Vote: Who is still playing SEV ?

[Ragnarok-X]

Sorry if some of you guys dont like the threads name, but im really wondering who is actually playing SEV.
I have it installed since it was released, but havent touched it in months.

[Suicide Junkie]

I'd be playing more if UF would submit his turns! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Raapys]

I'm sort of in a 'on-hold' state regarding SE V, waiting for the next patch. That's something I find myself doing with almost every new patch, unfortunately.

It's not only about the issues and bugs left, it's also that I've grown rather tired with the original tech tree, not to mention the predictable AI. I expect it'll get better in a few more months, though.

[Demorve]

I haven't played since the 1.2 patch first came out. I'm still patching my game and hoping for some AI improvements, but the last time I played I got the feeling that SEV is an inferior version of SEIV with some bad design decisions. However I am patient enough to wait and see if all the problems (bugs and design) get fixed.

[Kamog]

I still play SEV, but my games tend to not last very long because after several hours of playing, I get tired of all the annoying things about the game: the crashes during processing, bugs, problems with the user interface, etc. It stops being fun. So I stop and don't play for a week or two. Then I forget about the frustrations and I start a new game, and repeat. Sometimes I go back to playing SEIV. With each patch, SEV gets better but it's still got problems that make it not-so-fun to play.

[CaptainAL]

For some reason, the graphics gives me a headache. Guess I'm more of a straight strategy player. I will give it a shot on PBW when I have more time.

[Ragnarok-X]

Thanks for the votes and comment at this point. I feel just liek Raapys does. Im waiting for a new patch, and thats what i ve been doing since the first patch.

[Fyron]

I wish there was an option between "once in a while" and "all day."

Does "modding" count as "playing?" heh

[Will]

Voted "haven't played for weeks", but it's really "months". But that's more due to major life changes than to the state of the game. I haven't had a period of time where I could just sit down for 2 or 3 hours and just explore the game, there have always been other things that took priority. I wouldn't want to join in on a PBW/PbEM game until I took the time with the game individually, especially since I haven't really played anything except the demo. I have the full game, and I installed and played for an hour or so when the first patch came out, but then I had to pack up everything and move. So, haven't come back to it since.

I actually think I might take a shot at PBWv2 in some of my weekend spare time someday soon. The major hurdle I had been facing is not knowing what needed to go into the design of an application like PBW, but I've been doing nothing but JSPs and servlets at work for the past two months, so I have a much better idea of how to go about things now. I'll post a new thread if I ever actually get that started. You will forgive me if I sneak in a few SEIV and SEV games before I do http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Atrocities]

The UI makes it impossible to play. Sorry guys, but after many months of continuous play I have come to the conclusion that while the game is good, the UI makes it too much like a job and thereby to frustrating for me to play.

I should not get depressed playing a game, and regrettably SE V depresses me horribly. The damn UI is just so user unfriendly.

[Ragnarok-X]

Heh, actually i thought about replacing weeks with months because i believe whoever didnt play in weeks didnt play in months either. But i decided doing so would be too rough.

[aegisx]

I find the UI perfectly friendly and play in PBW games, good stuff http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Uncle_Joe]

Same thing as a lot of the above guys....I play each time the new patch comes out and so far each time, I give up in frustration.

Waiting on the next patch....

[DarkAnt]

I just can't play the game because of the horrid interface and that's saying something because I love dwarf fortress(terrible UI).

[Atrocities]

The game is really a good game, its the UI that makes it not playable for me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif That doesn't mean that other won't like and or enjoy the game. I love the game, just hate the UI.

[Randallw]

IT surprises me how many people here aren't playing it. Apart from some trouble before the first patch I haven't had any trouble. I think I just don't let little things bother me, although I have never had any trouble with the UI.

[AgentZero]

Hell, I'm playing it right now. I'm having great fun with the Balance Mod, and pitting Star Trek TMP ships against the Cylons is just sweetness (even if those pesky Cylon troops happen to be invisible).

Honestly, the UI doesn't bother me as much as it used to. It's like Guinness, I think. Not that pleasant at first, but really rather enjoyable once you get used to it.

