Mod: Even Weirder Worlds *** Now 1.02

[Phlagm]

EWW 1.02 - Removed the underdelve alternate quest.
Added a new mainquest with appropriate goodies (weapons and ships).
Added proper spirifer silhouette
Added proper zorg battlestation silhouette, and finalized it.

EWW 1.01 - Took Corrupted quest out temporarily
Juggled races in game.ini to try to get more of them to appear
Added 1 race to each of the maps in distribution.ini as well as a couple of stars.
Moved the zorg.tga image over a bit in the intro screen

EDIT: EWW 1.00
Fixed typo in pirate quest
Added the Sphyrna race
Added two new ally ships
Changed intro art
Added a skeleton version of pulse wave weapon
Added the Incredible Combobulator...too bad I can't get it to work
Reorganized races to make Cambrians start appearing again


EWW 0.99
Added some new Zorg Hireables, which one you get depends on which ship you choose at the beginning..
Added a new Terran "Hireable" which is again somewhat dependent on which ship you choose at the beginning.
Added a new Pirate "quest".
Added a new weapon for the pirate race, and tweaked their existing weapons to make them somewhat more threatening.
You can see a future Zorg Battlestation in the simulator:

Coming soon: Another mainquest, finalizing the Battlestation and cambrian tritarthus, a spiffy new device (if I can get it working) the race from my avatar (the art's already done), and another race.

EDIT: This is 0.90 - Thanks to Fingers for making the nocollision and shootable flags complimentary http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

EWW 0.90 - Fixed a couple of text overflows.
Added the Cambrian Spirifer to the fleets.
Added 2 weapons:
Tactical Attack Drones
Duranium Burst Gun
Finalized the Blastoid Launcher
Added the Blastoid Launcher to the Cambrian Eurypterid
Outfitted the Pirates with the Flak Cannon and Duranium Burst Guns
Fixed art on Popplers

[BigSpaceKablooie]

I just registered to say: thank you for version 0.85! It's given me a couple of hours of great fun already.

Gosh, isn't Esmerelda annoying though? ... Just makes it more satisfying when you catch her!

Keep up the great work, and looking forward to 0.90!

[Ace_Garp]

Cool!
I've amended the Mod List thread to point to this latest version.
Would this work with the Mac (pre-ravian release), or does it use anything from the last windows update?
I'll go ahead and try it anyway. Any probs and I'll report back ;-)

[blargue]

Hey Phlagh, great work on the mod. Loads of fun! One quick fix you may want to implement - the Zorg cargo freighter has too many cargo points. The game doesn't seem to be able to handle 6 rows of cargo space - I think there is a hardcap at 5 rows, so as soon as you manage to place anything in the 6th row the game crashes. Reducing the space to 5 rows should fix it.

[Phlagm]

Oh good catch! Thanks. Wow, how the hell did you manage to get that many items? I don't know that I ever have been able to. I guess that's proof that not only will it crash the game, but that extra row probably isn't needed anyway.

Once I'm done with finals, I'm planning to produce another patch (maybe 1.0). I just finished whipping up a Garthan Frigate in my very little spare time, and can't wait to stick it in.

[mantari]

I just wanted to say that I enjoyed your mod very much, and it breathed a great deal of fun and enjoyment back into the game. Thanks!

[Phlagm]

Thank you. I have a ton of stuff to do in that mod. If the mac patch comes out before the summer ends, I'll have time to do it. Until then, another mod will be debuting soon.

[Mafaa]

How soon is soon?

[ImUrOBGYN]

Whew, it's been awhile. Nice job so far Phlagm. Just tried it out today. Noticed a couple little things so far. The only one I can remember offhand though, has to do with text descriptions. More specifically, you're only allowed so many characters (I don't remember how many) in item, etc text descriptions so yours are being cutoff. Dunno if that was mentioned already or not. Still catching up on stuff. Can't wait to see what else you have in store. I think I like playing mods better than making them. Bit more of a suprise, ya know.

[Doncommie]

This is really well made and the new content is very impressive, I can't really go back to plain now as it almost feels like playing with an expansion pack.

My only gripe is that the smaller Cambrian fighter style ships are really annoying as they constantly try to ram me, it makes combat with them very difficult.

[Phlagm]

Hehe... Yeah, I know those guys are annoying. Whenever the mac patch comes out, I'll get a chance to tweak them a little more. It's rough because everyone plows into you right away. I need some more cambrians to offset that, but I do like the idea of the little fighter guys ramming you, and having an inordinate amount of ramming ships in general. It kind of gives some more dimension to the fighting. But I admit that they probably need serious balancing.

I hope to add several more races when the mac patch comes out. Also, I will try to add more items and weapons. And quests, but those are TOUGH. I kind of feel that the quest system is seemingly robust, and close to actually being robust, but whenever I try to do something a little out of the bounds of what is already present in the game, I hit a snag. For mods that completely rework the game, it's not a problem because you can remake standard quests and make them look completely different. It's exceptionally tough to keep all the old quests and put new things in that aren't simply redundant.

[sgqwonkian]

Love what I've seen of the mod so far. Your ship and item artwork is really top-notch, it makes me envious.
Really enjoyed the "eel-drive" - despite being "just another drive" the added flavor made it really incredibly cool.
I love the concept of the various stellar fragment guns and look forward to blindly picking up the other varieties in the future.

But I do have a bug to report: Every game I've played so far has crashed to the desktop in between high-score list and credits.

Admittedly, I'm playing on the beta version of the mac patch, so it may not be your mod that's causing the crashing - it may be an unidentified bug in the patch. But it's probably worth your looking at the files relating to credits and mission debriefing to make sure there's nothing glitchy there.

[Phlagm]

Thanks! Now that I'm suddenly able to work on this mod again, I'm hoping to add a handful of things to it really fast, and then release a small update in the next couple of days.

[sgqwonkian]

Played some more of your Mod last night. The teleporting zorg missiles are sheer genius.

Found a typo in your Digital Eel item - I presume it's supposed to say "This sparkling..." not "his sparkling..." http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Phlagm]

The teleporting missile was a carry over from my Strange Adventures mod ESAIS where I made one special weapon for each race. I think it could use some tweaking still, but that's okay. of all the things I've added, the hydra missile is still my personal favorite.

Thanks, I've corrected the typo, added another Garthan ship, and fixed a bug that was found long ago with the Zorg Freighter. I want to do something new before i put out another patch, but I guess we'll just have to see what I have time to get done.

[sgqwonkian]

There was also some block of text that ran off the page, and couldn't be read. Can't remember which item it was off the top of my head. If I stumble across it again I'll post here.

Just downloaded 0.86, thanks for the update!

[Phlagm]

Cool. Yeah, I have a tendency to get a bit verbose. I used to have a TON that overran, but I caught and corrected most of them. Any spots are great, though

[sgqwonkian]

I do it too. Nearly every text block in my mods so far has had to be trimmed back once I actually saw them on screen. Mod with passion, edit in cold blood...

[lexicat]

hey there!

fantastic mod! i noticed a text overrun or two also, will keep my notepad handy.

Gotta hand it to you: happiness is [/i]not[/i] a warm particle vortex cannon, but rather a warm Hydra Missile Battery (or, two if i've found the timeless bauble, plus a cloaking device, if i'm lucky).

What fun!


lexicat

[Phlagm]

Thanks! I can use all the help I can get. I always liked that the Hydra was just mediocre unless the enemy has point defense. Then the missile is wildly counterintuitive...for them.

[Lord_Vader]

Does EWW require the WW patches or something? It always crashes to desktop when I hit the "Start" button when I select this mod.

[Phlagm]

Yeah, you need the latest patch.

[chabex]

Umm.. As I played the mod I have found the Data storage stuff and when I found the Data Encrypring stuff and dropped on the cargo the game crashed... Is it just me or has someone else experienced this?

[sgqwonkian]

I got the new-new patch (so my mac is working again) and christened it by playing your mod 3 games in a row.

Love your mod. One game I had a four ship flotilla armed exclusively with weapons you'd added, and no doubling-up!

Told you I'd let you know if I found another block of text that ran out the window... Check out the Transwarp Organ. It exceeds the allotted space. Last line of text is "interstellar hydrogen to".

Also, since I'm reporting a "bug", there's an item called Blastoid Launcher that has the same picture and description as the Fission Torpedo. Haven't used it in combat so I don't know if it has unique functionality, (it was on a homeworld and I had nothing worth trading down for it). Thought I'd mention it in case this wasn't intentional that the text and picture weren't changed.

Over all, love the mod. Please keep up the great work!

[Phlagm]

Yeah, I had actually just found the transwarp organ and fixed it, but thanks. I'm sure there are more to find. The Blastoid launcher is a troublesome beast of a missile for the cambrians. I thought I took it out until I could get it done, but apparently not. Thanks for that catch. I'll go fix it here in a bit.

[sgqwonkian]

Finally found the minefield deployment drone. That thing is beautiful. It was positively decisive in one battle, so I assumed it would be just as good in the next. Except the Pirates just shot their way through in good 'ol classic BSG fashion, and even my adding a flak cannon to the mix wasn't enough to deter them!

I am envious of your ability to code weaponry.

Anyhow, the real reason I was posting wasn't _just_ to pat you on the back. (But I'll do so again - great mod!) I found another text over-run. On the minefield none the less. Last line is "extensive use in the first" and never supplies the expected noun(s).

[Mafaa]

Hey, got a glitch, the transwarp organ has the text cut off.

[koppit]

"extensive use in the first" ... -> insert war here
lol

I'm also envious of the weapon coding, it's absolutely awesome http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Phlagm]

It be updated http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Phlagm]

Oh and the weapon coding is only a matter of getting an idea, and then meticulously running the thing over and over until you can get it as close to your idea as possible...and using what's already there as an example.

I can tell you one thing: If you want any snazzy pattern to spawn from a missile, you almost always have to spawn a stationary object that is invisible and let that launch the next stage. Once I figured that out, my life got easier.

One thing that helps me come up with ideas is to try to break established patterns and behaviors for things. Example: the hydra missile is a missile that works better against races with point defense. Also (although this came out of SAIS) it happens that the Zorg Missile is useful because it will hit from behind and bypass most point defense. Finally, the blastoid will get hit by point defense, but will detonate when it does, so it may inadvertently take out a fleet of fighters.

I haven't spent much time with the beam weapons, but I will shortly. (I'm also going to have to go through and make a few more items of each type so you aren't just finding weapons everywhere).

Oh and I just learned something about my mod, and I'll share it. If you have Ripcord with twin mass drivers and the plasmoid shield, he's ruthless.

-Jeremy

[Lord_Vader]

Alright, I got the patch... FANTASTIC mod! One of the best ones around. I've already played it three times in just a few minutes.

But, yep, your ability to code weaponry is outstanding. Since Fingers has quite a lot to do, maybe you could make a post here a bit like one of the documents in the Modmaker's Guide to the Galaxy, on weapons. This would really help me make my mod.

The Corrupted Tan Ru is a really good idea, and I love it how they break up into other ships when destroyed. I think I'll do the same thing for my new insane aliens.

I can't wait for the full version with the Dalomar, Silikites, Wraiths etc.

[Phlagm]

Thank you very much. I'm going to keep adding content. I've got a few more weapons slated for it, and eventually I will add back in all of the races you mentioned (from SAIS) another race, and a bunch of other goodies. I am working on qualifiers this semester (for my degree) but I always need a reason to slack off, so I might start something.

[ragnarok_mr4]

Phlagm,

First, I must congratulate you on an excellent mod. That's top-notch code and artwork you have there! I especially like your weapon/particle effects.

I've been agonizing over a way to deploy a proper minefield, as the Gamilons in the StarBlazers universe are supposed to make extensive use of mines. Then I come across exactly what I wanted to make - in your mod.

Would you mind if I take a leaf from your work and use it as a springboard for my own mod?

Cheers!

[Alphasite]

I'm really enjoying this mod. I've noticed a couple of issues in the latest version:

1) The description for the tactical attack drones is incorrect.
2) The description for the telepathic ooze runs over.

[WeirdGuyinanevenweirderworld]

I have the mac version and yet to have luck with this mod. I've downloaded every version and it just crashes the program. Why? Is this just a mod for pc?

I just read through this thread and found that I needed the patch. Working through it now.

I can't wait to play.

[dod488]

I'm using the Mac version and am loving this mod. No real problems.

[Alphasite]

I just had a weird games with Even Weirder Worlds 0.90. I was playing a medium length game with the frigate and the Klakar ship didn't appear. I did find the Klakar homeworld early in the game.

I went through all the solar systems three times to be sure (and was several years overdue).

[Phlagm]

Hmmm. Bizarre. I've got them set for always. I'll look into it, but it's never happened to me. Thanks.

[charmanta]

just want to thank you for this great mod http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Great and funny ... and mostly difficult, too

[Alphasite]

I had a really funny thing happen with this mod yesterday. I hired the Bloodfang, and every time I went into combat the Bloodfang was pointed backwards and had to turn 180 degrees.

I don't know if this was something with the mod, but I never saw it playing without the mod.

Actually, there are times when I'd like to have ships pointing in different directions when entering combat. Especially when I'm going to fight the Urluquai.

[Alphasite]

Just last night I ran into the same thing with the Zorg freighter.

[Phlagm]

First of all, thanks charmanta http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif And second of all. wow, alphasite, I haven't ever had that happen to me. Has anyone else?

That's just bizarre. I'll keep my eyes peeled for it. Is anyone else having this happen?

i I figure out that something in my mod is doing it, I'm totally going to try to put that in an item

[Lord_Vader]

I've been playing your mod solid for days and not found anything like that. I actually HOPE I find it like that, as it would be useful in fighting the Urluquai.

[lexicat]

Yep, I have had it with various escorts.

[Phlagm]

Bizarre. DO they spin around at the start or do they just stay facing the wrong way? I will occasionally get ships that are a little askew and reorient themselves at the start of the fight, but I think I got that in the original game too.

[Alphasite]

They spin 180 degrees at the start. If you can figure out a way to specify ships in the fleet to enter facing backwards and stay that way it would be very useful (as would a rear-facing weapon on the corvette and frigate, but that's another topic).

[chabex]

I have experienced the same- at every WW mod and in the original. If you give the flagship the turn (T) command the other ships in your flottila start to spin around. I guess this is a glitch in the original game...

[lexicat]

They re-orient themselves. And it doesn't just happen if the flotilla arrangement is a little cramped, either.

[Fingers]

If this occurs when you tell your flagship to turn in place, then it's normal behavior. The escort ships try to maintain their assigned spots in relation to the flagship, so if you turn right (without moving forward) any escort ships on the right side will have to turn around to go to their new spots (since the ships can only move forward). If the flagship is moving forward as it turns, the escort AI is able to drift backward in formation just by slowing down.

[Alphasite]

I've seen the ships adjusting themselves, but this is different. Rather than:

vvvv

I sometimes (very rarely) get:

vvv^

And the "^" will immediately spin 180 degrees so it's pointing the other way without me doing anything.

[Phlagm]

There will be a new patch out...hopefully tonight. It'll have some new stuff as well as bug fixes. Some of the new stuff will be the beginnings of ship-specific missions, just in case you were wondering "Why would I play a pirate vessel, when I can get 3 guns?" Now you'll know. And there are a few other bonuses.

[WeirdGuyinanevenweirderworld]

Phlagm,

Just a quick note. I thought I already posted about it. But when I have the special event with the Damocles Sword when I've beaten the bad guy they game quits. Do you know why? it hasn't happened in any other of the mods I've played.

I love this Mod. I can't stop playing it.
Thanks

[Phlagm]

Hmm really? I don't think it has ever happened with me. But I'll check that right now.

And thanks! I'll have more in the next patch. Which is done whenever I can get one quest working.

[Phlagm]

I'm replying to this just to move it up to the top of the thread http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Alphasite]

I haven't yet seen a Cambrian fleet with 0.99.

[Phlagm]

Funny that you mention it, but I was noticing another issue, but that's certainly true. I haven't seen them either, and I didn't change them at all. I have been noticing quirks in the randomization of events....Where I make two things mutually exclusive, and only one ever shows up.

I just moved the Cambrians to near the top of the list and suddenly they appear. This is an alarming realization, though. I have another 2 races that I'm putting in the next patch, and had intended to add three more in the future. I guess there's no point if they won't appear in the game.

[Phlagm]

Okay, I moved some things around to get the Cambrians to start showing back up. Who knows what other race got shafted now.

[Alphasite]

I'll play with it for a couple of days and see if I notice anything.

[Phlagm]

You know, despite that I set my tanru mainquest as the only mainquest and put the frequency to 1 and played 900 games in a row to get it just right, I ran into that quest in the game again and it was bugged severely. I guess I'll be trying to patch that once again.

[sgqwonkian]

To quote the Modmaker's Guide:
"GD_MAX_RACE 32 - maximum number of races"

So it would seem there should be room. We know that certain quests have to occur in a particular order, such as the mainquests being up top, then gamequests, then always, and lastly the random event quests. Do races have a similar protocol?
How does the game tell where those lists start and end? Could that be the issue? Is it "always end with Urluquai", or is it "stop looking once a single race says random"? I'm always so curious how the inner-workings of the game function.

[Phlagm]

I think that the number just tells you where it's going to start crashing. I can get other completely inexplicable behaviors to show up as well. For example: On this lastest patch (before I put it out) the Sphyrna showed up all the damned time even though they only had two ships. Then I juggled some people around and now they never ever ever show up in the intro fight. However, the corrupted tan ru are lower on the totem pole, but they show up constantly. I can't figure it out. I mean it must be some kind of hitch in the random number generation or something.

[cnorsl]

I started a small map with the frigate, and found that the Muktian homeworld was at Glory. They immediately engaged me in combat even though I clicked Leave (I guess because I didn't have anywhere to leave to yet) but I was able to flee to a nearby star. Later I found the Mantle of Babulon so I was able to finish the mission without killing them.

I wouldn't mind if that issue is never fixed, really. It makes for an interesting game as long as it only happens on occasion.

[Phlagm]

Haha, you're kidding!
Dammit, I KNOW I didn't do anything like that.

[Alphasite]

I ran into a Cambrian fleet on the second game.

I also ran into the Sphyrna on the third game.

[Alphasite]

I forgot to mention I also found the Combobulator.

[cnorsl]

It happened again! This time it was a medium map, with the Zorg homeworld at Glory.

I managed to find an Aethric Mirror to get them out of the way, and then hired the Kuti to make them like me.

Maybe this has to do with how you rearranged the order of the races?

I haven't run into Tchorak or the Corrupted Tan Ru yet in this version.

[Phlagm]

The corrupted tan ru only show up in a mainquest, although if I can't get that working to suit me, maybe I'll change that. And yeah, the Tchorak don't tend to show up like this either. The problem I keep getting now is that some race homeworld will appear on the map, but no fleet. I know this happens if you manually place a homeworld and then that race doesn't happen to randomly be in that game. I can't imagine that a quest is doing all of this, but maybe it is.

I'm going to tweak a couple of things and then repost the patch

[Phlagm]

How'd you like the combobulator? I was so sad when the THIF flag didn't work. My original intention was to make 4 or 5 of them, only one would load per game.

The function was to have been this: YOu click it, it steals a tech item, and gives you another. it then removes itself and gives you the next version. That one removes tech and gives a living thing...and replaces itself, then one gives you a unique item, and replaces self, then I was going to work in some other tech things, and finally end the chain with something extremely undesirable.

[cnorsl]

The THIF flag sounds like it's for the Esmerelda event, right? In that case, wouldn't the old version of the combobulator show up for trade at an alien homeworld?

I think it might work if you use the REMV flag like the Golden Cannister does. I'll try to try this out.

[Phlagm]

The problem is that with the REMV flag, you have to specify an item name, like dv_canister. So you can't do what I want it to do and randomly "recombobulate" items in your cargo.

In an ideal world, I'd be able to THIF with a device and also be able to specify my own item FLAGs. In addition to tech, loot, life, etc., I could put in combobulator, and then ITMS 1 combobulator, so it'd be completely random as to which one you'll get after you use it. On top of that, if I could have a way for it to set off the bomb without prompting for a time (this may be possible, I don't remember) or to put on a NOVA at the current star upon item use, then I can make the one bad combobulator REALLY bad. There would probably also be a nonfunctional one, so you couldn't just do it forever.

These flags would also help me with a mainquest I'd like in the game, but I'll share that another time.

[cnorsl]

Ah, I missed the part about about stealing an item. I thought you wanted to use THIF on the combobulator itself.

Would it be possible to make a one time use version of it via a special quest like you did for the cambrian egg?

edit: Actually, more like the underdelve exploration. eg, you arrive at the planet and it says "You found the combobulator! Turn it on? Y/N" If yes, it does its thing. If no, say that your crew dropped it on the way back to the ship, and you get a nonfunctional combobulator.

You could have several of those quests with the differing effects, but which look identical to the player.

[Alphasite]

Phlagm said:
How'd you like the combobulator? I was so sad when the THIF flag didn't work. My original intention was to make 4 or 5 of them, only one would load per game.



Well, since it didn't work I was a bit disappointed, but it was funny.

[Alphasite]

I noticed in 1.01 you removed the Corrupted Tan Ru. I ran into them a couple of times. Each time I caught up with the first fleet at the Tan Ru homeworld and there were so many normal Tan Ru I didn't even have to fight them.

The second time I found the Core soon after they showed up, but the second time I didn't find them until quite a bit of time after they made it to Glory. Was a warning that they reached Glory supposed to be sent, and was there supposed to be a time limit before they converted Glory?

[ExplorerBob]

In 1.00, I was using a pirate corvette, the Photosynthesis, and had two weapons -- I believe, the hydra missile launcher and the euachilid spike (the Cambrian rear-firing weapon).

When we decided to attack some Muktian fighters, those weapons didn't fire at all. What gives?

Also:
What with the Corrupted Tan Ru, the Yellow Kawangi ship doesn't seem all that intimidating in actual combat, but it can fly around blowing up stars on the main map. I think it'd be cool if it (and possibly the Prometheus station) were boosted, so as to make for more interesting battles, and to preserve their status as the ultimate threats in-game.

[Phlagm]

I'm going to start working that quest from scratch for the third time. What should happen is this: It starts at the beginning, and the Corrupted move through converting planets to machine worlds. Then the Tan Ru send a shout out.

Here's where I face my first problem with that quest:
1) If I put the tan ru homeworld in the game, and they don't load as a possible race, then the homeworld will be completely without tan ru. If I do put a fleet there, then it's possible that the game will load them and put two at their homeworld, in which case, they'll have 3. Otherwise they'll have one.

2) I considered making this quest behave differently and only start when you encountered Tan Ru, but then I ran into issues with ability to make races neutral (or leave them neutral in this one instance and make them aggressive whenever this mainquest didn't load). Then it would be like an ultra-rare mainquest since you'd only get it when you both got a mainquest AND got tanru to load.

3) Unfortunately I ran into some issues with the quest that were completely illogical. I made sure I had all parameters initialized, but still it was giving me fits. I posted about how I changed one number and it made something completely unrelated work, but whenever I put that back, it would fail.

I'll go back and work on this some more. I've been fighting it for a while. Unfortunately, in trying to bend the rules a bit to keep the quests from all being identical, I seem to be finding ones that break.

[Phlagm]

RE ExplorerBob: Hmm... I should make the hydra missile fire at small ships maybe. But lots of the larger slow weapons don't target fighters. So if you arm yourself with large-damage long-range missiles, you get shredded by little fighters.

I think the Kawangi may still be okay. It does, however, take two of them to break even in combat with the Megacluster. I should upgrade the station, though. You're right. And now that you mentioned that, I have an idea.

[Caylin]

Hi, I just downloaded this mod and its great, I think I may switch to it entirely over vanilla. My favorite thing about it is the amount of higher end equipment. The thing that bothered me about the vanilla game was it was really hard for me to make any other ship in my flotilla have any survivability because decent equipment was so hard to come by.

Also: I noticed a text overrun in the little popcorn looking thing, it was some sort of sludge beast I think. I don't remember the exact name, but in the text it said it was hard to capture but didn't' say what it did to you if you installed it.

[Caylin]

Also: I don't seem to see the stellar cannon firing, does it have extreme close range?

[ExplorerBob]

Yeah, it is.

I get varying mileage with the stellar cannon; one time I used it and a nova cannon on my cloaking pirate corvette, and it worked beautifully for close-range combat. I prefer a PVC over both, though, when I can get one. The nova cannon does sweet damage, but it has a horrible range.

I rarely ever play vanilla WW nowadays; usually I load up Even Weirder Worlds, or Drives 'R Us when I'm in the mood for neptunium tridents.

One feature Drives had that I liked was the planet not having just alternate weapons; you could buy all kinds of higher-grade equipment there.

I'm always paranoid about Esmeralda stealing or destroying my high-end stuff, and wish there was a way to kill her or otherwise evade her with skill; perhaps even have the ability to chase her down and get back all the stuff she stole.

Anyhow, I'm rambling, so I'll submit this post right about now.

[Caylin]

The first game I played of this mod went down hill fast when I was tooling around with my flux shield, and esmerelda stole it. I was so pissed.

I prefer the PVC AND the nova cannon. I also like the the multi missile launcher, but I try to keep a mass driver or some other PD gun in my last slot. Is there a list of weapons somewhere I can look at even if it is for vanilla so I can see the stats, and most importantly tell what works as PD and what weapons won't target fighters?

[Phlagm]

No such list exists, but I could make one perhaps. I think most of the PD I added are the flak cannon (which is the one thing that will target fighters and missiles and NOT cap ships), the burst gun that the pirates have, the still-needing-to-be-finished future wraith polarized muon streamer, the barely-in-there-desperately-needing-to-be-finished pulse wave weapon, and the drones. I think that's it, but I may have forgotten someone. I'll put together a list when I get a chance.

[Alphasite]

ExplorerBob said:
I'm always paranoid about Esmeralda stealing or destroying my high-end stuff, and wish there was a way to kill her or otherwise evade her with skill; perhaps even have the ability to chase her down and get back all the stuff she stole.




Esmeralda never made sense to me (esp. on the frigate) so I remove the two lines that let her appear.

I haven't missed her at all.

[Alphasite]

Caylin said:
I prefer the PVC AND the nova cannon. I also like the the multi missile launcher, but I try to keep a mass driver or some other PD gun in my last slot. Is there a list of weapons somewhere I can look at even if it is for vanilla so I can see the stats, and most importantly tell what works as PD and what weapons won't target fighters?



I like both the multi-missile launcher and the hydra missile launcher. If I know I'm going to face the pirates or Cambrians I like to load the hydra as it's very effective against them.

[Phlagm]

Alphasite said:
I like both the multi-missile launcher and the hydra missile launcher. If I know I'm going to face the pirates or Cambrians I like to load the hydra as it's very effective against them.



Sometimes that hydra missile is very effective against the processor too.

[Phlagm]

And as for Esmerelda, both the Lookout Frogs and Toy Robot will stop her. I can't say that it's 100%, but very often the things she steals show up on a homeworld somewhere.

[Alphasite]

Phlagm said:
And as for Esmerelda, both the Lookout Frogs and Toy Robot will stop her. I can't say that it's 100%, but very often the things she steals show up on a homeworld somewhere.



Yes, I know they stop her, but 99.9% of the time Esmeralda shows up early and the Frogs and robot don't show up until later, so they aren't much use.

[Phlagm]

All right. Complaint noted. I've taken one small step to help with that.

[Caylin]

Will she ever show up more than once? And can she escape from your hold if you get rid of the frogs after getting her?

[Phlagm]

The answer to both questions is nope.

[sgqwonkian]

I can't find the thread on your race non-randomization issues. Was it just in this thread? If so, you might want to post it as a seperate thread to lure Fingers into answering your questions.

In the meantime, here's my thoughts of a possible (admittedly kludgy) work-around for the non-randomized race issues you've been having:
You could publish alternate versions: 1.1A and 1.1B, for example. Make them identical, except for the order of certain entries in the game.ini file. Always make your changes to the A version, and then every so often generate a new B by taking the latest A and swapping around the order of a couple races.
Kind of annoying, I know, but it's at least a possible temporary solution until Fingers notices these threads and can post an explanation of what's happening and why.

[mantari]

Caylin said:
Hi, I just downloaded this mod and its great, I think I may switch to it entirely over vanilla.



When I'm looking for a generic game of Weird Worlds to play, this mod is always it. I never play Vanilla anymore. This mod is also my #1 choice for a "standard" game. Would love to see this one developed even more!

[Phlagm]

haha. Thanks. Well if I can get the bugs worked out, I'll have a new patch soon. Maybe with two mainquests, but certainly with one. And I should have a few other nice surprises in there as well. Okay, some may not be so nice http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[mantari]

I'm by no means an expert on this game, but I noticed something odd with the .ini files of the things that were having problems.

Specifically, some lines seem to be missing carriage return / linefeeds. You'll see this if you bring it up in Windows notepad.

Example from corruptedX.ini:
CONDITION 1TYPE fleetleavePAR0 -1END CONDITIONCONDITION 2TYPE fleetarrivePAR0 -1END CONDITION

Instead of:
CONDITION 1
TYPE fleetleave
PAR0 -1
END CONDITION

CONDITION 2
TYPE fleetarrive
PAR0 -1
END CONDITION

There is something similar going on in various places of game.ini, like the hulls:
gar_sprcgar_frg
zor_frtzor_sta
cam_clmcam_art
crp_mgcdol_desdol_crvodd_mnssph_crvsph_desone_crv1 one_crv2

I don't know if this is the root cause of any of your problems or not, but I saw the possibility that the game may be reading the line incorrectly like Windows notepad does, when it expects a carriage return/linefeed combo, and does not see it.

Is this of any value?

[Phlagm]

Wow, if this is causing problems then I'm screwed! But I have yet to have a major problem with the game.ini file. I may recruit your help if I have another quest that inexplicably just won't act logically, to look for peculiarities like this.

Thanks!

[Phlagm]

Okay. The only major change in this version is that there's a new mainquest. There are tons of new items and a new alien, but they'll only show up that 6.25% of the time that you happen to get this quest to show up. There is one very minor bug in the quest (a display bug only) that I wrestled with forever, and cannot fix. Two things evaluate at the same time, and regardless of what I do, they will only show up in the wrong order. Aside from that, I think it's a good quest.

I've cooked up another scheme for the Corrupted Tan Ru that will make it somewhat different from previous quests. If it works, it'll come together fast. We shall see.

[Phlagm]

Oh, and my banner still doesn't show up on my computer. If someone would do me the favor of opening it up and saving it and attaching it, I'll see if I can view it on my computer.

[mantari]

I'd be curious to try my hand at your display bug, if you can give me the filename of the quest.

I've attached your banner image, in .png format.

EDIT: Scratch that. I figured out what the quest was. It looks very interesting! Hope the .png format works well for you.

[Phlagm]

The attachment won't work for me because I have to then convert it to a bmp file myself, and then I haven't done anything differently than before.

I'm not sure what the problem is, but I'm saving the banner.bmp as an 8 bit windows bitmap, and no dice. And this is true for anything I touch on this laptop. It's either a palette problem, or something bizarre with an interaction between Leopard and WW. I know photoshop distinguishes between files it made and random others. Perhaps the preview is to blame? I'll go home tonight (if I can remember) and turn on the PC and see if I can make it on that copy of photoshop and have it work.

Oh and the "display" problem I mentioned is a display order problem, not one with things not appearing. The problem is this, and it happens every time: You do something a number of times. When you do it the last time, you get a message saying that you did it again. You also get a message relating to the uniqueness of having done that for the last time. Despite that I put "break"s everywhere imaginable, it does a sort of last-in first-out. So you find out that you're finished, and then you close the window and learn that you did the last thing. It's really a minor problem, but I tried a number of things to work around it and all they did was make the game crash, or make bits stop working.

It's a minor annoyance, at worst. But don't go poking into the files too closely until you've played the new mainquest once or twice. I tried to make it a bit of a mystery to be solved.

[mantari]

OMG! I forced it to play, and I didn't make it through to the end, but I like it! I'm going to try again.

Sorry I misunderstood your .bmp problem. I pulled your image into a program re-saved it in .bmp format again, and attached it here.


So you find out that you're finished, and then you close the window and learn that you did the last thing. It's really a minor problem, but I tried a number of things to work around it and all they did was make the game crash, or make bits stop working.



I have made many modifications, but I'm not getting around your problem so far. You're right. Clearly there isn't any way that EVENT B can be processed before EVENT A. Yet the popups are happening in the order of EVENT B then EVENT A, even though that is completely bogus.

So very odd, but I'm still playing with it. I'm pretty sure this isn't anything your code is doing wrong.

[Phlagm]

Without saying too much, did you find everything without cheating? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif I tried to be not clever, slightly clever, and clever when placing things.

[Phlagm]

Oh and I'm working on another main quest right now, and I also have a partial fix for the vanishing cambrian woes. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Phlagm]

Oh and if anyone wants to ensure that it pops up every time, you can do the following:

Duplicate game.ini. Take the original file, and delete the quest names kawangi, damocles, and brood2 which come right after tutorial. (when you're sick of it, you can delete game.ini and rename your copy to game.ini). YOu'll also need to chance the mainquest frequency number from 4 to 1 in numbers.ini.

[Phlagm]

No dice on the new, new, new attempt at coming up with a unique quest for the corrupted Tan Ru. I was counting on that "misbehavior" of reinitializing a planet mentioned in the Mod Maker's guide, but it either wasn't there, or just didn't work like I was hoping.

But here was the idea: The corrupted tan ru start offmap and attack the tan ru. Then I have a second copy of the tan ru homeworld that hasn't been initialized with a corrupted fleet set to attack the zorg. So when they arrive, they destroy the tan ru fleet and appear to move on to the zorg. In this way I was hoping to apparently give a ship a changing trajectory.

It doesn't work.

[clomaka]

This is a really terrific mod Phlagm! and i love the newest updates, especially the Sphyrna. Looking good and keep up the good work!

[lexicat]

Hi Phlagm!

Great work. Keep it coming. I notice that in the haven.ini file you have a 4th and fifth STAR command. However, the Modmaker's Guide to the Galaxy suggests that there can only be four STAR commands numbered 0-3.

Thoughts?

Lexicat

[Phlagm]

Hey thanks guys, and to lexicat, doh! I was doing some tinkering, and I thought I had cleared that out. It has no effect anyway. I think they updated the limits so that you can have up to 8 stars (0-7) in a quest now.I just look on the page that tells the limits.

I think those didn't evaluate because it just won't do ITEM random tech in a STAR block.

If you can tell me why a quest having only this in it:

FLAG
KEYS

STAR 0
FLAG
FLET cambrian -5
END STAR

won't evaluate, please tell me. I can't figure it out.

-Jeremy

[Singewulf]

Just found a crash bug associated with your new main quest (which I found legitimately, FYI). Part of explaining this gives away a spoiler but I can't explain it otherwise, so spoiler ahead:

__________________________________________________ _________
I had just gotten the third object from the Netherglades. I had a full inventory of objects in my cargo space, so I switched out an object for the new object (Golden Statue I believe.) When I placed the replacement object into the "planet inventory" suddenly a duplicate of the Statue appeared in the planet inventory. Without doing anything else more duplicates of the Stutue popped up under the planet inventory until after about 15 or so duplicates popped, then the game crashed out to Windows.

Just wanted you to be aware if you haven't seen this yet. FYI, I had already received the plea for help from Glory at this point.

[lexicat]

Yo Phlagm!

The ModMaker's Guide is a little outdated, but I wonder if those ITEM commands should be ITMS commands?

Lexicat

[lexicat]

Hey Phlagm,

I have an idea for the recombobulator. It might suffer from memory issues with the game engine, BUT:

instead of trying to remove a random object, remove _all_ objects by name:

REMV it_torc.ini
etc...

then, follow this with some number of new items:
ITMS 2 tech
ITMS 1 loot
etc...

just an idea.

You could probably fiddle with conditionals and a few different versions of the quest page that remove/add different items. For example, one page might remove all weapons, and add a bunch of life forms. You get the drift. . .

Lexicat

[Phlagm]

The problem is that REMV has to have a specific item name. It won't take a random thing. If you do THIF or SABT, the item will pop up elsewhere inexplicably.

What ends up happening, is that none of these things are too terrible in and of themselves, but by the time you get to soemthign that will work, it practically resembles my idea in no way, and no longer seems fun or useful.

I just wanted an item that would remove an item, and give you another, and occaisionally do additional quirky things. i think it could be done extremely simply, but it'd have to be in the coding.

I've actually gotten a little disillusioned because there is this bizarre roof I've hit with the races. Now when I add one, I kill another, and that means that I'm never actually adding any races.

Seen the Cambrians lately?

[lexicat]

right, i noticed the cambrians' absence. i reshuffled the names of all the races in quest.ini to alphabetical order (except for terran which cam first), now cambrians show up, but other races are acting weird (i don't actually encounter urluquai or zorg, and automatically conquer their homeworlds when i stumble across them).

grumble.

[Phlagm]

I haven't done much with it but become exasperated. If i dramatically increase the numbers that should be showing up, nothing happens. I started experimenting with making small quests that have nothing but a planet with an item on it and a cambrian fleet so that you can occasionally see one or two in the game, but those planets end up just having the item and no fleet 90% of the time. Clearly there is some cap there, but it won't respond to anything I do.

I'll post a spoiler here about something I have half-done, but probably won't finish.

I was never able to get a decent mainquest working for the corrupted Tan Ru. Every trick I tried to make it not look like a Ravian, Kawangi, or Primordius clone failed spectacularly. I am somewhat proud of my later Osiris mainquest, which is a blatant kawangi/Ravian clone, but with a catch on the beginning. Killing the thing is just a formality. Plus, I get a kick out of how well the locust swarm worked out.

My other quest was going to be related to the sphyrna. I actually have 2 more ships completed for that race, and something that I thought was pretty nifty. I made each of those ships with great blobs of alien flesh growing on them. The mainquest was to be where you encounter either the lone sphyrna ship that got away from this infestation and then they set about trying to kill you even as they absorb other races. (I was even thinking about making the klakar captain/homeworld become corrupted, the 2nd in command kills him, takes control of the ship and joins you. So you'd be fighting these infested fleets and trying to save the Glory system from this spreading menace.

The cool part was that to destroy one of these ships, you first blow off the goo (which attacks in its own way), which leaves splatters and scorch marks on the ship, and then it tries to kill you with whatever conventional weapons you just freed up.

But I don't want to invest any more time if there's a good chance it's just going to not work. It really sucks too, because I had plans to reintroduce 3 more races from ESAIS also: Wraiths, Silikites, and Dolomar. I mean I could add them all in the combat simulator, but that just makes me want to cry. The worst part is that having to cook up weapons for alien races is my main motivation for putting weird not weapons in the game.

[Alphasite]

I've been looking forward to updates and I can understand your frustration. Have you tried sending email to the developers about these issues?

[chabex]

Phlagm: I know little about programming and etc so sorry if it is dumm what I say, but I have an idea (or question). If you can not throw everything in at the same time in the game is it possible to put them in in packs?
Explanation: If there would be a mod called Even Weirder PARALELL Worlds :-D could you you put All the races, thingies, weapons, quests in the database BUT only use randomly as much as the cap allows? And at some time in the game you would jump into a special Black Hole and whooss! There is a another but paralell universe. For fun and continuation you could keep those races where you have some quests but all the others would be different (again: as much as the cap allows).
So whaddayasay?

[charliecooper]

If the core of this game just changed a little or included a few more options, it could open so many more possibilities.

I will wait.

[lexicat]

Phlagm,

Well you are really inspiring in what you have provided so far. I myself have been frustrated, but have produced nothing nearly as much as you.

Ok, cat out of bag: I have been writing extra Esmerelda quests. I noticed that she was (a) really annoying to encounter, and (b) that it became really important to take her showing up into account. So I made a few quests that really make her dangerous (and have ideas for more). (and I confess that while I hacked WW, I usually just hack EWW… heh).

I've got the basic skeleton of of the quests working, but there's important subtleties that just fail with the quest engine (inconsistencies in break and endquest, in order of evaluation of page blocks, in sequential popups, etc.).

I really hope that you do write Fingers and Ripcord and (respectfully) persuade them that their excellent game could be improved.

Cheerio,
Lexicat

[clomaka]

Keep going w. the awesome content Phlagm! Your stuff was one of the main reason why I decided to buy WW. You could, albeit painfully, rip out some of the standard races to make room for yours; or perhaps make the sequel, where you focus more on the stories of fewer (but more expanded/developed) races.

Either way is not optimal, and so much more could be done if more of the code was accesable. In the meantime, hang in there!

[Phlagm]

I'm not sure how likely it is that there will be another major patch. My problems with the modding are significant enough that I don't think they are readily fixable with a small patch. My primary issue is with the evaluation of conditions. So many just don't evaluate except in one particular circumstance, and that is what makes this game difficult to mod. I find that if you do a total conversion, things work out well because you can reuse the same quests in different clothes, but you often can't easily get conditions to evaluate under circumstances other than how they already show up in the standard game. There are also issues with inconsistency in how rules are applied as well. Finally, there are a things that just aren't exhaustive. For example, you can't take an enemy and make them neutral. You can THIF or SABT a random item, but you just can't remove one.

While the ship and weapons modding present their own difficulties--You would not believe the amount of effort that went into getting the minefield thing up to about 80% of where I really wanted it--they're mostly pretty good and flexible. The quest system is much more complex, and that's the place where you find the most holes. That's also the place where you have the opportunity to truly come up with something unique.

I would be happy to work with other modders here to develop a more comprehensive list of these kinds of stumbling blocks. I can imagine that making a game complex and yet moddable isn't something that can be done flawlessly without some kind of input from the community. You just never know what kind of nutty things people are going to try to bend over backward to do. I am realistic and know that there may be a significant portion that just can't readily be addressed in a financially feasible way. On the other hand, if we could fix a bunch of those things, I think the modding community would explode. If I could figure out why the hell races won't load beyond a number much smaller than what is listed as the max, I would have at least 4 more in the game.

These grumblings aside, it's a spectacular game, and I would love the opportunity to work on some more mods for it.

[clomaka]

I'm up for some collaborating. It's true that there's a ton of oddities, particularly with the quest system, that make things frustrating. It could be really useful for everyone to expand the quest section of the modder's guide with some more explainations as to why some things have to be set up the way they are, maybe a step-by-step how-to for a couple of the complex ones, etc.

I would love to see a more open version of WW (where more of the internals are stored as editable external files), or even a sequal to WW. But while WW is still making money I doubt it'll ever be open source http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[ItayShahar]

I really love this mod :-) Hope for another update in the future.

[Phlagm]

Thanks. I've actually been kicking around the idea for a little while. I probably will make another at some point in the near future.

[chabex]

I already played a lot this mod but until now nothing special quests came up- UNTIL NOW !!! This "Osiris" quest is fun!
Keep it going, I hope there will be updates...

[sgqwonkian]

Hey Phlagm,

I wonder if your problem with the Cambrians has anything to do with the Tan Ru being set to both "random" and "always". Like, maybe they're either taking up two slots out of the number of possible badguys, or confusing the game's randomization function in some non-obvious way. Just a thought...

[Phlagm]

You, my friend, are a genius. I still have my issues with modding this particular game, but I am now suddenly jazzed. The flag thing seems to have fixed it. I'm going to play a little more to make sure, but if it goes well, then I'm going to add a couple of races and a few more ships really fast.

-Phlagm

[sgqwonkian]

I'm going to add a couple of races and a few more ships really fast.

That is great news! I'm really looking forward to your next release.

I nearly didn't post that Tan Ru code error when I noticed it, because I wasn't sure you'd ever see my comment. It had been, what, nearly two years since your last update? If that fixed one of your major troubles, though, then I'm really glad I mentioned it.

I'm very excited to see your next version. I've always really liked your ships, races, weapons, and really all of your work.

[clomaka]

/squeal of delight/ @ Phlagm

[Phlagm]

I'm still getting a little bit of downright bizarre behavior, but I'll live with it. That "always" flag is a dangerous thing.

Anyway, I've spent the weekend adding a couple of spiffy new things, nothing huge and amazing yet, but that's coming. I also think I'll give up on trying fruitlessly to make all the mainquests supremely original, and settle for some very similar ones with certain unique aspects.

-Phlagm

[meKanicalj3sus]

/squeal of delight/ @ Phlagm

yay!

[meKanicalj3sus]

Our friendly neighbourhood UFO

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/picture.php?albumid=23&pictureid=485

taken 26.06.10

[meKanicalj3sus]

Portal?

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/picture.php?albumid=23&pictureid=486

[Zythee]

A well designed and stable mod that adds that little extra jazz to the game :)

Thanks!