Balanced System Mod - 2.0

[geoschmo]

Finally finished.

Download it Here! (http://seiv.pbw.cc/Download/filelib/1276/BalancedSystemMod20.zip)

This version of the Balanced System Mod is for use with version 1.94 Deluxe. Maps created using this mod will work with Version 1.91, and the mod should function with version 1.91, however, due to a bug with the 1.91 map editor, you will not be able to create maps in the map editor. You can create maps in new game quadrant screen and edit them in the map editor. This bug does not affect version 1.94 and the mod can be used either in the map editor or in game using deluxe version 1.94.

Produces random, balanced and equal systems for use in competative games such as KOTH.
This is a "host only" mod. Files are only used when first turn is created. Games started using this mod are perfectly compatible with stock Se4.

For both Balanced and Equal quadrant types, the planet values will range between 80 and 120.

Notes for the Balanced Mod types:
There are 14 planets in each system. One for each combination of physical type and atmosphere.
There are no nebulae, asteroid or black hole systems.
Each system is balanced so that there are anywhere from 19 to 37 facility spots available. The exact number in each system will depend on the players choice of atmosphere/planet type and will be randomly dispersed through out the quadrant. The average number of facility spots per quadrant for Rock and Ice players is approximatly 27(minimum 19, maximum 35), while the average for Gas Giant players is 32(Minimum 27, maximum 37). This greater number of facility spots for Gas Giant players is offset by the fact that there will only be four useable planets per system while the rock and ice players will have 5.

The decision on which atmosphere/planet type a player chooses depends on whether they want an average of more facility spots (Gas Giant) or more space yards(Rock/Ice), whether they want more planets(Rock/Ice) or a fewer number of larger planets(Gas Giant)

The Balance quadrants do have moons, but they are not all none atmosphere moons. Any planet type can have a moon but only Medium and larger planets can have moons. Only small and tiny worlds can be moons, therefore there are no Gas Moons. There can only be one moon per sector, so there will be no planets with two moons.

Occasionally, your homewolrd may have a moon.

There are two asteroids and two storms per system.

Equal system types from Balance Mod 1.2 are still included in the mod. They work the same as before, only the planet values range between 80 and 120.

[geoschmo]

So, has anyone had a chance to try this out yet? Any comments? Do you like it better than or less than the previous version?

[Suicide Junkie]

What does the map analyser have to say about population modifiers, resource generation and such?


--Balanced Random--
Apparently vaccuum breathers get the shaft in all categories at max tech... that's because gas colonization is nearly useless to them, while rock/ice colonization is still useful for gas natives.

If vaccuum breathers are ignored, the atmospheres are all perfectly fair.
Gas gets only 84.5% of the spaceyard rate compared to rock/ice, but gets almost exactly 125% of the resource rate.

In terms of racial points to get those modifiers, Gas is worth more. -16% to SY costs 375. +20% to minerals alone costs 500 (+25 to just minerals costs 1000)

-

--Equal Random--
Vaccuum breathers still get shafted, of course.
But planets/pop/facils/SY rate, and resource rate are all exactly equal among all non vaccuum breather races.

[Slynky]

geoschmo said:
So, has anyone had a chance to try this out yet? Any comments? Do you like it better than or less than the previous version?

As you would probably figure, I'd be interested. Till now, somehow, I missed the original post.

To clarify (I think)...

There will only be ONE moon in any given system, correct?

Can a person choos NONE as their atmosphere type now (which would be a change over version 1.2)?

In summary, if I understand correctly, this version of the Balance mod varies generation a bit to still whet the appetite of the person who likes exploring yet NOT so varied that it should affect game balance too much. Would that be a fair saying?

[geoschmo]

Suicide Junkie said:
--Balanced Random--
Apparently vaccuum breathers get the shaft in all categories at max tech... that's because gas colonization is nearly useless to them, while rock/ice colonization is still useful for gas natives.



This is true with stock as well right? This particular problem didn't even occur to me. I can't even think of a way to balance this.



Suicide Junkie said:Gas gets only 84.5% of the spaceyard rate compared to rock/ice, but gets almost exactly 125% of the resource rate.


Cool. This is what I was aiming for.




Slynky said:

There will only be ONE moon in any given system, correct?



No. There can be only one moon per sector, so none of those planets with two and three moons orbiting them. But more than one planet per system can have a moon.


Slynky said:
Can a person choos NONE as their atmosphere type now (which would be a change over version 1.2)?



Yes. You do lose the stock advantage NONE races have of being the only race able to fully exploit the moons, since the moons are pretty equally distributed among the five atmosphere types. But the idea was to make them no worse of a choice then the other races. As SJ points out though that won't be true in a high tech start. And I guess it could be a problem later in a low tech start game as the other colony techs are researched. By then though I guess you can snag some atmosphere breathers from another player. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif


Slynky said:
In summary, if I understand correctly, this version of the Balance mod varies generation a bit to still whet the appetite of the person who likes exploring yet NOT so varied that it should affect game balance too much. Would that be a fair saying?

That was my goal. I hope I achieved it.

Geoschmo

[Suicide Junkie]

While still remaining compatible with stock, it will be difficult.

You would probably have to use somewhat more of a trial and gradual refinement system with heavy use of the map analyser.

What you might do is to add some more none-atmosphere planets & moons.
Then decrease the number of atmosphered rock/ice planets to compensate.
You would be trying to keep the total benefits for breathing rock/ice races the same while adding to the vaccuum breather stats.

In any event, gas giant races will be unique from rock/ice breathers, and also unique from vaccuum breathers.
The trick is then to make those three classes of race all be fairly balanced between each other.

[Atrocities]

Map Analyser.. what is this? And what does it do?

[Slynky]

I really didn't think there was anything wrong with leaving the NONE (atmos-type) out of the equation and only using atmospheres. If I understand the dilemma a bit, I'd say quit worrying about balancing the NONE types and generate ONLY NONE atmos-type moons while telling any players considering NONE atmos-type to forget it. In this version, the moons only become useful as a single-fac place to post a refuel station, SY, or a single training facility (which helps out stopping the 2-moon/planet NONE atmos-types building both training facilities on all three places).

Just a thought. (grin) I'm reminded of the times I took it upon myself to write a program to do a function people wanted and when I took the time to do it, I got a lot of, "Can you add this?" or "Change this to..." http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif (poor Geo)

[geoschmo]

Suicide Junkie said:
What you might do is to add some more none-atmosphere planets & moons.
Then decrease the number of atmosphered rock/ice planets to compensate.
You would be trying to keep the total benefits for breathing rock/ice races the same while adding to the vaccuum breather stats.





This would be fairly easy to do, but it would give the none races an advantage over the other rock/ice races, at least at the start of a low-tech game. So would the goal be to try to make it so by the time all colony techs are researched they are balanced with the other breathers, which would mean they have a considerable advantage at the beginning? Or merely for them to start out with a slight early advantage which would turn into a slight late disadvantage instead of the large disadvantage they have now?

However you go with balancing the none races, you still have the problem of high tech versus atmosphere only starts though. If you design it so they balance in one, they will be at an advantage or disadvantage in the other.



Slynky said:
Just a thought. (grin) I'm reminded of the times I took it upon myself to write a program to do a function people wanted and when I took the time to do it, I got a lot of, "Can you add this?" or "Change this to..." http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif (poor Geo)

If I didn't want that I wouldn't have asked for feedback. It did take a considerable amount of work to put the 2.0 version together. Most of that was time spent doing it the wrong ways. Once I figured out what didn't work, what did work didn't take all that long to do. Further tweaks to the system shouldn't be too difficult. I'd rather do that then have people not use it and get nothing in return for the work I put into it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[geoschmo]

Atrocities said:
Map Analyser.. what is this? And what does it do?

This is a cool program SJ wrote that parses a mod's data files and calculates the odd's for different combinations of atmosphere/planet types to see if it is balanced for all types of races.

[geoschmo]

There is one thing that I'm a little confused about regarding moons. I have noticed that occasionally a player will start with a moon in orbit around their homeworld. On one hand I don't think this is such a bad thing, but it might be an advantage for the player that gets one and noone else does. I can understand why it happens based on why the moons are placed in the mod. When it comes time to place the players homeworld, the game looks in the system for an available planet of the correct atmosphere and size and uses that if available before creating a new planet. If that planet has a moon then the players homeworld gets a moon. I've seen other mods that have this "feature" as well.

What I can't figure out thinking about it now is why this never occurs using the stock data files. What is it about the stock system types that prevents this? Has anyone figured this out?

Geoschmo

[Slynky]

Maybe the stock deployment doesn't use an existing planet. Maybe it always creates another one. For example, that's what it HAS to do if one edits a map and clicks on a sector to tell the game where a starting point is. When I set those maps up, I always clicked a blank sector.

[geoschmo]

If you put a starting point in a blank sector in the map editor it will create a planet. It will also create one if it can't find a suitable size and atmosphere, as in the case a lot of times if you do a good planet start, especially a multi planet start. But there are cases where it will use an exsisting planet. I'm just not sure of all the logic it goes through to make the decision.

There are also cases where it will change the atmosphere of an existing planet to use it as a homeworld. For example if you place a starting point in a sector that has a planet, but of the wrong atmosphere.

[Slynky]

Sounds like the stock "homeworld placement routine" is a bit more detailed than what you can do in a mod, then. Of course, what do I know, anyway?

[douglas]

Homeworlds never have moons in stock because all moons are around Huge planets, while even good homeworlds are never bigger than Large. I checked stock SystemTypes.txt, and every single planet that has a corresponding "Same As X" position moon is specified as Huge.

[Fyron]

Slynky said:
Sounds like the stock "homeworld placement routine" is a bit more detailed than what you can do in a mod, then.

This is not moddable in any way. All modders can do is change the stuff on the map, but not how SE4 routines use it.

The solution is to either only have moons orbiting huge (or tiny) planets, or to mark systems with moons orbitting large, medium or small planets as not allowed for home systems.

[geoschmo]

Ooooo. That makes perfect sense. Somehow I never noticed that all moons in stock orbited huge planets. duh http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Slynky]

geoschmo said:
Ooooo. That makes perfect sense. Somehow I never noticed that all moons in stock orbited huge planets. duh http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Might as well form a line... I never noticed that detail, either.

[Slynky]

geoschmo said:
So, has anyone had a chance to try this out yet? Any comments? Do you like it better than or less than the previous version?

We'll be using it for the KotH game. Thanks for making something with a bit more excitement without losing a lot of equality.

[Rollo]

I wonder if i may include this into DevnullMod Gold?

I am writing a little Quadrant Type Installer utility right now, and more than than just two options (Classic and FQM) would be nice to have =).

[Rollo]

..@ <--tumble weed


I interpret this as silent approval =).

[geoschmo]

Actually, I hadn't seen your post. But you may interpret my lack of response as approval. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif