What if Space Empires VI went Open Source?

[inigma]

Just think, SEVI as an Open Source with Aaron at the helm... what do you think?

[Wade]

Elaborate,please, on "Open Source" as it would apply to the game.

[Phoenix-D]

Will not happen, as SFI has the rights to the game.

Would be a really bad idea, seeing as the open source people object to making money on a program and this is Aaron's *income*.

Would not help game development in any signifcant manner.

[StarShadow]

"Will not happen, as SFI has the rights to the game."

SFI has rights to all future versions?

[Fyron]

Civ 4 is almost open source, you know. Much of the game logic is in python scripts, the data is in XML files. They released the source code SDK for the gamecore.dll file, which contains most of the rest of the game logic that is not done in the python scripts. Seems to be working well for them. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Phoenix-D]

StarShadow said:
"Will not happen, as SFI has the rights to the game."

SFI has rights to all future versions?



That's how I read the press release they put out when SFI aquired MM, yes.

Fyron: most open source groups would say Civ4 doesn't count. You still have to buy the software, restricve EULA, etc. And I still doubt it would help much if MM went that route..

[StarShadow]

I hope Aaron doesn't end up regretting that, with SFI in control they could decide to disallow any future releases.

[Fyron]

That depends... "open source" does not really mean "free source," just that the source code is open for inspection and modification (and not necessarily to the public). Open source apps tend to be free, but the two things are different beasts. Most of the important Civ4 source is open, it is just not "free" (though the SDK is free, you still need a bunch of closed source backbone in the exe to make much use of it).

[dogscoff]

Am I dreaming or was there a promise to release the SEIII source when SEV came out?

[David E. Gervais]

Phoenix-D said:

That's how I read the press release they put out when SFI aquired MM, yes.



Let me set something straight, either the press report was badly written or totally wrong.. SFI Aquired 'Intellectual Property' From Malfador. The Intellectual Property is the Space Empires Brand/Lable/Franchise (this includes All Past, Present and Future Space Empires Games) Aaron is still the owner, opperator and main man behind Malfador Machinations.

Now the questions that pop into my mind are..

Q1: "Will SFI go with a different Developer for SE6" (Would be a really stupid decision but they have made worse)

Q2: "Did Aaron sell the Space Empires Franchise because he feels he has done it to death and wants to move on? (Remember he has been doing this for over 10 years now)

Q3: If the answer to #2 is 'Yes',.. "what wonderfull ideas are growing in Aaron's mind as we speak." (I trust Aaron to do what is right for himself, his company and his family. You should have trust in him too.)

Anyone care to answer? Hmmm, wait.. asking questions or speculating on info we don't know, only fans the rumor mill fires. Someone call the fire department, we got some bushfires to put out.

Nuf Said,.. returning to lurk mode.

Cheers! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Gandalf Parker]

I was really hoping that Aaron would take the added player-base gained by taking SEV to a shelfware, marketing, advertising publisher.. and return to Shrapnel or some other online and publicity publisher for version VI. I would think by then he would be tired of the continual fights over numbers sold and long waits for profit checks which go hand in hand with that type of publisher. But I guess that letting Strat1st buy him out was another way of handling that.

[Urendi Maleldil]

A project can be open source and still be commercial. "Free and Open Source" means free as in "speech," but not necessarily free as in "beer."

[Phoenix-D]

Urendi Maleldil said:
A project can be open source and still be commercial. "Free and Open Source" means free as in "speech," but not necessarily free as in "beer."



Not unless the images or some other file are closed-source, or you aren't allowed access to the code until you buy the product.

[Gandalf Parker]

Thats not true. There are open source projects that sell their stuff on discs. Sure it can be dug up and downloaded for nothing by people who will look for it but the CDs still sell well. Not to mention the other merchandising such as tshirts, mugs, mousepads, posters (which I still want to see SEV do some of)

For example, the Debian Linux Operating System is that way. Open source and free to download but sells the discs.

[Atrocities]

"What if Space Empires VI went Open"

Never going to happen.

[capnq]

David E. Gervais said:Q1: "Will SFI go with a different Developer for SE6" (Would be a really stupid decision but they have made worse)

Q2: "Did Aaron sell the Space Empires Franchise because he feels he has done it to death and wants to move on? (Remember he has been doing this for over 10 years now)

I believe both of these answers are "no". Aaron has stated in at least one interview something to the effect that selling the rights to SE V to Strategy First will make doing SE VI possible. (I will look for the source of this later, unless someone else posts a link to it first.)

Edit: Here's the quote, from http://www.firingsquad.com/news/newsarticle.asp?searchid=11601 :
FiringSquad: First, why did you wish to sell Malfador to Strategy First?

Aaron Hall: Well, I didn't actually sell the company, just the rights to the games. Strategy First was going to sell them all for us anyway, and with this we get a much better deal and funding for future game development. This deal means that there will most likely be a Space Empires VI.



Regarding SE going open source: the number of open source projects that actually produce something compared to the number of projects that are started is a depressingly small percentage. Open source projects need a rare combination of factors to succeed, even when they're not trying to turn a profit.

When was the last time anyone has heard anything from the volunteer group that was trying to design the successor to PBW? I don't even want to do a search on that, because I think the answer will depress me.

[Fyron]

The PBW2 project stopped mostly because they had no idea what they would have to do to support SE5. It's hard to design a support system around a game you know nothing about. I dunno when (if?) it will start back up now that SE5 is coming out, though.

[Captain Kwok]

It turns out we started the project 3 years too early...
http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/uploads/447356-pbw-interface1.png

[Urendi Maleldil]

One big example is Red Hat Linux. They charge for service, support, and proprietary software. But the core app is Open Source.

[boran_blok]

I would charge for the app, but keep it open source. with some fancy DRM stuff (activation-key-esque) this would be possible.

This offers the best of borth worlds, You have to buy it, and it's open source. the key-thinggie will probably be the hard thing to design and implement.

[Will]

Imperator Fyron said:
The PBW2 project stopped mostly because they had no idea what they would have to do to support SE5. It's hard to design a support system around a game you know nothing about. I dunno when (if?) it will start back up now that SE5 is coming out, though.


Fyron's got it right here. We could have worked on the assumption that multiplayer would work exactly like for SEIV, but then a lot of work could have gone to nothing if things were changed. Then there was also the question of what extra features could be added; PBW now is very bare-bones, all it does is blindly take turn files, execute the turn, and zip and mail if there are no errors. Everything depends on external sources setting up things. But, if there is support in SEV, we could possibly do things like online empire creation, online game creation, etc.

Anyway, I would have started looking into a new iteration of PBW as soon as the demo came out, but as it is only single-player, I still don't know how multiplayer would work. Once the game is released and we know all that, I would dive right into design discussions, and help out with any needed coding.

As for SEVI open-sourced, I doubt it. Although there isn't really anything stopping a fan-initiated open source game (besides motivation), it wouldn't officially be SEVI (due to trademark issues, etc).

[Gandalf Parker]

There are open source projects trying to recreate things like Stars!

Also, Shrapnel had a thread about "whats the next game you would like to see" and they have a fairly open-door policy.

I think Aaron has done a great job, but the talent represented by the crowd here is extensive. If they all jumped into a project I tihnk it would be great. I have some ideas for beating the "huge game" limitations and allowing for larger maps, more planets, planets whose appearance changes with game play, more nations, random nations, unique names, non-linear AI's, and majorly increased random events. All of those are items which tend to have to be cut back when they make the game too large to fit on a CD.

And of course Id love to see client and host seperated, with a host that will run on linux servers http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Gandalf Parker

[gregebowman]

Someone mentioned in another thread that there might be the possiblity of the source code for SE II or III available so that someone like Nintendo might make a Gameboy verion of it. Is this a possibility, or someone making a wish? I'd like to see this, because I don't think I've seen a 4x game for the gameboy. Or maybe for a cellphone? I've downloaded versions of Sim City and Might & Magic and Age of Empires II on my cell phone. I'd love to see a version of SE on there also. Anybody know the possibilty of this happening?

[tmcc]

There is also a project ongoing like this called Free Orion. They have a playable v0.3.x demo available that looks and plays very nice, but has no AI yet and I don't think it has a combat module yet either. Reading through the forum I don't see much reference to the SE series so they may be able to pick up some ideas. It's main focus is to re-capture the magic that was in the original MOO in an updated and modern format.