Ulm Reborn v.1.7b - Updated 14th June 2009

[Sombre]

PREVIEW IMAGE.

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/uploads/540895-Ulm%20Reborn%20national%20preview.png


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Summary: A New LA nation which thematically replaces Ulm, Black Forest but can now be played alongside it. The malediction is replaced by a miraculous event, the Aufklarung (enlightenment). Ulm turns away from encroaching evil and the Iron Faith becomes the focus of the nation. Includes 3 national summons and 1 new priest spell.

Strengths:
1. Powerful priests, extra holy magic and great preaching
2. Numerous sacreds suited to different bless strats
3. Magical diversity via summonable casters
4. Black Priests may spawn hordes of free penitent
5. Drain immune White Priest/Acolyte

Weaknesses:
1. Recruitable paths restricted to earth and minor astral
2. Resource and capital centric nation
3. Lacks light or missile troops
4. Slow moving armies
5. Vulnerable to battle magic

-----------------------------------------


-- version 1.7

-- TWEAK - Sturmheld and Sternheld now H1 priests

-- TWEAK - White Priests no longer martial leaders

-- FIX - Fixed Host of Aufklarung cost

-- TWEAK - Gave Black Steel Helmet and Black Steel Kite Shield to appropriate commanders

-- TWEAK - Added the CBM Warhorse hoof and used it for cavalry units instead of hoof. I agree with that CBM change and want to unify this vanilla mod and the CBM version

-- TWEAK - Removed armour piercing from spirit Hammers and reduced damage, making them useful almost only against demons and undead, which is fine

-- TWEAK - Removed some of the copystatting



--- version 1.6

-- FIX - Gave Reborn Lord a helment

-- TWEAK - Increased precision for punish the unjust spell


UPDATE TO 1.5 for 3.15 basegame

This update doesn't add much in the way of content, it just brings Ulm Reborn up to date with 3.15 and the changes made to regular MA and LA Ulm. I think 1.6 might not be far away if people come to the thread with suggestions. It's basically a finished nation though.

-- Several changes to descriptions and flavour, based on 3.15 update to MA and LA Ulm

-- Checked for conflicts against CBM1.21, LA Jomon Broken

-- White Priests no longer attract penitent

-- Black Priests given more chance of E2, differentiated from regular Ulm Black Priests a bit, no forgebonus here

-- Neugeboren Lord and troops stats tweaked, given new White Halberd weapon, a counterpart to the new Guardians of MA Ulm

-- Forgebonus of white priests up to 15, same as black priests of LA Ulm

-- Hoch-Hammer leadership reduced

-- Production bonus in all forts reduced to 20%

-- Stern/Sturmheld get better mr

-- Sturmheld only summonable by H4, ie prophet

-- An extra gem for 4 gems standard LA starting income

-- Sternkind get plate cuirass armour

-- Added new Host of the Aufklarung mass Sternkind summon

-- Changed White Hammer into more of a holy weapon

-- Reduced black zwei gcost to 14

[Shovah32]

Seems different. The fact that their best priest is holy 2, they only have 1 path of magic(earth, goes to level 3), that they only have 4 good units(all high resource cost, 3 are sacred) and no starting gem income seems a little weak.

The theme is pretty nice and i can see some blesses(e9n4 maybe) working very well.

[Sombre]

Their best priest should be H3. Capitol only white priest. If not that's my error.

The balance isn't even vaguely final. I just thought I'd get a download out for people so they can get in on the creation of the nation. If a unit seems under/overpowered let me know and I'll make changes.

I think I messed up on the starting gem income. I thought I'd given them some earth. But yeah, they're going to be a priest/bless nation. They also spawn quite a lot of sacred penitents which are more powerful versions of flagellents.

[Shovah32]

I thought they spawned something but never checked. THe E3 Guy is holy2 but i actually guessed he was meant to be holy3(they have another holy2 priest so...). I'll playtest in about 2 hours.

[Sombre]

Doh, I guess I didn't save changes the last time I was editing the dm. Fixed a couple of errors (such as the priest and gem income) and I'll upload v0.35 momentarily.

[SlipperyJim]

Nuts! I had already started a game with v0.3! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

I'll interrupt my current game to give this one a whirl. It should be interesting. Thanks, Sombre! :-D

[Sombre]

No problem. I wouldn't go for a long drawn out game with the nation because they're still going through balancing changes, getting new units etc. Of course a lot of those will work with a saved game from an old version, but some of it might well require you to start over.

Thanks for playtesting. I look forward to your comments.

[Shovah32]

Since blesses are expensive AND their sacreds need good scales how about a bunch of national summons(just an idea)?

[SlipperyJim]

Sombre said:
No problem. I wouldn't go for a long drawn out game with the nation because they're still going through balancing changes, getting new units etc. Of course a lot of those will work with a saved game from an old version, but some of it might well require you to start over.

Thanks for playtesting. I look forward to your comments.


Okay, here's the quick-and-dirty review of v0.35....

I created a quick game on the Silent Seas (wraparound) map. For speed & simplicity, I selected one Easy Defensive AI opponent: Desert Tombs C'tis. I wasn't looking for a challenge here; I just wanted to try out the mod.

Pretender Design: Since I have all of these yummy sacred units, I wanted a good bless. But Ulm also requires good scales. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/confused.gif I chose an imprisoned N9E5 Great Mother. Regenerating Berserker Guardians? Yes, please! Scales were Order 3, Productivity 3, Growth 1, and Drain 3. Extra points went into dominion strength.

(No, I haven't even attempted any magical research yet. Black steel all the way!)

In no particular order, here are my thoughts:
Sacred Guardians and Black Knights rock hard. Oh, yes....
As usual, Ulm is resource-starved. This problem is made even worse by the lousy 5-Admin fort that you get at the capital. Building up a decent Ulmish army takes a long time with 5 Admin and only three border provinces.
The killer priest-power is very very nice. White Priests are very good, indeed.
But they're old. I guess that's thematic -- it seems that nearly every LA nation has old mages & priests -- but it sure is inconvenient.
The freespawn Penitents aren't killer, but they can still be quite useful. And they're free! What's not to like?
Oh, that's what. For some reason, all of my Penitents appeared with a random affliction. Is there any particular reason for that?
The Black Acolyte doesn't seem to be very useful. I might as well recruit a Black Priest instead.

So, with that in mind, here are a few things I'd change:
Maybe add some random F1 to some of the mages? Fire works very well with the theme. Just look at Marignon.... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif
Please give Ulm a decent fort, especially at the capitol. Massive resource costs + low Admin values = very very slow recruiting.
Maybe the Black Acolyte could be stealthy? Stealth preaching seems thematic, and it would give me a reason to recruit them.
Take away the Penitents' afflictions, unless there's a particular reason to have them. If so, please explain it to the player.
Speaking about the Penitents: Stop the freespawning. Instead, how about a Summon Allies command?
Finally, maybe some (or all) of the mages could be Drain-immune like the MA Ulm smiths? Drain seems very thematic for Iron Faith Ulm, and it gives the player a way to recover some of the insane points that he'll spend on Productivity and blessings...
My overall impression of the theme is very positive. Iron Faith Ulm looks like it could be a lot more fun than Black Forest Ulm. Please take all of my ideas as suggestions, not complaints.

Thanks for doing this! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif I've attached my save file, just in case anyone else wants to look at it.

[Sombre]

- Well marignon is all about purging sinners with fire - they are based on the myth of witch burning and the actions of the catholic inquisition. Ulm Reborn does have an inquisition of sorts, but it's more the kind where,... well,... they lock you up in walking armour and brainwash you. I don't want to give them fire on the mage priests, but I could give them national summon access to fire. Maybe some forge based stuff.

- I thought the starting fort would be the same as LA Ulm's but I guess that got cleared. I find the fort type bit of modding pretty confusing to be honest.. but I'll give them a better starting fort. As for the forts they should build in other places, like forest etc - I'd love suggestions (with the fort type numbers if possible).

- Right now the Black Acolyte is just a cheap way of ferrying troops and they're the only priest that isn't cap only. You're right they're much worse than the black priests (their domsummon is much less frequent) - I'll make them very cheap and stealthy sounds good too.

- The penitent's afflictions are a leftover from the flagellents that they're based on. It wasn't intended and I'll fix it.

- For now I like the freespawning. It frees up the priests to preach and do priesty things. It also encourages dom strength. I'll see in the future if it's too random though.

- They might also have lost Ulm's 20(25?)% prod bonus in all forts. Either way, they're getting a resource boost in the update. They are a cap dwelling nation (their recruitment screen is more than halved outside the cap) so they need it to crank out resources to make up for bad start positions and so on.

- Because there's no mod command for immunity to drain I'd have to copystats something that already had it. That something wouldn't have inquisition bonus and might have other stuff we don't want like armour and weapons. I'll look into getting drain immunity on the white priest and he'll lose the inquisition bonus. It might not be possible to get it right though.

- All 'white' units are getting max age boosts to represent their new lease on life.

Your comments are very helpful, particularly the way you set them out. I'd love to hear more like that.

[Sombre]

Ok v0.4 is another balance fixer with no new content. The position should be a bit stronger now thanks to better fort setup, non-old white priests unaffected by drain and numerous other tweaks.

[Shovah32]

Apart from national summons(which are hard to balance impliment and invent) you made basically all the changes i want.

Do pentients cost upkeep? I relied purely on sacred troops and mages but got a high upkeep quickly so im not sure. For the white mage guy would a minor(im thinking maybe 10%) forge bonus be unthematic? I just feel it would help(and you have some very thuggable commanders).

My biggest problem is probably that any bless that works well with your recruitables(with the exception of n9 imo) dosnt really help pentients - they like fire, water, death, astral and blood due to their survivability problems and 2 attacks where-as your sacreds(although fire and water also help your expensive capitol only cavalry) like earth, nature and maybe a minor astral bless.

