Modding SEV Thread Questions

[aegisx]

Which forula is responsible for a weapons accuracy?

[Phoenix-D]

That'd be the to-hit forumla right below the damage. It starts out as 100 (by default, defined in settings.txt) and goes from there.

[aegisx]

so what does 0 - [%Range%] actually mean in that context?

if range is 10... 0 - 10 = -10...

[Phoenix-D]

Correct. So the actual chance to hit would be 90% (since it starts at 100, - the penalty)

[aegisx]

Ah ok, got it. What kind of value is Range?

[Suicide Junkie]

Range is all in arbitrary units.

The best way to get a sense for how far things are is to make a couple ships, throw them into the simulator and turn on the weapon range circles.

In terms of data types, Range would be an integer, from 1 to 500 (Current hardcoded max)

[Phoenix-D]

A value from 0-500. Its only displayed in units of 10, but SEV calculates it down to 1s at least.

[Desdinova]

Is there any way to mod the components so they do not list simply in alphabetical order. I would like to group the components by type (control, engines, colonization, beam, missile, etc). I have tried resorting the components in the components.txt file but it does not seem to make a difference.

edit: captain kwok. i see yours are sorted by component type. is there some other change i need to make in another file for this?

[Captain Kwok]

You can turn off alpha-sort for components in either settings.txt or under Empire Options in-game. The order is then the listed order in Components.txt.

[Desdinova]

thanks. I also asked this shortly after in the thread about your mod.

[Barnacle Bill]

Kana said:
A general question...

When you make a mod, what process to you follow?
How much pre planning do you do? What do you do?
Which data file do you start with first? Second?
Do you start from scratch, or do you just type over other entries?



I've never actually published a mod, but I mod the heck out of the game for my own amusement.

The first thing is documentation. Weeks or months down the road, there will be another patch. In SEIV, there was the TDM mod, which I always used as the base for mine - and it had new versions at least a few weeks after any vanilla patch (sometimes in between). Then I need to update my homegrown mod. So, you have to keep straight exactly what you did, file by file. I use a text file for that...

I always start with the base files from the game or mod I'm editing. The first thing I do is to capture in my mod notes file what the big picture is - what I'm trying to accomplish. So I'll write at the top (above the file by file details) stuff like...

"BC1 - separate warships & auxilliaries. Need to restrict warship hulls to not include non-allowed systems. This would appear to be done via requirement Get_Design_Ability_Component_Count("<ability>") <= 0, where <ability> is the actual ability type of the component. Also looks like Get_Design_Specific_Component_Count("<component>") <= 0 would work, with <component> being the actual name of the component to exclude. The latter would be required to distinguish between fighter/drone launches vs satellite/mine launchers. Need to use Get_Design_Specific_Component_Count("<component>") to restict number of actual Supply Storage, Ordnance Storage & Solar Collector components individually by warship hull size, to allow a reasonable amount but preclude making warship-hulled ammo or supply ships. Want to restrict weapons on non-warships - how (maybe give all "auxilliary systems" the cargo ability with amount 0 and let the 50% cargo rule handle it)."

As you can see, I make notes to myself about what might work - helps me to remember why I did something. Then, as I note specific changes in the files I'll put "[BC1]" at the end of the change entry if that was in support of the "Big Change" described under BC1.

That done, usually I do the techs file first, since everything else depends on them. I try to test little bits at a time, because if you spend all day modding and then it won't load, it's hard to figure out what you screwed up. The modding docs are pretty sparse (even in SEIV - they are positively missing so far for SEV), so you have to run little experiments to see how things really work. Cheat codes are your friend when doing that...

[frightlever]

Captain Kwok said:
To use 20x15 hexes, you need to edit the SystemTypes.txt file so that no items are placed beyond ring 7 - that is what causes the crash.

When changing the system size, multiple the radius by the factor you change the size by. For example, 20/26 is ~ 75%, so the radius should be 315 etc.



I had a look in SystemTypes.txt and maybe I was being over-optimistic but I simply replaced any reference to "ring 8" or "ring 9" with "ring 7".

I can now generate a 20x15 system but there's just my homeworld and maybe a storm - no other planets or warp points.

Going the other way a 40x20 with a 720 radius gives the attached screenshot. It kinda appeals to me because at least it looks like the screen's being used efficiently in the 2D view.

Given that I'm determined to stick with the 2D view I assumed that making the screen smaller would make the icons more legible without obscuring neighbouring hexes so badly (since individual hexes will be relatively bigger). However now I'm thinking of sticking with the 40x20 and seeing if I can mod the icons to be more readable when pulled out as per the screenshot. I figure if I could replace them with simnple letters (like the old YSR) it'll be good enough. Not that I've even checked to see if those grafix are available to edit.

[shinigami]

Here's a cool one;

In SEIV if you wanted to tie a modified version of a standard component or facility to a racial trait you had to create a new tech area and a new version of the comp or facility. In SEV you can just change the original comp or facility like so,
<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre> snip
Ability 1 Type := Space Yard
Ability 1 Description := Can construct with [%Amount2%] minerals per turn.
Ability 1 Scope := Space Object
Ability 1 Range Formula := 0
Ability 1 Amount 1 Formula := 1
Ability 1 Amount 2 Formula := iif(Empire_Has_Racial_Trait("Poor Builders"), 1000
+ (([%Level%] - 1) * 100), 2000 + (([%Level%] - 1) * 200))
snip</pre><hr />

By going this route you could easily have a Temporal race use the same spaceyard as all the other races.

Edit: added a linebreak for formatting.

[Suicide Junkie]

That would also cause the spaceyard rate to double as soon as the regular races invade and replace the poor builders.

[shinigami]

Yeah, that's true (and a great point), "Poor Builders" in this case must a race of mismanagers, put someone else in charge and things run smoothly. It was only intended as an example to show what could be done. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif If a modder were to use this technique he would certainly need to keep this in mind.

[CosmoLizard]

hello to all, one question

the racial abilities and race setup is in the "jraenar_setup_script.csf" file?? how can i open an csf file into a .txt???

the AI is stored in "jraenar_main_script.csf"?

btw there is any way in which some empires "hates" each to other??, i mean for example , humans that are somewhat neutral, but, for example, with the jraenar there is a "hatring" between both so there are more probabilities that both goes to war, is possible?

thxs

[AngleWyrm]

Script compiling is a one-way operation: From txt to csf.

Look in SE5\Utilities\ScriptParser\SE5EmpireScripts

[CosmoLizard]

thxs Angel, ...hmmm, noe, how i turn txt inti cfs??

regards

[Fyron]

By using the compiler one level down from that folder.

[pujal]

Answered.

[CosmoLizard]

there arent modifiers to defense rating at racialtraits.txt, or goverment or society?? like a "armor defence percent" or an opossite of "weapon to hit percent"?

also it cant be possible to separeate space combat with ground combat as was done in se4? maybe using "weapon damage percent" with a negative "ground combat percent"?

thx

[Devnullicus]

Is there a list of possible values for

1) Ability Type
2) Ability Scope

I see a large list of possible values in MainStrings.txt (Abilities_Const), but there's no rhyme or reason to them and I'm pretty sure not all of those values are possible for either Scope or Type.

Is there a list in the script files somewhere (i.e. not in the Data folder)? Or is there a Data file that has a list of possible values?

[Phoenix-D]

There's a list but its out of date and not accurate. Search around the forum for Fyron's post that "doesn't" have Description_Abilities.txt attached to it.

[Devnullicus]

Hmmm, not finding it. I see a number of references in messages to that file, but they all say "where is it?". So I guess I have the same question http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Captain Kwok]

I've posted a copy of the description files here:
http://www.captainkwok.net/se5resources.php

[Devnullicus]

Yeah, found them after I started widening my search past this forum http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Thanks for doing that, Captain Kwok. I can definitely see why Aaron pulled them - they're seriously out of date and somewhat confusing.

Instead of relying on them, I think I'm going to hard-code the ones I know about for now and when the updated files come out, I'll read them in instead.

[President_Elect_Shang]

Is there a way to get SE5 to generate a log or report showing any errors with my mod?

[CosmoLizard]

thxs Capitain for the link, but im still a bit confused if i could ud¡se, for example "Combat To Hit Defense Plus " as racial ability?? or is just for th hulls??

[President_Elect_Shang]

President_Elect_Shang said:
Is there a way to get SE5 to generate a log or report showing any errors with my mod?



bump

[Captain Kwok]

SE:V will spit out fatal mod errors when the mod is loaded as SE:IV did. It won't tell you though if you have 1 ability required but 2 listing and things of that sort - but it would tell you if you had 1 ability listed and said 2 were required... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

The "Combat To Hit Defense" ability can be used on hulls or components, and even facilities if you wanted.

[tmcc]

Haven't tried yet but there are a bunch of debug flags which all default to FALSE in DebugSettings.txt

[President_Elect_Shang]

I have been working with the debug text but have not had any luck getting it to go. I have also worked with the little log that pops up when you run the mod. Problem there is I can't read any of the four entries it is reporting. All four problems are parse problems but I can't tell where they are located at?

Is there any programs that will check formula for parse-ability? The script parse utility is for making csf files right? I have tried it to no avail.

[President_Elect_Shang]

You can now have fractional engines for a ship. I made a ship with 2 engines, speed 8, by setting the engines per movement point to 0.25. Holds up in combat as well.

[Captain Kwok]

If the parser can't read a formula it spits out an error - ie too many parenthesis or something like or invalid operator and so on...

[Q]

Checked modified sensor fuctions:
A modded tachyon sensor with short range and a basic sensor with high range (but low sight level) on the same ship together will give the ship the maximum range of the basic sensor combined with the sight level of the tachyon sensor, which should not be the case IMO.

[President_Elect_Shang]

@ CPT Kwok: I know you had a thread started for ship changes (modding) or something to that effect but I would like to start a new thread for posting general tricks that have been found. For example:

1. You can make ship sizes that call for fractional engines.

2. I don’t use bridges (or master computer) at all and have worked around the hard coded restriction in SE5. To do this I have given the hull the ability control center.

Maybe if SJ can make this a sticky and others start posting tricks we can lay the ground work for a tips and tricks page for the Wiki master page.

@Q: That has got to be wrong; I would report it to Aaron.

@ Phoenix-D (well all modders): You have a good idea with the thread you started about grouping together and making a “Masters of the Empires” mod. Does anyone else like the sound of this too? The thought of your mod going head-to-head with a Star Destroyer or wing of Tie Fighters does nothing to stir your blood? I’m considering doing my part and I have to work around a complication when it comes to sharing my mod; which happens to be one reason why I didn’t in SE4.

P.S. to CPT K: I did work around the formula errors. I had to cut out each component one at a time; start the game to see if it had the problematic formula; wash rinse repeat till errors found and corrected. It is up and running even though I haven’t included all 16 tech levels and the components with them or the small craft, or the ships, bases …

This is getting long but I have one more trick to share. In SE4 I was plagued with the problem of how to create an External Ordinance Rack (XO Rack). The trick is it must fire drones at a controlled rate, must be zero tonnage, absorb one point (kt) of damage so the ship won’t become invincible, get damaged first along with the armor, and best of all the player (or AI) must be restricted to only placing a certain number of them on their hull designs.

Ok, that said I came up with half an answer in SE4. Only half because the AI never wanted to do it right. In SE4Deluxe I came closer. In SE5 I have finally hit on a solution. Limit the total number by (a) Fyron’s AI Tag solution or better still (b) restrict the component to only Armor slots. Now the player will need to choose if they want armor or an XO Rack. The AI question I have not attacked yet but it should be a simple matter of telling it how many it wants on a ship.

That’s it for now…

More tricks yet to be tested: A component whose cost is based on the size of the hull the component is being placed in. Larger ship means you pay more!

Cost and bonuses based on iif statements based on your current level instead of the generic steady progression in stock.

Really have to go now but please, share your thoughts! Is any of this useful or should I just give it up?

[Kana]

President_Elect_Shang said:
@ CPT Kwok: I know you had a thread started for ship changes (modding) or something to that effect but I would like to start a new thread for posting general tricks that have been found.

Maybe if SJ can make this a sticky and others start posting tricks we can lay the ground work for a tips and tricks page for the Wiki master page.

Really have to go now but please, share your thoughts! Is any of this useful or should I just give it up?



Sticky this thread as well. Always share your thoughts, especially if its something you dont think someone else may have thought of. Then they can use, or make them think of something else.

Speaking of which...I was reconsidering my Tholian web problem. From previous discussions, with the new damage types, I should be able to give web weapons the ability to slow down other ships/objects. To use them, it was disscused to use sats, drones, or even mines to be able to have a 'free standing web/terrain like feature'. Last night a thought came to me...

Can you set a seeker to have a zero speed? Then when launched, it would say in place, and basically be an obstacle to what ever is on its target list? Basically it would 'ram' any valid target that enters its 'square'. I havent tested it yet. Do you think it would work? Anyone else have a counter idea? Any way you think I can get this to work at range? IE: Shoot web out to range 10 and stay there as an obstacle?

[President_Elect_Shang]

Shooting a web to range 10 should be no problem and getting the seeker to sit still should also be easy. The problem I see is getting the seeker to ram. I think it will need movement of some kind to complete a ram attempt.

If I want to combine two statements in one formula; specifically Get_Design_Specific_Component_Count(“A”); how would I do that?

I have tried the OR operator and it doesn’t seem to work. What I am trying to accomplish is limit a player to placing a certain number of engine component A on a ship or a certain number of engine component B but not both. So far I can get the ship in the Vehicle Size text to recognize one or the other but not both. In other words I can restrict the number that can be placed by putting the restriction in two formulas but you can still place the max number of A and the max number of B. See what I am saying/asking? I don’t’ want that, I want either but not both.

[Suicide Junkie]

That is the way OR works. If at least one side is true, then the result of ORing them is true.

The simplest way to make it exclusive would be to add a requirement of (count(A)=0 OR count(B)=0)

If you want to handle more than just two types, then try checking to ensure that the maximum of the counts (IE the type with the most components installed) is equal to the sum of the number of engines installed of all types.
Eg: max(a, max(b, max(c,d))) = (a+b+c+d)

[President_Elect_Shang]

I thought about it more and decided to toss the idea out. There are a number of reasons why the “Paper” game works well with two different types of engines. I could mod both types to “almost” meet the paper game, but just “almost”. The problem comes from the military engine; which should allow a player to run them at full power but if they do so it would mean a random chance of the engine failing and needing to be repaired. The benefit to full power is double the strategic movement speed. It goes into a little more detail than this but the essential is I would need to create an engine that can be used to produce double speed (when the player or AI’s chooses to) with a chance to fail every turn. I don’t see a way to do that so I have tossed it out and built the restriction on max speed for the hull instead.

This could come in handy for other moders which want to use more than one engine type but control how many and in what combinations they may be legally used by the player and AI.

[Kana]

To mod the effect of the Military Engines being 'accident prone' you just need to make them cost more in terms of maintence or repair. Since maintence is a flat rate, you would have to make the engine just cost more. For repair, either make it fragile, with lower HP, or with more HP so that it take longer to repair.

[Fyron]

Captain Kwok said:
It won't tell you though if you have 1 ability required but 2 listing and things of that sort...

And it never should; that is not a data file error, it is a valid way to take out certain abilities for testing or just to leave them around in the off chance you might like to add it back in the future. Maybe a "data file verifier" could list it as a warning, but SE5 shouldn't gripe about it on every load.

[Suicide Junkie]

Why not simply give the military engines emergency move ability?

You burn one out to got extra fast now.

[President_Elect_Shang]

I thought about doing the higher cost thing; however, the spirit of the engine wouldn’t be there. Players could use it full power all the time and never feel the “fear” of not making it planet Beta Prime before the enemy sterilizes it. You will always make it since it will never break. I decided to just make the item straight out and leave it alone. In the end having to add the other restrictions and features to the different hulls just isn’t worth charging more.

[pujal]

Is there documentation on the scripting language used by Aaron, or the name of it at least?

[Captain Kwok]

I think it's Delphi.

[Baron Munchausen]

Captain Kwok said:
I think it's Delphi.



The programming language that SE V is written in is Delphi. The scripting language of SE V is a custom job by Aaron himself. I suppose though, that it you are a well-informed programmer you could assign his scripting language to some category or other, compare it to known languages, etc.

[Kana]

President_Elect_Shang said:
I thought about doing the higher cost thing; however, the spirit of the engine wouldn’t be there. Players could use it full power all the time and never feel the “fear” of not making it planet Beta Prime before the enemy sterilizes it. You will always make it since it will never break. I decided to just make the item straight out and leave it alone. In the end having to add the other restrictions and features to the different hulls just isn’t worth charging more.



Isnt there some form of critical failure thing?

-NVM, this had to do with loss of CQ, LS, and Control Centers.-

Also, what do these do?

Damage Factor Object Still Operational - Weapon := 0.50
Damage Factor Object Still Operational - Component := 0.50
Damage Factor Object Still Operational - Facility := 0.50

[Captain Kwok]

If a component or weapon has more than 50% damage, it's abilities won't work anymore. Note for Organic Armor though if it is damaged more than 50% during combat it no longer adds any regeneration points to the pool... if it has the chance to heal again though to 100% structure, it will start contributing regeneration points again.

[President_Elect_Shang]

I would need something like the destroyed on use ability along with the emergency movement points ability tied together. Then I could create a component that:

1. Generates one point in movement.
2. Generates one bonus movement point for each working component which would have to be activated in the same way emergency components are now.
3. When activated SE5 will determine randomly if chance to fail succeeds or not. The chance to fail would have to be a modder supplied percent. Succeed means the component is destroyed and not means the player (or AI) can use the ability again next turn.

Honestly it could be done if Aaron just added in a percent chance to fail formula, but I don’t think he will.

[MrToxin]

OK, so just how does combat movement work? I saw the listings in the componets file on the engines, but I haven't quite pieced it together. Would somebody be so kind as to explain it to me? I'd rather know before I get to work on putting QNP in, as well as dabbling in stuff like maneuverability mods and defense modifiers based on them.

[Phoenix-D]

Combat movement: every vehicle size has its own "Space Combat Maximum Speed Per Movement Point" value. It isn't like SE4 where it strategic speed/2.

How it works: Take the ship's movement points, multiply it by the value above, then ADD any "Combat Movement" values.

[aegisx]

Do functions get overriden? So if I declare a function in the Main script file, and the same one exists in an included script, will the new one override the old?

[Captain Kwok]

The Empire specific scripts will overwrite any variables etc. in the general AI files.

But if you wanted to make a special design creation sequence for your modded race, you could modify the default one and give it a new name and include that file as a reference in place of the other script in your AI's main script file.

[aegisx]

Thats what I had been doing. It would be a pain to manage as the base scripts change though, would have to merge them into the new script.

[pujal]

Digging through the ai scripts, found this:
<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>
//------------------------------------------------------------------------
// Compute_Spending_Resources
//------------------------------------------------------------------------
function Compute_Spending_Resources returns boolean
params
vars
total_resources: Resources
begin
return TRUE

call total_resources.clear()
call total_resources.Add(Sys_AI_Empire_Stats_Get_Curren t_Resources(sys_long_Player_ID))
call total_resources.Subtract(Sys_AI_Empire_Stats_Get_T otal_Queue_Usage_Per_Turn(sys_long_Player_ID))

call gbl_resources_vehicles.assign(total_resources)
call gbl_resources_vehicles.multiply(lng_Overall_Spendi ng_Pct_Vehicle_Construction / 100)

call gbl_resources_units.assign(total_resources)
call gbl_resources_units.multiply(lng_Overall_Spending_ Pct_Unit_Construction / 100)

call gbl_resources_facilities.assign(total_resources)
call gbl_resources_facilities.multiply(lng_Overall_Spen ding_Pct_Facility_Construction / 100)

end
</pre><hr />
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this code is never run in the begin/end statements as it returns right at the beginning??

[aegisx]

Is there a way, in a csf script, to get what turn you are on? i.e 5,10,15?

[shinigami]

There are several date related references in the script sections of MainStrings.txt.

As for how to use them... haven't a clue. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Raapys]

<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>set gbl_ai_state_date_of_last_attack_state := sys_long_Game_Date</pre><hr />

Suppose sys_long_Game_Date is the current date, then? And Sys_Get_Game_Start_Date could be used to get the start date.

[MrToxin]

Hmm...OK, got that part about the movement points and what not and then did some good old hard testing to see how stuff works, but I'm a bit lost on how to add something like a maneuvering thruster to make a ship, for instance, turn faster. Though, I think that making a ship harder to hit would be a matter of adding a function in the defense modifier of the ship based on movement points and turn speed. That I'll need to explore, but again I don't know what command to put in the script.

OK, another question...I noticed that, in the racial traits, it has a field for requirements. What, exactly, can I put in there and how do I make abilities have other abilities as requirements?

Edit: OK, so after digging through the tech files, I'm thinking "Empire_Has_Racial_Trait" is probably just what I want. I'll try it and post the results here.

[Fyron]

I'm thinking it would probably be a boon to searches in the future if we let this thread die, and start making new threads for different types of modding questions. It's a real pain to be searching for something, and end up at a thread with 100s of posts, since the forum software doesn't link properly in them (unless maybe it just doesn't like non-default settings...).

[Suicide Junkie]

If you log out before doing your serach, the defaults work better for the search links.

[Fyron]

Yeah, but it would still be better to have separate threads, I think.

[TheComputerGeek]

Kamog said:
No, the demo does not have the "Description_Abilities.txt" file. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/fear.gif



I have a purchased copy and I can't locate this. It is a file, right? I am trying to understand how modding is done and it sounds like this file would be helpful. I have been waiting for a UI mod for SE IV and now find SE V still has no option to list the Construction Queue items in a format similar to the Colonies Facilities list. So I thought, I should try my hand at modding. Still reading though the forums, but I am interested in any ideas on where I can find the best information on modding SE V. Also it looks like basic modding information for SE IV is the same, am I correct?

[Phoenix-D]

Its a file, and it wasn't included in the retail version. Its around here on the forums somewhere..

[Captain Kwok]

I've posted the Description files here:
http://www.captainkwok.net/se5resources.php/

Keep in mind they are not 100% accurate or up to date.

[TheComputerGeek]

Captain Kwok said:
I've posted the Description files here:
http://www.captainkwok.net/se5resources.php/

Keep in mind they are not 100% accurate or up to date.



Thanks to you and Pheonix-D for your quick response. I found your earlier post when I got farther down this large thread. I found your Web Site contains a lot of good information, keep up the good work and thanks again. As you seem to have been doing this for a while could you tell me will I be able to mod the UI or am I going about this the wrong way?

[Q]

This link does not work for me:
http://www.captainkwok.net/se5resources.php/files/DescriptionFiles.zip

[Captain Kwok]

Correct link:
http://www.captainkwok.net/files/DescriptionFiles.zip

[Kana]

Imperator Fyron said:
I'm thinking it would probably be a boon to searches in the future if we let this thread die, and start making new threads for different types of modding questions. It's a real pain to be searching for something, and end up at a thread with 100s of posts, since the forum software doesn't link properly in them (unless maybe it just doesn't like non-default settings...).



Will I agree on one level, on the other, I dont neccesarily like the idea of having to go to 100 different threads to find 100 different things either...

I guess if we make threads having to do with individual data files, or individual concepts like missiles, fighters, ships, shipsets, AI...etc...

[Fyron]

Like this thread (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Number=460985&amp;page=1&amp;view=collap sed&amp;sb=5&amp;o=&amp;fpart=1)?

[President_Elect_Shang]

Kana said:
...I dont neccesarily like the idea of having to go to 100 different threads to find 100 different things either...



I would agree with this if we could have the threads stuck to the top. I can’t stand the idea of having to flip “forum pages” just to find a thread on modding the AI which has slipped down due to lack of posting. Better than that may be one of those sub-forums like the SEIV or the SEV Scenerios and Mods. This though would take a dedicated person to police so we can avoid a poster coming in and asking advice on his/her dog fluffy who has fleas.

See what I’m saying?

[President_Elect_Shang]

Imperator Fyron said:
Like this thread (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Number=460985&amp;page=1&amp;view=collap sed&amp;sb=5&amp;o=&amp;fpart=1)?



The thread you link to is a perfect example of what I am saying. I knew about the thread but where is it? Before posting this second reply I did a scan of the front page and it is nowhere to be found. This thread may be large and growing; however, at least it is always on the front and contains concentrated info!

[Elsemeravin]

With my newly arrived SEV version I can at least make modding from theory to practice.
I'm been trying to modify the TechAreas.txt file, but I met my first problem.

What I would like to do is:

Tech A has 10 levels
Tech B has 30 levels, with the restriction that Level Tech A * 3 &gt;= Level Tech B

Which means that you need to continuously research Tech A in order to be able to progress in Tech B.

I tried the following:

Name := A
Group := CG_General Topic
Description := Tech A.
Picture Number := 32
Maximum Level := 10
Level Cost := 50000
Start Level := 0
Can Be Removed := True
Unique or Racial Tech := False
Number Of Requirements := 0

Name := B
Group := CG_Specialization
Description := Tech B.
Picture Number := 104
Maximum Level := 30
Level Cost := 10000
Start Level := 0
Can Be Removed := True
Unique or Racial Tech := False
Number Of Requirements := 2
Requirements Evaluation Availability := AND
Requirements Evaluation Allows Placement := TRUE
Requirements Evaluation Allows Usage := TRUE
Requirement 1 Description := Empire must have at least tech level 1 in A.
Requirement 1 Formula := Get_Empire_Tech_Level("A") * 3 &gt;= [%level%]

It doesn't work at all, seems like [%level%] is not used in that part of the program.

Then I tried:

Name := A
Group := CG_General Topic
Description := Tech A.
Picture Number := 32
Maximum Level := 10
Level Cost := 50000
Start Level := 0
Can Be Removed := True
Unique or Racial Tech := False
Number Of Requirements := 0

Name := B
Group := CG_Specialization
Description := Tech B.
Picture Number := 104
Maximum Level := 30
Level Cost := 10000
Start Level := 0
Can Be Removed := True
Unique or Racial Tech := False
Number Of Requirements := 2
Requirements Evaluation Availability := AND
Requirements Evaluation Allows Placement := TRUE
Requirements Evaluation Allows Usage := TRUE
Requirement 1 Description := Empire must have at least tech level 1 in Astrophysics.
Requirement 2 Formula := Get_Empire_Tech_Level("A") * 3 &gt; Get_Empire_Tech_Level("B")

Then it partially works. Indeed once reaching level 1 in Tech A and level 3 in Tech B, Tech B disappears from the list of researchable techs, with the percentage or research dedicated for it...(only clear all can get back this research to the main pool)

I would like the following:

When Tech B reach level 3, then it will still appear in the research list but be grayed out until Tech A reaches level 2. Also the research allocated to Tech B should go back to the pool.

Would you know a way to manage this (the ideal would be to use an equivalent of [%level%] variable) ?

[Fyron]

President_Elect_Shang said:
I would agree with this if we could have the threads stuck to the top.

Maybe 1 sticky thread linking? There might be 20 or 30 threads if they are one per file...

[Elsemeravin]

I just also tried that, but the Tech B is grayed out and never change:

Name := A
Group := CG_General Topic
Description := Tech A.
Picture Number := 32
Maximum Level := 10
Level Cost := 50000
Start Level := 0
Can Be Removed := True
Unique or Racial Tech := False
Number Of Requirements := 0

Name := B
Group := CG_Specialization
Description := Tech B.
Picture Number := 104
Maximum Level := Get_Empire_Tech_Level("A") * 3
Level Cost := 10000
Start Level := 0
Can Be Removed := True
Unique or Racial Tech := False
Number Of Requirements := 1
Requirements Evaluation Availability := AND
Requirements Evaluation Allows Placement := TRUE
Requirements Evaluation Allows Usage := TRUE
Requirement 1 Description := Empire must have at least tech level 1 in A.
Requirement 1 Formula := Get_Empire_Tech_Level("A") &gt;= 1

[shinigami]

Unless the game can accept a formula for Maximum Level I don't think you're going to be able to make it work exactly like you want. The tech disappearing does make sense, you can't see any tech that you can't research unless you have maxed it out. In this case, a requirement is not being met so it is not available.

[President_Elect_Shang]

Imperator Fyron said:
Maybe 1 sticky thread linking? There might be 20 or 30 threads if they are one per file...



Brilliant! One master sticky thread with one post per discussion; the single post is the link to that discussion. I can get on board with that!

You do realize that this thread would need to be read from front to back and split (or copied) to each respective category?

[Suicide Junkie]

Or we could just do it the traditional way.

Reask the question, and people post the answers in 5 minutes, spawning a thread of refinements to the original quick answer.

[Elsemeravin]

Finally I added the requirement to the component on the parent tech.
Every component needs Tech B &gt;= level and Tech A * 3 &gt; level, but it is harder for player to get it.

[Spoo]

Why not have an SE5 modding wiki (probably hosted elsewhere, but linked to from here) for questions that have been answered, and individual threads for new questions?

[Fyron]

There is one, but hardly anyone is adding to it:

http://wiki.spaceempires.net/index.php/Modding_Tutorials_(SEV)

[MasterChiToes]

How would you go about modding in "unexpected results" for research?

[President_Elect_Shang]

Does anyone know where this is and what is it used for?

Portrait Filename := GovType_Anarchy.bmp

[Captain Kwok]

At one point there was probably going to be pictures of gov't types in the game setup and it never happened - not that there was a need for it anyway.

[President_Elect_Shang]

That’s pretty much what I guessed it was. It would be frivolous anyway and I don’t see how you could picture some forms of government. For example I am modding in a Contemplative, Peaceful Anarchy, Religious Democracy, and Stalin Communist to name just 4 of 30.

[Spectarofdeath]

Is there a way for to make a technology tree, but you can't research it, you have to basically get it A) from a event or B) from another race that got it as a event. Once you get the first lvl (from the event) you can then proceed to research the other lvls of the tech?

Also, does this mean the whole idea of being able for a warp point to handle a certain tonnage is in the game?
Warp Point Tonnage Allowed Size Tiny := 100

Edit: Also, is there ruins on planets anymore? I haven't seen any at all.

[Kana]

President_Elect_Shang said:
That’s pretty much what I guessed it was. It would be frivolous anyway and I don’t see how you could picture some forms of government. For example I am modding in a Contemplative, Peaceful Anarchy, Religious Democracy, and Stalin Communist to name just 4 of 30.



I see a government mod on the horizon...

[President_Elect_Shang]

It is actually one part of my mod; however I could release it if there appears to be general interest?

[Kana]

Well if modders release small inovative parts of their mods, and allow other to use and disect them, we all can make and play even better mods...

[Devnullicus]

OK, I'm almost done with the component editor, but I've run into a little snag. I'm not sure if this is because of a bad assumption on my part or that the original data has some errors.

On any weapon component, there are a few extra values at the bottom of the component data - one of these sets:

Weapon Beam Burn Color, Weapon Beam Duration, Weapon Beam Speed
Weapon Beam Burn Color, Weapon Beam Duration
Weapon Bolt Speed
Weapon Seeker Speed Formula,Weapon Seeker Turn Rate,Weapon Seeker Tonnage Structure Formula,Weapon Seeker Defense Modifier Formula
Weapon Seeker Speed Formula,Weapon Seeker Tonnage Structure Formula,Weapon Seeker Defense Modifier Formula


I originally thought that these were controlled solely by the setting of "Weapon Delivery Type". For the most part, that's true, but then I started finding exceptions to that. So I analyzed a bit deeper and now I find that there really isn't a reliable pattern to determine which of the above sets a weapon will use. The only thing that does seem to hold true is that they will only use one of the above sets.

Is there a pattern I'm missing or are there errors in the data .. or ?

I've attached a spreadsheet with a breakdown of values from Captain Kwok's Balance Mod 0.92 (which is what I've been using as a base data set to test with). Change the extension to .csv to load it into excel easily.

Specifically, if I were to use Weapon Type and Weapon Delivery Type as a dual-key, then I could determine the Firing Type except for 2 anomalies: Shield Imploder and Alloy Burner Missile. Are these errors in the data or should I just figure that any of the above sets are possible for any weapon?

[Phoenix-D]

Thge "weapon delivery type" doesn't actually MEAN anything- the only time its ever references is "Weapon Delivery Type Damage Reduction" ability.

Try checking against the "weapon type", instead.
I think the "alloy burner missile" thing is a typo.

As far as I can tell, SEV simply ignores types it doesn't use, so this set should be safe:

Bolt: Weapon Bolt Speed
Seeker: Weapon Seeker Speed Formula,Weapon Seeker Turn Rate,Weapon Seeker Tonnage Structure Formula,Weapon Seeker Defense Modifier Formula
Beam: Weapon Beam Burn Color, Weapon Beam Duration, Weapon Beam Speed
Point-Defense: any of the above.

Or just let the user select one of the groups manually..

[Devnullicus]

I'm kind of figuring that the Shield Imploder and Alloy Burner Missile are typos, so I've decided to use the following algorithm:

<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>
public WeaponInfo.FiringType GetFiringType()
{
if( Type.Equals( "Direct Fire" )
|| Type.Equals( "Point-Defense" ) )
{
if( DeliveryType.Equals( "Energy Beam" ) )
{
return FiringType.BEAM;
}
else if( DeliveryType.Equals( "Energy Bolt" )
|| DeliveryType.Equals( "Missile" )
|| DeliveryType.Equals( "Projectile" ) )
{
return FiringType.BOLT;
}
}
else if( Type.Equals( "Seeking" ) )
{
if( DeliveryType.Equals( "Missile" ) )
{
return FiringType.SEEKER;
}
}
else if( Type.Equals( "Warhead" ) )
{
if( DeliveryType.Equals( "Warhead" ) )
{
return FiringType.BEAM;
}
}

return FiringType.NONE;
}
</pre><hr />

In addition, "Weapon Beam Speed" and "Seeker Turn Rate" seem to be optional data.

[Elsemeravin]

Does someone would know the name of the file containing the pictures for research ? I looked for it but cannot find it amound the whole large set of pictures and there doesn't seem to have a dedicated directory for these.

Thanks in advance for the information (as I guess everyone else but me knows...)

[Phoenix-D]

Seeker turn rate *is* optional, but without it a seeker will have a turn rate of 0. So its kind of important. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Devnullicus]

Phoenix-D said:
Seeker turn rate *is* optional, but without it a seeker will have a turn rate of 0. So its kind of important. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif



Well, then, these weapons all have turn rates of 0...

Crystalline Torpedo
Anti - Matter Torpedo
Gamma Pulse Torpedo
Graviton Hellbore
Null - Space Projector
Plague Bomb
Viral Bomb
Carcinogenic Bomb
Nanovirus Bomb
Mutagenic Bomb
Toxic Injector
Small Anti - Matter Torpedo

Makes sense for these, I guess, since neither torpedoes nor bombs are meant to be turned after firing, I would guess. Not sure about Graviton Hellbore or Null - Space Projector, though.

[President_Elect_Shang]

Elsemeravin said:
Does someone would know the name of the file containing the pictures for research ? I looked for it but cannot find it amound the whole large set of pictures and there doesn't seem to have a dedicated directory for these.

Thanks in advance for the information (as I guess everyone else but me knows...)



From your installation directory of SE5 go to:

Pictures --&gt; UI --&gt; Bmp_TechIcons.bmp

[Phoenix-D]

They all do. I'm not sure if its a typo or intentional, though.

[President_Elect_Shang]

Kana said:
Well if modders release small inovative parts of their mods, and allow other to use and disect them, we all can make and play even better mods...



I don’t mind sharing the text file when I am done putting it together. I didn’t mean to sound as if I didn’t want to share; just that I never considered that it would technically constitute a mod and could be released as such. I may just do that when I complete it.

[Devnullicus]

There are a number of weapons in components.txt that have "Weapons Platform" as elements of "Can Be Placed On Vehicle Types". I'm assuming that this is an error in the base data files? Or will the game accept that as well as "Weapon Platform"?

[Suicide Junkie]

There is a bug in 1.08 that will allow those to match even though they shouldn't.

[President_Elect_Shang]

Why do troops run when they have only received minor damage? I mean seriously; I have seen troops who have lost a little over half their armor turn and run. What setting controls this?

Edit: I seem to have a problem with what appears a simple question. Maybe I need more coffee? Anyway I want a component that will base its level off of two other tech areas.

Get_Empire_Tech_Level("Industrial Tech") &gt;= (1 + ([%Level%] - 1)) Get_Empire_Tech_Level("High Tech") &gt;= ([%Level%] - 1)

So when a player has Industrial Tech 2 and High Tech 3 the resulting item will have a level of 5 (2+3=5). How would I write that one?

[President_Elect_Shang]

bump

[Captain Kwok]

PES - It was a bug with troops. It has been fixed post v1.08, so looked for it in Mon/Tue patch.

[President_Elect_Shang]

Cool, what about the second part of my question; the edited in portion?

[Elsemeravin]

Some time ago we talked about creating a weapon whose damage was depending on some other component (like batteries for electric weapons).

I tried with the following:

Weapon Type := Direct Fire
Weapon Delivery Type := Energy Bolt
Weapon Target Type List := Ship, Base, Planet, Fighter, Satellite, Drone, Troop, Weapon Platform, Building
Weapon Damage Type Formula := "Normal"
Weapon Space At Range Distance Increment := 10.0
Weapon Space Min Damage At Range := 0.0
Weapon Space Max Damage At Range := 0.0
Weapon Space To Hit Modifier At Range := 0.0
Weapon Space Min Damage Modifier Formula := iif([%Range%] &lt;= 10 , 10 + 50 * Get_Design_Ability_Total("AI Tag 02",1) , 0)
Weapon Space Max Damage Modifier Formula := iif([%Range%] &lt;= 10 , 10 + 50 * Get_Design_Ability_Total("AI Tag 02",1) , 0)
Weapon Space To Hit Modifier Formula := 0
Weapon Ground At Range Distance Increment := 10.0
Weapon Ground Min Damage At Range := 0.0
Weapon Ground Max Damage At Range := 0.0
Weapon Ground To Hit Modifier At Range := 0.0
Weapon Ground Min Damage Modifier Formula := 0
Weapon Ground Max Damage Modifier Formula := 0
Weapon Ground To Hit Modifier Formula := 0 - [%Range%]
Weapon Reload Rate MS Formula := 10000
Weapon Display Type := Bolt
Weapon Space Display Effect Name := Small Bolt 6
Weapon Ground Display Effect Name := Bolt 6
Weapon Explosion Effect Name := [Random Specific Type] Weapon Explosion
Weapon Sound Effect Name := Small Telekinetic Projector
Weapon Bolt Speed := 0.06

and the link component has:

Ability 3 Type := AI Tag 02
Ability 3 Description := Provides the ship with 5kT of strength.
Ability 3 Scope := Space Object
Ability 3 Range Formula := 0
Ability 3 Amount 1 Formula := 5
Ability 3 Amount 2 Formula := 0


But it seems the function Get_Design_Ability_Total does not work in this formula. Would someone have an idea about this problem ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/confused.gif

Thanks in advance http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[shinigami]

Have you tried:

Weapon Space Min Damage Modifier Formula := iif([%Range%] &lt;= 10 , 10 + 50 * (Get_Design_Ability_Total("AI Tag 02")) , 0)
Weapon Space Max Damage Modifier Formula := iif([%Range%] &lt;= 10 , 10 + 50 * (Get_Design_Ability_Total("AI Tag 02")) , 0)

[President_Elect_Shang]

Elsemeravin said:
But it seems the function Get_Design_Ability_Total does not work in this formula. Would someone have an idea about this problem ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/confused.gif



I tried the same ability only it was on a ship in the VehicleSizes.txt; it didn’t work there either. I wonder if the formula works. If it does maybe we just need an example from Aaron to get it working right.

Can anyone tackle my question? I want to make a component whose total level is based on the total of two tech areas. Here is what I have so far:

Get_Empire_Tech_Level("Industrial Tech") &gt;= (1 + ([%Level%] - 1)) OR Get_Empire_Tech_Level("High Tech") &gt;= ([%Level%] - 1)

In my test game I have not gotten far enough to attain High Tech 1. I have only reached Industrial Tech 2 and thus far the components level is “Level 2” right where it should be. So does anyone want to take a stab at this?

[Phoenix-D]

That won't give you the total of the two, PES. What it'll do is base the level on the higher of the two (most likely..).

If you want it based on the average between the two, it'd be simpler to do:
((Get_Empire_Tech_Level("Industrial Tech") + Get_Empire_Tech_Level("High Tech")) / 2) &gt;= (1 + ([%Level%] - 1))

[President_Elect_Shang]

So I am allowed to add them together in one line... ahh!
I thought I had to seperate them with something, like AND, OR, anything. Cool!

[Phoenix-D]

AND/OR would return rather wacky results in this situation..

[President_Elect_Shang]

The only change I am making to your suggestion is to remove the divide by 2 portion. I didn’t want the average I want the two to add together.

[Fyron]

You can make whatever formulas you want, so long as you get some sort of boolean value in the end (I assume anything that is not 0 from arithmetic functions would be "true").

[Elsemeravin]

shinigami said:
Have you tried:

Weapon Space Min Damage Modifier Formula := iif([%Range%] &lt;= 10 , 10 + 50 * (Get_Design_Ability_Total("AI Tag 02")) , 0)
Weapon Space Max Damage Modifier Formula := iif([%Range%] &lt;= 10 , 10 + 50 * (Get_Design_Ability_Total("AI Tag 02")) , 0)



I did, still not working. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/fear.gif
Any help from the big guys ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Phoenix-D]

Get_Design_Ability isn't working right in many files at the moment.

[Elsemeravin]

Phoenix-D said:
Get_Design_Ability isn't working right in many files at the moment.



Thanks for the confirmation. I guess I'll focus on something else meanwhile. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif

[President_Elect_Shang]

I wonder if it would be possible to pull this thread apart. You know, move the on topic comments to there relative sections. Then a person wouldn’t need to skim through 25 pages of this that and the next thing. Just so I don’t confuse anyone the thread itself should stay incase anyone wants to read through it.

[Tampa_Gamer]

I suppose the easiest thing to do is cut/paste good information into relevant posts as they appear.

[President_Elect_Shang]

That’s what I was thinking but wasn’t sure if there was a better/faster way. I think I will start on that sometime in the near future. Here’s an idea, I will edit this post to comment on what page I am on, starting with page one of this thread (which is my page 25) and working forward. See what I mean? If I edit this post to read “Page 12” than I am on page 12; so simple even I can’t screw it up!

PAGE: 0

[Kana]

Is it possible to mod the launch components for units to restrict the size of the unit launchable? I'm fairly sure its not possible, but maybe someone has an idea...

[Phoenix-D]

Sort of. You can create new unit types to represent the different sizes..

[President_Elect_Shang]

That's the only way. Why what do you have up your sleeve? Can I take a peak?

[Kana]

Phoenix-D said:
Sort of. You can create new unit types to represent the different sizes..



Yeah but I can do that anyway...What I want is the launcher to be able to...Oh I get it...Like a Light Fighter Launcher, as apposed to a Bomber launcher...the Launcher component looks for Light Fighter or Bomber...cool...

Am I seeing this right?

[Phoenix-D]

Correct. The only problem is you have to specify the new unit in all the components and target types..

[Kana]

Yet if I'm making the units from scratch and including them already, then it wouldnt be that much of a problem...

Bascially what I wanted where to emulate the launch tubes, balcony/track system, and shuttle bays for SFB. Also PF links, and bombers. Bombers cant be launched from ships, so I was trying to find a way to limit them to just planets. Plus limiting fighters only from using the launch tubes as apposed to the regular shuttles from the shuttle bay. I assume I can list multiple unit types for each launch component. Like a shuttle bay could launch a shuttle, fighter, or even drop a mine out occasionally...

Now the only question is can I limit what the cargo hold ability can carry?

[Phoenix-D]

True. However the targeting list would probably get a bit unwieldy after a while.

[President_Elect_Shang]

Yes you can list multiple types. For example my shuttles bays can launch a shuttle or a pinnace. XO Racks can fire (launch) XO Weapon Pods or HAWK Pods. As for the cargo part afraid not; there is no way to control the types of cargo that can be stored. If you say a component has 50csp (cargo storage points) than anything that can be held as cargo will be eligible for storage in that 50csp component.

[Kana]

Thats what I figured...I guess as long as the 'oversized' unit cant be launched, it would just be taking up cargo space, which I guess is ok. I was just hoping we would be able to mod cargo cap it specific stuff, like troops, population, etc. I guess I will have to add an additional ability to the Barracks component to make it special.

[President_Elect_Shang]

Well, let’s take my HAWK Pods for instance. If I wanted to say that you can only store HAWK Pods in a new component called the HP Mag I could give the HP Mag the cargo ability, basically set it up to be the same as any cargo storage component. Then (and I haven’t tested this part) I should be able to add a requirement along these lines to ALL OTHER components that could also potentially store the HAWK Pod.

HAWK Pod Mag
Requirement 1 Description := This component can not be used to store HAWK Pods.
Requirement 1 Formula := Get_Design_Ability_Percentage_Of_Hull_Space("Storage Cargo Space Amount", "HAWK Pod") &lt;= 0

Now I have not tested this! However, if it works and you are willing to add it to all the storage type components it would do what you are looking for.

[Phoenix-D]

Won't work. SE5 only checks the requirements when designing, building or retrofitting a ship.

EDIT: and this is a good thing. Otherwise you'd be unable to make components obsolete. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[President_Elect_Shang]

Gee what a thought! Who in their right mind would want to create generational components?

[President_Elect_Shang]

You can’t make components obsolete right now!

[Phoenix-D]

Yes you can, once the bug about requirements checking during design is fixed. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

If you checked requirements on a ship, during a game, your Ion Engine ship could stop dead just because you had CT engines available to build..

[Elsemeravin]

President_Elect_Shang said:
You can’t make components obsolete right now!



you can by simply add a "Get_empire_tech_level("toto") &lt;= 5" requirement.

[Phoenix-D]

Nope. That isn't checked except on savegame load.

[President_Elect_Shang]

Or you can do it the way I am. Build an entire Mod based on generational tech. Test it by saving then reloading the game for needed updates and tweaking. And THEN proclaim to Phoenix-D and CPT Kwok that it is all working fine and THEY are wrong generational does work!

Wait… that really happened! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/redface.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/fear.gif

Sorry guys, I still feel bad about that one.

[Phoenix-D]

As I recall I'm the one that suggested the idea in the first place without testing it properly, so.. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Elsemeravin]

President_Elect_Shang said:
Build an entire Mod based on generational tech.



Can you explain (again?) what you mean by "generational tech" ? I haven't seen anything new here so I might have missed your point. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/confused.gif

[President_Elect_Shang]

This is essentially SE4 style tech were you can phase out one component in favor of another after meeting certain requirements. For example let’s say you start the game with Ion Engines and after reaching tech level 3 in area A and tech level 5 in area B the Ion Engine is removed from the components list and replaced by the Nuclear Engine. As it stands now you can design both those components and set the requirements to phase the one out when the other is developed. The problem is that SE5 is only checking the Components.txt file when the game is loaded, so using the above example the Ion Engine will stay in the components list with the Nuclear Engine until you the player quits SE5. When you start it back up the Ion Engine will be removed and only the Nuclear Engine will be available. The foundation of my mod rests on generational components. If this is not fixed by Aaron I am doomed. And it would hurt even more because I have been trying to create this mod since pre-Gold SE4 days.

[Elsemeravin]

However if I undertand correctly, you can still make the Ion Engine unusable once the Nuclear Engine is available, even if it is still appearing in the list.

Is that so different from what you expect ? It seems to be just a display glitch, isn't it ?

[President_Elect_Shang]

I don’t know of a way to make components unusable without adding restrictions to the vehicles they are to be used in. Also if they can be made unusable that would just make for a mod doomed to failure. Ask yourself if you would really want to play a mod that clutters the ship design screen with components that you aren’t even allowed to use? What you are describing is closer to a semi-generational component. Any generational mod must, by nature, have the components removed from the list.

If you can’t imagine what I am saying start a game of SE4, give yourself all tech to start with, go to design a ship, then make sure the “Only Latest” button is not selected. Now try scanning through all that. That is an example of what I am coining as semi-generational. Keep in mind this is an example of semi-generational. Meaning the components may be outdated but you can still use them. In the example above and in your question the components aren’t usable. They are just cluttering up space, in other words almost semi-generational.

[Phoenix-D]

Nope. If an item is displayed, you can use it. And the point is to get it off the list, really; making it unusable is just a side-effect.

[Elsemeravin]

I understand what you want to achieve and am trying to help you find a way out of this dead-end (in my limited abilities http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif).
In that case, can't you use requirement like below to avoid the current bug:

[%level%] &lt;= Get_Empire_Tech_Level("Ion Engine") OR [%level%] &lt;= Get_Empire_Tech_Level("Nuclear Engine") + 10

And you have max level for Ion Engine Tech of 10 and requirement for Nuclear Engine Tech like:
Get_Empire_Tech_Level("Ion Engine") &gt;= 10

Of course you still have the name problem (the engine will have the same name...) which will be only display glitch http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[President_Elect_Shang]

The components may be related by function but they are too different to build into a progression system like the one SE5 is using now. I think that is what you are trying to build in your post. I did try to make the components into a progressive system using iif statements. However, this did not work for many reasons.

Still I‘m not sure I follow your example. In your example the component will progress to tech level 10 in the tech area Ion Engine then the tech area Nuclear Engine will take over. This will affect what tech area controls the item but will not change the component that is being put in the ship unless that item is changing based on a formula that calls on [%Level%] to calculate cost or some such thing.

A true generational component uses one tech area to progress by, so the Ion Engine in our previous example would be set at tech level 1 for area A and the Nuclear Engine at tech level 3 in area A. Then you will need a trigger tech area, tech area B. So when you are at level 1 tech area A and B you have the Ion Engine. When you reach level 3 tech area A nothing happens until you reach level 4 in tech area B. At that time the generational effect kicks in and the Ion Engine is removed and the Nuclear Engine is released. Reading my earlier post I see I didn’t explain this very well. Since all of us modders dealt with generational components in SE4 I just assumed the bare explanation would do; my fault and my apologies for being so vague. Also I did test placing tech area A and B on the same requirement line using both AND and OR. The problem remains that the file needs to read afresh.

Maybe if you could give a little more detail please? Also keep in mind that the current problem to generational components is not the set up in the components requirements. The problem is that, no matter how you the requirements, the hard code tells the game to look at the Components.txt file once at load and that’s it. I do appreciate your thoughts and don’t want to discourage you from posting them. Maybe there is a backdoor and as you point out we may yet find it by sharing thoughts.

[Elsemeravin]

I'm sorry but I still don't get what is the difference between your "Ion engine" and your "Nuclear Engine" except the name.
Does the Nuclear engine has anything different from Ion Engine except the name and maybe 1 bonus mvt point ?

I understand now that you want only 1 Tech which provides 2 components, but I'm still interested in the difference you desire between the two engines http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[President_Elect_Shang]

The engine thing was only an example. I don’t use a Nuclear or Ion Engine in my mod. Here is an actual component from the Mod. At high Tech level 2 and Force Weapons level 1 you get the Force Projector. At High Tech level 4 and Force Weapons 2 You get the Force Beam. Here are the differences between the two and also why they must be entered as different components and not as progressive components:

1. The name but that’s a given! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
2. Tonnage Space, this could be done with an iif statement but not a formula.
3. Cost, which could be done with an iif statement but not a formula.
4. Vehicle type it can be placed on.
5. Requirements Formula.
6. Abilities change.
7. Min and max weapon damage changes.
8. Weapon To Hit modifier changes.
9. Weapon reload rate changes.

When I say they can’t be done with a formula I mean that the differences are so dynamic from one version to the next that there is no formula I can think of that would mimic the changes.

Using the example of the engines again. You may be able to write a single component that will phase out (in our example the Ion Engine) when another comes along (once again in our example the new one was the Nuclear Engine) however you can not phase the Nuclear Engine out when the Chity-Chity Bang-Bang Engine is developed unless you make a new component; which by definition means you have just made a generational component.

Now remember what I said at the start? This is only one example. Now imagine a mod that has absolutely nothing in common with Stock. All new tech areas, new vehicles, new vehicle types, new governments, no intelligence, new economy, and I think that about covers it. The example Force Projector and Force Beam are generational components. A generational component is one that can not be developed using a formula stuck in a few key places because there are too many changes from one version to the next. If it could be done with a clever formula or two it would be a progressive component.

Edited in: Also note that the Force Beam is not the final component in the Force Weapons line. Each new version phases out the one before.

[Phoenix-D]

On 2 and 3: you realize you can use iff statements in all formulas, right? I haven't tested it in components.txt yet, but it works in techareas.txt.

[President_Elect_Shang]

I have iif statements set in a few formulas but have not reached those techs in the testing yet. I will let you know what happens when I get there. I did say that I could use iif statements, I was saying that I could not use formulas.

Edited In: Oh I see what you’re saying. I could have used iif statements for all the fields that take formulas, right! I could have but there a few places such as weapon to hit and damage that I already have formulas in and that still wouldn’t help the many other places I can’t use formulas or iif statements. For example how do I tell the game the Force Beam can be put on bases if I am using the Force Projector in progressive style? It would have to be generational style or nothing.

[Elsemeravin]

I see, the first example was a bad one http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif
Of course if the two generation of components are so different then you are stuck in the well. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif

Like I am for my big spreadsheet defining 5/6 types of cloaking/sensors on different levels with interaction (like camo, gravity, invisibility, system wide code security) from se4 or my sets of plague levels, or my battery system for electric weapon (whose power depends on the number of battery onboard), or like the possibility to make requirement level-dependent for techs...

SO I can add one more and wait with you for correction ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[President_Elect_Shang]

I agree that was a really poor example for me to pick. Funny enough the only reason I did is that I thought using a component from the stock files was the best bet. Oh well! Anyway let me take a look at your spreadsheet, I can imagine several of the elements you are trying to make coming together; however, without a look or detailed understanding of some kind I can’t really help.

[Elsemeravin]

You can find most of my non-yet working ideas around here as in below threads, but all of them need Aaron work:

Plague extension (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Board=seivmod&amp;Number=458993&amp;Foru m=,All_Forums&amp;Words=&amp;Searchpage=2&amp;Limit=25&amp;Main=44 6823&amp;Search=true&amp;where=&amp;Name=2084&amp;daterange=&amp;newer val=&amp;newertype=&amp;olderval=&amp;oldertype=&amp;bodyprev=#Pos t458993)
Facilities building tree (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Board=UBB23&amp;Number=457939&amp;Forum= ,All_Forums&amp;Words=&amp;Searchpage=2&amp;Limit=25&amp;Main=4579 39&amp;Search=true&amp;where=&amp;Name=2084&amp;daterange=&amp;newerva l=&amp;newertype=&amp;olderval=&amp;oldertype=&amp;bodyprev=#Post4 57939)

And here for the sensor/cloak design:

Re: Modding SEV Thread Questions [Re: Q]
#453696 - Sat Oct 07 2006 03:20 PM

To know about the working one you'll have to wait for the release

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Noble713]

From the chat interview a few weeks ago:

[20:03] Combat_Wombat: Noble713 asks: Any possibility of removing hard-coded component limitations, such as only one Afterburner per fighter effective?

[20:04] Malfador: Its not so much a hard-coded limitation. Its more of a Min function on the ability type. So that 2 afterburners don't give you double the effect.



Anyone come up with any work-arounds that will enable stackable afterburners? I haven't been able to find a way of changing the "Min function on the ability type" that Aaron mentions. I tried using Get_Design_Ability_Total and an AI Tag to set the combat movement generated by each component = to the total number of engines. I added this ability to both the individual engine components and to the vehicle hulls themselves and neither worked.

It's really annoying b/c I've used Get_Design_Ability_Total in both files before and it has worked (component-based crew AI Tag, and a hull requirement of having sufficient crew quarters/life support for the crew AI Tag).

[Nuclear_Winter]

What is the format for custom mod logos when starting a new game?

When I create a bitmap for my mod logo it says it cannot find the file. I have checked the Mod Definitions and the name of the file in the text is the exact name of the bitmap file. I dont know what else to do. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/confused.gif

EDIT: Hmmm. I just changed the file format to jpeg and it works. What is the settings for bitmaps?

[MrToxin]

Is there a command that lets you alter the maximum population of a planet? I can't seem to find one and would like to explore some population expanding gadgetry.

[President_Elect_Shang]

PlanetSize.txt will allow you to control the maximum population a planet size can have; however, there is no ability which can be plugged into a component or facility to allow that number to be increased or decreased at a later time.

[Kana]

Aren't there some organic stuff that allows you to 'grow' population...?

[MrToxin]

President_Elect_Shang said:
PlanetSize.txt will allow you to control the maximum population a planet size can have; however, there is no ability which can be plugged into a component or facility to allow that number to be increased or decreased at a later time.



Hmm...actually, after searching through all the files, I think there may be.


Abilities_Const 113 := Planet Maximum Population



I found that in the MainStrings file. I'm going to tinker with it and see what it does. If it does what I want it to do, this could get real interesting.

If not, I'll just cut that feature from the mod and go from there.

In other news, I'm doing some tinkering with the Ringworld and Sphereworld. See, a Ringworld is supposed to have 6,000,000 times the surface area of Earth. A Sphereworld 100 times taht. So I'm plugging those numbers into the game and seeing what sort of mathmatical vomiting I get back.

That means that the maximum population ends up somewhere in the quintillions, by the way. More for the Sphereworld.

[Q]

How could you make a facility that increases population loyalty or how could you add this ability to troops?

[MrToxin]

Q said:
How could you make a facility that increases population loyalty or how could you add this ability to troops?



That would be the Planet Population Loyalty ability, I do believe. I'm not entirely sure a troop would be able to use it, but a facility should.

[Q]

Tried it with the urban pacification center where I added a third ability:

Ability 3 Type := Planet Population Loyalty
Ability 3 Description := Urban Pacification Center improves population loyalty in this system by [%Amount1%]% each turn.
Ability 3 Scope := System - This Player
Ability 3 Range Formula := 0
Ability 3 Amount 1 Formula := 1 + (([%Level%] - 1) * 0.5)
Ability 3 Amount 2 Formula := 0

This displays an effect of 5.5% increase of loyalty per turn in the system. But it does not work.

[Elsemeravin]

Are you sure it is not per year instead of per turn ? (just in case)

[MrToxin]

Q said:
Tried it with the urban pacification center where I added a third ability:

Ability 3 Type := Planet Population Loyalty
Ability 3 Description := Urban Pacification Center improves population loyalty in this system by [%Amount1%]% each turn.
Ability 3 Scope := System - This Player
Ability 3 Range Formula := 0
Ability 3 Amount 1 Formula := 1 + (([%Level%] - 1) * 0.5)
Ability 3 Amount 2 Formula := 0

This displays an effect of 5.5% increase of loyalty per turn in the system. But it does not work.



That may warrant some exploration, then. It may only work on a galaxy-wide or specific planet basis.

[President_Elect_Shang]

MrToxin said:
Hmm...actually, after searching through all the files, I think there may be... Abilities_Const 113 := Planet Maximum Population



Well I can’t recall ever seeing that line, and then again there are so many… I suspect this is an ability that is not yet in use. There are other abilities listed there that have no known effect but only testing will tell for sure!

[MrToxin]

President_Elect_Shang said:

MrToxin said:
Hmm...actually, after searching through all the files, I think there may be... Abilities_Const 113 := Planet Maximum Population



Well I can’t recall ever seeing that line, and then again there are so many… I suspect this is an ability that is not yet in use. There are other abilities listed there that have no known effect but only testing will tell for sure!



Yeah, that's the big one I'm tinkering with right now...if all else fails, I'm thinking having various technologies referenced in the planet size file itself. I assume pretty much everything can be a forumla, correct?

[President_Elect_Shang]

As long as you see the word formula to the left on the same line! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Kana]

Anyone have any idea what scale 1 hex is supposed to be on the System map?

I know that in combat the term LS, or Light-Second is as the increment descriptor of range. A LS being about 300,000km.

What is the total possible size of the combat area? I guess the maximum retreat area? I would assume what ever that number is the size in LS of the combat area, which would then be the rough area of a hex on the system map in LS.

[Phoenix-D]

Don't even try to make sense of the numbers. It'll break your head. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Example: a frigate moving at 12 KM/s will, in reality, cross a LS in 25,000 seconds or about 7 HOURS. In SE5, that takes less than a second.

[Captain Kwok]

I personally treat the ranges in combat as Km.

[Phoenix-D]

Which means that a CSM fired from a laucher heavier than most current navy ships has less range than the missiles those ships carry..

[President_Elect_Shang]

The max the combat map can be set at is 5000 I believe. Now I took a ship of known speed (8km/s) and entered the combat area with another ship (in the simulator). I timed how long it took for the ship to travel from one side of the map to the other in a straight line. Yes I am nuts and yes I do have massive amounts of patience. It took20:97:655 but lets just say 20 minutes and 18 seconds or 1,218 seconds. Now using the old formula we get:

d=8*1218 which works out to 9,744 units. Far too short of a light second.

Did I do this right? Where is Fyron when you need him?

[Kana]

Still is is useful information...that is about 1/30th of a LS.

Yeah I know trying to wrap your mind around the scale is confusing...yet it would see that would be a smart place to start making a game from. If you are going to use real measurments, then you should at least make sure they make sense across the board. If your using hexes, or units then use them. Once you quantify them, then your in a pickle...Now if we could actually change them in mainstrings.txt that would be even better...

[President_Elect_Shang]

Well the first problem I see is that the combat is run on squares and the system is run on hexes. Unfortunately I think you are shooting for a level of realism that SE5 just can’t deliver. For my purposes I use these terms:

1 square in the combat map is 1ls (light second).
1 hex on the system map is 1lm (light minute).

Obviously this has its flaws, but as I said SE5 just can’t offer that up. Another trick you might try is to determine the scale of the combat map the best you can; you might find something I didn’t, and then adjust the system map to better match your needs. Finally while you are pondering all of this keep in mind that weapons won’t fire on system map so any scale over combat is for all practical purposes useless for the player. Just the modder as we try to lay out the systems.

[President_Elect_Shang]

Sometimes I don’t understand why I want to do things the hardest way. I ran the distance test again and here is what I did. I sent the ships to opposite corners, aimed the weapons, and then checked the info screen to see what it said the distance was. Results:

9,499.79 km with each ship at its closest point to the edge of a 5000.0 combat map which meant there were 12 squares from each ship to the retreat line. This is in lines with the result I had which included these 24 squares.

Now light travels at 299,792,458 km/s so that means our combat map is 9,499.79 / 299,792,458 = 3.16878885592E-5. In terms us non-scientific just wanna play the game freaks can understand it’s about 9,499.79km or 5,902.8958383 miles. Ok Kana enough of this my head hurts now!

[Kana]

Actually light travels at 299,792,458 METERS/sec. Which is 299,792.456 KM/sec. For all intensive purposes thats about 300,000 KM/sec = 1 Light Second.

So basically the combat map is 9,499.79/299,792.458 = 0.031687 = 3.1687 percent of a Light Second.

So the combat map is a max of approximately 9,500KM across. I assume the map is square. So that is 90,250,000 KM of combat area. Ok now my head is starting to hurt. I'm going to assume that each system hex is 10,000 km in size. 1 Million KM of area.

So basically the weapon ranges need to be in KM to match the speeds of movement which are in KM/sec, which match the combat time which is in minutes and seconds. So has anyone changed anything in mainstrings.txt to change the combat range descriptor to KM? Or are most of you just ignoring that it says LS, and think of it as KM?

Well this all actually helps me for both of my mods, I just now have to figure out how I want to implement the information.

[President_Elect_Shang]

So that was 299,792_point_458! That web site was so hard to read! Um, MainStrings.txt! Well I suppose I need to setup a Knowledge Base for that next before I forget what I have already done. The MainStrings.txt seems to be the hidden key to unlocking everything you can do in SE5. I’m surprised no one else has modded it. Wow I really am pioneering some new ground here aren’t here?

Since I won’t be setting up that KB till later here is what I will add. I have managed to change text but you cannot delete any lines. Even if you renumber to close the gap up when you start SE5 it will complain the lines are missing and stop running. You can rename items but if they start up with a blue box as in the main startup screen you need to replace any text you remove with a place holder or the box will move to sit on the one above it. For example let’s say you want to remove the option for no warp points. You will need to delete the text then place something there (I placed “No Longer Used”) so the box that was no warp points won’t move up and sit on the box above it. You will be able to change the text to say km/s instead of ls. Just make sure it is not a descriptor for a formula, which I am not aware of any that use ls. Also if you need to know what formula descriptors you can use (an example of what I am calling a descriptor would be Get_Empire_Tech_Level) just look in the MainString.txt. It won’t tell you how to use it or which files it can be used in but so far every descriptor I have pulled from there works after figuring out how to plug the info in. Just remember that all of the descriptors listed there have had the capital letter removed and you will need to replace it. In other words using the same example I just gave Get_Empire_Tech_Level appears in MainStrings.txt as get_empire_tech_level. So you would need to replace the letters G, E, T, and L with the capitalized version. I will post all this more clearly (I hope) later today or tonight.

[Kana]

About those descriptors, Did you get the description files from Kwok's yet, PES?

http://www.captainkwok.net/files/DescriptionFiles.zip

[President_Elect_Shang]

I did thank you; but the main string contains all of them. I think it even has ones that aren’t working yet.

[Kana]

Are we sure that the Combat Radius can only be set to a Max of 5000? What are you basing this info on? I mean if it lets us change it in settings.txt I could in theory set it for any number unless there is something hardcoded that would prevent it. I assume you've tried 5000 PES? Has anyone else tried anything over 5000? I will have to consider doing some tests myself... I can see the only downsides that it make take up some more FPS on the slower systems, and all the ships and such will end up being really tiny in the zoom screen, but we can adjust that as well. Is there a max zoom amount? I ask because I want to know how much room in combat I have to work with, or can make to work with. Of course I think it was mentioned that weapons have a max range of 500 anyway which I just remembered, and the game will only display up to 300. Bah...

[President_Elect_Shang]

Right the max combat of 5000 is hearsay from one of the Beta Testers. I have tested the combat map at 5000 and it is insanely large. Even with combat set at 7 minutes the two sides couldn’t reach each other at my max ship speed of 8km/s. The ships were very tiny, so tiny I had to use the weapon range ring just to locate those little dots and zoom in! I have no idea what the max for zoom range is although there must be one. Setting the combat map larger wouldn’t cause me to be concerned about the FPS. I would be worried about multiplayer games where combat never happens but the turn takes for ever to run because a ship is trying to flee the whole time. Remember that with SE5 v1.17 combat will continue until time runs out. If you set the combat map to 5000 you will need to increase the combat time so all players have the best possible chance to fight and even force retreat on another player if that is their goal. If the ship can’t reach the retreat line and the time runs out retreat never happens and you will end up with a series of battles taking place in one system hex when it should have been spread over several. Also if you increase the combat time the turn processing will surpass most any humans’ tolerance level if there are one or more AI empires. I know you are aiming for reality in your mods but; like the Matrix, you are still bound by the laws of this reality Neo. You can bend them but they won’t break! Just try to keep these things in mind so you don’t end up building a great mod that dies because it takes forever for the first turn to process!

[Kana]

Darn you Daggit...There is always someone busting my modding bubble...Yeah small size would be a problem in a simo game, but the time/retreat thing could be an issue...I guess I will have to severely scale down everything even more...I seem to be limited by range of weapons in SEV anyway so I will have to just start from there.

On the plus side, while using a search function on mainstrings.txt, it seems that you can change the moniker for ship speed so you can have it in km/s or G's, or even warp factors if one wants...That will help with my sanity some...

[President_Elect_Shang]

Kana said:
...it seems that you can change the moniker for ship speed so you can have it in km/s or G's, or even warp factors if one wants...



I said that in an earlier post. I even changed the startup screen so that “No Warp Points’ was replaced with “Not Used”. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Sorry to flatten your designs there http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[Fyron]

Shouldn't we try to make life easier for everyone down the road by making new threads for new questions and discussions, and let this one retire gracefully?

[President_Elect_Shang]

You know that is a fine idea. Lets all move out to the main forum. The discussion can happen there and the Knowledge Base can form here. Now if I can just take a break from my project to work on sorting the info in this thread and a few others “out there” a wealth of info will be compiled.

[Fyron]

Might I suggest wikiing it (http://wiki.spaceempires.net/index.php/Modding_Tutorials_%28SEV%29)?

[Kana]

I think he wants to have it in an organized format so that he can do such a thing...Since its my original thread, I guess I will have to help in such an endevor...

[President_Elect_Shang]

Even between the two of us I think a little more gray will grow! Wiki would be good also. I mean how much more work could it be to paste here and there?

[Kana]

Well we do want it to look good and make sense...so cut and paste might be alittle messy...

[President_Elect_Shang]

Summarize with proper credit?

[Kana]

Roger Dodger...
Well there are currently 30 pages...How do you want to split it up? I take the first 15 and you the last 15? Basically I started the thread, so I deal with the pages 1 to 15, and you get 16 to 30 since alot of those are your questions. Also I guess we need to split them up by category. I assume we are going to do it by data file name?

[Zed]

AI not Colonizing

When starting a game that allows colonization of breathable planets only, the AI doesn't colonize a single planet more than what they have at the start of the game.

I have tried to find why the colony ships are skipped when the construction queues are being set up, but haven't been successful.

Is this a bug that has to be patched, or can it be fixed via a mod?

Zed

[President_Elect_Shang]

Here is the link to the copy and paste of your question here (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Number=480652&amp;page=0&amp;view=collap sed&amp;sb=5&amp;o=14&amp;fpart=&amp;vc=#Post480652)


Zed said:
AI not Colonizing

When starting a game that allows colonization of breathable planets only, the AI doesn't colonize a single planet more than what they have at the start of the game.

I have tried to find why the colony ships are skipped when the construction queues are being set up, but haven't been successful.

Is this a bug that has to be patched, or can it be fixed via a mod?

Zed



Good question and I am not sure if it is a bug. I am going to copy and paste this into the main forum since it isn’t really a question about modding. I suspect it has to do with the AI not being able to remember things once out of sight. In other words what I suspect is that the AI sees a planet it can colonize, moves out of range, and then forgets before it has even had the chance to send build orders to the queue.

[Raapys]

Uhuh, perhaps I've gone blind but there's a few settings I'm having trouble finding: Where can we specify the general maintenance rate for ships, buildings and units?
And where can we specify the 'starting build rate' for planets? I.e. when they don't currently have space yards.

[Phoenix-D]

Settings.txt has all the base maintenance rates, as well as the basic build rate.

[Raapys]

Thanks, the wording must've fooled me a little the first time around.