Strategic Help required!

[Suicide Junkie]

OK. heres the situation.

I control six systems, two of which have planets in them. I have one trinary system I'm hoping to develop, and 3 asteroid systems.

I have no friends in the galaxy, but the two guys I met are at war with each other.
Unfortunately, I have LCs, while everybody else has Dreadnaughts running around in packs of 9+.

Technology:
16k research points available.

-shields level two,
-armor 3,
-planet util is 3 turns from lvl 6,
-weapon destroyers lvl 5.
-DUC lvl 5
-plague bomb 1
-religious 3
-PD 5
-mines & explosives 3
-troops 1
-A Mil Sci 3 (with all ships & fleets in training)
-Base con 2
-ship con 4
-resupply 2
-rock colonies only

Enemy tech:
-Max shields
-Dreadnaught hulls
-Max missiles for Jreanar
-Max crystal (shard Cannon/ High energy magnifier) for Phong.

Map:
I'm in the rightmost corner. Phong are above & to the left, Jreanar are south.
-My planet systems are horizontal in the center of my empire, and there are two dead systems above & below them.
-Two warp points from phong space into my home system on the left, with 540 & 430 mines on them, adding 5 per turn to both.
-Two warp points from phong to the north, with 250 mines each. Adding 14 mines every 5 turns to each.
-one warp point two systems to the south, with 420 mines & a picket ship to stop sweepers. Adding 60 mines every 4 turns.

The phong just declared war & sent 1/5th of their fleet into my home system. That's why the one minefield is depleted by 100 mines

Military:
Maintenance: 7%!
-5 boarding party II escorts.
-one DUC frigate
-7 DUC destroyers.
-6 minelayer destroyers
-7 DUC/Tachyon Light Cruisers.
-2 Repair/Resupply LCs
-4 fully trained (+20%) fleets, two just starting training (+3%), 50% of my ships are just starting training too (the other 50% are done).
In a simulator test, the Phong DN can wipe out one of my LCs each battle turn.
My Battle station design can defeat one phong DN, but is crippled in the process.

How do I survive this?
I'm thinking of getting planet util up to 7, and converting all my moons & planets, but I'm not sure if I can Last long enough. If I get planet creation tech, I'll have two more systems full of planets.

[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 22 April 2001).]

[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 24 April 2001).]

[CaptSpoogy]

You're in trouble.

If I were you I would continue to add mines to all my warp points - buy some time.

Convert your planets - build whatever you can! Research point defense; ship construction - build a few point defense cruisers to provide protection to your fleet...

Hope that they continue to attack each other and weaken themselves, until you can challenge them...

Good luck.

[Suicide Junkie]

I've had the minelayers on repeat orders for the Last decade.

PD is at max tech.

Are you suggesting ship construction or planet util? Its pretty much down to one or the other, not both.


And does anybody know how to counter the phong's Shard Cannon & high-energy magnifier?

[Possum]

DUDE!

That sounds like FUN!

[Coal]

The only advise I can give is build a ship with a gavatational condensor and seal off your empire from everyone else. After you build up you empire and spacy, you can open new points deep into the enemy territory and send in large strike fleets. Thats the strategy I ussually use.

------------------
Rules? What Rules?

[Suicide Junkie]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>The only advise I can give is build a ship with a gavatational condensor and seal off your empire from everyone else. After you build up you empire and spacy, you can open new points deep into the enemy territory and send in large strike fleets. Thats the strategy I ussually use.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well, besides being unfair to the AI, I would need to research that tech, and all I have is astrophsysics 1.


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>DUDE!
That sounds like FUN!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I've posted the savegame, but it requires Pirates&Nomads V1.3 or higher to work.

[Marty Ward]

You could always try to become a protectorate or subjecate empire. The only thing that will help you is time and you can't research that.

[Suicide Junkie]

It'll take 2 years for me to get the religious talisman & ECM. Arming my ships with the Tachyon cannon Vs I have, could give me a victory.

Or, I could get ship con/ shields, or maybe just swarm with LCs & tachyon cannon.

Or, I could get atmosphere converters in 2.5 years & upgrade all my planets.

[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 22 April 2001).]

[Marty Ward]

If you have 4-5 years to build atmospheric converters and facilities you probably have time to get 1-2 levels of ship and some better weapons tech and kick a**. A ton of Kamikazi escorts probably wouldn't hurt.

[Suicide Junkie]

Hehe. I have no idea how much time I have left. The phong & jreanar keep throwing DNs at my minefields, but when they do send the minesweepers, 5 of them will defeat my mines (at 105 lost per sweeper)

What I need is a suggestion on how to proceed. Will the AI send the minesweepers quickly, or what? Which of my options gives me the most effect?
Both the jreanar & phong have seen my system, so they could have marked the sector as mined. They have yet to attack my main system's WPs with sweepers, though.

[Trachmyr]

Close the Warp points.... it seems to be your only hope.

[Suicide Junkie]

Sorry, I can't use wormhole manip. Personal AI friendly policy. There's gotta be another solution.

Which of the things I mentioned below do you think will work best?

[Marty Ward]

Try mining around, not in, the WP and hope they hit them. Also pop through the WP and mine their side, if possible. Layer mines all over the place and make their fleet take damage just moving through your system. They might not have enough minesweepers to keep a clear path. Also, attack their minesweepers if you get a chance.

[Will]

Interesting situation, should be quite a challenge. I forsee many hours in front of a monitor scheming the downfall of the AIs, when you should be sleeping http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

You say that you have max PDC tech... I would say do this:

Get atmosphere converters and convert your planets, and use extra space for research facilities unless it's a real good value (for me, over 130%) in something.

Make a strike fleet consisting of your DUC/Tachyon LCs and a new design with all PDCs. Try to design it so it can easily be retrofitted to the DUC/Tachyon LC, and vice versa, a very fast way to get Legendary Fleets/Ships.

Take on the Jreanar, see if you can't capture a few of those dreadnaughts with your boarding escorts (check in sim first). If you can get just a few, it would be a real boost to your research, and would give you just that much more room to maneuver.

Keep on mining the warps leading to the Phong, step it up if you can.

Pray. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

For the question of countering Crystalline weapons, only effective method I know is lots and lots of shields. Those aren't exactly the most damaging weapons, they are only dangerous when the shields are gone.

And about the AI using minesweepers and their speed in deployment... Well, I've never really been on that side of the minefield http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif If the AI holds true to the form I've seen in it before, you'll only see lone minesweepers come through, not a group. How fast they will come is what I don't know, which is why I say step up mine production if you can.

I'll take a look at the savegame once I get the data files, see if I can't think of anything else.

And how's the Intel of all sides?

[TaeraRepublic]

Looks kinda simple to me.

Phong are real danger, but Jraenar with missiles are weak. Few PD cruisers can bring you the victory.

Research Meson BLasters. Although not as powerful as APB, they provide fine fire, while cheap in both research and construction.

I will download the zip, and try to counter the ships with your technology. If i can, i will post the designs here.

And remember, LCs are good in swarms. DNs are slow. Use this against them

Try fighters. They are powerful indeed.

Research cloaking/stealth armor and sneak to the other side of mined warp-points. If you see a minesweeper coming, try to intercept.

------------------
Emperor Klis't of the Taera Republic.
Proud member of the League of Empires.
E-Mail (http://mailto:ant119@hotmail.com) -
Ora Planet (http://oraplanet.tripod.com/) - Taera Republic (http://www.hyperionbase.com/hosted/oraplanet/) - League of Empires (http://students.uwsp.edu/kmusa047/LoE/index.html)

[TaeraRepublic]

the link for ZIP is broken http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon9.gif http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon9.gif

------------------
Emperor Klis't of the Taera Republic.
Proud member of the League of Empires.
E-Mail (http://mailto:ant119@hotmail.com) -
Ora Planet (http://oraplanet.tripod.com/) - Taera Republic (http://www.hyperionbase.com/hosted/oraplanet/) - League of Empires (http://students.uwsp.edu/kmusa047/LoE/index.html)

[Trachmyr]

Ok, if you're not going to use stellar manip... then add sats/bases to the mined WP's, hopefully they'll take out the minesweepers.

Or for a wild tactic, if you have researched intelligene so that you can do crew insureection, scrap all research facilites and build intel... start doing crew insurrection (analyze some of their ships to "continue researching"), and cause some massive havoc... blockade as many systems as possible so they run out of resouces and have to scrap their navy (do Steal resources too... infact once you might be able to replace some mines/farms/extractors with intel if you can steal enough resources!).


[This message has been edited by Trachmyr (edited 23 April 2001).]

[dogscoff]

If you can manage to get a lone ship into enemy space, send a frigate / escort and hide in a storm sector. Drop a LR-scanner satellite if you don't want to leave a whole ship in there (or if the AI sees you go in and comes in after you.)

Once you have a watchful eye on the enemy use the "ship bomb" intel project to target his minesweepers. He might have counter intel running but keep plugging away - up your intel production and run as many identical projects as you can complete in one turn. You might yet stand a chance=-)

------------------
There is an exception to every rule. Including this one.

[mac5732]

If you have ftrs, build and put on worm holes
to supplement your mines. Also if you have the tech, build Ship with ship yard tech, build 3-4 small BS on worm hole with the ftrs and mines. I found this to be effective
but if he has lots of mine sweeping, you need the ftrs and BS's, the mines won't do you any good. You might even put a small defensive fleet at the same worm hole. Use ftrs in Groups with each different type. Example, 15 with beam weapon, 15 with torp's
for total of group of 30 or more, that way you have a 1-2 punch every other turn and 1 punch each turn with each group.

just some ideas mac

[Suicide Junkie]

Well, I'm currently spending 102% of my mineral income, most of it on mine construction.
My nature shrine III's will put me back in the black within 3 turns, though.
I don't have fighters yet (see the 1st post for an overview of everything)
I'm quite sure sats would be wiped out. The enemy has massive shielding, and powerful weapons.

The Jreanar use CSM/PlasM but have an APB XII also. The single Heavy-mount APB is enough to rip through my LCs shields and destroy most of it's armor in one shot http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon9.gif.

Did I mention that I have +18% attack & defence racial traits?


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>And how's the Intel of all sides?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I have 2.7k I'm currently storing intel points in defence, so I'm not getting hurt by enemy intel.
Jreanar: 56k intel (2nd place overall)
Phong: 86k intel (3rd place overall)
Krill: 25k intel (1st place overall) 10x my score!

All I've met is Phong & krill and some little guy who refused to surrender until the plague had wasted his homeworld to 300M.

The phong & Jreanar are really pounding on each other http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 23 April 2001).]

[mac5732]

your post stated your BS can take out l Dn but is crippled. How big is the BS, Maybe instead of 1,try like i said in eariler post, put 3-4 BS's on your wormholes in conjunction with mines . Another idea, make some of your LC's all shields & armor, other LC's w/missles and put behind them. If enemy has only Beam weapons they could reach your shield LC's but your missle ships should be able to range on them and your shield & armor LC's strong enough to take the hits at least until your missles start doing damage. Have you tried mining his side of the worm hole? Maybe send in cloaked minelayers and mine his side as well. If he has CV's try and steal some and put the ftrs on your wormholes then retrofit the CV's into captial warships. Interesting

Another idea, take your smallest warship, make into kamikazes, fill with as many warheads as possible. build a good number, then while he is shooting at your LC's and missles, you KK's should be able to ram and hopefully damage or destroy a good portion.

just some ideas Mac

[This message has been edited by mac5732 (edited 23 April 2001).]

[Suicide Junkie]

Are Techyon Projection Cannons that worthless, or has nobody noticed I have max tech in weapon-destroying weapons. Any good strategies I could use with those?

[Nitram Draw]

I never use Tachyon weapons as a main weapon. The problem with the Tachyon weapons is their short range. You have to stay close to be effective and in your situation close is not where you want to be.
I would try to take advantage of the situation the best possible way. I find if I am seriously out gunned then I feel am better off with lots a targets that do lesser amounts of damage. If the DN can only target 3 ships per turn have 15 small units attack it. At least you will get 4-5 turns of fire in. It may seem stupid to attack with escorts but if you don't have fighters then they are your best alternative.
From your post I don't think you have shield depleters but if you do use them with your capture ships. Even if you don't analyize any captured ships you will have some good ships to defend with.
You have a tough problem, you are seriously out teched. You need all the time you can get to even things out.

[Suicide Junkie]

Well, they are range 4, and if I research the Talisman, I'll go from 10% chance @ range 1 http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/blush.gif to 100% chance @ range 4.

I'm thinking that with the tachyons & talisman, I might take out all the weapons on a DN with 2 LCs at max range, and only end up taking one volley of enemy fire. I could then capture the ship with a few normal weapons, for ship, shield, engine, armor, ECM, ComSen, etc.


[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 23 April 2001).]

[Nitram Draw]

It may work provided you survive long enough to take out most of their weapons. APB XII at range 4, (heavy mount?), pack a pretty good punch.

[Suicide Junkie]

Well, one LC getting hit by one HM-APB-XII will lose shields & armor, but internals survive.
I do have a pair of repair ships (with resupply pods on 'em)

If I found a solo Jreanar DN, I could jump him with 2LCs and a Repair ship.
The Jreanar have only one APB per ship (rest missiles) and I've got decent PD.

[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 23 April 2001).]

[Nitram Draw]

SJ,
This will probably work in tactical IF there is only 1 DN.
Build 10-15 kamakize escorts and 1-2 capture escorts.
Attack the DN with the kamikazis, you will probably lose 5 - 10 of them in closing the range. 5 kamikazis with cobalt warhead III (1500 damage points) should take down all the shields. Then capture it and use it as a defender in the WP until you can capture another for analysis. The AI should target the kamikzis because the capture ship doesn't have a weapon.
Don't know if it will work in strategic but it may.
If you can capture enough of them you may have max shields and APB's in only a few years!

[This message has been edited by Nitram Draw (edited 23 April 2001).]

[Suicide Junkie]

I'd rather not go kamikaze. And I don't have the funds to be (re)building ships like that. If I took the Cobalts off & used Tachyons, I could disable the weapons & have lots of time to cut away at the shields, then capture.

Not sure if I'm gonna absolutely require the talisman to pull it off...

[Nitram Draw]

If you can capture just 1-2 for defending the WP you should be ok. Sounds like there is a lot of free, expensive research available on those ships, if you can just grab the first one!

[Suicide Junkie]

Well, with a simulator test, I realized the Jreanar have two HM-APB-XIIs (and 9 CSMs) on their newest DNs.
With 6 TPC Vs on 2 LCs, I managed to take out half his weapons over 2 volleys of tachyons at 50% accuracy (1 range).

I reduced my shielding & armor to fit 3TPC and a DUC on, so the first hit takes out my shields the second takes out half my armor. Hits 3 takes out armor & #4 does some internal damage.

I'm gonna have to Strike a single DN with at least a third of my LCs converted to 3TPC/1DUC/low defence.

I may be able to use my Frigates as PD support & DUCs for shield draining, and give my LCs more defence or more TPCs.

[Lupusman]

That's strange, it's giving me an error when I try opening the file.
(Yes, I'm using the correct Version)
Same, as what the others are describing in the other thread.

[Suicide Junkie]

I guess you neen P&N V1.4, which will be posted in "a pirates life" in 5 minutes.

[Nitram Draw]

Include some smaller ships in your attack to give them more targets to shoot at. Since they are going to knock out 1 LC per turn make some cheap gunboats to draw fire, forget the armor and shields on them. 1-2 PD frigates will neutralize the missiles. Something has to get through!
You really need to capture one, if only for defense.
You got a hell of a fight going, hope you figure out a winning strategy!

[Suicide Junkie]

If I keep the ships tightly packed, my PDCs should be able to handle the missiles, And I can add the PDL on my repair ship, or a dedicated PDL ship for a safety margin.

I still need shields so my ships don't get wiped out. 20kT defence lets me take absorb 2 HM-APB-XII. Perhaps a hardened ship that's one gun and lotsa shields will distract the fire.

[raynor]

I agree with the folks who suggest using fighters. When the AI is way ahead of you in technology, those Mine Sweeper V DN's will devastate your mine fields. But if you had 400 small fighters equipped with the Small DUC III, the AI would never get a ship through.

[Suicide Junkie]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I agree with the folks who suggest using fighters. When the AI is way ahead of you in technology, those Mine Sweeper V DN's will devastate your mine fields. But if you had 400 small fighters equipped with the Small DUC III, the AI would never get a ship through.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hmmm... I think the first fighter I'll create are gonna be TachyonPC fighters. Once the enemy ship is disarmed, I can capture them. DUC fighters sound good for when I've stolen the tech already.

It looks like 3 Tachyon Runners (with 70kT of defence) can disable a DN at 50% accuracy(the enemy split his fire & all 3 ships' shields held at 10% http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif). I'll just have to have some backup ships that can drop the shields and Cap.

[Marty Ward]

Too bad your main weapon targets their weapons. You will have to analyize it because you won't be able to use it for defense http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon9.gif

[Suicide Junkie]

I don't mind researching my own (weapon) techs. I've got DUC V already, and that's good enough for me. (As long as I have equivalent shield, armor, sensors, hulls etc.)

[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 24 April 2001).]

[Suicide Junkie]

After more simming, It looks like I have to also contend with fairly heavy regeneration on the 2k shields of the DN, plus they have a Self-destruct. And the 3 crew quarters can fight off my Boarding Parties II, so I have to kill one of those too.

This just gets worse and worse.

I could disable one of the DNs with 3LCs & take only armor damage.
But, to capture them, I also need at least 10 DUC capture ES/FG ships pounding away till the end of combat.

This one tactical operation is going to require every ship I own.

[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 24 April 2001).]

[mac5732]

have you tried using LC's for capture instead of ES/FG'? Put shields on them and with the extra capture units you might not need as many as with es/fg's

just some ideas mac

[Suicide Junkie]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Aren't you getting any help from your mines? I usually see the AI send in minesweepers and combat ships to the same spot in the same turn but rarely in the same group? Maybe you will get lucky and a mine or two will take down some shields/crew quarters<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hehe http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif Mines don't usually cripple a ship when you've got 500 mines per sector http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif
I just get a message every two turns "9 Phong ships have been destroyed"
The enemy minesweepers will kill 105 mines each when they actually arrive.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>have you tried using LC's for capture instead of ES/FG'? Put shields on them and with the extra capture units you might not need as many as with es/fg's<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The reason I need so many ES/FGs is cause the enemy DN has a terribly strong shield, and my accuracy at range 1 is 50%. I need that many ships just to carry DUCs so I can breach his shielding and try to kill the Self-destruct before the combat ends.
The reason why I dont plan to use LC's in that role is cause I don't have many (see first post) but I've got lots of ES/FGs sitting around from the beginning of the game. (And I don't have funds to scrap and rebuild - 102% of my minerals go to maint & mine building)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>BTW are you fighting tactical or strategic? If you are fighting strategic, have you tried setting your tachyon ships to "point blank range"?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Tactical all the way. I just love flying my ships around and changing tactics & trying to cover a crippled ship's retreat & stuff http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 24 April 2001).]

[Nitram Draw]

Do they always send 9 ships through? If so you could adjust the amount of mines so that maybe 1 or 2 will be crippled enough for you to easily capture. Don't try to kill them all http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif
In my current game I've gotten quite a few Cue Cappa BB's with Alligience Converters this way. The mines took out their engines and shields, all their weapons remained intact for some reason. I just went in and captured them, cost me a few small capture ships in closing but I now have a small Psychic battlegroup without the ability.

[Suicide Junkie]

Problem is, they come at me so often that I'm having trouble holding the minefields up right now. When the fifth minesweeper comes through, I'll be finished.

I can't take the risk of detting my minefields...
Oh, but I could make a new minefield just in front of my existing ones to cripple somebody. I like it!

Hey, I was just looking at the scores, and the top 4 players have 100k score, while the bottom three (living) players all have 10k-20k score. The rich empires are all infighting for more territory, while me and the little guys just try to hold on to what we've got. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif


[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 24 April 2001).]

[Nitram Draw]

If you could figure out where they would go once they got through the WP you could leave a trail of mines in their path. You might have crippled DN's all over the place http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Suicide Junkie]

The WP mines are pretty much my Last line of defence http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif I do have a few mines ni orbit of each planet, but they won't Last long. My ships are helpless right now.
Once I get the talisman, and my fleets get trained up to 20% (modded to be 1% per turn), then I might be able to dodge the occasional shot, while staying at range http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

I've set 2 mines (1200 damage total) just outside where the phong like to come in. Hopefully it won't attract a minesweeper, but I should be able to cripple some ships now. As long as they don't send a fleet over 3 ships in size, I should be able to handle the uncrippled ship with my fleet. (consisting of my entire military force except the training ESs) http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Do you ever use a single escort in a fleet stationed over a training facil?
I've got 5 ES in their own "Training Fleet X", and then I can switch them with warships. I get a trained fleet of warships instantly & my ES starts a new fleet to train http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Nitram Draw]

I train fleets that way a lot, build my fleet training the same place and the shipyard and begin training immediately. If you have 5 ships why not create 5 fleets and get them all up to max. Then you don't have to wait as long.
Also havuig minefields all over the place may cause his minesweepers to not be as effective or allow them to be exposed to attack. They may be chasing non existant fields.

[This message has been edited by Nitram Draw (edited 24 April 2001).]

[Suicide Junkie]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>If you have 5 ships why not create 5 fleets and get them all up to max. Then you don't have to wait as long.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I though I just said that???

I have "training fleet A" through "training fleet E", in orbit of "Starfleet Academy"

[Nitram Draw]

Misunderstood, thought you meant you had 5 ships in one fleet. Sorry

[Suicide Junkie]

NP

[mac5732]

what does he have in the systems touching yours? Colony wise?. Could you sneak a clocked ship or small fleet in and trash his planets or refueling depots in that system. I know you said you have 2 empty ones but what about where he keeps cming thru. Anyway you could mine both sides of wormholes. This way he could get some thru the one side and hopefully some would be damaged where you could capture them on the other side. In either case, he would have to stop for the fields before he entered into your system giving you warning or chance to attack him at the wormhole or build BS on wormholes to back up mines. Can you increase your production in anyway?

just some ideas mac

[Suicide Junkie]

My production is going up 3% per year, and I have most of my colonies producing research & intel. I've only got 2 moons producing, 1 mineral & 1 radioactive. Ive got a planet producing 3 organic & two homeworlds with lots of minerals & research.

All that research is going to get me Rel.Talisman in 1.5 years, then Atmosphere Converters I, in 2 more years.

So, Yes, I could increase production, but at the expence of research.

Right now, I've laid a trap 2-mine field just in front of my 500-mine defence, and hoping to catch a lone DN, two could be handled. I'll then pounce with my entire Space Force (about 16 ships) all retrofitted for disabling & capture & repair.

In the systems touching mine, he's got small colonies with piles of (prob: cystal tech) satellites. Probably got large platforms on all the planets too. I wouldn't stand a chance attacking the colonies.
I could hit them with a suicide Plague bomber, but they've probly got med tech.

[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 24 April 2001).]

[Nitram Draw]

That's 65 turns before your first converted atmosphere planet comes on line and more before they have any effect. If you can survive that long with the weapons you have you shouldn't be worrying to much.
If you can't hold that long I would delay the Converters and get to shields V. That is a lot more protection that shields II, which is what I think you have. Or begin researching some of the lower levels of the techs they have to get greater advances when you analyize the DN's you are going to capture.

[Suicide Junkie]

I'm not as poor in shielding as I sound. My mod alterantes normal & phased, so I'm really at level 4. Plus I've got level 3 in armor, wich gives me an 10kT armored shield gen. 25/30 : S/A. Still doing bad relatively, though.

[Nitram Draw]

Aren't you getting any help from your mines? I usually see the AI send in minesweepers and combat ships to the same spot in the same turn but rarely in the same group? Maybe you will get lucky and a mine or two will take down some shields/crew quarters.
BTW are you fighting tactical or strategic? If you are fighting strategic, have you tried setting your tachyon ships to "point blank range"?

[Suicide Junkie]

The first Capture attempt on a DN!

See: Game Stories (http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/Forum23/HTML/001481.html)



[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 25 April 2001).]

[Marty Ward]

Sounds like it was a hell of a fight! Hope you get a breather to regroup.
Maybe you should think of researching shield depleters, from your narrative it sounds like just knocking down the shields cost a fair number of ships.

[Suicide Junkie]

Hehe. Yeah. I've just researched shield tech high enough to open the area.

Thing was, my plan called for the ES&DS to strip an unarmed Drednaught of shields, then take out the SDD & crew. Didn't work out quite that way http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif.

I didn't actually lose any ships, the ones that spun off burning all had 92% damage and were ignored by the DN in favour of the livelier ships. Something like 50 hitpoints remaining on 4 LCs.

Quite a display as the ships struggled to get home on 1 movement. The Jreanar sent in 1000 kT carriers, and the Phong had 7-stacked DNs, The Jreanar countered with 9-stack DN & wreckage was everywhere http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif
I just layed down mines as I went and hoped that they would be able to disable any ships that decided to attack me. Nobody did, but man was there ever a lot of fighting going on http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif.

BTW, after that battle, I took a detour on the way home and capped me a Gas giant colonizer with some sweet engine tech http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif.

[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 25 April 2001).]

[Will]

Congrats on the victory! Looks like you'll get four tech levels (Propulsion, CombatSupport, ShipConstruction, Cargo). I think you'll be able to make it.

And you didn't say you had fighters! They can be a valuable attack resource. Once you get your fleet home, retrofit the ES/FG to be a corvette-type ship, with Fighter Bays. If you can, have your planets building fighters while the fleet returns. Ferry the fighters to a staging area (best place would probably be a storm that blocks sensors). Make 'em into one big group (it seems to help with accuracy). Then use the fighters as your main disabling force, and re-retrofitted ES/FGs can close and capture. With a repair ship handy, you can repair the ES/FGs, and the fighters should Last several battles (depends on total number). Best part: no maintainance.

[dogscoff]

Sounds like you're doing OK now but if things get dificult again you might want to try the "run for help" tactic. I've done this in SEIII plenty of times:

Equip a small fast ship (FG, ES) with emergency movement and loads of supplies. Train it up to full experience to make it even harder to hit.
Cloaking and solar harnessing tech are also useful if available. Don't bother with weapons, your tactic is to avoid combat and dodge the bullets if you do get into a fight.(maybe fit PDCs, if you have room)

Send it out into the unknown to make first contact with distant races. Hopefully you can pick up a few nice treaties to boost your resource / research / intel output.
If your enemies are as huge as you say then other small empires will be glad of the opportunity to make friends.
Remember - "My enemy's enemy is my friend."

The trick is to avoid combat by careful navigation. Avoid enemy space as far as possible and use storms and nebulae to hide from enemy fleets. Try flying through disputed territories - your enemies will be too busy killing each other to worry about your little ship.

You can help your heroic adventurer when it gets into trouble by using quick, cheap intel ops like "fake orders" and "ship bomb".

If you keep your distance from hostile ships and move quickly enough you might be able to get to the other side of their space, where you should have potential allies waiting for you.

Even if it doesn't work it's a great laugh frantically steering a lone frigate through enemy space with a 20 battlecruiser fleet on your tail...


BTW... has anyone else ever used this strategy? If not, can I name it after myself? "The Dogscoff Dash" http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon6.gif ...catchy


------------------
There is an exception to every rule. Including this one.

[This message has been edited by dogscoff (edited 25 April 2001).]

[Suicide Junkie]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Congrats on the victory! Looks like you'll get four tech levels (Propulsion, CombatSupport, ShipConstruction, Cargo). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
It was only a Cargo I, so I only get 3 techs out of the deal.

The fleet is already home, after what turned into a year long journey, covering each step with an ever-smaller supply of mines http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif
The DN is limping in on its own (within the Empires defences) and will take another 1/2 year.

That DN kicked my ecomomy into a -1,000 mineral tailspin, but I mothballed my forces at Starfleet Academy, when I had 7k left, so now I make 7k per turn http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif It'll be a while before I can get the funds to unmothball. By then, I should have the DN analysed, and will scrap some of the ships for BCs.