One strategy I like:
Imprisoned Cyclops
Earth9(it is amazing on your high prot sacreds)N9(berserk is good and the regen on 30health guardian commanders is nice)
Dominion 4(can be increased with temples and early on you cant make many sacreds)
order3,prod3,death2,cold2,misfortune2,drain3

The cyclops is a nice combatant when he breaks out(29 prot and insane regen when he casts personal regen), even with so many negative scales you have 13% more income and 30% more resources than base scales.

Your sacreds, with their god-like protection(anchorites and templar have 24 head 25 body where-as neugeboren guard have 24 head 27 body. Your capitol churns out mages, guards and templars as recuired and your forts produce acolytes, anchorites and black zweihanders.

Your hochmeisters(better defence and more attacks) and neugeboren lords(better prot and health, fear, standard, can wear boots) can make great thugs.


One suggestion i would make for the mod is adding a 50% random for earth/astral and another 10% random for astral to white priests.

[Sombre]

Ok v0.4 is going up now. I actually had it done last time I posted but forgot to upload it. Doh.

One new thing that I've put in is awe (0) on the Neugeboren Lord (and on the white priest, but who cares about that?). At 300 gold he isn't going to be overpowering or anything - it just reinforces that the Lords are real badasses. And yeah, he makes a good thug. I was actually able to thug them up very early in a test game due to all the earth magic.

Oh and the drain immune white priest is in there.

I think adding astral to the white priests might well happen in the future. I'm very tempted to make a new kind of priests so you can go a very heavy penitent route with the nation if you want. Something like an H1 no magic priest with high leadership who spawns many penitent but really doesn't do much else. Black shepherd maybe?

[Sombre]

Ok after some thinking,... the white priests are getting one astral each. This is primarily to allow them to cast thew two national summons,..

One summons 5 Sternkind - These are sort of ulmish angels. They can fly, have hammers and are sacred. They whomp a fair bit of ***, but cost astral pearls, which ulm reborn doesn't have in abundance. They can only be cast by white priests (req S1 H3).

The other summons one Sternheld commander unit - A more powerful sternkind that could be a good thug. On top of that it has A1 F1. Both units have tasty holy hammers.

I've also given level 1 ulm priests the spell healing light for free and level 2 priests will get a form of wind guide to make those crossbows more useful - hopefully i can get it to be neagted by anything but low MR, similar to the LA Ulm national spell for E3 (i forget the name).

I'm also working on a grand hochmeister leader (possibly hero) but I'm having a lot of trouble getting the templar graphic extracted so I can modify it. I made one that looked pretty good but it was sized wrong becuase I have to do that mostly by eye.

[Shovah32]

Is there a reason pentients only have fists in the most current version?

[Sombre]

Probably because I forgot to give them a weapon. It seems like I'm doomed to miss countless little errors with releases of this nation. Probably because I haven't had time to playtest them much at all.

-sigh-

New version will be up tomorrow or the day after. In the meantime I suggest going into the dm file and giving them a flail.

The new version will feature the badass Hochhammer leader, who carries an incredibly powerful divine hammer and has what I think are the best graphics I've done so far. He'll be expensive and have zero magic/priest powers, but he'll make a scary thug commander and have some other nice abilities. I'm tempted to make him a hero, but I want to show off the graphic in the main lineup and I know Ulm Reborn doesn't really like to take luck domain.

After that release I'm going back to work on all 3 released mods at once; I want to get them all to a 'final' version. That means lots of actually playing the game and enjoying other people's mods too (updating modlist in the process).

[Shovah32]

Sounds good, sombre.

[SlipperyJim]

Looks good, Sombre. I'll try it out this evening and send you some more feedback.

[Sombre]

Release tomorrow probably. You get national summon troops (sternkind) and national summon leader (sternheld) with new graphics, as well as the hochhammer.

I've run into a lot of bugs ith modding commands trying to get this stuff working. Contrary to what I was expecting, this has turned out to be the hardest nation to mod so far.

For example - Copyspell doesn't work, aoe on weapons doesn't work, secondaryeffectalways doesn't seem to work properly,.. etc.

[SlipperyJim]

Okay, I played another quick game with v0.4. Here are some more thoughts:
The Penitent is not sacred anymore. (He also doesn't have a weapon, but you knew that.)
Stealthy Black Advocates are very cool indeed.
Reborn Lords are fantastic thugs. N9E9 bless makes them even better.
Bless me? Bless you!
The Fortified City is a welcome addition to the capital. Now I can start cranking those lovely Black Templars and Reborn Guardians off of the assembly line in a reasonable period of time.
The White Priests don't have any Sorcery magic yet. I'm figuring that this will happen in the new release, but I wanted to make sure you knew about it.

I love your description of the national summons. Mighty angels with the Hammer of Truth is a great fit for the Iron Faith. I also agree with your decision to add Sorcery instead of Fire magic. There's no need to steal Marignon's thunder....

I'm a modding doofus, but I think I can read some of the .dm file:
<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>#startfort 3
#swampfort 11</pre><hr />
Those lines specify that Ulm will get the Fortified City at the capital and a zero-admin Swamp Fort in the swamp, correct? (Lesson for the day: Don't build a castle in the swamp.)

Suggestions for other forts:
Farmlands: 30-admin Castle (#41)
Forest: 20-admin Forest Castle (#35)
Hills: 20-admin Mountain Citadel (#9)
Other: 20-admin Motte-and-Bailey (#7)

What I really like about this mod is the abundance of tough choices. The combination of high-resource Ulmish units and strong blessing potential makes the player choose carefully when starting the game. Do I go for good scales and a decent blessing, or do I sacrifice scales for a great blessing? And which blessing(s) do I pick? And what about adding magical diversity? You don't have enough points to do everything you want, so you have to choose very carefully.

Great mod, Sombre! I'm looking forward to the next release! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

[Sombre]

That's another very helpful response. I especially appreciate you finding the numbers for the forts - I'll add it in just as you posted (I really suck at forts for my mod nations for some reason - I either forget them or enter the wrong numbers).

The penitent is sacred, disease free, flail armed and just as throwaway and swarmy as ever in v.05. I'm actually a bit suspicious of whether domsummon works the way I thought it did (does the white priest attract more than the black priest?). Maybe something to balance and alter for 0.6?

White Priests get S1 in 0.5

The national summons are a bit odd. They're not super powerful, nor are they that expensive and they don't require researching. They're more like extra units in the regular Ulm lineup that you can get (possibly via alchemy) once you have a gem income. The Sternheld has A3 S1, so he opens up a lot of magical options for Ulm (possibly a bit strong actually). They are sacred undead, so I think I'll put in the doctor's bless fix (so you can bless undead).

In 0.5 there are two priest spells - one healing at H1, one lightning bolt (sort of) at H2 - I'm not sure how balanced they are since you don't need to research them but they didn't seem awesome in testing, just a nice addition.

0.5 will be up tomorrow for sure. For now I've attached a graphic preview (also good for people who are considering trying the mod out). I've gone for a fairly unified graphic feel to the whole mod.

[Sombre]

0.5 is up. I think the national summons might not be balanced and the hoch hammer might need to be cheaper and less of a killing machine. I had 4 of them in one squad last game and they racked up a crapload of kills.

0.6 will be balancing changes, maybe add a national hero or two. I might add a penitent farming 'Black Shepherd' commander, or he might be one of the aformentioned national heroes. If you think the nation could really do with something or needs a balancing change please do chime in.

Happy blessings and may the Aufklarung reward ye.

[Sombre]

I'm sticking up v0.6 earlier than anticipated because I found various bugs in playtesting that were pissing me off. I'm hoping there should be less of a tide of penitent in this version, because I've figured out that domsummon didn't work the way I thought it did. In v0.5 you could amass a silly number of them.

Also added a penitent spawning national hero 'The Grey Shepherd'.

[SlipperyJim]

Sombre said:
I'm sticking up v0.6 earlier than anticipated because I found various bugs in playtesting that were pissing me off....


The attachment for the first post is still v0.6. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/confused.gif

[Sombre]

Did you mean 'still 0.5' ?

It's 0.6 now. I was having trouble uploading.

[SlipperyJim]

Sombre said:
Did you mean 'still 0.5' ?

It's 0.6 now. I was having trouble uploading.



Ummm ... yeah. That's what I meant. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/redface.gif

I started another test game with v0.6. This time, I picked an imprisoned Oracle with E9S4N4 and five candles. Scales were Order 1, Productivity 3, Cold 1, Growth 1, Luck 1, and Drain 3. As before, I picked the Silent Seas wraparound map and one Easy AI opponent.

More thoughts:
I really like the two new Holy battle spells. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif Smite the unbelievers! Heal the faithful!
I love the new national summoning spells, but I think they might be a bit overpowered at Level 0. That much oomph should require a little research first. Perhaps they should be Conjuration 4 or 5?
Sternheld make great archers. A lucky random event gave me a Storm Bow, which I promptly gave to my Sternheld. ZOT!
Hoch-Hammers are extremely impressive, especially if you prophetize one of them. Actually, I'm worried that they might be a bit overpowered. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/fear.gif However, those killer hammers only get two shots, and then they're basically just overpriced Hochmeisters....
I really like the division that you made between the three priest commanders. Each one has his own role now. Black Acolytes for stealthy preaching, Black Priests for summoning hordes of chaff, and White Priests for Divine Blessing &amp; magic support.
Speaking of hordes of chaff ... three or four Black Priests accompanying your army make for a neverending supply of free Penitents.

Pretender suggestions:
Please make the Forge Lord (id #1230) an available pretender for Ulm Reborn. Forging &amp; Ulm go together like coffee &amp; donuts!
The Divine Glyph (id #1025) and/or the Sacred Statue (id #472) might also be thematic.
The Scorpion King (id #655) might not be thematic, but he'd sure be a great chassis for a killer F9E9 bless. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Iron Faith Ulm is really shaping up to be a great nation. You've done an excellent job in keeping the theme, while still making a nation with some interesting playability and potential.

You win a medal! /threads/images/Graemlins/icon44.gif

[Sombre]

The reason the summons got lvl 0 was to make them more like additional holy spells. I put them in the conjuration school rather than divine so that they'd be easier for people to spot. I could raise them up a couple of levels, but I'm not going to put them too high up because Ulm Reborn isn't exactly flash when it comes to researching and the summons aren't exactly superpowered (although the sternheld is a pretty impressive mage considering).

I really don't want to make an overpowered nation,.. at the moment I see the potential problems as the hoch-hammer, the sternheld and the domspawning. I don't want to swap the domspawning for #summon or call allies if I can help it, but the problem is I can only give the priests domsummon, domsummon2 (half as effective) or domsummon20 (a twentieth as effective). Domsummon20 is useless for penitent, but it seems domsummon2 might be too much (right now the white priests have domsummon2 and the blacks have domsummon2 and summon1. I think what I'll do for now is give the blacks domsummon2 with no extra summon and the whites summon1 or summon2.

I like to use summon or domsummon because the AI does better with it than call allies.

The hoch-hammer does initially seem like it might be overpowered, but for 400 it's not /that/ good. If you get a group of them together they can give low morale armies a real shock and of course they tear through undead like crazy,.. but I don't want to nerf em. They're a fun unit after all. I'm tempted to give them only one ammo for the spirit hammers and reduce their cost to 350 or so.

I'll sort some pretender options out in the next version for sure. Maybe even make a new one. That's probably a little while away though - I want to let the balance sit on this one for s bit, see what's what and work on the other two mods (both near final).

One thing that I've decided while making this mod and vaettihiem SE is that nations based on or replacing vanilla sides are just as interesting, if not more so, than completely new concept, art etc mod nations (like my first, Avernum).

[SlipperyJim]

I'm not calling it overpowered. Please don't think that! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Ulm Reborn v0.6 is powerful. It combines traditional Ulmish strength with some powerful priests and sacred units. Several of the recruitable commanders are very thuggy. Free Penitents can be very nice -- even though they're not great units -- because they're free. The additional Holy spells are just icing on the cake.

Then again, Ulm still has its limitations:
Lack of magic flexibility. The White Priests are strong in Earth magic with a smattering of Astral. The Sternheld can use Air magic. And ... um ... that's it. Any other magic schools will have to come from the pretender and/or independents.
Resource-heavy units. Those Reborn Guardians and Black Templars are really nice, but you can only crank out so many of them per turn.
The best units are capitol-only.
The almost-mandatory Drain dominion (to give you enough points for other cool stuff) will seriously hinder your magic research. No easy access to research boosters (especially Skull Mentors) will make your research even slower.
Unless you're making an all-cavalry army (and how many resources would that need?), you'll be limited to a strategic move of one. All of that armour makes Ulm slow....

So, yeah, please take my posts as compliments. I really like Ulm Reborn, and I'm only trying to help. If I'm annoying you, please feel free to ignore me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Sombre]

No your responses have been very helpful. Far from annoying. In fact I'd like more people to chime in with opinions on mods, even if it's to say "This is horribly overpowered" or "This unit is thematically dodgy and not worth the gold". There's a perception that mod nations are all hugely overpowered and I think it's generally better to be cautious - after all if most people just use them for single player they probably wouldn't mind an extra bit of challenge.

Re: Drain. White priests are drain immune (I hope) which makes the drain scale less of a,.. well,.. a drain. Plus magic research isn't as important with UR as sheer priest and troops power. At least until late in the game.

One thing Ulm Reborn does do as advertised is crack unbeliever skulls. For a human nation they have really, really heavy guys, including thuggy commanders. There's nothing they like better than just slugging it out and slowly grinding through enemy territory. Free penitent (although they cost a lot of upkeep for spawns) and very survivable troops means once the juggernaut starts moving it's very hard to stop.

[BandarLover]

I like this mod, a lot Sombre. I don't really have anything to add or suggest to make it better. And I do like all the penitents, personally. Making more appear the stronger your dominion seems to fit as well. The stronger your god, the greater the pull to attract those who are fanatical for your cause. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Hoch-hammers are great too. Maybe make their hammer a one hit wonder, kinda like a lance maybe.

That's pretty much it. Keep up the good work.

[Sombre]

Thanks :]

Check out vaettihiem and Avernum if you have time. They'll get new versions fairly soon (minor update to vaetti, national summons for Avernum).

[Sombre]

I'm bumping this because I'm going to update it to the latest version tomorrow. There will also be updates to the CBM nations I made.

Biggest change will be that the nation will no longer overwrite Ulm Black Forest. Instead it will be titled 'New Ulm' and act seperately. It will include various fixes and maybe a new sternheld national hero.

[BandarLover]

This is just a symantics issue, so feel free to ignore me. I kinda' like the mod staying named Ulm Reborn. It would fit thematically, with the original Ulm having fallen to the dark side. Your nation can be the remnants that got out before the fall and began rebuilding anew. Like the Numenorians in the Silmarillion. I'm such a nerd. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Sombre]

Yeah thematically it's still being a replacement. I mean playing with Ulm Reborn and Ulm at the same time doesn't make much sense 'story wise'. But in terms of gameplay and compatbility with other mods and for playtesting purposes it's much better to have it as a seperate nation. You avoid having the national summons and spells from the old Ulm, for instance.

In the end, you still have the choice of using Ulm Reborn instead of Ulm. It's just not automatic.

[BandarLover]

Oh, I understand they'll both be playable. I just like Ulm Reborn instead of New Ulm. Like I said, it's just symantics. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Sombre]

Semantics, yar. Well they'll actually be called 'New Ulm, Iron Faith Reborn' in much the same way the Jomon Broken is called 'New Jomon, Broken Swords'.

[BandarLover]

Ahh...best of both worlds. Let's totally ignore the last three posts. *Walks away non-chalantly whistling*

[Sombre]

Heh. Well don't ignore this post, because it's telling you that the new version 0.8 is attached (or will be in 3 minutes or so).

It includes balancing changes, graphical tidying up of a couple of units (notably the geboren) and a new national summon, the Sturmheld, who is A3F2. The Sternheld is now A2S2. The Sturmheld is also a multihero, giving you a little bit more variety.

And most importantly the nation is no longer a replacement, but stands on its own. That means you'll have to make new games to play it.

[Sombre]

God damnit.

I somehow managed to lose the pikemen in this new version. Or maybe I forgot to ever make them recruitable? Regardless, version 0.85 is attached and sorts this out. It also temporarily gets rid of 'reward the faithful' because it wasn't working properly and my white priests keep spamming it instead of casting blade wind and smite. Pretty annoying.

So yeah, attached to the first post is 0.85. Don't bother getting it if you don't care about missing pikemen and a dodgy healing spell staying in ;]

[Sombre]

AARGH.

I messed up the 0.85 update. Anyone who downloaded it should get the 0.86 attached to first post instead. Otherwise they'll still have the cruddy healing spell and furthermore the pike graphic will be messed up.

Sorry guys. Anyway, it's fixed now.

[llamabeast]

I've just been having a quick look at this, it looks awesome. I'm going to spend more time on it later, but for the moment here's a couple of quick comments.

- Super pedantically: In the description for Wrath of the Aufklarung, "firey" should be "fiery".
- There's something funny about the Hoch-Hammer's head protection. Try putting a black steel helmet on one. The protection doesn't go up properly.

[Sombre]

Heheh. I don't mind corrections to language. Sometimes I have to write this stuff late at night or in a hurry, so typos and strange spelling errors get in there all the time. It's fixed for the next version, anyway.

Actually in several mods I've displayed my total inability to recognise whether it should be capitol or capital though, so some of this is just my brain falling apart, I'm sure :]

I think the weird head protection thing is the strange 'helmet bug' discovered by amos. Regardless, there's not much I can do about it.

[VedalkenBear]

Haven't tried this one yet. I'll look into it and then report. :p

[Juzza]

I like the mod though, I don't overly like the summons, but I think thats just me, I'm not a huge fan of fliers, I think the most important thing that you accomplished is that it's balanced with the standard nations and thats really important, but I love the um, Penitents I noticed with Flagrents for marignon are just anoying to produce because their holy and the most you can get is ten a turn while the Penitents just come flocking to you! it's great! I love it!

[Sombre]

Yeah the flaggies for Marignon pretty much suck. You can't really use them as a real mob of rabble, which somewhat defeats the point (and lavour) of them. I believe they also all start with afflictions, unlike the penitent.

[Juzza]

Ah, yeah I noticed that too, and nothing in their description even explained how so, which kind of bugs me.

[VedalkenBear]

Well, after having played it some, I'll offer some comments.

Most play experience has come from playing this nation with an S9 Sleeping Oracle with Order3, Productivity3, Growth1, Luck3, Drain 3. So the bless was effective while also allowing other abilities. I also played on 50 Magic Sites.

First, it is quite interesting. There are several new units added to "Iron Faith", plus quite good Priests/Mages. The national summons are effective (though see below).

My main issues with the nation:

1) It is FAR too capital-centric. You have _no_ national mages recruitable outside the capital. This means you must rely on luck to be able to recruit more than one mage/turn. On anything more than the smallest map, this is crippling. One way to fix this is to make the Black Priest recruitable everywhere. This is hardly ideal, as this nation wants Drain scale for points to do a Bless strategy and (AFAIK, certainly implied) the Black Priests are not immune to Drain Scale.

2) Regarding the Magic themselves, I can't think of many nations even in LE that have weaker magic. Not a random among the national mages, and while Earth 3 is certainly nothing to complain about, they are saddled with Astral 1 which is not enough for Teleport without a booster (which they can't make with their national mages). While I understand Ulm is not known for its magic, I feel like some boost should be done here (esp. considering point 1) above).

3) The Penitents are nice, but everything flows from the capital. I'll note that not even _Mictlan_ has a capital-only issue like this nation. The problem with Penitents is that they are chaff (unless going for a heavy Bless strategy that doesn't really work for lack of points) that are tied to capital-only commanders.

4) White Priest? Very nice. But where do you get the money for them? I was lucky enough to get a 1000g event on the 3rd turn so I didn't have to worry _so_ much, but there was a definite 'what to spend money on' that was an interesting conundrum.

5) The general point is that this nation seems to need too many points. It needs Order and Production to have the money to purchase its units (which seem pretty reasonable, though the White halberd unit seems a bit overcosted), and while it can take Drain that mightily interferes with any research you might want to do. OTOH, it also wants at least one 9-level Bless. I chose one that from my experience worked well with the Penitents, and it does at least a bit.

6) National summons looked pretty good, except that, if you play the default LE settings, I'm not exactly sure where you're supposed to get the gems for them. Again, I was _very_ lucky in that my first or second Gnome Lore found the Tower of the Iron Order. I'd suppose a research path for them is to go to Evocation-4 for Blade Wind and the Astral search spell, then go for Thaumaturgy for the Earth search spell and Conjuration for Summon Earthpower/national summons.

The one 'national holy' spell is cute. I guess you could use massed Black Priests to throw them early.

I would stress that the one change I would make to this nation would be to give them _some_ national mage outside their capital.

Oh, they also have a very nice stealth preacher which is about the only commander their non-capital castles will build. Maybe up its cost to 80 or 90 and give it E1, bump the Black Priest to about E1?1(FAES) and its cost a bit and make it non-capital-only. Well, if the Acolyte gets magic, the Priest may not need to lose that status.

The one unit I'm curious about is the Mindless MB non-capital-only sacred troop. It implies that when they die, you get another unit. I never had one die, so some details would be nice.

Am I playing the nation wrong?

[Juzza]

The answer to most of your woes is that your not meant to able to do things easily, such as the national summons, few people would make such a mistake to make their national summons unavailble to the nation, they require astral gems, just use a bit of alchemy.

As for the national mages, I agree that the black priests should not be restricted to the capital, however I don't think they should have their magic increased, late age is less about magic than the other ages besides, their black 'priests' not black mages.

[Sombre]

Well just to start things off, I want to point out that I always intended this nation to be hard to play. I don't want them to be very underpowered, but they're supposed to be challenging and to force decisive gameplans. As a result the AI sort of sucks uing them. From the get go I set my sights on a nation that /really/ wants;

High Dominion for spawns and widescale sacred production.
Resources and an economy focused on national recruits (so production and order)
A high earth bless for the super-armoured sacreds.
A bless suitable for the swarms of sacred chaff (ie, not earth)

So even at the creation stage you're faced with some hard choices. You obviously can't have all of these things. On the other hand if you specialise completely your plan can easily go very wrong.

On the other hand, you have made a couple of very good points about Ulm Reborn's weakness on a larger map (over 120 or so provinces). I didn't intend for them to just fall over and die if the map is big, so this is something I'm interested in rectifying.

Point by point:

1) They are meant to be capital centric, but I do take your point. I am happy for them to be just about as capital centric as a nation can be in dom3, but not to the point where it's very frustrating for the player. I am willing to make Black Priests available everywhere in the next version. This allows frontline chaff production (although it's decided by dominion, unlike the white priests). I will also be giving the black priest an earth random so you'll get H2E2 ones maybe 40% of the time. This allows them better site searching, earthpower etc. Cost might go up a smidge. They are still there to be priests and penitent gatherers, but with some E2 you'll get a bit more research and whatnot from them.

2) Well the national summons give you some more magic. I think I'll stick a 10% or so random extra astral on the white priests, but this is always going to be a very weak nation magically, apart from the E3 that is. I mean they're like LA Ulm only with even LESS magic. It's intentional.

3) I played one game focusing on penitent and one game focusing on Anchorites and reborn guard. They were about equal - once the penitent machine gets going they can do impressive damage, but I was lucky enough to be fighting Ctis so archer mayhem wasn't really a factor. With black priests available out of capital the penitent should be more useful/nyumerous. Beware of the fact that they still cost upkeep though.

4) Yep, I wanted more hard decisions in the nation regarding gold usage. I think the white priests are priced ok, but maybe the reborn guard could do with being a bit cheaper.

5) I totally agree. They were designed with that in mind. On the other hand if this makes them too painful to play maybe I need to rethink a couple of things. I didn't find drain hosed my research /that/ bad because of white priest immunity, but it's hard to get very far up the tree, that's for sure.

6) Again, it's hard choices. You have to use the astral search spell, but that burns up precious pearls, cuts into research etc. I think I might need to reduce the cost of the 8 sternkind spell though or people won't want to summon them and wil go for the Stern/Sturmheld instead.

The mindless magic units are Anchorites - when they die a pissed off penitent falls out of the sealed armour and starts smacking things. I believe the bless remains on him too, although for me that was generally an earth bless so didn't help. I think some people have used them to great effect, although they might need a slight cost reduction because they almost always get killed off. Regardless they're sacred and not cap only, which means you should have some of them out there at some point.

Oh before I forget - were you using regular Ulm Reborn or CBM Ulm Reborn? They aren't crazy different, but the balance is obviously changed.

[llamabeast]

It does seem like research is very difficult. White priests have plenty of other stuff to be getting on with, and their research isn't _that_ good anyway. Black priests are essentially useless in a drain dominion. And you don't have access to owl quills or skull mentors.

How about adding another unit, called perhaps a White Acolyte, or a Monk, or a Librarian? Someone who conducts historical and academic studies in the cloisters of the new kingdom. They could have no magic, or else ?1, but produce a few research (5?), be recruitable anywhere and be drain immune. I think that would make a big difference.

Then you could keep the White Priests as capital only without screwing the nation over in the long term (there's no way you can survive on a largeish map if you can only produce researchers in one place, is there?).

I do think the Anchorites should be cheaper. The die very easily, and the emerging penitent is normally instantly cut down. Maybe when they emerge they could be berserk?

[Sombre]

Unfortunately you can't make a unit start off berserk. I wish you could actually, I'd use it in a couple of mods.

I tried entering morale 99 but no luck.

Black priests are useless for research in drain dominion, yes. Although they aren't generally useless because they're good priests and can produce a /lot/ of penitent if you get them in a high dom province. You also don't /have/ to take drain (although I do). It's another tough choice.

I like the idea of a white librarian/acolyte type unit. I was thinking along the same lines an update or so ago. Maybe astral 1 so you can use them for the search spell, drain immune and with ok research. Not cap only, of course. I'm rather wary of diversifying the magic because hey, this is a xenophobic priest nation.

[llamabeast]

The only trouble with making them astral 1, if they're cheapish, is that you could accidentally become a communion nation. When I see an affordable S1 mage I generally get quite excited and begin plotting big communions.

You could perhaps give them a 50% ES random or something, so that 1 in 4 with have astral (useful for searches) and 1 in 4 would have E (they could help out a bit with forging), but their only reliable use would be research.

Actually if you were going to go down that route I'd be inclined to have 20% S, 20% E, so that there was some small chance of getting both, which I always think is exciting.

[Sombre]

The 20% 20% sounds interesting.

Well they couldn't be communion drones if I made them immobile. I mean if they're just there to research and cast search spells I might as well attach them to a chair and stick a book in front of them. I could also then make them H1 priests (basically useless for an immobile unit but thematically it makes sense) without it overpowering them or forcing me to push the price up.

Whaddya think?

[llamabeast]

Hmm, I'm not sure about making them immobile. I see why it might be effective from a gameplay point of view, but thematically it would be a bit odd.

I was imagining they'd be just useful people to have around. If you needed a temple building but all your (cheaper) black acolytes were busy, you could send a librarian (I like the idea of having them H1, I think). If you needed an E1 mage in a battle for some bizarre reason, there'd be some chance a librarian might be able to help you out. But mostly they'd be inefficient for such tasks, so they wouldn't be overpowered. They'd also be rubbish for communions if not many of them had astral, because you'd never get enough together.

Now, making them immobile would get rid of any of that flexibility, and make them quite unattractive units I think. I don't know why, I just don't like the idea of having a unit that can't move - can't flee if enemies get nearby, and so on. Still, I wouldn't rule it out, I'm just thinking aloud. If you wanted to have them immobile, you could justify it by saying that each librarian takes a vow to never leave his cloister/monastery, and will die rather than abandon it.

[Sombre]

There are a bunch of ways I could explain why they're immobile. They might have all been horribly crippled during the civil war, they might have sworn never to leave their chair or book until the Aufklarung finally consumes the world, etc etc.

Anyway, I'm just putting ideas out. Immobility would solve the communion thing,... well providing we want it solved that is,... and it would help differentiate them from black acolytes and priests, who are like wandering preachers/rabble rousers right now. It would however make them slightly boring and merely functional research units.

[llamabeast]

Yeah, I do think that making them immobile might make them slightly boring (more like research factories and less like units), but on the other hand I do like the idea that they swore never to leave their books until the Aufklarung consumes the world. Well, they'll be good either way, but personally I'd be inclined to let them move. If they did have only random astral, then to the small extent that they were able to help out with communions it would be thematic (since sages etc are also capable of acting as communion slaves) and fun (nice to have another option every now and again), while definitely not overpowered.

I don't think you particularly need to worry about differentiating them from the black priests though. They'll be different just because of the fact you'll use them very differently. A librarian/white acolyte would be a rubbish wandering preacher because he'd be too expensive for his holy level, and also wouldn't generate penitents.

[VedalkenBear]

Sombre said:
Well just to start things off, I want to point out that I always intended this nation to be hard to play. I don't want them to be very underpowered, but they're supposed to be challenging and to force decisive gameplans. As a result the AI sort of sucks uing them. From the get go I set my sights on a nation that /really/ wants;



Well, my question to this is why should it be harder to play than vanilla nations, if it's meant to be played alongside them? About the only other nation that is this schismatic is EA Arco, and there the choices aren't nearly so hard.


High Dominion for spawns and widescale sacred production.
Resources and an economy focused on national recruits (so production and order)
A high earth bless for the super-armoured sacreds.
A bless suitable for the swarms of sacred chaff (ie, not earth)



Well, I don't necessarily agree with points 1) and 3) here, from my own experience. Don't know what you mean by 'high Dominion'; my Oracle had a 7, and I found that it was pretty overkill from most standpoints.

Also, I'm not sure why I'd want an Earth bless. As you point out, it doesn't help your Penitents at all, and everyone else already has more than sufficient protection. I would think that a Bless that helps out Penitents (Fire/Water/Death/Astral) would be good, since it also boosts your other Sacreds at the same time. Playing a high-Earth bless seems to be overkill while doing nothing for your sacred troops' weaknesses (i.e., magic).


So even at the creation stage you're faced with some hard choices. You obviously can't have all of these things. On the other hand if you specialise completely your plan can easily go very wrong.



I think that there is a much more optimal strategy for these guys than you might think. It may not be as optimal as the strategy for some others, but it's not simply a bunch of trade-offs.


On the other hand, you have made a couple of very good points about Ulm Reborn's weakness on a larger map (over 120 or so provinces). I didn't intend for them to just fall over and die if the map is big, so this is something I'm interested in rectifying.



Please note that that is basically all I play, so I'm pretty biased here. But even most 'capital-centric' nations (EA Mictlan, Arcoscephale, Sauromatia to some extent) get a researcher outside the capital.


1) They are meant to be capital centric, but I do take your point. I am happy for them to be just about as capital centric as a nation can be in dom3, but not to the point where it's very frustrating for the player. I am willing to make Black Priests available everywhere in the next version. This allows frontline chaff production (although it's decided by dominion, unlike the white priests). I will also be giving the black priest an earth random so you'll get H2E2 ones maybe 40% of the time. This allows them better site searching, earthpower etc. Cost might go up a smidge. They are still there to be priests and penitent gatherers, but with some E2 you'll get a bit more research and whatnot from them.



E2 is pretty good, but that's not as important as the non-capital-only designation. May I suggest that if you do that, switch the domspawn to the White Priest?


2) Well the national summons give you some more magic. I think I'll stick a 10% or so random extra astral on the white priests, but this is always going to be a very weak nation magically, apart from the E3 that is. I mean they're like LA Ulm only with even LESS magic. It's intentional.



It's about on par with LA Ulm right now, and yes the National Summons give you more magic (I had a Sturmheld hero join me), if you can afford them.


4) Yep, I wanted more hard decisions in the nation regarding gold usage. I think the white priests are priced ok, but maybe the reborn guard could do with being a bit cheaper.



Yes, the White Priests seem okay compared to other mages, but the fact that they're your only good researchers more or less means you need to recruit one/turn. So while they are worth their cost, they are not necessarily worth their cost _for purposes of research_.


The mindless magic units are Anchorites - when they die a pissed off penitent falls out of the sealed armour and starts smacking things. I believe the bless remains on him too, although for me that was generally an earth bless so didn't help. I think some people have used them to great effect, although they might need a slight cost reduction because they almost always get killed off. Regardless they're sacred and not cap only, which means you should have some of them out there at some point.



Interesting. It seems to be designed from the wrong end of the stick, though, y'know? Generally you make a very easy-to-kill unit that changes into something 'bigger'. E.g., Jaguar Warriors. This unit is almost like an egg or a small oyster. I was honestly expecting something a little better than a Penitent for a MagB unit (which isn't as bad to lead as some but still can cause issues).


Oh before I forget - were you using regular Ulm Reborn or CBM Ulm Reborn? They aren't crazy different, but the balance is obviously changed.



I was playing regular Ulm Reborn. I can also try the CBM one if you wish.

[VedalkenBear]

Regarding other suggestions... please realize that a 50% ES is generally preferable to 20% E 20% S. The latter has a 64% chance of not having any magic while only a 36% chance of having at least one pick and a 4% chance to have two.

And this nation is already not horribly bad at communion; I'm not exactly sure why you wouldn't want them to do it.

Just a point: Your national summons do give you access to Quills.

[llamabeast]

Is it possible to make a unit that reverts to another when the battle finishes? In the same way as Black Serpents revert to Lamias, or something?

If so, perhaps you could have the Anchorite reveal a "Newly Reborn" or something on its destruction. Like penitent, but even more filled with rage and fervour. He could refuse to die (15HP), feel no pain (4 prot, like berserkers) and fight with the strength of a fanatic (strength 14, attack 12 or something). The anchorites themselves could be cheaper, but maintain the high resource cost. Perhaps you could lower their attack a bit (although I can't remember what it is, so that might make no sense). Then a block of anchorites would be a solid defensive wall, and if they got damaged - surprise! The Newly Reborn would emerge, and cause a heap of damage (they'd also have flails and be sacred of course, so they could be quite nasty). Then after the battle the Newly Reborn would revert to penitents. Whaddya think?

[llamabeast]

Well, you could have 30% E 30 % S then. I just personally like having separate randoms, because then there's at least some small chance of getting a really specially good one.

Yeah, I'm not sure about communion, I guess there's no strong reason to discourage it - I guess it depends on the flavour Sombre's going for with the nation.

Personally I tend to think that the mind-manipulating aspects of strong astral magic make it feel a bit evil.

[Sombre]

Well, my question to this is why should it be harder to play than vanilla nations, if it's meant to be played alongside them? About the only other nation that is this schismatic is EA Arco, and there the choices aren't nearly so hard.




Well as I said it's not supposed to be very underpowered and currently I don't think it is, although it could perhaps do with a boost. I don't think there's any problem with the nation being hard to play (if you're using mods I have to assume you're not a greenhorn to the game) and forcing you to make hard choices if it's still balance-wise roughly as good as the vanilla nations.



Well, I don't necessarily agree with points 1) and 3) here, from my own experience. Don't know what you mean by 'high Dominion'; my Oracle had a 7, and I found that it was pretty overkill from most standpoints.

Also, I'm not sure why I'd want an Earth bless. As you point out, it doesn't help your Penitents at all, and everyone else already has more than sufficient protection. I would think that a Bless that helps out Penitents (Fire/Water/Death/Astral) would be good, since it also boosts your other Sacreds at the same time. Playing a high-Earth bless seems to be overkill while doing nothing for your sacred troops' weaknesses (i.e., magic).




7 might be high enough. The stronger your dominion the more penitent you'll get, the more you'll be able to move the black priests around without cutting off the spawning and the more chance you'll have of amassing anchorites etc. Plus with stealthy preachers dominion kill is actually on the table.

Benefits of an earth bless: Reinvig your sacred mages. Reinvig your high encumbrance high survival sacreds who suffer badly from critical hits caused by fatigue. Push an already high protection to the point where anchorites and reborn are very, very hard to hurt. I think earth blessing works best with units that are already high protection.

I'm not a big bless player, nor am I particularly good at dom3 generally, but I think an earth-9 bless is worth it with this nation.



I think that there is a much more optimal strategy for these guys than you might think. It may not be as optimal as the strategy for some others, but it's not simply a bunch of trade-offs.




Maybe. I'm not really into looking for the 'perfect' start build. I'd probably go something like order 3 prod 3 misfortune 2 drain 3 on scales, earth 9 bless,... not sure what else,... or for a penitent build I'd go for very high dom, fire and air bless, growth scale, sloth,... you get the picture. There's probably a middle ground in there that makes the most of it all though. I leave that up to you guys :]


Please note that that is basically all I play, so I'm pretty biased here. But even most 'capital-centric' nations (EA Mictlan, Arcoscephale, Sauromatia to some extent) get a researcher outside the capital.




Yeah and I mostly play Aran and Parganos, so I'm probably biased the other way. As I said though, I don't want to cripple them for people who like large maps.



E2 is pretty good, but that's not as important as the non-capital-only designation. May I suggest that if you do that, switch the domspawn to the White Priest?




I like the domspawn on the black priests, really gives them a different role from the white priests (who just summon 1 penitent per turn). If you could build more black priests (ie, noncap) the penitent hording would be more effective, though you'd have to decide whether you want them at the frontlines pushing dom and killing cats, or if you want them tucked somewhere spawning penitent. A case where high dominion is useful I think.



Yes, the White Priests seem okay compared to other mages, but the fact that they're your only good researchers more or less means you need to recruit one/turn. So while they are worth their cost, they are not necessarily worth their cost _for purposes of research_.




If I make black priests noncap and stick in a new researching drain-proof mage that'll be sorted and you'll be able to get more use out of them. Thanks to smite, bladewind etc they do make good battlemages.



Interesting. It seems to be designed from the wrong end of the stick, though, y'know? Generally you make a very easy-to-kill unit that changes into something 'bigger'. E.g., Jaguar Warriors. This unit is almost like an egg or a small oyster. I was honestly expecting something a little better than a Penitent for a MagB unit (which isn't as bad to lead as some but still can cause issues).




They're weird, yes, and I don't think there's anything like them in vanilla, but I like that. They'll be dropped in cost a touch but the 'shapechange' stays - the idea I suppose is to avoid getting them cracked open - a bit like a tank.


I was playing regular Ulm Reborn. I can also try the CBM one if you wish.



Well it's up to you. If you like to play with CB on they're balanced towards it, obviously. Includes stuff like lower cavalry resource costs, warhorse hooves etc.

[llamabeast]

Did you see my post about the Anchorites Sombre? It just occurred to me that you were probably typing your long post when I posted about the Anchorites. Not that I'm demanding a comment, it'd just be a shame if you missed it.

[Sombre]

I just read it. It's a pretty good idea - it gives the emerging penitent a one-off boost and allows them to do some more damage if your anchorites are getting smashed up in combat.

It would also be quite easy to mod. I just have the secondary form of the anchorites be the new pumped up penitent and the 'change back when ok' form of the pumped up penitents be regular ones. It fits thematically and would improve the anchorites a bit, so it will probably be in the next update.

[Sombre]

Oh before I forget, no-one should really give the CBM Ulm Reborn much playytesting right now because it's an old version - I have the new one here waiting to be uploaded after a bit more tweaking.

I repeat: Current CBM Ulm Reborn is based on an old version and will be updated soon, so if you haven't tried it yet, wait a couple days before you do.


Stuff confirmed and coded for next version so far.

-Anchorite slightly cheaper, spits out Emergent, upgraded penitent, who turns into regular penitent after battle.
-White Priests get S15% and forgbonus 10% added
-Black Priests no longer cap only, get E30% added, slight price hike

[Sombre]

What should the cost of the white acolyte be?

They currently are buildable anywhere, have ES110% magic and a research bonus of 1. This gives them a general research level of 4. They are also priests H1 but they do not spawn penitent. They are physically weak, but not suffering from immediate oldage, have a mapmove of 1 etc. Obviously they are drain immune. They can't lead any soldiers.

I have them at 140 gold currently.

[llamabeast]

I'm not the best at balance, but I'd either give them a bit more research (a further +2 even), or make them quite a bit cheaper (say 100). I'm just thinking about Sauromatian Enaries (Sauromatia being the nation I've played the most) - 150 gold gives you much more good stuff (S1D2N1). Similarly Marignon witch hunters are good (F2S1H1) for 150 gold, and Mothers of Avalon are A1N2 for 130 gold (they're the other nations I've played recently).

On balance, I think I'd go for either a research bonus of +2 and cost of say 100, or even a research bonus of +3 and cost maybe 130. I think with a total research of just 4 they wouldn't be very tempting to recruit. If they were my main researchers I would cry (but then I obviously like high research scores because I always take magic scales).

[Sombre]

Well they aren't there to be your main picks - that's the white priests. The point of the White Acolytes is giving you drain immune researchers you can build outside of your cap. If you're just building one WP a turn then you're not going to be picking up that much speed on the research race. If you have WAs churned out by other forts (several forts are a good idea - this is Ulm we're talking about) then you're going to get the research moving at pace.

They're also sacred, which makes them cost efficient researchers. But I take your point. I'll drop their cost to 100 and keep them at +1 research for the average of 4RP.

Also, 0.9 is now out, so refer to the main post for the download ;]

[llamabeast]

Hi Sombre,

I had a quick look at the new version - I'm excited to try it, but haven't really had any time yet. Quick comments, because if I was a sensible person I would be in bed (got up ridiculously early this morning):
- I really like the white acolyte. I see you managed to find a good sprite as well.
- I really like the Emergent too! Clearly I'm particularly fond of things I was involved in discussing. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif I think he adds extra punch and flavour to the anchorites though, and they're a favourite unit of mine now. They have got quite low attack though - is that deliberate? No reason why not, just wondering.
- Your writing is exceptional. The quality of the mod is really impressive.
- I had something else interesting to say too, but I've forgotten it. Hopefully it'll come back to me.

Also, a separate issue - did you know that everything on linux is case sensitive? That means that if you give the name of a unit graphic (e.g. Troll Shaman.tga), and the real name has a character in a different case (Troll shaman.tga), the mod crashes. I've been meaning to mention this for a while - it's come up because the windows half of my computer has died, so I'm playing on linux now. Anyway, I can't remember if I had to fix Ulm Reborn, but I definitely had to do a few fixes to get Vaettiheim working (which I also looked at briefly and which is also awesome!).

[llamabeast]

Oh, I just found this quote by Endo:


As Johan said earlier, there is a typo (actually several) in the modding manual for itemslots, the precalculated values at the end are wrong. If you examine his protection more closely, you'll notice that his head protection is just 12, as if his protection was halved. To fix this, you should use #itemslots 31878 instead of 32006. In general, to fix this problem you have to decrease #itemslots value of all units that are affected by the halved head protection bug by 128.



Perhaps this'd fix the Hoch-Hammer's head protection bug?

[llamabeast]

Oh, I've remembered my other small comment - I think it would be good if Ulm had the Virtue as a pretender. Seems thematic.

[Sombre]

Hang on, 'find' a good sprite? You mean /make/ a good sprite. That is if hastily editing a black acolyte's robes to be white and giving him a book to carry actually counts http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

I didn't know that about Linux. It sounds very annoying. I'll try to fix that stuff up in future versions of my mods, but to be honest it's likely it'll slip my mind, I'm too used to windows.

In a future version Ulm Reborn will get an all new pretender and maybe a couple extra from the vanilla ones.

The Emergent has the same attack as the penitent - he's no more skilled, just stronger and more determined. I think the anchorites are good enough to use regularly now. Those immunities are nice when the magic is flying and they are still capable of dealing damage equal to their cost.

I hope you enjoy the mod - any and all feedback is very welcome. I'll probably try that itemslots fix soon too, see if I need to apply it to a bunch of my work.

[llamabeast]

Oops, sorry about the sprite! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Well, it shows I thought it was Kristoffer quality, at least.

The case sensitive thing is a bit annoying, I'll try to note down anything I have to fix and let you know. I can imagine it would be very hard to hunt down any problems if you don't get any error messages yourself.

Makes sense about the Emergent. The Anchorites are cool.

I think the itemslots fix is probably worthwhile, because in trying to make a solid thug, having low head protection actually makes quite a big difference (1 in 5 hits or so do 10 more damage than they should, it's quite a lot).

[SlipperyJim]

Excellent! I was playing an Ulm Reborn game when I upgraded to Dom 3 3.08, and all of a sudden I noticed my White Acolytes getting extra magic. I was planning to post a bug report on this thread ... and you beat me to it!

I can't wait to fire up a new game with v1.1. Ulm Reborn is really a quality mod. Each commander (especially each of the priests) has a distinct purpose. Each unit has a place in the army. And it's really fun to play!

Thanks for a great mod, Sombre!

[Sombre]

You're welcome, thanks for the feedback.

I'm playing as Ulm Reborn in a duel against llamaneast right now - he's using Vaettihiem. So far we've only had a couple of clashes but the reborn guard were looking solid against the trolls. Be interesting to see how it plays out.

[SlipperyJim]

Whee! The faithful warriors of Ulm are smiting the heck out of the unbelievers! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I'm running a new game on Edi's fixed Parganos map (thanks Edi!) and 9 AI opponents. Indies are set to 9, and site frequency is set to 75%. Those are my usual settings for every game I play....

My pretender is an imprisoned F9N4 Red Dragon with 5 candles' of dominion strength. Scales are Order 1, Productivity 3 (of course), Cold 1, Luck 3, and Drain 3. I think that's all correct, but I could be off by a point or two, because I'm doing it from memory. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

So, um, thoughts:
Hoch-Hammers make great prophets. 'Nuff said.
F9N4-blessed Black Templars tear through Shades without even slowing down. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
Those li'l White Acolytes are GREAT for research. Just stockpile them one-at-a-time, and pretty soon you can have a regular research academy.
That said, Ulm Reborn still isn't the research king. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif It really pays to focus your research and beeline toward your goal. I'm about to hit Conjuration 5 to unlock the last of my lovely angels.
Speaking of angels, I got one as a multihero! Yay!

This mod rocks. Ulm Reborn is as much fun to play as any of the "stock" races in Dom3, and that's quite a compliment. Thanks again, Sombre!

(PS: Any chance of some more pretender choices in a later version?)

[SlipperyJim]

I think I spotted a wee bug in v1.1 ... The Hoch-Hammer has hand slots.

His description says that he won't use anything other than his sacred White Hammer, and previous versions enforced that rule by taking away his hand slots to prevent him from equipping any magic weaponry. However, v1.1 has given the Hoch-Hammer two hand slots, just like a regular Hochmeister, so that I can now outfit him with my choice of magic weaponry and/or shields.

Of course, I don't want to give him anything other than his White Hammer. And that actually was a problem for me when I blindly sent my Hoch-Hammer prophet into an Arena death-match. I didn't want the Trident, but I figured it was a good way to get some major XP for my mobile artillery. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Unfortunately, Mikael's first duel was against a Lich pretender. His mighty White Hammer made short work of the Lich (silly AI), and he progressed to the next stage. Unfortunately, the Lich was carrying a Rune Smasher, which Mikael foolishly grabbed. Then he tried to fight his next duel with the stupid Rune Smasher ... and without his White Hammer. Needless to say, poor Mikael met a hideous fate at the hands of a skelly-spamming Wight Mage. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

If it hadn't been the AI's pretender with that Rune Smasher, I would feel like I got suckered. Even so, I just recruited another Hoch-Hammer, waited six turns, and prophetized the New Guy. No big loss....

Oh, I also got Van Duk, the Reborn Noble. That guy is nice. Very thuggable. He's been carrying around a Flambeau for a while, and that was pretty cool. My Garnet Sorceress is about to give him a Hell Sword, and we'll see how he does with that. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[SlipperyJim]

SlipperyJim said:
I think I spotted a wee bug in v1.1 ... The Hoch-Hammer has hand slots.

His description says that he won't use anything other than his sacred White Hammer, and previous versions enforced that rule by taking away his hand slots to prevent him from equipping any magic weaponry. However, v1.1 has given the Hoch-Hammer two hand slots, just like a regular Hochmeister, so that I can now outfit him with my choice of magic weaponry and/or shields.



Since Sombre seems to be busy with other mods -- and good for him! -- I went ahead and fixed this bug in my own version of the mod. All you have to do is add the following line:
<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>#itemslots 13440</pre><hr />
... just before the #end of the Hoch-Hammer's definition. I have tested this fix, and it seems to work properly. Now my Hoch-Hammers have head, body, and two miscellaneous slots.

On the same topic, I just noticed that my Reborn Noble hero has three miscellaneous slots in addition to the other standard item slots. Cool! He can wear Precious, a Girdle of Might, and still have room to carry a Cauldron of Broth. Be afraid! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

EDIT: Um, it occurred to me that I should clarify something. I do not intend to slight Sombre's work on this mod in any way, and I certainly don't want to steal any of the credit that is rightfully his. I figure he's busy with Arga Dis right now, and he just doesn't have the time to fix such a minor bug. So I figured out how to fix it, and I thought I'd share the fix in case anyone else wants it.

No offense meant, Sombre. Ulm Reborn is a great mod and tremendous fun to play. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[llamabeast]

I was just looking at this mod again last night (playing as it rather than against it). You know, it really is absolutely excellent, I love it. I think it's one of my favourite nations in the game, which is really saying something.

I'm going to try to get Ulm Reborn into the MP games I host (along with Vaettiheim and maybe others once I've looked into them more), ideally by default on the same footing as all the other LA nations (if I can overcome a technical snag), since I think they add a lot of interest to the game.

[Sombre]

They've really grown on me too. They're probably my favourite mod nation, ahead of the others I've made and Zepath's stuff. Not sure exactly why either.

I have some ideas for minor changes to them - I think the reborn guard are a tad too expensive for example.

Next version will add another national hero, make some changes,... no new units though.

[llamabeast]

Cool, glad there's a new version coming out.

I've been thinking quite a lot about the balance of Ulm Reborn and Vaettiheim. I think they're well balanced against each other, but compared to the vanilla nations they've both got a major weakness in one area - they have no recruitable-anywhere mages of any strength. I've been looking through all the other LA nations, and I think all of them have a reasonably strong recruitable-anywhere mage capable of some good battle magic. Hmm, wish I had dominions here so I could give some examples. But check out any vanilla nation.

In the early game and on small maps it isn't too important, but I think playing either nation against almost any vanilla nation on a large-ish map you'd ultimately be doomed, because you'd eventually be out-magicked. Ulm Reborn in particular has the problem that your only real mages, the white priests, are not only hard to come by but also very easily killed off by Magic Duel.

I wonder if you could change the mage lineup to be something like:

Archivist: Same as current White Acolyte
White Acolyte: E2 (50%)S
White Priest: As current White Priest

If the white priest had 1 less hp than the white acolyte (as is the case I think with Pythium?), he wouldn't be targeted by magic duel until after any white acolytes with astral, I think.

I'm sorely tempted to suggest giving the White Priest a (FAES) random - that would be great, even if it was just 50%. But they're not meant to be a nation of strong mages I suppose, so that would probably be over the top.

What do you think?

[Sombre]

I'm dead set against giving Ulm Reborn any more magic. They are already magically either the equal or superior of regular LA Ulm and they are supposed to be a nation that's all about priests, dominion and great sacred troops/thugs.

In the next version they will have reduced cost for the Reborn Guard and summonables as well as a few other stat tweaks and a new national hero - the Confessor, who is a H2 F2 E2 marignese inquisitor turned black priest.

After that they should basically be a finished product. They're still not a top power nation, but they have some very unique traits.

[Sombre]

I just updated the thread and I noticed that I forgot to fix the very minor bug with the hoch-hammer's hands. I can't be bothered to make a new version just to fix that, so I refer you to the fix posted by slipperyjim if it really bothers you being able to replace the hammer :]

Any way,....

GO GET 1.2. It's on the first post, it's available from a mediafire link and it's pretty much FINAL.

[llamabeast]

Fair enough about not giving them any more magic, you're probably right I suppose. I can begin to see it must be very hard to avoid creating overpowered nations - myself I think I'd find it hard to resist keeping on adding cool units. And I agree it is more thematic not to add any more mage power.

Looking forward to having a play with 1.2 when I get a chance (away on holiday for the bank holiday at the mo).

[Shovah32]

As previously mentioned the hochhammers have hand slots and seem to constantly pick up trinkets and proceed to get killed.

ps: 4 hochhammers(all with thematic names, obviously) with a few non-hand items lead by the grey shepherd(to bless them) seem to be very good and destroying armies http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[SlipperyJim]

I swapped out to v1.2 in my current game, and it's just fine. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Oh, I just got the Confessor. He's nice to have, but not super-powerful. The concept is great!

As it happens, I agree with Sombre about the magic. Ulm Reborn simply does not need more magical variety. You already have access to Earth and Astral from your national mages, as well as Fire and Air from your summons. Considering that Ulm Reborn is not supposed to be a mage-heavy nation, that's more than enough magical power for my taste.

---

Shovah32: Check my previous post for a way to remove the Hoch-Hammers' hand slots. Basically, you just have to add:
<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>#itemslots 13440</pre><hr />
... to the Hoch-Hammer's definition in the mod file.

[Sombre]

I'm very glad you enjoy it. It's a shame Jomon Broken didn't attract people as much - I think I'll do a bit more work on it and see if I can entice people with a new version.

[SlipperyJim]

Sombre said:
I'm very glad you enjoy it. It's a shame Jomon Broken didn't attract people as much - I think I'll do a bit more work on it and see if I can entice people with a new version.


Um, well ... Ulm was the first nation I ever played in Dom1, and they've always been my favorites. Except I don't really care for the Black Forest "take" on LA Ulm. For me, Ulm Reborn is exactly what LA Ulm should have been.

(No disrespect to Kristoffer &amp; Johan! Black Forest is a fine concept and well-executed. It's just not my personal choice.)

Jomon Broken doesn't have the same sort of appeal for me. I don't know why. Back to that personal choice, I suppose. However, Arga Dis is looking mighty fine to me. That will probably be the next nation mod that I try. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[BandarLover]

I appreciate your Broken Swords mod, Sombre. Early age Yomi and middle age Shinuyama have real nice character and a cool FEEL to them.

Late age Jomon has ninjas.

Really, that's the only thing I like about them. I almost think your mod makes more sense by the fact that it follows the whole "every nation seems to be slipping downward into shadow" like the majority of LA nations. I don't even play Jomon anymore.

[llamabeast]

Oh, I actually really like LA Jomon. It's cool to have proper human samurais.

I haven't really looked at Broken Swords, so can't comment.

[BandarLover]

You should, it's real cool. Sombre infused some Japanese horror elements that are just awesome. I loves it!

I like the samurai aspect as well, it's just that, as an overall nation, Jomon is kinda blah to me. I can't explain it any better than....blah.

[Sombre]

I'm just about to update the first post with a new version - 1.3

-Forge Lord, Virtue, Lord of War and Sacred Statue as pretender options.

-Hoch-Hammer itemslots issue resolved (finally).

-Case sensitive for Linux using WHINERS. Just kidding guys ;]

[lch]

i DoN't uNdErsTAnD wHaT aLl ThiS cAsE stUfF iS aBouT, tOo

[Shovah32]

NoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOo iTs ThE cAsE-pOcAlYpSe!1!

[Sombre]

bE GlAd i diDn't coDE iT In L33t sp34k gUys

[Shovah32]

bAh! M1 1337 5P34k pWnZ0rZ j0oR c0d3!


back on topic good to hear about the update.

[Gooles]

1 +|-|1|\||&lt; `/0|_| $|-|0|_||[) \X/|21+3 @|| 0|= +|-|3 [)3$(|21|*+10|\|$ 1|\| |-|16|-| |3\/3|, `/0|_|'[) |}3 $0 |33+, |\||_||}|}1|\|$ \X/0|_||[) |}3 |1|&lt;3 0|\/|6, |-|3'$ @ |-|@(|&lt;3|2

Might want to use a translator for that.

[DigitalSin]

in high what? i got the rest http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Sombre]

Ok, ok, no more. Let's get back on topic shall we? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[lch]

Sorry, still a case problem with the Hoch-Hammer file name and graphic.

[Sombre]

Really? In my .dm it's "Hoch-Hammer" and the filename is "Hoch-Hammer".

Ok, I just downloaded the attachment and for some reason it's different from the version on my machine - it has "hoch-hammer.tga". I guess I didn't upload the renamed graphic or something.

If attachments work I'll fix that right now. That will also fix the cbm version, since cbm uses the same graphic files.

[Sombre]

Attaching a new preview image.

Next version will be up relatively soon, but will be a /very/ minor update.

[Sombre]

Updated to 1.4 check the first post for download and details.

This was a pretty minor update.

[jutetrea]

Just read through the post, looks to be very interesting and will be giving it a shot soon.

[Rasit]

Anyone else getting "Något gick fel! kv: bad mt0"?

Quick info: Patch 3.08, Vista Business x64, "Dom3_Faerun_466_NoSpecials". I have had Dominions 3 installed for 3 months without any problems. I have also cleaned out my mod folder and inserted fresh copies of each of my current mods.

Three mods are loaded; heroes1_7b.dm (version 1.07), mytheology.dm (version 2.03) and Ulm Reborn.dm (version 1.04). I won't have time to start a new game for a few days but I will try to play with this mod as the only thing loaded as soon as I can.

The only mention of "bad mt0" on these forums are in the Dominions II Bug Thread (Page 50, post #292223) (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Number=235264&amp;page=0&amp;view=collap sed&amp;sb=5&amp;o=&amp;fpart=50&amp;vc=1) but that poster gets "roh" instead of my "kv".

Description: Sometimes when a turn ends I get a "Något gick fel! kv: bad mt0" during the "Loading Mod" phase of the new turn .

As soon as the bug appears I have to make sure none of my units fights in a battle or researches a new spell level or the crash will continue to happen.

Have anyone else encountered this or is it caused by the mix of mods? I can upload a copy of my saved games tomorrow.

[Sombre]

Sounds like an id conflict between the mods.

I know that Ulm Reborn CBM version is conflict free with the other LA CBM nations, Conceptual Balance Mod and worthy heroes.

As for this version, I didn't really aim to avoid conflict with other mods.

[Tuidjy]

I'm the Ulm Reborn player in NeoXekinima. I love the mod, but there are a few
things I would slightly change, not so much for balance, but for flavor.

The melee capital commanders have too many HPs. Yes, they are highly trained,
but 30 hps is giants' territory. I suggest that the Reborn Lord and the
Hoch-Hammer get their HPs reduced to 20, to bring them back into 'Holy, blessed
but still human' range.

To compensate, I would give the Reborn Lord a greatsword (as a mark of him being a
commander that leaves the line) and one less encumbrance. As for the Hoch-Hammer,
he has one serious problem. He cannot replace either his weapon nor his shield,
which, combined with his modest magic resistance, makes him a sitting duck for
Vengeance of the Dead. I suggest that the hammer is given an area effect that
works only on undead/demons. It will not make him too powerful in general but it
will make him even more of a bane of everything evil. To compensate for losing
the HPs, he could also get plus one in defense, or minus one in encumbrance.

Otherwise, this the most enjoyable mod I've ever played. I also feel that it is
well balanced, but of course, I'm biased. At least, not one of my opponents has
complained, so it must not be that bad ;-)

[Sombre]

Hp reduction sounds reasonable, look for it in a later version. No greatsword though - that's the domain of the Reborn Noble hero.

I can't mod the white hammer to have an aoe effect, vs undead or otherwise. Weakness versus vengeance of the dead doesn't sound like a terrible drawback to me - hoch-hammers aren't /that/ expensive unless you've thugged them up with all sorts of gear.

And thanks, I appreciate all feedback and I'm glad you enjoy the mod. Perhaps you'd like to have a crack at writing a short play guide for them? It might encourage other people to give them a try.

[Nikolai]

Greatsword hero picture is one of the best in Dominions. But Ulm Reborn is very expensive for points, I tried to make a good God with good luck, and could not. Who will never see the hero?

If you will diminish lord and hammer's hps, you should give them something. Endurance for hit points? They are so well traned and their faith so strong they can fight for long time...

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

How come their encumbrance is so low for some of the units?

For instance, the hochmeister has basic encumbrance of five, melee encumbrance of five, spellcasting encumbrance of nineteen.

Basic 5 + Full Plate (5) + Kite Shield (2) = 12 = 5?

[Sombre]

Because he's mounted. The modding manual says that mounted units get high base enc but don't suffer enc from their armour.

I thought that's how all mounted units worked to be honest. Am I wrong?

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

You're probably right. I just never read the modding manual, though I've read the gameplay manual many times.

[Sombre]

Well take a look at MA Ulm's Black Knight. Enc 5.

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

That's what I get for playing Atlantis and Agartha and zero cavalry factions. Thank you for clearing that up for me, it makes sense now.

[Sombre]

I'm looking to update this very soon for 3.14 so there's a window here where any suggestions from you guys would be greatly appreciated. Anything you say that doesn't require lots of content work by me has a great chance of being implemented.

So far I'm thinking some sort of combo buff spell will be added, hoch hammers will get a onebattlespell of some sort (possibly an anti undead/demon one), they might get an aoe holy effect on their hammer too. I guess I could throw in some sort of new hero too, since they only have 2 right now.

So, ideas?

[Digress]

What about "The Voice of Aufklarung" ? Some sort of flying priest/warrior to complement the existing summons.

And maybe "The Host of Aufklarung" to make summoning Sternhelds cheaper as a reward for getting to Conj 9.

Should say I am playing this nation in MP .... and enjoying it very much.

[Sombre]

A mass sternkind summon makes sense, I'll add one.

In the next version, coming soon, they get quite a few changes based on the basegame MA/LA Ulm changes. Nothing radical, but still interesting.

[Sombre]

UPDATE TO 1.5 for 3.15 basegame

This update doesn't add much in the way of content, it just brings Ulm Reborn up to date with 3.15 and the changes made to regular MA and LA Ulm. I think 1.6 might not be far away if people come to the thread with suggestions. It's basically a finished nation though.

-- Several changes to descriptions and flavour, based on 3.15 update to MA and LA Ulm

-- Checked for conflicts against CBM1.21, LA Jomon Broken

-- White Priests no longer attract penitent

-- Black Priests given more chance of E2, differentiated from regular Ulm Black Priests a bit, no forgebonus here

-- Neugeboren Lord and troops stats tweaked, given new White Halberd weapon, a counterpart to the new Guardians of MA Ulm

-- Forgebonus of white priests up to 15, same as black priests of LA Ulm

-- Hoch-Hammer leadership reduced

-- Production bonus in all forts reduced to 20%

-- Stern/Sturmheld get better mr

-- Sturmheld only summonable by H4, ie prophet

-- An extra gem for 4 gems standard LA starting income

-- Sternkind get plate cuirass armour

-- Added new Host of the Aufklarung mass Sternkind summon

-- Changed White Hammer into more of a holy weapon

-- Reduced black zwei gcost to 14

[llamabeast]

Apologies for my complete failure to get feedback to you before Sombre.

Right, so basically I reckon feedback on these mods can be split into thematic comments and suggestions, and balance stuff. Now, thematically I think the mod is awesome, and essentially complete for me. I had actually no new ideas for units or spells, and everything seems very much in its place, and cool.

Balancewise I had several thoughts. I couldn't work out how to use the Sternkind with their really low protection, and with neither Legions of Steel nor an E9 bless boosting their protection. Looks like you've fixed that. I also wished Black Priests had more of a possibility of getting E2, so that the nation had at least _some_ battle mages outside of the magic-duel-vulnerable white priests. Fixed as well!

Finally I was concerned that the penitent might be just too powerful, since I stormed to victory with them in Marmoset. However, I reviewed the stats, and I think you've made them as weak as is thematically possible. Also I know fine control of their numbers is impossible. I think perhaps the reason I was so successful with them was that I never encountered an opponent who really focussed on countering them. The sole exception was Digress as the Skaven, who caused an unreasonable amount of damage considering my vast numerical superiority. I think if anyone else had concentrated some serious evocation on the penitents they would have been toast. So the conclusion of that waffle is that, although they are undoubtedly one of the key strengths of the nation, I don't think they're overpowered.

So yeah, everything is good!

[Sombre]

Penitent numbers are down slightly due to the white priests not autospawning one a turn. Not a major factor, but does reduce the hordes somewhat. In order to make best use of them you need a bless that doesn't suit your other sacreds (like fire 9 or blood 9 or whatever), high dominion and a focus on spells that keep them alive, like arrow fend. They don't have very strong synergy with anything else UR is doing, so it's hard for them to be overpowered I think. They are nice for free though ;]

[llamabeast]

With an S9E9F4 bless (which I took in Marmoset) the Penitents are extremely effective, as are all the other sacreds. I was pretty pleased with that combo actually!

But yes, I agree that they're not overpowered against an enemy who focusses on tactics which are effective against them.

[Sombre]

Well the astral bless works on all sacreds, but isn't in itself a top flight bless. E9 does nothing for the penitent of course, though is great for other sacreds. So again, you don't quite have the synergy there which would make for an overpowered build. It's something I wanted to avoid, giving free sacreds which would benefit from the same bless as the elites.

F4 is pretty good for all sacreds though.

If you want a really big army of penitent you need high dom and that coupled with a major bless,.. well UR also likes order3 prod3,.. so something has to give.

[Trumanator]

Just wanted to say that after my first SP game with these guys that THEY ROCK!!!11 I actually took an E9S9 bless as well, and found that the computer had major issues damaging the Anchorites at all. One thing I noticed was that Iron darts/blizzard seemed much more effective with this Ulm than the others. I actually get annoyed with freespawn, so I tried to avoid having a bunch of penitents running around. The only tiny gripe I had was the attack sprite for the Anchorite looked a little wrong, like he had some sort of cape between his arm and body on the back side.

[Sombre]

That's a KO sprite, not one of mine. It's just the MA Ulm black steel plate hammer guy.

[Trumanator]

My bad then.

[Aezeal]

Well KO's bad.. unless you made it for KO :D

[Arcturas]

*Casts Thread Necromancy*

Sombre, I'd be surprised if you continued to update this, given the other projects you have going on, but seeing as how you've been a little more active recently, I thought I'd send a bug-report your way.

BUG

Host of the Aufklarung costs 0 pearls. This means all my white priests can auto-summon Sternkind until the cows come home. Not sure how expensive you intended the spell to be, but it summons what, 30 Sternkind? Messengers costs 13 pearls for 8, so 50 pearls-ish? 8/13 = ~.66 Sternkind per gem, at 30/50 your .60 Sternkind per gem. The price increase would be made up by the mage-turn savings.

(And I thought my current game would be easy when I found the Ultimate Gateway...now I have half price acashic & national summons, and free flying blessables...mwahaha!)

[Sombre]

I have updated Ulm Reborn to v1.7

It was refreshing to go back and work on Ulm Reborn a little bit, just making sure everything was working. I played a quick SP game with them and my E9 reborn guard ended up facing hordes of ermor backed by my priests and thugs - it was pretty cool.

Here's the change log. What I bothered to write down anyway.

-- version 1.7

-- TWEAK - Sturmheld and Sternheld now H1 priests

-- TWEAK - White Priests no longer martial leaders

-- FIX - Fixed Host of Aufklarung cost

-- TWEAK - Gave Black Steel Helmet and Black Steel Kite Shield to appropriate commanders

-- TWEAK - Added the CBM Warhorse hoof and used it for cavalry units instead of hoof. I agree with that CBM change and want to unify this vanilla mod and the CBM version

-- TWEAK - Removed armour piercing from spirit Hammers and reduced damage, making them useful almost only against demons and undead, which is fine

-- TWEAK - Removed some of the copystatting



--- version 1.6

-- FIX - Gave Reborn Lord a helment

-- TWEAK - Increased precision for punish the unjust spell

[Arcturas]

Thanks for the update, Sombre! I was having a blast with the nation - the cost bug was the only thing I found to complain about, actually. (Well that and not having enough astral pearls in LA to summon my dudes...but that's pretty standard).

[rdonj]

Er, sombre. I hadn't looked at them before now so I don't know for sure what they looked like in previous versions. But I'm going to go ahead and guess you didn't intend for ulm reborn's recruits to have 10 base encumbrance, which for some reason most of them do.

Exceptions are the anchorite (0), Black Templar (5), and the neugeboren guard (3). Commanders are unaffected.

[Sombre]

Urgh. This is from removing the copystats. Apparently 10 enc is the default, not 3 like I thought. I'll sort it out and reupload in a couple hours (can't right now).

I'll post here when it's fixed.

[Sombre]

Well I fixed it real quick just now. Because I'm impatient.

So redownload it you jokers.

[SlipperyJim]

Thanks for updating this excellent mod, Sombre! You've inspired me to play another game with Ulm Reborn.

Wow ... Hoch-Hammers sure dispatch the undead in a hurry! I started next to LA C'tis, and the silly lizzies think that they can stop me with reanimated soulless. ;)