Reign of the Vampiri

[Amos]

Version 0.27


Added hot fixes for blessing type spells by Dr. Praetorious.

[Amos]

I didnt like the plume on "Maester", so I changed the helm a bit.

[WraithLord]

Only had enough time to glimpse the mod. Its very pretty!
I hope to have time to play test is soon...

[Ighalli]

I looked at the spreadsheet but I've been too busy with the end of the quarter to try it. It looks really cool and I'm going to test it over break! Thanks for producing these mods!

[Amos]

Changed "Ghoul" sprite. Head Hunter's cost changed.

[Tyrant]

I played a bit of a game with this and i liked it. Fun concept,nice art,and decent implementation. Every other mod i have tried except one has been obviously and massively overpowered, but this one seemed ok. Good job and thanks!

[Amos]

Trust me, its overpowered. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif It's just not as noticeable as in my other mods. Head Hunter is a real balance breaker.

[Amos]

Version 0.02

-Minor graphics changes;
-New pretender "Reborn Emperor".

[Amos]

Version 0.03

-Added a unit.

[Amos]

Version 0.04

Fixed a conflict between weapon numbers of "Horror" and "Theran" mods.

[HoneyBadger]

Amos, I didn't find the Headhunter unit itself terribly overpowered, but I could see it being, with certain strategies. if you feel it is, maybe you could redo just that unit and balance everything out? It's a good mod and worth being playable against the "vanilla" nations.

[Amos]

I play mostly against my nations and Ermor. So I need every advantage I can get. Thats one of the reasons I made the Head Hunter. But the main reason for his high blood hunting is that I don't like the micromanaging of it. Two Hunters in a non-profitable province with 0 taxes and my blood needs are satisfied. After all in both Theran and Horror mods the priests cant preach, so you need blood. Head Hunter is not horribly overpowered but if you choose a blood strategy he becomes the main unit.

[HoneyBadger]

Unless I'm wrong, Head Hunter only has 1 blood. That's not so bad, although maybe his cost could be raised to 130 gold to make him a little pricier than EA Abyssia's Warlock Apprentice?

Amos, I really enjoy your mods. Are you planning to do a prequil in the same er vein (no pun intended)? I hope so, as I'd love to see what you'd come up with for an Early Age Nation (since, unless I'm wrong, you've got Horrors for the Middle Era and Vampires for the Late Era). Maybe something based on the inhabitants of Tartarus (undead titans, cyclopes, etc.), just off the top of my head?

Your artwork is excellent, your nations are about as inherantly creepy as anything I'd expect in Dom3 (and considering they're humans, as alien and inhuman as any human nation ever needs to be), and I really enjoy the feeling that there's a lot of "story" going on in these nations, behind the scenes. It's definitely (as far as I know) original too, and very impressive because of that.

Do you happen to have any lengthier backstory I could read?

I'd also like to see the Tetsu when they were still young and in the midst of the other "old clans".

Thanks for all the goodness!

[Amos]

Unless I'm wrong, Head Hunter only has 1 blood. That's not so bad, although maybe his cost could be raised to 130 gold to make him a little pricier than EA Abyssia's Warlock Apprentice?



The Head Hunter has a #douse 3 and #researchbonus -4 so balancing him against a Warlock Apprentice will be a little difficult.


Are you planning to do a prequil in the same er vein (no pun intended)?



I'm trying to finish Nephilim middle era, but I just cant find the time http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif.


Do you happen to have any lengthier backstory I could read?




The narrative and the backstory are all in my head, I'm afraid. But I borrowed the Horrors idea from the same source as the devs of Dom - the "Earth Dawn" series.

[Amos]

Version 0.06

All undead had their cold resistance reduced to 50%.

[Amos]

Version 0.07

A lot of small changes to the sprites.
Head hunter's douse and price reduced.

[Amos]

Version 0.08

-Gave Tetsu chain armor (they were too lightly armored for Late Era) and changed the sprites;
-Lowered prices on most units (they were too high).

[Amos]

Version 0.09

Added a fourth hero (as he gets hurt he gets more powerful versions of berserker);
Tweaked pretender's cost lowered his magic;
Other small changes.

[Amos]

Version 0.10

Lowered natural protection for vampires.

[Shovah32]

Are my knights of the blood rose meant to be unblessable by grand maesters(or anyone for that matter. Even prophetised living commanders cant)? Even without the bless the knights are great but i would love to see them with my e9w9 bless.

[Amos]

It's the "undead cant be blessed" bug. There is a mod fixing that somewhere on this forum.


Changed Rage's armor to Plate Cuirass.

[Amos]

Slight price adjustment:

Tetsu Apprentice 10gp
Tetsu Veteran 13gp
Black Legionnaire 24gp

I believe now its more vanilla friendly.

[Sombre]

Hmm, well I'll mark it as such in the modlist in the near future. I think vanilla balance (or near about) will attract more people to the mod.

[Shovah32]

Im not sure about vanilla balanced, those sacred vampire troops are pretty insane.

[Amos]

This nation was so close to vanilla already there was no reason not to balance it further. Though, vampires are still incredibly powerful when it comes to independents. I cant change their stats without hurting the spirit of the mod. The only thing I can do is play with their price but the change should be within the limits of the formula I use for the rest of the units or I break the inner balance of the mod (meaning, you will only use 1-2 of the units in any given game like you do in vanilla. The more I balance it against vanilla the more I make it so.).

I cant resist my natural tendencies to overpower http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif . So I wouldn't add it to the Mod List as balanced. I wish there was a way of giving vampires disease spreading ability (signifying their feeding on population) without making them unique or ethereal. I gave the troops Harvesters number but I guess it only works on leaders cause it didnt take.


My solution is: I removed natural protection from all vampires, but gave them 50% regeneration.

[Amos]

Version 0.12

I believe this version balances the vampires.

[Sombre]

True that often vanilla favours using 1 or 2 of the elite units (usually sacreds). I try to keep variety in my mods by balancing the units only roughly to vanilla standards, but trying to make the nation overall no more powerful than an average vanilla one. That way you can keep variety but it won't be so easy to roll over vanilla opponents.

[Amos]

Version 0.13

Lowered def,mr and mor on vampire units.

[Amos]

Version 0.14

Changed Vampire(405) and Vampire Lord(404) stats and sprites (I think they look more like vampires now). I'll also change, in a later version, the Vampire Count(1019) and the Blood Marshal(1035).

[Amos]

Version 0.15

-Changed Vampire Count(changed sprites, weapon as well as def, regen and cold res);
-Changed Blood Marshal(Ulm hero's def, regen and cold res);
-Added national spell(True Blood Master has the same sprite as Vampire and True Blood because those are essentially the same unit. If you cast Gift of Reason on True Blood it will become Master. As opposed to those two Vampire doesnt have domsummon. You will need very high dominion to get any True Bloods, thats why the Master has very low blood cost. If you dont count the domsummon he is just a weak commander);
-Thrall's cost is lowered to 9 gp.

[Amos]

Added another unit- Tetsu Applicant.

[Amos]

Version 0.16

Gave all vampires 50% fire vulnerability to show that they cant regenerate wounds inflicted by fire as well as other types of wounds.

[Amos]

Version 0.17

Added offensive blood spell.
Vampire and True Blood fire resist changed to -75.

[Amos]

Version 0.18

-Thrall's changes: mor 18, weapon changed to quarterstaff, cost 0 gp, no longer recruitable but summoned;
-Thrall Berserker mor 18;
-New summoning spell (summons 20 Thralls);
-All leader vampires (even if made so by Gift of Reason) domsummon20 Vampires;
-Vampire heroes (except for Rage) summon Vampires as allies;
-Other changes I cant remember.

[Amos]

Uploaded correct Thrall Berserker sprites.

[Amos]

Version 0.19

Added a fifth hero Red Cardinal (copied unique Belphegor[810]) that lowers dominion but automatically summons 5 Thralls (instead of Belphegors militia) and calls another new unit - the Red Monk. Belphegor is unaffected.
The spell "Create Thralls" obviously costs too much. Its not expected that a player will use it. It's there for a flavor and for AI summoning.

[Sombre]

You could make it so it didn't cost too much though, couldn't you?

[Amos]

You could make it so it didn't cost too much though, couldn't you?



1) No one really uses thralls if they have a choice. Its just a flavor unit.
2) It wouldnt make too much sense if you got 20 Thralls from 5 slaves (I could explain it as a cloning ritual or something but it would feel forced).

[Sombre]

Well you could just say the blood from 5 slaves is used in a ritual to dominate the minds of 20 villagers. Makes as much sense as 36 slaves or whatever to make a vampire.

People use thralls as chaff in the game, or for patrolling. They aren't entirely useless.

[Amos]

Before I changed the cost to 0 in the recent update the cost for the Thralls was 9gp. Most of the Tetsu cost 10gp and they are better armed and armored. Even if you want to use cheap troops for chaff and patrolling, the Tetsu are much better for this role. They dont get rolled over in the first turn by heavy cavalry like Thralls do. IMHO the Thralls are worthless as a unit.

[Amos]

Version 0.20

Ghoul Soldier changed to replace Thralls as chaff. Resource and money costs significantly lowered, mor 20, def 5 and noheal.
Added Death scale requirement to nation's description.

[HoneyBadger]

I was thinking that if you just want interesting chaff, it might be fun to have thralls that, after a certain amount of damage has been done to them, a bat (with slight fear effect) explodes from their chests, where their heart used to be, and attacks.

It would still be a weak unit as a thrall with a pitchfork, and the bat would have like 1 hp and very low stats, but it would be thematically pretty spectacular to see a bloody bat exploding from a thrall's chest-cavity, it my opinion. You could have a somewhat tougher version that metamorphosed into a giant rat or even a wolf or a spider, or one with giant leeches bursting out of the still-living thrall to attack you, or even a high-level one possessed by a nasty demon. Maybe they could be national summons? It would be quite a surprise to attack a group of thralls, expecting to roll right over them, but then suddenly some of them are turning into monsters while others have monsters eating or exploding their way out of their own bodies to attack you.

That would make your basic thrall a really useful, still very weak unit, because it would serve as a camoflage for the more dangerous versions-you'd never know what you might get when you attack that group of thralls.

[Amos]

Added an even more chaff like Ghoul Soldier (9gp 5res).
I dont understand why Quarterstaff is a better weapon than a pitchfork.

HoneyBadger I was planing to use the "bat" idea for a multihero. Would be a shame to use it on chaff.

[HoneyBadger]

Still can! After all, the bat isn't really intended to be a new form as much as a last-ditch kind of shock-tactic.

[HoneyBadger]

It's just an idle thought though-I think it would be neat to have "hidden" units that look like regular, everyday, weak units-if not in your excellent mod, then atleast some mod in the future.

[Amos]

I think it would be neat to have "hidden" units that look like regular, everyday, weak units



I got that in my Nephilim and Stigian mods.

As for bat form I decided to give it to True Blood Master. Otherwise he was just too weak. Now he turns into a giant bat. I'll upload when I'll finish testing.

[Amos]

Version 0.21

-True Blood Master turns into a monstrous Bat when hurt in battle;
-Blood Trap costs 30 slaves.

[Amos]

Changed Bat's sprites.

[Amos]

Changed Bat's attack sprite again. Other small graphical changes.

[Amos]

Version 0.22

Inventory fixed.

[Amos]

Version 0.23

-Some people complained about inability to bless Undead soldiers, so I included Dr. Praetorious' hot fixes for blessing type spells (Dr. if you are against this send me a message);
-Red Monks weapon changed to Magic Staff.

[Amos]

Added another spell "Blood Frenzy".

[Amos]

Version 0.24

Vampires got new armor that costs alot of resources (now some of them cost more than cavalry resource wise) to prevent massing in the early game.

[WraithLord]

Armored Vampires. Sounds scary.

Ahhm, but doesn't sit to well with the image of Dracula in a suit http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Amos]

Didnt you see the movie "Dracula"? He was armored at the beginning http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif.

[lch]

The idea of a vampire dressing up in heavy chainmail in order to feed on some unsuspecting victims sounds a bit... unusual. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Cor2]

Ever played Vampire: Dark Ages?(RPG from White Wolf) fits right in.

[PvK]

There's also Late Ulm's Blood Marshall hero, who is rather awesome in his plate armor, especially if you forge him a helmet...

Might want to compare these guys to his stats for balance considerations, and realize that he's a unique Ulmish hero.

[llamabeast]

I like Vampire: Dark Ages! Well, I've never actually played it, but I've read the book cover to cover.

As chance would have it it's out on my desk right now in fact. White Wolf books are awesome.

[DrPraetorious]

Game balance is a difficult, thorny question - I talked about this some in another thread (and suggested the higher resource costs).

However, I'm not sure that LA Ulm (not generally regarded as a powerhouse of deadly kung fu) is the right standard to judge national power levels.

[Amos]

This mod changes Marshall's stats as well as those of basic vampire, vampire count and vampire lord. I added higher regen and def while removing immortality from basic vampire. I also adjusted resists.

[Amos]

Small changes to sprites for "Tetsu Militia" and "Thrall Berserker".

[Amos]

Version 0.25

- All vampires got darkvision and darkpower;
- Vampires cost more;
- Humans cost less.

[Amos]

Gave pikes in all my mods animalawe 3.

[Amos]

Version 0.26

Added domkill 1 to the nation (no need to set Death scales).

[Loren]

Seems on the powerful side.

Glory of the Gods, about a dozen normal AI's. I have always been #1 (but tied for a few turns) in provinces. There are now no more indies I can get to (Last I saw there were a few left but not where I can go.) and I have about 2 1/2 times as much as anyone else although some of this is luck: I found an AI pinned by bad luck and got all his territory. It would probably be more balanced in MP as the AI doesn't know how to react to the undead.

[Amos]

The vampires are very effective against indies. Did you use "Blood Trap" spell?

[Loren]

The vampires are very effective against indies. Did you use "Blood Trap" spell?

No. I'll be trying again pretty soon, I'll try the vampires.

The world got pretty badly ravaged until I finally empowered enough to take down Ry'leh's Burden of Time spell twice. It was crazy--I was marching over enemy empires and my income was actually falling slightly. They were hurt far worse than I was, though, I was facing almost no opposition and simply marching across his lands. Blood hunting is not very productive anymore.

[Amos]

By "vampires" I meant recruit-ables like knights and guard. With powerful soldiers like that, how powerful do I need to make the summoning of the Vampire Master/Bat for it to be worth it? I'm also considering raising the number of summoned thralls to 50.

[Loren]

Something that doesn't make sense with this race.

It's got a pop-killing dominion and yet it's a blood nation.

[Amos]

The vampires have to eat. The pop-killing dominion isnt that bad if you use Growth scale. And besides, this nation is so powerful that without a few handicaps you would be invincible.

[Loren]

The vampires have to eat. The pop-killing dominion isnt that bad if you use Growth scale. And besides, this nation is so powerful that without a few handicaps you would be invincible.

I'm just saying that it feels inconsistent.

[rdonj]

It's basically like hinnom's pop-eating. Except easier to manage I think.

[HoneyBadger]

I think it's an interesting twist. A blood Nation with pop-eating makes sense for vampires, afterall. It will definitely differentiate them from every other blood-Nation. And it will help avoid the 'Hinnom effect', of having a very powerful Nation that just gets more and more powerful by the end-game.

[Loren]

I've been having bad luck with the game while playing this race.

Once it went off into la-la land while moving, once the game simply vanished during turn generation. I wonder if there is something about it that confuses the game engine.

[Amos]

Play-tested this mod myself many times, and never had any problems. This mod doesnt have anything that could cause the usual problems - like holy pretender.

[Loren]

The Mighty AI's have been driving me nuts.

This race starts slow but becomes unbeatable if it has enough time to act. At the mighty level I'm getting overrun before I have enough vampires.

[Loren]

It looks like I'm going to win against the Mighty AI's--I cut back on the number of AI's a bit and it went better. I've been at war with all my neighbors basically the whole game but I was able to hold them off with assassins (I kept assassins in every province of theirs touching me and kept killing the commanders--while their armies could have walked over my empire they couldn't move because they were leaderless) until the vampire production ramped up enough.

I won't call it won yet because I have now come across C'tis and they outgun me 2-1 but they haven't declared war yet.



A couple of things:

The vampires are described as immortal but they are not. I waited to hit Pangea until I had a candle in the target province because it was going to be a tough battle (*LOTS* of troops had accumulated while my assassins kept killing their leaders.) I lost 1/4 of my army in the strike and nobody showed up in my capital.

The master vampire you get from Blood Trap either shouldn't be able to research or should require a specific "Summon allies" command. As it stands he researches and the vampires pile up. I just completed my research and have over 1200 points/turn.

[Loren]

P.S. I forgot:

Vampire summoning depends on the terrain you are in.

Put a sorcerer to blood hunting in the plans and vampires pile up. In the hills and nothing.

[Amos]

The vampires are described as immortal but they are not. I waited to hit Pangea until I had a candle in the target province because it was going to be a tough battle (*LOTS* of troops had accumulated while my assassins kept killing their leaders.) I lost 1/4 of my army in the strike and nobody showed up in my capital.


You are right. I'll have to fix that.

The master vampire you get from Blood Trap either shouldn't be able to research or should require a specific "Summon allies" command. As it stands he researches and the vampires pile up. I just completed my research and have over 1200 points/turn.

Will higher cost fix this?

[Loren]

The vampires are described as immortal but they are not. I waited to hit Pangea until I had a candle in the target province because it was going to be a tough battle (*LOTS* of troops had accumulated while my assassins kept killing their leaders.) I lost 1/4 of my army in the strike and nobody showed up in my capital.


You are right. I'll have to fix that.

The master vampire you get from Blood Trap either shouldn't be able to research or should require a specific "Summon allies" command. As it stands he researches and the vampires pile up. I just completed my research and have over 1200 points/turn.

Will higher cost fix this?

Could be.

It's now winter of the 11th year, somehow I'm at peace with everyone. The three nations that started near me are now dead and I'm catching up with C'tis--the only real opposition left.

Research is 4300 points per turn--I have them all on research so they don't show up in the army screen while I'm trying to collect the vampires.



Also, did you do something to the vampire lord? I have recruited some, given them skull staffs and am having them recruit more--the intention is to use them as blood hunters. (I've found a 60% off site, makes them a *GOOD* deal!) The problem is that they won't stay on monthly casting. The new vampire lord shows up but the orders are cancelled.

[Gregstrom]

I'd be interested in knowing how many freebie vampires were cropping up per turn at the end.

Giving the vampire master a gold cost might be interesting - there would effectively be a limit to how many you could summon.

[Loren]

I'd be interested in knowing how many freebie vampires were cropping up per turn at the end.

Giving the vampire master a gold cost might be interesting - there would effectively be a limit to how many you could summon.

I think I was up to around 600 from the main group and I don't have a count on the blood hunters (~350 slaves/turn at the peak, declining due to the dominion kill) when I decided I had enough firepower that C'tis was no longer a threat and there was no point in playing it out. I didn't have enough death gems to recruit enough wraithlords to lead them all.

Gold wouldn't have been much of a limit, anyway--my upkeep was under 2000 and I hadn't recruited anything beyond blood hunters for a long time. I forget what my income was up to, something in excess of 20k--I had Gift of Nature's Bounty up.

I was using the vast amounts of gold to make conquest easier--every province I took I put at least PD 80 in. This way I didn't need to worry about maintaining a battle line, each strike group just wandered around taking provinces. The number of provinces that got retaken was very low, doing it this way was faster than a battle line that would keep having to stop to seige castles.

(Strangely enough the AI hardly was interested in globals. For years I had Gift of Health/Gift of Nature's Bounty/Strands of Arcane Power/Wrath of God up, the 5th slot empty. Finally Bogarus started casting The Kindly Ones and I would promptly dispel it. Gift of Health finally got taken out and I didn't bother to replace it as all my fighting was in enemy dominion and there were no enemy mages in my dominion that might feemblemind the guy who cast Strands of Arcane Power.)

I'm now trying it against 8 impossibles. I'm #1 in all but army size and research. Patella somehow severely crippled themselves--when I found them they had 4 provinces to my probably 40. They declared war, I took them down to two but they have expanded back to 4 after my mercs got too weak (going the other direction through indies.) I've got assassins in every one of his provinces but the capital and he's not expanding any more but right now I'm not in a position to finish him off. I'm hoping to pin him in his capital and dom-kill him as I don't feel like taking the casualties I almost certainly would against his pretender.

I have just encountered Tian Chi and Mictlan, no hostilities yet. I'm cursing the random events--an assassin was in the process of taking an indie province. All the commanders were gone, time to attack--oops, I get the province but now it has a castle that I'm sieging!

[Amos]

My girlfriend is in a hospital sick. I'll fix those two issues plus the thrall spell as soon as I'm able.

Also, did you do something to the vampire lord? I have recruited some, given them skull staffs and am having them recruit more--the intention is to use them as blood hunters. (I've found a 60% off site, makes them a *GOOD* deal!) The problem is that they won't stay on monthly casting. The new vampire lord shows up but the orders are cancelled

I added new sprite and:
#maxage 2000
#poisonres 90
#coldres 50
#fireres -50
#darkvision 100
#darkpower 2
#regeneration 50
#domsummon20 405
#def 23

[Loren]

I don't know enough about modding to know if that would mess up it's ability to keep an order.

I fixed some of the immortality problem on my machine. Vs 8 impossible AI's. Two dominion kills so far, I'm at war with two neighbors, at peace with three.

My dominion is eating into Gath's space two levels by now and my dominion down there hasn't spread very well because it's the area I dom-killed Mictlan in not too long ago. On the other side I'm having an awful time pushing my dominion into Marignon. I want a white candle to attack into so I get my vampires back. I picked off one ragged layer of provinces and I haven't managed to push any farther. He's got temples in every province and apparently a strong dominion. The True Bloods are ramping up well, though, I'm now #3 in army size.

I'm probably going to win this.

[Amos]

Version 0.27

- Fixed "immortality" descriptions;
- Added description to vampires who are able to domsummon others;
- "True Blood Vampires" are now able to become Masters if GoRed;
- Raised price on "Blood Trap" spell;
- Lowered price on "Create Thralls" spell and fixed its description to reflect that.

I don't know enough about modding to know if that would mess up it's ability to keep an order.

It shouldnt.

[Amos]

Added the "Summon Vampire Count" spell.

[Loren]

I'm about ready to declare this game won. vs 8 Impossible AI's, it's using your previous version but with the summons that are described as immortal actually being immortal.

It's been going slowly because it's been *VERY* hard to push dominion into my neighbor to the north and I'm only fighting in my own dominion for the immortality.

I finally sent out a dozen assassins with stone idols (I didn't actually assassinate with them) and it cracked his dominion, he's collapsing now. While the edge of my dominion remained fixed in the north I pushed the southern edge across half the map to kill Gath--the vampires always following the dominion line.

I'll try your latest revision, I'm thinking the race is too powerful in SP but probably hopeless in MP because it ramps up slowly.

[PsiSoldier]

Ok, I tested this mod out and on the 3rd turn my capital got attacked by a vampire count independant army with a ton of vampires and thralls. It was enough to wipe out my intial army and everything else I had recruited up to that turn effectively taking me out of the game. That kind of stuff obviously needs to be toned down.

Also it doesnt look like any of your vampires are immortal which takes away any excitement I had had for this mod. So I probably will not investigate further unless you change this in the future. You say you fixed the description for Immortality, but I dont see it at all so I dont know what you meant by that.

[rdonj]

I would venture to guess Amos had nothing to do with that vampire count army attacking you, I'm pretty sure it's a normal random event that he has no control over.

If the maesters of the blood rose were immortal, and the sacreds, the vampiri would be completely unbeatable so I don't think it's going to happen any time soon. They're quite powerful as it is with heavy armor and a significant amount of regeneration.

Though the sacreds don't really offer that much over the blood legionnaires. Giving up a shield for 3 more armor, 2 more hp and 1 more mr really isn't worth it. I'm not quite sure just what bless you'd use to make up for the lack of a shield... they do have a lot les upkeep though.

[Loren]

Ok, I tested this mod out and on the 3rd turn my capital got attacked by a vampire count independant army with a ton of vampires and thralls. It was enough to wipe out my intial army and everything else I had recruited up to that turn effectively taking me out of the game. That kind of stuff obviously needs to be toned down.

I've played several games with the mod and never had anything like this happen. Did you take misfortune??

Also it doesnt look like any of your vampires are immortal which takes away any excitement I had had for this mod. So I probably will not investigate further unless you change this in the future. You say you fixed the description for Immortality, but I dont see it at all so I dont know what you meant by that.

I do agree that they are not (and it was the immortality that made me look at this in the first place) but given my experience with the race that's probably for the best. They would be too powerful otherwise.

The race is a bit slow to start but once you get your blood economy up it's already a very powerful race.

If you're not faced with an immediate threat, cast blood trap. Cast it again. Cast it some more. Then cast blood trap.

For your slaves you get a unit *PER TURN* for the rest of the game. No upkeep, no food. Summon Wraith Lords to lead them so you don't need too big a pile of commanders.

Sure, they aren't the best of units but against anything short of well-prepared mages or SC's quantity has a quality all it's own.

[Amos]

Ok, I tested this mod out and on the 3rd turn my capital got attacked by a vampire count independant army with a ton of vampires and thralls. It was enough to wipe out my intial army and everything else I had recruited up to that turn effectively taking me out of the game. That kind of stuff obviously needs to be toned down.


Nothing to do with the mod - except for the new sprites. It's a regular in-game event.

Also it doesnt look like any of your vampires are immortal which takes away any excitement I had had for this mod. So I probably will not investigate further unless you change this in the future. You say you fixed the description for Immortality, but I dont see it at all so I dont know what you meant by that.

The idea for the mod was to make more "realistic" vampires. Only the most powerful vampires in literature and movies are actually immortal. I removed immortality and replaced it with very high def and regen.
By "fixing the descriptions" I meant that I removed mentioning of immortality, which I forgot to do before.

[Endoperez]

Also it doesnt look like any of your vampires are immortal which takes away any excitement I had had for this mod. So I probably will not investigate further unless you change this in the future. You say you fixed the description for Immortality, but I dont see it at all so I dont know what you meant by that.

Amos' Travelers (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=37327) mod is a nation of immortal fliers. You might want to give that a try, since it might be closer to what you thought this mod would be. They can't recruit any mages but have seducers that might help with that.

[Aezeal]

well I think most set ups for nations of immortals would be pretty unbalanced in longer games why would you even want that.

[rdonj]

Well, in the travelers mod you do get immortals and you can get tons of them. However, they die of old age after only a few years (probably makes them great targets for wind of death) and most of them aren't very good at killing, so they're more like an endless wave of chaff. Some of them do get mind blasts though. All in all I didn't find the immortals themselves to be overpowered, but maybe if I had used more battle magic they would have been (though amos' mods tend to have pretty poor artillery mage potential, and I think that's one of them).

The immortals in llamabeast's tomb kings aren't bad either. They're sacred medium infantry, possibly heavy infantry equivalent for the age, but it takes a lot of work, gold and gems to make very many of them and just building them is not a winning strategy. I should know because llamabeast is proving it to me right now in the warhammerama game :)

[Aezeal]

Well if they die fast anyway you can hardly call them immortal can you :D

and I was talking about a whole nation of really undying immortals :D.

I think immortal units are great for flavor but insisting on a whole nation of them is just too much I'd say.

[rdonj]

This is probably true.

[Aezeal]

rdonj... I said it... so .... why the probably :D

[rdonj]

I meant probably in the affirmative "yes, you're right" sort of sense :)

[Gandalf Parker]

Also it doesnt look like any of your vampires are immortal which takes away any excitement I had had for this mod. So I probably will not investigate further unless you change this in the future. You say you fixed the description for Immortality, but I dont see it at all so I dont know what you meant by that.

I do agree that they are not (and it was the immortality that made me look at this in the first place) but given my experience with the race that's probably for the best. They would be too powerful otherwise.

Too powerful? When we have experts that feel they can beat anything?
Maybe you could add immortality, tweak it to operate well with the AI intelligence, set it up with a great god and scales on a really large map...
then start an MP scenario game. All vs the Reign of the Vampiri.
"the Vampiri have settled into the Carpathian Mountains. They must be rousted before they can consolidate their power base" or something like that. Id be glad to host it.

(just a thought)

[Sombre]

Too powerful? When we have experts that feel they can beat anything?

I'm guessing they aren't referring to their power as a SP AI opponent.

[Gandalf Parker]

Yeah I figured that.
Doesnt mean that cranking them up as "too powerful for balanced play" wont turn them into better AI opponents.

OR we could always ask one of the IRC people to play the nation as a better AI.

[Amos]

I can turn a unit into a "true" immortal with only two commands that have nothing to do with immortality. But what would be the point? An unbeatable unit is no fun.

P.S. I'm working on a new mod now where all of the commanders are unique - which makes them kind of immortal.

[Loren]

I can turn a unit into a "true" immortal with only two commands that have nothing to do with immortality. But what would be the point? An unbeatable unit is no fun.

P.S. I'm working on a new mod now where all of the commanders are unique - which makes them kind of immortal.

Actually, I could see a scenario type situation where fighting a race of totally immortal (in the Dominions sense--if you die you reappear in the capital) units.

Final victory would only be by dominion kill. The struggle would be to push your dominion on them.

[Aezeal]

Hey Gandalf, about that idea you have...

Is it possible to enter a NEW nation during MP and give it troops?

I'd love to have a pre set (and known by all players) special province on a dom 3 (K) map which they can just conquer and get an above average income (high pop) and gems (say 6) income from but where a very very strong race could spawn which would then be a focus for all players to destroy (I'd put it in the middle of the map and all players somewhat around it)

I don't think it can be done but if there are idea's I'd love it.

All map commands won't work I guess so placing them that way won't work (since if I got it correct the map is read at start of the game and then forgotten)
And I don't know a way to enter new nations through mod commands.

[Gandalf Parker]

To avoid hijacking this thread I will answer a short "Yes"
then answer further in one of my threads.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?p=655175#post655175

EDIT: sorry I switched to this one which might be more appropriate
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?p=613939#post613939

[Sombre]

OR we could always ask one of the IRC people to play the nation as a better AI.

What does that even mean? You've never been in the irc channel so what would you even know about "irc people"? :re:

[Gandalf Parker]

Of course I have. And I know that some of the most expert players hang out there. Im thinking some might feel that a higher level game would be available to them if they play the "Sauron" to the entire massed armies of "Middle Earth", so to speak. One expert vs all comers?

Or better yet maybe the entire IRC channel could share the planning and strategy in-channel as a channel project. Anything that might make an alliance of players more than just an option. Make it a necessity.

It was just a suggestion.

[lch]

Or better yet maybe the entire IRC channel could share the planning and strategy in-channel as a channel project. Anything that might make an alliance of players more than just an option. Make it a necessity.

It was just a suggestion.
I know that the IRC channel seems to be a pet peeve of yours for some reason, but honestly trying to get it to make a combined effort for doing something is highly improbable. Metaphorically speaking, it's like raising a litter of kittens, at best. The idea that there's some body that can be motivated to act together apart from independent actions is pretty alien to reality. I think that not long ago you wrote that the IRC channel suffers from lack of activity and "zombies", too, so it's surprising that said zombies should suddenly develop high activity for something?

Trying to get "the IRC people" to do something, just by coming up with some random idea and then telling the monkey to carry through with it seems a little feeble, too. To throw the ball back, "they" might ask you to carry through with your random proposals and see through that they are viable and being realized yourself... ;) like Sombre occasionally tends to do for the usual suspects that post their brainfarts here and then leave it up to others to pick up the pieces and actually do something with them.

:cheers:

[Aezeal]

lets get back to the vampires and if this needs to be continued do it in Gandalfs thread.

I'm trying to find an excuse for vampires in space.. but it's hard (space helmets would be terribly annoying for biting someone in the neck.. both for the vampire as the attackee) .. so I'm dropping it... for now

[lch]

lets get back to the vampires and if this needs to be continued do it in Gandalfs thread.

I'm trying to find an excuse for vampires in space..
"Let's get back to this thread and talk about my own Dom3k mod some more", yeah, got it. :p

[einenarre]

I get the error "name2spell: no such spell!" when I try to start a game with this mod active.

[Amos]

All of the spells in the mod were tested and tested again. Are you sure thats the only mod you are starting with?

I'll test the spells again of course in case a mistake was made while updating.

[PsiSoldier]

The immortals in llamabeast's tomb kings aren't bad either. They're sacred medium infantry, possibly heavy infantry equivalent for the age, but it takes a lot of work, gold and gems to make very many of them and just building them is not a winning strategy. I should know because llamabeast is proving it to me right now in the warhammerama game :)

Yeah I have tried llamabeasts tomb kings and I thought it was pretty cool and I really didnt find the immortality to be that overpowering. I didnt play a full game with it though, just enough to get a feel for it.

[PsiSoldier]

The idea for the mod was to make more "realistic" vampires. Only the most powerful vampires in literature and movies are actually immortal. I removed immortality and replaced it with very high def and regen.
By "fixing the descriptions" I meant that I removed mentioning of immortality, which I forgot to do before.

I could go for that, but I think your mod should have at least one recruitable immortal vampire, just tweak the cost for him or maybe lower some of his stats. In the end people would likely switch to blood hunting and summoning immortals anyways assuming you haven't altered the standards summon spells, but it would be nice to be able to recruit some immortals in the beginning, just consider them to be your "most powerful vampires in literature and movies". And they could also be capital only too which would help with balance some too.

Also I guess I need to take another look at this mod again anyways because I dont think I ever tried any of your national spells which I need to give a shot. Plus from what I read in one of the replies to my earlier post it was appearantly not really the mods fault that my capital was attacked by a vampire count on the 3rd turn. Although I must say the only time I have ever been attacked by a vampire count was in this Mod and the only other time I have seen one attack someone was when one attacked LA Ulm in Procyon and Ulm also has a bit of a thing for vampires Maybe thats just coincidence though,I dunno.

[rdonj]

I had ~100 immortals at the end of the game when I lost, llama kept spamming rain of stones at them and they just weren't quite durable enough to take the hammering even with a strong astral/water bless. So he drove me back to my capitol and they were finally destroyed. Losing that many mage turns to summon them really does limit their overall effectiveness. Llama was just so far ahead of me magically speaking I had no good counters in the end.

[llamabeast]

Yeah, they scared me sufficiently that I avoided fair fights with you while crushing your dominion. So I guess they were pretty effective (in fair fights I would have been in real trouble) but not uncounterable, which I think is good. :)

[Amos]

PsiSoldier all heroes are immortal.