Strategy First acquires Malfador Machinations

[Captain Kwok]

According to Wargamer.com:
http://www.wargamer.com/news/news.asp?nid=3216

Aaron will stay on in a management role for Space Empires. But otherwise I'm not sure what to say at the moment... we'll have to see what word comes from MM, SFI.

[Raapys]

Bah.

"The remarkable, ongoing sales of existing games and the tremendous, built-up anticipation for the release of Space Empires V give us confidence that the intellectual property we have acquired will have long-term value as the preeminent space genre game franchise."

Another cow to milk.

[Renegade 13]

Is this true? Or is it a late April Fools joke...I don't know which to hope for...stunning news to be sure.

[Captain Kwok]

Renegade 13 said:
Is this true? Or is it a late April Fools joke...I don't know which to hope for...stunning news to be sure.

It is definately true.

[shinigami]

I really hate to be the one screaming, "the sky is falling," but this means that it is possible for Aaron to lose control of the franchise in the future.

However, at least a company with a proven track record of listening to the users is the one to aquire it.

[Thermodyne]

I hope this turns out well.....And is not just a way of turning the game into some online FPS-Snipehunt-makebelieveRP game.

[Renegade 13]

Any speculation on what this will do to SE5 and the future of the franchise?

[Fyron]

Rather than speculate, I am awaiting reply from the man himself. I recommend you all do the same (wait, that is).

[Renegade 13]

Imperator Fyron said:
Rather than speculate, I am awaiting reply from the man himself. I recommend you all do the same (wait, that is).


I also fired off an email, and asked Aaron if he would visit us here and explain what this means for the franchise and the future of SE games.

[President_Elect_Shang]

Yoda would say: The future hard to see it is…

I would say: This does not bode well for the future!

I guess I am not as optimistic as Yoda may be. I predict the first few years may be smooth sailing but after that we will all be saying our final goodbyes to each other as the game falls into the gutters.

I have been wrong more than once in my life and I hope this is one of those times.

[Renegade 13]

Even if the franchise dies, it doesn't mean that this forum of these people will go their separate ways. Look already, the OT posts probably outnumber the on topic posts!

[Ed Kolis]

Eh, it probably means he just wants to retire and either there won't be an SE6 or it will suck horribly... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif But really, did we expect him to keep working on Space Empires this long? I was a bit surprised even to hear the official announcement of SE5 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif
Still, I fear that Strategy First might be about to "Crisium" Malfador - i.e. buy out SE5 and then just drop any plans to publish it, much as happened to Crisium's Stars! Supernova... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif It makes absolutely no business sense, though, unless they're developing something of their own which might compete with SE5... in which case we might just be in for a treat rather than a disappointment... you never know...

[President_Elect_Shang]

That’s true and I should have been more clear about my comment; my bad. By go our separate ways I intended to refer to the moding topics and any one who comes here for those bits of insight; how many members that would be I can’t speculate as I have been gone for a very long time. Anyway it was a very poor choice of wording but hay, it is late at night and I am getting sleepy.

[President_Elect_Shang]

Ed Kolis said:
Still, I fear that Strategy First might be about to "Crisium" Malfador - i.e. buy out SE5 and then just drop any plans to publish it, much as happened to Crisium's Stars! Supernova... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif It makes absolutely no business sense, though, unless they're developing something of their own which might compete with SE5... in which case we might just be in for a treat rather than a disappointment... you never know...



You can add the paper back slash board game StarFire to that list. Same deal as you describe; bought the rights than introduced a competing game and killed the old version. In the case of the new version it was a massive disappointment!

[Captain Kwok]

SE:V is getting close to being ready for release so I doubt that would happen. I guess I'm just nervous about the loss of our influence on future patches/titles losing our direct line to Aaron. And the potential that the title might be controlled by someone who isn't familiar with the series.

[Ed Kolis]

Personally I think after SE5, the franchise will have run its course... I mean, what else can you do with it, make a FPS game out of it? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif The only thing left to do is to iteratively improve the game, and while I haven't seen SE5, if it's as good as I think it will be, I think there's not much room for improvement http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Urendi Maleldil]

Actually, it'll probably be a good thing if they have really purchased Malfador. I know we all support Aaron, and he has a tremendous community behind him, but right now Malfador is just a one man show. Creating a game as ambitions as SEV is probably taxing him terribly.

Strategy First is an established game publishing biz with a pretty good reputation. With some financial backing maybe Aaron will finally be able to hire a dedicated development team.

[Ed Kolis]

Established... ok, I can grant you that. Pretty good reputation? I don't think so... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif Not after the bankruptcy debacle http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif
edit: oh, and did I mention their penchant for publishing things which the original developer claims they (SF) no longer have the rights to, such as "Uplink: Hacker Elite"? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

[Rollo]

Lots of doooomsaying going on, as is expected from a message board.

I suggest to relax, have a drink, and see what happens.

This could actually be a move for the better. At any rate, I hope Aaron has gotten a good deal out of this.

[Combat Wombat]

Ed Kolis said:
Established... ok, I can grant you that. Pretty good reputation? I don't think so... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif Not after the bankruptcy debacle http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif
edit: oh, and did I mention their penchant for publishing things which the original developer claims they (SF) no longer have the rights to, such as "Uplink: Hacker Elite"? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif



Theres was thing going on with them selling the orignal GalCiv again witout Stardocks permission, not sure what happened

[President_Elect_Shang]

I have to wonder why nothing is said about this on the MM site?

[Will]

Because Aaron has always been pretty bad about updating his website. Sometimes it seems like he might be afraid of this "Internet" thing, and he just sticks to what he knows best: making good strategy games.

But, I'm a little bit hesitant to believe the article. While it takes some arm twisting for Aaron to update, you would think purchasing a development studio, even one that is basically a one-man house with some contract workers, would make SFI's website in a press release. But, nada.

Until at least one of the parties involved confirms, it's just rumor and hearsay.

[Rollo]

yeah, my thoughts exactly.

I mean, how reliable is Wargamer as a source? They say MM announced it. But how and when? I see nothing on SFirst or MMs website.

[Thermodyne]

Well, if it turns out to be bull droppings, we can all go to kwok's house and let him splain it to us http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Atrocities]

Imperator Fyron said:
Rather than speculate, I am awaiting reply from the man himself. I recommend you all do the same (wait, that is).



If true, I feel a bit betrayed. If not true, they got me. (Praying that it is not true.)

[Atrocities]

A clever well timed April Fools day hoax?


Aaron Hall and Malfador Machinations announced today



Where? Where did he announce this?


"We have monitored the consumer acceptance of the Space Empires franchise since entering into an exclusive distribution and publishing agreement with Malfador in early 2005. The remarkable, ongoing sales of existing games and the tremendous, built-up anticipation for the release of Space Empires V give us confidence that the intellectual property we have acquired will have long-term value as the preeminent space genre game franchise.



"consumer aceptance of the Space Empires franchise since entering into an exclusive distribution and publishing agreement."

Really now, after sitting on the games re-release and only after about seven or eight months of interent sales?

"The remarkable, ongoing sales of existing games and the tremendous, built-up anticipation for the release of Space Empires V"

Oh give me a break, their forums are on life support so what are they basing this off of? Certainly not insider info.

And they are a canadian company. The taxes involved with being employeed by them and working in the US, especially CA, would be a nightmare.

My vote is that this is just a well played, brillant April Fools day hoax. Good job Chris.

[Tim Brooks]

NOTE: I am posting as a concerned fan of the game here, there is no inside info here and these are personal opinions, NOT official Shrapnel Games opinions.

Wow! Interesting, to say the least,huh?


I mean, how reliable is Wargamer as a source? They say MM announced it. But how and when? I see nothing on SFirst or MMs website.



It is also here:
Game Tab (http://www.gametab.com/news/526919/)

And SF is very bad about announcing their own releases. Usually takes them a cople of days to get the 'news' up.


This could actually be a move for the better. At any rate, I hope Aaron has gotten a good deal out of this.



I hope you are right. Every game produced by SF has been a big disappointment, including the JA series. That one was really bad and I liked that series!

Good deal? Hmm, sounds to me like one of three possible scenarios:

1. He made lost of $$$$ and that is why he did this.
2. He was tired of the struggle as an independent developer.
3. He needed the increased support (dollars again) to finish the game.


However, at least a company with a proven track record of listening to the users is the one to aquire it.



Wow, where did that come from? That is not how I would characterize SF. Maybe I've missed something...

Here are my concerns:

1) SF promised SEIV at retail. This hasn't happened to myknowledge. Rumors are that they are having a hard time getting back into retail after the bankruptcy due to distributors still being owed money from before the bankruptcy.

2) They are offering alot of titles at a huge discount through these 6 packs. Titles are not selling and they need cash is my guess.

3) I wonder if they will even be around in 2-3 years. They have already played the reorganization card. Another management slip up and they will have to sell themselves off or close the doors. Of course, SEV alone, if handled properly, will go along way to making them solid.

Good luck Aaron. Pulling for 'ya!

[David E. Gervais]

Read a fuller article here...

Press Release (http://www.marketwire.com/mw/release_html_b1?release_id=121063)

I'm Sure Aaron knows what he is doing, and remember SFI is now fully under the reins od Silverstar Holdings.. Before you bash SFI,.. check out their new boss, Silverstar has an exceptionnal reputation.

Nuf said, cheers!

P.S. Silverstar Holdings (http://www.marketwire.com/mw/release_html_b1?release_id=109925) last public financial report,.. looks like they sitting on 22mil in assets. So I'd say they are here to stay.

[Atrocities]

Ah boy, so its no joke. Well s**t. I guess it was bound to happen sooner or later. It just seems sad somehow that it has happened now. I really have mixed emotions about this and all though I wish Aaron the best, I cannot help the sense I am feeling that something great has just died. Like I just lost my best friend or something. I know, its like he just got married and no longer will be around to hang with. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

I hope he got a load of $$ for this. So David what does this mean for you? Are you still going to part of SE V's future? Are you going to be a part of SFI to?

Thanks Tim, your comments do address some very real concerns about SFI's future. I do wish them the best but I simply don't know.


I guess I'm just nervous about the loss of our influence on future patches/titles losing our direct line to Aaron. And the potential that the title might be controlled by someone who isn't familiar with the series



Yup, you are 100% correct here CK. I am really more so dissapointed over being nervous about the loss of our influence with Aaron and the development of the Space Empires games. I think this is what is eating me up inside at the moment. The thought that SEV is now firmly in the hands of the bean counters, no offense SFI, just seems wrong to me. Its quite possible, in order to save $$, that they will force Aaron into dropping support for the game long before he would have done so if had remaned on his own.

Loosing our direct line to Aaron is something that time will prove to be a truly great loss to us all. However, I do wish Aaron the best of success in his new job and role at SFI. (Say, are they hiring?)

It was a real joy ride we had with the freedom and independence of being part of space empires over the last five and half years. But like all rides, eventually they end. I just hate to see the passing of this era of independent game development.

This seems to be a very sad day for many of us. Its SFI's ball now, so I wish them all the luck in the world.

[Tim Brooks]

NOTE: I am posting as a concerned fan of the game here, there is no inside info here and these are personal opinions, NOT official Shrapnel Games opinions.


Before you bash SFI,.. check out their new boss, Silverstar has an exceptionnal reputation.



http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/confused.gif

If it all it took was a company with huge assests, then all those publishers (remember the movie studios) of late 1980s and early 1990s would own the industry.

Name something that SF has done right since the takeover. They are bundling flawed software into 6 packs, rather than taking it off the market, they are releasing games that need major pathches immediately, they are promising games at retail and not delivering, and they went to Steam. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif

[Atrocities]

The only real games that it would seem they have are the Malfador ones. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif Perhaps it was Aaron who bought SFI and not the other way around.

Tim, I read last week on a gaming site that the independant gaming developer is an ever increasing rare breed. The cost of developing, not to mention learning to code, new pc games has dramatically thinned the hurd in recent years.

Whats your take on the garage game independant scene?

[Tim Brooks]

Whats your take on the garage game independant scene?



You are right. With the hardcore games anyway. You can find tons of arcade style games from independents, but the companies like Malfador are an increasingly rare breed (and Malfador doesn't even exist anymore). We find it very hard to find games we think are worth publishing.

