Epic Heroes Mod -Version 1.5 Released

[Xietor]

Epic Heroes Mod gives a unique thematic hero at the start of the game to each Middle Age(MA) race. The hero is intended to be Epic. Epic means game changing. Races that otherwise could not take anything but an awake pretender now have options. Races that could care less about a bless-may be tempted to take one.


This mod is compatible with Dominions 3.10 and also with the Worthy Heroes Mod by Turin, and the Reduced Old Age Mod by LLamabeast. I strongly recommend both of these mods.


It can be downloaded at:

http://www.mediafire.com/?5qynuxwshci

[Sombre]

You wouldn't need new sprites if you just set the #startscout to the number of a hero already in the game, or one in the worthy heroes mod.

[Endoperez]

I'd suggest starting an idea pool. If people from the community can suggest their own ideas, they'll want to at least download the mod and see what came of their idea. I'll start:

I'd like to see MA Agartha start with a statue of some kind. Perhaps not a Marble Oracle, as that'd be a bit overpowering, but a statue of an Earth Reader from EA, or perhaps a Troglodyte statue.

[Xietor]

The worthy heroes are great. I love that mod, but i was thinking of a new additional hero to start the game plus the 4 you may or may not get during the game from the worthy heroes.

And I agree with endoperez, ideas of an ideal hero for each of the nations could be gathered to give each a classic(hopefully) hero.

[Gandalf Parker]

There would definetly be an interest. I did the same thing with maps such as "Poke in the Eye"
http://www.dom3minions.com/RandomMaps/Poke_Eye_v3.zip
And its been well received by many. Of course mine is pretty random. You get a different one each time you play on the map. Yours would be much more logical so Im sure it will appeal to many players.
Gandalf Parker

[Xietor]

I think the statute is an awesome idea.

The goal i think when creating an epic hero, is to draw the line a bit short of the hero being able to take provinces solo at the start of the game.

I was thinking of having a black phoenix for Abysia, which would be immortal, undead, 2d 2b 2f 2unholy, fr, and radiate heat.
But the phoenix would only have 9 hps and 3 prot.

So it would be a deadly hero once spells were researched, and would be great at searching for gems early, but would not be able to take provinces early solo.

The theme will be something along these lines:


The Dark Lord captured and tortured a defiant Phoenix in the depths of Hell. As the proud creature died the Dark Lord laughed knowing the creature would serve him after its death. At great personal cost, the Dark Lord reanimated the ashes of the Phoenix and imbued his new general with great power.
But the arisen creature, through a twist of fate or the subtle intervention of an outraged Sun God, retained its former will, and escaped its would be master. Needing protection from the enraged Lord of the Dead, the Black Phoenix cast its lot with Abysia, a kindred race.

[VedalkenBear]

Statue idea is good, but then I think Agartha being able to recruit Telestic Animates would be wicked-cool.

Black Phoenix for Abysia sounds wicked-cool as well. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[jutetrea]

Love the idea, worthy heroes is used consistently in every one of my games. I also used the online randomizer to get a random commander for that same reason (more of an RPG feel), but something thematic and balanced would be cool.

Eventually it would be nice to have a second set of 4 heroes (a la worthy) but you only get 1 random at the start, and they are never able to show up again barring wish.

I'm only familiar enough with a few nations to be of help thematically, but I'll think on it.

[Sombre]

I think I can do the black phoenix graphic. Hook me up with the image you were talking about and give me a couple of details - size etc.

[Xietor]

he will be a size 2 9 hp immortal caster.

[Xietor]

Here is the 2nd one. I could not decide between the two.

[Xietor]

This is a post by Bandar Lover that he posted on the Beowulf thread. I moved it over here.


"Xietor asked me to post this so I guess I will. Here is my background story for an angel hero for Pythium:


While the Pantokrator ruled, contact between mortals and angels was prohibited. However, during Pythium's violent split with Ermor, one angel forsook his place and came to Pythium's aid in their darkest time of need. Despite Pythium's reverence of angels - or because of it - the angel was struck mute by the Pantokrator and his name taken away from him. Even after the Pantokrator's sudden disappearance, Nameless wanders the mortal realm still. Legend holds that he will always come to Pythium's aid, regardless of the cost to himself."

[Endoperez]

EDIT: Attachment doesn't work!

While your pictures aren't something that could be used in the game straigth away, the silhouette-like look gave me an idea. Attached are three different versions of a phoenix. They are named as blackphoenix.tga and blackphoenix2.tga, blackphoenix_aflame.tga and blackphoenix_alfame2.tga, and blackphoenix_flames.tga and blackphoenix_flames2.tga. The first pair is just a recolored version of Harpy Queen hero of Pangaea, in the second and third there are flames made from Djinni (of the lamp) and a Fire Elemental behind the same sprite. All first sprites consist of just a shadow, while all second sprites are colored as if flaming, but in the exact form of the shadow of the first sprite.

While I made these in pairs, they could be used independently of each other, or combined in various different ways. Say, blackphoenix.tga and blackphoenix_aflame.tga, so that the Black Phoenix is always a shadow, but sometimes surrounded by blazing flames seeming to come from the ground.

[llamabeast]

The attachment doesn't seem to work Endo - as in I can't download it at all. Is it just me?

[lch]

Must be something wrong with the forums. Gandalf had the same trouble (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Number=517155#Post517129) in another thread. Maybe their disk is full. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Xietor]

Since there is no viable way to give each hero a unique name,
Heroes will have variable names, and will have to be manually renamed at the start of the game.

[jutetrea]

Jomon - blind swordsman -

T'ien Chi - Fang Gang - One armed swordsman - starting affliction - lost one arm (way to make it perm, a la no chalice?). 4 misc slots, flying, holy 2

Premise: After his servant father is killed protecting their master, Fang Gang is raised by the master as a son and trained in swordsmanship. When the master's daughter chops of his right arm in a thoughtless fit of anger, Fang retreats to recover and learn a new one-armed style of swordplay. He then returns to rescue his master in his greatest hour of need.
http://www.kungfucinema.com/reviews/onearmedswordsman.htm
master = god? daughter = priestess?

T'ien Chi - 4 mages
Lo Pan - mandarin, undead, immortal, cursed, not flying, old age, H2 A2 E2 F2 B1
Thunder - straw hat, immortal, flying, H2, A3 E3, standard slots
Lightning - straw hat, immortal, flying, H2, A3 F3, standard slots
Rain - straw hat, flying, immortal, H2, A3 W3, standard slots
a la BTiLC http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Trouble_in_Little_China

Centuries ago, Lo Pan, a great warrior, was defeated in battle by the First Sovereign Emperor, Qin Shi Huang. The Emperor placed upon Lo Pan the curse of No Flesh. Although Lo Pan can be temporarily granted a decrepit body by supplication to the gods, in order to permanently break the curse and regain his human form he must marry a woman with green eyes, who must also be a daughter of a holy man (a fact not explicitly explored in the movie). Simply marrying her will please the God of the East; but to satisfy the Emperor, he must sacrifice her. Lo Pan is served by a ruthless street gang, the Wing Kong, and the Three Storms – three mystical henchmen named Thunder, Lightning and Rain.

[HoneyBadger]

Actually...in the movie, Lo Pan inquires about her father, stating "your father, he must have been a holy man!" This is not to say that her father being a holy man was a *requirement*, only that Lo Pan was wondering about her parentage-which would be a typical attitude of someone of royal caste in his time.

[Foodstamp]

Here is your banner!

[Foodstamp]

And a preview...

[Foodstamp]

bah, looks like the server is having issues. I will reupload the images in a little bit when it is FixT!

[Xietor]

Any volunteers to make a sprite of a ice imp? Basically the same as the fire imp but one that looks like an imp with 100 percent cr?

My tentative Epic Hero for a top secret(lol) cold race with blood magic is going to have a dominion summon of cold imps.

There may also be another treat involving them that he gets as an ability.

[VedalkenBear]

jutetrea: If you don't want the arm to ever be healed, simply selecting to only have one arm slot would be sufficient, I should think.

This of course immediately got me to thinking of Tyr. Hmm, the possibilities.

[Xietor]

I am glad to hear some thoughts on some of the races.

I have zero thoughts on Tien Chi or shin. zero ideas. So the
stuff on Tien Chi is good.

[DrPraetorious]

I was intending to add an "Ascended Master" as a national spell for T'ien Ch'i - it would make sense if these guys also appeared as multiheroes.

The spell is a national version of Mummification (same effect #) - except that it calls back a dead official from his post in the celestiral officialdom to serve at the side of the awakening God. Costs a pile of astral pearls (will finish balancing it when the next patch comes out.)

He's size 3, he has approximately the stat-line of a celestial servant but obviously no rake. He's Sacred, and he's further +1 to all magic paths (as a multihero, I suppose he'd have the same magic as a MA Celestial Master, before the +1). Not sure if he'd be balanced as a multihero at that rate - getting a W4 caster a LA T'ien Ch'i could be pretty crazy.

[Endoperez]

Foodstamp said:
bah, looks like the server is having issues. I will reupload the images in a little bit when it is FixT!



Exact same thing for me and the black phoenix images I posted earlier.

[Xietor]

Dr. if you want to try adding that as a tien chi epic hero,
that would be cool. The epic hero starts the game, and he can be very tough, and have huge mid game potential as a thug.

The limitation is that he not be able to take provinces solo at the start of the game without great risk of death.

If there is more than 1 submission for a particular race, we will use diplomacy and try and resolve it to everyone's satisfaction.

In the case of 2 fairly even submissions, maybe we can let Kristopher judge! I do plan on actually doing the work in creating the heroes(unless someone wants to make their own).

I am not doing sprites though, and am asking for volunteers to aid with those. If you want your own personal flavor to the hero, you should write his descr. and his stats. While i am willing to it, and do not mind doing it, I would think the descr. and stats are what would make the hero "personal" to you.

For this mod, every single hero that is not my own invention will be credited in a separate readme file, and also in the start of the mod to the person that created them. The same with the banner created by foodstamp, and any sprites that are done.

That way if any of the heroes or sprites are used in dom iv
you could get your well deserved recognition.

[VedalkenBear]

Hmm. Do we even _have_ a Mahayana Buddhist nation? If so, a Boddhisatva multihero would be _excellent_.

Maybe I should get to work on that Classical Japanese mod to have this... probably would be Air/Astral...

[Xietor]

Is there a way to have a Hero Cast "Battleshout?" It would have the same effect as fanaticism but I do not want to give the hero any magical paths or priestly abilities.

Sort of an innate ability of a good leader in combat to inspire his troops. I am aware, of course, of a battle standard. But I wanted the fanaticism effect.

[DrPraetorious]

I *believe* that the internal code supports autospells which are cast at the start of combat (for example, the Goat Sun's ability to cast Heat from Hell every battle.)

However, you can't currently access it through mod script, and I'm not sure if the internal code supports persistent instant spells (Fanatacism, Army of Gold) or only battlefield enchantments (Heat from Hell, Storm.)

I believe that the artifact luck sword (forget the name) actually gives all of your units luck, rather than putting up an enchantment that makes them lucky. That's an item but I'd expect that the internal code supports the same thing on units.

Anyway, it's in the modders wishlist, you could second the request if you wanted.

[Xietor]

I keep getting an error message "baddomsummon after I aded this:

domsummon2 "Ice Imp"

#end

#newmonster 2540
#name "Ice Imp"
#descr. "The Ice Imp is a lowly devil summoned from a frigid plane of the Netherworld, a region of mountainous glaciers and ice floes. A sacrifice of virgins and skill in blood magic is required to bring the Ice Imps to this Plane. Born of the deathly cold, Ice Imps are resistant to cold and susceptible to fire."
#copyspr 303
#size 1
#hp 8
#prot 6
#att 11
#def 13
#mor 9
#enc 1
#str 9
#mr 13
#prec 10
#ap 7
#mapmove 3
#flying
#cold res 100
#fire res -50
#demon
#neednoteat
#startage 350
#maxage 1000
#gcost 1

#weapon "claws"

#end

anyone see the problem?

[Endoperez]

Have you created the Ice Imp before it's referenced by the summoner? If it's after the summoner in the text file, it doesn't exist when the game finds that #domsummon2 line...

Also, check out the description of Frost Fiends. IIRC, the icy realm is Cocytos. Also, I don't think Dominions has Planes with a capital P.

[Xietor]

You are a friggin genius. That was the problem and i would never have guessed because i have another hero using the #makemonster command for a monster I create after he is done. So it is a bit weird the makemonster and domsummon work a bit differently in the order they read.

You are also correct about the descriptions on the frost devils, and i changed the Ice Imp to be consistent. I was using DnD thinking that had a frozen plane of Hell.

The Ice Imp will have his own sprite image reflecting that he is frozen and not a fire being, but i just copied the imp image to test out the balance of the thing.

[Foodstamp]

xietor, Your ice imp is done. Check your email http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Endo, check your PMs!

[Xietor]

/hug foodstamp The ice imp sprite was the last thing i needed to get my 1st 3 heroes finished.

Endoperez has one in the works. When we get all 4 into the the Epic Heroes Mod, we will release a beta version so the Epic Heroes can be taken for a spin.

After all the nerfs i did on beowulf, i played him a good bit and he kept dying in melee combat when his cowardly friends fled.

So I changed him some, and you can look at him in my soon to be posted beowulf 1.4.

His standard +25 was removed as it did not seem to make much difference anyway, and he was given an additional weapon, the longbow of accuracy, so he could actively participate in battle a bit more safely back with the longbows, rather then mixed in with the tower guards and wardens.


He was also given a makemonster command and he makes an entirely new thematic unit that was researched from the book Beowulf itself. The units are real, the nation is real.

Kristopher may even recognize them if he is up on his Nordic history! They are fierce, because that is the way they actually were.

The reason he was given a makemonster ability is so he can do something constructive at a castle. The casting heroes can research, hunt for gems, and forge items, a melee only hero can patrol(how exciting). So I borrowed the idea from Arrlen and he summons consistently with Arralen's Black Duke of Ulm in his Black Steel Ulm mod. The difference is Beowulf is the only unit that can summon, so it is not unbalanced.

Beowulf is the epic hero of Man, and his monstermaking ability makes him more fun, as i think the new units he summons are fun-and quite useful.

[Xietor]

The Beta version of Epic Heroes is attached. The mod's goal is to provide a starting hero for each MA race.

Thus far there are 4 starting heroes:
Beowulf for Man

The Black Phoenix for Abysia

The Obsidian Medium for Agartha(this was done in its entirety by Endoperez)

Blizzard, the Blood Jarl for Jotunheim.

I did none of the graphics. Foodstamp did the banner,and Endoperez and Foodstamp both made sprites. If you like to rp with heroes this mod is for you. It is compatible with Worthy Heroes, and the Reduced Old Age mod, both of which i highly recommend.

Your input is wanted! The good, the bad, and the ugly. My feelings will not be hurt. I am a novice, trying to adapt the game a bit for those like me that love heroes and role playing. That loves taking a character that has a world of potential and building him up slowly until get gets better equipment or key spells are researched that unlock his potential.

The goal was to keep the heroes from unbalancing the game by being too powerful at the start, during the critical early expansion phase.


Hopefully more will submit ideas about what would be a good theme for a hero. I think you will really be impressed by Endoperez' hero's theme. I was.

[llamabeast]

Doesn't seem to be attached Xietor.

Edit: Sorry, it is now.

[Xietor]

Due to popular demand, Beowulf's sprite was changed.

[Xietor]

My next planned hero will be the fallen angel mentioned above for pythium.

Is there a sprite library where you can view all the angel sprites?

[jutetrea]

Bugger, I forgot to "favorite" the thread so thought it wasn't being updated.

I like the idea of giving the makemonster ability to melee units, as well as giving them an archery out. Archery gives them a good way to slowly build up some initial experience and rise in the intial HOF.

Random thought: The idea is to give an initial hero correct? For highly religious (heavy holy) have the initial hero actually forced to be the prophet? Or even add a second. He would be the high priest of your religion (the founder of your cult), start with prophet ups/downs and be somewhat limited to your domain. It could fit with melee, magic or even just holy + special?

[Xietor]

Where to start?
Improved sprites by endoperez; descriptions completely redone. They are more thematic and much improved. typos were corrected, and 2 new heroes:

The Fallen Angel of Pythium(theme and parts of the description credited to Bandar Lover)

The Monkey King of Bandar Log(done by endoperez and slightly toned down from the one used in his Monkey King mod since this hero is present from the start).

So Epic Heroes now represents 6 of the 22 races. Enjoy! and feedback is important. It will allow me to make this mod better for you! I have tough skin, if you see something you think can be improved blast away.

[Xietor]

I plan to release a new beta version of the Epic Hero Mod every time I make 2 new Epic Heroes. After 22 Heroes are made,
beta will be over and then regular versions will just tweak for balance. Anyone is free to submit an idea for an Epic Hero for a race, and if it is better than a hero already created, it will be added, as long as the Mod is still in beta.

This hero is already done, and he may make you want to play Mictlan:

"A Jaguar Warrior is a devoted guardian of the Mictlan Temples. In battle he dons a Sacred Jaguar Hide. When wounded the blood from his wounds merges with the Sacred Jaguar Hide turning him into a Were Jaguar. The Were Jaguar is half man, half beast, and sacred.

The Blood-Cursed Champion was once a Jaguar Warrior and the bodyguard of an Onaqui, a powerful blood mage of an earlier era. Beset by Vampire assassins, the Onaqui performed an archaic blood ritual on his bodyguard, imbuing him with the tools to defeat any assassin. The Blood-Cursed Champion did not need to sleep or eat, and had night vision.

But the ritual was a blood lust curse, dooming him forever to Were Jaguar form. After making this discovery, the Blood-Cursed Champion slew the Onaqui and his Beast Bat minions, and then went into hiding.

Centuries passed-a new age dawned-and the Blood Cursed Champion heeded the new god's call, and returned to protect the High Temple. He is a legend to the Jaguar Warriors."

I have not started the 2nd additional hero yet, but hopefully he can be finished in the next day or 2. I am thinking of an immortal assassin for a weak mp race. Any thoughts?

[Endoperez]

Very nice descriptions! The Obsidian Medium's theme changed a bit too much, though. I thought it too alien to feel, or to be pleased. I'll PM you the description I want to use in the stand-alone mod. Any way, few typos, to be updated for the next version:

"Beowulf cut out the creature's heart and ate it to insure it remained dead." -> ensure
"Liking the scorched land, the Black Phoenix has come to view the Abysians as a kindred race." -> Would it be better as "Taking a liking to the scorched land..."?

The Blood Jarl of Niefel is currently just few hundred years older than the other Niefel (who all have maxage 1000). I'd increase his maxage by quite a bit, to perhaps 2000 or so. Startage would have to also be changed, of course.

I think the Fallen Angel is a bit too powerful as-is. For one, he's physically more powerful than Virtue pretender that Pythium can take, has good magic that's probably easier to use in battles (Twist Fate, Luck, Body Ethereal, Fire Shield). It can also bless itself, and prophetizing it would give Pythium a flying H4 prophet. And while it might not be able to take provinces on first turn, a bless, Alteration 1 (Personal Luck) or any armor (Construction 2) will greatly increase its power.

There are many things you could change or get rid of. Changing Fire magic to Air would keep him more in line with Pythium's other mages.
Getting rid of the Holy magic would give at least some reason not to make him your prophet (Arch Theurg would be the only way to reach Holy 4).
You might get rid of either Fire or Astral, making it less a mage and more a warrior.
Getting rid of the Awe would severely limit its power as an early expander.
Most if not all angels are Magic Beings, which makes them weak against certain spells and items. Giving him the Demon tag would give even more counters.
It might have lost its lightning resistance (vulnerable to the wrath of heavens).

[Xietor]

Endoperez, you have 100 percent say on the agarthian hero. let me know what you want it to say and i will have it changed for the next version.

Some good catches on typos also. I think the Angel is a bit overpowered and i will give some thought to balancing it. The issue is there are no weak angels. Heck one of the angels pythium summons has vengeance 2, and great stats to boot. I tried him at 1st and he rolled over everything on turn 1.

So you hate to have a nerfed angel as your epic hero. I cannot imagine him being a demon or not having priest magic.
Some angels have awe 5, and i reduced the awe a good bit. Their base description says they have awe, so i can make it the lowest awe possible, but i think the awe needs to stay.

The magic is most likely where the nerf will come. It does only have prot 7, so if it flies in to melee it will die. What armor can pythium make at const 2? I know at 4 they get the best there is with chain mail of displacement and silver hauberk. But I doubt pythium does down the const. tree 1st?

Once people can start playing these we will get a better idea what needs nerfed and what needs boosting. The angel also has a dom20 summon of a little angel. Did you catch that?

In the end they will be balanced. Weak races like mictlan will get the benefit of the doubt with its hero. In fact, the blood-cursed champion kicks major butt, and if he was the hero for vanaheim, pythium, arcos, or another power race id be concerned. But i am leaning towards giving the weaker races a slightly better hero anyway.

Pythium is not one of those weak races though, so i will give the angel some thought.



I am not sure Jut what you mean by forcing an Epic Hero to be the prophet. How could you do that?

[Endoperez]

Xietor said: So you hate to have a nerfed angel as your epic hero. I cannot imagine him being a demon or not having priest magic.
Some angels have awe 5, and i reduced the awe a good bit. Their base description says they have awe, so i can make it the lowest awe possible, but i think the awe needs to stay.



The Awe of angels is described as "radiant aura". Just saying "The Fallen Angel was permanently cast out of the heavens. It lost its radiant aura and most of the magical powers it once possessed." is enough to explain why it doesn't have Awe.

There is also ONE angel without awe and without priestly magic in the game. It is also a demon. Of course, I'm talking about the Fallen Angel blood summon, which seems to be restricted to LA Marignon nowadays.
It is sacred, magic being AND demon, flying, immune to fire but not to lightning, and has Fear instead of Awe. It uses a custom weapon that's pretty much a Flambeau without extra damage to undead. It's unit nr 626. I don't think your Fallen Angel should be as powerful. He has lost his earlier source of power and hasn't received Infernal power in its stead. I agree that giving your Fallen Angel the demon tag would be a bit drastic, but I was looking at this other Fallen Angel when thinking about that.



I am not sure Jut what you mean by forcing an Epic Hero to be the prophet. How could you do that?



The map editing commands allow you to set the pretender, prophet, even scales and such of your nation. Modding commands don't allow that, but the new #spreaddom lets you make a hero spread dominion like a prophet. It's a powerful ability, though, and should probably be reserved to old, "head of the church"-figures like the Patriarch or Cardinal heroes of Pythium and Marignon.

[jutetrea]

Ah, didn't know it was only map commands. How about the permanently blessed status of a prophet? Or the dominion/HP affects? Do either have a mod command?

The idea being that there are all these new gods fighting for top, each religion usually has a High Priest or Priestess...a cult leader. The prophet somewhat takes care of that, but you could also use it as a "reason" for having epic heroes in the first place. Especially for highly religious nations. The prophet is "usually" just going to be some shlep, either an existing H3 which isn't unique or a normal commander/scout (occasionally a summons or existing hero). This way your "prophet" is an instant bada$$ and converts more folks due to his bada$$ery and sermons.

I disagree that the #spreaddom has to be on an infirm unit. It just has to be thematic, in literature it seems that just as many cult heads are young and charismatic as there are old and "wise". You might have one of those little 1F guys from Marignon suddenly see the face of god and go all apocalyptic. Just depends on the story. (which i suck at btw)

Just some thoughts, and since I'm not that experienced with unit building/mods just want to brainstorm a bit. It might possibly fill that "cool" unit ability for straight melee heroes, or you might say it has to be the old infirm guy because it gives him a big jump in early useability to have 2 prophets.

Just thinking, and liking where you're going with this.

[Endoperez]

There're no modding commands for permanent bless, or for making his hp dependent on dominion.

There are High Priests like that in the game. Pythium has Bartholomeus the Patriarch, Marignon has Carmont the Cardinal - both are very old, very strong priests and quite weak mages.

I agree that #spreaddom could also be used for other heroes which are built around the ability, but it's a powerful ability and should stay quite rare.

[jutetrea]

I agree it should be rare, but 1 extra unique unit may not be gamebreaking. I've ended up with 3 prothets via LA Ry'leh, unfortunately they spent half the time insane so that may be the difference.

Would be nice if you could mod it just to create the initial hero as THE prophet, preventing the addition of another till death/6 mo. Then the whole theme of a mod could be powerful high priests/esses assisting the pretender. Nations with infirm units would get H4 or H5 with low movement, hp, old age, medium magic and melee based units would get the H3 + normal heroics.

I'm clueless on sprite creation, how difficult is it to add a rider to an animal? i.e. could you grab the rider from a behemoth or a cave knight and just copy it over? For instance, iron dragons/tarrasques are powerful units but actually very limited singly...lots of hp, but slow and mostly average stats. Possibly heroize larger animals and throw a rider on them, leviathan/monster fish/shark/kraken, etc... the ideas been thrown around a bit but it might make a good starting chassis.

[Sombre]

With the new sprite extraction is very very easy to stick a rider on a new mount.

[Xietor]

Shortly, I will be posting the beta0.2 version that will include :

Mictlan, The Blood-Cursed Champion
Pangaea, Black Heart Treant

The Fallen Angel is going to have its 3s removed and its awe lowered from awe2 to basic awe.

Agartha's hero's descr. tweaked to conform to endoperez specifications, a couple minor typos fixed, and the age of the blood jarl increased.

Ulm will be next, but my pace of cranking out heroes will be a bit slower from here on out. I have no ideas for any of the water races, or the newest ma race. They will be the last 4 added. There are several other races I have no ideas on either.

[Xietor]

Beta version(0.03)

The purpose of this mod is to provide a unique epic hero for all 22 of the MA races. I am updating the beta version every time I have 2 new heroes to add. We are now up to 10 Eric Heroes:

1. The Black Phoenix, Abysis
2. The Obsidian Medium, Agartha(added by Endoperez)
3. The Monkey King, Bandar Log(added by Endoperez)
4. The Blood-Cursed Champion, Mictlan
5. Beowulf, Man
6. The Blood Jarl, Jotunheim
7. The Fallen Angel, Pythium(Bandar Lover's idea)
8. The Immortal Assassin, machaka
9. The Black Duke of Ulm, Ulm(Arrlen's original idea, modified a bit).
10. Black Heart Treant, Pangaea

[Xietor]

I need help getting a sprite for a mountain yeti. The closest thing in game that i can think of is white minotaur hero of pangaea, and he would need some serious work to look like a yeti.

[Xietor]

Also needs ideas for a Tinker. there is a gnome that is spr 345 that may work, but this one is soooo much better.

[Xietor]

lastly, i used the Treelord for a treant for Pangaea,
but this is more entish looking.

[Endoperez]

Xietor said:
I need help getting a sprite for a mountain yeti. The closest thing in game that i can think of is white minotaur hero of pangaea, and he would need some serious work to look like a yeti.



What about this? It's double-sized jpg of the real pic. Pale One torso, Troglodyte legs. It should be easy to remove the boulders if you want to, but you were talking about giving each hero a ranged weapon...

[Sombre]

I think that looks fine.

Yay for perfect sprite extraction.

[Endoperez]

Here's the Yeti. I think it's the last sprite from me for some time. My little holiday is almost over.

[Xietor]

Thanks for the yeti. He looks awesome.

I posted a new version Beta 0.04. It only fixes a typo with that prevented the name "Immortal Assassin" from showing.

[Xietor]

Version 0.05 will be coming out later today, but will not add new heroes. For balance, some Epic heroes, who are also casters, are losing their summoning abilities.

This includes the Fallen Angel, the Immortal Assassin, and the Black Heart Treant, though the Treant may retain it, but just have it nerfed from vine ogres to vine men.

I consider the summoning abilities of the Blood-Cursed Champion, the Black Duke of Ulm, and Beowulf, as one of their core abilities, and they will retain them. Melee type heroes will have some sort of summon troop ability for the reasons stated in an earlier thread.

[Xietor]

I am going to move the Immortal Assassin to another race, and make a spider hero for Machaka. The storyline seems a bit contrived.

Anyone thoughts of a good fit for a vampire lord assassin? He is a powerful hero, and machaka is considered one of the weaker nations in the early game phase, so i thought a toned down vampire lord assassin would be good for balance. But I cannot resist making a spider hero for machaka-it just feels so right.

[BandarLover]

Spider hero would work better for Machaka.

Can't think of a middle age nation where a vampire hero would fit, would work better, I think, with late age Ulm.

[Xietor]

There is already a spider hero in worthy heroes. Back to the drawing board(:

[Xietor]

Beta 0.05 is attached at top of the thread.

It introduces 3 new Epic Heroes with new abilities added in patch 3.08.

This version adds:
1. Epic Hero for Ctis
2. Epic Hero for Caelum(i need to turn the sprite image white)(any volunteer would be appreciated).
3. Replaced the Vampire Lord Assassin for Machaka with a new Immortal Assassin, who features a backstab ability.

Technically, it is not a true back stab, but it has the same effect as one.

The Complete list as of Beta 0.05 is:


1. The Black Phoenix, Abysia
2. The Obsidian Medium, Agartha(added by Endoperez)
3. The Monkey King, Bandar Log(added by Endoperez)
4. The Blood-Cursed Champion, Mictlan
5. Beowulf, Man
6. The Blood Jarl, Jotunheim
7. The Fallen Angel, Pythium(Bandar Lover's idea)
8. The Immortal Assassin, Machaka
9. The Black Duke of Ulm, Ulm(Arralen's Black Steel Ulm Hero, modified a bit).
10. Black Heart Treant, Pangaea
11. The Sacred Yeti, Caelum
12. The Ancient Ophidian, Ctis

[Xietor]

Beta 0.06

Mainly corrected misspelled words in the descriptions, added gold costs to some heroes that inadvertently did not have them, and fixed a typo that affected any ulm unit wearing certain armor(made them faster).

The Black Heart Treant was further nerfed. no summons at all now, and hps reduced significantly. The entangle and sleep vines made the Treant too tough, even with a zero defense.

Still need ideas for Shin. and all 3 water races.

I think I have an idea for vanaheim and marignon, but if anyone has ideas for them, mine are not set in stone.

In about a week, I am going to host a mp game to test Epic Heroes. Llamabeast may be able to host it. I have 12 races available to play, and the map I made is designed for 9 players, with one being a water race. The water race position is designed for NEW players, not wily vets.

The mods to be used will be the reduced age mod, worthy heroes(hopefully it will be fixed soon), and epic hero mod.

Not every race will have an epic hero, but you have the option to pick any race you want to play. If you like a challenge pick a race without the epic hero. Or if there is a race that was poor in mp, you may want to try them out with the epic hero. Especially if they were good mid to late game but vulnerable early.

[Xietor]

beta 0.07 adds an Epic Hero Hannibal for Arcosephale.

1. The Black Phoenix, Abysia
2. The Obsidian Medium, Agartha(added by Endoperez)
3. The Monkey King, Bandar Log(added by Endoperez)
4. The Blood-Cursed Champion, Mictlan
5. Beowulf, Man
6. The Blood Jarl, Jotunheim
7. The Fallen Angel, Pythium(Bandar Lover's idea)
8. The Immortal Assassin, Machaka
9. The Black Duke of Ulm, Ulm(Arralen's Black Steel Ulm Hero, modified a bit).
10. Black Heart Treant, Pangaea
11. The Sacred Yeti, Caelum
12. The Ancient Ophidian, Ctis
13. Hannibal, Arcosephale

Coming soon for Marignon: The Tithe Collector

[Xietor]

Beta Version 0.08

Adds a new epic hero, the Tithe Collector, for marignon.

It also beefs up Beowulf and the Black Duke of Ulm a tad.

Beowulf has a shield bash and thunder kick, and the sword of no tomorrow is really that now. If you are hit with it, there is no tomorrow for you. His longbow of accuracy was traded in for the Longbow of Avalon.

Ulm-the Black Duke, a master forger, traded in his common lance for his newly designed "Blackest Lance." The Black Order Soldiers summoned by the Duke now look like Lord Guardian commanders, and their weapons are now the Black Duke Halberd, rather than the Black Duke Great Sword. same stats though, just a graphic change.


The complete list is now:

1. The Black Phoenix, Abysia
2. The Obsidian Medium, Agartha(added by Endoperez)
3. The Monkey King, Bandar Log(added by Endoperez)
4. The Blood-Cursed Champion, Mictlan
5. Beowulf, Man
6. The Blood Jarl, Jotunheim
7. The Fallen Angel, Pythium(Bandar Lover's idea)
8. The Immortal Assassin, Machaka
9. The Black Duke of Ulm, Ulm(Arralen's Black Steel Ulm Hero, modified a bit).
10. Black Heart Treant, Pangaea
11. The Sacred Yeti, Caelum
12. The Ancient Ophidian, Ctis
13. Grand Elephantarch, Arcosephale
14. Tithe Collector, Marignon


Enjoy!

[Tyrian]

I have an idea for the three era of ermor:
-the Early Age, a young great and ambitious general. Not a very good warrior (slightly better than normal ermor commander) but a hight standard and the capacity to summon elite soldier. This capacity simulate the general capacity to train elite trooper.

-Middle Age: The young general became an old emperor who the live was extended by dark magic. It is physically weak, but many victory in past give him a great aura in the army. He have the capacity to free spawn for the elite soldier of the Early Age, a better standard and maybe death magic.

-Late Age: Greatly responsable of the ermorian fall, the old emperor and his elite soldier are damned for eternity. The old emperor free spawn a spectral version of the elite trooper. The old emperor is a powerfull priest (4-5) and a capable dark mage (3?). His eternal damnation give him immortality and a spectrale state. His presence and reputation are terrible for the living (fear +? ).

This ideas are a rapid draft.

[Xietor]

Tyrian, very good idea. But I was working on Ermor most of the day, and was posting the new 0.09 version to include Ermor's Epic Hero-The Betrayer of Ctis. I will pm you shortly.

Beta Version 0.09 adds an Epic Hero for Ermor, "Betrayer of Ctis."

The complete list is now:

1. The Black Phoenix, Abysia
2. The Obsidian Medium, Agartha(added by Endoperez)
3. The Monkey King, Bandar Log(added by Endoperez)
4. The Blood-Cursed Champion, Mictlan
5. Beowulf, Man
6. The Blood Jarl, Jotunheim
7. The Fallen Angel, Pythium(Bandar Lover's idea)
8. The Immortal Assassin, Machaka
9. The Black Duke of Ulm, Ulm(Arralen's Black Steel Ulm Hero, modified a bit).
10. Black Heart Treant, Pangaea
11. The Sacred Yeti, Caelum
12. The Ancient Ophidian, Ctis
13. Grand Elephantarch, Arcosephale
14. Tithe Collector, Marignon
15. Betrayer of Ctis, Ermor


Enjoy!

[Xietor]

Bah,

to show how rarely i play ma ermor, i had no idea they already have a sauromancer hero(: Great minds think alike turin!

The hero for Ermor will be replaced, with something.

[BandarLover]

DOH!! TOO LATE! Just saw your post and was gonna tell you your idea sounded a little TOO familiar. Wish I could think of something else for you but I'm no good at these hero ideas.

[HoneyBadger]

I was thinking, for a hero, it'd be nice if there were atleast 1 sacred gift-of-reason'ed hydra in the game-maybe for Pythium, maybe for another nation that has connections to Pythium. I'm just saying.

[Xietor]

worthy heroes has a hydra for pythium and ctis already. of course they do not start the game. you need a bit of luck for them to show up.

[Xietor]

Beta version 0.10 adds the Mad Tinker of Vanaheim. A truly heart wrenching story, that makes you pull for the little gnome.

The complete list is now:

1. The Black Phoenix, Abysia
2. The Obsidian Medium, Agartha(added by Endoperez)
3. The Monkey King, Bandar Log(added by Endoperez)
4. The Blood-Cursed Champion, Mictlan
5. Beowulf, Man
6. The Blood Jarl, Jotunheim
7. The Fallen Angel, Pythium(Bandar Lover's idea)
8. The Immortal Assassin, Machaka
9. The Black Duke of Ulm, Ulm(Arralen's Black Steel Ulm Hero, modified a bit).
10. Black Heart Treant, Pangaea
11. The Sacred Yeti, Caelum
12. The Ancient Ophidian, Ctis
13. Grand Elephantarch, Arcosephale
14. Tithe Collector, Marignon
15. Betrayer of Ctis, Ermor
16. Mad Tinker, Vanheim


Enjoy!

[Horst F. JENS]

started a game as Man with the Beowulf hero. I'm very impressed. Good Job !

[Xietor]

Thank you for the kind words Horst. It is a great feeling to know someone enjoys the mod.


Spoiler: When you play some of these heroes, leave them in a strong dominion for a a few turns and you may see something that ties in with their descr.

Double Spoiler: especially with the Tithe Collector, the Mad Tinker, and the Grand Elephantarch. And with the Mad Tinker, do not be fooled with what appears on the 1st turn or 2 in a strong dominion, it will take a few turns for the theme to be complete.

[llamabeast]

Xietor, just a quickie while I'm passing - 'Vanaheim' is spelt Vanheim.

I'm going to try to take another proper look at this mod soon, it looks like it's growing really well.

[Xietor]

Yeah, thanks for the catch llama. Too bad spell check does not catch these fantasy game names. sigh.

I likely will need to proof every single one of the race names for spelling before i go out of beta. thanks.

[Xietor]

Beta version 0.11

No new heroes.

1. corrects an embarrassing misspelled word(Vanheim)(thanks llamabeast)

2. Nerfs the prot and def of the Elephantarch a bit, he was too powerful on turn one(this was suggested privately by one of our lurkers who never posts)(and i agreed)(thanks for the feedback).

3. Minor changes to the Tithe Collector-he was given his inquisitor symbol back and a level 1 priestly ability(rather than none). His description changed accordingly from "never preaches" to "rarely preaches."

[Xietor]

beta 0.12 adds the Ancient Master for Shin.

He has a devastating Quivering Palm attack, as well as "Whirling Fists" that break arrows in mid flight.

The updated list is now:

1. The Black Phoenix, Abysia
2. The Obsidian Medium, Agartha(added by Endoperez)
3. The Monkey King, Bandar Log(added by Endoperez)
4. The Blood-Cursed Champion, Mictlan
5. Beowulf, Man
6. The Blood Jarl, Jotunheim
7. The Fallen Angel, Pythium(Bandar Lover's idea)
8. The Immortal Assassin, Machaka
9. The Black Duke of Ulm, Ulm(Arralen's Black Steel Ulm Hero, modified a bit).
10. Black Heart Treant, Pangaea
11. The Sacred Yeti, Caelum
12. The Ancient Ophidian, Ctis
13. Grand Elephantarch, Arcosephale
14. Tithe Collector, Marignon
15. Betrayer of Ctis, Ermor
16. Mad Tinker, Vanheim
17. Ancient Master, Shin.

Enjoy! I will be adding one more hero in the near future, then doing a good bit of play testing while I await some heroes being done by others.

[Horst F. JENS]

Just found out that Bowulf of Man can summon Allies...and not bad ones ! Is this mod compatible with Conceptual 1.1 Mod ?

[Velusion]

I'm following this thread with interest. There is definitely enough background to create multiple starting heros. It would be cool to allow players to pick from a list of starting hero(s) or randomize it. The former could probably be achieved by a customized nation selection list I would think...

Also interested to see if you expand out to other eras after you finish the middle age.

[Xietor]

This mod will when it is tweaked for balance, be fully compatible with the CB mod.

In fact I have spoken to QM about it already. The only race my mod changes is Ulm. The Black Duke of Ulm is a Master Smith, and he has made the "full plate of Ulm" a bit lighter(goes from 5 enc to 3)and it also removes the def penalty. So any of Ulm's units that wear the full plate of ulm will have slightly less enc and more defense.

QM said he did not think that change alone will suddenly turn Ulm into a great mp race.

Everyone of the Epic Heroes that is a melee hero has some sort of summon ability, where he can raise troops. The most powerful of the raised troops are Ulms. Though Beowulf's are certainly not bad either. The Black Order Soldiers trained by the Black Duke are very tough. 20 of them and the Black Duke cleared Bogus and his band with few losses.

All of my Melee Epic Heroes will also have some sort of ranged attack, typically a bow, but the Shin. Ancient master has a more themed range attack. The Yeti of Caelum can hurl boulders etc.

[DrPraetorious]

Okay, here's my writeup for T'ien Ch'i's Ascended Master. He's a celestial master and a master of the five elements at the same time, and he has +1 on all of his magic skills to boot. He may be a little overpowered, but he's not thuggable which most of these mighty heroes are.

For artwork, I suggest Amos' cool-looking blood elf druid (the one in a blue robe, it can be found in his blood elves mod.) He gave permission for people to borrow that artwork if they wish.

*In line code deleted because it was messing up the screen.*

[Xietor]

The kind Dr. is one who graciously agreed to add his good name to the Epic Hero Mod, and he is one of the ones I was waiting on(no rush though guys).

In fact, I have redone Ermor's hero, since worthy heroes already had a sauromancer hero.

I have also "nerfed" a few more heroes.

1. The blood jarl no longer gets a dominion summon of frost fiends.
He does still get his ice imps and 1 blood slave a turn.

2. The fallen Angel's natural protection was lowered from 7 to 0.

So to be any type of thug, the angel will need some type of armor, and pythium does not have earth gems.

So I do not see the fallen angel being a tough thug too early in the game.

3. The elephantarch natural prot was lowered a good bit, but he was given starting armor(elephant barding).

He would have been too tough with a starting prot of 14 once he got armor on him to boot.


Most of the heroes ranged attacks are coded so they will not disappear when you give them weapons.

Attacks like Thunder Kick, Quivering Palm, and Whirling Fists are also coded and will always be an attack the hero will have, regardless of items that he is given.

The mod is still in beta. And it is still being tested for balance. Feedback is needed and appreciated.

At this time, there are no plans to expand the Epic Heroes to allow a choice.

That idea is cool, but I want to focus on tweaking the existing heroes a good bit before expanding to other ages or adding options.

Kristopher said he loves heroes.

Maybe after this mod gets out of beta and if he thinks it is a good concept, he can tinker with it as Velusion suggested.

I am extremely limited in adding unique heroes by my total lack of graphical ability.

That I have made it this far is only because of the generous nature of Foodstamp and Endoperez who have done artwork.

[Foodstamp]

I have finished the Eriu Hero. Here is a screenshot of what he looks like in game. I used a Marverni druid as the base, recolored the robe and gave him a custom attack animation.

I will upload him along with the other graphic sometime today. You will need to change the monster number to whatever fits in with the mod, and look him over for imbalances.

EDIT: Forum is not accepting attachments again.

http://static.filefront.com/images/personal/t/taleskay/83114/ihxyublqpg.jpg

[Xietor]

Does anyone know the nation number for eriu?

Manual has number 45 as reserved, but i tried that and it apparently is not correct.

Mod manual is silent on the nation number for the Eriu.

[Foodstamp]

It's number 69. I already have it in the mod file, you just need to copy-paste and change the unit number and look him over for imbalances.

[Xietor]

Beta version 0.14 adds a good bit of content.

There were the balance changes to the Blood Jarl, Elephantarch, and Fallen Angel.

Two new heroes were added thanks to Foodstamp and Dr. Praetorious.

And I changed Ermor's hero to one that hopefully is unique!

The weapon numbers used, armor number used, and custom names used are up to date. Hopefully the credits are up to date as well.

The updated list is now:

1. The Black Phoenix, Abysia
2. The Obsidian Medium, Agartha(added by Endoperez)
3. The Monkey King, Bandar Log(added by Endoperez)
4. The Blood-Cursed Champion, Mictlan
5. Beowulf, Man
6. The Blood Jarl, Jotunheim
7. The Fallen Angel, Pythium(Bandar Lover's idea)
8. The Immortal Assassin, Machaka
9. The Black Duke of Ulm, Ulm(Arralen's Black Steel Ulm Hero, modified a bit).
10. Black Heart Treant, Pangaea
11. The Sacred Yeti, Caelum
12. The Ancient Ophidian, Ctis
13. Grand Elephantarch, Arcosephale
14. Tithe Collector, Marignon
15. Misshapen Angel, Ermor
16. Mad Tinker, Vanheim
17. Ancient Master, Shin.
18. Li Bo, T'ien Ch'i(Dr. Praetorious)
19. Cathbad, Eriu (Foodstamp)


Enjoy! I will be adding one more hero in the near future, then doing a good bit of play testing while I await some heroes being done by others.

[Xietor]

This version adds Soulstealer, an epic hero for the R'lyeh.
Summoned through the void gate from a distant star-and it was not real happy about it.

Also, Ctis' Epic Hero gets a very unique new monster.
I just love this guy, and thanks to Amos for the sprite!

The updated list is now:

1. The Black Phoenix, Abysia
2. The Obsidian Medium, Agartha(added by Endoperez)
3. The Monkey King, Bandar Log(added by Endoperez)
4. The Blood-Cursed Champion, Mictlan
5. Beowulf, Man
6. The Blood Jarl, Jotunheim
7. The Fallen Angel, Pythium(Bandar Lover's idea)
8. The Immortal Assassin, Machaka
9. The Black Duke of Ulm, Ulm(Arralen's Black Steel Ulm Hero, modified a bit).
10. Black Heart Treant, Pangaea
11. The Sacred Yeti, Caelum
12. The Ancient Ophidian, Ctis
13. Grand Elephantarch, Arcosephale
14. Tithe Collector, Marignon
15. Misshapen Angel, Ermor
16. Mad Tinker, Vanheim
17. Ancient Master, Shin.
18. Li Bo, T'ien Ch'i(Dr. Praetorious)
19. Cathbad, Eriu (Foodstamp)
20. Soulstealer, R'lyeh(idea of a void assassin-tyrian)

I am going to be hosting a 9 player mp game soon featuring the Epic Hero Mod, the Worthy Hero Mod, and the reduced old age mod. Maybe another mod also, but undecided on that one.

The map is 110 provinces, 8 water. And the water spot is the best spot. Hopefully I can run it on llamabeast's server with a 24 hour a turn host rate.

[Xietor]

Beta version .17 corrected many errors. Some duplicate monster numbers were causing some improper dominion summoning. All 20 of the epic heroes have been tested now.

I reorganized the mod so that all new weapons are listed in order at the start of the mod. Before the mod leaves Beta, the same will happen to new armor and new monster summons. Did not have time or energy to tackle that today.

Beta .17 adds my last epic hero to the mod, the renegade starspawn for Atlantis. The final epic hero is under construction now by Edi. My goal is to bring the mod out of beta on Thursday.

Mictlan's hero has really been beefed up. No one seems to want to play Mictlan in mp. Well its starting hero can take provinces solo from the start. He is not invincible though, as he was killed taking the 2nd province i attacked with him, that had 3 lighting casters. he died in 1 round to lighting bolts. He also was given berserk, so he will win or die in fights. Sort of his curse. So it would still pay to be prudent with him. Jaguar warriors come to him in huge numbers.


The updated list is now:

1. The Black Phoenix, Abysia
2. The Obsidian Medium, Agartha(added by Endoperez)
3. The Monkey King, Bandar Log(added by Endoperez)
4. The Blood-Cursed Champion, Mictlan
5. Beowulf, Man
6. The Blood Jarl, Jotunheim
7. The Fallen Angel, Pythium(Bandar Lover's idea)
8. The Immortal Assassin, Machaka
9. The Black Duke of Ulm, Ulm(Arralen's Black Steel Ulm Hero, modified a bit).
10. Black Heart Treant, Pangaea
11. The Sacred Yeti, Caelum
12. The Ancient Ophidian, Ctis
13. Grand Elephantarch, Arcosephale
14. Tithe Collector, Marignon
15. Misshapen Angel, Ermor
16. Mad Tinker, Vanheim
17. Ancient Master, Shin.
18. Li Bo, T'ien Ch'i(Dr. Praetorious)
19. Cathbad, Eriu (Foodstamp)
20. Soulstealer, R'lyeh(idea of a void assassin-tyrian)
21. Renegade Starspawn(idea of Edi).

[Xietor]

I am happy to announce that Epic Heroes Mod is out of beta. Heroes have been tested, typos removed, mod files organized, and a text file added to thank the many contributors to the mod.

The final list:

1. The Black Phoenix, Abysia
2. The Obsidian Medium, Agartha(added by Endoperez)
3. The Monkey King, Bandar Log(added by Endoperez)
4. The Blood-Cursed Champion, Mictlan
5. Beowulf, Man
6. The Blood Jarl, Jotunheim
7. The Fallen Angel, Pythium(Bandar Lover's idea)
8. The Immortal Assassin, Machaka
9. The Black Duke of Ulm, Ulm(Arralen's Black Steel Ulm Hero, modified a bit).
10. Black Heart Treant, Pangaea
11. The Sacred Yeti, Caelum
12. The Ancient Ophidian, Ctis
13. Grand Elephantarch, Arcosephale
14. Tithe Collector, Marignon
15. Misshapen Angel, Ermor
16. Mad Tinker, Vanheim
17. Ancient Master, Shin.
18. Li Bo, T'ien Ch'i(Dr. Praetorious)
19. Cathbad, Eriu (Foodstamp)
20. Soulstealer, R'lyeh(idea of a void assassin-tyrian)
21. Renegade Starspawn(idea of Edi).
22. King-in-Exile, Oceania(Edi).

This version is not intended to be "final." This mod is my baby and I will always be refining the descriptions. In fact the Black Treant's descr. has been fine tuned a bit already, but that does not warrant a new version.

When I host a mp game, and receive feedback on balance issues, changes will be made. To prevent having new versions every day, now that the Mod is live(out of beta), new versions will include several changes made over the course of a week.

In fact, changes will be made daily to the mod, likely for weeks to come, before i am happy with every descr. The only descr. that is 100 percent safe is the Obsidian Medium, and that is only because Endoperez and I literally spent many hours going over every phrase in that descr.

[Xietor]

I am going to keep a running tab here of the changes for 1.1. When enough are made, i will release 1.1


1. Black Heart Treant-
a. descr is improved
b. added 1n and 1e.

2. Tithe Collector
a. itemslot issue fixed(he had 2 heads 3 misc)
In 1.1 he will have 1 head and 2 misc. I did catch this myself, but how i missed it when i did a preview of all 22 heroes is puzzling.
b. minor typo corrected

3. Ancient Ophidian-descr tweaked, typo corrected.

4. Sacred Yeti-

a.precision increased.

b. makemonster ability changed from 3 wingless to 1 winter wolf.

c. Magicleader added(so he can lead his winter wolves).

5. Grand Elephantarch:

a. Elephant Barding's prot lowered, so his starting prot is now 15.

b. His make unit ability changed from 2 heart companions to 2 hoplites.

c. Elephantarch enc raised from 0 to 1.

6.Black Phoenix-fire imps come to him now in great numbers.

7. Blood Jarl-

a. ice imps now radiate cold(even though fire imps do not radiate fire), and they have ice prot(stronger in cold weaker in hot climates).

b. Blood Jarl lost his free blood slave a turn abilty.

[jutetrea]

I ran the mod on a 22 human player map, just to check out the heroes and summons. These are initial impressions only and have not been playtested. I'm very excited about the mod and loved what I saw. Any nation I do not make mention of means I love the hero and how it fits and have no comments other than Schweeet!

Very strong, too strong?
Ulm, Man, Arco, Bandar
These seem to be SC's in their own right. Just by looking at the stats and not play testing, they seem to be more powerful than most summons and quite a few semi-sc pretenders. The low hp are their biggest weakness, but they would still dominate SP (probably defeatable with SC specific MP strategies, but pretty much all are). This is mostly off just stats, some of the items are really cool but pretty crazy - and then there are the summons. Essentially free gold for fantastic troops.
32 prot!

Summoning sacreds.
I think the Mict hero is damn cool, but 5(?) free sacreds a turn? that's 120 free gold right off the bat, no hit on the max dominion-based recruiting, and pretty much sweet units to begin with. Maybe just warriors.
Arco - not too terrible, but I think should be regular hoplites and not sacred HC's.
C'tis - sacred serpents, were never very impressed by them to begin with, but still sacred, low upkeep and blessabel.

Machaka - what a sweet ability! love it! Almost too powerful, but very, very cool. Does decay have a max amount of aging/damage or do they age till their dead? If till dead I actually think its too powerful. If he gets one shot off on a 300 hp unit and it dies.. that's a bit much. Maybe use the sharpest tooth's poison?

Black phoenix - looks real cool, love the artwork. Possibly weak?

Weak heroes, IMO (or maybe still good, but not up to snuff with the others)
Caelum - bit average, did i miss anything?
Pan - bit too nerfed? or is it still a gangbuster?
Van - compared to the others this guy seems very weak. Does he have a special I didn't notice? Essentially just a free 200g mage.
Oceania - bit average it seems, did I miss anything?

Ry'leh - scary, very much like the lack of slots. How does this guy do in melee?

Shin - love the hero, appropriate summons (good but not as fantastic as above), cool abilities

Tien - would dropping 1S and adding either 1F or 1E break him? Astral isn't a huge problem and can get randomly, cannot get 3F or 3E randomly.

Love it and definitely want to get in on your first game. I'd almost recommend random nations as well.

[jutetrea]

would also love to see this extended to EA

[Xietor]

Talk to Kristopher!

I love Dominions, but I never realized when I tackled this mod how much work would be involved in cranking out 22 unique thematic heroes-and i had a good bit of help. So I did not have to do all 22.

We are talking maybe one hundred hours of work. And I will be play testing, looking for ways to improve the descrs. for at least a month.

Turin is going to incorporate at least some of these heroes into his Worthy Heroes, but only for the EA and LA. I did not want these heroes used in the ma of worthy heroes, as it would seem weird to have 2 of Beowulf.

And Epic Heroes Mod(MA) may inspire someone else to do one for the EA or LA. I really believe that having a starting epic hero should cost design points, and maybe that would be a feature of Dom IV. For 40 points you start with your race's epic hero.

Still have not received much feedback on the likes or dislikes of the various heroes besides Beowulf. I am always curious to know how they are being received, and possible ways to improve upon them.

[Xietor]

Van-well they have the best early expansion, so they get a 6 hp hero. But all heroes are very useful. Did you take a strong dominion and let the tinker sit in it a bit? He makes things ya know! Nice things!

Mictlan-Jaguar warriors die pretty easy. And in the 62 player game, no one wanted to play MA Mictlan. That hero is a bit overpowered on purpose.

The Sacred Yeti weak? He does summon wingless which are not too good. But he has 40 hps! Look at the claws on him? Fear
plus 5 also. 20 prot. Fear the yeti! I may beef up his ranged attack. I made a special throw boulder attack but with his poor prec and the boulder's -4, he never hits anything.

Man-Beowulf was my 1st hero, and he is a bit tough.

Bandar needs all the help they can get. Monkey king was endoperez creation and i nerfed him to 8 hp. He is still wicked powerful, but bandar sucks so i give them some slack.
He also causes unrest, and has other negative features!

Ulm-They need a powerful hero. Anyone that has a mr of 9 needs help. And the Black Duke's hp are not exceptional. His does have a wicked summon.

Elephantarch-He may be overpowered, especially since arcos is a tough mp race anyway.

Black Phoenix may appear weak, but it is flying immortal and is 3 fire. That means it can harass armies in its dominion as well as the pretender phoenix can.

Machaka is not a strong race, so we can give the immortal assassin's backstab ability the benefit of the doubt.

Do not call Oceania average-Edi made that hero. heh.

Dr. P made the t'ien chi hero. I nerfed it a tad actually by taking away its flying, but added the weapons and a couple other things.

[Xietor]

oh, and lol. Leave that Ctis hero in a strong dominion and look what she summons. It does not get much better than that!

And I am adding 1e1n to pan. next version.

I am worried about the elephantarch. he may be a bit too powerful. Did you see his special summon? leave him in a strong dom a few turns.

[jutetrea]

K, didn't see any of the domsummons yet, just played for 2 turns to see what summon allies does. I'll check that out later.

Yeti - I didn't think he had comparable stats for a melee and his summons weren't up to par with ulm/man/arco. Not sure if he had any other abilities.

K, I can see the Mict hero for MA...but that's one I'd think should be nerfed a bit for EA/LA. But I'm a Mict noob so could be wrong. Even if jag warriors are kind of weak, they're still sacred, and a free 120 gold. Pretty much giving any free sacreds kind of messes up the point cost limitation of having a high dom. At 20g Mict seems like it would be limited by its purchase of 4-8/turn and then add another 6 on top?

I'll test out the Arco hero later, seems like a great early indy killer with some support. Not sure how it would work as an MP SC.. SP I think it would rock.

Ulm - even if his hp's are great... pretty much everything else is. Before playtesting, my initial inclination would be to either drop some def or nerf his item effects. Obviously not sure till i get to play with it.

Machaka - think it matters if its a guarenteed kill. Being immortal he can kamikaze pretenders, die but still get the kill.

TC - losing the flying is kind of wierd thematically, but maybe necessary. All the blue robes in EA fly, but I don't think in LA and I'm not familiar with MA TC so unsure. Still think 3F or 3E would be a huge help.

Hmm, so i have to check for dom summons for C'tis and Van - will do.

Love the idea, and the implementation. Like the fact so far that there seem to be quite a few quirky things (summons, interesting items and such) which I like a lot.

[jutetrea]

Interesting on the dom summons - few comments

Should the ice imps get cold aura?

Never saw a domsummons for C'tis at dom 6, just the serpents

dom summons from van are nice, makes him much better. Does he have a forge bonus? can't remember. If not, IMO he should.

tithe collector.. Am I missing something? Do the summons do anything?

Ry'leh - does he have a summon?

Yeti - seems like he has good volume, but still lower quality troops

Is backstab MR resistable? Or does it need to pass defense/prot? Only tried twice, but failed to hit both times.

[Xietor]

Jut, thanks for the initial feedback.

It really helps. You do need to consider their whole package though and that includes special summons. The whole point of the Tinker(if you read the descr) is what he builds. Same with marignon. The tithe collector builds a sacred monument, and while it cannot hit back, hitting them does have consequences.

Read the descr of that thing ctis summons. I know for a fact that the balance is not right on. It needs a good bit of testing.

Your advice on the sacred summons is good, and i will have to consider it. They do not have to pay the big upfront cost, then they get 1/2 maintenance because they are sacred.

Mictlan is so bad i really do not mind. But the others....
I think i will remove sacred summons for arcos for sure and replace it with a hoplite. 2 serpents for ctis i can live with, and it is thematic with a snake hero.

[Edi]

If the Oceanian hero is average, is that from the point of view of using it as a supercombatant? It was hardly intended to be that, but a mage. It provides Oceania with access to magic it would not otherwise get, though I suppose increasing the magic levels by 1 would make it more impressive.

I had no time to go through the Worthy Heroes mod or look at the other stuff in Epic Heroes, so I threw it together quickly and it could be below average for this mod. If it's underpowered compared to what the benchmark should be, it is no big deal to increase the stats. I was looking more at the thematics and story, which is the hardest thing to do well when designing a hero. Stas are always easy to adjust.

[Xietor]

Well,

What ctis summons is pretty darn powerful, so they do not come often. same with marignon. To test what they get, start with a dom 10 awake pretender, make a prophet and keep clicking that turn button.

If ctis got many of those things, it would be too overpowering, so they come rarely and only in strong dom.

Make sure you read the descr. Most of the work has been on the descr, as edi said. Ryleh summons zip. he is powerful as he is. Atlantis has a summon though.

[jutetrea]

Edi, average only in the sense that he reminds me of the Atlantean hero who I've only seen once or twice. Its almost like Atlantis stole a Ry'leh standard hero and Oce stole an atlantean standard hero. Not bad because they introduce unavailable paths.

Well, in comparison with some of the heroes he seems good but in comparison with the melee heroes he seems less exciting. Remember, this is without playtesting yet, but maybe an ability or as you said jack the paths by 1.

I'll be able to test a bit today, it seems like the melee heroes are a bit more exciting, more risk (how much would it suck to get them killed early), cooler abilities, and better stats. On the other hand I think the mage heroes will be all around more useful, especially the ones that introduce new paths.

Still confused on the tithe collectors summons. Place up front and let them get hit? defense and no offense? If so, (a bit harder to test, means i'd have to actually invade myself) it might be pretty cool. Almost goes in with the idea I had of defensive towers. Did they move 1/0 or something? fully immobile is a bit tough, but i guess thematic with the desc. of the collector.

[Xietor]

Read the descr of the tithe collector. He is about spreading faith. His summons are sacred monuments. If you read their descr. it basically tells you that they also spread faith.

They spread faith the same as a prophet would in the square.

They cannot fight, but when they are stuck, their god strikes the heretic blind! Click on someone who attacks one of those statutes.

[Edi]

jutetrea, the idea of a Starspawn hero for Atlantis came from the description of Chuddar KAdul, the Seer King, who is one of the Atlantean heroes originally in the game. His description refers to learning Astral magic from a captive/renegade Starspawn hidden beneath the Coral Towers. Shadul Ummush, the Traitor King, is the R'lyeh hero, an Atlantian who switched sides for personal gain. I have had ideas of exile heroes for a while, so having a surviving Basalt King was the easiest story to come up with.

That was the reasoning behind the choices. Obviously improvement in one aspect or another is always possible. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Xietor]

In Edi's defense, I really like the Basalt King in exile's storyline. Especially if you know the history.

And while the melee heroes ARE more exciting, they also die easier in combat, and longterm, may be less powerful than the mages who open up new paths.

The Mad Tinker, though he has only 6 hp, is likely more useful to Vanheim over the course of a game then a melee type hero. Having Watchers in your castles and patrolling is a nice bonus. He also has nature magic, and can spy. A very versatile little gnome.

[jutetrea]

No defense necessary, I think you guys are misunderstanding me.

I was primarily looking at power/utility. Average being nothing jumped out at me why this guy would be epic vs a standard hero. On the power scale I would probably put him near the bottom of the second tier. For instance, the van gnome I thought was too weak, but he has a great summoning ability which jumps him up a bunch of notches so he's equivalent with most of the other nations.

Oceania's hero just seems like a standard hero to me, even with adding new paths. Just preference, and just referring to relative power. I just think that bumping a level or two or adding an ability (heal, assasinate, domsummon, ally summon, -dom, +dom, +research, +gems, etc) may bring him up a few notches. The forge ability almost does it (and may in testing, not sure).

Again these were just my initial thoughts on something I like, not a hit on your hero specifically.

[jutetrea]

Ok, the C'Tis big summons is sweet! Have yet to gift of reason him, want to see what his slots are.

Bandar's 32 prot isn't as unreal as I thought.. low morale, low hp weaken him although he's still kind of cool. Maybe prophetize him and only use in domain?

Got the machaka assassin killed outside of domain vs. a flyer with an escort. BS'd an escort then harbringer came in and beat on me.

Since these are unique, it might be cool to have a national spell for all nations (lvl 5, ench, national strong path) similar to gift of rebirth but instead of bringing a mummy back it recalls the hero. Probably not, but I've quit SP games where I've lost my favorite hero.

What was the reasoning behind bow of war on the Mict hero and 2D on the ulm hero? Just curious

[Xietor]

I gave all melee heroes a summons and a ranged weapon. There was no special reason the Blood-Cursed Champion got a Bow of War. Mictlan stinks, and i wanted a weapon that fired 13 arrows!

The Black Duke of Ulm idea was a commander from Arralen's Black Steel Ulm mod. Though i made some radical changes to him, i liked the name, the sprite, and the fact he summoned-all of which were borrowed from Arralen(with his permission).

But i created the Black Order Soldier he summons,added the forge ability, the magical steed, and because Ulm suffers from a horrific mr penalty, decided to give the "Black" Duke of Ulm a reason to be black. Obviously Arralen intended him to be black named after his black plate he wears. Since I wanted to make the Black Duke of Ulm formidable enough that Ulm became a valid mp choice, I added the 2d to him.

With the Black Duke of Ulm, Ulm gains:

1. access to death magic
2. a well equipped thug hero
3. black order soldiers-the best make units of any hero.
There are better strong dominion summons, but they are hard to amass, and will not come at all unless the dominion is strong.

Beowulf, Black Duke, and the other melee heroes can make troops in any dominion, and you know what you are getting each turn. Some of the stronger nations with melee heroes, do not get a very good make unit ability.

Ctis, Caelum, arcos. all have melee heroes, but the units they can make on a per turn basis are not nearly as good as the Black Duke. Though i changed the yeti from wingless to something more thematic. He is a creature of the wild, there was no thematic tie-in for him to make wingless.

So in the next version you will see something-different. More thematic.

4. great forge bonus-including a modification to all ulm units wearing full plate of ulm

In short, MA Ulm needed a reason for more people to play them-the Black Duke of Ulm is that reason.

[jutetrea]

Sounds good, hopefully be able to play with them a bit later. Created a 22 person game, all gods dormant, 10 dom, luck3 (to see other heroes hopefully), and as much of a bless as possible. Staled everyoen the first turn, without even looking at them... lost like 6 of them to dom kill doh. Kind of a pain to do 22 pretenders so i'll hopefully get back to it later.

[Xietor]

I think you will have more fun, and get a better feel for a hero, by playing one of the races you like. Against the AI.

That way you can fully test the limits of the hero for your favorite race. I think you will find, for instance, that the Yeti is very tough. He is tougher in cold climates. What you may not have noticed is he has 2 "Yeti Claws." There are ap,
and with his high att and str, not many units can survive an attack by the Yeti. He also radiates cold, has a strong fear, strong movement, and a thick hide.

I feared the ryleh hero may be too tough, so he is lifeless to keep him from getting regen. I think he will still get hps back from his life drain attack. I do know pretenders that are lifeless gain hps with the alt 5 drain life spell. Testing will reveal if he is balanced.

[DrPraetorious]

If Li Bo isn't powerful enough for people's tastes, you could give him death as well as fire.

This would enable him to make a skull of fire, and then (with a ring of wizardry), staves of the elements and other fire boost items.

An extra earth he doesn't need, I don't think.

[Xietor]

If anything Dr. I will give him his wings back. I hated to clip them, but i had a great fear of a flying immortal that could cast rain of stones multiple times on an invading army.

OT-did i paint a sympathetic enough plight for my race to receive departing gifts of gems and items?

[Xietor]

Any powers that be know why revig does not work when i tried to give it to an epic hero. I ended up just lowering the enc to achieve a similar effect.

The Elephantarch, modeled on Hannibal, is known for his stamina and forced marches. So i was going to give him revig., but it did not function.

So i ended up giving him enc 0, which makes him brutal on that darn elephant(possibly overpowered). So he tramples to his heart's content, with no ench issues.

With his lowered prot though, it is risky to try and take a prov solo with him.

Even Beowulf, who i thought was a bit too tough, died rather quickly solo to a prov that had a few heavy calvary in it. Barbarian indies also seem to make short work of most of the melee heroes if they are solo.

[Xietor]

Hmm, far from being weak, this guy can melee with the best of them.

He has 60 hps, 16 prot, great str, att. He has a magic weapon. his def is average, but if you make him a prophet he is quite tough.

With water magic he can get quickness early, and with 3 earth he can benefit from alt spells that add to his prot. With a fire/earth magic combo, and a forge bonus, he could have a fire shield underwater.

And he does have fear. I tested him out of the gate as a prophet with a pretender that did not have 4 of any magic, and he took a province solo. he had 84 hps to start, and almost died, but he took it. So if he had a pretender with even 4 nature-look out.

[jutetrea]

ok, finally tried a real SP game. I'm liking the Ulm elite hero. His summons essentially save the day early game and I'm assuming (just got to const 4) that he'll make a good thug.

regarding the TC hero, I always get 2D minimum on my pretender just to get the ball rolling with a +D staff, then you have mentors. Usually get streams from hades eventually as well for larger forging. I guess the same argument could be had for 3E (trolls), and starting with 2E gives you boots without having to wait for random. Still thinking he could use 1 path boost.

I'll try the yeti out soon, generally not a huge fan of Caelum, but will try em.

[jutetrea]

Hmm, so he would be considered the melee/mage combo type? If so that works well considering most of the others are one or the other. I was mostly considering him as a stay back mage type and utility thereof. I rarely throw my high paths into melee.

[Xietor]

The Black Duke of Ulm comes equipped with good items. He is a master smith of great renown. His dark lance is bonus, so it will not disappear when you give him a weapon. But he starts out with a sword of sharpness, which is a pretty good weapon for him.

The Black Order Soldiers are beasts. Black Company revisited.
Their only real weakness is no shield, so they suffer greatly from ap weapons.

[llamabeast]

Again just passing through - I wouldn't give the elephantarch encumbrance 0, since enc 0 is a special number such that they never get encumbered, even if you put armour etc on them. Give him enc 1 perhaps, if you want the elephant to be and exceptionally high stamina elephant.

[Xietor]

Good idea Llama. I will give elephatarch enc 1.

[jutetrea]

ok, I retract my statements on the yeti http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Me like. Do have questions, why the slot reduction and why wingless?

I'm assuming wingless because Caelum is considered a good quality MA nation? Unfamiliar with the power rankings in MA.
Would it be unbalancing to change it to a mix of infantry and archers? I see that its in his description, but even a weak flyer might be good. Custom troop? Weakest flyers, but with awe +0 (radiant with their worship) or since there are so many other sacred summons, maybe a very weak sacred flyer? (maybe weaker then fanatics?)

[Xietor]

I actually changed it before you posted. My changes for 1.1 are back on page 7 which i continue to edit and update.

Because wingless make no sense for a wild creature like a yeti, i gave him 1 winter wolf a turn instead of 3 wingless
as a make monster ability.

He has slot reductions because without them he would be overpowered. And it is not like the Yeti Claws are bad weapons. They are magic, att 5, and ap. and he has a high natural protection. to let him add armor on top of that would be unbalancing.

[Tyrian]

There are some problems with the latest version of the mod. Many files are missing (the *.tga of many heroes like the t'ien chi heroe or the abyssia hero). There is no problems for someone who download version after version, but the mod is useless for a new user.

[Endoperez]

Good work with this! Nice to see that your idea got off the ground. I don't think I have time to even check out all these heroes ATM, but it sounds like you're doing great.

[Xietor]

"There are some problems with the latest version of the mod. Many files are missing (the *.tga of many heroes like the t'ien chi heroe or the abyssia hero). There is no problems for someone who download version after version, but the mod is useless for a new user."

That is strange(: I wonder if it is because of the problem posting attahcments. On my computer the files are all organized correctly. Let me explore this a bit.

I have not touched the tga file of the Black Phoenix ion ages.

[Xietor]

I just deleted the mod from my computer and reloaded my newest version of it from the attachment. It works fine.

You do have to drag the files out of the folder. Not sure why this occurs. But you need to open the Epic Heroes Folder in your mod directory and drag out the 2 files that are inside the folder.

[Xietor]

Note:

When you extract the files to the mod folder you will have 1 yellow folder named Epic Heroes Mod. That file had to be opened and the 2 files inside it manually drug out of the folder. That would be the DM file and another yellow folder
named ehspr(contains the sprites).

Some kind person may want to tell me how to zip the mod and attach it so that only the 2 files extract to the mod folder, thereby saving people the manual dragging of files step.

As to the updated version:

. Black Heart Treant-
a. descr is improved
b. added 1n and 1e.

2. Tithe Collector
a. itemslot issue fixed(he had 2 heads 3 misc)
In 1.1 he will have 1 head and 2 misc. I did catch this myself, but how i missed it when i did a preview of all 22 heroes is puzzling.
b. minor typo corrected

3. Ancient Ophidian-descr tweaked, typo corrected.

4. Sacred Yeti-

a.precision increased.

b. makemonster ability changed from 3 wingless to 1 winter wolf.

c. Magicleader added(so he can lead his winter wolves)

d. bite replaced by Yeti Slam

d. descr tweaked

5. Grand Elephantarch:

a. Elephant Barding's prot lowered, so his starting prot is now 15.

b. His make unit ability changed from 2 heart companions to 2 hoplites.

c. Elephantarch enc raised from 0 to 1.

6.Black Phoenix-fire imps come to him now in great numbers.

7. Blood Jarl-

a. ice imps now radiate cold(even though fire imps do not radiate fire), and they have ice prot(stronger in cold weaker in hot climates).

b. Blood Jarl lost his free blood slave a turn abilty.

[jutetrea]

like the changes, bummer about the +1 BS/turn loss for the jarl.

To make a zip file where unzipping will just result in the two files... select the .dm file and the sprite folder and then make a zip. When unzipping they have to "unzip to here" vs. unzip and create a folder name "xxx" where xxx is the name of the zip file.

If this isn't done they don't even see the mod in the preferences area and should know to look for it.

[Xietor]

Well the blood jarl has a special coded ability that allows him to effectively hunt blood slaves. Send him out to a prov with 5000 people in it and let him hunt. He is, after all, a Blood Jarl-an expert at finding blood slaves.

[Xietor]

I am going to post a picture or 2 of the various new monsters/heroes for those who have not downloaded the mod.
This is a croaker, summoned by the Ctis Epic hero(sprite by Amos)


http://img57.imageshack.us/img57/2920/croakercp1.th.jpg (http://img57.imageshack.us/my.php?image=croakercp1.jpg)

[Xietor]

This is the Epic Hero for Abysia, sprite done by Endoperez:


http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/1623/blackphoenixzq3.th.jpg (http://img405.imageshack.us/my.php?image=blackphoenixzq3.jpg)

[Xietor]

And here is the Epic Hero For Machaka. Interesting storyline,
and the Backstab ability!

http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/7632/immortalassassinal4.th.jpg (http://img235.imageshack.us/my.php?image=immortalassassinal4.jpg)

[Xietor]

Here is the Blood Jarl:

http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/416/bloodjarlrn3.th.jpg (http://img181.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bloodjarlrn3.jpg)

[Tyrian]

I cann't test now, but a friend have this problem yesterday. The game quit whith an error message about file missing. A problem whith capital letters in file name is possible?

[Xietor]

Tyrian-let me know if you are having issues with 1.1. Version 1.0 that you reported was having issues, I downloaded into my mod folder after deleting all epic heroes files and it worked fine.

I use the new version(1.1) many times a day and have had no issues with it.

[Tyrian]

I try it when I can http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif. Thanks for your effort and this mod.

[Xietor]

Here is the Tithe Collector. If you know what a heretic's fork is without having to goggle it, then you may be a bit weird!


http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/2825/tithecollectorrv3.th.jpg (http://img237.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tithecollectorrv3.jpg)

[Foodstamp]

Xietor said:
Here is the Tithe Collector. If you know what a heretic's fork is without having to goggle it, then you may be a bit weird!


http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/6954/tithecollectorrg1.th.jpg (http://img407.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tithecollectorrg1.jpg)



It can't be as horrible as the diabolical pear.

[llamabeast]

Tyrian, are you using Linux?

Xietor, there's an issue with using mods on linux where the capitalisation of the sprite names has to be exactly right for them to work correctly. Many of the mods in this forum (probably most, in fact) have this issue, and I imagine it's a pain to fix in Windows because you don't get any error messages.

[Tyrian]

Not my computer game, and not my friend who have the problems. It is strange. This problem occured one time for me, but a more recent version loading corrected this.

[Xietor]

One of the best descr. and ideas in the Epic Heroes Mod was contributed by Endoperez. The Obsidian Medium:

http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/3826/obsidianmediumck8.th.jpg (http://img112.imageshack.us/my.php?image=obsidianmediumck8.jpg)

[DrPraetorious]

The MA Ermor hero strikes me as somewhat underpowered - although still nice to have. I like his schtick.

Since he's an Angel, maybe he should fire and air as well as death and astral? Since he's an angel of death now, maybe stealth and assassinate?

[Xietor]

Ermor is very powerful as is, and perhaps I was too cautious in making its hero. I added 3 hps, 1 att, a crown, robe, and 3 fire. And corrected a typo in its descr.

Version 1.2 will add these, and will be the version we use for the mp game.

[Xietor]

Also in version 1.2, which will be used for the upcoming mp game, I have decided to make all mortal epic heroes have recuperation(ability to self heal their own afflictions).

While this may reward those who take rash risks with their epic heroes, the intent when i added this feature across the board is not to deprive any race of their epic hero due to bad luck.

Sometimes your troops wander into a province that spreads disease. Say your epic hero gets diseased early in the game. He is dead. Say one of the evil air races does seeking arrow to your caster epic hero-5 enc wound.

Recuperation is a very powerful ability, but given the uniqueness and importance of the epic hero, i think the ability is warranted. While your pretender may have afflictions he cannot get rid of, nothing short of death will be able to cripple your epic hero.

[Xietor]

The board is not letting me attach the newest version. Gandalf, however, being a kind soul is going to host it.

OK it can be downloaded at
http://www.dom3minions.com/temp/EHM%201.2.zip

The Shin. Epic Hero got a major boost, as he can now stealth, spy, and assassinate. The Ancient Master also got forest and mountain survival, as did the Black Duke of Ulm. Both of these heroes also got a resist bonus.

If the Ancient Master is a ninja, it did not make sense that he could not stealth and assassinate. And if he has animal awe, and calls animals to fight for him, it makes sense he has forest survival. And, since he resides on Mount Shin., it also makes sense that he has mountain survival.

[Xietor]

I am recruiting now for a mp game. See the details on the multiplayer forum, as well as the map and EH Mod 1.2 download links.

[Turin]

I usually focus on the aspects I don´t like when giving feedback, so if I come across as too harsh, please keep this in mind. Overall it´s a great mod and highly recommended for SP.

So here is the feedback in nation order:

Arco:
The elephant hero seems fine mostly, but 18 MR is over the top, that´s something only the very best archmages have and a big part of the unit is an animal, which always have low MR. In addition I´d reduce his MR to 18, so he can keep formation with normal elephant units.

Ermor: The description is a bit weird: what are the unintended effects? And recuperation and misshapen don´t really fit together.

Pythium: Nothing to critize.
Man: nothing to critize
Ulm: Cool hero, but the death magic is weird. In addition I´d give him a regular lance, since the lance in the picture isn´t black and you don´t have to use the weird ambidextrous 8. I´d also give him the regular black steel plate, since a prot 22 0 def 0 enc plate really doesn´t fit into the dom3 world. And where does teh poison and fire resistance come from?
Marignon: Misses the head slot, since he doesn´t wear armor you could give him mapmove 3
Mictlan: I´d lose the bow, since he doesn´t have on in the picture and it doesn´t really fit to a jaguar. The awe effect doesn´t really fit the unit as well.
Tien´chi: Holy mother of overpoweredness, this guy puts any rainbow pretender to shame. You could maybe keep the powerlevel if you make him immobile and give him a research malus. But a combined total of 16 magiclevels( a standard high mage type unit gets 5 and the best base game heroes get 12) 4 holy + immortality make him one of the most powerful units, if not the most powerful in the game.
Machaka: Why is he ethereal and doesn´t need his eyes? Powerlevelwise he is fine compared to the other heroes, but some backstory explanation would be nice.
Argatha: Maybe add a research bonus? would fit with the sage theme of the statue.
Abysia: awesome!
Caelum: Very cool, typo in the mod file though stealth should be stealthy and shouldn´t he get the animal tag?
Atlantis: Death magic doesn´t really make sense to be forbidden in r´lyeh, since the starspawns get it as randoms, blood magic would be a lot more fitting. I´d also remove the wraith sword since it´s not shown in the pic. His ethearelness is questionable too.

That´s it for now, haven´t played with them yet, so no comment on the attack sprites and detailed powerlevels.

[jutetrea]

Just wanted to add to the comments a bit.

Played 1 SP game so far with MA Mict - the nation really is boring. The hero on the other hand kicked serious butt. Possibly almost too much. I finally lost him to a 3-in-a-row smite. This was after solo-ing about 8 provinces though with nary a scratch (1 affliction, recup'd).

The bow is nice, I'd rather not see it leave but possibly something similar yet a bit more thematic? Toned down version of storm of thorns? I'm good with the awe as well.
Possibly jack the hp's a bit and drop the protection to 18-20? That starting 23(?) protection is pretty tough. Although the lowish HP + high prot works well - good for indys, scarier vs nations.

The summons were strangely underwhelming compared to his solo power, but that's to be expected. It was useful for sitting on top of a castle and bringing in allies to actually siege it.

Going to try him as a prophet and see how it effects him. Will his claws be affected by an F9 bless?

All in all he made what seems to be a pretty boring nation pretty fun. Never played Mictlan, but the lack of blood was still wierd..especially with the national blood spells just sitting there.

[DrPraetorious]

Li Bo does put out a tremendous heap of research - but he mostly has paths you get on your mages anyway, and MA T'ien Ch'i would not be inclined to take a rainbow pretender for that reason. He's got a lot of *total* picks, but not a single 4, and the only magic diversity he adds is fire.

If he had 4F3E3D he'd be much more powerful even though he had six fewer magic picks.

MA T'ien Ch'i is also generally regarded as something of a weak position, so it "deserves" a strong hero. So if all he does is crank out science, I think that's fair.

That said, he could easily lose the crazy weaponry, which I didn't put on him. With that armament you can use him as a SC leader on turn 2 to take provinces.

[Xietor]

Good comments. I really appreciate the in depth comments Turin. I really do. And they are all accurate, though i will
not make all of the changes.

The hero for Arcos will have a high mr. As do all of the heroes. I know elephants have low mr, but he is just riding the beast. If it dies he will ride another. He has better moves than most elephants because that is consistent with his descr. An added bonus is it allows him to fire his 3 crossbows, then still catch up with the pack to attack!

Ermor-the unintended effect is he does not look like an angel! He is a sad sight compared to an angel. He is small and shrunken. His radiant aura is gone! Air Magic? Gone!

As to the recuperation, I decided that all epic heroes that are not immortal get that ability. Arcos. does not, but he has priestesses that can heal his afflictions. Thematic or not, I made the decision that we will not have crippled Epic Heroes.

"Machaka: Why is he ethereal and doesn´t need his eyes? Powerlevelwise he is fine compared to the other heroes, but some backstory explanation would be nice."

He does not need eyes because he has acute night vision being an assassin trained by black sorcerors. The best magical assassins do not need flashlights! He is ethereal
because many dom III assassins are ethereal AND his skin was burned away and reformed thousands of times, making it less substantive.

"Argatha: Maybe add a research bonus? would fit with the sage theme of the statue." Agreed and done.

"Abysia: awesome!" Thank you.


"Caelum: Very cool, typo in the mod file though stealth should be stealthy and shouldn´t he get the animal tag?"
yes and yes.


"Atlantis: Death magic doesn´t really make sense to be forbidden in r´lyeh, since the starspawns get it as randoms, blood magic would be a lot more fitting. I´d also remove the wraith sword since it´s not shown in the pic. His etherealness's is questionable too."

You cannot show everything in his picture. Just because you do not see a wraith sword, does not mean he does not own one. And the fact that starspawns do death magic makes his death magic more thematic then blood. It is more natural for a starspawn to have death magic. The descr says he was banned for casting spells even the rlyeh forbid. Just because the rlyeh have limited death magic, does not mean they are open to all of its potential uses. He was not outcast for knowing death magic, but putting it to forbidden uses.

Atlantis is another of those "weaker" races, and that is why he is ethereal. It is not that big a deal, as he has astral magic and can cast it anyway. Maybe he found a way to keep it up permanently.

I renamed Ulm's lance and removed his poison resist. He has death magic because of his dark past that is hinted at in his descr. He has partial fire resist because he is a master smith and works around forges a lot.

I added a more thematic ranged attack for the Blood-Cursed Champion.

Tien Chi's weapons/armor were removed. We are getting ready to play a mp game, and the good Dr. is playing Tien Chi. So we can get a better idea of his abilities in a mp setting soon.

Marignon slots fixed, and he was given the 3 map moves.

[Turin]

You are forgetting nature 3, which you can´t get and which is a huge jump in power because it lets you access gift of health and mother oak with boosters.
Also air 3 which is very important considering it lets you forge boosters. You can get it from CMs, but the chances are only one in 160.
Additionally he gets earth 2, CMs only get earth one and earth 2 is another milestone for earth boosters.
Well and s3 as well, which is another 1 in 160 chance.

So maybe he doesn´t add a lot of diversity, but he significantly increases the maximum realistically attainable magic level of Tien´chi in 5 paths right from the start of the game. If he lost one in every magic path he would be comparable to the worthy heroes version of tien´chi´s heroes. And those are generally considered to be among the best heroes in the game.

[DrPraetorious]

I certainly wouldn't argue that Li Bo is useless. HOWEVER, if you were to take away his +1 on all paths, he'd be an EA celestial master. That's quite nice to have but hardly epic.

If you gave this guy to MA Ermor I agree, he'd be completely frickin' nuts

Put another way - most of the epic heroes are inferior pretenders. Some of them are inferior SC pretenders, some of them are inferior magic-diversity pretenders, and some of them mainly spawn troops (which more pretenders should do, IMO, some of them can but it's pretty useless.)

Li Bo, on the other hand, is an inferior rainbow pretender. If you think rainbow pretenders are backflips of better than SC or magic diversity pretenders, yeah, he's unbalanced. Otherwise he's not.

[Turin]

Ok if EA Celestial masters get a total of 10 magic picks you are right, but last I checked they get only 7 to 8, aren´t immortal and are old.

As for inferior rainbow pretender, creating him with a the cheapest rainbow chassis for the paths he has would be the frost father, which costs 255 points. Add at least another 100 for immortality, the holy levels, blessability and the low dominion a standard rainbow brings. I don´t think inferior applies here. Are any of the other heroes worth even close to 350 design points?

[DrPraetorious]

Let's compare him to the Abductor that EA Niefelheim gets in the basic game (who is also a sacred priest, so that's a wash.)

To get WWWDDDAAA off of a destroyer of worlds (a roughly equivalent chassis, and the only giant IIRC that starts with two of WDA) costs 247 points.

I think you greatly overestimate immortality - if you really think that's worth as much as 6 magic picks, strip the immortality off, but on a unit that can't actually fight, it's only a big deal because of the recuperation, and *all* the heroes get that. Also, rainbow pretenders are penalized for their flexibility by lowering their starting dom - and since Li Bo *doesn't* take paths which T'ien Ch'i doesn't already get (except for two fire) it's really unfair to penalize him in that respect.

If you really must give him fewer magic picks, give him magic picks in other categories instead of what he gets now, otherwise he's just a researcher.

Totally design points, by the way, is a much better comparison than totalling picks since, as has been pointed out, more picks in one category is generally better (up to a point) than a few picks in many categories.

[Turin]

Edit: Just noticed that Xietor has toned the tien´chi hero down reasonably, so the stuff below doesn´t really apply anymore. I´ll leave it here, because it´s fun arguing with Dr. Praet.


Umm why not use the Son of Niefel, which is actually a far better chassis than the hero in question, costs only 213 points, spawns units and has one point higher dominion than a rainbow chassis.
Considering that the abductor is probably the best hero in the base game that should tell you something about li bo.

And immortality on a high level mage hero with access to teleport spells is incredibly useful for suicide tactics like porting, summon earth power and casting rain of stones. Later on you can use him as a wrathful skies caster together with a retreating staff of storm wielder and the only thing you risk is an air booster.
He also is the bane of any SC, you can simply teleport in and then try to charm/curse/horrormark with no risk at all.

The immortality gets even better when you consider that you can easily take a high dom thug pretender, since libo covers virtually all your magic needs with the exception of death magic.

In addition Li bo gives you easy access to the following important globals, items and spells which tien´chi usually doesn´t get/would need to design a pretender for:
Mother oak
gift of health
flaming arrows
dwarven hammers
air boosters
earth boosters
treelords staff
gaia´s blessing
golem construction
army of gold

etc

[DrPraetorious]

You greatly overestimate the importance of the nature - you can summon that off of a Naiad at conjuration 5, not exactly science fiction level stuff. Those combat spells (of which you forgot arrow fend) can be cast pretty easily through a communion (except gaia's blessing) - one of the few things MA T'ien Ch'i actually can do well is build communion matrices.

Yeah, he enables MA T'ien Ch'i to cast somecool stuff which it can't otherwise do. The real question is: why can't MA T'ien Ch'i do any cool stuff?

Is it because it's a MA nation that only gets one 3, and that's in water which is easy to boost? All you've done is drive home the point that MA T'ien Ch'i can get a really good hero without unbalancing anything.

If you were concerned about his total points cost or total number of picks, you could pull off an air, drop the water entirely and he'd be much cheaper, no less powerful, but less thematic. He's a master of the way, he has to have water magic even though you don't even want it. Likewise the nature; that's more useful than the water but still hardly where you'd invest points if you were designing a T'ien Ch'i pretender. It's a small research bonus mainly included for thematic purposes, which is also why he's immortal.

[Endoperez]

How big of a research bonus did you give the Medium, Xietor? I'd like to keep my version on line with yours. Also, have you changed Monkey King any further? I didn't notice anything on that.

[Xietor]

I did not touch the monkey king, and the research bonus was a modest "researchbonus 5"

[Horst F. JENS]

Question about Man's Hero (Beowulf) summoned Allies, the Geata Stoneguards:
Those thoug guys carry a throwing axe, a shield AND a battleaxe (dam 9, length 3) into combat. Is a battleaxe with those stats not a 2-handed weapon ?
I suggest removing the shield, (or replacing it with an buckler) or giving the stoneguards a shorter weapon instead of the battleaxe.

[Xietor]

Good point on the battleaxe.

While i am not an expert on weapons from the middle ages, the fact they can wield a longer weapon in one hand is an attestment to their combat skill and strength.

I know the normal 1h weapon is length 2, and the battleaxe is length 3, and the longer weapons 4,5 , and 6.

It was not an oversight on my part, as it is specifically mentioned in their descr. that they can wield a large battleaxe in one hand. They are a hardy race of warriors, and the stoneguard are the elite of that warlike race.

I envision the throwing axes being carried in belt loops, not in their hands while traveling. And in battle, I think the battleaxe would be carried in the offhand, shield slung on their back, and throwing axe in their main hand.

In the end, it is a fantasy game, and i would not try and get too realistic.

I played defensive end in college. In my 20's(i am now old) I benched well over 400 pounds. If you put my stats on a DnD stat sheet, the str, size etc would be much greater than your average guy who never trained with weights, and was not 6'2 230 lbs. And I was not the biggest and strongest
athlete. Pro football players are commonly 6'6 350 lbs.

Many of your bigger football players are twice as strong as the average guy. In the days when the biggest and strongest guys were warriors, I do not think it is a stretch that they could carry and effectively wield a battleaxe in 1 hand that the average guy needed 2 hands to swing. Especially a length 3 weapon, where weight, not length would be the crucial factor.

[Horst F. JENS]

So it seem you just invented the Bastard Battleaxe (TM) some ~700 years too late ;-P

[Edi]

I wouldn't worry about the handedness too much. The Abysian Warmaster (prophetized Warlord) wields twin battleaxes and war shamblers and mournful use a glaive AND a shield, even though a glaive is a two-handed weapon.

[Xietor]

Exactly Edi.

I am not having them dual wield 2 long weapons. A battle axe to a big strong man may handle the same as a broad sword to a smaller man. Exactly the same.

Of course if you feel guilty using the tough bastards, especially if you are at war with the peace dwelling forest people, feel free to have Beowulf not summon any of them!

[Horst F. JENS]

Actually, i built all of my strategys around turning Beowulf into an summoning factory and conquering the world with Longbowmen and Geata Stoneguards.

Those flying throwing axes are my favorite sight. Have to try them out with wind guide...

[Xietor]

Version 1.4 is in the works.

More improvements to the descr. and some tweaks/bug fixes

1. Ctis and Pangaea getting 3rd misc slot

2. Pangaea getting poisonres 100(oversight)

3. humans that have night vision will have the appropriate "dark vision" tag rather than blind. Treants, starspawn etc, will continue to be blind

4. Vanheim hero, besides getting a cute "Red Pointy Hat"
and a "Ceremonial Robe" will also get 2a to go with the 2e 2n.

Additionally the Forest survival and 25 stealth that disappeared with the dark vision copystats fix, will be back, as well as his illusion. This will make the gnome the most stealthy unit in the game.

Clockworks will come in greater numbers.

Lastly, he will get a Tinker's Hammer(forge bonus).

The cute little gnome will continue to have only 6 hps, but his utility is unmatched.


5. Elephantarch of Arcos grand Elephants will have their size corrected to 6.

6 Ctis-major changes. While she loses spy/assassinate, she is tougher in melee, and her precision with her special poison spit attack is lethal.

Her Croaker dominion summons loses 1 set of sleeping vines arracks, and has another replaced with something less lethal. So the Croaker only has 2 attacks now, one of which remains sleeping vines. Att skill also lowered to 10.

7. Ancient Master loses his dominion summon, but had his makemonster ability increased from 3 to 5. He also gets Darkvision 100, and a few slight combat boosts.

8. Tien Chi's hero will undergo some more changes, but they are still pending, as input from the good Dr. and the Epic Heroes mp game provides information about balance.

9. ulm-the Black order soldier summons has been reduced from 4 to 3, they got 1 enc added to their stats, and 2 enc and -2 defense was added to the black duke's plate.

A mp game using Epic Heroes is starting, and when it is complete, 1.5 will likely have more fine tuning based on gameplay.

[Xietor]

Epic Heroes Mod 1.4 can be downloaded here:

http://www.mediafire.com/?e99ud3xxhng

A good many changes were made, both for polish, with the descriptions, and new armor and weapons, and for balance. The changes were made after more gameplay, and from suggestions from players that have used the mod.

