Hebrew derived position suggestions

[DrPraetorious]

There have been suggestions floating around about doing a Hebrew-themed nation. Here are my suggestions - if the developers aren't going to do it, I'll shoulder part of the work if someone else is working on it (as soon as I actually have the game.)

Is wikipedia accurate? Maybe, probably not. But if it's cool, we don't care, since we're not trying to be accurate.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nephilim
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_history
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_and_the_Crusades

Early Era
This is pre-Abrahmic Canaan. It should be pointed out that archeological evidence for a Hebrew displacement of pre-Hebrew Canaanites is non-existent.
You have standard primitive infantry but no cavalry.
Your charioteers are all Nephilim or Anakim, who are giants - they're sacred, a size level up from people, and have awe. Nephilim princes are priests who have nature, blood and fire. Since you're from the same part of the world (very roughly) as pythium, perhaps your chariots should be pulled by lizards instead of horses.
You can also recruit Witches - who are brides to the Nephilim. They're cheap and have random sorcery.
You get a better deal on summoning fallen angels (nation specific blood spells), and your fallen angels are sacred with a better mix of magic.

Middle Era (Early Era?)
One option is to swap the Hebrews out for Arabs or Persians in the Middle Era - but I haven't seen a final list of nations. If we do that, we make these guys early era.
Assuming we want more Jews, we'll go first (Judges, Kings) and second (Persian Empire) temple period rather than actually drawing on dark ages (Byzantine period) - since Pythium is already in game. We could use these guys for early period, if we want early period Jews who are more recognizably Jewish - but these guys are roughly contemparaneous with the Roman empire, a period we're kinda skipping, and they had oodles of steel.
Again, you have standard period infantry and cavalry. You may have serpent cataphracts (instead of horses) since you're near pythium geographically. You have three sacred units - Slingers (after David, natch), Destroyers, who are infantry (after Gideon) that are very skilled but otherwise unexceptional, and Hammers (after Judas Maccabeus,) who are very stealthy, light (lizard?) cavalry, who don't use supplies during sieges.
The judges have overthrown the nephilim - judges are big priests, with astral, fire and nature, and they reduce unrest just by existing. Judge-prophets are extra-groovy. Hammer generals are just priests, but they're stealthy light cavalry commanders.
Your capital has the "Temple Mount", of course.

Late Era
These are modeled on the states present in Canaan during the first crusade - they were vassals of various Arab neighbors but I digress. While they're at it, they get the Kabalists that were actually in Europe during this period.
You finally get Kabalists. This should be a relatively strong magic position. Kabalists all have astral, and they have random elemental. They're not terribly large, but they make automatic communions, which is about the only way to get milage out of magic in late period anyway. Kabalists are sacred but they are NOT priests.
Rabbis are just priests.
Other than that, you get kinda lousy infantry, and you get Hammers again, but this time they have better weaponry and aren't stealthy. Your crossbowmen are better than average.
Your capital has the "Dome of the Rock". It makes Hammers and up-sized kabalists.

Thoughts?

[Nerfix]

Hmmm, interesting, very interesting. I also had such a project going with the help of some other people.

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=dom2scen&Number=427907&pag e=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

Check it out. I had the idea that early age would be age of powerful priest-mage prophets, middle era would be byblical Israel during the reign of Solomon and magic has started to shift away from religion. I also had idea of late era being the era of Kabalists and Rabbis where priestly skills and magic have split for good.

They would be able to summon regular angels, Kruvim and some powerful unique angels. I'm not sure if we can mod national summons though...

All the stuff in the thread would be for Early era.

However then I learned Illwinter has a plan to make a hebrew dreived nation for Dom 3 in some patch so I was kind of demoralized by it.

But if I get someone to help with graphics I'll restart the project.

I even have though up of full names for Sar Elad in all eras...
Sar Elad - Era of Miracles
Sar Elad - The Wise Kingdom
Sar Elad - Cabals and Trade

Oh, and I think that Nephilim would make a fine adversary for early "Sar Elad" as we decided to call it. However your suggestion appears to be quite similiar to Sauromatia which has dark sorceries and lizards. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Agrajag]

Well, I really like how we made Sar Elad, and would therefore like to see it regardless of an Illwinter-made nation on the same theme.
Unfortunately, I'm pretty much useless as far as drawing goes :\
If you saw my Umbarthium mod, you should have a rough estimate of my capabilities http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif
EDIT: Attached a .rar archive of my mod, just in case you missed the horror and would like to see it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif (At least most graphics are quite horrible)

[Nerfix]

Well then, coding it together propably isn't hard. =) It's graphics. =(

Hmm, Sar Elad might need some up-powering for early era though. Like Awe (0) for some sacred unit, Chariots (more of a Solomon thing though, since I remember the old testament saying that Solomon had a lot of them. Not sure though. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif ) or a pick or two more for the mages.

Not sure, maybe. I'll have to see how things play in game. =)

[Endoperez]

Early Era
This is pre-Abrahmic Canaan. It should be pointed out that archeological evidence for a Hebrew displacement of pre-Hebrew Canaanites is non-existent.
You have standard primitive infantry but no cavalry.
Your charioteers are all Nephilim or Anakim, who are giants - they're sacred, a size level up from people, and have awe. Nephilim princes are priests who have nature, blood and fire. Since you're from the same part of the world (very roughly) as pythium, perhaps your chariots should be pulled by lizards instead of horses.
You can also recruit Witches - who are brides to the Nephilim. They're cheap and have random sorcery.
You get a better deal on summoning fallen angels (nation specific blood spells), and your fallen angels are sacred with a better mix of magic.



Standard primitive infantry - what equipment? We could use indy LI graphics if they use spears, or swords. They have some kind of metal armor, right?
C'tis has Lizard Chariots pulled by those things Jade Amazons have, Sauromatia is near Ermor and C'tis and is actually ON the Swamps of Pythia, and Sauromatia has both Lizards Pythium will use Jade Amazons riding their lizard mounts. What equipment would these have? How good would they be?
You wrote "Nephilim or Anakim" - are there two names or two types of giants?
What equipment would Nephilim Princes have? The same with Witches.

What randoms, exactly, do you want them to have?
Witches can have Sorcery random. Or FNB random. Or FSNB or FDNB or FSDNB random. Or multiple randoms with different chances. One example:

100%NB
100%SDNB
50%SDNB

Always one sorcery, always either Nature or Blood in addition to that, often one more sorcery pick. Witches should be able to hunt Blood Slaves if you want Nephilim Princes to be able to use Blood. They can also be made to be able to Blood Sacrifice (like Abysia or Vanheim).

You can mod up to 5 normal heroes, and up to 2 types of heroes that keep coming and coming.

You can define starting site, name it, define path and level, make certain that it ISN'T used as a random site (but also make it available as one), choose gem production (6 for typical EA nation), and choose capital-only units and/or commanders.

Post more info here, and I can check if I can find fitting sprites. If I do, #copyspr copies that to a new unit.

There are no empty summoning slots, but as an Early Age nation this could "borrow" some Late Age spells. Ashen Empire has lots of them, for instance. What kind of names are you after? It isn't yet possible to change names or descriptions of spells. Also, it seems that it isn't yet possible to set national spells as researchable, only as "available from the start" like in DomII.

[DominionsFan]

Endoperez said:
Also, it seems that it isn't yet possible to set national spells as researchable, only as "available from the start" like in DomII.



Um, I thought that we can set national summons for various paths and levels. So basically all national summons will be available from start? Example if we want to add low level summons for the Lizardmen race like draconian troops, and high level summons like dragons, all of them will be available from start?

*Edit*
Nevermind, I've seen your reply in the modders wishlist. Hopefully this will be possible also when the game will be patched. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

[Endoperez]

DominionsFan said:

Endoperez said:
Also, it seems that it isn't yet possible to set national spells as researchable, only as "available from the start" like in DomII.



Um, I thought that we can set national summons for various paths and levels. So basically all national summons will be available from start? Example if we want to add low level summons for the Lizardmen race like draconian troops, and high level summons like dragons, all of them will be available from start?



There aren't that many new modding commands. The old way of setting a spell as a national one makes uses #research to set the spell as a national spell and #school to choose the nation. I didn't notice any new commands. There are researchable national spells, so it is now possible for such a command to exist, or be added if it doesn't yet exist.

[Agrajag]

Regarding Nephilim VS. Anakim you can just search wikipedia for Nephilim (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nephilim)
I could share what I learned about them in school, but frankly, its not very interesting and doesn't contribute much to how Anakim/Nephilim could be put into a mod.
However, I can express my opinion that I'd rather not see Nephilim or Anakim in Sar Elad, I don't really think they fit well, especially since as an Early Era nation, they shouldn't really have very strong units but rather focus more on commanders. An furthermore, just by reading the entry on wikipedia we can see that both anakim and nephilim would not be welcome in Sar Elad (I have further reasons, but again they are really boring)

EDIT: Link fixed, thanks Endoperez.
It was just that I forgot to add HTTP://, so it automatically adds the shrapnel thingey at the begining.

[Endoperez]

Agrajag, that link doesn't work. Edit the link in the [ url ] tag to remove the www.shrapnelcommunity.com (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com) etc from it. Now it tried to link to a post number "en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nephilim" in he forums. It doesn't work. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Endoperez]

Nephilim are interesting (from Wikipedia article I found Og, who is a perfect hero, and lots of interesting things in all), but it doesn't tell of the types of units that should be available. I'll check the other mod and look through units fitting that; I think these two could be connected rival nations and share many of the common units, like Pythium and Ermor.

[DrPraetorious]

Well, I was thinking that it would be like several other civs in Dom 3 - the "Early Era" version is displaced by the Middle Era version. It works as distinct civilizations, as well.

Several early era nations have fairly powerful sacred units - Jotunheim being the most obvious example.

I'll be using the KJV names for things since I doubt most people discussing this have any Hebrew.

But, if we want two civs, we'd have -
Early Era -
Sar Elad, Age of the Judges (everybody gets Miracles so I think Judges is better.)
vs.
Nephilim

Middle Era
Sar Elad, Age of the Kings
vs.
Carthanacia, Empire of the Waves (a combination of Anakim, Phoenicia, and Carthage)

Late Era
Sar Elad, Age of the Diaspora
vs.
Carthanacia, The Salt Curse (I just made this up.) - but really you're fighting Marignon.

So, here's a draft on the specifics. I don't expect it to be game balanced, and the second era of sar-elad needs work.

Unit profiles -

Stats are 10 unless otherwise noted.

The sar-alad base profile is Mor 13, Att 11, MR 12. Giant slayers are +2 Mor, +2 Def, +4 Pre. Other elites are +1 Mor, +1 Att, +1 Str. Excellent base profiles are a selling point of this nation.

Most Carthacians have the base profile. Carthanacian elites have +2 Mor, +1 Att, +1 Str, +2 Def. Archers are -2 Mor, -1 Att, +1 Pre.

Nephilim are +2 size (and do not go up a size if mounted on a chariot, but still get other bonuses). Nephilim troops have 30 HP, a Base Protection of 5, Mor 13, MR 12 and Str 20 (this is the basic jotun profile.) Nephilim characters have 35 HP, Mor 14, MR 13 and Str 22 (elite jotun profile.) Nephilim are all immune to fire.

Anakim are +1 size. They have 20 HP, a Base Protection of 3, Mor 12, MR 11 and Str 15. As I recall, this is the basic Aesir profile from Dom 2, but I don't have units.xls handy. Anakim elites/characters have 25 HP, Mor 13, MR 12 and Str 18. Anakim are 50% fire resistant.

Salt people are -2 to all stats (additive with elite or archer profiles), but fearless. When recruited, they

Sar-alad (early era), gets -
The Torah (that's the first five books of what you rightous goy would call the Old Testament), and the early prophets (through Samuel.)
light infantry - spear, javelin, leather cuirass, shield, leather cap
medium infantry - spear, ring mail cuirass, shield, iron cap
(serpent?) chariots - elite profile. rides a chariot, has ring mail cuirass, shield, iron cap, spear and short bow.
giant slayers, who are sacred, and have magical slings (we'd need to add them as a new weapon,) leather cuirass, leather cap, dagger. Capital only.
destroyers, who are sacred, elite profile, wear ring hauberks, iron caps, carry two handed axes, and have a siege bonus.

The Maker of Offerings is FSH.
The Keeper of the Teachings is SSHH, with 100% chance of {SFAN}, and a 50% chance of {SFAN}.
The Judge is bigger than you. He's got HHHH (yes, four), SNF, with a 100% chance of {SFNx2}, a 100% chance of {SFANWH}, and a 25% chance of {SFANH}. He's a priest 4-6, with 5-7 magic levels. If you make him a prophet, he gains WW in addition to H, and gains the "sailing" ability (get it?). The Judge also has a large leadership for a spellcaster. Capital only.
You also get a Hero, who has the same sling as a giantslayer, is sacred but not a Priest, has a standard and is an elite+slinger. Capital only.
And you get a doofus commander, who is only 20 gold but oterwise identical to the ones you buy from independents.

(Nephilim)
light infantry and medium infantry armed as sar-alad.

archers with leather hauberks and shortbows (archer profile.)
Nephilim are giants. There is evidence that, folklorically speaking, the Nephilim and/or Anakim are related to norse fire giants (by way of a common Sumerian origin), so hey, they're from Muspleheim too. They are armed with Jotun Spears, Javelins, Bronze Hauberk, Bronze Helm, Shield. They're sacred.
You get commanders - elite profile, armed as nephilim but with regular spears.
You get witches, who are sacred and have a 100% chance of {NB}, a 25% chance of {B}, and a 25% chance of {WEN}.
Witch mothers are BB, with two 100% chances of {WEN} and a 10% chance of {WEN}. They're cheap for what you get, and sacred.

The royal guard are nephilim on chariots. Substitute a Jotun Bow for the Javelin. Capital only, Sacred.
Nephilim princes are HH, BBBN, with three 100% chances of {EFNB}. They have the giant hero statline, and ride chariots (armed as above). Capital only, Sacred.


(Sar-elad, middle period)

This period needs work.

This is the period from Solomon (1 Kings 3 through and on) through the Diaspora.

Retain the giant-slayers and heroes, lose the destroyers. Lose the judges, keep the lesser spellcasters.

Your infantry gets more modern equipment - Iron Caps, Ring Mail Cuirass (Light) and Chain Mail Hauberk (Medium.)

Hammers have the elite profile, carry Long Sword, Kite Shield, Full Ring Mail, Half Helmet, are mounted (presumably on giant lizards), stealthy (at +5) with wasteland and mountain survival.

The Hammer commander gets the elite bonuses twice, same equipment and special abilities. He's HH.

(Carthanacia, Middle)

The blood of the nephilim runs thin, but you claim to be the true descendents of the high culture of Arcoscephale. You are extra decadent but very learned.

Your get peltasts and cardaces just like Arcoscephale. In addition, you have crossbowmen, but they wear leather armor (archer profile.)

You lose all the nephilim, you get anakim instead.

Anakim are still sacred. Anakim wear full chain mail, half helms, carry shields and jotun swords.

Anakim princes are capital only, and also get BBHH, and two 100% chances of {FWSB}.

You retain witches, but they trade earth for astral, and the witch queen loses one of the 100% picks. Your witches now all have bonuses to research, sieges and castle defense, thanks to their acquisition of arcoscephalian learning.

(sar-elad, late age)
Rabbis, kabalists, no sacred troops except the hammers, which are now capital only. I'll edit this one in later if people want it.

(Carthanacia, late age)
Carthanacia has been cursed by Ermor, salt has been tilled into the soil and the people turned sub-human.

Their land is brackish and they are born stunted and mutated, covered with blisters with wrinkly, damp, grey skin. They are sickly and weak, and broken in the mind, making them effectiveless mindless (and fearless). On the plus side, provinces under your control are immune to the various nasty dominions (Ermor, R'lyeh).

The blood of the nephilim is washed out entirely, but your witches still remember some of the magic they were taught.

[Endoperez]

The Judge is bigger than you. He's got HHHH (yes, four), SNF, with a 100% chance of {SFNx2}, a 100% chance of {SFANWH}, and a 25% chance of {SFANH}. He's a priest 4-6, with 5-7 magic levels. If you make him a prophet, he gains WW in addition to H, and gains the "sailing" ability (get it?). The Judge also has a large leadership for a spellcaster. Capital only.



This should be hero, or be toned down.

Holy 4 is equivalent to old Holy 5. The only instances of Holy 5 in DomII were Bartholomeus the Patriarch and maybe few other heroes. Access to holy 5, and perhaps something like 10% chance of Holy 6 or more, is just absurd. No one would make them a prophet, since the scaling priest spells are few in numbers.



If it is towned town, I might be able to pull of the Propheted -> Water bonus thing. I'd have to #copystats something that has a different form as a prophet. One would become the Sar-Alad Judge. The copied unit would be cleared and remade. The second form it would turn into would be cleared and remade as another form, and would get sailing. I think I can also add Water, but I'd have to test it.

If the Nephilim are basically Fire-based Jotun, I think we already have few fitting graphics. Jotun Jarls and Herses get gilded equipment when propheted, so there we have "bronze armor". Both wield Jotun Sword, no less. Asmegs, the descendants of Aesir, could also be used. They are ugly, but I quess they would work.

Currently, there is no Jotun Bow. If we're going to have to make another ranged weapon, would it be a bow or a sling? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif I like slings. I've wanted to make a Jotun Sling for a long time.


I might be able to pull off a sling that deals more damage to giants. Shortsword, the one the special Hoburg Overfuhrer wields, deals double or triple damage to giants. If I change it to a ranged weapon, the ability should stay unchanged. I don't think big O himself would mind if he had a sling instead of a sword.


EDIT: Damn, almost forgot. You are giving them WAY too easy access to magic. EA is often limited in the types of magic they can get. EA Atlatis has Fire, Earth and Water, and not much else. Niefelheim can get up to Water 4, Death 3, Blood 3, Air 1 with normal randoms, and Astral 2, Nature 3 if both of Gygjas 100% randoms happen to raise the same path. No access to Earth or Fire at all, only one in three Niefel Jarls can get Air 1, and Astral 2 and Nature 3 are uncommon, and the mages cost 250 gp a pop, or 500 for a Niefel Jarl. They can't just recruit them until they get lucky.

Tien Chi can get any element, Nature and Astral up to 2 with 100% randoms of capital-only units. They can also get Water 3 and Death 1 on a Celestial Master.

You want to give these guys access to S3, F3, N3 with a two additional chances of raising one of these or one of the other paths (including Water and Air, so at least 1 in either is common).
BBBN with 3x100%FEBN would give them access to at least E2 and B5 pretty often. F2 and N3 aren't a big deal because Judges are so overpowered.
Witch Mothers are very good too, and often get E2 or W2.


They'd have very powerful mages of Blood, Fire, Astral and Nature; good mages of Earth and Water, easy access to Air 1 and would occassionally get Air 2. They could also recruit Holy 5 priests who might get randoms up to Holy 7. They lack only Death. They are too good.

[Endoperez]

Gilded Jarl: 375
BTW, he wields a Great sword (1 more att and def). That's probably a bug.

Another gilded Jarl: 436


Dwarven smith (323) becomes different when propheted (324). Darkvision 50 and Mountain Survival, but I think I can remove the Darkvision. Mountain Survival could fit the nation. I think that'll do. The gilded jarls aren't needed as porphets then, and can be used for graphics.

The male Spentas:
1375, 1376, 1377 have robes, wings and shepherds' staves. If the wings are taken out, they should fit. as Judges or something.

[Endoperez]

Here are the first two pictures. A Jarl with gilded equipment and a Lizard Chariot without the C'tissian rider. Using a black map, taking screenshots of Dom3 graphics is much easier than from Dom2.

However, the lizard chariot is too small for a Nephilim.

EDIT: forgot attachment.

[Agrajag]

I don't want to be a jerk, but DrPraetorious, your vision for Sar Elad kind of seems to clash with the concept of Sar Elad as was formed in the earlier thread "Byblical Mod Discussion".
You are suggesting that even EA Sar Elad will be very powerful in unit power, and use different and better weapons (even Iron weapons!), then what we originally came up with.
I just don't think both concepts can merge well into one mod, and would personally rather see the mods split.


Then again, most of the work required for the mod is drawing new graphics, which is not something I am capable of*, so as far as actually making the mod, I have no control on it, so the decision isn't mine to make.

*-Well, I could probably photoshop some new units from existing units**, if I had access to some sprites to edit.
Though that still wouldn't be as good as brand new units.

**-You know what I mean, change the color on that shield, give that unit this spear instead of a sword and leather armor instead of the platemail, etc.

[Nerfix]

Well, DrPraetories can make his own mod and we can make our own. =) I am sure that a man and a Hybrid can coexist peacefuly and make their own biblical mods. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[DrPraetorious]

For some reason I was unable to find the earlier thread, even though I saw mention of it in another discussion.

You are correct that the early period (whatever) should probably have bronze instead of iron - I was giving them the equipment off of independents rather than other nationals, which was a mistake.

[Agrajag]

DrPraetorious said:
For some reason I was unable to find the earlier thread, even though I saw mention of it in another discussion.


Nerfix linked to it in the second post in this thread: http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=dom2scen&Number=427907&pag e=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1
Unless you mean that you failed to find the thread that spawned that thread...
Either way, Nerfix is right (especially since he says what I said http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif)

[DrPraetorious]

Anyway, let us indeed fork. Endoperez is 100% correct about those units being too big.

So, I'm thinking there aren't really enough Hebrews for three eras, so lets try this. Hykosia comes from "Hyksos", who are not Hebrews but some people seem to think they are. These are revised magic picks, I'll try revising and expanding the unit profiles as soon as I get excel reinstalled.
* -> Capital Only

(early)
Hykosia, Reign of the Nephilim (compare to - Niefelheim)
*Nephilim Prince: HHBB, 100% {FANx2}, 50% {FABN}
Witch: 100% {BN}, 10% {FABN}, sacred
*Witch Mother: HBN, 100% {FABN}, 10% {FABN}

(mid)
Carthacia, ??? (compare to - Abyssia)
*Anakim Prince: HHBB, 100% {ASx2}, 100% {FASB}
Witch: 50% {B}, 50% {FAS}, research bonus, sacred
*Witch Mother: HBS, 50% {FASB}, research bonus, siege/castle
Hykosia, Reign of the Judges (compare to - Shinuyama)
*Judge: HHHFA, 100%{NFAx2}, 100% {NSW}, 10% {NFASW}
Keeper of the Scrolls: HHFA, 50% {NF}, 50% {NA}, 25%{SW}, 10% {NFASW}
Cohen: HA, 10%{NFS}

(late)
Carthacia, Fields of Salt
Witch: 50% {B}, 50% {DAN}
*Witch Mother: HHBN, 100% {DANB}
Hykosia, Reign of the Kings
*Gaon: HHS, 100%{SFAWENx2}
Kabalist: S, 100%{FAWEN}, Sacred
Posek: HH, 10%{FAWEN}
Canter: H, Communion Slave

How about these for magic picks:

[FrankTrollman]

It is much easier to rip picts from other sources and then photoshop them into the appropriate sizes/formats than it is to draw your own in tiny pixel-art format.

For example, I've attached a pic of a philistine spearman that was public domain off some bible study site. A few minutes to resize him to 64x64 pixels and black out all the adjoining background and you've got something that looks way better than a lego-mage-knight. Might be too tall, I haven't gotten my copy yet. But if so, it's just a matter of giving it some more vertical clearance when you crop it and then resize with some more blank space above.

---

Anyway, the Canaanites kicked Hebrew *** for generations, so the early era should be mostly focused on the dominant military force of the region: Philistines. The human troops should have Aurochs, Slingers, Chariots, and Spearmen to go with their giants.

Available pretenders should be:

Monolith
Oracle
Fountain of Blood
Wyrm
Virtue
Titan
Moloch
Living Fetish
Dagon
Mother of Serpents
Prince of Death
Lich
Ghost King
Blue Dragon
Red Dragon
Green Dragon
Frost Father
Master Druid
Great Enchantress
Great Sage
Archmage
Crone

I'm probably missing some of the new ones of course.

-Frank

[Endoperez]

DrPraetorious said:
Anyway, let us indeed fork. Endoperez is 100% correct about those units being too big.

So, I'm thinking there aren't really enough Hebrews for three eras, so lets try this. Hykosia comes from "Hyksos", who are not Hebrews but some people seem to think they are. These are revised magic picks, I'll try revising and expanding the unit profiles as soon as I get excel reinstalled.
* -> Capital Only

(early)
Hykosia, Reign of the Nephilim (compare to - Niefelheim)
*Nephilim Prince: HHBB, 100% {FANx2}, 50% {FABN}
Witch: 100% {BN}, 10% {FABN}, sacred
*Witch Mother: HBN, 100% {FABN}, 10% {FABN}

(mid)
Carthacia, ??? (compare to - Abyssia)
*Anakim Prince: HHBB, 100% {ASx2}, 100% {FASB}
Witch: 50% {B}, 50% {FAS}, research bonus, sacred
*Witch Mother: HBS, 50% {FASB}, research bonus, siege/castle
Hykosia, Reign of the Judges (compare to - Shinuyama)
*Judge: HHHFA, 100%{NFAx2}, 100% {NSW}, 10% {NFASW}
Keeper of the Scrolls: HHFA, 50% {NF}, 50% {NA}, 25%{SW}, 10% {NFASW}
Cohen: HA, 10%{NFS}

(late)
Carthacia, Fields of Salt
Witch: 50% {B}, 50% {DAN}
*Witch Mother: HHBN, 100% {DANB}
Hykosia, Reign of the Kings
*Gaon: HHS, 100%{SFAWENx2}
Kabalist: S, 100%{FAWEN}, Sacred
Posek: HH, 10%{FAWEN}
Canter: H, Communion Slave

How about these for magic picks:



This is much better. I'd suggest one more change, though:

instead of 100%(SFAWENx2), which I presume is a 100% chance for a linked random, you could have 2x 100%SFAWEN, or 100% SFA and 100% WEN, etc. EA Tien Chi, as an example, has one 100% and 10% random for AWSN, and another 100% random for FED or something like that.

EA Hykosia, the new Reign of the Nephilim, could use a better non-capital priest or mage. Perhaps a Nephilim commander, similar to Jotun Jarl or Jotun Gode? That'd work for a priest. Perhaps a small chance for magic, too. Actually, a 10%(FABNx2) would be interesting, as they'd still sometimes be decent mages, but would usually be only usable as thugs. I don't know enough about Nephilim to know if that fits, but at least the priest thing is important for balance if they are supposed to be similar to Niefelheim.
Hykosia, Reign of the Judges is magically very powerful. I think that it would currently fit better as EA. It's hard to say for sure yet, though.

Also, randoms are a bit more rare in Dominions 3 than they used to be in DomII. As an example, Arcoscephale Mystics have:
S1, 100% FWES, 50%F, 50%W, 50%E randoms. They can get level 2 in any of the four paths, or 1 in all, but 3 in none.
If you want to keep Judges in MA, test the nations in the demo a bit, then tone the randoms down.

LA Man, Towers of Chelms, is also an interesting nation. They have Judges, law-speakers and investigators for 50 gp. They can lead 40 units, have patrol bonus 20, and have 50%F and 50%D randoms to help them collect information from those living or death. Similarly, they have spies with siege and castle defense bonus and enough chances in randoms that they are usually mages; Magisters of Theology who might've taken up some magic in their studies, etc. If you are interested, I can post details of more varied randoms. You're doing great job already, though. I especially like the Nephilim Prince randoms.

[DrPraetorious]

Well, consider machaka - machaka has an easy time getting 3F, 3N, 3E and 2D, and it's a middle period nation.

How's this - we have early period Hykosia and *late* period Hykosia, with no middle period at all - what I have as early period Hykosia gets renamed Carthacia. The back story is that Hykosia is still under the thumb of Ermor in the middle era, but is liberated in the late Era.

I actually think the Judge is a little weak for an early period spellcaster - most early period nations have a shot at several threes and one or two fours (I have a game of Nifelheim open in the other window - it gets pretty crazy really fast.)