And most of the developers that are out there have expectations that are way beyond the reality of what is possible in the PC Strategy Game Industry. We get requests all the time from companies that want us to fund -- usually to the tune of 6 figures their strategy game (and not the whole game, just the last six months or so of development). A game that has that kind of overhead, won't make money -- the developer or the publisher, not even at retail.

When I was developing wargames for the retail market, this could happen although not very often. Back then a strategy title had about a one in twenty chance of making money at retail with a budget of around $500,000. Now, I bet it is one in 50 and the budget would need to be half that amount. There is a reason why the mainstream publishers are sticking with frnachises or going after movie themed products. They stand a chance, but even then the chance is probably no better than one in twenty.

So the outlook is grim, to say the least, for independent strategy companies. Still it can be done. Illwinter (Dominions Series) is on there way up the ladder -- at a stage that Malfador was at with SEII - really ahead of them, because I think they "get it" and have a plan that is working. Another good example is Digital Eel, they are growing.

But, those developers that think that going into retail with hardcore stratgy is going to make them money -- well that is very rare. Just watch what happens with SEV. If they use retail as their major avenue, it will be in the bargain bins within a month or so, and if not, well then we will have to see. Very few companies can make the retail market work, one that is doing so (but I still think there main income is from web sales) is Stardock. But they have a franchise product in Gal Civ.

I spent too many years at retail and know what that is like. Thus our philosophy at Shrapnel. I only hope that the devs that are out there, making strategy titles, can figure this whole thing out. Or there will be even fewer independents in the next several years.

[dogscoff]

Too late now, but Malfador should have sold shares to us gamers in order to retain a level of independence/ closeness to the community. I'd have bought some.

I think thething to remember is that SE5 has been in beta for months so it ought to be at least playable, if not very close to being finished. That means the new owners, unless they really are mind-bendingly stupid, are unlikely to wreck it with demands for loads of unfavourable new 'features'. I guess they might manage to bury it before release somehow, but in that case I'd be willing to bet a few beta copies made it onto the 'abandonware' circuit shortly after.

[Atrocities]

Thanks Tim.

I just hate to see the independant developer base going exstinct. SFI really did a good thing here by grabbing up Malfador before some other company swooped and snared him.

Besides, Aaron can always form a new company later on if he so choses. The sad thing is, Space Empires, and all things associated with that franchise, are no longer his to control. So the name Phong, now belongs to a new master.

I guess at this point, now that SFI owns the rights to the SE franchise, they can force Shrapnel to end its long, much appreciated, friendship with us by having them discontinue support for this forum.

I would hate to see forum close, all the years of posting here, all of the information, the memories, would be gone. When that day comes, it will be one hard pill to swallow.

[Captain Kwok]

I don't see why they would make Shrapnel close the forums - it's free publicity for Space Empires really. If anything, you'd think Shrapnel would want to close them for that reason. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Raapys]

I'm hoping that they are too late to have any influence on how SEV turns out, so we at least get one more great game not infected with 'mainstream' features to appeal to more people.

[Fyron]

Tim Brooks said:
1) SF promised SEIV at retail. This hasn't happened to myknowledge. Rumors are that they are having a hard time getting back into retail after the bankruptcy due to distributors still being owed money from before the bankruptcy.

Actually, the game has started appearing on shelves in some places in the last few weeks. Quite lame to have taken this long to do it, of course.


Tim Brooks said:
...they are releasing games that need major pathches immediately...

In all fairness, SEIV was in need of patches on release day too. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif But at least that didn't have teams of programmers behind it.

[Caduceus]

I agree that SFI's track record in the last few years ain't so good.

I would love to hear from Aaron about this, perhaps David can get a quote in betweeng flinging pictures on email back and forth.

SE:V is nearing release anyway, so I can't imagine this will change the outcome (release) of that much unless SFI wants to take it in-house for some polish, which if reports of GCII are correct, might not hurt anything.

The question is that what will the future for the series (i.e. the next iteration in four to five years?)

[Atrocities]

"I'm absolutely delighted to be part of the Strategy First family," said Aaron Hall

[dogscoff]

guess at this point, now that SFI owns the rights to the SE franchise, they can force Shrapnel to end its long, much appreciated, friendship with us by having them discontinue support for this forum.




All shrapnel would have to do is rename the forum (For instance, 'The Spice Umpires Chat Forum') and label it as a general forum for miscellaneous off-topic chat. All the archived threads could remain available, and we'd all still hang out here, and no-one can stop us discussing whatever the hell we liked, be it SE-related or otherwise.

Any company that sent in the ambulance-chasers to shut down our forum would very quickly lose the support of the fanbase. I wouldn't want to support them with my cash, that's for sure, although I wouldn't want to do without SE5. What I'd probably do is pirate se5 and send a cheque for the cost of the game to Aaron in the post=-)

(Of course, this is all speculation. I've no reason to believe that they will do anything to force me to take such drastic measures. If the new owners behave nicely and don't hassle Shrapnel and release se5 Just As Aaron Intended, then I'll be only too happy to buy se5 in the conventional manner and support them.)

[Atrocities]

I am not saying that SFI would ever do this, I am just speculating that anything is possible. I have never seen any company, aside from LucasArts, ever go after another game publishers forums. And even then it was for a ligit reason.

So the thing is, will shrapnel wanna keep footing the bill to keep us freeloaders around? And why should they given that there really is no return on their investment aside from the occational game purchase from one of us. (Looking very forward to Dom3 BTW)

They have been very loyal to us, and we to them, but at some point they might have to think about the bottom line. Not that any of this is anything more than pure 100% fear indused speculation and doom saying.

[Dizzy]

my biggest fear is with mainstream appeal. The publishers want to get the biggest bang for their buck and will broaden the scope of the game to include mainstream users at the expense of anything and everything.

If its a one shot deal, as I surmise it is, I mean how much more polish can you put on the 5th installement of SE, then the publishers wont be concerned with a followup product and thus any support or follow on or add on or support features may be severely lacking, not to mention them possibly recoding much of it so the game isnt easily copied, ported, modded or otherwise so they protect their copyrighted material for any related future release.

Mainstream appeal is the kiss of death for hardcore players used to features and gameplay that allow us to easily mod and enjoy the depth of the game. I'm pessimistic.

[dogscoff]

Walking the line between mainstream and hardcore appeal is difficult and dangerous, since disaster lies on either side: If it strays too far toward the mainstrema it will become so diluted and weak as to become unplayable *cough*MOO3*cough*, or it will go too hardcore and fade into obscurity as it caters for an ever-smaller niche within a niche market. Capturing the best of these two options is difficult, so I suggest that the game branches: Allow Aaron to finish the game and release the first version according to his original design. Allow a few patches to iron out any serious bugs, and then begin the branching- one patch for mainstream, one for hardcore. You'd end up with two games developping in parallel. The mainstream branch would include eye-candy, dumbing-down and stuff like that, while the hardcore branch focussed on improved modding options, greater depth and more features. Sometimes, popular (and suitable) features from one version might migrate across to the other.

The mainstream version would keep the bucks coming in, while the hardcore version would keep the game true to its roots and retain the franchise's credibility and direction. As far as I know this has never been done before, except in open-source games. It's the ideal solution, and now Aaron has a coding house behind him, maybe it could become a reality. Anyone else think this is a cool idea?

[Suicide Junkie]

Well, really, that could be done with a single game, in the case of SpaceEmpires...

You'd have your Rock-Paper-Scissors stock, and your hardcore Carrier Battles / GrittyEconomics mod combos. (To use my own mods as examples)

You could go with a skiing theme, and label all the mods as green circle mainstream, to double black diamond mods for us diehards here.

[Thermodyne]

David E. Gervais said:
Read a fuller article here...

Press Release (http://www.marketwire.com/mw/release_html_b1?release_id=121063)

I'm Sure Aaron knows what he is doing, and remember SFI is now fully under the reins od Silverstar Holdings.. Before you bash SFI,.. check out their new boss, Silverstar has an exceptionnal reputation.

Nuf said, cheers!

P.S. Silverstar Holdings (http://www.marketwire.com/mw/release_html_b1?release_id=109925) last public financial report,.. looks like they sitting on 22mil in assets. So I'd say they are here to stay.




Not that it is any of my business, but were your services part of the deal?……Perhaps even a staff position?…….I’ve seen some of their packaging, they could use you.

[Rollo]

I fail to share the concern of losing our direct line to Aaron and less fan input. Aaron is now part of SFirst and according to Wargamer 'in a management role to direct the Space Empires franchise'.

In a positive outlook that could mean: more manpower, and for Aaron less coding but more customer relations (i.e. talking to fans) and strategic decisions that will strengthen the franchise.

Now, both the doomsaying and my positive outlook are pure speculation, of course, until we have more information.

What I would like to know from Aaron: 1) Will you get more resources?, 2) How is your new role defined?

[Malfador Machinations]

Hi All!

Not to worry, not to worry! Everything is ok. Here's some answers to those nervous questions:

1. What will this mean for future games? SE5?

Yes, SE5 is still coming out. We're beta testing and fixing it up for a release this summer.

This purchase means that you're pretty much guaranteed an SE6. It was looking doubtful with just my company backing it, but now with Strategy First in the mix, its much more likely. And with their help we should have even better graphics than SE5!

2. Will you still have control over development of the game, or is it now up to S1st management? Do you maintain creative control in this new arrangement? Or will it be up to people that have little knowledge of the series?

Not to worry, I still control development. In fact, very little will change in the day to day operations. Strategy First will have a say, obviously, but the games will still be developed by Malfador Machinations.

3. Does this new arrangement mean you will be getting help from more programmers from Strategy First? Will you still be programming the game in your new management position?

Yes and no. SE5 is pretty much done, so there's not much needed for it. For SE6 we'll be getting help in the art department, but not the programming department. But this will definitely help get development of the game done faster with more polish.

4. What will happen to your faithful beta testers? Will we be replaced by in house testing? Or will things continue as normal?

Things will continue as normal. I would never get rid of my faithful beta testers! If anything we may supplement our normal testing methods with Strategy First in-house testing.

5. What about the bevy of free patches that expanded functionality for SE3, SE4 and SF? Will this still be possible, or will we be forced into pay-for expansions for new content?

Things will continue as always, with patches coming out for quite a while. I will still be building the patches myself and putting in as much as I can. But with Strategy First's help, we may create actual expansion packs for our games with additional graphics, features, and more.


So all in all its good for both sides. I get the backing I need to stay in business and improve our future games. Strategy First gets a new product line and can make it available through more outlets such as Steam, Retail, Direct Download, etc. And heck, they may actually get me to make our games use standard user interface routines. Now, that can't be bad!

Here's looking forward to Space Empires V this summer!

Aaron Hall
Malfador Machinations

[Dizzy]

Sounds good. But will anything be 'dumbed down' to appeal to mainstream users? More often than not that kills the game. I can name half a dozen great games that when publishers got their hands on it they made so many changes to make it appeal to a broader spectrum of gamers that when all was said and done the games sucked.

[Raapys]

As Dizzy said, it sounds good. But, no disrespect to Aaron, no developer with self-respect would say that they were 'dumbing down' or 'mainstreaming' the game to appeal to a wider audience.

"And with their help we should have even better graphics than SE5!"

That's one of the things that bugs me, because we all know the effect graphics has when it comes to selling games. And at least to me, personally, the graphics in any of the SE games never has nor will be an issue. So I feel at least some of the focus is being put in the wrong area. But I'm sure others disagree, and want better graphics.

[Renegade 13]

Dizzy said:
Sounds good. But will anything be 'dumbed down' to appeal to mainstream users? More often than not that kills the game. I can name half a dozen great games that when publishers got their hands on it they made so many changes to make it appeal to a broader spectrum of gamers that when all was said and done the games sucked.


I wouldn't worry about this. Aaron said the game will remain essentially under his control. The new "management position" and all that. "They" will have a hard time making changes Aaron doesn't approve of, I'd think.

[Ed Kolis]

SE6??? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif
<robotnik>I... can't believe it! This can't be happening!</robotnik>

Wow Aaron, this is truly incredible... I hope you never have to lose David Gervais from the team though... no offense to your previous artists (or to Atrocities or any of the other myriad shipset makers out there) but he's brought a new level to Space Empires art while being quite the gentleman in terms of public relations! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

BTW, any plans for more public chats over at #SpaceEmpires? Those were fun! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Annette]

Atrocities said:
So the thing is, will shrapnel wanna keep footing the bill to keep us freeloaders around? And why should they given that there really is no return on their investment aside from the occational game purchase from one of us. (Looking very forward to Dom3 BTW)

They have been very loyal to us, and we to them, but at some point they might have to think about the bottom line. Not that any of this is anything more than pure 100% fear indused speculation and doom saying.



Stragey First's acquistion of the Space Empires intellectual property really doesn't have any bearing on our philosophy on continuing to host these forums.

Our affection for the Space Empires community is genuine, as well as our love of the game. You all have helped shape Shrapnel Games into what it is today, and we are blessed to count you among our friends. We have never looked upon any of you as "freeloaders"http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif. Quite the opposite. We are honored that you continue to want to make this your home.

I can't imagine a set of circumstances that would make us want to turn this group away. I also can't imagine why we wouldn't want to welcome new players of the game to our site. Please know you all are always welcome at Shrapnel Games!

[Fyron]

Certainly wasn't expecting Aaron's response to be posted directly! hehe

[Ed Kolis]

Thank you, Annette! Now the only thing we have to worry about is SFI forcing you to shut down your forums, but that seema a bit unlikely, and I'm sure you'd stand up to them as best you could http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[bearclaw]

I think this has the potential for a wonderful future for all of us. Seeing what else SF has, I think Aaron is THE man whole exceptional product is just what is needed to save SF. What's more, the additional resouces are just what Aaron needs to save MM.

I see this as the best possible situation. Or potentially.

I wish you all the best Aaron. You deserve all the success that this merger can bring you.

In truth, I have only 3 games installed on my computer: SEIV, Dungeon Odessy, Star Fury. SEIII and SEII are still there too, just not installed.

And worst case scenario, I'll be playing SEIV/SEV for many many years.

[Annette]

Ed Kolis said:
Thank you, Annette! Now the only thing we have to worry about is SFI forcing you to shut down your forums, but that seema a bit unlikely, and I'm sure you'd stand up to them as best you could http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif


I don't know why they would want to nor what grounds they would have for doing so.

[Baron Munchausen]

dogscoff said:
Too late now, but Malfador should have sold shares to us gamers in order to retain a level of independence/ closeness to the community. I'd have bought some.

I think the thing to remember is that SE5 has been in beta for months so it ought to be at least playable, if not very close to being finished. That means the new owners, unless they really are mind-bendingly stupid, are unlikely to wreck it with demands for loads of unfavourable new 'features'. I guess they might manage to bury it before release somehow, but in that case I'd be willing to bet a few beta copies made it onto the 'abandonware' circuit shortly after.



I don't know if you could legally sell shares to only a 'selected' group of people. An IPO might have opened him to takeover by unknown stock manipulators. But if it was possible to control who was allowed to buy then yes it would have been a much better arrangement than selling the whole store to a typical corporation that regards all of its games as 'revenue sources'. SE V is too close to being done to be much affected, but SE VI might become a disaster similar to MOO III.

[Suicide Junkie]

Why not?
If Aaron owns all the shares, he can do whatever he pleases with them.

Small businesses with multiple owners can divvy up their shares however they like.

[wake_of_angels]

Nice to hear about SE6!!!
I wait day after day, counting them until I get SE5!
I really wish a demo soon, to get a try!

[Renegade 13]

Imperator Fyron said:
Certainly wasn't expecting Aaron's response to be posted directly! hehe


I sent him an email asking if he'd address his loyal fans here...I guess I hold a lot of sway with him. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Fyron]

Maybe... but those were my emailed questions.

[Caduceus]

As I posted on Strategy First Forums, Shrapnel is a class act.

They (SF) have some big shoes to fill.

[Urendi Maleldil]

So how many millions and millions of dollars did Strategy First spring to buy Malfador?

[narf poit chez BOOM]

I havn't posted yet, I don't think. I guess I'm in the 'wait and see' catagory.

[Annette]

Caduceus said:
As I posted on Strategy First Forums, Shrapnel is a class act.

They (SF) have some big shoes to fill.


Thank you! You guys are pretty classy yourselves. It's not hard to be good to good people.

[Azselendor]

Strategy first's move, because of their injured name and sagging consumer confidence, makes perfect sense.

Best of luck to Aaron however!

[AAshbery76]

How Strategy first treated Stardock was criminal and repulsive in my view.Be afraid,be very,very afraid.

[Azselendor]

That's why Strategy First bought out Malfador -in my opinion. People trust malfador, they don't trust strategy first.

[Atrocities]

You have to consider that Aaron is not a stupid man, if he went into this deal with his eyes wide open, and you can bet he did, then you can trust that he has covered his bases quite nicely.

Aaron stated that he is going to get some resources from SFI to help with both SE V and SE VI. The fact that SE VI is even being mentioned means that there is already enough pre-sale interest in SE V to warrent thinking ahead.

Even if SFI goes under, I am certain that Aaron has protected his right to re-aquire the rights to the SE franchise. (I know that I would dictate specific and harsh terms if payment is not made for any aspect of my contract.)

Given the sad events that transpired between SD and SFI, I will wager that Aaron has taken all precautionary measures to enusre himself and his legacy.

As to SFI, it appears to me that they are trying to make a go of it but are kind of rudderless as to how to re-invent themselves. I agree the first step would be to pull the games that are not selling from the market, and focus on the games that are selling. Secondly keep their word when it comes to information regarding release dates. The fact that they kept pushing the store release of SEIV Deluxe back could have been because their internet sales were rocking. Given the statements made about the Malfador purchase, this might have been the case. ("Hey guys, this space empires game is selling like mad. Perhaps we should buy the company and control the rights?")

I am on the side of lets give SFI the benefit of the doubt. Lets see if they can pick up the peaces and move forward. They certainly are no Shrapnel Games, but who knows, perhaps with Aaron on board, they might one day accend to the level of Shrapnel. (Not that SFI is a bad company, they just have to prove themselves again after the bankruptcy and Stardock scandel.)

As to Shrapnel, I love this site, and I do hope that they continue to inspire the independant game developers into making more and more exciting new games. Thanks for putting up with us, and thanks for being there for us.

[mrscrogg]

how many times have we worked for a co . that either got new management or was bought out . " your job is safe ! we're making no changes !" YA RIGHT ! they suck you dry for your knowledge or until they can put their own people in place and you find yourself with no job and tryingto explain to wife and kids what happened . Aaron beware ! make sure the check clears and you have a iron tight contract

[Suicide Junkie]

Well, in this case, there is only one employee, and he's the management.

[Azselendor]

I hope aaron made sure all his bases were covered and took precautions and I wish him the best of luck, but I still don't trust Strategy First.

Hopefully Aaron can influence them to a better course.

[mrscrogg]

It does'nt seem like Strategy First has the best of records - why did Aaron shop himself around a bit more if he was going to sell ?

[Rollo]

Who says he didn't?

And btw, after working with S1st for quite some time now I think Aaron probably has a better insight and more informed opinion of them than most people who make up their minds on pure internet hearsay.

[Azselendor]

Contract may have given Strategy First first-bid option, but who knows.

[Atrocities]

Rollo said:
Who says he didn't?

And btw, after working with S1st for quite some time now I think Aaron probably has a better insight and more informed opinion of them than most people who make up their minds on pure internet hearsay.



Well said.

[Tim Brooks]

Not that SFI is a bad company, they just have to prove themselves again after the bankruptcy and Stardock scandel.



I disagree. What they did to developers is criminal IMHO, especially Stardock and Brad Wardell, but there were many others. Many of these developers are still hurting. Companies like this make it hard on us indie publishers also. You don't think developers who had dealings with SF are really gun shy when it comes to publishing deals?

David Gervais said it: SF was bought by a company with 22 million in assets. Seems like a 'good' company would do the right thing, and make sure these small devs got their money.


pure internet hearsay



Uhh, what hearsay are you speaking of?

[David E. Gervais]

The history of SFI as I know it,..

1) Small group of 6 people that wanted to make strategy games.
2) Same small group made a Hockey Game instead (due to it being easier to sell) That bombed.. Game Name "Solid Ice".
3) They than managed to secure a deal to develope an Indianna Jones game for Lucasarts. SFI spent allot of money in the dev and in the end Lucasarts decided to cancel the project due to not wanting it released when the 'Last Crusade' came out. Lucasarts made an adventure game based on the movie instead.
4) In order to try and generate income SFI used the talent of it's artists to do artwork for games. Steel Panthers, Age of Rifles, Jagged Alliance, etc. Things were looking better.
5) Work began on Deciples,.. they also turned to 'publishing' to help generate more money.. Things were looking good for several years..
6) IMHO they grew too fast in the development dept.(having close to 100 employees at their peak) Making the payroll was a high priority at that point because the government had been pulling all the strings and forced them to pay employees before contracts,.. As I understand it all of the money recieved from the government was conditional on creating employment.
6) BAM! as a publisher they made the mistake of investing close to 800k$$ in an external development house. They virtually lost that and this happend when things were just starting to look good.
7) This caused a massive leak in the HMS SFI and drastic measures needed to be taken.. How drastic? The company was forced (by the government comiteee that was overseeing SFI) to file for "Bankruptcy Protection" the result,.. the entire in-house dev team(s) were laid off. (100 good people lost their jobs) And the amounts due to external developers was put on hold. Afecting not just Stardock,.. Mind you they have been the most 'Verbal' in spreading the news that they felt they got the shaft.
8) No one said the developers were never going to get their due, No one said that SFI is 'Still' Working to make things right. (SFI seems to be a bit 'classier' in the sense they do not spread bad news just to vent. That is called slander.) And when the storm passes, All Stardock will need to say is "Finally we got what they owed us" But can they undo the 'Badmouthing' they perpertrated over the net? SFI gets a bad rep because thay didn't want to play the crybaby game? I know the people at SFI. They have always tried to do the right thing.

Tim, as a businessman you of all people should know that sometimes things happen beyond your control. All anyone can do is try to make things right. It happens to be a slow process. Stardock got 'wounded' but A Lot of my friends got 'Killed' when SFI was forced to shut down it's in-house dev. I have no doubt Stardock has and will recover from this event,.. but they are not making it easier for SFI to makes things right.

Nuf said,.. Cheers!

[Tim Brooks]

SFI seems to be a bit 'classier' in the sense they do not spread bad news just to vent. That is called slander.



slander
n 1: words falsely spoken that damage the reputation of another 2: an abusive attack on a person's character or good name [syn: aspersion, calumny, defamation, denigration] v : charge falsely or with malicious intent; attack the good name and reputation of someone

Oh I get it. SFI was the good guy. The developers and the government were evil. Sorry for voicing my opinions.

Didn't have time to finish my post (the phone!) so Iam adding this edit.

David, where your logic breaks down is that

1) if they lost $800,000 and then couldn't pay their developers, then they weren't spending their money, they were spending developers money.

2) what are they doing buying Malfador when that money could go to paying developers back, if that is their priority.

Now, you can say what you want, and for all I know your facts are wrong. But I have spoken to many of their developers over the last couple of years, and I get almost the same story from most, so I tend to believe them. SF was slow in paying and underpaying before they declared bankruptcy.

And yes, I know that sometimes things happen beyond a company's control, but it sounds to me, and no one has come forward with facts that change my impressions, that the developers weren't their priority and it seems like they still aren't.

Nuf said.

[Atrocities]

I don't know anything but what I read and or have read on the net about SFI. From the sounds of it, Canada is too blame. Blame it all on Canada! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Seriously though, none of us know the first thing about what compensation Aaron has arranged for his former company. He might have been given 10,000 copies of some old game that he loved so much that he just had to have it as payment for selling Malfador. The point is, despite the past transgressions, yes mistakes were obviously made and people lost more than they should have, it’s the future that matters now. To that end, I wish SFI and Aaron the best. However, as a caveat, if they screw Aaron, and by extension the fans, I swear to God, I will resurrect this thread and give SFI the *** whipping beating of all time. That I promise! (Even if I have to do it from the grave!)

[Hunpecked]

Atrocities: "However, as a caveat, if they screw Aaron, and by extension the fans, I swear to God, I will resurrect this thread and give SFI the *** whipping beating of all time. That I promise! (Even if I have to do it from the grave!)"

Be afraid, SFI. Be very afraid. For Atrocities, death is only the beginning. And in cyberspace, no one can hear you scream...

Any other movie taglines I left out? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Thermodyne]

David E. Gervais said:
The history of SFI as I know it,..

1) Small group of 6 people that wanted to make strategy games.
2) Same small group made a Hockey Game instead (due to it being easier to sell) That bombed.. Game Name "Solid Ice".
3) They than managed to secure a deal to develope an Indianna Jones game for Lucasarts. SFI spent allot of money in the dev and in the end Lucasarts decided to cancel the project due to not wanting it released when the 'Last Crusade' came out. Lucasarts made an adventure game based on the movie instead.
4) In order to try and generate income SFI used the talent of it's artists to do artwork for games. Steel Panthers, Age of Rifles, Jagged Alliance, etc. Things were looking better.
5) Work began on Deciples,.. they also turned to 'publishing' to help generate more money.. Things were looking good for several years..
6) IMHO they grew too fast in the development dept.(having close to 100 employees at their peak) Making the payroll was a high priority at that point because the government had been pulling all the strings and forced them to pay employees before contracts,.. As I understand it all of the money recieved from the government was conditional on creating employment.
6) BAM! as a publisher they made the mistake of investing close to 800k$$ in an external development house. They virtually lost that and this happend when things were just starting to look good.
7) This caused a massive leak in the HMS SFI and drastic measures needed to be taken.. How drastic? The company was forced (by the government comiteee that was overseeing SFI) to file for "Bankruptcy Protection" the result,.. the entire in-house dev team(s) were laid off. (100 good people lost their jobs) And the amounts due to external developers was put on hold. Afecting not just Stardock,.. Mind you they have been the most 'Verbal' in spreading the news that they felt they got the shaft.
8) No one said the developers were never going to get their due, No one said that SFI is 'Still' Working to make things right. (SFI seems to be a bit 'classier' in the sense they do not spread bad news just to vent. That is called slander.) And when the storm passes, All Stardock will need to say is "Finally we got what they owed us" But can they undo the 'Badmouthing' they perpertrated over the net? SFI gets a bad rep because thay didn't want to play the crybaby game? I know the people at SFI. They have always tried to do the right thing.

Tim, as a businessman you of all people should know that sometimes things happen beyond your control. All anyone can do is try to make things right. It happens to be a slow process. Stardock got 'wounded' but A Lot of my friends got 'Killed' when SFI was forced to shut down it's in-house dev. I have no doubt Stardock has and will recover from this event,.. but they are not making it easier for SFI to makes things right.

Nuf said,.. Cheers!



Hey David, you seem to have a line on this. IIRC, SF was getting tax dollars in return for creating jobs and never really had the income stream to replace the government money. And the cash ran short, they were prohibited from using monies that came from the government to pay outside debt (especially for debt outside of Canada)

Now, I also seem to recall that there were actions and judgments against them here in the states. Do you know if these were cleared by the bankruptcy? I have my doubts, Canadian courts having no jurisdiction in US state courts and such.

[Tim Brooks]

The point is, despite the past transgressions, yes mistakes were obviously made and people lost more than they should have, it’s the future that matters now. To that end, I wish SFI and Aaron the best. However, as a caveat, if they screw Aaron, and by extension the fans, I swear to God, I will resurrect this thread and give SFI the *** whipping beating of all time.



Too bad for Stardock you aren't a Galactic Civilizations fan. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Or to put it another way, good for Strategy First that you aren't a Galactic Civilizations fan! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

Really guys. I apologize for even posting here. However, I was a developer for over 5 years and released 5 games into retail. Was treated fairly on only one, although not screwed like the Strategy First developers. It is the reason I started Shrapnel Games. So this is a subject that I have real feelings about.

[Caduceus]

We all respect both of you, Tim and David.

I'm interested in your discourse in such a public forum (and would understand if you took it out of our purview and carried on in private).

[Atrocities]

Caduceus said:
We all respect both of you, Tim and David.

.



Well said. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Renegade 13]

Atrocities said:
From the sounds of it, Canada is too blame. Blame it all on Canada! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif


You'd better watch it! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Tim Brooks]

We all respect both of you, Tim and David.




Thanks Caduceas and Atrocities!


I'm interested in your discourse in such a public forum (and would understand if you took it out of our purview and carried on in private).



I have no desire to carry it on in private. I think what happened should be screamed to the world, less we forget. Unlike David, I don't believe it is Stardock's or my resposibility to do PR for Strategy First. The 'Badmouthing' is nothing but telling what happened. If one uninformed developer reads this and makes an informed decision when choosing a publisher, then I will be happy.

You know, the interesting thing is that the companies that treated me unfairly are now no more, except one. There is probably a lesson in there, huh?

Now, having said all that, I don't believe this is the place for me to carry on this discussion. These forums are for the Space Empires fateful, whom I consider my friends, to come and be merry. So cheers to all!

Oh, and drop by the Gamers Front and order a Shrapnel game! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[David E. Gervais]

My mother is dying,.. what do I know,.. or care..

One fact I do know 100% true.. SFI has not disclosed or badmouthed 'ANY' of their developers and have not posted 'ANY' comments on the 'Bad press' being generated by some of their developers (some with good reason).

It seems to me, bad press like that can only hurt everyone involved. If you want/need/deserve money back from someone, using a hydrolic nail gun with 'bad press' nails to seal the said publisher's coffin is like biting off the hand that feeds you, (or in this case falied to feed you) then complaining the still havent fed you and yet they have no more hands in which to feed you. (you just bit them off remember)

With only the opinions of the 'jilted' developers being posted in what can only be called 'venting due to frustration' We are getting only one half of the story. Yes it does appear to be mass agreement that SFI did a bad thing, but I'm just saying there are 2 sides to every story, in this case the publisher cannot comment on what happened and obviously will not comment.

Let me say this,.. "Yes some developers obviously lost revenue form SFI's fiasco,.. but people seem to forget that SFI itself took a MASSIVE Hit. Compare the current situation of the 'affected developers' and SFI.. It seems to me the 'affected developers' have managed to survive in spite of this 'Ugly History' so why continue to badmouth SFI?

Like I said before the 'affected developers' were wounded.. SFI was crippled and had a major Amputation of talented people. What good can come from continuing to say SFI is a bad company, SFI did this,.. SFI had a bankruptcy.. (BTW SFI never went bankrupt, they filed for 'Bankruptcy Protection' which allowed them to do some major restructuring and save what little they could.) This whole "Let's kick the cripple" attacks on SFI are IMHO very unprofessional.

Ok, I hear it.. "What SFI did was unprofessional... blah blah blah.." But I can guarantee you there was never any 'malicious intent' on the part of SFI. All these dev's posting SFI is bad, they screwed me, etc, sure sounds malicious to me. and that my friend is very unprofessional.

Anyways, I really don't like one sided arguements with no comments from the 'opposition' so this whole discussion is 100% pointless.

But hey, My mom is dying,.. I could not care less.

Cheers! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[President_Elect_Shang]

No offensive but on the limited info I have I would place my money on Mr. Brooks opinion. That is with the guy that has game design and publishing experience.

My interest in this discussion (before anyone asks) is obvious. The outcome of this move by MM will affect the future of a game I enjoy so much! I certainly wish MM and Aaron the best of luck, and I hope that he has taken steps to prevent the demise of his company or the commercialization of the SE line.

[Fyron]

David has a lot of game development experience, being an industry artist and all. Made artwork for Starfury, Dungeon Odyssey, and SE5 lately. Plenty of work before that. I don't know if he has personal experience with publishing games, but he is certianly not lacking in game industry experience.

[President_Elect_Shang]

No offense but the flaw in your reasoning is crystal clear.

I am an Anthropologist but couldn’t tell you much about how to dig up a site. It doesn’t mean I don’t know jack just that I would have to refer you to someone in that area with the experience. See my point?

Anyway I was not attacking Gervais; only stating my feelings that Mr Brooks and his opinion is the one I lean toward based on his apparently far superior experience.

[Suicide Junkie]

It should be noted that David is Aaron's right hand man.

And David has had the most contact with strat of anyone here, except possibly Aaron himself.

[Fyron]

President_Elect_Shang said:
No offense but the flaw in your reasoning is crystal clear.

I was just stating the fact that David has plenty of experience with the game industry. He may not have as much experience with the actual act of publishing the games, but that doesn't mean you can correctly say (or imply) that he has none.

[President_Elect_Shang]

I don’t think I was implying he had none. Maybe I worded it wrong or you read it wrong. I thought it was pretty clear in saying Mr. Brooks had more experience. Anyway I see this is becoming passionate so I am going to drop it here and now.

My two MAIN points remain: (1) I hope SE is not turned into a commercialized product for the mainstream game player; and by extension the aspects that appeal to people who create mods lost in the process. (2) I sincerely hope MM (Aaron) is not lost with this venture and the SE games die with it (him).

[Atrocities]

I would say that we have whipped this horse to death. Lets not dwell any more on the past, but rather look toward the future. I say allow it, the future, tell the story.

[Richard]

BTW does everyone remember the E3 beta of a flight sim that they released to retail as a final product and then lied about it saying it was a "Special Wal-Mart Version". You know the version that didn't work and they wouldn't support.

I think that speaks volumes.

[Richard]

That's fine with me Atrocities but I am not about to say Strategy First is a quality company, no matter how much I personally like Aaron.

[Fyron]

President_Elect_Shang said:
I don’t think I was implying he had none. Maybe I worded it wrong or you read it wrong. I thought it was pretty clear in saying Mr. Brooks had more experience.

The phrase "That is with the guy that has game design and publishing experience" directly implies that the other guy has none. I see now that you meant to say more, but its not what you had said, thus leading to my post refuting it.

[Loser]

four surprises in this thread

with one plot twist and a MacGuffin and we could remake it into a heist film

[Atrocities]

Ok, so who would play me in the film?

[Caduceus]

James Cagney or John Candy... It is kind of a toss-up in my opinion http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Jim Burnes(sp?)

The guy who played Joe Dawson in the highlander series. Why? Attitude. He's got it.

[David E. Gervais]

geez, All I'm trying to say is making comments when you only have one side of the story is 'prejudice'. Having multiple people on one side posting comments does not make their opinion just or even fair. Poo happens to good people too, and some things have major domino effects that are entirely out of your control.

IE: Was It AT that posted saying he got a IRS audit fine of like $480 for a $13 dollar error on an 8 year old tax return? (Was that a malicious oversite by AT? does that make him a bad person? Should he no longer be trusted to do his own tax returns? NO, He is still a good person and always will be.)

I've seen many bad things happen to good people, and folks, YOU DO NOT KNOW THE DETAILS OF WHAT HAPPENED TO SFI. Even stardock probably does not know the details. All they know is they did not recieve sums due to them and some payments were 'late/delayed'. I can guarantee you there was no 'malicious intent' on the part of SFI.

I'm curious, before GalCiv (Published by SFI) was Stardock even on the map? Didn't SFI bring them to the forefront and help make them a part of the mainstream? Would GalCiv2 have the same chance at success if the groundwrok was not done by SFI? It seems to me Stardock, not only survived SFI's Desaster but managed to thrive and prosper. Perhaps the damage to Stardock was not as severe as most people think. And did Stardock have to dismiss any employees? (SFI was forced to send 100+ talented people to the unemployment lines) Do you think ANY company would take joy in having to dismiss that kind of numbers of staff?

What happened was a desaster that affected allot of people and the biggest and hardest hit was SFI itself. Could it have been avoided.. Possibly,.. but you know what they say.. "Hindsight is 20-20".

All this 'Bashing SFI, just for the sake of venting frustrations' has to stop at some point. I am surprised that so many people managed to form an opinion on hearsay (and one sided hearsay at that) And I'm not saying your information is wrong,.. I'm saying you only have one side of the story.

Does anyone know what I'm trying to say?

Cheers! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

EDIT: My experience in this industry started in Retail, then Distribution, then development. (I trained a team of artists to work on computers {they all had no prior experience using computers to do artwork.} and our art team brought a popular game into the mainstream.) The name of that game? Steel Panthers. (ever hear of it?) Look for my name in the credits, along with Natahalie, Ed, and Richard. I believe the game is still popular to this day.

[Richard]

Brad Wardell was well know, and had been previously in retail, long before he hooked up with SFI.

As this is getting neither of us anywhere, and we have all expressed our 100% diametrically opposed POV's, I think it's time to lock this.