Draconian Race - Brainstorming

[Thilock_Dominus]

http://www.imageviper.com/displayimage/56932/0/Dracasia.jpg
Well the banner is made (done a long time ago http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif )

Some ideas for the Draconian Race I have. I'm open for suggestions.

Both pros and cons


Pros

Flying units
Natural armor (like ctis set to 5)
leaders/commanders/and other in same category can have breath (like the spell fire bolt)
Strong units



Cons:

No cavelry units
No bow/slingers/crossbow
Coldblooded
Fragile to cold magic/spell/effects
medicore priests
Low birth rates
Leaders/commanders can't wear boots and helmets


Both pros/cons/other:

Magic paths - Fire and air
Can recruit dragons only at your home base - expensive to buy and maintain cuz dragons likes treasures http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif
Natural enviroment +1 heat (maybe +2 ??)

[Endoperez]

I'd suggest modeling them after Jotunheim or EA Agartha instead of C'tis.

Jotunheim units are bigger, have natural prot 5 (rarely 6), expensive mages, Gode are decent priests but expensive, no archers but Javelins are surprisingly effective with their strength (Dam: 23, range: 20, Prec total: 8, ammunition 2).

Also: good provincial defense.
Also: one national immunity.

And the more interesting comparison:

EA Agartha has low protection, but otherwise they also fit. Race of amphibious, cold-blooded creatures, with the whole range from 10 gp size-2 creatures to sacred 40+ gp units. Powerful and varied racial special abilities and curiosities: low precision, full Darkvision, higher magic resistance, siege bonus AND no need to eat! and beasts as recruitable units (Troglodytes available at all forts).

Very expensive (400 gp) specialized mages (E3H3 with either W1, F1 or D1; always with one of E4, W2, F2 or D2 via randoms but no WF, FD or WD combinations) centered on the capital, only weak priest-mages available elsewhere (E1, H1, 100?FWED).

They prefer heat, I don't remember how much.


Dragons will fit in just right for Early Age.

[Agrajag]

You could make them quite strong, even give them 10+ protection, but in return make them go mostly unequipped ("Why should I use that little shard of metal, I have my shark claws! Why should I use that leather costume, I have my sleek scales to protect me! etc.").
If you make all/most of their abilities innate, and make them go unequipped you could still have a lot of variety, without making them too strong.

Just as an example you could have a clan of black dragon warriors, who specialize in melee combat and thus have stronger scales (more protection and defense) and better combat skills (more attack/strength) but have no fire breath, compared to a tribe of green dragon fire breathers, which excel in long range attacks using their fire breathing, etc.

Just my 2 Agorot.

[FrankTrollman]

I'd consider giving them no Armor slot rather than no boot slot. They have feet, but their serpent bodies are all winged, making it hard to wear shirts.

That could be a major balancing factor for the nation. Base protections of 10 is good, but a lack of armor would make the high end less impressive. The "heavy infantry" would have tower shields and bracers of protection (+6 protection, for a total protection of 13). The extra Defense would be nice though.

-Frank

[Endoperez]

Frank - shirts. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Other than that, it's a good idea. There are already few body armors that aren't actually armors, like Skull Necklace of the Deva pretender. It is replaced by armor, but doesn't require armor to be present AFAIK. So making magical bracers or whatever would be possible. And while the infantry could be good, the commanders couldn't be decked up to insanity.

[FrankTrollman]

Fixed. Can you believe spell-checking didn't catch that. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

BTW, do demons of the celestial rivers still have those skull necklaces?

-Frank

[Endoperez]

FrankTrollman said:
Fixed. Can you believe spell-checking didn't catch that. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

BTW, do demons of the celestial rivers still have those skull necklaces?

-Frank



Probably, but I was thinking of Deva, a new pretender.

[Boron]

Magic paths - Fire and air
Can recruit dragons only at your home base - expensive to buy and maintain cuz dragons likes treasures
Natural enviroment +1 heat (maybe +2 ??)



I would suggest to make them heat 2.
Heat 3 is too much, but heat 2 would i think be perfect for cold blooded beings http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

Magic Paths can be more flexible:
Air, fire, earth, water, nature, and death magic all sound like reasonable dragon magics.

I would give every dragon only 1 type of magic though.
So the nature dragon e.g. has 3-4 nature magic etc..

Suggested commanders:

Storm dragon, capitol only, Air 4 or Air 5 magic, flying during storm, shock immunity.
Price: At least 1000 gold.

Earth dragon, capitol only, Earth 3-5, cannot fly, could be more hydralike, so multiple heads, good protection.
Price: 1000+ gold too.

Fire dragon, capitol only, Fire 3-5, flying, strong firebreath attack, maybe heat aura, fire immunity.
Price: 1000+ gold.

Nature dragon, capitol only, not flying, regeneration, poison immunity. Like the siegfried saga "wurm".
Also decent protection. Nature 3-5.
Price: Also at least 1000 gold.

Frost dragon, capitol only, flying, cold immune, the only NOT cold blooded dragon, water 3-5, frost breath attack.
Price: Also at least 1000 gold.

Those would be the dragons, they would cost 1000-2500 gold.

I dunno how much spell modding illwinter is going to add, but for national summons you would then summon unique ancient dragon royality if illwinter adds that flexible spell modding in a patch http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

Non-capitol only commanders would then be lizard or draconian commanders, and the troops would be lizards, draconians, and young dragons without magic.

Other national summons that would imho be nice:
-Hydras
-Wyvern
-Drakes (are like wyvern, quite strong dragonlike looking creatures, but smaller as dragons, and more like animals. So in the 20-100 hp range, and animals, i.e. they are simply animals of prey but not intelligent beings like dragons. They are servants of the dragons instead http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif ).
-Skeletal Dragons/Dragonliches/Bone Dragons, one of them at least should be a commander with death magic.
The Dragonliches could be made unique and would then be powerful immortal Dragonliches with deathmagic.
They should cost then 150+ death gems and require Death 8+ to summon.

Also if you manage to get blood (probably only via wish) some creative blood dragons would be cool. Or maybe gigantic lizard demons http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

[Thilock_Dominus]

Thanks for the input so far http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

What about this:
Early age: Draconians and Dragons are only present in full glory.

Middle age age: Draconians are still there, but the dragons are dying/instinct/becomming rare race. The introduction of human servants/worshippers/slaves.

Late age: No dragons (besides the pretender if you choose a dragon as prender that is). Only a few Draconians left. The humans build a cult about the Dragons and Draconians (like Dragon Knights and something like that style). The introduction of earth magic path and a mechanic steam dragon build by humans.


I think that would fit nicely into Dom3 world if you see how the other nations evolve.

[Nerfix]

What about half-draconians? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[FrankTrollman]

Nerfix said:
What about half-draconians? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif



What about I just slit my wrists right now and get it over with?

Why do something simple like have the Draconians gradually cede their lands to humans when you could go one step more crazy and have the draconians gradually cede control of their lands to goblins or something instead?

The dragon knights could be goblins wearing the scales of their long departed draconic masters. In the meantime you could have goblins riding increasingly small and stupid dragons until the late era they've got a goblin on a wyvern as a scout.

Enclosed is an example unit pic of what that might look like.

-Frank

[Endoperez]

I've got an idea for one nation, with somewhat-draconic theme.

The whole nation is based around Wyvern Knights. Is that fine? If not, it's pretty basic strength-based ranged weapons (perhaps modded) and Earth for Strength of Giants/few blood hunters for possible Blood bless.

[paradoxharbinger]

frank i like the cut of your gib

[Thilock_Dominus]

Just wanna say that I've slowly started the Draconian nation mod.

[Thilock_Dominus]

Here's a test sprite how the may look like:

http://www.imageviper.com/displayimage/57692/0/test2.png

Done by adding/modify existing unit pieces and a bit of recolouring.

[Nerfix]

Looks cool!

[Endoperez]

It fits the game, and will probably look awesome in the game. However, isn't he a bit too well-armoured? And on the other hand, it seems this guy at least isn't wearing a helmet. Are you doing a nation of size 3/4 guys where head-shots are the weak point, encouraging longer weapons? If so, that's very cool!

[Thilock_Dominus]

As I said, it was just a test sprite I pulled together within 10min http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Draconian can't wear helmets (and boots), so it's a weak spot. I'm not sure yet if they should wear body armour or not versus stats.