SE:V AI Diplomacy Observations

[Captain Kwok]

I need some help in diagnosing the AIs that might have their diplomacy borked... so please post the name of the AI races that you've seen handle diplomacy proactively, as in propose new treaties... and which races are only threatening you about being in their systems and not really anything else?

[AAshbery76]

The Abbidon send overly large treaties.The Amonkrie do nothing,in my games.

[Noble713]

Propose Treaties: Amon'Krie
Threaten: Xiati?
Don't do anything: All of the neutrals.

[Q]

Xiati proposed treaties, refused quite often my counter proposals but accepted eventually one of my counter proposal.

[tmcc]

In my current game the Zudoc Federation has done nothing political at all, no warnings, threats, or treaty requests and they have not responed to any of my treaty requests.

Also the Abbidon proposed "non agression" treaties that included large amounts of trade and banned research. They also never surrendered even after I had them down to just their homeworld with no ships, bases, units, or facilities left and only about 1/2 their starting pop. Man I wanted that gas colonization tech. In SEIV they would definitely have surrendered.

TM

[ToddT]

lets see Xiati i have a conflict resolution treaty with trade 10% of smaller empire recently upped to 20% by ai, and required to seend all enemy ship designs (I believe as in other than mine message log seems to bear that out)
Amnokrie kept demanding i leave yukra (sp) system and now at war, have no idea where that system is never been there.
update, xiate appear to be also sending enemy ship designs, only they sent the whole ship...?... ran one more turn have another ship of ai alien design.

[MasterChiToes]

The Abbidon tend to be treaty-happy... they will send a second treaty request before I can reply to the first. Their offers are usually bad deals but they will accept reasonable counter treaties.

I once was offered a treaty by another species, don't recall which (probably Xiati)... but it forbade any other treaties, which really pissed off the Abbidon who wouldn't stop requesting treaties.

[FaultyAirlock]

In my last game the Terrans sent me a treaty. Amonkrie pretty much do nothing but occasionally demand I leave, but they did accept the treaty I offered (although it was a rather lopsided one; it involved them giving me 15% of their resource income each turn in exchange for nothing at all).

[capnq]

MasterChiToes said: I once was offered a treaty by another species, don't recall which (probably Xiati)... <font color="red">but it forbade any other treaties,</font> which really pissed off the Abbidon who wouldn't stop requesting treaties.

This could be the solution to why some AIs don't respond to treaties; they've accepted one of these treaties from another AI!

[tmcc]

Maybe so, but they should at least respond turning down the offer

[Captain Kwok]

The main modifier I think has the most effect on diplomacy is the categorization of each empire. There are 3: Peaceful, neutral, and aggressive. Each adds various modifiers in the AI scripts for diplomacy. The friendly AIs like the Phong or EEE come around first, while the others require an improvement to their mood before they will interact in "positive" terms. Overall the behaviour isn't working out too badly, with the exception of the random treaty elements.

[Captain Kwok]

One of my new favourite things with the intel is the AIs asking for economic assistance which is good - but when I'm generous enough to give them 50K minerals they decline my gift saying it's worthless - I'm looking at you General Takei of the Terran Confederation... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Q]

Captain Kwok said:
One of my new favourite things with the intel is the AIs asking for economic assistance which is good - but when I'm generous enough to give them 50K minerals they decline my gift saying it's worthless - I'm looking at you General Takei of the Terran Confederation... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif



Exactly!
Next time they ask I will give them any assistance they need with my fleets blasting them into oblivion. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif

But as betatester do you think the problems of the AI with the new more complex diplomacy can be fixed by modding?

[Captain Kwok]

Almost all of it can be affected by modding. Most of the work will revolve around constructing various conditional statements around the various treaty options, which will take some time to make and test.

[Slick]

Seems more like a game engine function to me for an AI to carry through on diplomacy actions, or even remember what was asked/offered for more than 1 turn.

[Captain Kwok]

Slick said:
Seems more like a game engine function to me for an AI to carry through on diplomacy actions, or even remember what was asked/offered for more than 1 turn.

Not so. In fact, most of these items are contained in the AI scripts - which are really just exposed parts of the game engine. There are several functions that revolve around political memory so it's not hopeless. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Slick]

There are multi-turn diplomatic agreements that I'm very skeptical could be handled in the data files. For instance, how would you have the AI respond to "get your ships out of system xxxx" or "help me against yyy empire". Sure for the second one, the AI could just declare war on yyy empire, but actual help would mean a coordinated emphasis on attacking yyy and protecting my empire's assets. In the first example, the AI, even if he agrees which has never been observed, is just as likely to turn right back around and re-enter the system. Upholding these diplomatic agreements long term looks bleak to me.

I sure hope this is moddable because there is no evidence of such depth in the demo. I could never foresee a good reason where, for example, both empires in a treaty would want to agree that neither could perform research. I can't see why it is even an option, but some AI's want it. One of the basics of SE is staying up with technology and it seems that the AI isn't aware of this need. I'm hoping that they don't agree amongst themselves not to research anything. The AI is easy enough as it is.

There should be some absolutes for the AI in a 4X game. And those are the 4 X's, long term. Yes, it may be advantageous right now for us to have a treaty or alliance, but, unless allied victories are the goal, at some point, I'm breaking the treaty and kicking your butt because I want to win. And so should the AI; long term. The victory conditions set should guide the AI behavior on long term strategy in the game. The balance between long term goals and short term goals, which may conflict, seems to be non-existent.

I'll wait and see what any mods produce in this area.

[arthurtuxedo]

One problem I've noticed with AI diplomacy is that when they ask for assistance, they don't tell you who you're supposed to be assisting them against and in what system they're being attacked, so it makes things kind of difficult.

[Mephisto]

I had a close look on these files in the past and I really think that it can be modded in. It will be a huge task, but it seems possible to me. Remember, the script files offer far more power then any data files. You can now create a memory for the AI and, IIRC, save it.

[Phoenix-D]

Why are the AI files .csf's, anyway? Does compliling them really take long enough that the game couldn't do it on-the-fly?

Also, request for all SE5 modders: please include the original txt files with your mods and not just the compiled scripts!

[Captain Kwok]

Phoenix-D said:
Why are the AI files .csf's, anyway? Does compliling them really take long enough that the game couldn't do it on-the-fly?

Like we need another small delay for loading/processing. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif