. And if someone really does want to just drop out, would not having one of the nations in really mess up the balance all that much?

just a thought

[Shmonk]

I was looking forward for this game to start, and now I have to be out town for 5 days (until Saturday), there was a death in the family. If I create my Pretender and send it in, can we delay the start of the game until Saturday, or maybe have someone sub my first few turns when I give them my strategy.

I'm hoping to find a taker who would be kind enough to play my first few turns, otherwise I will drop out to make room for someone else.

Takers, anyone? Just the first few turns? The easy stuff?

[PashaDawg]

I have nothing against delays, but I am not a player in this one. Please keep in mind that I will be out of town from Saturday, July 16 until Wednesday, July 20.

[Cainehill]

Pasha! Can't you take Shmonk's first coupla turns? It won't matter that you know who people are, first turns with indies-9 is just going to be recruitment and research.

[Shmonk]

I have a sub (Quantum_mechani) for this game, so as soon as it starts he knows what to do, and my pretender has already been submitted.

Good luck, hope it's started by the time I return (Saturday).

[PashaDawg]

Ok. So, Alneyan would prefer not to play in this game. Shall we offer his spot to the waiting list? I see that Oversway is first, followed by YellowCactus.

[Cainehill]

I expect YC would have some problems playing soon, as hurricane dennis went through his area. At this point I think the priority should be on getting things started soon - if Oversway can get a pretender in by Tuesday, great, otherwise I think we could live without a nation or two.

[The Panther]

I was testing my pretender over the weekend on the map and noticed that there are preset victory points throughout the map. Since my original game settings had a victory condition of 9 capitols, this won't work with the other victory points already placed.

Perhaps the map file can be modified to remove all the set VPs. Opinions on this?

[Boron]

The Panther said:
I was testing my pretender over the weekend on the map and noticed that there are preset victory points throughout the map. Since my original game settings had a victory condition of 9 capitols, this won't work with the other victory points already placed.

Perhaps the map file can be modified to remove all the set VPs. Opinions on this?


Capitols are named after the Nation. So i would suggest that the host checks every 5 turns for the number of capitols each player has and posts it.
So the settings are normal settings but the houserule is 9 capitols.
If the host reports every 5 turns the status this should be enough. As soon as someone has 9 capitols when the host reports again the game is over. What do you think?


And i have another question: When will be revealed which player played which nation? After the end of the game?
My idea would be that everytime a player dies he says which nation he had played http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif.

[GriffinOfBuerrig]

Thats both good ideas!

And fun!

[Alneyan]

Boron said:
Capitols are named after the Nation. So i would suggest that the host checks every 5 turns for the number of capitols each player has and posts it.
So the settings are normal settings but the houserule is 9 capitols.
If the host reports every 5 turns the status this should be enough. As soon as someone has 9 capitols when the host reports again the game is over. What do you think?



Alternatively, any player having 9 capitals could just say so, and the host would then check if it is indeed true. If you don't want random claiming, make the claiming player give his password, so that everyone can check: that way, nobody would falsely claim victory.

Your way will allow the other players to know who's leading in capitals, while my own suggestion keeps that information secret; whether public or private capital count should be used in the game is for the players to decide.

[Turin]

I like alneyan´s suggestion more. We don´t need the host to do even more work.

[The Panther]

Because this game may migrate to a server, we will not have a very active host. I therefore think it is better to have the victory condition done automatically if possible. Can the Orania map file be easily edited to remove the existing VPs and therefore use capitol-only VPs?

Also, with graphs on (see my original game settings in the first post), the automatic VP setting will be a good way to see when a player is getting close to winning so neighbors can pick on the leader if they dare.

You can't really have people in the game making claims (like "I rock because I own my own home plus the Machaka and Atlantis capitols", or even "I currently own 5 capitols"), for this would reveal the nation owned by the player. Heck, even if the host says who owns a certain number of capitols every 5 turns, a true computer nerd (like my son) will eventually figure out who is playing which nation!

If we can't make the VP thing work because the map is too hard to edit, then we could use 50% of the provinces as the victory condition instead.


I really like Boron's suggestion that when a player is eliminated (or goes AI), his name and nation is revealed.

[Alneyan]

The Panther said:
You can't really have people in the game making claims (like "I rock because I own my own home plus the Machaka and Atlantis capitols", or even "I currently own 5 capitols"), for this would reveal the nation owned by the player.



Actually, my own suggestion was simply once nine capitals are under control, and nothing else; if you make a false claim, you deserve every single complication that will ensue, while a correct claim will result in the game being over.

It's only any use if you want to keep the number of capitals secret; otherwise, your way (or Boron's, which introduces a "every five turns" clause) is better, and every player will know how well the other nations are doing. Removing the victory points should not take more than a handful of seconds, and setting other VPs will be quick and painless. Unless I am mistaken, it will require set starting points though, and that may take a while to do, if balanced starting points are needed.

[Cainehill]

I think the victory points should be left in - they denote provinces of significance on the map. Simply let the one person say, "I have 9 capitols" - presumably everyone in the game can count to 9. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[The Panther]

Thanks for clearing that up, Alneyan. I read your post closer and understand it now.

Because I wanted graphs on (which helps for the people to see who is leading), then I was thinking of having the victory condition open also so everybody knows when someone is about to win. Without diplomacy, it will be much harder to cordinate an attack on the leader, but that is just part of the mystery of these settings. The graphs will help every player decide what to do to some extent.

You don't need preset starting spots because of the game option to select the box which says something like "1 VP per capitol". Doing this and setting all other VPs to zero produces 17 VPs on the map (1 per capitol). Then all that must be done is to select 9 VPs to win and everything is easy. What I did not know was if the map had the VPs built into the provinces or was just an added line in the map file. I do infer from your post above that it is nothing but a few lines in the code to be removed. I am at work right now so I cannot check this, but I sure take your word for it being easy.

A final problem might be the starting location selection. I remember just how lousy the starting spots were on the Blade game under Version 2.16 and I still don't know the cause of that. We may encounter the same problem and Pasha could have significant work trying to get the starting spots to work fairly.

[Alneyan]

The Panther said:
A final problem might be the starting location selection. I remember just how lousy the starting spots were on the Blade game under Version 2.16 and I still don't know the cause of that. We may encounter the same problem and Pasha could have significant work trying to get the starting spots to work fairly.



Don't you mean the 2vs2? Blade was started under 2.15, and had pretty good random starting points, near as I can tell. The 2vs2 game was awful however, especially for aquatic nations starting next to land nations.

I didn't know about the 1 VP per capital setting; it will be much easier then. You will need more than a few seconds to remove the VPs, but less than one minute, unless a simple Find & Replace works (leaving pointless numbers in the middle, which should not matter).

Hmm... I am doing an awful lot of talking for a game I will not take part in. Someone, please cast a Silence spell on me.

[Turin]

I just had a quick look at the mapfile and there´s one thing that I find really bad. province 173 has the oak of ages as a special site which gives an enchantment bonus 50!
And it´s only guarded by an ivy king and a couple of vine ogres/men, so it should be no problem for an early game pretender to take that site. So if you could alter the mapfile and replace it with the mother oak or something similar it would be great.

I have attached a mapfile without victorypoints and which replaces the oak of the ages with the motheroak.

[PashaDawg]

Duh! What precisely is the effect of "enchantment bonus 50"? I have been too lazy to figure that out (and I am extremely lazy about that stuff... ugh!) Maybe one of these days, one of you guys will sit me down and answer my questions. I will bring the gin and vermouth.

[Huntsman]

I'll get my pretender in tomorrow.

I too am going away this weekend (actually, Thursday - Sunday) but I may be able to borrow a laptop. If not, I'll try to find a sub.

[quantum_mechani]

PashaDawg said:
Duh! What precisely is the effect of "enchantment bonus 50"? I have been too lazy to figure that out (and I am extremely lazy about that stuff... ugh!) Maybe one of these days, one of you guys will sit me down and answer my questions. I will bring the gin and vermouth.

Enchantment bonus 50 means enchantment rituals in that province will cost only 50% of the normal amount of gems.

[PashaDawg]

Oversway told me that he can't join in. So, perhaps, YC can play?

[PashaDawg]

Thanks, QM, for the education!

[Jurri]

Hmm... It would seem that on Orania, in Winterland (#277) there is an Ice Devil instead of an Ice Druid. Is it just me, or can someone maybe verify whether this is the case universally? The only mods in operation are the ones in use with this game, and the .map seems to detail there being an "Ice Druid" in the province. Do the Zen mods touch upon the Ice Druid, or only on the Frost Father? If it's renamed or something, I could see it causing behavior like this.

Not an issue, of course, as a stronger than usual province defense would touch upon everyone equally, but weird things are always intriguing!

[Argitoth]

I don't care to read 10 pages of post to see the status of this game. I'd like to join as C'tis... Note that it is the hosts job to update the first post with info. Come on people, don't be lazy!

[Turin]

My map file says that there is an ice devil. I think it´s intentional since he is accompanied by 15 frost fiends.

The ice druid is in winter woods, province 5.

But I´d really like to use my modified mapfile since a known enchantment 50 site with weak defenders is pretty unbalancing. The other preplaced special sites are fine imho.

[RonD]

Argitoth said:
I don't care to read 10 pages of post to see the status of this game. I'd like to join as C'tis... Note that it is the hosts job to update the first post with info. Come on people, don't be lazy!



That is a lot of reading, even for the industrious person you appear to be. Perhaps the first few lines of the first post would be of interest to you.


The rules are simple:
1. All nations will be randomly assigned. No one except the host knows which player belongs to which nation. I am shooting for 17 players here.

[Cainehill]

Argitoth said:
I don't care to read 10 pages of post to see the status of this game. I'd like to join as C'tis... Note that it is the hosts job to update the first post with info. Come on people, don't be lazy!



Argitoth, perhaps you didn't notice the game is : "Random, Anonymous, No Diplomacy"? In other words, nations are randomly assigned, no one knows who has what nation, and there's no diplomacy ingame or on the forums.

In other words, no you certainly can't join as C'tis.
Sheesh.

[Jurri]

Oh, sorry Turin! There seems to be no end to my dizziness these days... I agree about the Oak of Ages, it's far too good to be preplaced. Hence, I'm all for using your mapfile.

[Huntsman]

Sorry folks but I'm going to have to pull out of this one. I'm going away for 4 days and I don't want to hold it up, especially for the early rounds. Good luck.

[Argitoth]

aha

[Goblin]

Being a Newbie and not understanding the potential ramification of the high-powered sites you mention can I just say that: An imbalanced game may be better than none.

With 17/16/15/... players it may be better to accept sum imperfections of set ups and the like and adopt the KISS principle (Keep It Simple Stupid - me being the stupid one which needs things kept simple).

If people think that certain sites are ultra powerful then just list them for everyone to see. That way anyone holding them is likely to have to devote excessive resources to holding them from jealous neighbours - hence balancing things again.

Also I thought Almeyan’s suggestion for victory conditions was brilliantly simple (had KISS written all over it).

Regards,
Goblin.

[PashaDawg]

Hi All:

I contacted Yellow Cactus to see if he wanted to play as an alternate, but he replied that he is not looking to join a new game (but that he would play as a sub).

Let me know what people want to do. Do you want to add other players? Do you want to delay starting the game until next week (which would avoid the issue of my short trip)?

Here is the current list of players and whether I have received his/her pretender:

1. Shmonk: YES
2. Huntsman: Dropping Out?
3. RonD: YES
4. GriffinOfBuerrig: YES
5. Sedna: YES
6. Izaqyos: YES
7. Goblin: YES
8. Turin: YES
9. Jurri: YES
10. Cainehill: YES
11. The Panther: YES
12. Tauren: NO
13. Alneyan: Dropping Out?
14. Bill Paxton: YES
15. Boron: YES
16. Arkas: NO
17. King Lear: NO

Thanks. Oh... and am I expected to update the first thread? I did not consider myself THAT kind of host. Can I refresh anybody's drink while I am up? Maybe Yellow Cactus would play that new tune he wrote on the banjo!

Pasha

[Cainehill]

I could use a drink, sure. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Don't pay any attention to Argitoth. Mind you, it is nice to be able to see the latest news in the first page, but that's mostly to have a place to see who is what nation - not applicable here. And besides - you didn't propose the game or start the thread.

Personally - I'd as soon get the show on the road. Wait til next week, we possibly lose more players, it becomes a revolving door situation when you try for a game with 17 players.

Have a great vacation!

[The Panther]

OK, my opinion. Hopefully, Pasha will be getting the three missing pretenders soon. I also recall Alneyan saying that he would play if we needed him for 17 players. I also think YC could maybe do the first couple of turns for Huntsman since those turns are very easy.

I will PM Huntsman on the QT3 forum and ask him to go ahead and submit a pretender. I will also email Alneyan and ask him to play with us. If Pasha would email the three players with missing pretenders to remind them to submit them soon, I think we could start tomorrow. Once we get the first turn or two done, we could attempt to migrate to the JM server and try it on TCP/IC with 48 hr QH per the original plans.

It is amazing just how hard it is to start a big Dominoons game...

[Alneyan]

Yup, I will be playing as you cannot get those 17 players. Pretender should be sent in today.

[Boron]

The Panther said:
I will PM Huntsman on the QT3 forum and ask him to go ahead and submit a pretender.


Huntsman said:
Sorry folks but I'm going to have to pull out of this one. I'm going away for 4 days and I don't want to hold it up, especially for the early rounds. Good luck.





If we wait until Pasha is back from his short trip Huntsman will participate. At least i understand his last post this way.


The Panther said:
It is amazing just how hard it is to start a big Dominoons game...


Well this is a very special game. I guess a 17 player slaughtfest on a map like inland would start way quicker http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif.

[Huntsman]

Boron said:

If we wait until Pasha is back from his short trip Huntsman will participate. At least i understand his last post this way.





Correct. I just don't want to hold you guys up befoer the thing even gets started! I'm leaving tomorrow and won't be back until Sunday night. After that, I ain't going anywhere except for a couple long weekends but I should be able to manage those around the 48 hour hosting.

[Turin]

Goblin said:
Being a Newbie and not understanding the potential ramification of the high-powered sites you mention can I just say that: An imbalanced game may be better than none.

Also I thought Almeyan’s suggestion for victory conditions was brilliantly simple (had KISS written all over it).

Regards,
Goblin.



ah, but there is nothing difficult about using a modified mapfile. The host simply has to use it and the changes will affect all the players, without them needing to download the modified map file. The problem is that the site is basically a game winner in the right hands, because it effectively doubles your gem income if you have access to nature/death magic.

So it might be possible that C´tis has it´s capitol directly adjacent to the oak, which would drastically lower the chances of anyone else winning.

[Whollaborg]

I volunteer to fill in a place if you are getting vacant slot for me. I have not played a single multiplayer but i claim to be an expert soloplayer, as i just got proper inet connection.

[Alneyan]

Whollaborg: my spot may be available, but the decision will be up to Panther at the end of the day. I am not particularly eager to play, so don't be afraid to take my spot; even if I wanted another game badly, I could just create my own game, and voilà!

[Whollaborg]

Alneyan,

Thank you for your very kind offer. If Panther decides to let me in i'd promise not to disappoint you.

[The Panther]

Well, it is not quite the end of the day. But I think we need an update from Pasha Dawg on how many pretenders he has. If he has all the pretenders but the one from Huntsman, then I suggest that Whollaborg take that one slot and make a pretender when he is informed from Pasha about the nation. Then we can get the game started right away.

If we are missing more than 1 pretender, then the game will have to be delayed until after both Pasha Dawg and Hunstman return from their time away. This would mean a game start early next week. Since we have already waited a month to get going, what is another few days? This seems attractive at this point instead of trying like heck to get the first turn in before Pasha leaves.

Anyway, Whollaborg can have the first open slot if we don't have all 17 players by the time we want to get going. If we actually end up with 17 players and therefore don't have an open slot, then I have no problem with Whollagborg taking over Alneyan's secret nation.

Note to Pasha: I will have to resend you my pretender when I get home from work today as I am quite certain I forgot the password.

[Alneyan]

I did send a Pretender to Pasha too, just in case, and... Thanks Panther, I have forgotten my own password.

[PashaDawg]

Here is the current list of who sent pretenders.

1. Shmonk: YES
2. Huntsman: Dropping Out?
3. RonD: YES
4. GriffinOfBuerrig: YES
5. Sedna: YES
6. Izaqyos: YES
7. Goblin: YES
8. Turin: YES
9. Jurri: YES
10. Cainehill: YES
11. The Panther: YES
12. Tauren: YES
13. Alneyan: YES, but dropping Out?
14. Bill Paxton: YES
15. Boron: YES
16. Arkas: NO (but, it's coming)
17. King Lear: NO - he tried but no attachment (I sent reminder.)

It seems to me that the best thing would be to postpone the start of the game until after I return (but that would realistically be either Wednesday or Thursday of next week). That way, Huntsman can play. Also, I suggest that Whollaborg should take over Alneyan's slot, since Alneyan would prefer to not play. That will give you 17 players.

Nonetheless, I am happy starting the game before I leave. The trick is dealing with turns while I am away.

Pasha

[PashaDawg]

Hi All:

Now I have everyone's pretender except Huntsman.

Whollaborg is waiting in the wings. If we delay, he could take Alneyan's slot. If we do not delay, then he could take Huntsman's.

Let me know.

Pasha

[RonD]

It seems kind of pointless to rush in a 1st turn, and then wait out Pasha's camping trip. To me, anyway.

[The Panther]

I agree with Ron. We no longer have enough time to start the game and try to get it safely migrated to the JM server (if that is what we want to do).

We have waited a month and we might as well wait a few more days. Summer is always tough getting things going because of vacations.

[King Lear]

Heh, good call panther. I for one appreciate the few more days. I'm house-sitting for a cousin, and thus lack my computer (oh for a laptop). That being said, I gave very detailed descriptions to my brother on what he should do if the game had gotten started =)

I'll check the forum again on Wed a week. Happy summer to every one

[PashaDawg]

Very good. I will check in again when I get back from the lake next week.

[Shmonk]

FYI... I'm back, and looking forward to this game.

[Huntsman]

I'm back too. Will get my pretender in before midnight tonight! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Whollaborg]

Looking forward as well!
And thanks again Alneyan http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Huntsman]

Pretender sent. Looking forward to getting trounced by the pros! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif

[The Panther]

Except for the wee problem that you will not know if it a pro trouncing you or a beginner or an average Joe like me!

[Huntsman]

The Panther said:
Except for the wee problem that you will not know if it a pro trouncing you or a beginner or an average Joe like me!



I'm praying for neighbors that are: a) newbies and b) friendly. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Then I might have a chance to see turn 20.

[PashaDawg]

Ok! I am back.

Is it safe to assume that Whollaborg will take Alneyan's slot?

I will let him know his nation, and then we could probably start this sucker tomorrow!

Pasha

[Shmonk]

Yeehaw!!!!!

[PashaDawg]

Yip-yip-yay! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/icon42.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Dagger.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Dagger.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Dagger.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Dagger.gif
Yip-yip-yay! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/icon42.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Dagger.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Dagger.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Dagger.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Dagger.gif
Yip-yip-yay! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/icon42.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Dagger.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Dagger.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Dagger.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Dagger.gif
Yip-yip-yay! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/icon42.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Dagger.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Dagger.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Dagger.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Dagger.gif
Yip-yip-yay! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/icon42.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Dagger.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Dagger.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Dagger.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Dagger.gif

[Whollaborg]

Let the game start!

[Huntsman]

Don't forget to grab Turin's latest Hero mod v1.2, released yesterday.

[Shmonk]

Hmm... I'm assuming we won't use the new hero mod, only because most of us sent in our pretender a week or so ago, and we would all need to resubmit with the new hero mod. But, if it's decided to use the new mod, I'm fine with that too, I can quickly remake my pretender when I get home from work.

[The Panther]

The hero mod will not affect any pretenders. No need to remake anything with the v1.2 upgrade. You just need it in your mod folder to run the game.

[Cainehill]

Yeah, all it does is slightly increase a couple of the heroes that might or might not show up. (For instance, a couple may now have a sword of sharpness, etc.) Doesn't affect the pretenders at all, nor does it change the spell casting heroes enough to affect nation design choices.

[Shmonk]

Oh, my mistake. I guess that would be logically correct, if it doesn't affect scales, magic, or pretender, it's not necessary to remake a pretender to use the new mod. So in this case, it's kind of like a map, as long as it's in the correct folder, it will be used. Got it.

[PashaDawg]

Ugh! I knew there would need to be a problem.

I was getting the game set up, but when I hit "create new game" (after putting all your pretenders in the Newlords folder), I get an error "wrong gnumber" (with that spelling).

Does this have something to do with CD Key numbers?

Also, I notice that Arkas's pretender is 7k while all other pretenders are only 1k. Is it possible that Arkas accidentally sent the wrong pretender file (e.g., sent a pretender file from another game)?

Pasha

[PashaDawg]

I sent an email to Arkas to inquire.

[Huntsman]

PashaDawg said:
Ugh! I knew there would need to be a problem.

I was getting the game set up, but when I hit "create new game" (after putting all your pretenders in the Newlords folder), I get an error "wrong gnumber" (with that spelling).

Does this have something to do with CD Key numbers?

Also, I notice that Arkas's pretender is 7k while all other pretenders are only 1k. Is it possible that Arkas accidentally sent the wrong pretender file (e.g., sent a pretender file from another game)?

Pasha



A quick search returned this quote from Johan:




gnumber = game number, but that won't make much sense either I think.

My guess is that something wicked has crept into your newlords folder. Erase your entire newlords folder and it might just work.



See thread here (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=241616&page=&view=&sb=5&o =&fpart=2&vc=1)

I think you're right about Arkas's pretender file.

[Alneyan]

If memory serves, gnumber is when you use an order .2h file, and not a Pretender .2h file; 7k is way too big to be a Pretender, but it can be a small order file. I had the same problem in another game, and I'm pretty sure it was the gnumber message.

Whollaborg: Heh, you're welcome; I guess I will just create a game when I feel like getting into a new game (once my current game, Song of the Blade, is over)

[Arkas]

Yeah, i was playing a test game out with my faction. It probably is from a game in action. I will modify the pretender and resend when i get home tonight.

[Cainehill]

Remember, you send the nation.2h file from the newlords directory, not from a game directory.

[Huntsman]

Arkas said:
Yeah, i was playing a test game out with my faction. It probably is from a game in action. I will modify the pretender and resend when i get home tonight.



There's really nothing to modify. As Cainehill said, just go to your \newlords folder and your unmodified pretender for your nation will be there. Just send it off and away we go! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Cainehill]

Well - if he hasn't created another pretender for that nation since then. Arkas might want to start a game with the pretender just to make sure it's the one he thinks it is (with the _default_ pretender name, etc).