[thorfrog]

I just don't like this game. For me it's the MOO3 story all over. The interface needs an overhaul. Galciv2:DA has been taking most of my time.

[Fyron]

You can't possibly compare SE5 and MOO3. SE5 has not been abandoned by the developer, and is actively being improved. SE5 did not have the fundamental game design drastically cut and altered in the final stages of development. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[David E. Gervais]

My only question is how many people posting here have 'never' played SE:IV. All the 'UI Issues' seem to stem from comparison to SE4. Like listening to people who are extremely resistant to change. I'm not saying you are wrong to do so. I'm saying that opinions based on comparison are not 'fresh views'.

Personally I find nothing wrong with the UI in terms of functionality. (my only rub is I do not like the SE3 % type of research allocation, I much prefer the way SE4 did it with queues.)

Stats: Since the release of SE5 Aaron has made 656 fixes, changes, and additions. That my friends is allot of hard work. Rest assured Aaron will continue to make changes, additions and fixes for a good long time. He wants this to be the best it can be. (as do we all) but he is just one man. IMHO He puts other developers to shame when it comes to listening to their fans and catering to their wishes.

You can nit pick till the cows come home, or you can let the new design grow on you. SE5 is sooooo much more 'Modable' than SE4. You can tell that Aaron had 'Modding Features' as one of his top priorities. This is a Modder's game come true. It could well have been called "Space Empires Construction Set" (including the basic game engine to build upon).

Anyways, I think you people are judging by comparison and each and every one of you see what you believe is a 'better way to do it' and in seeing this become obsessed fail to see and adapt to the games current state.

Nuf said.

Cheers! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Ragnarok-X]

Question is, why was the game released in the first way ?

Should those 656 fixes, changes and addition not be done BEFORE release ?

[Will]

Ragnarok-X said:
Question is, why was the game released in the first way ?

Should those 656 fixes, changes and addition not be done BEFORE release ?


Did you see the anticipation around here leading up to release? It had to be released sometime, and it was released in a form that was at least playable for the most part. At some point you have to decide that you need to ship and can do patches along the way. If we had to wait for every single bug to be tracked down and fixed, then this community would not be what it is, and I might or might not be sitting around with the SEIII community waiting for the 1.0 release of SEIV.

And DEG, I think most of the complaints about the UI are how tedious it made doing simple things. When I had played months ago (around first patch release), SEV had a nasty habit of making me click through multiple dialogs to get anything done. I don't even remember anymore what the actions were that I was trying to do, but in general for UIs, it is best to be able to accomplish common tasks with one click or one keystroke, and reserve the multi-level dialogs for actions that are taken rarely in the game.

[Ragnarok-X]

Will said:
Did you see the anticipation around here leading up to release? It had to be released sometime, and it was released in a form that was at least playable for the most part. At some point you have to decide that you need to ship and can do patches along the way. If we had to wait for every single bug to be tracked down and fixed, then this community would not be what it is, and I might or might not be sitting around with the SEIII community waiting for the 1.0 release of SEIV.




Sure. However, if even a LOT of beta-testers were VERY worried about a release at that time, i think thast should weight more.

[aegisx]

I never played SEIV much, so maybe thats why I don't have a problem with the SEV interface.

As for bugs in game releases, that seems to be the way the world is moving, not something malfador invented. I am sure they would have rather had more time, but its a business. That is both good and bad. back before the internet was common, you'd buy a game and that was pretty much it. Of course, that meant the game had to be solid, but that wasn't always the case. Now at least there is a possibility of fixes and getting more content.

SEV is as close as I've gotten to the old PBEM 4x strategy games that just had rules, no programs. You can do so much http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[se5a]

the main beef I have about SEV UI is the loss of the single click to add items to queues.

that, and some places where it needs cleaning up a bit, like the size of the combat log in the news.

[Atrocities]

David,

Its not change that I am resistant too. Its lack of function, less information, more clicks, bad organization, and a sincere lack of inspiration that make me dislike the UI. I like the visual look of the UI, but in most cases it lacks the depth and attention to information detail that SE IV's DOS like UI had. I miss seeing what I need to see at a glance. The new FILTER system is a PITA and often requires many clicks to find the info you need. In SE IV it was a simple matter to get to the info you wanted, in SE V it is not.

The pointless features of the UI that do absolutely nothing to help the game like clicking on the main image and it brings up a larger view of it but with NO information. WTH is the point to that? Clicking on the main image should bring up information about that object, not just a larger view of it.

Click fest is not something my index finger enjoys either.

Sure I am spoiled because SEIV was a well thought out design that provided much needed simple information at a glance whereas SE V's UI doesn't.

All this aside, I can never recall a time where I was frustrated by SE IV's UI and gave up playing the game because of it. While I love the game, the UI is simply to aggravating for me to deal with over long periods. It ruins the gaming experience for me and frustrates the hell out of me. I am sorry but that is the God's honest truth.

Aaron has made a wonderfully deliteful game in SE V. No one can deny that say for the few who are hooked up on moo3 comparisons. I am in no way knocking the game, it is a great 4x game and one that I highly recommend for purchase, but for me the ONLY issue that keeps me from playing it are the UI issues that annoy me. I have faith though that over time many of them will be ironed out and that keeps my hope running high. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Fyron]

se5a said:
the main beef I have about SEV UI is the loss of the single click to add items to queues.

You can generally double click, which is pretty much the same action.

[Suicide Junkie]

Except when trying to add multiple items.

Se4:
1,2,3 of that. 1,2 of those.

...With only small movements of the mouse down the list
...a list in which you can see 19-20 items without scrolling, rather than just 5 or 6


There is really no doubt that SE4's UI is vastly superior.
The debate is really whether SE5's UI is good enough on its own. I'd say a non-emphatic yes.

[Fyron]

Even then, double click takes roughly as much time as single click. The list could certainly stand to show more items, but I don't see any fundamental issues with double vs. single click.

[Slick]

Oh, come on. The UI has many many issues. Even though people got hung up on one of the things I listed, here's a sizable list (yes, a few have been reported fixed in the as yet unlreleased latest versions), but there are a lot more UI problems than just a double click issue.

Link (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB23&Number=485786&Forum= f23,f204,f199,f150,f59,f128,f105,f200,f201,f202&Wo rds=slick&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Main=485786&Search =true&where=sub&Name=&daterange=1&newerval=5&newer type=y&olderval=&oldertype=&bodyprev=#Post485786)
Edit: Fixed the crazy-long link

[Fyron]

Didn't say or imply there weren't.

[Suicide Junkie]

There is no problem with a doubleclick if you have to do it only occasionally.

[Atrocities]

I see the spread is pretty even and stable. Despite its flaws SE V is still the best 4x game to come out in the last five years. (Say for SE IV Gold)

[Kamog]

SEIV was addictive. The more I played it, the more I wanted to continue playing. SEV is the opposite. The more I play it, the more frustrating it becomes and I increasingly want to do something else other than play SEV. And I don't think it's just because I'm used to SEIV and I'm resistant to change. I had no problem switching from SEIII to SEIV many years ago even though I was used to SEIII and SEIV was different. I really want to like SEV. I've started many games of SEV and spent dozens of hours playing it, to get used to the interface.

The main problem I have with SEV is the crashes. In order to not have the game get stuck while processing turns, I have to keep saving the game, quitting SEV and restarting every 5 turns or so. Otherwise the turns go slower and slower until it eventually crashes. If the memory leak problem gets fixed, that will solve about 50% of the frustration for me.

The other frustration I have with SEIV is the user interface. It's not so much the number of mouse clicks or the way the menus are organized that is really the biggest problem. I could live with the awkward user interface if all the functionality I wanted was available somewhere, even it took a lot of clicking. One of the annoying things is that some of the screens get increasingly cluttered as the game progresses. For example, the obsolete ship designs never seem to disappear from the ship list in the combat simulator, so after a while you've got hundreds of old ship designs in the list that you don't want and can't get rid of. You can't delete old construction queue fill lists so they pile up as well. Plus I agree with a lot things from Slick's list, especially the ones related to the ship design screen.

[Slick]

Fyron: My bad. I guess it looks like I was responding to your comment but I was just making a general statement.

SJ: thanks for the edit. And I also agree with the double click position. I think they are just another mostly unnecessary time consumer in the UI. *checks wrists for Carpal Tunnel Syndrome*

[Atrocities]

SEIV was addictive. The more I played it, the more I wanted to continue playing. SEV is the opposite. The more I play it, the more frustrating it becomes and I increasingly want to do something else other than play SEV. And I don't think it's just because I'm used to SEIV and I'm resistant to change. I had no problem switching from SEIII to SEIV many years ago even though I was used to SEIII and SEIV was different. I really want to like SEV. I've started many games of SEV and spent dozens of hours playing it, to get used to the interface.



I couldn't have put it better.


For example, the obsolete ship designs never seem to disappear from the ship list in the combat simulator, so after a while you've got hundreds of old ship designs in the list that you don't want and can't get rid of.



My understanding is that this is a feature and intended to be this way. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif x 10 to the 10th power.

Very Nice list Slick.


Allow turn progressing with game minimized.


This has been fixed in a recent patch.

[Fyron]

Never being able to simulate with obsolete designs would be terrible. Rarely do you have an empire consisting of only the utmost latest designs, along with all of your enemies' empires. The screen could still use a toggle, of course, but it should never just filter out all obsolete designs automatically.

[Spectarofdeath]

I was playing with the balance mod and having fun with the shipsets, but even in a small universe with just 5-7 empires the turn processing was taking way too long. Probably going to try it again once this new patch is released since it's supposed to speed up combat and allow the turn to process even with the window minimized (YEA!!!) I would have prefered the SEIV interface to the new one, because it just seemed more friendly. When I click on a facility I should be given the option of upgrading or scraping there, not having to exit out of planet view, click on the planet, go to the CARGO menu (I never knew buildings were CARGO) and then scrap it. Not saying the new one is all bad. It's not a game breaker for me.

[StarJack]

Once in a while I'll play for a while, wishing the interface wasn't a clickfest. Wishing I didn't have to play detective to figure out why a fleet with overwhelming superiority turned and ran this time. Wishing something as SIMPLE as a 'Systems to Avoid' filter was available on the Planets List menu so the send colonizer button could be used to simplify at least one aspect of this game. Wishing it didn't take several seconds to pull up a menu in large games, and minutes to process a turn. Wishing the person who wrote the game actually played it, to have a better feel for the UI and game play in general.

Mostly, that addictive pull to play 'just one more turn' that was ever present in SEIV just does not exist in SEV. I usually just quit in frustration because once again a perfectly healthy and well supplied and ordinanced fleet turns tail and runs instead of flattening a nearly defenseless planet. Or I get tired of waiting on menus to pop up, or turns to process, or a stupid AI decision makes me realize I'm playing against one of the most retarded AI's ever produced for a game.

And I wait, and wonder IF the game will get much better, and how many more months that will take. If it wasn't for a handful of helpful people on this forum, and the modders, I would've uninstalled the game right after purchase.

[Atrocities]

Mostly, that addictive pull to play 'just one more turn' that was ever present in SEIV just does not exist in SEV.



I have been trying to think of how to best describe what I feel when I play SE V. Your comment nailed it. A sincere lack of JOMT Syndrome. In other words, the game doesn't produce a sufficient high. A failing that does not make this game an addictive product.

[aegisx]

Maybe its a product of age. I haven't had that syndrome since MOO2. I don't really attribute the lack of it to the games though.

[Atrocities]

The game itself is a very good game. The UI though makes it a very frustrating game to play. However in time much of the UI issues will either be worked out or learned to be accepted as characters of the game and accepted.

[Spectarofdeath]

Yeah, I agree there Aegisx, I remember when I was a teenager me and my friend would pull all nighters playing games like Civ 2, Flashback, Shadowrun, General chaos, P.T.O., Syndicate wars, Starflight, games like that, and just never get bored. Even if we beat a game we'd get together the next weekend and start over. Even MOO2, we'd have 2 person teams, 1 researcher and 1 warrior each team. It just never got old. I think the last game that was that addicting was Alpha Centauri. SEIV was kinda like that. I was addicted to it, but only due to the mods, not to the stock, which really doesn't count since none of the others were modded.

[Fyron]

Civ 2 not modded? Oh my... moddability was one of its strong points.

[AgentZero]

The MoO mod for Civ2 was classic. In some ways even more fun that the original MoO.

[Spectarofdeath]

Ehhh civ for SNES, not pc

[Atrocities]

Could you play SE V without the use of a key board? I ask this because with the improvements that we are now seeing in consoles such as the X-Box 360, PS3, and Wii, a game such as SE V, dumbed down a bit, might just be feasible... ?

[Phoenix-D]

The console developers control what can be put on their consoles. And the most complicated TBS I've seen on one is Advanced Wars. Not a good sign. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Raapys]

Ironically, consoles are turning more and more into regular computers, soon the only difference will be that they use the TV as opposed to a computer screen.

I've yet to have a good experience with a PC-game-gone-console, though. In all cases I can remember it has degraded the PC experience immensly. Especially concerning UI/Controls, since the developers are usually too lazy to develop seperate systems for both platforms.

[Fyron]

Case in point: Oblivion. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/Sick.gif

[Spectarofdeath]

The problem is the cross platforming. They make a game for PC then "attempt" to bring it to a console, and vice versa. It just doesn't work.

[PvK]

The games I've been seriously interested in (or if you will, addicted to, playing heavily for years and years) since moving from Atari computers http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif to Micro$oft are:

Tigers on the Prowl / Panthers in the Shadows
Myth: The Fallen Lords / Myth II: Soulblighter / mods
Space Empires III / Space Empires IV Gold modded
Combat Mission (all)
Dominions PPP / Dominions II, Dominions 3

At the minimum, they all want a mouse, and not some retarded console controller. Keyboards are nice to have, too. Even the action games I've been moderately hooked on work better with keyboard and mouse, or joystick, than a console spaz blob.

Consoles are mainly a lame way to abuse customers and the art of computer gaming for crass corporate exploitation, in my opinion. Sort of good for some action games for kids, and to keep kids off the computer, but not much more except a big annoyance for gamers with eldritch tastes like mine. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

PvK

[AgentZero]

I just don't get why console games still have 'save points'. I mean, consoles have had some sort of storage capability for years, and the next-gen ones seem to come with decently sized hard drives, so why the save points?

More to the point, why do they still have save points when the game is ported to the PC?

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Imperator Fyron said:
Case in point: Oblivion. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/Sick.gif



So much anticipation...So much dissapointment...

Oh, and the *Real* Cyrodil is a jungle! Why can't they keep to their own canon?

[Raapys]

And removing the levitation spell? That's like removing flying from the superman movies. No thanks, I'll stick with Daggerfall, and a Space Empires that doesn't go into the console market.

[Parasite]

The 0-1 FPS refresh speed really gets me. 10 mins of moving the mouse a bit at a time to get it over a button, just does me in after about 5 mins. Yes, well I guess I need a newer computer. Paying around $50 for the privlege of playing the game and for all the great support from Aaron, easy call. Paying $2000+ dollars to get a new computer JUST so I can play this one game. Sorry.

[aegisx]

It is funny people still say $2,000 computer. A 2 grand system is pretty crazy these days. The system I am on is a 2.8ghz p4, 1.5gb ram (system was bought over 2 years ago for < $750 from Dell) and a 128mb AGP (no PCI-E here) Video card that was $150 3 years ago (so not top of the line then). No issues here with speed.

I cannot even play Supreme Commander due to the age of my video card http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[Fyron]

Yeah, $2,000 for a good PC is so 1999... $750 is even overkill for SE5. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Suicide Junkie]

I got this entire system I'm running SE5 on (and applying that warppoint generator to) for $300 even in January.

And due to sheer laziness I haven't even bothered to put a real video card in yet. The onboard is good enough for procrastination to kick in http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[GuyOfDoom]

aegisx said:
It is funny people still say $2,000 computer. A 2 grand system is pretty crazy these days. The system I am on is a 2.8ghz p4, 1.5gb ram (system was bought over 2 years ago for < $750 from Dell) and a 128mb AGP (no PCI-E here) Video card that was $150 3 years ago (so not top of the line then). No issues here with speed.

I cannot even play Supreme Commander due to the age of my video card http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif



From what I've looked into if you even want to sneeze at the newer games coming out you need to invest at LEAST $2000.

[aegisx]

I don't know about that. I could buy a $150 video card for my system now and be able to play the latest games. You don't need dual/quad core for any games, you don't need SLI cards that cost $500.

For example. Vanguard Saga of Heroes is a new WoW kinda game that is supposed to be pretty hefty with the graphics:

Processor 2.4 GHz Intel processor or 2400+ or higher model AMD processor
512 MB RAM
Vertex and Pixel Shader 2.0 compatible hardware with 128MB of texture memory
16X Speed DVD-ROM
20 Gigabytes Hard Drive Space

My 2+ year old cheap system just needs a new video card for it. That is the minimum, I probably would need a new system to play with the Max settings, but I certainly could play it.

[Fyron]

GuyOfDoom said:
From what I've looked into if you even want to sneeze at the newer games coming out you need to invest at LEAST $2000.

Not really. You only need a $2,000 system to play them at gigantic resolutions and max settings.

[GuyOfDoom]

Interesting. I've been debating on planning my next machine sometime soon. I might consult you guys first.

[Phoenix-D]

GuyOfDoom said:
From what I've looked into if you even want to sneeze at the newer games coming out you need to invest at LEAST $2000.



I built mine for $800 (guts only- no case/KB/mouse/monitor, those were re-used) a year ago, and it still runs every game I've thrown at it fine. Including Supreme Commander, at 1280x1024 mid detail..

[aegisx]

My video card just doesn't support the pixel shader Supreme Commander uses :/ That game looks really good though.

[Ragnarok-X]

Bought mine in October 06 for about 1700 $. Plays Supcom at 1280 * 1024 just fine.

[MrToxin]

I keep getting distracted by EVE and Counter-Strike.

[Kamog]

I haven't played SEV at all for the last couple of weeks. When the new patch comes out, I'll start a new game.

[Spectarofdeath]

Same here. Once the turn processing gets fixed. I'm hoping some more shipsets come out soon too. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[frightlever]

When buying a new computer just buy whatever's cheap from an OEM with the processor you want (assuming you want Vista on it buying off an OEM is going to be the cheapest way to get the OS). Then upgrade the memory and grafix card. A thousand bucks should get you something with dual core, 2GB ram and an 8800 grafix card. The MB will be rubbish but you're not going to be trying to overclock it anyway if you're doing this on the cheap. It's the machine with everything tricked out to give you 10% more performance that's going to cost two grand.

Anyway, SEV... I haven't played properly for weeks but I usually try a game when IRM or BM gets updated. Still finding no challenge from the AI though so it's quite dull.

Since the demo was released I've railed against the UI so it's gratifying to see Atrocities admit I was right after all. Though TBH I'm fine with the UI now except for the clumsy filters. Which isn't to say I wouldn't still like to see a proper 2D system view and the option to have a square view to maximise the screen - yeah, just like in SEIV.

[Atrocities]

Since the demo was released I've railed against the UI so it's gratifying to see Atrocities admit I was right after all.



Huh?
I have gone back through my posts and can assure you that I have made no such statement. To the best of my recollection I have always stated that the UI has been the most definitively identified negative aspect of the game. Now that most of the bug issues have been addressed I am hopeful that following AI improvements, the UI will be polished. Priorities are what they are and bug fixes will always be at top of the to be fixed queue. UI issues are generally relegated to the bottom of the list of things that need addressing. But eventually they are looked at and in most cases taken care of. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I agree though, the filters do need work as they seem to be as you say rather "clumsy."

[Ragnarok-X]

Yes, i agree with AC, he never stated the UI is good as it is.

[Fyron]

frightlever said:
Since the demo was released I've railed against the UI so it's gratifying to see Atrocities admit I was right after all.

You would be hard pressed to find any beta testers (AT included) stating that the UI is excellent.

[Raapys]

Am I the only one who doesn't really like the new 3D system view? I see people complain about the UI all the time, but I can't recall other people mentioning the system view.

To me it feels really awkward; the camera is strange going back and forth but rotates to the sides(?), you never really get the entire system inside the window at the same time, the screen icons and such are obviously not designed to work with the top-down style( thus rendering it useless ), etc.

