Population growth: How exactly does it work?

[dogscoff]

OK, so I'm trying to take all the scraps of information piled together on the 'population' wiki page ( http://wiki.spaceempires.net/index.php/Population_%28SEIV%29 ) and turn it into a nice, easy-to read, pretty-to-look-at, fully marked up wiki page. However I want to get the facts right, and something isn't clear:

There is a table on the wiki with happiness on one axis and plantary conditions on the other. It isn't clear, though, how the numbers in that table are applied to the "population growth" figue. For example, if the table yields 13 for my particular combination of happiness/ conditions, and I have a +2 racial population growth modifier, and then a further +1 from taking environmental resistance up to 105%, would my pop growth rate for that planet be

10% base rate +2% modifier + 1% modifier +13% happiness/condition modifier = 26%? Or would it be
something else entirely?

Anyone any wiser than me?

[Fyron]

All of the factors combine linearly to get the final growth rate.

[dogscoff]

So what does that mean? That my example (26%) in the original post is correct?

[Fyron]

They add together. Your example is correct.

[dogscoff]

Cool, thanks. I'll go wiki it.

[dogscoff]

Done it: http://wiki.spaceempires.net/index.php/Population_%28SEIV%29

It's a bit scrappy, but it's an improvement on what was there before. Feel free to tidy it up, people.

[Q]

Has increased environmental resistance an effect if the planet condition is optimal?? If so that would be a little odd in my opinion.
And if the planet condition is deadly does increased environmental resistance rise the population growth over zero or has it no effect?

[Fyron]

ER has no relation to planetary conditions; it is just a 1/5th reproduction and happiness effect.

Optimal planets get the same benefit/penalty from ER as any other.

Deadly planets can have positive growth rates either from high levels of ER or from high levels of reproduction (or a combination). In a quick test, 130% reproduction and 100% ER netted 22% growth rate on a deadly planet. Deadly just means the base rate is very low, some negative value.

[Urendi Maleldil]

How does that "Reproduction Check Frequency" factor in?

[Fyron]

Population is increased by 1/10th of the reproduction rate every X turns, where X is that frequency. Thus, in stock, you sort of get the reproduction rate being growth in a year. It is yearly growth, compounded monthly. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

If you set Repr. Freq. to 2, it means no pop will grow after one turn, and you will get 1/10th repro rate growth on the second turn. Set it to 3, you get the 1/10th growth every 3 turns, and so on.

[dogscoff]

Yeah, what Fyron just said. For an example, play Proportions, where population is only increased every ten turns (and then only by a few percent if you're lucky.)

[Q]

So environmental resistance is in fact not resistence to hostile environment (which would be planet condition is SE IV) but just equivalent to reproductionX5.
What is the effect on happiness you mention Fyron?
I learn new things about SE IV even after 6 years!

[Parasite]

It is calculated separately for each race on the planet and applied to that race. It is also rounded up. Therefore in a growing population, one popwill take one turn to become two people.

An interesting method is to put 4 different races on one colony ship. The turn they land they reproduce into 8 people. They start getting the 20 person bonus in 5 turns, not 16. It can get even better on a planet with two moons. Keep each moon population at 4 (or one for each race you control). Every few turns move them to the main planet and you get at least 12 people per turn. Even more when the main planet's pop gets high enough to make more than two of each.

[Parasite]

Q said:
but just equivalent to reproductionX5.



reproduction / 5

[Q]

Parasite said:

Q said:
but just equivalent to reproductionX5.



reproduction / 5



5% ER is equivalent to 1% reproduction, isn't it?

[Slick]

Yes, with clarification: Every 5th point of ER changes reproduction by 1%. The break points are at every 0% and 5%. Changing ER by 1-4% does nothing. Therefore if you are engaging in starting point maximization, then you could get lots of points back with no effect by lowering ER to 51% and raising reproduction by 9%. I hear that nobody really does this http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I think the math is right, but don't trust it since I haven't had my first cup of coffee yet. But you get the idea.

[Fyron]

The min-max guide (http://www.spaceempires.net/home/content-1.html) specifically recommends it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Mmm... 565 free points out of the ether. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/firedevil.gif

[Yimboli]

Q said:
I learn new things about SE IV even after 6 years!



which is not, imho, something that se4 should brag about. I feel like there's so much mystery... why not a tooltip that tells me?

[narf poit chez BOOM]

You know, of all the suggestions for SEV, I don't think a single one concerned tooltips.

But then again, I don't have the greatest memory.

[Fyron]

SE5 is rife with tooltips.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Yaay for tooltips!

[scJazz]

Imperator Fyron said:
The min-max guide (http://www.spaceempires.net/home/content-1.html) specifically recommends it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Mmm... 565 free points out of the ether. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/firedevil.gif



Alright that is just so stinking gamey it makes me sick. Hope this little screwup is fixed!

[Fyron]

I completely agree; get PvK's balance mod (http://www.latibulum.com/pvk/pvkbalance/)! It fixes all of the crappy costs and makes racial trait costs, well, balanced. Of course, I don't think it includes modded AIs, so you'll have to adjust them yourself to fit with the new cost scheme... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif