OT: Season 3 BSG

[GuyOfDoom]

Sadly yes, but it really really really should have ended after Anubis. And Atlantis should have never been made.

[Renegade 13]

Bah, I think SG-1 was/is still a hell of a lot better than most of the trash found on TV today http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

As for Atlantis...I think I agree with you there, it's mediocre at best.

[Makinus]

BSG needs more battles, make some crazy Viper x Rider dogfights with one or two baseships thrown in and i´ll be happy...

[Azselendor]

Atlantis lost me as a member of the audience once I saw the red/yellow/blue uniform color coding they use.

I also think SG1 hung around too long, btw. MGM only intended it for 5 seasons, but when scifi offered to pickup the bill and pay a hefty royalty, who was MGM to refuse?


hopping back a bit,
RDM has said in a few interviews that he's felt extremely strained writing more than 3 episodes in a row, and often points to the bad filler episodes as evidence of that. I think he said he wrote the first five episodes this season back to back and burned out on it. He gave kudos to JMS for his ability to write that whole season of b5 on his own.

Now tv guide had an interview with Eick, talking about the future of the show, the movie, and caprica. He said the movie is an almost certainty, and it's pickup will most likely green-light caprica as well. and as for bsg, he feels 13 episodes is best -- but scifi may give them 7 more to wrap up storylines.

[Atrocities]

They should encounter a vortex that allows them to jump back in time to hours just before the cylon attack. To Pycon base or something. Where they manage to steel one or more supply ships, constructions ships, and even a couple light cruisers or somethings. Hell even a carrier would be great. They then use the vortex to jump to just after the attack and they save hundreds of civilian ships and even evacuate a few planets. Then they hit the cylons hard, they take out the cyclon home world thus leaving the cylons with only the few resurrection ships they have and whatever basestars they might have deployed. When they find Earth, have it complete baron of life say for one man. They find in sitting at a desk in a buried building attending to a computer that he must enter a clock reset code into every 11 hours. If he fails, the universe ends. His name is Dr. Loren Darma.

[AgentZero]

Ok, that last bit was just weird, but seriously, a vortex? The biggest thing BSG has going for it is the lack of such Star Trek-style silliness.
For a proper ending, something along the lines of, they finally find Earth and Earth happens to have a big *** fleet which promptly wipes out the whole lot of them. Why? Because they're Cylons. That'd work for me.

[Atrocities]

What does a vortex have to do with Star Trek? You lost me Zero. A better ending would be they arrive at earth only to find it overrun with cylons and they have just enough time to kiss their asses good bye before they are blown out of the stars once and for all.

Go Cylons!

[Atrocities]

OBTW - When the semi blond Cylon, the one with the death wish that kept killing herself to meet God, finally met one of the final cyclon versions, she apologized and said that She had no idea. Wanna place bets on who that mysterious cylon was?

My money is on Adama. Right man in the right place at the right time. Accused of being a cylon by a cylon, and was specifically targeted by the cylon's after he had Boomer blow up that basestar orbiting Cobolt. Adama had left his wife, something a cylon impostor would do, distance yourself from those who know you best. He was in the area of cylon space running covert missions when a pilot of his was captured. Do you think he would have just left that man behind? He also knew that the first human cylon he encountered was a cylon whereas no one else did. How did he know that? Devinne intuition? No, he is a cylon. There are other examples but I am too tired to list them. Besides I must find my cat and put him out side less I end up with a repeat of last night. I am still picking up the mess.

[Tim_Ward]

What does a vortex have to do with Star Trek?



Suspiciously convieniet space-time phonomena as a plot device are a Star Trek staple. Also, BSG tries to stay vaguely scientifically plausable, and that doesn't include time travel. Sorry http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/yawn.gif


Wanna place bets on who that mysterious cylon was?



Someone we've never heard of before. If it's a known character, it's Baltar. Frankly, though, the device of having one of the cast members turn out to be a Cylon has already been used back in the miniseries, and it'd be strained for them to use it again. To hear some of the fan speculation back before the revalations about the Cylons this season, you'd think the Galactica must've been the most heavily inflitrated Battlestar in the fleet.

And anyway, Adama can't be a cylon has he is older than their entire race. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/yawn.gif


Accused of being a cylon by a cylon, and was specifically targeted by the cylon's after he had Boomer blow up that basestar orbiting Cobolt.



Because he was commader. The Cylon's don't know who the final five are, so they can't have been targeting him for that reason.


Cobolt



Kobol. :p

[Azselendor]

It's Romo Lumpkin, baltar's lawyer. Other cylons that said their back story have always indicated their parents died at a young age and such. Romo did the same thing.

As for an ending, how about no ending. a big showdown with the cylons with an open ending as the fleet jumps away, blindly.

[Atrocities]

And anyway, Adama can't be a cylon has he is older than their entire race.



I made the argument that he had been replaced. The crazy chick cylon specifically apologiesed to someone for all the harm they had caused, that she didn't know he was a cylon. The cylon who is in love with Kara stated that Adama was a cylon. One of his missions PUT him near cylon space. He was the one who came up with the lets Find Earth scenario. It was his battlestar, that survived. He chose not to continue to fight but to run. And it was the boomer cylon who tried to kill him after he ordered her to blow up a basestar full of Boomer's. And don't forget Baltars cylon detector and how he reacted to the testing of people.

[AgentZero]

Atrocities said:
What does a vortex have to do with Star Trek? You lost me Zero.



Vortexes (thus far) in BSG = 0
Vortexes in Star Wars = 0
Vortexes in Firefly = 0
Vortexes in Stargate = 0 (or 1 if you want to be picky)
Vortexes in Star Trek = .... Lots and lots and lots and lots. Also lots of time travel.

[Atrocities]

Ok so we call it something else. I still don't see why your trying to compare it to star trek. Hell Star Trek has something like 400 episodes so ya, they pretty much covered the God damned spectrum of names for time distortions and such. And for the record, what BSG is doing isn't really all that new. And BSG's producer is an ex-star trek writer/producer.

[AgentZero]

Atrocities said:
Ok so we call it something else.


I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with which word you use to describe the phenomena.

I still don't see why your trying to compare it to star trek.


Because these sorts of phenomena are everywhere in Star Trek.

...they pretty much covered the God damned spectrum of names for time distortions and such.


That is what I have the problem with. The whole 'Gee whiz, things didn't work out for us this time, but golly, look there's a swirly thing out in space. Let's all go through it and try again.' And if they only did it once or twice, I wouldn't have really minded but they did it all the time, so much so that to me, such contrivances as little swirly spots that pop up out of nowhere and let you go back to the exact moment required to change an unfavourable outcome have become indelibly linked to Star Trek.

And for the record, what BSG is doing isn't really all that new.


Never said it was.

And BSG's producer is an ex-star trek writer/producer.


Good to see someone learned something from Trek.

[Randallw]

I found a bunch of spoilers on one of the rumour sites I follow about the end of season, you know if perhaps people want to know. It may be true or it might be likely rubbish but it includes who 4 of the other cylon models are.

[Tim_Ward]

Atrocities said:
I made the argument that he had been replaced.



Meh, we've never seen any evidence they've been doing that.


The crazy chick cylon specifically apologiesed to someone for all the harm they had caused, that she didn't know he was a cylon.



Why would she apologise to Adama, if he was a cylon working for them? And if he's not working for them, but working for the Final Five who have a seperate adgenda, why all the speculation about the decisions Adama's made that supposedly help the Cylons?

EDIT: also a nitpick; she didn't apologise for all the harm caused, she just apologised for something without saying what. Now, the most obvious answer, or the answer we're lead to, is "I'm sorry we murdered 20 billion people for some vague religious reasons" indicating that the one she saw the face of someone who was something to do with the colonials (one of the Lords of Kobol?), but it could have been for anything. I could have been "sorry I went through all this fuss and blundered in here".


The cylon who is in love with Kara stated that Adama was a cylon.



<daniel jackson>You don't think it's possible for a Cylon to lie, do you?</daniel jackson>


And don't forget Baltars cylon detector and how he reacted to the testing of people.



He commissioned Baltar's Cylon Detector project in the first place. And it was either he or Roslin that suggested that they both go first.

[Fyron]

Renegade 13 said:
"Heh I think everyone has a grudge against the SciFi channel for one reason or another. (They killed Stargate SG-1, the bastards!)"

Stargate SG-1 ended at season 7. Sci-fi Channel then drug its corpse through the mud for several years. It's not really a "minority opinion."

[TurinTurambar]

Imperator Fyron said:
Sci-fi Channel then drug its corpse through the mud for several years. It's not really a "minority opinion."


*dragged

[Renegade 13]

Imperator Fyron said:
Stargate SG-1 ended at season 7. Sci-fi Channel then drug its corpse through the mud for several years. It's not really a "minority opinion."

*raises hands* It wasn't me who said it was a minority opinion! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

[Atrocities]

Imperator Fyron said:
Renegade 13 said:
"Heh I think everyone has a grudge against the SciFi channel for one reason or another. (They killed Stargate SG-1, the bastards!)"

Stargate SG-1 ended at season 7. Sci-fi Channel then drug its corpse through the mud for several years. It's not really a "minority opinion."



They didn't really drag it that far. I thought the new series was ok. Sure it had 3 of the old cast in it, but all in all, it wasn't that bad of a show. Fargate really did keep my interest. So I liked it.

Different topic.
The other day I put in the old TOS series DVD and watched Balance of Terror. It was just over 51 minutes long. I then watched the remastered version with the new special effects. WOW... loved it! However it was parred down to just over 40 minutes. I noticed that with a lot of shows lately, Enterprise, Fargate, Atlantis and so on, they are all right around the 40 minute mark. You can see the difference that 10 minutes makes in a show. That extra 10 minutes makes a hell of a lot of difference and I would hope that the trend to shorten shows in favor of adding more advertising reverses itself. Just think if BSG was 5 or even 10 minutes longer each episode.

The new remastered TOS episodes are quite good. I watched Dooms Day Machine and was very pleased with how they did the Special Effects. It just sucked that it was shortened by 10 minutes from the original version. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif They cut out a lot of stuff that shouldn't have been removed. And that seems to be the trend now a days. And the bad thing is they don't put it back in even for the DVD collections. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[Renegade 13]

Atrocities said:
Just think if BSG was 5 or even 10 minutes longer each episode.

If they were BSG episodes like the last few, I'd have to gouge my eyes out if they were longer http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Baron Munchausen]

Actually, the trend is for direct product placement so that the entire show becomes a commercial. And yet they aren't dropping the interrupting kind of commercials. Granted, this is a bit hard to do with Scifi shows. Most brands wouldn't fit in the hypothetical "future" depicted. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif But for television in general, that's where it's going.

[Azselendor]

Advertisers are demanding more time for their crap and paying less and less to the networks. The shows are paying the price, as a result, the long-term multi-arc series that were once scoffed have returned in force.

If you look at all the top shows, they all followed a continuing plot arc. 24, Lost (not anymore), Heros, Prision Break, and so on. Even older shows, that was once always episodic, are shifting over to the style. BSG also followed this, where each episode would lead into the next. That's how show producers and writers are answering the reduction from a 51 minute hour, to the 42 minute hour, to the 38 minute hour. Supposedly that will be cut down even more to a 32 minute hour.

The miniseries lead to 33, which in turn lead to the eventual first fuel crisis of the fleet then to kobol. Water lead to the Tom Zarek arc. That's why I maintain Resurrection Ship was where the show dropped a bit in quality, as they began a shift to more episodic format after that point.

I would've loved to see Black Market as a prelude to a big power play by Zarek to take control of the fleet from underneath everyone while trying to take control of the government. for example.

And the food crisis in season 3 could've been played out more. oh well.

[Fyron]

Renegade 13 said:
"*raises hands* It wasn't me who said it was a minority opinion! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif "

It was not my intention to imply that you did.

Mr. Pedant said:
"*dragged"

I don't recall enabling the -pedantic flag on my post-making.

[Renegade 13]

Azselendor said:
...to the 38 minute hour...

And that will be when I stop watching conventional TV, and just download all episodes from the internet http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif Advertisers should pay for the privledge to waste my time, rather than me paying my satellite subscription for them to waste my time. <---A rather awkward way of saying it, but the point should be perceptible.

[Azselendor]

The 38 minute hour is the current standard in TV, only older tv shows can get exemptions - but that's normally only to 41 minutes.

[Will]

Well, the only reason I have a cable subscription is because it was cheaper to get the package cable/phone/internet deal than it was to just get phone and internet separately. I never watched much TV in the first place, and the cable I get has ****ty selection. About the only thing worth turning on the tuner card for is Comedy Central for Daily Show and Colbert Report. I don't get Sci-fi for BSG. The other shows I "watch" all air in other countries, but not in the US.

But the plus side is, never need to watch commercials http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[AgentZero]

This is why I don't bother watching TV anymore. If I download and watch say Heroes & BSG, I'm done 40 minutes before I would have finished watching them on TV. That gives me 40 minutes extra to study, do some cleaning, play some SE, do whatever, but it's 40 minutes of my life that I didn't have to spend watching the uninspired drivel that passes for commercials these days. I mean, the ads aren't even entertaining anymore!

As for product placement, it doesn't really bother me. Replace the Galactica with a giant Pepsi can, and the Colonial uniforms with Nike or Adidas gear, I don't really care, as long as the show is good, I'll watch it. On my computer. Without the extra commercials. Mwah.

[Baron Munchausen]

I stopped watching TV years ago. Don't even own a TV anymore. Babylon 5 was the last thing on TV that I had any interest in. Now, only when I visit someone else who still has a TV do I see any TV programming.

[AngleWyrm]

Azselendor said:
Actually, I would say the series dipped right after Resurrection Ship 1 & 2 but I don't blame RDM directly



Near the end of Season Two, He stood upon his pile of poo, and enacted the tale of "Writers!? We don't need no steenkeen writers!". The ego-intoxicated Jack of All Trades went on to rediscover that, yes Virginia, "Jam Sessions" may have soul, but so does a well executed orchestra.

That was the beginning of the end. Self-Importance made an appearance in the form of Political Statement. We're so big we talk about national stuff--nevermind the tale. Then Tyranny set in, with the threat of firings, and so the Cylons were demoted from the realm of immortals (with genuine sci-fi interest) to just another 'them' that are also afraid to die. Just keeping the troops in line, I'de wager.

Without real material, the bottom-up scene assembly continued as a bluff of sorts. Mysteries began that had no finish. The blonde's adventure beyond the door of death promised to reveal a secret, but no joy. The woman left the show. The Eye of Jupiter was another mystery that didn't have any impact. The imperial social structure of 'born a miner, die a miner' was never resolved.

Baltar's "Am I a Cylon?" preview exhibited poor work in the editing room, and it looked like someone was pushing to make Baltar turn out to be a Cylon after all. Screw the characters. Nevermind that he made a Cylon detecter early in the first season. The Cylon Baltar didn't sell, and so the episode was a wierd cobbled together mishmash of dream scenes and whatnot, with a weak proof of humanity by behavior. The bad edits continue to be displayed in "Special Clips from the Cutting Room Floor" tacked on at the end. Commercial enterprise hard at work.

Ellen Tigh also left the show. And now it seems Kara Thrace has left as well. Rats, fleeing the sinking ship.

[Atrocities]

The whole show really took a nose dive with that whole new caprica bit. We lost something like a year of the show as the producers and writers tried to "re-invent" the series. They also needed to come up with a way to make Baltar a traitor and such. It really was a bad move even if they managed to give us a few cool episodes out of it. Overall though, it tanked the series. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[Tim_Ward]

AngleWyrm said:

Azselendor said:
Actually, I would say the series dipped right after Resurrection Ship 1 & 2 but I don't blame RDM directly



Near the end of Season Two, He stood upon his pile of poo, and enacted the tale of "Writers!? We don't need no steenkeen writers!". The ego-intoxicated Jack of All Trades went on to rediscover that, yes Virginia, "Jam Sessions" may have soul, but so does a well executed orchestra.

That was the beginning of the end. Self-Importance made an appearance in the form of Political Statement. We're so big we talk about national stuff--nevermind the tale. Then Tyranny set in, with the threat of firings, and so the Cylons were demoted from the realm of immortals (with genuine sci-fi interest) to just another 'them' that are also afraid to die. Just keeping the troops in line, I'de wager.

Without real material, the bottom-up scene assembly continued as a bluff of sorts. Mysteries began that had no finish. The blonde's adventure beyond the door of death promised to reveal a secret, but no joy. The woman left the show. The Eye of Jupiter was another mystery that didn't have any impact. The imperial social structure of 'born a miner, die a miner' was never resolved.

Baltar's "Am I a Cylon?" preview exhibited poor work in the editing room, and it looked like someone was pushing to make Baltar turn out to be a Cylon after all. Screw the characters. Nevermind that he made a Cylon detecter early in the first season. The Cylon Baltar didn't sell, and so the episode was a wierd cobbled together mishmash of dream scenes and whatnot, with a weak proof of humanity by behavior. The bad edits continue to be displayed in "Special Clips from the Cutting Room Floor" tacked on at the end. Commercial enterprise hard at work.

Ellen Tigh also left the show. And now it seems Kara Thrace has left as well. Rats, fleeing the sinking ship.



You just made that up.

[Atrocities]

very good read and accurate.

[Randallw]

I didn't think he made a real Cylon detector. He just made something up and then claimed to have developed one to get the suspicion off himself. In the mini-series he just got lucky when he framed a bloke he didn't like much and that guy ended up being a Cylon.

[MasterChiToes]

Long long ago, I decided that everyone from the 12 colonies were Cylons... they are descended from the original Cylons from Kobol who destroyed the real humanity. Hopefully, the old and new Cylons will eventually team up and destroy Earth to make way for a hyperspace bypass.

Adama is the Imperius Leader! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

I miss Iblis and the ancients from the original series... now that had plotz plot potential.

[Atrocities]

Could someone please explain to me what in the hell just happened in the last episode (19)? I cannot figure out what it was I just watched. Tye (sp) thinks the Galatica is a cylon now? Baltar is a religious icon? Lee Adama is a traitor, The president has cancer again and along with that she having visions, Caprica 6 is now a mind reader, and Adama wants Lee thrown in the brig! WTH! The episode made no sense what so ever! It was like watching an alcoholically induced bad dream. Hell I had a hang over after watching it.

[AgentZero]

Sounds like all kinds of madness! My usual torrent site didn't have episode 19 up for some reason, so I'm a little late in getting it, but I'm sure I'll have something insightful to say after I've watched it.

[Atrocities]

I think I should have been stoned or drunk before watching it. I think it would have made more sense then. Hell for Adama to go from "I love you son" to "I won't have an officer who has no integrity serving under me" is a huge leap.

The only thing I can figure out is that perhaps the sounds Tye is hearing might be somehow affecting the crew putting them on edge and pitting them against each other.

[Renegade 13]

From what I understand, Tigh thinks he can hear through the walls of this ship that the cylons have infiltrated this ship, and are hiding behind bulkheads and the like. Remember the noise the cylon ground troops make, kind of a whirring noise? I think that's what he's hearing. As for the president, yep, cancer. Lee's going on his little "I'm resentful of daddy, so I'm gonna stick it to him by defending Baltar", in essence, having himself a little temper tantrum. As for Six, not quite sure how you got the whole mind reading part. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[AngleWyrm]

Tim_Ward said:
You just made that up.



Well yes, sort of. It is my impression of the video blogs, and extra interviews from Sci-Fi Channel's Battlestar Galactica website (http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/) taken together with what is happening in/to the series.


Atrocities said:
very good read and accurate.


Thanks, I had time to edit http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif


Randallw said:
I didn't think he made a real Cylon detector.


Maybe; it wasn't entirely clear that he succeeded. He did spot Boomer as well, and the scene where Six tells him to request a nuke, he has an epiphany of understanding how it could work. So it seems possible that he succeeded. But then they undermined it with talking him out of testing the whole crew just cause it's easier. Also there was some talk of if he was a Cylon then his results could be a program of deception, so the detecter was basically neutered to keep the scare alive.

[Will]

Atrocities said:
Could someone please explain to me what in the hell just happened in the last episode (19)? I cannot figure out what it was I just watched. Tye (sp) thinks the Galatica is a cylon now?


No, Tigh keeps hearing little snatches of music, which very few others around him seem to hear (it appears only Anders and Tori can hear it in this episode). It's driving him crazy, trying to find out where it's coming from. It's affecting Tori to a somewhat lesser extent, and Anders is occasionally distracted by it.


Atrocities said:
Baltar is a religious icon?


Baltar's leaked book and his distinction of living among the Cylons without being killed may have something to do with the religious reverence. While he's hated by many in the fleet, just by speaking out against the power duo of Adama and Roslin, while being in the position of a martyr would gain him favor with a minority.


Atrocities said:
Lee Adama is a traitor, The president has cancer again and along with that she having visions, Caprica 6 is now a mind reader, and Adama wants Lee thrown in the brig!



Lee is trying to escape his father's shadow by becoming his grandfather. He can't move higher in the military now than CAG, as long as his father lives. If he is to achieve anything more in his life, Lee needed to find a way to do it outside of the military. Since he's an idealist (see the episode introducing Tom Zarek), being part of Baltar's defense seems the perfect way for him to affect change and be something other than his father's son.

As for the President, I don't think it's so far-fetched that the cancer has returned. Survivors of cancer are at higher risk to later develop cancer again in the future. The visions would seem to be a side effect of her taking the hallucinatory drugs again.

And Caprica Six, I don't believe has any kind of mind reading abilities. She got a cue from her inner Baltar, and the more she went down that road, the more the reactions of Tigh gave her to say. I think she was talking as much about herself as she was of Tigh, since she believes that Baltar really is good as dead, and she'll soon have a gruesome death to deal with as well (before waking up again).

And I think the threat of throwing Lee and Baltar's lawyer in the brig was more because they were basically forcing his lady-friend to admit something deeply personal in public, again (similar to the first time she admitted she had cancer and was dying, only without the physical bars around her).


Also, if you listen closely to the teaser at the end, you hear Tori say "This isn't happening," and the Chief say "It's true... we're Cylons" as the music that Tigh, Anders, and Tori were hearing plays. Combine that with RDM saying that season 3 would see at least some of the Final Five revealed... well, there's only one episode left...

[Atrocities]

Well I will keep watching. I just cannot turn my eyes away from this.

[Tim_Ward]

Reguarding the headBaltar/Tigh thing, it was probably a combination of a fairly professional bit of cold reading and bits and pieces Caprica Six picked up from the occupation grapevine.

It's definately a good thing that Roslin's cancer returned. The magic-cylon blood miracle cure in season 2 stretched credibility a little too far.


And I think the threat of throwing Lee and Baltar's lawyer in the brig was more because they were basically forcing his lady-friend to admit something deeply personal in public, again (similar to the first time she admitted she had cancer and was dying, only without the physical bars around her).



And in character, too... remember how Adama reacted with the tribunal in season 1 started going somewhere he didn't want it to?

[Azselendor]

the music seemed to contain the cylon hum, and I hope they don't reveal any of them as cylons - but please, no more cylons!

but if you like spoilers, http://www.thetvremote.com/battlestar-galactica-season-finale-spoilers/


and fear for the worst.

[Atrocities]

<font color="red">SPOILER </font>


Lee too is back in uniform and notices a unidentified craft on the DRADIS. When he investigates, he finds Kara in her viper. She says she’s been to Earth and can show them the way.



And we will have to wait a nearly six months to see how this one gets explained away. Didn't someone say something about Star Trek? "He's dead Jim!" ooops wait spoke too soon. "Spock?"

And if you really want to get sick, well read this next bit.


Tigh, Tyrol, Anders and Foster are all independently driven by the Dylan tune to the same launch tube. All four are horrified to come to the conclusion that they’ve all always been Cylons!



So Tigh and Tyrol are cylon's this whole time. Ok ya I buy that. Yup, its completely plausible. Totally didn't see this coming. And here the whole time they have been on board the Galatica, getting drunk, leading the resistance, having Tigh's eye gouged out by other cylons and they never knew he was one of them. Boomer was sleeping with Tyrol, and never ever figured out he was a machine. Oh ya, makes perfect sense to now make him and Tigh out to be cylons. Thats like saying FDR was really a Nazi or something. Hell why not... While we are at it, lets makes Winston Churchill out be one too. This is a writers gage, a bad joke, or worse yet, a ratings ploy in yet another "lets mix it up" plot twisting season ender.

They will do anything for ratings. I don't know whether I should laugh at this or just simply cry at its utter and complete absurdity. I just want to cry.

But after watching the last episode of Stargate SG1, I find myself unable to do so. I think the series ender was a little low tech, too short, and best described as anti-climatic. A lot of work for no pay out. A long wait for a train than never came. Six hours of hard core sex with no climax. A really sexually nasty dream that you wake up from right when its beginning to get good to the sound of a screaming alarm and kids bouncing on your bed demanding breakfast. The kind of dream that all you want to do is kill yourself after waking up from just to find yourself stuck in hell where death is your only escape.

Well at least SG1's series ender was epic compared to that of Enterprise. And at least we have two DVD movies to look forward too unless the plug is pulled on them as well.

[AgentZero]

On the upside, by my count episode 19 was 44min11sec, which is a little under two minutes more than the average 42min20sec. Sure, it's not much, but it's a step in the right direction.

Also, it's more or less established that the majority of Cylons don't seem to know who the final five are, and if they are Galactica crewmembers, that would explain Six's "Oh God, we're so sorry," reaction upon seeing the face(s) of the five.

But I'm of the thinking that the Colonials are all really Cylons, decended from those who wiped out humanity to begin with, so anybody in the fleet discovering that they're a Cylon fits in perfectly with my theory. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Renegade 13]

Personally, I've never understood why all cylons wouldn't know who all the other cylons were. They're machines, it's not like their society was fragmented before the human-form cylons were created. So it follows that they'd know who everyone else was.

[Wade]

http://www.galciv2.com/

This G4: X-Play video review of Galactic Cicilizations II; Dark Avatar has a humorous Battlestar Galactica continuing skit.

The game has gotten near perfect reviews from many major and minor review sites.

[Atrocities]

Ya just think if Aaron had their resources and talent at his disposal, image what he could have done with the SE franchise.

[Renegade 13]

Wade said:
http://www.galciv2.com/

The game has gotten near perfect reviews from many major and minor review sites.

*Gags* http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Azselendor]

Atrocities said:
...Tigh's eye gouged out by other cylons and they never knew he was one of them.





Tigh does have one eye... that about how many most cylon robots have....

[AngleWyrm]

There's only one 'i' in Tigh...

Why are Pirates called Pirates?
They just aaaarrrrrr.

[Fyron]

Wade said:
"The game has gotten near perfect reviews from many major and minor review sites."

Reviews are irrelevant. Plenty of crappy big dev name flash in the pan games get excellent reviews.

[Wade]

Brad Wardel,(Frogboy/ Draginol) the creator of GCII, on the website www.galciv2.com (http://www.galciv2.com) has hoped that Space Empires V and other games of the genre do well because it benefits us all. I agree.

The game is modeled after the Civilization games(Civilization IV in particular). This is partly the reason for its success. Galactic Civilizations II has many new concepts though. Not to mention the even more dangerous AI in the expansion.

While GCII and SEV are two seperate sorts of games in the same genre they're both good games. As well as Civilization IV. I play all three and hope to make time for some others too.

-Wade

[Tim_Ward]

Season 4 is now 22 episodes. (http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/index.php?category=2&amp;id=40676)

[Azselendor]

I'm excited about the movie, we're gonna learn what Cain did in the months between the miniseries and Pegasus meeting galactica.

[Atrocities]

Excellent news. That means that RDM has been able to pull the fish from the fire pit and salvage dinner. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Azselendor]

Not to mention the movie pickup means Caprica might get a pickup.

[MasterChiToes]

Azselendor said:
I'm excited about the movie, we're gonna learn what Cain did in the months between the miniseries and Pegasus meeting galactica.



Are you sure it is after the miniseries? The Pegasus was clearly up to something before the miniseries... between Adama's covert incident violating the Cylon border and the miniseries.

[Caduceus]

Wade said:
This G4: X-Play video review of Galactic Cicilizations II; Dark Avatar has a humorous Battlestar Galactica continuing skit.



I laughed my frackin' head off.

So say we all... Chortle. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/Injured.gif


SciFi Wire said:
Production will begin on the new season in May, with an eye to an early 2008 premiere.




Frack.

[Azselendor]

MasterChiToes said:

Azselendor said:
I'm excited about the movie, we're gonna learn what Cain did in the months between the miniseries and Pegasus meeting galactica.



Are you sure it is after the miniseries? The Pegasus was clearly up to something before the miniseries... between Adama's covert incident violating the Cylon border and the miniseries.



Yep. Basically it's a story setup involving Cain and the Pegasus after the attack at the scorpion shipyards and before pegasus found galactica that will tie into episodes 16 &amp; 19 (maelstrom and Crossroads) of season 3 and have an impact on season 4.

[Azselendor]

Oh, I hate you Ron Moore.

(just watched the finale.)

&gt;:(

[Renegade 13]

Azselendor said:
Oh, I hate you Ron Moore.

(just watched the finale.)

&gt;:(

For which particular reason?

[AngleWyrm]

Ron Moore said (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07085/770732-352.stm)
It's more that they arrived at a certain point in space and they were made aware of who they are. The music manifests a dawning awareness. These are four of the final five, which puts them in a separate category from everybody else. There are reasons for that I can't really get into. We'll be playing out those plot lines for quite a while.



I wonder how they're gonna explain Colonel Saul Tigh fighting in the first war with the original toasters? And the fifth Cylon? Madam President's head rush? The phantom Kara Thrace?

[Atrocities]

i think roselin isnt the only one smoking something after watching this episode.

[Atrocities]

Any one notice that the sets of Galatica bare a strong resemblance to sets used for the DUNE mini-series?

[Atrocities]

Something just occurred to me, there are now TWO cylon human babies. Think about it. Boomers daughter, and the Chiefs son. Why haven't the cylons tried to get his son?

[Atrocities]

R: When did you decide to make these four characters Cylons and how much did you have to go back and check to make sure that fit with things we already knew about these four characters?

RM: It was something I came up with this season as I worked toward the finale. The conceptual framework in which these guys are Cylons, it all sort of works once we laid down their individual back stories.



I don't buy for a minute the sudden and in my honest opinion, sloppy story change that Tigh and the Chief, as well as two others, are now cylons. That is just a fracking cop out and a cheap writing trick. I have to be honest, and many fans agree, that this was nothing more than a cheap plot twist though of without any consideration for thought. This kind of thing seems to be a hallmark of the series. Hey lets go down this road.. whoops, not working, lets do this now.... whoops that didn't work... hey I know, lets make Tigh and the Chief both cylons. Um what about the chiefs son, and Tigh's record? Who cares, the people who watch this show are too stupid to figure things out and think for themselves. Besides its a cool plot twist... write it up and people will accept it with some clever back stories. Ok RDM, we will see.

However as some fans pointed out on other forums, they might not really be cylons. They were all at one time capable of being captured by the cylons therefore they could have simply been brain washed and programed to respond to certain sound stimuli. But I don't believe it. I think RDM took his show into yet another new direction.

Certainly the mind frack has begun. Kara has returned and she knows the way to Earth. All along the watchtower we stand and wait to see if the thief shows the joker the way on how to get out of this place.

[geoschmo]

I don't think Tigh's record as a Colonial warrior is inconsistant with him being a Cylon. It's been clearly established form the begining that there are human form cylons that don't know they are cylons. Six stated it pretty much in exactly those words during the original miniseries, and the point was proven with Boomer.

As to why the Cylons haven't been as hot to get the Chief's baby as they were Hera, it's also been pretty clearly established that the Cylons aren't some hive-mind like the Borg. They have a sense of each other, but it's not perfect. They are even capable of lying to each other. They may simply not know he has a child.

Plus, there might be some difference in having a half Cylon child with a human mother and one with a human father. Chief's baby may be nothing special as far as the Cylon's are concerned even if they knew about it.

I thought the finale was pretty good. I'm only pissed it's going to be next year before we find out what happens.

Geoschmo

[Randallw]

I know. It's all wargames. Everyone is a cylon. There are no such things as coloials, or if there are that's what the wargames are for, to deteremine likely tactics. It's like red team vs blue team only red team has had artifical memories placed in them to help them "play" their side better.

Perhaps the Human programmers have been following and watching in their cloaked lab ships http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Edit: I wondered for a second about my hypothesis since a few of them have been back to Caprica but we know in the Base ships the Cylons see their own reality, that's why the inside is so bland. Those who went back to Caprica were just seeing an artificial reality.

[Will]

Well, I need to go to work... but just wanted to post and say two things.

First... DAMN!

Second... well, did they ever refer to the thirteenth tribe of Kobol as a human tribe explicitly? It is apparent that the society that lived on Kobol was fairly advanced, and there was an exodus where the twelve tribes that formed the twelve colonies forgot most of their accomplishments from Kobol. What if one of those accomplishments was the creation of a thirteenth tribe (AKA, Cylons)? So, the final five could be considered the surviving models created on Kobol, and the toasters created in the twelve colonies were simply a re-discovery of what once was on Kobol, and these in turn spawned the other seven meat Cylons. The Cylons among the thirteenth tribe had long ago discovered the secret of reproduction that the seven colonial cylons are after, and had integrated themselves into Earth society... perhaps bringing along the Greek-ish culture of Kobol/Twelve Colonies?

Or maybe it's something completely different.

[MasterChiToes]

Backwards... the humans are on earth. The 12 colonies were founded by the Kobol Cylons, who forgot they are Cylons and in turn are repeating the history of recreating Cylons and being destroyed by them.

"This has happened before" has been repeated in the series.

I think the "four" are not Cylons (new Cylons anyway)... I think the music and the Starbuck thing are part of a new player on the scene... possibly ancients from Kobol, or Kobol Cylons, or the real "final five", or dare I hope Iblis.

[Tnargversion2]

I don't know about anyone else but after last night's finale all I could think about was Lynche's "Twin Peaks" or something in the lines bizzare but beautifully interesting and WHAT!

I ran through dozens of scenerios of how in the world could a Bob Dylan tune possibly be in deep space alone (not all jarbled up with millions of other transmissions that have leaked into space) and a driving theme for four of the characters. So does this mean that when the Colonials finally arrive on Earth it will more in likely be post Bob Dylan era or will it pre Bob Dylan, and that Bob Dylan is actually a Cylon or an offworlder who writes all of his songs from lucid memories of being in space but forgetting that he actually was in space.

I was first thinking that with this series when the 13th tribe eventually landed on Earth it was pre-civilization times and that in order to erase their problem of the evils of technology the Colonials destroyed everything and started from scratch and eventually started the greek culture after a few hundred years.

How long ago again did the 13th Colony leave Cobol in the timeline?

Now I am convinced that when they (the fleeing Colonials) do find Earth it will definatly be modern times due to this Bob Dylan thing. This goes to my previous question of how long ago did the 13th Colony supposedly settle Earth.

The fact that there are now Cylons discovering that they are now Cylons I can live with, but this Bob Dylan thing is going to drive me nuts until I figure out how this plays into the series.

[MasterChiToes]

There is a spoiler interview with Moore at AICN http://www.aintitcool.com/node/32045
Sounds awfully close to jump the shark material to me.

[Atrocities]

I still think this is all some drug induced dream that Rosilin is having on her way back from the decommissioning ceremonies on Galatica. When she wakes up its all over man!

[Atrocities]

I would have preferred to have heard Jimi's version of the song over Dylans.

[Tnargversion2]

Atrocities said:
I still think this is all some drug induced dream that Rosilin is having on her way back from the decommissioning ceremonies on Galatica. When she wakes up its all over man!



I was fearing the drug/hallucination/dream thing, but I can't possibly beleive that this would take that significant of a nose dive, even though there are some stong indications and plays towards this. I for one wouldn't riot in the street demanding my time be returned to me, but I know of people who would.

Do you suppose that they will introduce Bob Dylan as the fifth one. All things considered he would make a good Cylon emulating many of the traits that all of the other fleshy clyons have. Tye almost cherries it with his tantric "What the frack is going on" deamenors, and the mildly tosseled hair of the Chief is getting close along with the cool and somewhat "whatever man - I'm tuned in - but I can't figure out why" attitude. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

[Raapys]

Well, at least this episode( and the previous one ) was entertaining, as opposed to the last few. I'm just happy *something* is happening. This show takes way too long breaks from the main plot.

[Azselendor]

I think the whole "Tigh,Tyrol,Tori, and Anders" too Cylon plot is a bit too far fetched. Now it moves the appearance of human cylons to 20-years before the miniseries (as records could be faked, and adama's first meeting with tigh is 20 years prior I believe).

Then again, Moore or Eick did once answer the question "Who are the Final Five Cylons?" with the cryptic "Who said they had to be cylons?"


But I don't know. I enjoy the series enough in HD to keep watching, so I'll resume watching Doctor Who (At least we can blame that insanity on fun british humor) when it starts back next month to hold me over.

[AngleWyrm]

Atrocities said:
I don't buy for a minute the sudden and in my honest opinion, sloppy story change that Tigh and the Chief, as well as two others, are now cylons.


Looks like RM set himself up as the storyteller, and then ran out of gas. He's turned on his audience, messing with their minds.

[AgentZero]

Well, I finally got around to watching the finale, and it was a fair sight better than I expected. I'm not too bothered by the whole gasp They're Cylons! thing, because, well I'm just not. A lot of the other Cylons seemed to have no inkling that they were Cylons right up until they did something crazy, or were confronted with incontrovertable proof, so why should these lot be any different? Because a lot of time has gone by? Cylons like Boomer would have been 'under cover' for the better part of a decade, going through pilot training, serving aboard the Galactica, etc, so what's another 2-3 years on top of that?
Sure, it sniffs a little of jumping the shark, but I'm willing to go along with it.

More importantly, is it me or are shows getting shorter these days? I don't mean the actual episodes, but rather the seasons. When I was in school, most shows started around the same time as school (ie: mid-September) and ran til nearly the end of the school year (late May/early June). But now all the shows seem to be wrapping up before April. That's only a five month season! We'll spend longer waiting for a new season than we did watching the old one. Just doesn't seem right to me.

[Will]

I dunno. I seem to remember there being around 24 episodes in a standard season, usually with 1-3 weeks in the middle taken off (such as during Christmas, Thanksgiving, etc.). Which is still about half the year. But I'm seeing 12 and 20 as far more common numbers now.

[Raapys]

The standard was about 22, wasn't it? I only remember X-files as regularly having 24 about each season. The new shows rarely have more than twenty, it appears.

About them being Cylons, we still don't know if that means they're actually on team with the other Cylons, though. Or something else entirely. So I think it can be an interesting plot avenue. I'm wondering more about how they're going to explain the return of Starbuck.

[MasterChiToes]

Don't the previously known Cylons number 2 through 8? Wouldn't that leave 4 of the final five #9-#12 and the final one as #1?
Maybe the word "final" in final five refers to the final five Cylons from Kobol... and not just the final five of twelve models.

Anyway, I think Cylon #1 is the key to whether this new direction becomes interesting or just change for change sake.

[Azselendor]

Actually, only a couple of the cylons numbers are known.
http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Humanoid_Cylon

As for TV shows, seasons on most series used to be 24-26 episodes per year. That was during the 80's and 90's, but that's been sliding down where the number of episodes per series. It seems they've linked it to the show's performance now. Some shows only get picked up for 10-13 episodes per season, others can pull 20-22 episodes.

It's all about the budget. the 13 episode half seasons or pilot seasons most networks jump for is actually a hold over from the 80's when new series would get a pickup for 13 episodes and if it did well in the ratings for the first 7, the network would order an additional 13 for a full season. But if they didn't, the network would have 13-hours of filler material during their off seasons.

[GuyOfDoom]

It also comes from the fact that more and more and more TV time is being wasted with advertisements and thus they have less time to actually show you what you are actually watching the TV for.

[Hunpecked]

#1 is Patrick McGoohan. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif (My entry in the monthly "Most Obscure Reference" contest.)

As utterly gimmicky, out-of-your-***, and shark-jumpy as it is, making Tigh a Cylon at least explains D'Anna's apology to the Cylon-of-Light: "Forgive me" as in, "Gee, sorry we gouged out your eyeball!"

Of course that doesn't explain how Tigh, who fought in the war before the toasters "evolved" into human form, could be a Cylon at all, let alone one of the "final" five. Unless he was replaced, of course, and that would imply the Cylons could download human minds (see below), which they apparently didn't do on New Caprica. It also implies the Cylons can't tell humans and Cylons apart any more than humans can.

That also explains why the Cylons aren't interested in the Chief's baby, not knowing he's a Cylon. However, that raises the question of Cylon reproduction again; if "love" is the missing ingredient, and since both Sharon 1 and the Chief have been shown to have it, and even did the nasty together pre-series, then why wouldn't they be capable of reproducing?

Never mind. The show is so full of plot holes that another makes no difference.

I agree with AT's thoughts way back in November that Baltar is probably a Cylon, and perhaps the #1 Cylon. Computers do what they're told, no more &amp; no less, so (in the real world, anyway) if even "sentient" robots rebel, they've been subverted by a human. That human may have started the rebellion, designed the humanoid Cylons, and then achieved immortality by transferring his mind to the "Baltar" model. The Caprica Six in his head may be #1's way of guiding his "clone".

As for next season, I predict the "Space Faeries" who resurrected Kara (did anyone on this board really think she was dead?) lured the Cylon ships to the nebula, caused the power outage (which hit the Cylons, too), and will now destroy them easily since their jump drives also have to "spin up" again, just like the Colonials'.

Either that, or Kara was found by Lorien, from Babylon 5:

Kara: "Hi, Lee."
Lee: "I thought you were dead."
Kara: "I was dead. I'm better now." http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

This show belongs on Comedy Central. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Atrocities]

Well now that we have started down this road where we know who the four of the final five cylons are, we'll have to wait and see how RDM explains this. I for one have mixed feelings about this. I think they took what could have been a great series and muddled it down with way to much nonsense and sudo-mystical self absorbing drama that really has no meaning and is seldom ever explained.

The whole cylon god thing has been replaced by these five mystical cylon types who we now know. Like I said before, this entire series is one giant "lets make it up as we go" fiasco. But like a car wreck on the free, we all slow down to watch. It not like any of us have anything better to do.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Atrocities said:It not like any of us have anything better to do.


Yeah, it's not like there isn't some sort of, oh, I don't know, way to write down the things we speak. I think I'll invent that. Maybe call them 'letters' and 'words'. Organize them into what I'll call 'sentences' and 'paragraphs'. Will need some 'symbols' to help...I'll call them 'puncuation'.
I'll probably 'write' them down on...Oh, say, cloth made from shredded trees and rags. Call it 'paper'. Will need some way of organizing them...Perhaps rectangular 'pages', glues into a holder called a 'book'.

My, this all sounds like a good idea. How come no-one thought of it before?

(Sorry, I'm naturally snarky and it has to come out somehow... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif )

[Atrocities]

Narf, are you feeling ok?

[StarJack]

Hunpecked said:
Either that, or Kara was found by Lorien, from Babylon 5:

Kara: "Hi, Lee."
Lee: "I thought you were dead."
Kara: "I was dead. I'm better now." http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

This show belongs on Comedy Central. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif



http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Fyron]

Lorien would certainly add a touch of class to BSG...

[Azselendor]

Actually, There is no proof of Tigh's involvement in the first war. See, we only know of his involvement from his own account, computer records, and billy's comment that he was once a published military historian after the war.

Adama, however, met him 20 years prior to the miniseries. The war was 40 years prior. So could his history have been forged? yes.

Tyrol being a cylon would also resolve why Tyrol's time of Pegasus didn't pop up when Cain went to execute him - not that it would've mattered.


On a side note, RDM has repeated comments like this many times: "I'm making this up as I go, there is no master plan."

[GuyOfDoom]

"I'm making this up as I go, there is no master plan."



And that line right there is the sign that a series should just end.

[VanderVecken]

Dont care if I'm in the minority on this, I thought the season was a good one, with 2 or 3 standout shows, and 5 or six WOW moments that made me glad that BSG was re-made.
Even when I didn't like something, I was still interested. I hope it goes on for 2 more years.

Of course, 'Heroes' is even better with almost triple the Wow moments.

Still, BSG will have a nice chunk of the little TV I still watch.

P.S. some of my best roleplaying Gamemastering moments were "off the Cuff - and on the Fly' (of course a few tanked as well, hehehe)

[GuyOfDoom]

VanderVecken said:
P.S. some of my best roleplaying Gamemastering moments were "off the Cuff - and on the Fly' (of course a few tanked as well, hehehe)



Unfortunately it just makes for bad TV. The best TV shows have all been ones that have had forethought and planning put into them. Every time a show starts caving to the demands of ratings rather than the demands of the fans it's just a downward spiral.

[Azselendor]

All for All, no one can really complain about this new BSG when compared to the 70's version. And it has had a longer run thanks to it not being a continuation in any shape or form.

But it's failure lies in it moving away from the points made in the first season and miniseries.

I remember the trailer tagline for the tv series before it started. "Other stories start at the beginning, this one starts at the end." and then a shot of a big mushroom cloud.

In the first season and first half of season 2, BSG was very much a show of survival. BSG needs to get back to that.

[MasterChiToes]

I could have sworn that one of the Cylon models was referred to as #2.


Azselendor said:
All for All, no one can really complain about this new BSG when compared to the 70's version.



I think that isn't really fair to the 70's version. In a sense, the original BSG was more "A New Hope" while the new BSG is more "Revenge of the Sith".
The production value of the new is clearly better, and the plot is less basic... but there is a trend to equate confused with complex in modern drama, and as such I don't think the depth people attribute to the new series is entirely warranted.

[GuyOfDoom]

The whole inital reason I was turned off from new BSG was that from it's onset it only had a limited shelf life and the whole concept of maintaining a small population under heavy stress while pursued by a superior enemy limited how long it could last and what they could do with it. It appears I was wrong, but only by them taking the show in a whole other direction.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Atrocities said:
Narf, are you feeling ok?


Yeah. I'm not normally snarky on here for some reason, but occasional comments like that are not out of character.

[Azselendor]

MasterChiToes said:
I could have sworn that one of the Cylon models was referred to as #2.


Azselendor said:
All for All, no one can really complain about this new BSG when compared to the 70's version.



I think that isn't really fair to the 70's version. In a sense, the original BSG was more "A New Hope" while the new BSG is more "Revenge of the Sith".



It's funny you bring up Revenge of the Sith and A New Hope. While the 1970's BSG was accused of ripping off Star Wars, Revenge of Sith's opening battle sequence was inspired by the new BSG.

[Tim_Ward]

http://www.game-warden.com/bsg/

[AngleWyrm]

Have you played Black and White 2?
Beyond the Red Line is like that.

[Renegade 13]

Whaaaaaaaaa necromancy! Run!

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Aaah! The zombies are coming! The zombies are coming!