What sorts of maps do we need?

[Zen]

Some good MP maps would be non-startcenter maps between the 8-10 player range.

I am also more in favor of a heavily tested spread of indies, especially scout provinces, amazons, terrain.

Your maps are always beautiful, where I usually find problems is with the neighbor paths and the terrain tagging.

I would also like a heavy water map of the 3-5 player style (All 3 water nations, 2-3 land nations) with a creative use of seas and sailing since that adds quite a bit of fun to those unit abilities/nations.

[Gandalf Parker]

The generator does OK.
I will be providing some maximum sized generated maps which most people cant create.

I think that balanced MP maps are needed. Approaching almost a chessboard balance so that no one can claim a "bad position" affected the outcome.

I also think scenario would be good. Have you looked at the MODs that Amos is doing?
Angelic Crusade
Stigian Corruption
Trade Confederation
Blood Elves
The concensus is that they are abit too powerful for competitive play but would make excellent scenario for a challenging opponent and a good storyline.

[Lion69]

How about a port of the Faerun map to Dom 3
that map is simply awesome

[Jason_Lutes]

I've finished up an Early Ages scenario map that's still being tested, and I'm thinking about what sort of map to tackle next.

The main question I have for the Dominions community is, where are the worst gaps in map selection? We have the map generator, of course, but augmenting that with a good selection of custom maps seems like a good idea. With that in mind, what sorts of custom maps would you like to see? What size (number of players, provinces per player) do you feel is most needed?

Any feedback would be appreciated. I'd like to make maps that fill an existing need, so let me know your ideas.

[Morkilus]

I really like the idea of "scenario" type maps, so here's my vote for a late and middle age version! Perhaps with jungles so Machaka, Bandar Log and Mictlan can duke it out.

[BigJMoney]

I definitely want to see Faerun in Doms 3 ASAP, but to answer the original question, I think a scenario-like map with all custom content would be cool.

Custom indies.
Custom magic sites.
Custom indie thugs/SCs (is this possible?)
Custom populations and income/resources levels.

All of the above strategically located and coordinated with terrain types. Not all terrain types need to be used in one map, every time.

=$= Big J Money =%=

[Nerfix]

I'd like to see maps with thematic "kingdoms" of indies that could be taken to the point where they are rudimentary custom nations (ie modded) nations. An indie kingdom would have five provinces, one central province with a castle and all that and four surrounding provinces. They would be very tough to tackle on indie scale but the reward would be a castle and their "starting site". If taken to the point where they are custom nations they could even fight back...

...a less extreme one would simply be a map with a lot of custom content. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif I think there was one a Dom 2 map that took one of the preset maps and made it so that players started with a small "kingdom" that had stuff like pre-found magic sites thematic to the nation and some extra commanders and such....pity I forgot the name of it. It was great fun. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[Gandalf Parker]

I think I mentioned that on my Dom2 site.


An excellent example of a well thought out and designed game is the work of Peter Ebbesen called "Orania the Nasty Edition". Each race has specific starting locations with multiple starting provinces. There are additional castles, commanders assigned, equipment given, troops, and magic sites. All making logical sense within the theme of that nation. If you want to try that game it can be gotten from HERE. The Pros and Cons is while it is a great game to play, it might have a limited replayability factor.


http://pi2r.homepage.dk/dominions2/scenarios/oraniane_1_0.zip

It was part of the concept for my Semi-Random project where I would try to achieve the same thing but done by a program generating randoms within reasonable limits so that it had more replayability.

Its also what I had in mind when I said that someone should create a map scenario around Amos mods. Do what was sone on Nasty Orania but even farther (build the god, pad the opponent, make it really hard to beat)

[PashaDawg]

I would love to see a 2-4 player map for duels and quick games!

Love your maps! Thanks for making them!

Pasha

[PDF]

Hmmm, I'd like 150-some-provinces sized map, good for 6-10 players, and with some "theme", maybe coming with a scripted map. This makes a map more flavorful and unique http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Jason_Lutes]

Thanks for your replies, everyone. If anything else occurs to you, let me know. While I won't be getting in to any heavy modding, I will likely try to make maps that have some theme or flavor elements and specific magic sites in certain places. Looks like a couple of 2-4 player maps and a 6-10 player map will be first on my docket.

[Jason_Lutes]

Gandalf Parker said:
It was part of the concept for my Semi-Random project where I would try to achieve the same thing but done by a program generating randoms within reasonable limits so that it had more replayability.


What's the status of this project, Gandalf? It sounds like a great idea, but it seems like a tall order too.

[Gandalf Parker]

Here is the writeup on it.
http://www.dom2minions.com/SemiRandom.shtml

It wouldnt be too tall an order. I pictured it as a way to get people slightly into mapping and modding by getting them to provide single provinces which were theme-designed. If everyone turned in their designs then some would be simple, some involved, some bad, some great. As long as we ended up with enough of them then the randoms would balance things out (well enough for non-competitive play anyway). Nothing ever happened with it.

To me, a starting point was to go thru all of the monsters and make some judgement calls as to commander, unit, pretender, (allowing for multiples of those), and terrain type, now maybe era also. And things like avian, lizard, flying, cat, bear, wolf. Then I could create something like an avian forest populated with flocks of bird types. Or a special wasteland where a special wolf led a pack of regular wolves.

[Endoperez]

Lots and lots and lots of ideas.

I wanted to do a project that did something similar. It never got far enough, but I might have some of the idea papers left. Any way, all nations (probably of all ages) make good special provinces, lesser summons make good special provinces, better summons make good special provinces, sites with interesting names make good special provinces, rare indep types make good special provinces, etc. After all that, we could start going through the interesting unit types.

[PashaDawg]

Thanks for making such nice maps! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[zepath]

I'd love to see more maps based on real geography, but with obvious fantastic and magical distortions. Such a map based on eastern, central, and southern asia would be awesome.

Someone turned a huge map of the Forgotten Realms into a Dom 2 map and set it up with some powerhouse indies in all the right places. That should be done again.

[Gandalf Parker]

We had one that was a satelite image turned into a map. That was kindof interesting.

[Stryke11]

I like maps that have lots of fun geographical stuff like impassible barriers (mountains, rivers), port cities that can take you many provinces away, lots of choke points, etc. I'm excited to see the thematic maps currently in production. The Faerun (forgotten realms) map for Dom2 was really cool, but it was so big after many turns I got a bit lost in it. Definitely a victory point map http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

The Europa map is also excellent. I am currently in a game as LA Man, and have having a heck of a time against the giants in scandinavia and Ermor in Italy.

Some ideas for maps, and might just only require good scanning skills: Westeros, a la George R.R. Martin. Shannara a la Terry Brooks. These wouldn't work thematically, but neither did Faerun, and it was still awesome. Someone who has the skills could port a lot of the Dom2 maps into Dom3 (I heard they sorta work, but some things were out of whack). A map of California would be fun.

Cradle of Dominion style maps rule all the rest though. Absolute excellently designed map.

[HoneyBadger]

I'd like to see a truly gigantic map (atleast 540 provinces, and more would be welcome) with 90% oceans, just a scattering of islands here and there, maybe a very few minor land-masses, and lots and lots of special sites to keep things interesting. It would be early age only and have only 5 nations-Aboleths, Vanheim, Pale Ones, Basalt Kings, and Triton Kings. I think it would be a challenge for a good map-maker to keep a map that's almost all water interesting, and to create an ocean that has several different environments (deep rifts, shallow seas, impassible coral reefs instead of mountains, arctic waters, hot volcanic vents, sargasso seas, the list goes on, and then all the interesting things that could be done with the islands, like pirates, and cannibals, and giant fetishes, and giant fetishes ruling over cannibalistic pirates.). A lot could be done, mod-wise, with a really good ocean map.

[Endoperez]

540 provinces and 5 nations would leave 100 provinces for everyone. There could well be 10 provinces between all players. MP games on such a map won't work (the turns will slow down to once per 48 hours or so BEFORE players meet each other). A 54 or 108 province map made mostly of water could work.

[Cainehill]

Something that would be really nice would be if map-makers would go through their maps and #nostart most of the provinces, only allowing ones with 4 or more neighbors (of appropriate type - water doesn't help most land nations), and ensuring adequate distance between all start positions.

[HoneyBadger]

48 hour turns...I might get something done...

Actually, Endoperez, I was just thinking single player only, along the lines of Glory of the Gods. A multi-player version would be very nice, but you're right, a 108 province multiplayer would be perfect, possibly a zoomed-in archipelago version that would cut out some of the outlying ocean areas, but feature the land areas in more detail, with more land-provinces resulting.