Law of the Commonwealth

[Amos]

Version 0.13

[Juzza]

Hey there! mind if I share my opinion my opinion of the mod? hope not!

I think things may be almost underpowered considering their cost like, the light blades, they cost, what 16 or 19 gold thats a lot for the weakest unit and their not even particularly worth it, the cold resistance shouldn't really add to the cost that much I mean, the Atlantian deep ones have both 50% fire and cold and they don't cost 16 gold!

So, if I were you, I would lower the units gold cost a little, or make then a tinsy bit tougher, thanks for listing.

[Amos]

Hey there! mind if I share my opinion my opinion of the mod? hope not!




I appreciate any comments.


I think things may be almost underpowered considering their cost like, the light blades, they cost, what 16 or 19 gold thats a lot for the weakest unit and their not even particularly worth it, the cold resistance shouldn't really add to the cost that much I mean, the Atlantian deep ones have both 50% fire and cold and they don't cost 16 gold!




I'm not balancing against vanilla (I mean what nation would you balance against? R'lyeh that can summon dozens of Vastness free of charge, or Ermor that summons hundreds of undead, or the permanently underpowered Mictlan?) , but even if I did I would be balancing whole nations not individual units. This mod is one of my more vanilla friendly mods but its a basic structure. It will change when I have some time to play with it.
When I balance I do it against internal consistency of a mod, not against other mods.

[Amos]

Version 0.02

Added 5 more units in 2 summoning spells.

[Amos]

Gave "Defense Form" Lightning and raised the cost to 10 gems.

[Shovah32]

I think the defense form is either very underpowered or far too expensive. It dosnt look particularly useful in battle(1 decent ranged attack) and its fortress defence bonus is far too low for its cost(i can get the same bonus from a 130 gold commander)

[Amos]

It has two forms so it has twice as much hp. But I'll drop it back down to 7 gems.

Uploaded.

[Amos]

Frigates cost 70 gp for upkeep purposes.

[Juzza]

I really like this mod Amos, its very different from all the other nations, though, the commanders are ment to be far supiror than the troops right? whenever I find myself playing it I end up with a about 10 of Those Elders with 5 water magic destroying armies with falling frost, I find most of the troops just act as guards for them not going a lot of damage themselves.

[Shovah32]

I play slightly differently: I find a chokepoint and load it up with those builder guys in terraforming mode then raid deeply with wormholes, ships and the units generated by builders.

[Amos]

Thats what I hope for when I make my mods. That, although the mod stays true to itself, there are many different avenues of playing it.

Version 0.03

Added a third hero.

[Amos]

Version 0.04

Lowered prices.

I wouldnt call this mod vanilla balanced. More like vanilla friendly.

[normalphil]

I've played it and I like it, it's a good npc for me. I'm curious about why it was decided to place it in middle-era, though.

[Amos]

I already have 4 nations in LE, the magic is too high and there is no LE armor in the mod.

[Amos]

Fixed magicboost error.

[Amos]

Version 0.06

-Inventory fixed;
-Teacher, Messenger and the Book of Law lower unrest.

[Amos]

There was a mistake in "Energy Shield". For some reason I put the value in protection instead of in parry (recent post reminded me to check). Fixed and uploaded.

[Amos]

Added new spell "Craft Turret". Tell me if it should cost more.

[DrPraetorious]

Amos, are there more than 3 mods in the trade confederation arc? Do some of them replace others?

Which 3 are most current? Obviously this matters mainly for megamod purposes.

[Sombre]

Is there a trade confederation arc?

The only nation called Trade Confederation I've seen is this one:

LA Trade Confederation, New Dawn


Then there's this mod, which is:

MA Commonwealth, Landfall


Are they part of the same arc?

[Amos]

They are not in the same arc. Trade Confederation is a stand alone mod. I just used some of its numbers for this one. What I meant before was that if the Trade Confederation was an MA mod then New Crobuzon would be its LA.

[WraithLord]

Amos, Just a thought here:
I think your mods have reached a critical mass that may justify opening a new thread that summarizes and classifies them. I for one am constantly hunting through the threads here to get all the updates for your various mods. Well worth the trouble but I think it would be cool to have info. and access to all your mods from one thread.

[Amos]

There is the Mod List. All my mods are nicely grouped together in MODDER PROFILES at the bottom of the first thread.

[WraithLord]

This mod list is cool http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Thanks.

[Amos]

All thanks must go to Sombre. Its his baby.

[Amos]

Version 0.07

A lot of small sprite changes.
Raised "Warden of the Law" att and def by 1.
I'm thinking of giving Heavy guys a shield. There is almost no reason to recruit them otherwise.

[DrPraetorious]

Very handsome. I particularly like the simian.

Perhaps the Elder units should be capital only? Capital admin of 10 would be kinda crippling, so maybe not. A Jeweled City could also be made of ice, perhaps (that's admin 40.)

Suggest a national spell that lets you put up a Crystal Citadel for water gems, at a relatively low construction level (that's effect 10063, damage 24); also, I think the alteration nationals should be construction.

The elder units are kinda fragile for a size 4 unit - their strength and hit points seem more like size 3 to me (the simian has absolutely huge wings so that's okay.) If they're that fragile for their size, maybe the description should reflect this?

Several of these units could have a much higher MR (the sacreds, the Teacher of the Law.)

410 gold is kinda a lot for your only priest - I understand that this is deliberate, but the effect will be to get people to use indie priests exclusively.

Why did you rename all the ice equipment? Are you planning to change the stats, later? Otherwise, it's kinda confusing.

Yeah, give the heavy sword and shadow of the law an ice aegis (or crafted shield, if you wish). Warden could maybe have two winged swords? With a strat move of 2 and a shield they'd be worth taking productivity to recruit.

[Amos]

Suggest a national spell that lets you put up a Crystal Citadel for water gems, at a relatively low construction level (that's effect 10063, damage 24)



I like that. I'll do some testing.


If they're that fragile for their size, maybe the description should reflect this?

Several of these units could have a much higher MR (the sacreds, the Teacher of the Law.)




I'll do that.


Why did you rename all the ice equipment? Are you planning to change the stats, later? Otherwise, it's kinda confusing.




What did you mean by that? Could you elaborate?


410 gold is kinda a lot for your only priest - I understand that this is deliberate, but the effect will be to get people to use indie priests exclusively.



That was intended. I may need to give more reasons for recruiting the Teachers.

[DrPraetorious]

All of the equipment you've given them has the same stats as the equivalent caelum ice equipment but you gave it different names, is all.

Given that, from the descriptions, it sounds like the same stuff, this seemed a bit odd, that's all.

[Amos]

I just wanted to give them my own names for the flavor.

[Amos]

I think the alteration nationals should be construction.




The construction tree is too limiting in the spell placement.


Several of these units could have a much higher MR (the sacreds, the Teacher of the Law.)




They have low mr on purpose. But I think I'll give them a +1.


Yeah, give the heavy sword and shadow of the law an ice aegis (or crafted shield, if you wish).



I was struggling with the shield question. In the end I decided against giving them shields. You get most of them through province defense without recruiting. I'll think what to do about Shadow.

[Amos]

Version 0.08

- New spell "Craft Citadel";
- Raised resource cost for Energy Shield;
- Warden got patrol bonus;
- Shadow got stealth bonus and +1 to def & mr;
- Elders and Teacher got +1 to mr.

[Necroant]

Ships are too skilled in Astral. They can cast imprint soul, afair without boosters, and craft rings of sourcery(of wizardry too, if given a crystall coin/RoS). IMHO you need to lover their skill and requirements of "Wormhole" spell to 4 or even 3. Wormhole is national, so there's nothing too bad will hapen.

[Necroant]

Played a bit more. Spotted that Book of law has Holy 1 and Sacred. This is strange - always thought that pretender can't be a priest of itself.

[DrPraetorious]

I believe that in the current version, pretender/priests do not crash the game, but personally I avoid using them (either all of the pretenders should be priests, or none, is my feeling.)

I'm not 100% sure of this, though - do you sometimes still get the "no unholiness" error?

[Amos]

Raised the "Craft Ship" cost to 50. There is no need to drastically change a unit if you can simply tweak its price.
As for holy magic, I'm of the opinion that most pretenders should have holy magic (unless the chassis is simply inappropriate for it). After much debate I've started to add the holy magic frugally in cases when I felt the pretender just couldnt do without.

[Necroant]

Methinks holy magic on pretender is a stupidity. That will automaticaly cause the prophet to be 'more holy' http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif than god itself. God is a GOD, not a priest, especially a weak priest.
The only way I see a holy magic on pretenders is an extra lvl of holy magic(holy5), restricted to gods only...

P.S. Raised a 'Craft Ship' price to 50 to. Removed holy magic from book's stats. Sorry http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Amos]

Version 0.09

Gave all crafted units coldpower. There is a bug. The coldpower command doesnt work but gives the unit chill instead.

[Amos]

- Venus Flytrap is now a summon. Costs 1 nature gem? This unit really isn't that useful, and is pretty well useless if you have to recruit them (because once you're sieged, you can't!).




- Lowered price for "Craft Defense Form" spell to 1;
- Lowered price for "Craft Turret" spell to 3.

[Velusion]

One Suggestion:

I'd give the most expense guys (410) a bit more access to Astral Magic. For a nation that has a 5S nation spell it sure has a hard time casting it.

I think this would also help DrP's observation and make them more attractive to recruit (I found I didn't really need them).

Great looking art and theme though. Seems pretty well balanced compared to vanilla.

[Amos]

Tnx. The "Wormhole" is a cheaper alternative to "Astral Travel" thats in the same school as the Ships. The spell is not meant for the Teachers and is made 5S on purpose. If I give the Teachers more astral they will cost even more. I'll test the issue and see what I can do.

[Amos]

There are many reasons to recruit Teachers:

- they are the only national priests;
- they lower unrest and got patrol bonus;
- they are heavily armored for casters which makes them good battlemages;
- they provide astral magic at the beginning of the game;
- they can summon ships without going to Construction school first.

[Amos]

Version 0.10

Commander prices lowered.

[Amos]

Fixed a mistake. The "Terraforming Tower" should have had command over magical units. Now it does.

[Amos]

- Turret's cost raised to 5 gems (it was too good for 3);
- All immobile units had their defense reduced to 0.

[Amos]

Version 0.11

Changed unit numbers to 2550-2580.

[Amos]

Version 0.12

- "Frigate", "Builder", "Crafted Ship" and "Ancient Ship" got #stormimmune;
- "Terraforming Tower" has cold 10.

[Aezeal]

Amos, isn't parry 14 very high?
I'm not really into the shield balancing but rdonj was complaining of to effective shield when I gave a shield parry value 4.. and yours are 14..
not to mention they end up with a defence value of 24.

I wonder why the warden is so much more expensive he has a blade that deals less damage for 1 defence more (seems like a elite troops could have a better weapon) and his stats are all the same except his patrol 2 bonus.. and that makes him cost 5 extra?? (I hardly patrol myself and would rather have extra soldiers for that cash if that is the only benefit)

Is it intended that the turrent has 4 cannons with 4 shots per turn each (12 dmg AP)

your commanders seems a bit cheapish in gc (20 for a 40 leader, 30 for a 80 leader and 60 for a 160 leader, I know you don't balance to vanilla but this is a bit strange to me) The mages seem cheapish too I must say :D high magic very low priced, even with a forge bonus on one of them.
Not much magic variation but then again water magic is pretty allround, decent combat magic, some decent summons.



On your advice I'm thinking about getting them in dominions 3000 but they need more restructuring than insects I think. The lack of ranged weapons is somewhat annoying, I do like the turret idea but I have to test them yet... probably means I'll have to put them in Ulm too since they'd craft anything out of blacksteel that others can make.

I can see a race that is so into watermagic and astral to animate it and lead it into space, and can make everything out of it would not go to much into other tech while still being a spacefaring race.. incorporating some other races in their neighbourhood before coming into contact.

I'd probably need to make spaceships (frigates) a bit more accesable (recruitable) and get another ship between the frigates and your crafted ships (which are quite powerfull with their magic and wormhole casting so should remain summons)
The builders and the towers would need something extra too I think (starting to make towers a lil less vulnerable, by giving them a shield) seems a bit expensive for what they do... they can't really lower cold in provinces can they?

[rdonj]

Parry 4 is a very average level of parry, but if I remember correctly KO once said that a parry value of 8 always catches missiles.

The parry is such a big deal in your mod because most of the things with the 4 parry shields have very high armor, and when you combine it with the armor from the shield it makes them almost completely immune to 90% of the ranged attacks in the game. For example, ulmish black knights have 39 prot when their shield blocks a hit. The defense value is also definitely an issue, but most of your things with the better shields have fairly low starting defense so it's not a big deal generally.

[Amos]

I'll start from the bottom.

seems a bit expensive for what they do... they can't really lower cold in provinces can they?

The towers act as factories for frigates and stationary prophets. They should be able to spread the dominion and the cold with it.

your commanders seems a bit cheapish in gc (20 for a 40 leader, 30 for a 80 leader and 60 for a 160 leader, I know you don't balance to vanilla but this is a bit strange to me) The mages seem cheapish too I must say high magic very low priced, even with a forge bonus on one of them.

The commanders are pretty balanced in my opinion. Their stats are low except for leadership. Try a game with them and you will see.

Is it intended that the turret has 4 cannons with 4 shots per turn each (12 dmg AP)


Yes it is intentional. It was an experiment and I liked it so much that I decided to leave it in the game. The regular soldiers dont have any ranged weapons. The only ranged weapons they get in the early game are stationary. I thought it was cool.

I wonder why the warden is so much more expensive he has a blade that deals less damage for 1 defense more (seems like a elite troops could have a better weapon) and his stats are all the same except his patrol 2 bonus.. and that makes him cost 5 extra?? (I hardly patrol myself and would rather have extra soldiers for that cash if that is the only benefit)


Warden has higher moral, basic attack and defense besides the patrol bonus. So, I thought he should have an appropriate price. They are situational soldiers so you might not even use them in your game. In large numbers they should be good at warding off the assassins in your mage heavy provinces.

Amos, isn't parry 14 very high?
I'm not really into the shield balancing but rdonj was complaining of to effective shield when I gave a shield parry value 4.. and yours are 14..
not to mention they end up with a defense value of 24.


Since the Commonwealth soldiers dont have ranged weapons I thought it would be appropriate that they would have a very good defense against them. Troops with energy shields have very low level of armor so it balances out.

but if I remember correctly KO once said that a parry value of 8 always catches missiles.

They still get slaughtered sometimes(very rare occurrence) by effective ranged troops even with their high shields, so "always" is incorrect.

[Aezeal]

Hmm my bad about the wardens I thought I had specifically looked those value's up in game..

The turrent is nice indeed and stationary but it provides heavy defense.

Is there a reason there are no Simian leader btw?

[Aezeal]

The ships have lightning attacks.. doesn't really fit with water or astral.. I think I'll put some air in the nation too (1-2 air max) to cover the lightning and a bit more magic diversity

I think S 5 is a bit strongish on those ships I like the idea of a supermobile race though so maybe I'll lower their S 1-2 and the requirement for the spell too.

I really like the sprites I must say so while I might want to change 1-2 things I definately want to implement it with aformentioned changes if you have no objections.

Do you happen to have sprites of regular units with those wings too? ( I see they have a lil strange legs/feet so can't pass for regular troops) Then I could use those as the spaceforms..

[Amos]

I have no objection to changes. If you have a different vision for the nation than me feel free to implement it.
Sprites can be drawn. But if you want all the regular types with wings that will take a lot of time I dont have. Sorry... I'll try to draw some for you if I get the time. But no promises.

Is there a reason there are no Simian leader btw?

Simians are not smart enough to rise to leadership positions in the Commonwealth.

[Amos]

This destroyer could be a possible space-form.

[Aezeal]

I can certainly use it, probably not as spaceform since I didn't give other races auto spaceships as space form (and the reason for that was that I also had recruitable space ships so where do they others suddenly come from) so I usually make sort of spacesuits.. they flying wings could be some sort of spacesuit (and more original than others).

I think I'll forget the Simians and give the wing to the regular pplz as spaceform (copy paste over the simians) and then use that destroyer as another option for a spaceship. And ofcourse introduce hand icecannons :D

Would there be a way to make the dominion more reliant on those spires you can erect? I'm not so into these nation commands but would making it a no preachnation etc etc help with making it reliant on those spires? or wouldn't that work either then? would give it a nice twist. I'd have to make them easier to get by but that wouldn't be a problem

[Amos]

You could raise the prophet value (#spreaddom command). I think I'll do it myself in the next version. I like the destroyer so its going into the next version as well.

[Amos]

Version 0.13

- Raised prophet value on the "Terraforming Tower";
- Added "Destroyer" as a summoning spell.

[Aezeal]

but are there ways to eliminate other methods of getting dominion?

except prophet and pretender I mean

[Amos]

but are there ways to eliminate other methods of getting dominion?

except prophet and pretender I mean


It would be inconsistent with the theme of the mod. The Commonwealth spreads the law. It has to have the preaching.

[Aezeal]

ah true, but could you eliminate spontaneous dom spread..

only leave preaching and those spires then?

[Amos]

but could you eliminate spontaneous dom spread..


You get dominion spread from preaching, blood sacrificing, prophet(or creatures with prophet bonus) and pretender. Did I forget something? Which do you want to eliminate?

[Aezeal]

Ehm I don't really know.. the spontaneous thing that happens.. every turn? which is composed of (I think somethign with temples, your dominions score on the pretender and the presence of prophet and pretender.)

So you'd need to preach or build spires or else you'd be like Mictlan not blood sacrificing?

Do you understand what I mean, would seem thematic to me since the law is just a bit less appealing than believing in a all powerfull god... you'd really need to talk (preach) about the law or else they won't believe.

[rdonj]

#dyingdom
Dominion is dying and needs blood sacrifice.
Temples have no effect here, except if blood
sacrifices are performed there or if a priest
preaches there.

[Aezeal]

yeah but that isn't all that either since those ships and spires aren't there that soon.
I wonder if the spires would work in the first place.. if the spires would work there wouldn't be a real problem (I could construct a "main spire" there so they wouldn't get domkilled early)

Hey.. mictlan can preach too? I thought mictlan preaching didn't work... that is sweet.. cus Amos is right that preaching should work.

I might just try it to see if the spires work --> done, and the starting scout is removed for a main spire with better effect.

I've changed quite a bit in this nation for my mod, I'm not gonna post it here anymore I think since it really doesn't have anything to do with this mod and is only distracting :D

[Amos]

Added a new hero "Lord Protector of the Law".

[Sombre]

Hey.. mictlan can preach too? I thought mictlan preaching didn't work... that is sweet.. cus Amos is right that preaching should work.

EA and LA Mictlan have the no preaching tag set.