BTW, I've got the Talisman, and stole Gas Colonies (spaced the stupid crystal "plants", I'm gonna convert atmospheres!), so I'll be expanding while my fleet sleeps. In two years, I'll get atmosphere converters, and the empire will return to the blissful days of old http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>BTW... has anyone else ever used this strategy? If not, can I name it after myself? "The Dogscoff Dash" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Actually, I did that sometimes in SE3, usually to get to my brother or dad, living on the other side of the map. A guaranteed pot of gold at the end of the road really helps.

[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 25 April 2001).]

[Nitram Draw]

Next battle try to bring a shipyard ship along and analyize anything captured immediately after the fight. This will save you some maintenance.

[Suicide Junkie]

I didn't have anything larger than LC, so there was no way to bring a SY to that operation.

From now on, I can & will bring a SY ship.

[Nitram Draw]

Thought you had modded a smaller yard or was that mod just a slower yard?
It took me a while to see the value of bringing my shipyard ship along with my combat ships but know, like American Express suggests, I don't leave home without it.

[Suicide Junkie]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Thought you had modded a smaller yard or was that mod just a slower yard?
It took me a while to see the value of bringing my shipyard ship along with my combat ships but know, like American Express suggests, I don't leave home without it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
That thing is only available to Pirates or Nomads, not regular folk like me and the AIs.

They need it since they don't have many planets. (if any)

[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 25 April 2001).]

[Suicide Junkie]

Arggh! More bad news! Somebody's been Comm Mimiking me!

I thought it was a bug that caused me to mysteriously lose my treaty with the Phong a decade ago, but now, the CueCappa hit my minefield, met me, and one turn later we're at war.

With two systems, I'm not MEE, so the bloody aliens are screwing with me. Obviously, counter-intel 2 dosen't protect against comm mimic.

Looks like another detour on the road to glory.

I've got a third of my planets with Atmosphere converters on 'em, and researching shields & armor heavily.

Gonna have to upgrade the training on Section 31 (the planet). http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Marty Ward]

Maybe you can get lucky and capture some of their ships that have functional Allegience Converters. That would help even the odds a bit if the DN's keep coming, espescially with the talisman!

[Suicide Junkie]

They live on the other side of the galaxy & happen to be brotherly. Now that section 31 is aware of the threat from comm mimic, they have taken steps to eliminate the danger.

As soon as the Phong & CueCappa get past their "no peace for x years", we will get trade started again.

Then I only have to worry about the Jreanar, and I'll have the phong helping.

[Will]

You have several saves of this game, right? Perhaps one for every five turns or so? http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif (Asking about this for viewing purposes only, not cheating by "going back in time").

[Suicide Junkie]

Well, just the autosave, but I'm not sure if I got that turned on.

There's just the save I posted, the Save where I misclicked and overwrote another savegame a few years back, and the "now" save.

There's no much happening. My entire fleet is at Starfleet Academy, mothballed & getting tech refits, every planet has either an Oxy atmosphere, a converter, or is building one. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif
And the Jreanar are piling ships through my minefields, average 4 DN per year. Can't quite keep up, and a slowly decaying at one WP. Still got 400 mines though.

Shield tech has advanced greatly, but we're still 2/3rds to 1/2 of the alien tech.
Got monoliths, and after the budget bottomed out making atm. converters I've got big plusses in everything.

I can defeat a Phong DN with a Nuclear Bombardment BC, and a DUC+talisman BC, but only sometimes, while I do a little missile dancing at max range.

[TaeraRepublic]

Downloaded the save, cant load.
Are you using some mod?

------------------
Emperor Klis't of the Taera Republic.
Proud member of the League of Empires.
E-Mail (http://mailto:ant119@hotmail.com) -
Ora Planet (http://oraplanet.tripod.com/) - Taera Republic (http://www.hyperionbase.com/hosted/oraplanet/) - League of Empires (http://students.uwsp.edu/kmusa047/LoE/index.html)

[Suicide Junkie]

Big time mod.

It's my Pirates&Nomads Mod. Tons of tech, some heavy changes to the shields & the best part, Pirate and nomadic advanced traits available to humans for extra challenge.

You can download it by checking out the "P&N update" thread.

You can also read some (heck, all) of the action in my game, by checking out the game stories thread. That stuff all happens just after the savegame, I believe.

[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 27 April 2001).]