[PashaDawg]

Ok. I have everyone's pretenders. I will get the game started!

It is my understanding that the map folder is not being modified. I just need to get the victory conditions right.

[The Panther]

You will have to use the modified map (it is included in a previous post) which removes all the preset VP provinces. Then you do the followiong:
1. Click on 'Standard Victory'.
2. Select 'Victory by victory points'.
3. Put the 'Required victory points' to 9.
4. Put the other three slider bars to zero.
5. Click the 'One VP per capitol box'.

And that's it!

[PashaDawg]

Report:

1. Hmmmm. The game says that King Lear's pretender is not a dominions file. I will ask him to send it again. Sorry for the continued delays. The game recognizes everyone elses pretender files.

2. About 4 players did not assign passwords to their pretender files. Does this matter?

3. I did a test run, and I think I have everything right. However, let me make sure I have the correct mods:

- Zen Items 1.0
- Zen Pretender 2.2
- Zen Spells 1.8
- Zen Scales 1.2
- Hero Mod 1.2

4. I assume that the map mod is not being modified. Instead, I need to make sure that victory points are set at 9 (with only victory points in capitols). (I assume that I otherwise set the VP scales to zero and just "click" the "VP in capitol provinces" box.)

Thanks. Sorry for delay.

Pasha

[PashaDawg]

The Panther said:
You will have to use the modified map (it is included in a previous post) which removes all the preset VP provinces. Then you do the followiong:
1. Click on 'Standard Victory'.
2. Select 'Victory by victory points'.
3. Put the 'Required victory points' to 9.
4. Put the other three slider bars to zero.
5. Click the 'One VP per capitol box'.

And that's it!



Ok - thanks. I will find the modified map.

Pasha

[PashaDawg]

Turin said:
I just had a quick look at the mapfile and there´s one thing that I find really bad. province 173 has the oak of ages as a special site which gives an enchantment bonus 50!
And it´s only guarded by an ivy king and a couple of vine ogres/men, so it should be no problem for an early game pretender to take that site. So if you could alter the mapfile and replace it with the mother oak or something similar it would be great.

I have attached a mapfile without victorypoints and which replaces the oak of the ages with the motheroak.



Hi Panther:

I assume that this was the only modified map file. Yes? Or should I keep looking?

Pasha

[PashaDawg]

I think I have the map all set (I did a test). I will try to use the file again that was given to me by King Lear, just in case it works. Otherwise, we wait.

[PashaDawg]

Nope. King Lear's file won't work. I need a new one. I have sent him an email. I will send him a PM too, just in case that works better.

[The Panther]

Yeah, that is the correct map file, I found it also.

The pretenders without passwords: that does not matter for PBEM. However, if we migrate to a server, than that could eventually cause problems. But it is certainly not critical to have passwords in a friendly game. My motto is: Trust your neighbor, but cover your *** anyway. I always use pretender passwords myself.

The mods: those look correct to me.

[PashaDawg]

Should I notify the players who have not given passwords, in case they want to send new ones?

[PashaDawg]

Ok... as a good little host, I sent out emails to the players who did not make passwords for their pretenders.

Hopefully, we can start the game tonight or tomorrow.

[Huntsman]

I resent mine with a password. Thanks for the heads-up.

[Cainehill]

Yeah : Request for Dom-3 :Allow passwords to be added/changed during the game.

[PashaDawg]

Excellent idea!

Also, it would be nice to be able to easily review the stats of various pretenders.

[Jurri]

I'd say get a passworded pretender from everybody. If it's not too much trouble, Pasha could recreate the pretenders lacking a password with passwords of his own devising, thus saving us the wait.

I trust everyone implicitly, as this is only a game, with little value on victory or defeat. The problem is, if the players that don't have a password on their pretenders don't have this trust, they are more than likely going to ruin the game for everybody sooner or later, if things don't go their way. (It can't be my strategy that is at fault: it must be my enemy viewing my turns! Hence, I will quit.)

[PashaDawg]

As an update:

I have received 3 replacement pretenders for those that had no password.

I am still waiting for King Lear to reply to my email and PM yesterday about needing a replacement pretender (because Dominions is rejecting it).

By the way, does it matter what I call the new map? It is necessary that all players name the modified map the same? If yes, what are we naming the map?

Pasha

[Alneyan]

PashaDawg said:
By the way, does it matter what I call the new map? It is necessary that all players name the modified map the same? If yes, what are we naming the map?





Yes, it does. You must call it "IloveAlneyan.map", or else it just won't work; trust me.

You can call the .map file anything you want, and the players won't need it; it is only used to create the game, so you can delete it once the game is underway (after a few turns have run). You do not need to alter the name of the .tga file either, and you shouldn't do so.

[PashaDawg]

Ok.

I have new pretenders from the folks that had not included passwords. Now, I am only waiting on King Lear to respond.

Pasha

[King Lear]

k Pasha, I've sent it again. I have no idea why it didn't work last time.

[PashaDawg]

Hmmmm. The new file sent by King Lear does not work. The program claims that it is not a "dominions file." Any suggestions? Ugh!

[Alneyan]

Pretender files are supposed to be around 0.3 kb; is the size of his file more or less correct? And what exact error message is given? I think I recall that one, but...

[PashaDawg]

Nagot gick fel!

not a Dominions file


(King Lear's file is about 512 bytes, while all of the others are about 290 bytes. Perhaps, he is not taking his file from the Newlords file? I sent him an email with that suggestion.)

Pasha

[Alneyan]

0.5 kb is too much, I think: even a Pretender with lengthy titles does not get above 0.35, so I guess there's something odd in the file. Maybe it was created with the demo, or was made with a mod adding new pretenders, or some such.

It's not big enough to be an order file though, as even an empty turn 1 order file weights more than 3 kb.

[Cainehill]

Or it isn't being sent as a proper attachment due to error on his or his email client's part, or he's sending one from the Dom3 beta, or Space Empires, or a file from Minesweeper.

Hard for anyone to really say, since due to the anonymous nature of the game you can't actually tell us what you received.

If you look at the raw data of the email message, it should have something akin to this (my pretender file for Undead game, emailed to myself):

<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>
--Message-Boundary-1026
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-disposition: inline
Content-description: Attachment information.

The following section of this message contains a file attachment
prepared for transmission using the Internet MIME message format.
If you are using Pegasus Mail, or any other MIME-compliant system,
you should be able to save it or view it from within your mailer.
If you cannot, please ask your system administrator for assistance.

---- File information -----------
File: tienchi.2h
Date: 21 Jul 2005, 22:02
Size: 307 bytes.
Type: Unknown

--Message-Boundary-1026
Content-type: Application/Octet-stream; name="tienchi.2h"; type=Unknown
Content-disposition: attachment; filename="tienchi.2h"
Content-transfer-encoding: BASE64

AQIERE9NEDsAANQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAP////8PAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAhKjgjID0rPE8ZqijWFng5
MAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAtAAFAP///////wAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA/////wAdKisq
KiIqPU8AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD/////////////AAAAAAAAAAAAAP////////////8A
AAAAAAAABgQAAAQDCQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD
AgED/f8DID0rbyApbwIuKCIuY28HKm8YJyBvHDsgIypvOycqbwkmPSp jbx8qPTwqLDo7ID1v
LiErbwsqPDs9IDYqPW8gKW8WIDo7J08jAAAABAAAAHsAAADAfQ ==

--Message-Boundary-1026--
</pre><hr />

[The Panther]

King Lear should try to zip the pretender file and resend it. Sometimes email servers does odd things to files in the clear.

[Boron]

The Panther said:
King Lear should try to zip the pretender file and resend it. Sometimes email servers does odd things to files in the clear.


According to his profile King Lear is from Austin and according to wikipedia he then either lives in Kanada or the Usa.
So a compatriot could suggest a 100% working email company for King Lear and he uses this one then.
Having to zip every turnfile is way too much work, at least i would be too lazy to zip all my turnfiles http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif.

[Huntsman]

Boron said:

The Panther said:
King Lear should try to zip the pretender file and resend it. Sometimes email servers does odd things to files in the clear.


According to his profile King Lear is from Austin and according to wikipedia he then either lives in Kanada or the Usa.
So a compatriot could suggest a 100% working email company for King Lear and he uses this one then.
Having to zip every turnfile is way too much work, at least i would be too lazy to zip all my turnfiles http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif.



Where's Kanada? /threads/images/Graemlins/Cold.gif

[Boron]

Huntsman said:
Where's Kanada? /threads/images/Graemlins/Cold.gif


Just in case that this wasn't meant as a small joke Kanada is german for Canada http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif.

[King Lear]

The file is coming out of my newlords directory: countryname.2h. It is 4 kb when I send it. i've played in pbem games before, so I'm not quite sure what's up. Suggestions? Of course, I could just send the specks for it to zooko if you think that would work.

[Cainehill]

What's the size when you look at it in the newlords directory itself, the file itself before you send it? If it's over 1K (that's what Windoze shows it as - they're really 200-400 bytes) there's probably something wrong with it, verifiable by starting a new game with that nation.

Try to make sure your email program (which is what, by the way? So people can give better advice.) is getting it as an attachment, and using Mime encoding and not, mmm, UUEncode or somesuch (Mac's and a few other machines used a variant encoding for mail / Usenet that couldn't easily be handled on Intel machines). And as someone pointed out, if you make a zip file containing the pretender and mail the zip file, that might work better.

[PashaDawg]

Hi All:

Ok. I now have pretenders for everyone, including King Lear. Whew!

Now... the problem is that 3 pretender STILL don't have passwords, even after being resubmitted. Isn't that goofy? What's up with that? Ugh! Why is this particular game cursed with these particular difficulties?

Lack of passwords could prove problematic if the game is ever on a server.

Pasha

[PashaDawg]

Nevermind. Only 1 pretender is still without a password. I have sent an email to the player in question. Then, I do believe we will be able to get this game going!

[Cainehill]

I think all games are plagued with problems like people not putting passwords on the pretenders, it's just that this game you're checking on the passwords. That, and with 17 players, there's that many more people to do something wrong compared to a game with 6-10.

As I said - it'd be nice if you could set or change a password after pretender creation (so that if I'm using "password" for my password, but have to tell someone who's going to sub for me, I can change all the others). Or if it prompted you for a password when saving, just to remind people, who could still leave it without a password.

(Oh, and if you could change the password, then you could change just the one you're having someone substitute in, and not have to change all the others.)

[Shmonk]

Almost there... just 1 more day (at the most, I hope).

[The Panther]

Cainhill - You are dead right on. I have done or seen pretty much everything you said in your post.

[King Lear]

You were rite panther, zipping it took care of the file problem. Good call

[PashaDawg]

Ok. The curse continues. One player needed to send me a password'ed pretender file, but he sent me a file for the wrong nation (and I did not notice until too late and screwed up my backups). So, now I need new pretenders from both players.

By the way, I leave for Chicago on Thursday - Saturday. However, Alneyan has agreed to play substitute host while I am away. I will make sure he knows all the necessary details and has the necessary files.

Pasha

[RonD]

Thanks for all your work on this, Pasha. I, for one, really appreciate the fact that you're going through all this hassle just so that 17 other people can have fun.

[Cainehill]

Heh. Any bets on how many players, when the game is started, will turn out to have forgotten their passwords, necessitating another restart or two? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

And yes - thanks Pasha; hopefully you're in criminal law, so all evidence of human foibles will serve you in good stead. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Shmonk]

I was soo tempted to remake my pretender over the weekend, because Oceania has so many good choices for a pretender. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

And I'd take that bet Cainehill, but I can see it happening too, then we have another small delay. Thus, I wrote my password down so I wouldn't forget.

[King Lear]

oh for the days when we could simply rely on people's honesty =) No matter, and Pasha, great job

[PashaDawg]

Thank you... thank you... it's fun to actually look at everyone's pretenders, etc.

[Boron]

PashaDawg said:
Thank you... thank you... it's fun to actually look at everyone's pretenders, etc.


Who has made the most creative pretender in your opinion ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[PashaDawg]

Hmmmm... I cannot answer that question quite yet. I would need more time to review them. But, I would be happy to do that. However, I dare say that the real creativity would not become apparent until the pretenders were finally put into action! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

[PashaDawg]

I am still waiting on the 2 pretenders. I sent 2nd reminders just in case they got lost.

[Huntsman]

Boron said:

PashaDawg said:
Thank you... thank you... it's fun to actually look at everyone's pretenders, etc.


Who has made the most creative pretender in your opinion ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif



Well, if by "creative" you really mean "shockingly stupid" then that would be mine. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/fear.gif

[Cainehill]

The ones that weren't recognized as pretender files were probably the most creative. Heh.

[PashaDawg]

I'm still waiting on one pretender. Ugh!

[PashaDawg]

Ok. I have sent all of the files to Alneyan, and he will be the host while I am away. I will check in tonight, but I fly to Chicago first thing tomorrow morning.

[Alneyan]

So please forward the files Pasha requested to me, or else... well, something nasty will happen.

[PashaDawg]

We are still waiting on a particular player to send in a replacement pretender. He should know who he is, because I have sent him a bevy of emails and a PM.

See ya all on Saturday!

[Alneyan]

I got the last file, so you should get your turns in the next hour or so.

[Alneyan]

Except, of course, that there is a problem: I do not have the latest Zen mods (not all of them anyway), and Arryn's site seems to be down at the moment. Could someone please forward all mods (just to be sure) to me? Thanks.

[Goblin]

Just over 6 weeks to start a game - seems like a long time to me. I just hope I last that long in the game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Goblin

[Alneyan]

Well, Zen's site did have one of the mods I missed, and I had downloaded the other one (but forgotten all about it), so the game is now started.

[WraithLord]

Wow!

Yeehhee http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Turin]

heh the pretender names are kinda interesting http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif .