OT: Happy 4th

[Colonel]

Happy 4th of July to all of us Americans, and hello to everyone.

[Yimboli]

Did anyone else attend the Bristol, RI 4th of july parade? Oldest july 4 parade in the country... =)

(or so the propaganda says)

[Renegade 13]

Happy anniversary of the beginning of a war. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

[capnq]

The war started fifteen and a half months before that (at Lexington, 19 April 1775). The Declaration was just the politicians admitting that diplomacy wasn't going to settle the issues.

[Renegade 13]

True, that was the first fighting, but the 'official' beginning of the actual war was when the Declaration of Independence was signed. At least, as far as I know. I'm not American, so my American history is a little vague.

Though that's a rather moot point. I just find it ironic that the 4th of July is celebrated in the United States as a great past national achievement, yet it is essentially celebrating the beginning of a war that killed hundreds of thousands. It must be the only time that the beginning of a war is celebrated, not the end.

[Captain Kwok]

Many countries' national days are celebrations of violent events that led to revolutions etc., so it's not all that irregular. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Renegade 13]

Captain Kwok said:
Many countries' national days are celebrations of violent events that led to revolutions etc., so it's not all that irregular. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

I can't think of one for Canada! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Caduceus]

There would have been no Canadian independence without an American Rebellion.

[Atrocities]

The Forts 4th of July fire works here on the west coast, specifically Vancouver, WA USA, was spactacular as usual but shorter than laster year. I would like, however, to tell the person who picked the music this year, that there song selection sucked *** horribly. Come on man.... over the [censored] rainbow.... where did that come from.. and the themes from ET and Jerassic Park? What in the hell were you thinking???? Give me ROCK or give me death!

[Renegade 13]

Caduceus said:
There would have been no Canadian independence without an American Rebellion.

Neither I nor anyone else can predict with any accuracy what would have happened with Canada had the American Rebellion not occurred. However, looking at what happened with other British colonies that did NOT rebel and yet attained their freedom (of which there were a lot!), I'd say it's very likely Canada would have attained independence at approximately the same time we did. Remember, Canada was not independent until 1867 which was nearly 100 years after the Revolutionary War. I doubt the memory of the American Revolution had much to do with Canadian independence at all. But hey, who knows?? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/confused.gif

[capnq]

Renegade 13 said: it is essentially celebrating the beginning of a war that killed hundreds of thousands.

You're off by an order of magnitude. According to my almanac, American troops killed and wounded combined were 10,643. I would expect British casualties to be similar, and civilian causualities lower.
I doubt the memory of the American Revolution had much to do with Canadian independence at all.

No, but if the independent United States had not pressured Great Britain on the third clause of the Atlantic Charter (http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/wwii/atlantic.htm) during WWII, most of those nations that broke off after WWII would not have become independent.

[Renegade 13]

capnq said:
You're off by an order of magnitude. According to my almanac, American troops killed and wounded combined were 10,643. I would expect British casualties to be similar, and civilian causualities lower.

Hmmm...I seem to recall deaths by disease (esp. smallpox) outnumbered deaths by combat, as was usual in such wars of the times. Now, I don't know if you can count those deaths as directly caused by the wars, but if you do, deaths would be much higher.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Interesting tidbit - Canada petitioned Britain to remain a part of the empire. Why? Far as I can remember, wheat subsidies.