OT- Honour Harrington movie

[Randallw]

Personally I didn't like the Honour Harrington book I tried reading once, but I know there are some fans here.

http://www.aintitcool.com/display.cgi?id=22073

[sachmo]

Neat!

[Baron Munchausen]

Very interesting. Given the 'formulaic' nature of the stories I suppose it has the potential to spawn a lot of sequels if they get the first one right.

[ZeroAdunn]

The first one was pretty good, but the series didn't seem to go anywhere. If it wasn't for the very descriptive space combat I would probably consider them utter crap.

[AgentZero]

More or less agreed. The whole series has been criticized (can't be arsed spelling at 1:40am) for flat characters & lack of development, but the space battles are just so gosh-darn sweet. Still I read War of Honor a while back and it was nothing but politics, intrigue, unrequited love, etc and I spent the whole book thinking, "Shut up and BLOW SOME S*** UP!!" So there you have it.

[Randallw]

Hmm perhaps I'll need to give it another go. The one I read started with 2 people by a fire talking about her being captured or something and there was some sort of talking cat. I gave up.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

It's one of those series where, if you can't or don't want to follow a few dozen characters, you're quickly going to get bored.

As far as I can tell, DW wants to do a huge, epic, rebirth-of-civilization...Epic.

I've followed the plot, and from the looks of things, a lot of things are going to come crashing down if the right strings get pulled.

But yeah, there are a *Lot* of books.

[Phoenix-D]

Randallw said:
Hmm perhaps I'll need to give it another go. The one I read started with 2 people by a fire talking about her being captured or something and there was some sort of talking cat. I gave up.



You started toward the end of the series. Find On Basilisk Station; it starts the series and is a better book, to boot.

(except for one excruciatingly badly timed infodump near the end)

[Starhawk]

I like DW but i mainly want him to hurry up and make a fourth book to the DAHAK series I want to know how it ends Damn it!

BUt yeah HH is a good series if you like epics that have more then just war....stuff goes boom.....war. You have to like finance and politics which is okay with me as this kind of thing does interest me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I also like the fact that he doesn't do the Star Trek thing and pull starships out of his ear, they actually have to be BUILT, crewed and repaired.

[mrscrogg]

I think Lucy Lawless of " Xena " fame would make a perfect Honor Harrington

[Baron Munchausen]

mrscrogg said:
I think Lucy Lawless of " Xena " fame would make a perfect Honor Harrington



But can she look convincingly part-Chinese? Honor Harrington's mother is Chinese, remember. So she's constantly described as having these very 'angular' features. I think probably Carrie Ann Moss is the only 'name' actress who might fit the part, though she's not nearly as tall as Lucy Lawless. But you never know if some 'unknown' couldn't be found.

[Kana]

Well she is supposed to be young looking considering the prolong treatment...how about Kristin Kreuk from WB's Smallville? She has some asian ancestory (Indo-Chinese)...She would be to short though...it would probably have to be someone tall and with a strong personality...

Kana

[El_Phil]

Perfect hollywood material. Hero who always wins and conflicts with authority figures who are wrong while she is (almost) always right. And lots of big explosions.

Frankly I'd be surprised if it failed, that's not to say I think it's any good but it's simple and formulaic with plenty of potential for money spinning sequels. Movie execs love that.

[Starhawk]

El-Phil can you EVER be positive about anything or is that just not in your friggin nature?

Anyway as to a good Honor Harrington I think they'd probobly have to find a half chinese actress (which means short btw) and just use a lot of camera tricks to make her look tall.

I mean no offense here but 99 percent of the asians I've met are about 5'3-5'4 tops and I'm fairly short at only 5'10 and even I am taller hehI only know one half-chinese half-caucasian girl and though she's taller then most of the other "asians" I've met she still tops off at only about 5'7 which is still too short to be a Harrington. so finding a half asian actress that doesn't fit the "asian" characterastic of being more petite then a westerner would probobly be a royal pain.

[Renegade 13]

El-Phil can you EVER be positive about anything or is that just not in your friggin nature?


Sometimes the world requires cynicism.

[Baron Munchausen]

Starhawk said:
El-Phil can you EVER be positive about anything or is that just not in your friggin nature?

Anyway as to a good Honor Harrington I think they'd probobly have to find a half chinese actress (which means short btw) and just use a lot of camera tricks to make her look tall.