It's night to day compared with SE IV's excellent top-down 2D view.

[Suicide Junkie]

The SE5 system view isn't unusable, but it is certainly very wasteful of screen space.

SE4 showed who was present and how many ships they had, using only a 24x10 pixel area.
SE5 gives you the choice of illegible blobs at 50x30 pixels or gigantic blocks that blot out the view of multiple hexes. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

We should bug Aaron to use 2D text, like Starfury had, instead of this huge, blurry 3D stuff.

[gregebowman]

Well, my first downloaded version of the demo had some errors on it, so I'm downloading another version of it. As long as my computer can play that, I'll be a happy camper. I'd love to be able to play Civ4, but it's taken me a year to get my computer working. I'll have to be patient for the higher requirement games.

[Xietor]

SEV is an embarrassment. They made money on it, but marketed an inferior product. It is a shame it was not tested more and fixed before release. SEiv was good mp, but the AI is terrible.

But at least SEiv is playable. No game, calling itself a game, should take 5 minutes to do a turn. That is just absurd.
And on a computer that runs WOW with no lag issues too.

[Yimboli]

@gregebowman: civ4 is definitely worth it!!!! havent tried the expansion though. I've spent hours playing civ4 over tcp with my friend across the country while talking on skype

[GuyOfDoom]

But at least SEiv is playable. No game, calling itself a game, should take 5 minutes to do a turn. That is just absurd.



What kind of TURN based games do you play? Any turn based game takes time between turns.

[Yimboli]

Of course all turn based games take time to process turns. Without trying to sound rude, I'm simply not sure what the point of your post was.

At any rate, I think Xietor is trying to say SE5 takes too long to process turns. I'm inclined to agree.

At least that's what I took from it.

[Xietor]

I play tons of turn based games, and none take the time SEV takes. In fact, even SEIV does not take nearly as long. It is obviously a bug that has not been fixed prior to release.

I have played about every good turn based game that has come out in the past 15 years, going all the way back to vga planets, masters of might and magic, and the original civilization.

[GuyOfDoom]

It's clear there is still a processing lag with the AI that hardly makes it the worst game ever, or a total ripoff.

[Xietor]

It is embarrassing it was released prior to making the fix that would allow the processing of turns to take place much faster. In my honest opinion, the game is unplayable with the time it takes to process a turn as things stand now.

I am not slamming the game itself, as i think it will be a worthy successor to IV once that glaring bug is fixed.

[Suicide Junkie]

The best games of SE4 take over an hour to process for a hearty battle.

[se5a]

how long do the total war serries take to do AI turns when there are large battles?

[Fyron]

Xietor said:
In fact, even SEIV does not take nearly as long.


It is a non-sequitor to compare SE4 and SE5 processing times when combat occurs (not to mention every other TBS game with non-RT combat). There is nothing at all comparable between a simple turn-based combat system and a real time combat engine. Real time combat (in SE5) has on the order of 20 rounds per second of combat time to deal with. Compare that to the simple 30 rounds of SE4, the non-rounds of Civ/GalCiv1 simple att/def calculations, etc. Comparing to something like Rome: Total War has merit (though its combats are an order of magnitude less complex than SE5), but not anything with simple turn-based combat.

Could it be faster? Yes. Is Aaron working hard to make it faster? Yes.

[Captain Kwok]

Fyron, you forgot to add "Is it at least 4x faster with the upcoming patch? Yes." in your comments. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Kamog]

4x faster with the next patch? That's excellent. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Phoenix-D]

se5a said:
how long do the total war serries take to do AI turns when there are large battles?



Very little. They don't actually simulate the tactical battles, though- they just roll dice.

This can produce odd results. I once lost a battle (60% of my forced killed, 20% of the enemy) in auto-resolve. I went back a turn, ran it myself, and without ANY tactical consideration what-so-ever won it with only 10% losses to my force..

[Raapys]

Pretty much all turn-based games just roll the dice on auto-resolve. I'm not sure what I'd prefer. It's certainly nice to be able to have very fast turn processing, but I'm not fond of odd battle outcomes. I'm not sure how auto-resolve would actually function in a game like Space Empires though, considering you design the ships manually.

[Spectarofdeath]

Plus you can minimize in the next patch I belive. Big plus there.

[Xietor]

I will add, despite my disappointment in the time it takes to process a turn, I do have confidence that the game will be fixed given the history and evolution of this game.

And I would not accept a full refund for it if it was offered. So I do like the game, and intend to play it once the processing of turns becomes more user friendly. But in response to the poll, I am not presently playing it.

[Atrocities]

If I could get refunds on games these are the games I would want my money back on.

Moo3
Ages Of Empire III
Civ III
SimCity 4
Tribes Vengeance (:()
Quake 4
Doom 3
Half Life 2
Unreal 2
Reach for the stars
Various star trek games
Various civil war games
But mostly MOO3 and CIV 3.

[AgentZero]

I'd agree with most of that list, except MoO3, SimCity 4, Tribes, Doom 3 & Unreal 2, since I never bought those. But hey, if you want to offer me a refund anyway, I won't say no.

But seriously, Reach for the Stars. I bought it because it got a good review, and played it for about 3 days before giving up on it entirely. It was, to quote Fyron, positively mehtacular.

[Atrocities]

I could only play it for about four hours before uninstalling it. However I hear they recently, as long ago as two years, released version 1.4 of the game that improved it greatly. Too bad I gave the game disk away to good will. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Any one here ever play Imperium Galatica II?

[Fyron]

IG2 is not worth your time or money.

[Xietor]

I will agree that Moo III ranks as my all time biggest disappointment, especially given how excellent MooII was.

It would be awesome if someday the random hero thing of mooII
could be incorporated into SE. That sort of event was exciting.

[Phoenix-D]

Well, keep in mind also that SR5's processing time is supposed to improve in the next patch and it isn't completely due to combat.

[Atrocities]

Imperator Fyron said:
IG2 is not worth your time or money.



Oh I already own the game, but have never really ever played it. I played the demo, bought the game back in 2000 but cannot recall if I have ever installed and played it. I recall thinking that it was interesting but very limited in scope.

[Raapys]

There's two things messing up SE V's turn processing times, from what I can see. The first is the slow system ship movement( which was even worse a few patches ago ), the second is the combat calculations. The actual AI scripts, i.e. 'thinking', doesn't appear to take any time at all.

I don't understand why 32x time rate ( or 64x for that matter ) wasn't included in the game in the first place, though. And what kind of CPU does one need to actually take full advantage of the 32x mode in a regular-sized combat? Does all beta testers get four times as fast combat on 32x vs 8x mode?

[Suicide Junkie]

Well, the main problem is the whole idea that combat should be calculated at any "X-speed".

It should be processed at the speed of math.

[Fyron]

Atrocities said:
Oh I already own the game, but have never really ever played it.

Well, you still have your time. Don't squander it on IG2.

[AgentZero]

IG2 was entertaining enough until I realized that my multiple mixed fleets were an utter waste of time, and that I was much better off building one massive fleet of battleships, or whatever the biggest hull size was, and just send them tromping around the galaxy, trouncing all in their path. The AI was pretty mediocre too, there's some 'plotline' in the game about an evil race building up a super fleet to come wipe out the rest of sentience in the galaxy & you're supposed to go about trying to form a grand alliance with the other races to defend yourselves, but by the time the story got to that point, I was well on the way to wiping out the evil 'super' race, and when their 'super fleet' spawned, my fleet was about 10 times bigger and wiped it out quite easily.

But if you've already bought the thing, I don't think it's quite as bad as Fyron says, there's at least a few hours of entertainment to be had from it.

[Artaud]

Atrocities said:
If I could get refunds on games these are the games I would want my money back on.

Moo3
Ages Of Empire III
Civ III
SimCity 4
Tribes Vengeance (:()
Quake 4
Doom 3
Half Life 2
Unreal 2
Reach for the stars
Various star trek games
Various civil war games
But mostly MOO3 and CIV 3.



Oh Civ 3 -- I loved it when it came out and still do!

I'd love a refund on Doom 3 though...

[SothoTalKer]

I wait for the next patch to arrive before i try my luck with SEV again. Which should have been 2 weeks ago, but will happen next week.