SE5 bad reviews and problems.

[Sabrax]

Ok, first off I'm not trying to start a flame war or upset anyone. With that said I'm kinda tired of hearing about all the problems and what's wrong with the game. I can't recall any games recently that have been "totally" bug free. Here's the way I see it. Malfador has honestly given me something that I think is absolutely wonderful... a basic game engine that people can make into virtually anything they want. The strength in this game is that it IS so easily moddable. I can understand why some people are upset but I think that probably about 80% of the people on these forums feel the same way I do. Yes there are problems but given some time people like Kwok, Devnullicus and Atrocities will make some of the most awesome mods that will make this game great. I know I left alot of names off that list but those 3 made the mods and shipsets that made me keep se4 on my hard drive for about 4 years now. Just my two cents.

[Kana]

Agreed...and add SJ, Fryon and TG to the list.

[Artaud]

Sabrax said:
Ok, first off I'm not trying to start a flame war or upset anyone. With that said I'm kinda tired of hearing about all the problems and what's wrong with the game.



I hear you, but I think the game DOES have problems, and those of us who bring them up are doing so because we care and want things to be better.

I sense a growing hostility here toward those of us who are not happy with the way SEV turned out. Some here are sick and tired of listening to us, and the clear message is to sing praise or keep quiet.


Sabrax said:
...Malfador has honestly given me something that I think is absolutely wonderful... a basic game engine that people can make into virtually anything they want...



That, my friend, is part of the problem. I personally don't want to pay for a game engine that can be fixed by modders.

I want to pay for a complete game.

[Captain Kwok]

I find there's a split. Some players are happy because they get to mess around with SE:V now despite the bugs and those that think the game was release too early and are dissappointed. There's nothing wrong with either position, it's just a matter of preference.

I think the game was released too early considering the fact there are a lot of new players discovering the series and the current bugginess makes a very bad impression. Of course us long-time SE players have some comfort in knowing that the issues will be resolved - but new players don't have that comfort and that's bad for the series.

[Atrocities]

I agree that this is indeed a wonderful game and I know that with the on going support that Aaron has always demonstrated in regard to his games, this game will only continue to get better. Despite the bugs, this is indeed one *****'n game to say the least.

The neat thing about having the game out is that the people who play it are now reporting the bugs as they discover them. This can only help make the game better.

Was the game released to early, YES, yes it was. I say at least 8 to 12 more weeks were needed. However by releasing the game early, a ton of new bug reports have been generated by players. So in the end, releasing the game in the state that it was in was a good move for improving the game, but a bad move for those explecting a 100% bug free game on version 1.0. (Unrealistic in my opinion but hey they are out there, and they ***** like mad when things aren't bug free.)

[Atrocities]

I sense a growing hostility here toward those of us who are not happy with the way SEV turned out. Some here are sick and tired of listening to us, and the clear message is to sing praise or keep quiet.



If any one is making any one else uncomfortable because they are not happy with the way SE V turned out, then they need to step back a bit and recall how SE IV was when it was released back in 2000. I for one VALUE any post that is constructive in its feed back and points out lagitimate problems with the game. I mean how else are these problems going to be addressed if no one is willing to point them out?

[Combat Wombat]

lol look at a game like Battlefield 2142, they have a massive dev team and charge the full $50 for the game, had a massive public beta where they got tons of free testing, reusing the same engine that has powered their last 3 games, and they still have a massive ammount of bugs. Now there is a game no one should be buying.

[Fyron]

Artaud said:
I sense a growing hostility here toward those of us who are not happy with the way SEV turned out. Some here are sick and tired of listening to us, and the clear message is to sing praise or keep quiet.

Huh? I haven't noticed any such message or hostility.

Sabrax said:
That, my friend, is part of the problem. I personally don't want to pay for a game engine that can be fixed by modders.

I think what he meant was it provides a good engine from which to build all sorts of mods, not that it is incomplete somehow (a bit unbalanced and buggy, yeah, but it has a lot of features in the stock game...).

Combat Wombat
Now there is a game (BF 1942) no one should be buying.

Not to mention the highly featured adware you have to agree to to install it...

[Combat Wombat]

Oh I even forgot about the adware that watches what you do on the internet and gives you _IN GAME_ ads based on it, and they still charge you $50 which is outrageous for all the reasons listed above.

[mac5732]

This Forum has always been open for everyone's opinions, whether is was for, against, or whatever. To say one is tired of hearing complaints on a particular game is an unfair ascertaion to the meaning of this forum. Everyone here is entitled to their opinion. Thats what has made this forum a unique place among forums. We have no flame wars as we respect everyones opinions whether we agree or disagree. What better place to discuss the aspects of various games, the pros and the cons. There have been many discussions on a whole range of games as well as other topics within this forum. Everyone here has a right to put forth their opinion as long as the forum rules are observed. This forum encourages discussion among its members on games and other topics. Not everyone will agree or disagree on any one topic. That is our choice. Therefore, if one dislikes, is dissatified, loves, or becomes addicted to a game he/she has the right to express his/her opion without ridicule. No computer game is perfect, and on the same hand, some games are released to soon and still need work. Where better to discuss the problems, bugs and whatever then here on the forum where everyone is able to put forth their 2 cents. Which in turn can/is relayed to the designers of that particular game. after all, isn't the whole idea to make the game/s better, more playable, and fun for everyone? This can be accomplished by explaining bugs, problems, etc that are found by us the gamers in order to be delivered again to the designers. In addition, sometimes, what some consider to be bugs or flaws, after discussions here on the forum, are found to be just the opposite and have legitimate reasons for doing what they do, or one finds that they were using them wrong or not in the proper way. Without discussion of the pros and cons, some of these complaints would be unnecessarily sent to the designers which would take up constructive time from fixing the actual problems that were found.

This is my opinion and not intended to hurt anyones feelings but to put forth my impressions of what this forum is/has/was and continues to be, a free and constructive forum on all aspects of games and other topics where no one should be afraid to give their opions/feelings/likes/dislikes/ on the topics contained within.

[Dejavuproned]

On a good note, Malfador updated the website, appearently they listened to all the bug reports and reviewed saved games send to them and are releasing a patch accordingly. It is expected on the 6th hopefully.

This is why I never worried about the buggyness of the game, timely patches!

[Atrocities]

Combat Wombat said:
Oh I even forgot about the adware that watches what you do on the internet and gives you _IN GAME_ ads based on it, and they still charge you $50 which is outrageous for all the reasons listed above.



WTH!!! This kind of thing should be stomped to death at inception. I WILL NEVER BUY A GAME that requires you to install adware so they can market content to me while I play their game based upon my on line activities. THIS IS JUST PLAIN WRONG!

No its worse than wrong, its upper case DEAD WRONG AND EVIL!

[Kana]

Atrocities said:
Was the game released to early, YES, yes it was. I say at least 8 to 12 more weeks were needed. However by releasing the game early, a ton of new bug reports have been generated by players. So in the end, releasing the game in the state that it was in was a good move for improving the game, but a bad move for those explecting a 100% bug free game on version 1.0. (Unrealistic in my opinion but hey they are out there, and they ***** like mad when things aren't bug free.)



I agree as well...yet I heard of the 50 or so beta testers...about half or more flaked out, which left the rest with a large workload. Plus it seems that most companies now are pre-releasing most game, in some form of public beta test, months before release, to squash bugs, balance game play, and test game engine, and any MP infrastrucure if need for said game. In many instances, Company of Heroes for instance, made the end release a much better game, not mention helped the hype of the game.

SEV could have used a bit more beta testing in my opinon, maybe a slightly large pool of testers other than the initial 50...Yet with MM track record of patching, and listening, and now that this is his so called full time job, he will be able to do it in a more timely fashion than SEIV. So I say play the game to death, find out whats wrong, and report it. The game will become better, and the mods will make it playable for many years to come. Much longer than some other games I've played in the past 6 years.

[Santiago]

I think there is also a split along the modders/non-modders line. SEV was made for its modding abilty first and it's playability 2nd. At least it seems that way to me. I do mod some small items to suit for taste, but a whole mod takes hard work, time and dedication. If Kwok's Balance Mod wasn't ready to go, I think there would have been even more complaints.

The release imo should have waited a little longer, but its a trade-off. More bugs are getting squashed sooner.

But that doesn't solve the problems with a questionably designed UI. Hopefully this will be looked at when most of the game bugs are fixed and not forgotten about.

Someone in another post here or one of the other sites made a comment about (paraphrasing) in 5 or 6 years SEV will be at the point SEIV is. Problem is that's fine for the faithful not necessarily new customers.

[Tim_Ward]

Was the game released to early, YES, yes it was. I say at least 8 to 12 more weeks were needed. However by releasing the game early, a ton of new bug reports have been generated by players. So in the end, releasing the game in the state that it was in was a good move for improving the game, but a bad move for those explecting a 100% bug free game on version 1.0. (Unrealistic in my opinion but hey they are out there, and they ***** like mad when things aren't bug free.)



A false dichotamy. No game will ever be bug free, but that's no excuse for releasing games that are near unplayable.

As it happens, Aaron does have excuses and mitigating factors. Like being one man trying to single handedly produce a highly detailed turn based stratagy game. Balance, design, coding, it's all him. Other developers have departments for those things and they still aren't making games half has complex as SEV. The other mitigating factors are his manic patching, and the work that eventually gets produced by the modders.

You do have to question the wisdom of this approach, from a commerical point of view. The first few weeks after a game is released are the most critical. People aren't going to buy a game they hear is unplayable now, but don't worry after a few months or years there'll be all these patches and mods and then it'll be awesome! It's a shame, SEV deserves to do well and the TBS genre as a whole needs it to do well.

[Xrati]

The Beta Testers should have been choosen more carefully. It IS an important step in releasing a product. Many of these bugs could have been found in the playtesting and patched before release. These don't seem to be bugs that require a 'long' game to discover, but are 'in fact' some basic game operations that are flawed. While I don't agrue that the playtesters did a good job, maybe they just needed some modders and dedicated players to have been playtesting?

[Yimboli]

Imperator Fyron said:
Artaud said:
I sense a growing hostility here toward those of us who are not happy with the way SEV turned out. Some here are sick and tired of listening to us, and the clear message is to sing praise or keep quiet.

Huh? I haven't noticed any such message or hostility.




I have. It's nothing I can put a finger on and say "Here's the hostility! Here's what we're talking about! Everyone look at this!" but I've felt it. I've seen little or no outright bashing of critics on the forums, but I have noticed that many criticisms are summarily ignored, yielding contempt and a growing split. Maybe that's why you haven't noticed it.


Santiago said:
The release imo should have waited a little longer, but its a trade-off. More bugs are getting squashed sooner.




There certainly comes a time in debugging where you have part of the code bug free, and part buggy... when fixing bugs reaches diminishing returns and releasing the game (via public beta, full release, etc.) becomes more cost efficient. I think the only thing you can argue about here is where exactly that point of diminishing returns lies, and of course everyone has their own opinion.



For the sake of argument, we can divide the end users up into the moderately-fan-to-hardcore-forumgoer category and the new-or-non-forumgoer user. As a member of the former, I know that se5 has immense potential like se4 did. Contributions from people like Fyron, Kwok, SJ, AT, etc will provide enough options that most of us will be able to find a niche we like. I will eventually buy the game. Folks that fall under the latter category will likely read the reviews that were based on the initial buggy release and say no thanks. Unfortunately sites like cnet.com and ign don't go back periodically and update reviews based on patches and mods that come out a year after release. That would certainly help.

I think a public beta period *would have* helped if malfaydor was a large enough company to handle all the bug reports (this has been discussed on the forums before). This has almost all the benefits associated with a full release without the negative reviews that come with a buggy release. The alternative to a public beta is fewer bugs to begin with. Aaron managed neither. That's why we have this thread.

[Captain Kwok]

Xrati said:These don't seem to be bugs that require a 'long' game to discover, but are 'in fact' some basic game operations that are flawed. While I don't agrue that the playtesters did a good job, maybe they just needed some modders and dedicated players to have been playtesting?

90-95% of the currently reported bugs/flaws were reported - but unfortunately the release date came before most of these could be addressed.

[Elsemeravin]

Yimboli said:
I have. It's nothing I can put a finger on and say "Here's the hostility! Here's what we're talking about! Everyone look at this!" but I've felt it. I've seen little or no outright bashing of critics on the forums, but I have noticed that many criticisms are summarily ignored, yielding contempt and a growing split.





Don't you think it could simply be that reasonable people will easily react and add comments to one opinion they agree with, while only read without answering to someone whose opinion they do not agree with.
They of course the result is a few post with negative opinion and few answers and more enthusiastic posts with many emotional answers.
It does not necessarily means contempt and ignoring.

[Mephisto]

Captain Kwok said:

Xrati said:These don't seem to be bugs that require a 'long' game to discover, but are 'in fact' some basic game operations that are flawed. While I don't agrue that the playtesters did a good job, maybe they just needed some modders and dedicated players to have been playtesting?

90-95% of the currently reported bugs/flaws were reported - but unfortunately the release date came before most of these could be addressed.



Yep.

[Fyron]

Yimboli said:
...many criticisms are summarily ignored...

Or, perhaps, they are agreed with, which is less likely to get a posted response than something disagreed with?

Captain Kwok said:
90-95% of the currently reported bugs/flaws were reported - but unfortunately the release date came before most of these could be addressed.

Though people need to keep in mind that there were a lot of bugs fixed and features rebuilt for playability purposes during the beta, so it's not like Aaron twiddled his thumbs or anything...

[RonGianti]

Artaud said:
I sense a growing hostility here toward those of us who are not happy with the way SEV turned out. Some here are sick and tired of listening to us, and the clear message is to sing praise or keep quiet.




I've never seen someone told that they should not give their opinion. I have seen people offer:

1. help with customizing the UI
2. Custom MODs available BEFORE the game was even official
3. Details about Malfador's patch policy, which is great.

Other than that, what help can be expected here from a bunch of guys here on a forum setup for FANS of the game? There are things that will be patched, things that can be modded (or customized, like the UI) and there is the core game, which is pretty much set in stone.

How much validation does someone need if, after all that help, they still dont' like the game? What is the board supposed to do? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

[Sabrax]

I honestly did not mean that criticism should be squelched and everyone should sing the praises of se5. I will admit that it has problems. I intended NO hostility toward anyone at all but I do believe that most of the people who love this series do so primarily for the moddabily. The complainning I refered to primarily comes from people who have probably never played the series and jump in (and actually wasn't even on these boards). kwok brought up a good point that the problems do prevent the fanbase from growing to an extent because new players do get put off at first. So I apologize if anyone felt I was being harsh or rude. I know we've all seen a game we thought was ok just needing a little work SLAMMED in forums by people who just expected instant gratification.
Luckily these forums do tend to be open and everyone seems to be well spoken and polite. So to the new players and those put off by the game I would say...have a little patience and give it chance. It will grow on you.

[Atrocities]

Xrati said:
The Beta Testers should have been choosen more carefully. It IS an important step in releasing a product. Many of these bugs could have been found in the playtesting and patched before release. These don't seem to be bugs that require a 'long' game to discover, but are 'in fact' some basic game operations that are flawed. While I don't agrue that the playtesters did a good job, maybe they just needed some modders and dedicated players to have been playtesting?



With all due respect Xrait, you were not involed in the beta testing therefore you have no knowledge as to what went on. So please keep your specultive derogatory, and that is the way I read it, comments regarding the "beta, or beta testers" private.

[Xrati]

Not knowing how the play testing did go, does not matter. I see the end product! I had hoped, it would have turned out to be better. It appears as all the original purchasers are the testers! While I have no doubt that all the bugs will get fixed. I'm afraid that the game has already lost a good portion of sales due to the original release of a "bugged" game. Once you lose creditability, it’s hard to regain it.

[Desdinova]

mac5732 said:
This Forum has always been open for everyone's opinions, whether is was for, against, or whatever. To say one is tired of hearing complaints on a particular game is an unfair ascertaion to the meaning of this forum. Everyone here is entitled to their opinion. Thats what has made this forum a unique place among forums. We have no flame wars as we respect everyones opinions whether we agree or disagree. What better place to discuss the aspects of various games, the pros and the cons. There have been many discussions on a whole range of games as well as other topics within this forum. Everyone here has a right to put forth their opinion as long as the forum rules are observed. This forum encourages discussion among its members on games and other topics. Not everyone will agree or disagree on any one topic. That is our choice. Therefore, if one dislikes, is dissatified, loves, or becomes addicted to a game he/she has the right to express his/her opion without ridicule. No computer game is perfect, and on the same hand, some games are released to soon and still need work. Where better to discuss the problems, bugs and whatever then here on the forum where everyone is able to put forth their 2 cents. Which in turn can/is relayed to the designers of that particular game. after all, isn't the whole idea to make the game/s better, more playable, and fun for everyone? This can be accomplished by explaining bugs, problems, etc that are found by us the gamers in order to be delivered again to the designers. In addition, sometimes, what some consider to be bugs or flaws, after discussions here on the forum, are found to be just the opposite and have legitimate reasons for doing what they do, or one finds that they were using them wrong or not in the proper way. Without discussion of the pros and cons, some of these complaints would be unnecessarily sent to the designers which would take up constructive time from fixing the actual problems that were found.

This is my opinion and not intended to hurt anyones feelings but to put forth my impressions of what this forum is/has/was and continues to be, a free and constructive forum on all aspects of games and other topics where no one should be afraid to give their opions/feelings/likes/dislikes/ on the topics contained within.



THIS FORUM is a very open minded, helpful and cooperative one. If this forum was the "Official Forum" it would be better, unfortunately the people new to the game are going to go to the official site. I know several of you visit the other site and help where you can but it may not be enough to really help sell the idea to wait for the patches and give the game a chance. REMEMBER what happened with moo3! admittedly it did not have the support this does but if the people do not know about the mods and other items this forum has that are not posted on the "official" one then the game may not be the success it has the potential to be.

I know way to wordy and roundabout but i have not slept lately. yawn. just my 2 cents worth.

[Xrati]

Kana said:

Atrocities said:
Was the game released to early, YES, yes it was. I say at least 8 to 12 more weeks were needed. However by releasing the game early, a ton of new bug reports have been generated by players. So in the end, releasing the game in the state that it was in was a good move for improving the game, but a bad move for those explecting a 100% bug free game on version 1.0. (Unrealistic in my opinion but hey they are out there, and they ***** like mad when things aren't bug free.)



I agree as well...yet I heard of the 50 or so beta testers...about half or more flaked out, which left the rest with a large workload. Plus it seems that most companies now are pre-releasing most game, in some form of public beta test, months before release, to squash bugs, balance game play, and test game engine, and any MP infrastrucure if need for said game. In many instances, Company of Heroes for instance, made the end release a much better game, not mention helped the hype of the game.

SEV could have used a bit more beta testing in my opinon, maybe a slightly large pool of testers other than the initial 50...Yet with MM track record of patching, and listening, and now that this is his so called full time job, he will be able to do it in a more timely fashion than SEIV. So I say play the game to death, find out whats wrong, and report it. The game will become better, and the mods will make it playable for many years to come. Much longer than some other games I've played in the past 6 years.




AT, My comment was based on this information. The modders and "Hard CORE" players would have made excellent testers. To those playtesters who stuck it out, 'Great Job!' They are not the ones I'm talking about. They are still here on this forum and still playing and modding. I meant we just could have used more of them and I still beleive that they should have been chosen better. To those who bailed, well enough said.

[Yimboli]

Elsemeravin said:

Yimboli said:
I have. It's nothing I can put a finger on and say "Here's the hostility! Here's what we're talking about! Everyone look at this!" but I've felt it. I've seen little or no outright bashing of critics on the forums, but I have noticed that many criticisms are summarily ignored, yielding contempt and a growing split.





Don't you think it could simply be that reasonable people will easily react and add comments to one opinion they agree with, while only read without answering to someone whose opinion they do not agree with.
They of course the result is a few post with negative opinion and few answers and more enthusiastic posts with many emotional answers.
It does not necessarily means contempt and ignoring.



could be! but I'm not the only one talking about a split.

[Fyron]

Xrati said:
The modders and "Hard CORE" players would have made excellent testers.

2/3 of the testers are modders and "hard-core" players, though. They were chosen well. The only ones that were not explicitly chosen are the ones that won the lottery, or that got a slot from the Race to SEV tournament.

For the record, it was far less than half that "flaked out..." Really only a few. There were a few that had to stop testing due to real life reasons, but there is nothing shameful about that (or foreseeable).

[Atrocities]

I have to agree with Fyron. There are over 11,000 posts in the beta forum in just over a year. This does not include the Chat sessions, Features DB, or emails to Aaron. The beta was officialy delayed once or twice do to RL issues but not for long. The beta testers were an exceptional bunch of dedicated people who spent a lot of their personal free time testing the game. Their efforts made the difference and if you were to ask Aaron about it, I am willing to bet my copy of SE V that he has nothing but good things to say about most of the beta testers.

I have been invovled in at least five beta tests now and by far this one has been the most productive of them all. Our suggestions and bug reports were acted upon by Aaron.

Aaron is only one man, and being steam rolled with bug reports, feature requests, suggestions, and other, does result in a more drawn out beta than if there were a team of programers working on the game. For one man, and a small beta test team, Aaron has done a wonderful job with SE V. The game will only continue to get better as the bug reports keep coming in. In a year I will bet we will all be very happy with this game and will even be discussing what we would like to see in an expansion pack.

This game has so much potential that it fills me with joy just thinking about it. And to actually make me fill optomisic enough to feel joy given the way my mind works, is truly a profound thing.

The more the bugs and dislikes about the game are reported in a constructive helpful manor, the better the game will ultimately become. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Captain Kwok]

The root of the problem is time. MM really needs a second person to handle things like game balance or documentation, so that Aaron can focus on the game engine rather than time-consuming tasks like manuals, tutorials, or balancing.

Is there enough money for this now? Is there someone at SFI that can work in this capacity? Does somebody want to pay me to do this? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Jeku]

"Oh I even forgot about the adware that watches what you do on the internet and gives you _IN GAME_ ads based on it, and they still charge you $50 which is outrageous for all the reasons listed above."

*Actually* this isn't true. There is no adware--- just a dirty rumour that got spread around pretty fast. I happen to work for EA so when I heard about this I was pretty infuriated, and didn't want to be mixed in with a company that would do this.

What it is, is when you play the game, a 3rd party company receives your IP, and sends your country name to the game, then destroys the IP. The game uses your country name *alone* to determine which in-game ads to show. This is so you don't get ads in different languages, etc.

There is no adware, and nothing that logs what sites your browse, etc. I just wish people did more research before further propagating this kind of rumour :-|

[shinigami]

Jeku said:
when you play the game, a 3rd party company receives your IP



Whether defined as adware or as spyware this practice is just plain wrong and if people stop buying their products in protest, tough, you reap what you sow. If they wanted to use in-game ads based on your country they could have pulled the regional settings from the registry.

[Yimboli]

shinigami said:

Jeku said:
when you play the game, a 3rd party company receives your IP



Whether defined as adware or as spyware this practice is just plain wrong and if people stop buying their products in protest, tough, you reap what you sow. If they wanted to use in-game ads based on your country they could have pulled the regional settings from the registry.



do you view pulling registry settings as less invasive than getting the IP?

[shinigami]

Lesser of two evils, yes. A program checking the registry is common practice. I would prefer that one did not do even that, though.

[Suicide Junkie]

The third party thing is a big hole. You can't always trust the *maker* of the game these days, what with asinine stuff like starforce these days. God knows what a third party will do.

Besides, the IP address thing is less accurate anyways.
Especially for European stuff, where it is easy to drive to a new country with completely different language.

On the other hand, it is a given that the user can read whatever language their regional settings are set to. If you don't read Italian, your PC isn't going to be set to Italian, even if you're visiting Italy at the time.

Or, heck, you could let the user choose what language they want the ads in! You're already doing that for the game's UI, right?

The question of why there are ads in a game you already paid for anyways is a separate matter.

[President_Elect_Shang]

I fail to see what the problem here is gentlemen? I personally like to learn of a new cream for my hemorrhoids while I blow away someone else’s! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif

[AAshbery76]

Captain Kwok said:
Does somebody want to pay me to do this? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif



Why when your already doing it for free?

[Tim_Ward]

Jeku said:
"Oh I even forgot about the adware that watches what you do on the internet and gives you _IN GAME_ ads based on it, and they still charge you $50 which is outrageous for all the reasons listed above."

*Actually* this isn't true. There is no adware--- just a dirty rumour that got spread around pretty fast. I happen to work for EA so when I heard about this I was pretty infuriated, and didn't want to be mixed in with a company that would do this.

What it is, is when you play the game, a 3rd party company receives your IP, and sends your country name to the game, then destroys the IP. The game uses your country name *alone* to determine which in-game ads to show. This is so you don't get ads in different languages, etc.

There is no adware, and nothing that logs what sites your browse, etc. I just wish people did more research before further propagating this kind of rumour :-|



That is adware; software that downloads and displays ads. What you describe is spyware; software that logs users online behavior &c.

These people that don't do their research, eh? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Fyron]

The application is adware, since it serves up ads... But does it really matter? It is despicable either way.

(PS: It's not really necessary to quote entire posts like that, especially when you are only adding a sentence or two... Usually better to just pick a critical sentence or so to quote, cut out the rest.)

[Yimboli]

shinigami said:
Lesser of two evils, yes. A program checking the registry is common practice. I would prefer that one did not do even that, though.



agreed.

[Jeku]

"What you describe is spyware; software that logs users online behavior &c."

Um, I didn't say it logs user's online behaviour. I said it *doesn't* do that. It simply sends your IP address one time when you first start the game, which is destroyed immediately.

The in-game ads is a different issue altogether, but I just wanted to make clear that this is neither adware nor spyware, especially as they are upfront with it in the first place with the leaflet inside the game box.

[Atrocities]

The last thing I want to see when I am playing a game is an adverstisement for SHRAPNEL GAMES, popping up on some build board in the game. (No offense Shrap, but your site is like the only site I regularly visit so... it would be the site that might pop up.)

They are doing this because it is what google and now AOL do with email and web searches. YOu get an email message from someone asking you about say the Star Trek Mod and on the side I get all these advertisement about Star Trek.. WTF! If I want to search for something like that I will do it on my own. I hate the fact that my email, and now my games, are being data mined in order to force feed me advertisment. If that is the way things are going, kinda like paid tv has gone, then I WANT TO BE PAID to play!

[Suicide Junkie]

Note:
Just because they admit it is adware dosen't make it not adware.

[Jeku]

"No offense Shrap, but your site is like the only site I regularly visit so... it would be the site that might pop up."

It's like I'm talking to a wall. I said it *doesn't* log the sites you visit. How many times can I say the same thing over and over again http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Fyron]

Do you have verifiable source of evidence, or is that an anti-rumor rumor?

Even if it doesn't track sites you visit, it is still a despicable practice (ad banners in products you explicitly paid for).

[Xrati]

LOL, I like the "Play on Words."

[Suicide Junkie]

Tracking sites you visit has no bearing on whether it is adware or not. It is the simple fact of having Ads built in.

Ads + software = Adware

[Jeku]

"Do you have verifiable source of evidence, or is that an anti-rumor rumor?"

Like I said, I work at EA so I did my own little investigation when the game was released. I didn't want to be associated with a company that installs adware or spyware. There are also articles on Gamespot and IGN that distill the incorrect rumour as just that, a rumour.

"Even if it doesn't track sites you visit, it is still a despicable practice (ad banners in products you explicitly paid for)."

Actually it's not. Think about it. World of Warcraft charges you what, $10 a month? The Battlefield franchise charges you a one-time fee of $50, in which you can play *forever* without another cost. EA has to pay to keep their servers on, and given there is almost 100,000 players logging on every DAY, you can imagine that this gets expensive.

[Jeku]

Sorry for the double post:

"On the 2142 note how can it make relevant in-game ads without tracking what you are doing on the internet. If it doesn't do that then it must just generate generic ads for everyone, if so then why does it need to do anything outside of run the game?

Exactly it does moniter what you are doing."

It bases the ads on your country based on your IP. It doesn't give you ads based on your interests. I don't even know why I'm defending the game, as I don't even like online FPS' http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Atrocities]

Jeku said:
"No offense Shrap, but your site is like the only site I regularly visit so... it would be the site that might pop up."

It's like I'm talking to a wall. I said it *doesn't* log the sites you visit. How many times can I say the same thing over and over again http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif



My bad, I wasn't refering to any comments. I was just making a facious joke. I haven't been following the posts so I didn't read yours. I was just making a generalized comment in an attempt at facious ironic humor. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Atrocities]

Suicide Junkie said:
Tracking sites you visit has no bearing on whether it is adware or not. It is the simple fact of having Ads built in.

Ads + software = Adware



You know we really need to point out that most of what we do now is tracked in one form or another from cell phone carriers to the GPS system in your car. That data is tracked, monitored, and sold. The cell phone industry tracks your colling paterns, cell sites signals to track your movements, and times of day or night that your phone is on and used. They then sell this info to ad companies who then stratigicially place bill boards in those high traffic routes and know when to call you on your phone for sales oppurtunities.

The GPS in your car is also used for the same thing. On Star was recently critizied for this. Cannot find the article or web site but I do recall hearing about it on the news a few months back.

[Yimboli]

Correct AT. I recall discussing this in an electronic navigation class in undergrad. If I find that stuff I'll post a link ...

[Combat Wombat]

On the 2142 note how can it make relevant in-game ads without tracking what you are doing on the internet. If it doesn't do that then it must just generate generic ads for everyone, if so then why does it need to do anything outside of run the game?

Exactly it does moniter what you are doing.

[Atrocities]

Can you imagine a time when your playing a game and up pops an ad for the porn site you just accidently visited? ROTFLMAO... Or worse, your kid is playing Barnies Great Gay Cookie Monster Adventure with Big Bird and Erne and up pops an add for a porn site for which you are a paying member of. Can any one say "Moooooooooooooooooooooooommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmeeee eeeeeeeeeeee!"

[RonGianti]

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/10/19

[Fyron]

Jeku said:
Like I said, I work at EA so I did my own little investigation when the game was released.

While I don't doubt that you did your investigation, that's not a verifiable source that all can refer to and, well, verify.

EA has to pay to keep their servers on, and given there is almost 100,000 players logging on every DAY, you can imagine that this gets expensive.

I can also imagine huge sums of money coming from all of those sales...

If they can not afford to run the servers (which I doubt), then they should charge to access the servers (or maybe charge to access "premium" servers and have free, but lower bandwidth/performance servers). Adware in a paid-for product is not acceptable.

In-game advertising is despicable in all forms. We are already overly saturated with a bombardment of advertisements everywhere else; we do not need games to fall prey to ad-whoring as well.

[Combat Wombat]

Are there still ads on non-ranked servers in which EA is not spending any money doing stat tracking? yes

Also its a bad trend what is happening in battlefield games where you have to play 100s if not 1000s of hours to unlock weapons and features that should have been available to you from the start. These features can only be obtained playing on ranked servers. But who cares more money for EA when you play their ad filled game...

Then the expansion packs, they make them even if theres still massive glaring issues in the orignal game that should never have been there to begin with. At least with MMO games you get the expansions for free almost all the time or you eventully get them for free if you wait long enough.

[Jeku]

You guys are hilarious. Ads have been showing up in games for *years*. Remember Space Quest V's Sprint logo? This isn't new. What's new is the ads update, so you don't get an ad for a car that's 5 years old.

Do you get upset when you see a coke can in a movie?

EDIT:

It's not like you have to sit through a commercial-- it's non-obtrusive. You pay for your cable TV every month but you still have commercials--- what do you do about that?

[Phoenix-D]

I don't pay for cable TV, that's what. And commericals are *exactly* why.

[Atrocities]

I know that ads have been appearing in games for a long while. AT&T and AOL have it down to a science. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif I want subscription satellite TV that has all the shows I want to watch BUT NO GD COMMERICIALS. I would pay for that. Turn it on any time to watch whatever show I want with no worries about having to sit through 40 minutes of commericals just to watch a 20 minute show.

[Possum]

1. The hostility to those of us who are not thrilled with Se5 is real. I have almost stopped posting here because of it.

2. Adware, spyware, pr0nware, whatever. Why argue over definitions when the boundaries have been blurring for years. It's all "malware", why not just leave it at that? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Atrocities]

Possum your opinion and thoughts are always valued. Not being thrilled with the game is a perfectly valid POV and NO ONE has the right to down play your comments or belittle you or any one else for that matter, in any way because of it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Now I must go beat my head against my desk and try and figure out why I cannot get SE V to run.

[Suicide Junkie]

To be honest, I'm not thrilled either. But I'm actually working on making it better instead of just complaining.

In a month or two of patches, GGmod will probably be getting close to thrilling. If I can find someone to make an AI for it, it will definitely hit thrilling http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[President_Elect_Shang]

Not thrilled either; however, my mod is moving smoothly and strong. I have already started testing using the kids as AI (ha-ha-ha). I wish someone could do the AI for me also, alas I don’t see that kind of support on the horizon and will wind up having to learn how to. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[Atrocities]

It take a look at those files PES and my eyes glaze over and I start to pass out. Man there is so much you can do that to even try to sort it all out takes a special kind of dedication that I just simply don't have. Hats off to anyone who makes a good mod for SE V.

[President_Elect_Shang]

Someone else was fooling with the files. I want to say it was Kwok but I’m not sure how far he’s been for the KwokMod. I will get around to doing it; there is no doubt about that. I just taught myself how to do the component, vehicle, damage, and facility formulas so I know I can do the AI also.

Changing subject your one of the Beta testers’ right? Do me a favor and ask Aaron if he ever got an email from me, well my real name, about an error tracker other than the one that appears on start up. I asked him about something like that over a week ago and haven’t heard back.

[Fyron]

1. The hostility to those of us who are not thrilled with Se5 is real. I have almost stopped posting here because of it.

Again, I don't really see it... Who is being hostile? Where?

Jeku said:
Ads have been showing up in games for *years*.

So? It was despicable then, it is despicable now. Luckily, I have never had the misfortune of buying a game with ads in it... Don't even want to think about how hard it would be to return such tripe. :-\

It's not like you have to sit through a commercial-- it's non-obtrusive. You pay for your cable TV every month but you still have commercials--- what do you do about that?

I don't watch TV. If I did, I would set up a DVR that let me skip ads (probably have to be a HTPC). But that's not the same thing anyways; you don't pay for each show, just a general connection service. Channels that you actually pay for have no ads (eg: HBO, Cinemax), other than the short spot between shows/movies telling you what else is on the channel. Paid download for episodes of shows don't include ads either (at least, the ones I've read about).

Broadcast TV is free, so being ad-supported is one thing. But a video game is most certainly not free... Even the ability to connect to multi-player servers is not free, because you have to buy the game (and expansions in some cases) to be able to do so. If they want to provide the _entire_ thing for free (like broadcast TV), then maybe, just maybe, they can make it ad-supported. Charge for the service, AND put in ads? Despicable. It's reminiscent of AOHell...

[AgentZero]

Imperator Fyron said:
1. The hostility to those of us who are not thrilled with Se5 is real. I have almost stopped posting here because of it.

Again, I don't really see it... Who is being hostile? Where?





On another gaming forum I frequent, they have a saying: "Screenshots or it didn't happen."
I'm tempted to say something similar here: "Quotes or it didn't happen."
I've seen plenty of accusations of hostilty, yet not a single link or quote to back it up. I could come up with plenty of links and quotes of people being friendly and helpful, so if there's all this hostility out there, why can't anyone provide some hard evidence.

I'm aware that someone will probably claim this post is being hostile and that's not what I'm going for. I'm just frustrated that so many people are talking about something that I just don't see.

[Yimboli]

AgentZero said:

On another gaming forum I frequent, they have a saying: "Screenshots or it didn't happen."
I'm tempted to say something similar here: "Quotes or it didn't happen."
I've seen plenty of accusations of hostilty, yet not a single link or quote to back it up. I could come up with plenty of links and quotes of people being friendly and helpful, so if there's all this hostility out there, why can't anyone provide some hard evidence.

I'm aware that someone will probably claim this post is being hostile and that's not what I'm going for. I'm just frustrated that so many people are talking about something that I just don't see.



Please read back, Sir. I appreciate the need for evidence, but lack of evidence does not mean there's no issue. I anticipated this issue a couple pages back.


Yimboli said:
It's nothing I can put a finger on and say "Here's the hostility! Here's what we're talking about! Everyone look at this!" but I've felt it. I've seen little or no outright bashing of critics on the forums, but I have noticed that many criticisms are summarily ignored, yielding contempt and a growing split. Maybe that's why you haven't noticed it.



Elsemeravin countered with the argument below.


Elsemeravin said:
Don't you think it could simply be that reasonable people will easily react and add comments to one opinion they agree with, while only read without answering to someone whose opinion they do not agree with.
They of course the result is a few post with negative opinion and few answers and more enthusiastic posts with many emotional answers.
It does not necessarily means contempt and ignoring.



Not being a huge forum-goer, I'm kinda naive as to the "typical" climate. I now can't decide one way or the other as to the climate of this forum because I have nothing to compare it to =/

Jury's still out for me =D

In the meantime I'll keep my chin up

[Possum]

Yimboli, let me explain.

I've been posting here, off and on, since October of 2000, I know how the mindset works, and I've known some of these guys, on a forum level, for years.

The folks here are good people, one and all. But there is a dedication to the game that borders on fanaticism. And a level of support for Aaron that is truly impressive. These people really believe in Aaron like a holy roller believes in Jesus.

This makes them somewhat ambivalent about criticism. There is a natural tendency to leap to the defense of the game. And because I was an SE4 grognard, there is perhaps a tendency to see it as a betrayal when I criticise the game.

So that's what's up with the alleged hostility. It's not really hostility, it just seems that way. Don't let it bother you.

I commented that the interface sucked so badly, and was so click-intensive, that I'd had to break off doing the turorial because my right wrist started hurting. And you know what? I haven't played the damn thing since.

And really all I've said since then was the same thing.

It may be a great game. I'm not going to find out as long as the interface sucks as badly as it does. I can't be bothered.

capnq and I have gotten a great game of SE4 going at PBW, (which you apparently can't do with SE5).

And so my present attitude toward SE5 is summed up by Rhett's classic line to Scarlett, "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn."

(edit)

Oh yeah, and I still think Aaron really stepped on his **** by going with SF. I cannot escape the nagging suspicion that SE5 would be a better game, and a better successor to SE4, had it come to fruition under the auspices of Shrapnel.

[shinigami]

I think Yimboli has a point. There has been a bit of an undercurrent of hostility towards those critical of the game. Nothing blatant or obvious, and quite frankly, I doubt if any of it is intentional. What I'd like to point out, though, is that it has gone both ways, those who have been critical of the game have treated those who aren't as if we're just a bunch of fanboys blindly supporting the game just because it is Space Empires.

Without getting into the argument of whether or not the game was released too soon, I think that we all can agree that the game could be better and that with the upcoming patches, soon will be.

[Caduceus]

Back on topic - Review from Gamespot
http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/spaceempiresv/index.html?q=space%20empires%20V

Gave it 6.6/10

[Caduceus]

Jeku said:
Do you get upset when you see a coke can in a movie?




"Look at all the *junk food*."
- Bill Murray
"Ghostbusters"

Coke wasn't exactly thrilled with their paid spot.

EDIT - poor spelling

[Fyron]

And because I was an SE4 grognard, there is perhaps a tendency to see it as a betrayal when I criticise the game.

And what about all the criticisms coming from other oldbie SE4 grognards (including beta testers)? Though, admittedly, there probably aren't as many posted on these forums coming from the beta testers, since they've already had their say in the beta (and IRC). But I do see posts from some of them chiming in to agree with others, or add additional complaints, here and there... Why do you think the Balance Mod exists, if people are so deadened to criticism?

I commented that the interface sucked so badly, and was so click-intensive, that I'd had to break off doing the turorial because my right wrist started hurting. And you know what? I haven't played the damn thing since.

I don't play it much either, due to the playability issues (interface is just one of them). It's come a long way in the last few months, but there is still more to do. :-\

Possum said:
I cannot escape the nagging suspicion that SE5 would be a better game, and a better successor to SE4, had it come to fruition under the auspices of Shrapnel.

Neither Shrapnel nor Strategy First had anything to do with the development of SE4 or SE5 (other than hosting beta forums). Both are just publishers, not developers of the games.

[Possum]

/me laughs, shakes head, and goes to DL next turn from PBW

[Yimboli]

shinigami said:
There has been a bit of an undercurrent of hostility towards those critical of the game. Nothing blatant or obvious, and quite frankly, I doubt if any of it is intentional.



That's a good point. I wouldn't characterize any frequenters of the forum as malicious. In hindsight maybe I was just being hypersensitive. Case closed to me.

*gets over it*

Yeah how bout that 6.6? Isn't there another thread for that?

[Fyron]

There is a gamespot review thread, yes.

[Atrocities]

Never mind.

[StarShadow]

Imperator Fyron said:
1. The hostility to those of us who are not thrilled with Se5 is real. I have almost stopped posting here because of it.

Again, I don't really see it... Who is being hostile? Where?



Just a quick example:

posted by RonGianti (in the amazon reciew thread):

Frightlever - You are acting like a real piece of trash. What is up with you people? A game with a couple bugs. you and your cronies come and complain. Fine, point taken. Bugs acknowleged. Patches on the way. Heres a list of work arounds.

But wait! We didn't sympathize enough! Unless people jump on your "lets burn this place down!" band wagon, then people are being "complete dicks"? How the Hell much hand holding do you and your cronies need?

You guys aren't going to be happy until there is a petition against SE5 and the boards close, and all the games are reacalled and Malfador and the developers are out of business because your game crashes and some features aren't available yet. And then, just as AT said, you'll move on and harass someone elses game.


Hostile enough? This post is about the third or so of Ron's that is openly hostile, that I've read since SE5 came out. I've also read posts by others that were either openly hostile, dismissive, or in the vein of 'I'm tired of complaints'. It's a shame too, before SE5 this was such a welcoming community, unfortunately, it doesn't feel that way anymore.

[Fyron]

I don't recall that thread; can you link to it? Ok, so one or two newbies aren't acting like the rest of us... they will smooth over in time, I think.

[StarShadow]

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB23&Number=465123&page=0 &view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=3

[Suicide Junkie]

Be careful to avoid doing the equivalent of say, calling Canadians rude because you met a drunk Elbonian tourist while visiting Alberta.

[Yimboli]

Suicide Junkie said:
Be careful to avoid doing the equivalent of say, calling Canadians rude because you met a drunk Elbonian tourist while visiting Alberta.



what are you trying to say????

[Fyron]

Ah, that thread. Look at frightlever's post; he was, in fact, acting rather poorly. Ron's reply was a bit more heated than necessary, sure, but it was hostility towards a flaming post... It was not in response to a mature, civil complaint, but to hostile flaming. His view point certainly doesn't represent any sort of majority, though.

[Suicide Junkie]

Ok, then blatantly.

Don't take random misbehaving new people to be representative of this forum.

[Yimboli]

sorry bad joke, i was trying to be the typical misinterpreting overreactor to a harmless statement =P

[StarShadow]

I disagree. The first sentence of Ron's post calling fright 'trash' was in response to his, in my opinion, over the top/derogatory remark about you and SJ. The rest of his post has to do with complaints by fright (and others, referenced as 'cronies') about SE5. If this kind of overt hostility is going to be written off as being a little too 'heated', or dismissed because it's a newbie being hostile and not someone with a large post count, than I doubt the much more frequent subtle negativity towards the people who aren't impressed by the current state of the game, will ever be acknowledged. In my opinion this is largely due to willful blindness.

[Fyron]

So much imagined drama... Personally, I'd rather go back to discussing the game.

[President_Elect_Shang]

Wow this is starting to get (ahem) stressful. I think this is the point were I would try to crack some pointless joke that has little to do with the topic. However I doubt even my pointless and dry humor would work. How about this? Let’s all take a little of President Roslin’s advice… someone must be the first to let it go. I left this forum once over the hostile attitude of members. Those members are long gone now. The state of the board is very open and peaceful, but in this matter of who is right and is the game broken I see the starts of another cataclysm.

So, can we just let it go and get back on topic?

[Combat Wombat]

Swiss Cheese?

Oh wait different thread...

[President_Elect_Shang]

Combat Wombat said:
Swiss Cheese?

Oh wait different thread...



I tried Swiss cheese once, but my fingers got stuck in the holes. Still have nightmares about that one. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/redface.gif

[Atrocities]

We all need the understand that no matter what we will always have those days where we say things that we normally wouldn't say. A drunk mans comments are a sober mans secrets may be the common belief, but trust me, they seldom are his reality.

Lets stop beating each other up over our varying levels of dissapointment and anger at the current state of SE V. We can all agree, I hope, that as time goes on the game will improve. Lets leave the past in the past and look toward the future. Otherwise, if the flames and rudeness continue, we may start to see thread being locked. That I do hope never occures, but it will if things continue to be aloud to spiral out of control.

Lets keep a focus on the positives shall we? The game is out, the first 4x game in years, and despite buggish set backs that we all know will be worked out, we at least have our game and its no Phantom Menance.

[Possum]

President_Elect_Shang said:

Combat Wombat said:
Swiss Cheese?

Oh wait different thread...



I tried Swiss cheese once, but my fingers got stuck in the holes. Still have nightmares about that one. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/redface.gif



Be glad it was only your fingers!

[President_Elect_Shang]

Possum said:
Be glad it was only your fingers!



You can't prove that ever happened!!! Did you hear it from that doctor at the ER? He's lying that was just my pinky!

[Suicide Junkie]

Starshadow:
That's exactly my point. Stop blaming US for what new people say. Give them a chance to have their rough edges polished off.
If the heat level is decreasing with time, things will probably end up all right.

[AMF]

OK, so, I spent a lot of time when SE5 first came out being dissappointed with, and griping about, the UI.

I see now that there are a bunch of patches out - and I'm willing to fire up the game again to give it a fair shake.

But before I get up the energy to do that I need to ask: has the UI been improved at all? My primary gripes with it revolved around not being able to see things on the main screen, and the tediousness of the ship design. Have these been addressed at all? I have read through much of the patch history but they're pretty sparse in their descriptions of what the UI changes have been.

Most of the other patch fixes sound great, but there are still some things that I didn't see there - but I am hopeful that MM is fixing them as well...the UI remains my main concern...

Thanks, for any info, in advance.

[Suicide Junkie]

Well, the majority of the tediousness of the design is inherent in the slot layout system... mouse movements between every click is a given.
Using the shift key to place/remove multiple items in a row is critical to your sanity on the design screen. It has been an option all along, but you may not have known about it.
GGmod will also help a lot, once it comes out. Knowing that there is some benefit to the work will alleviate some of the drudgery. (GGmod has directional armor, and internal damage isn't instantly fatal so it matters where you put the armor plates and internals)


The main screen... what things in particular?
For the 3D view, I suggest using high rez, to minimize the UI's footprint and get the most screen area for the actual view. Also, using the angled view and tilting it will essentially compress the vertical extent of the map and allow you to make it fill your screen, more or less.
Definitely get one of the flag-shrinking downloads (thanks to TNZ for that one) (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/download.php?Number=466828) from this forum.

See: http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/uploads/467748-mainscreen.jpg

[Q]

And don't forget that the most flexible UI is your brain!

I was first too quite unhappy with the UI, but the more I play SE V the less problems I have.

As I said already IMO the real limitation is the hardware/computer resources SE V needs in a larger/advanced game. My system (Athlon 3400+, 512MB RAM, Nividia GeForce FX 5500) may not be the newest, but is far above the published system requirements. And in a game at stardate 2412.0 with about 70 systems and 18 empires a game turn processing lasts several minutes. Even changing the system display or some larger lists may take a few seconds. Compared to SE IV this is a huge difference on my computer.

[Santiago]

Suicide Junkie said:



The main screen... what things in particular?
For the 3D view, I suggest using high rez, to minimize the UI's footprint and get the most screen area for the actual view. Also, using the angled view and tilting it will essentially compress the vertical extent of the map and allow you to make it fill your screen, more or less.
Definitely get one of the flag-shrinking downloads (thanks to TNZ for that one) (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/download.php?Number=466828) from this forum.

See: http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/uploads/467748-mainscreen.jpg



On hi rez - many people's pc's don't run the game well. But if you have a small screen or a laptop like I do, there is no way to reduce the UI footprint. It should be made minimizable; ie the button area, info area and map separately. Angling it works to an some extent but its just not suited for my taste.

On another note, the columns for various info such as ships, planets, colonies should be made movable just as in any windows app, so we could fit more when using custom layouts. Since the column width is fixed, there is wasted space I could use to put another selected column into.

[capnq]

Elsemeravin said: Don't you think it could simply be that reasonable people will easily react and add comments to one opinion they agree with, while only read without answering to someone whose opinion they do not agree with.

No, that's the exact opposite of my experience.

People who agree will read a post, nod, and either go to the next post or add a quick "me too". People who disagree will post lengthy rebuttals. People who disagree with the rebuttals will post lengthy counterarguments. The cycle repeats until the subject is beaten to death, and often beyond.

[StarShadow]

Suicide Junkie said:
Starshadow:
That's exactly my point. Stop blaming US for what new people say. Give them a chance to have their rough edges polished off.
If the heat level is decreasing with time, things will probably end up all right.



Define 'US'? On second thought, never mind. As I said before this forum no longer seems to be as welcoming so I'll be on my way. Sorry for the 'drama'.

[shinigami]

Has anyone played around with the HUDSettings.txt file? It would appear that we can put the buttons anywhere we want and change the size of the quadrant map. I guess the question is, can we change the size of the buttons?

[RonGianti]

StarShadow said:

Imperator Fyron said:
1. The hostility to those of us who are not thrilled with Se5 is real. I have almost stopped posting here because of it.

Again, I don't really see it... Who is being hostile? Where?



Just a quick example:

posted by RonGianti (in the amazon reciew thread):

Frightlever - You are acting like a real piece of trash. What is up with you people? A game with a couple bugs. you and your cronies come and complain. Fine, point taken. Bugs acknowleged. Patches on the way. Heres a list of work arounds.

Hostile enough? This post is about the third or so of Ron's that is openly hostile, that I've read since SE5 came out. I've also read posts by others that were either openly hostile, dismissive, or in the vein of 'I'm tired of complaints'. It's a shame too, before SE5 this was such a welcoming community, unfortunately, it doesn't feel that way anymore.



My words were a response to Mr. Frightlever calling AT a "Complete dick". Calling AT a "complete dick" is not complaining about the game.

There are some posted complaints about the game. Most complaints are valid. This game, like all new PC games, has bugs. Unlike other games, many patches are on the way and there are workarounds even now.

A few times now, some users have said they feel like they are not getting a good hearing for their complaints and they are told to "shut up". I don't see this happening. I ask, "where, what?". My question is ignored.

A few posts later, the same person or persons says "no one is listening to my complaints and NOW people are hostile to me" Again, what do you want?

Then someone calls a AT a "complete dick" and somehow we are hostile?

I think it may be time I moved on from here and just played the game. I thought this was a forum for fans of the game, its really not much of that if mods are called "dicks" and I have to explain why I like this game every day.

[Fyron]

StarShadow said:
Define 'US'? On second thought, never mind. As I said before this forum no longer seems to be as welcoming so I'll be on my way. Sorry for the 'drama'.

"US" as in everyone but the tiny minority that has posted stupid things?

[President_Elect_Shang]

Imperator Fyron said:
...as in everyone but the tiny minority that has posted stupid things?



Oh-Oh can I post stupid things; P-L-E-A-S-E? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

I’ll call you big daddy! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif

[Jeku]

"we at least have our game and its no Phantom Menance. "

I love this quote--- thanks for making my morning http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Looking forward to downloading and running the patch tonight. I need my 4x fix!

[AAshbery76]

A new review.
http://pcgames.gwn.com/reviews/gamereview.php/id/1055/

[Atrocities]

No one can deny that the UI needs a LOT of work. Just a few basic improvements would go a hell of a long way toward making the UI a far more functional asset to the player than it currently is. Hell the onset of TABS would have been ideal but we now know that isn't going to happen so we are stuck with what he have and must work within those confines to improve the UI.

I have made several suggestions for the UI to be improved. One was to have information icons like population, cargo, fighters, etc added to the planet ship views. Take a look at my attachment.

[Santiago]

That would be a great idea along with the buttons at the top. I still think the lower UI should be made indpendently minimizable

BTW Lord Atrocities of the Atrocity Empire? Getting the cheat codes ready? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Yimboli]

Atrocities said:
Just a few basic improvements would go a hell of a long way toward making the UI a far more functional asset to the player than it currently is.



YES
We aren't even at the point of diminishing returns with the UI. This is a very important realization! A prudent company owner should see this.

[Atrocities]

Santiago said:
That would be a great idea along with the buttons at the top. I still think the lower UI should be made indpendently minimizable

BTW Lord Atrocities of the Atrocity Empire? Getting the cheat codes ready? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif



You had better believe it! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[kalthalior]

I hesitate to comment without having played V all that much yet, but....I recall the transition between III and IV taking me about 6-8 months before I really felt comfy with IV. I had ALOT of issues with IV, but learned that it was, in many ways, a much different game. Maybe not better, but different. And I believe, in my heart of hearts, that may just be the case for most people making the transition. Anyone who has been here for any length of time knows we will see improvements from Aaron, some more helpful than others.

I may not have as many issues with the UI as others as I use several of the keyboard shortcuts...and have a trackball rather than a regular mouse. And I've played IV to the point of my shoulder cramping from being in one spot all night. (ahh, to be young enough and free enough to play all night again..)

Anyway, I don't play much other than the SE series and some Paradox stuff (EU, HoI, etc). Both communities are (mostly) extremely civil, there is great support, but no one is ever really satisfied, and probably never will be - so get over it, and enjoy the game, or wait and enjoy it later. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Personally, I don't see me taking 6-8 months to make the move over to a majority of my playing time to V. I think I already like V better than I liked IV to start with. Just my 2 cents, for what it's worth. Maybe I'm just too much of a fanman (I'm too old to be a fanboy!) or maybe I just trust Aaron more than I did back then.