I mean no offense here but 99 percent of the asians I've met are about 5'3-5'4 tops and I'm fairly short at only 5'10 and even I am taller heh I only know one half-chinese half-caucasian girl and though she's taller then most of the other "asians" I've met she still tops off at only about 5'7 which is still too short to be a Harrington. so finding a half asian actress that doesn't fit the "asian" characterastic of being more petite then a westerner would probobly be a royal pain.



Playboy playmate (December 2000) Cara Michelle (Meschter) is either part-Hawaiian or part-Chinese, not sure which, and 6' 2" -- the right height to play Honor Harrington!!!

(Warning, not suitable for prudes... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif )
http://www.centerfold-babes.net/pb/cara-michelle/cara07.html

Now, does she have acting ambitions? I dunno, but plainly not all Asian-Caucasian girls are short! There could be an actress out there who has the right 'look' and the right height.

Edit: Yes, she's listed as an actress on IMDB, though she's only had 'extra' parts so far. Hmm, maybe she ought to be on the auditions list for the HH movie?

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0581799/

[Renegade 13]

Sounds like the woman for me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Haven't checked the pics mind you.

[El_Phil]

She is indeed easy on the eye, which is never a bad thing. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Starhawk, me old matey, cynicism is good for the soul. It's also normally always right with the advantage that when you are wrong it's normally a nice change.

Case in point: Serenity. A series of joy that was cancelled and a movie that just broke even. It'll be a brave movie exec who makes a sequel. Compare with, say, Lethal Weapon 4. One of the most derivate, predictable films ever made and the only thing stopping part 5 is Mel Gibson has gone barking mad and is making films in Mayan about ancient Mexico.

Hell Rocky VI is in the can and Rambo 4 is on it's way. No brain formulaic movies make money, as do their sequels.

That ain't being negative, it's fact.

[Kamog]

She looks good!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

The nice thing about Lethal Weapon 4 was that Jet Li was in it, though he was a bad guy in that movie.

[Siirenias]

Hmmm...ya think Uma Therman might do a good Honor?

I personally don't have enough faith in today's producers to get it "quite right". In addition, the visuals of a Honorverse battle looks a little like Farscape. It's really not too exciting unless you can empathise with the crew and really feel the tech.

Plus...there is an intimidating amount of non-visual description in the books, and I just know some guy in script writing is going to want to make some of it visible, if only to boost ratings beyond the DW buffs. On the other hand, the series DW did with Steve White, including Shiva Option, is PERFECT for movies. Plus, there's baby eating. The critics will eat it up, or suffer Arachnid domination.

[Randallw]

Shiva Option would have to be a trilogy. The war went for years, and there are 5 Worlds which must be defended to glass.

[Makinus]

Donpt worry about a tall actress for Honor, as long she is a good actress....

See Wolverine, the actor in the movies is not as short as the comics portrait wolverine, but he was perfect to the character.... in fact, one of the best comic/movie renditions to date...

In fact, i found the actors that did professor X and Magneto also perfect... in the bad side, cyclops and storm were bad... Jean Gray was so so...

[Siirenias]

And don't forget the guy who played Frodo. Apparently, he's taller in real life. The real thing is you have to find someone with as strong a personality as Honor, and I think Makeup can supplement the appearance fine enough. Plus, it would allow for a market of Manticoran and Grayson uniforms. I want a Grayson one. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

I'd bet that the Shiva Option trilogy would be better in theares than the Lord of the Rings was. Probably just as long, too.

[El_Phil]

Well what's his name, the guy who played Gimli in LotR was one of the tallest guys on the set. If you put the effort in you can make people look shorter/taller than they actually are.

Hell Tom Cruise is all but a medical midget but that rarely shows in his films. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Siirenias]

Well, there's an eye-opener. That would make him about the same height as me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

If they can make me look tall, then they could make an average-height woman into a giant.

[Baron Munchausen]

Tom Cruise is about 5' 6" or 5' 7" judging by the pictures you see of him in real life with other people of known height. A little bit short for an American man, but not even close to 'midget'. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Yes, I suppose it would be much easier to choose a strong actress and use technology to make her look tall rather than go searching all over for a tall actress who happens to be talented enough. But you never know if you might find a talented unknown who fits the part. Linda Carter with her classic 1940s 'Vargas girl' looks was utterly perfect for Wonder Woman. She could have been lifted from the comic.

[El_Phil]

Assuming he isn't wearing platform shoes or elaborate heightening devices!

When staring in that masterpiece of homo-erotica Top Gun much work was put into making him appear not to be the smallest person in the film. On a good day, in high heels, he might be 5'5". If you squint and he's a fair distance away.

[JAFisher44]

Tom Cruise is 5'7"

I love how people just soak up these Hollywood urban legends. Just so you know, Keanu Reeves has a doctorate in physics, Arnold Schwartzeneger is 5' tall, Vin Diesel is gay, etc.

[geoschmo]

But he's taller standing on the couch. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Kana]

Is he taller on the couch in Risky Business or on Oprah's couch...

Kana

[El_Phil]

He still looks tiny which was my point. The problem with Hollywood Urban legends is that they're rarely as strange as truth.

After Terminator came out if you said Arnie will be "The Governator" or he's only 5ft everyone would have gone for the short option.

[TurinTurambar]

His ego is definitely taller on Opra's couch.

[Xrati]

"Camera angle" is everything in hollywood. If your short then your in front and the camera is below your shoulders AND wolla! YOUR BIG! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif Arnold and Sly are around 5'9" - 5'7" and are always shot from a lower angle to make them appear larger then life! John Wayne always rode a smaller horse to make him appear larger then he was. Hollywood, where anything is possible, even Galaxy's far, far away.

[Baron Munchausen]

Xrati said:
"Camera angle" is everything in hollywood. If your short then your in front and the camera is below your shoulders AND wolla! YOUR BIG! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif Arnold and Sly are around 5'9" - 5'7" and are always shot from a lower angle to make them appear larger then life! John Wayne always rode a smaller horse to make him appear larger then he was. Hollywood, where anything is possible, even Galaxy's far, far away.



Gak! I don't know about Stallone, but Arnold Schwartzenegger is 6'2" - I know this because Arnold was beaten out for 'The Hulk' role by Lou Ferrigno because he is 6'5"! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[geoschmo]

Yep, Sly isn't a tall man. If you ever saw pictures of him with Bridget Nielsen you can see it. If you think about it everybody in the Rocky movies, Carl weathers, Mr. T., Micky, was a little on the short side so he didn't seem too short by comparison. Then in Rocky 4 when they brought our Dolph Lundgren he looked like a giant, but he was only 6'5" or so. But next to Sly he looked 8 feet tall. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

John Wayne was one of the tallest actors in Hollywood though at the time he was working. He was 6'4". Not saying they didn't put him on a small horse to make him look even bigger though. Course it might have been just so they could keep him in the frame with the other actors. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Siirenias]

Ahem...

Hollywood be darned; who do ya think should play Honor? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[JAFisher44]

Sylvester Stallone is 5'10"

[PvK]

El_Phil said:
She is indeed easy on the eye, which is never a bad thing. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Starhawk, me old matey, cynicism is good for the soul. It's also normally always right with the advantage that when you are wrong it's normally a nice change.

Case in point: Serenity. A series of joy that was cancelled and a movie that just broke even. It'll be a brave movie exec who makes a sequel. Compare with, say, Lethal Weapon 4. One of the most derivate, predictable films ever made and the only thing stopping part 5 is Mel Gibson has gone barking mad and is making films in Mayan about ancient Mexico.

Hell Rocky VI is in the can and Rambo 4 is on it's way. No brain formulaic movies make money, as do their sequels.

That ain't being negative, it's fact.



If you say so, but please consider:

* Is there any reason why even derivative sequels _have_ to be so badly made, either for games or for films? Surely with the huge budgets invested, someone could invest some more taste, talent, or other qualities? Do the _have_ to be so bad to make money? Wouldn't they make more money if they were better derivative sequels than they generally are?

* Just because some crappy business practice makes money, doesn't mean I or you or anyone _has_ to care, purchase, or pay any attention to the crappy products. For example, we're still here playing Space Empires IV, a _good_ sequel, and I never even bothered with MOO3, a crappy sequel, or most other low-gameplay megacorp releases, or most Hollywood (i.e. crappy) films.

* By paying for, paying attention to, and mentioning acceptance of such crappy practices, one becomes part of the problem.

PvK

[Siirenias]

PvK has a point. And also, you're more likely to keep your audience and possibly grow it by making a respectable series of movies. Sort of like star wars, only not overbearingly shiney to the point of sacraficing content. Sort of like Harry Potter who, despite my own reservations, is a pretty good example of how to continue a sustainable movie franchise.

[Starhawk]

Yah know who would make a good Honor Harrington http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

http://www.perfectpeople.net/picpage.php3/cpid=83531

Awwwww China http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif


Seriously from what I've seen she's an okay actress and she's fairly tall AND she fits the "good looking Asian/Caucasian" mix that HH would require http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Kana]

China Chow is so hot...and she hasn't done many movies...might actually be a good fit...she can joke, be serious, do action, and be sexy all rolled up in one...and this is just the one film I saw here in with Marky Mark...

Kana

[dogscoff]

I would be interested to see hollywood's interpretation of 'coup de vitesse'. Whoever plays Honor is going to want some martial arts training- preferably in a hard style like shotokan rather than some hollywoodised and flouncy version of kungfu/ tae-kwondo.

I've read the books up to about number 8 or 9 and although I'd make time to watch an Honor film when it made it to TV, I wouldn't bother going to the cinema for it. I don't think a film show me anything that the books haven't already done, and given the shallow and formulaic nature of the books, I find it hard to believe that the films would be particularly enjoyable, except as exploding-CG-dreadnought firework displays.

And what's the betting that they manage to write in at least one gratuitous shower scene for Honor?

And bring forward events from the middle of the series into the first book so that they can have a love interest?

And make Nimitz all cute and fluffy and goofy and lovable, rather than the savage, violent, razor-sharp alien mastermind of a sinister plot to telepathically infiltrate and overthrow humankind?

And make the Peeps EVEN MORE unrealistically evil than they already are? (My money is that they will all be equipped with not-so-subtly-inspired-by-USSR uniforms, along with villainous twirly moustaches and bad-guy facial scarring, with the exception of the legions of brave and handsome Peep officers destined for defection.)

[Starhawk]

Uh never seen Jow Ga kung fu have you? LOL it is just about the hardest combat style of Kung Fu there is (oriented not for grace but for deadly effect). It also incorporates throws breaks and locks that would make Coup De Vitesse come alive http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

As far as the books being shallow I kind of liked them, they do have an "overly evil" enemy but I also understand where the bad guys are coming from, and let's face it they do fit the Soviet style mentality very well.

Hell before I read a review that pointed out the Havenites were supposed to be French inspired I thought they were an analogy for Soviet Russia/Communist China.

And why do bad guys only have to have facial scars? I mean seriously this is something I don't get, what good guys who are injured in battle don't scar?

See that's why my character Rukia Fujita has a deep scar on her face to go against the "only bad guys scar" trend; then again some folks think the Icarans ARE bad so I guess that sort of sticks to the stereotype heh.


Anyway considering the books have gratuitous "Honor nude" scenes I think I could live with that in a movie.....especially with China Chow playing Honor muahahahahem ahem.

Anyway the battles if done well would certainly be something to see, on the ground we'd get one of the biggest gore fests in modern movie making, in space we'd get some of the most epic space battles WITH SOME of the gorriest "real life" representations of death in a warship thrown in.

I think it could come out quite well.

[dogscoff]

Uh never seen Jow Ga kung fu have you? LOL it is just about the hardest combat style of Kung Fu there is




Note that I said "some flouncy version of kung-fu", which acknowledges the existence of other (and therefore non-flouncy) kung-fu styles as well. I'm not saying all kungfu is like that, just some of it.

It's a sad fact that out of all the hundreds of punching/kicking/grappling/throwing/weapons styles available throughout the world, the stuff they use on screen (particularly in Western cinema) tends to be limited to a small subset of showy styles (with lots of pointless and inneffectual jumps, high kicks and stuff.

Anyone ever see a film called "the hunted"? Utterly crap film- One of the worst I've ever seen in my life- but it had some really interesting knife-work from a Malaysian fighting art called (IIRC) balisong. Stylised for film, obviously, but very interesting nonetheless.

[Suicide Junkie]

Hollywood has the same problem with computers, even aside from the rapid tech advancement.

Usually they have something equivalent to that flouncy movie-fu, which makes DOS look great in comparison for those in the know.

[TurinTurambar]

I too am highly annoyed by representations of computers in Hollywood, ESPECIALLY in TV. I love CSI:Miami, but that show has got to be one of the worst possible offenders. It's almost starting to spoil the show for me now, ever since the bullet-in-the-gas-tank-how's-it-going-to-leak simulator from 2 weeks ago.

EDIT: Wow, that's way OT. Sorry.

[Baron Munchausen]

dogscoff said:
I would be interested to see hollywood's interpretation of 'coup de vitesse'. Whoever plays Honor is going to want some martial arts training- preferably in a hard style like shotokan rather than some hollywoodised and flouncy version of kungfu/ tae-kwondo.

I've read the books up to about number 8 or 9 and although I'd make time to watch an Honor film when it made it to TV, I wouldn't bother going to the cinema for it. I don't think a film show me anything that the books haven't already done, and given the shallow and formulaic nature of the books, I find it hard to believe that the films would be particularly enjoyable, except as exploding-CG-dreadnought firework displays.

And what's the betting that they manage to write in at least one gratuitous shower scene for Honor?

And bring forward events from the middle of the series into the first book so that they can have a love interest?

And make Nimitz all cute and fluffy and goofy and lovable, rather than the savage, violent, razor-sharp alien mastermind of a sinister plot to telepathically infiltrate and overthrow humankind?

And make the Peeps EVEN MORE unrealistically evil than they already are? (My money is that they will all be equipped with not-so-subtly-inspired-by-USSR uniforms, along with villainous twirly moustaches and bad-guy facial scarring, with the exception of the legions of brave and handsome Peep officers destined for defection.)



Honor Harrington picks up quite a few 'scars' herself during the series. I wonder if they'll follow the books and have her wearing an eye-patch and artificial limb?

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Well, if they don't, there's going to be an awfull lot of angry people.

Plus, DW isn't exactly a starving artist - I'm pretty sure the studio would have difficulty presuring him.

[Baron Munchausen]

Starhawk said:
Yah know who would make a good Honor Harrington http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

http://www.perfectpeople.net/picpage.php3/cpid=83531

Awwwww China http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif


Seriously from what I've seen she's an okay actress and she's fairly tall AND she fits the "good looking Asian/Caucasian" mix that HH would require http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif



She has the right 'look' for sure... but according to IMDB, China Chow is only 5' 2" tall! Not even close to what we need. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif

[Siirenias]

I always imagined that the PN uniforms were somewhat similar to gray Imperial officer uniforms. And I imagined that they generally had Spanish accents (by the way their accent is described). But I guess that the post-revolution PN would have a much greater variety of accents.

I would imagine they would do okay with Nimitz, as long as they don't get too creative with CGI...

[Starhawk]

RE Dogscoff: Yeah Balisong is pretty cool looking I've seen it in person a few times, it uses a "butterfly" knife traditionally but it can adapt to a different knife style which is cool.

It's one of those "move fast or get stabbed" styles.

And I just don't get holywood with their Flouncy style, I mean personally I was MUCH more impressed with say Serenity's Martial Arts scenes then any others (quick precise and deadly). I would be FAR more impressed by both a Hero and a Villain who are capable of just ending a fight in a matter of seconds with a handful of techniques.

Or even if say you have two equal opponents it gets brutal and fast but I am more impressed by someone who can block and grab and break, then jump and flutter like a freakin bird lol.

I mean a real HtH fight is fast, and brutal, and is even faster and nastier if you WANT to kill someone (break their trachea or many other gruesome yet efficent methods) that take seconds to perform.


Re Baron: Yes but Camera effects http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif you Know in Firefly/Serenity Gina Tores is actually about a foot shorter then the guy who played her husband, but they made him look far shorter then her. So I could live with China Chow playing a tall woman and maybe Lucy Lu playing her mother http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif (Remember Prolong here people I am NOT saying Lucy looks old).

[PvK]

How about an actual talented (non-"name") actress? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Starhawk]

Okay but China is not exactly a big name and she's fairly talented.

[El_Phil]

narf poit chez BOOM said:
Plus, DW isn't exactly a starving artist - I'm pretty sure the studio would have difficulty presuring him.



I remember reading a line in a Puzo novel. Someone had asked a charahter how he bribed cops and judges to let him deal drugs. He replied you just find out their annual salary and then offer them five times that plus bonuses.

And in the scheme of things a 'huge' cheque for DW isn't going to be alot of money compared to the sfx budget. Throw in a promise of a % of earnings (gross if he's naive, net if ne's not) and voila! You've brought yourself an author.

[PvK]

"(gross if he's naive, net if ne's not)"
Backwards?

[Baron Munchausen]

Actually, if he's naive he'll accept a percentage of the profits like Stan Lee did for the Spiderman movies. It's amazing that anyone in the general public, let alone the publishing business, could be so clueless that he wouldn't know movies never make a 'profit'... but Stan Lee didn't and he had to go to court to make Sony share some of the money from the Spiderman movies when he realized his share of the 'profit' was useless.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

The difficulty is that you can ultimatly only bribe someone who's willing to be bribed.

I don't know if DW fits that catagory or not, though. However, he seems to pick up good friends.

[Siirenias]

Remember that, via his writings, DW seems a bit skeptical of the media as a whole. I just love how Andrew LaFollet stares down a newsie in Fields of Dishonor http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Phoenix-D]

I'd hope they get up to Flag In Exile just to see if they have the balls to do the duel the way its done in the book. A nice lead in, a bit of standoff and..its over.