A complete list of the changes will follow, but the short of it is this:

1. Heroes that had limited slots, like the Treants, Ancient ophidian, Black Phoenix got a 3rd misc slot.

2. Tein Chi's hero, created and monitored by Dr. P, was changed again at his suggestion. Less of a rainbow now, but more power in particular paths.

3. Black Phoenix received an additional fire magic, and fire imps come in greater numbers.

4. Sacred Yeti lost its stealth, and the aoe fear from its Yeti Slam. Testing showed that the yeti's high base fear, combined with a aoe fear attack, was overpowering.

The Yeti's makemonster was increased from 1 to 2(winter wolves).

5. The Tithe Collector received some armor

6. Mad Tinker received 2a, forge ability, awesome weapon and thematic armor(pointy red hat and elememental robe).
The tinker's inadvertent loss of illusion, stealth, and forest survival was restored. Mad Tinker now has 8 hps!

7. All units that should have dark vision have that now rather than blind. There are issues modding dark vision, which was what caused the oversight with the mad tinker's stats.

8. The Black Duke's armor now has enc and def penalties, reflecting the fact that it is plate, regardless of how well it was crafted. The black duke can only train 3 rahter than 4 black order soldiers per turn.

9. Pythium's angel has 3a now. This was from popular demand, and i remain convinced pythium is an over powered race that deserves a 6 hp gnome, but i was influenced by peer pressure.

10. Ancient Master lost his dominion summons, but can make 5 lions a turn now instead of 3. He regenerates now, and received some combat tweaks(made slightly tougher). He also has 100 percent dark vision.

11. mr was lowered on some heroes slightly, from 18 to 16.

12. Arcos summoned elephants are now size 6, and their attack was lowered.

13. water races remained unchanged, as did agartha, bandar log, machaka, man, jotunheim, eriu, and ermor.

14. Ctis hero's precision was boosted a good bit, making her ranged attack quite lethal. Her combat abilities were tweaked slightly upward, but she cannot spy or assassinate now. Her dominion summon "Croaker" now has 1 rather than 3 sleep vines, but it did get a 2nd useful melee attack.

[Xietor]

After playing Shin. a lot the past few days, I decided to give the Ancient Master the ability to make one of these thematic Japanese Mythical Lions each turn. Obviously the Ancient Master has other needs for his time, but if he is ever in desperate need, he can sit in a province and use a "summon allies" command to get 1 of these per turn:

http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/3268/shishivs6.th.jpg (http://img66.imageshack.us/my.php?image=shishivs6.jpg)


These will only be available when version 1.5 comes out, which is not for a couple weeks at earliest. For the curious, it is a berserk 1 skill. Originally I had the Ancient Master making 2 of these per turn, hence the description they always come in pairs, but they are too tough to allow 2 per turn-even with Shin. who is not one of the top end Mp races.

[Sieger]

This is a great mod. I've only extensively played the R'lyeh, Jotunheim, and Ulm epic heroes but all three of them are very power and appropriate to their nation.

The R'lyeh hero I think is more powerful than some might realize, he's a pretty brutal assassin, and with his enslave mind ability and overall toughness most commanders will be in bad shape against him, even with body guards (who are often turned against the commander they are protecting!)

[Xietor]

Coming in version 1.5:

Pythium: Fallen Angel size increased from 2 to 4.

Shinuyama:

I feel my knowledge of Shinuyama has increased a ton since I first made the Ancient Master. For mp purposes, I find Shinuyama's situation similar to Machaka, with a vulnerability to a dominion 10 wyrm bum rush, or aggressive expansion from races with low resource highly blessed troops. To alleviate this disparity:

Ancient Master is getting a hp boost from 18 to 27,
100 percent shock resistance, whirling fists are getting improved(defensive), Amphibian(to reflect a monk's total body control and ability to hold breath a very long time. In Dungeons and Dragons they were immune to asphyxiation, immune to mind control spells, and took 1/2 damage from spells.

Ancient Master is not getting any resistance to fire or cold, but he is getting shock res. Shock resist, high mr, and increase in hps from 18 to 27 should prevent him from getting 1 shotted by a level 3 priest casting smite-which is what happens currently.

In fact the Ancient Master is getting an insanely high MR of 40, yes 40, to reflect that he is immune to mind control spells. Unfortunately there is no way to mod immunity from mind control, so i will achieve the same affect with the off the chart mr. This will also have the intended effect of making him immune to mind hunts.

He only has 27 hps, so he is still vulnerable to numerous methods of death, but he will not be subjected to smite, mind hunt, enslave mind, charm, or lightning based attacks.

Gift from heaven, incinerate, frozen heart, trample, wind ride, and skelly spam are all obvious ways to kill him.

The makemonster ability of a Shishi, though only at a rate of 1 per turn, gives shin some necessary tough units early on that can face a hydra, vans etc. Though they fare poorly in tests against size 6 tramplers.

It is hard to believe Shin has no unit that has a shield(:, no cavalry, no sacred units, and national summons that are really nothing special until conj 8. Their best mage has severe old age.

They do get a tough longbow unit, but at 38 resources a pop, you cannot amass enough of them early to fight off an early blitz.

Kappas get fatigued too fast, and have no shield. Adding a shield and give them a normal fatigue, and you may have something. Make them capital only.

Shin. pd post 20 is nice, and that is a strong point. Good research is another strength. But those strengths do not help early.

So shin. is getting a boost to its epic hero, and Shishi, though few in number, will give pause to all but elephant and mammoth races.

Maragon:

One of the 4 races I unfairly penalized(vanheim, pythium and ermor are the other 3) with less than epic heroes because i felt they were too tough already in mp. This issue was discussed, and I have since been convinced I erred in not giving every race a truly Epic Hero. It is not the goal of this mod to balance the races through epic heroes. Vanheim and Pythium were boosted in 1.4 as those races were to be used in the Epic Hero MP game.

Marignon's Tithe Collector is becoming an Epic Hero. His priestly skills were reinstated, he was given 2 air magic, armor, and some extra hps. He can now melee a bit. Since he received major boosts in melee ability his awe was removed.

A tithe collector is feared, not held in awe. And he would have been overpowered with his melee boosts, priest boosts, 2a boost, if he had the double whammy of awe and fear.

Here is 1.5 version of the Tithe Collector:

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/2825/tithecollectorrv3.th.jpg (http://img237.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tithecollectorrv3.jpg)

Ulm: Black Duke of Ulm's makemonster ability of Black Order Soldiers reduced to 2 per turn.

Ermor will receive an entirely new Epic hero., the Angel of Death, whose screenshot is 2 posts below.


Abysia Black Phoenix fire resistance increased to 200 percent. Some items make a unit susceptible to fire, and the thought of a Black Pheonix taking damage from fire is an alien concept, even with barkskin.

Black Phoenix prot increased from 3 to 8, and he was given a fireshield.

Atlantis- Early expansion and lack of ranged units on land plague Atlantis, thus a makemonster ability of 2 silver orangs was added. They are sacred, immune to cold, and are ok in water. More of a boon is they have a cold based ranged attack on land.

Atlantis leadership skills are boosted, and he loses his slow domsummon of a ghost-that is replaced with a silver orang.

Atlantis' Epic Hero now attracts skeletons in great numbers.

The Silver Orang is pictured here:

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/2969/silverorangwr4.th.jpg (http://img440.imageshack.us/my.php?image=silverorangwr4.jpg)



Rlyeh's epic hero is looking a bit too tough in the Epic Heroes MP game, and will be toned down a bit in a yet to be determined manner.

Very good feedback from the Epic Heroes MP game.

Machaka: The fear of the immortal assassin is overpowered. Instead of having to kill bodyguards, he injures 1 and the rest run. This ability was inadvertently added when i had to use the copystat command to add his dark vision.

Vanheim: the little gnome is being accused of being a sc

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/redface.gif. While I may not agree that an 8 hp epic hero makes a good sc, I did remove the aoe1 effect from the Tinker's Hammer. It does still have the 2ndary effect of small area fire damage. For crying out loud, he has 8 hps! Kill him already. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif


The Sacred Yeti: New Description and body slot added


http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/7796/sacredyetiww9.th.jpg (http://img253.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sacredyetiww9.jpg)

[Sombre]

I was just going to start doing the angel graphic you wanted for Ermor, when I noticed unit graphic 626 - fallen angel.

Isn't that basically what you wanted? You could just use that sprite.

[Xietor]

no, that is actually a caelum scarab sprite that i presently use for Ermor's misshapen Angel. If you load epic heroes and select ermor, you will see that sprite.

What I actually wanted was a size 4 undead angel, sort of like the sprite i sent you, but blacker and undead looking if that makes any sense.

[Sombre]

...?

Unit # 626 - fallen angel is size4. It isn't for Caelum. It looks like the angel you sent me, only black and with a burning green sword.

Try adding #addrecunit "fallen angel" to a nation and you'll see it.

[Xietor]

You are 100 percent correct on all accounts. I had the current version 1.4 mod set as my preferences, rather than the upcoming 1.5, so I was seeing the wrong sprite.

Out of curiosity, what nation uses the Fallen Angel? My original idea may once again be shot(:

[Xietor]

Epic Heroes 1.5 will have changes made with the benefit of much play testing in sp games, plus a big mp game involving 12 of the heroes. Changes that are planned thus far:


Pythium: Fallen Angel size increased from 2 to 4.

Shinuyama:

I feel my knowledge of Shinuyama has increased a ton since I first made the Ancient Master. For mp purposes, I find Shinuyama's situation similar to Machaka, with a vulnerability to a dominion 10 wyrm bum rush, or aggressive expansion from races with low resource highly blessed troops. To alleviate this disparity:

Ancient Master is getting a hp boost from 18 to 27,
100 percent shock resistance, whirling fists are getting improved(defensive), Amphibian(to reflect a monk's total body control and ability to hold breath a very long time. In Dungeons and Dragons they were immune to asphyxiation, immune to mind control spells, and took 1/2 damage from spells. Ancient Master will be losing his fear ability. With the boosts and summon, there is no justification for the fear/awe combo.

Ancient Master is not getting any resistance to fire or cold, but he is getting shock res. Shock resist, high mr, and increase in hps from 18 to 27 should prevent him from getting 1 shotted by a level 3 priest casting smite-which is what happens currently.

In fact the Ancient Master is getting an insanely high MR of 40, yes 40, to reflect that he is immune to mind control spells. Unfortunately there is no way to mod immunity from mind control, so i will achieve the same affect with the off the chart mr. This will also have the intended effect of making him immune to mind hunts.

He only has 27 hps, so he is still vulnerable to numerous methods of death, but he will not be subjected to smite, mind hunt, enslave mind, charm, or lightning based attacks.

Gift from heaven, incinerate, frozen heart, trample, wind ride, and skelly spam are all obvious ways to kill him.

The makemonster ability of a Shishi, though only at a rate of 1 per turn, gives shin some necessary tough units early on that can face a hydra, vans etc. Though they fare poorly in tests against size 6 tramplers.

It is hard to believe Shin has no unit that has a shield(:, no cavalry, no sacred units, and national summons that are really nothing special until conj 8. Their best mage has severe old age.

They do get a tough longbow unit, but at 38 resources a pop, you cannot amass enough of them early to fight off an early blitz.

Kappas get fatigued too fast, and have no shield. Adding a shield and give them a normal fatigue, and you may have something. Make them capital only.

Shin. pd post 20 is nice, and that is a strong point. Good research is another strength. But those strengths do not help early.

So shin. is getting a boost to its epic hero, and Shishi, though few in number, will give pause to all but elephant and mammoth races.

Maragon:

One of the 4 races I unfairly penalized(vanheim, pythium and ermor are the other 3) with less than epic heroes because i felt they were too tough already in mp. This issue was discussed, and I have since been convinced I erred in not giving every race a truly Epic Hero. It is not the goal of this mod to balance the races through epic heroes. Vanheim and Pythium were boosted in 1.4 as those races were to be used in the Epic Hero MP game.

Marignon's Tithe Collector is becoming an Epic Hero. His priestly skills were reinstated, he was given 2 air magic, armor, and some extra hps. He can now melee a bit. Since he received major boosts in melee ability his awe was removed.

A tithe collector is feared, not held in awe. And he would have been overpowered with his melee boosts, priest boosts, 2a boost, if he had the double whammy of awe and fear.

Here is 1.5 version of the Tithe Collector:

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/2825/tithecollectorrv3.th.jpg (http://img237.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tithecollectorrv3.jpg)



Ulm: Black Duke of Ulm's makemonster ability of Black Order Soldiers reduced to 2 per turn.

Ermor will receive an entirely new Epic hero., the Angel of Death, whose screenshot is 2 posts below.


Abysia Black Phoenix fire resistance increased to 200 percent. Some items make a unit susceptible to fire, and the thought of a Black Pheonix taking damage from fire is an alien concept, even with barkskin.

Black Phoenix prot increased from 3 to 8, and he was given a fireshield.

Atlantis- Early expansion and lack of ranged units on land plague Atlantis, thus a makemonster ability of 2 silver orangs was added. They are sacred, immune to cold, and are ok in water. More of a boon is they have a cold based ranged attack on land.

Atlantis leadership skills are boosted, and he loses his slow domsummon of a ghost-that is replaced with a silver orang.

Atlantis' Epic Hero now attracts skeletons in great numbers.

The Silver Orang is pictured here:

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/2969/silverorangwr4.th.jpg (http://img440.imageshack.us/my.php?image=silverorangwr4.jpg)



Very good feedback from the Epic Heroes MP game:


Rlyeh's epic hero

Loses fear,life drain, entanglement. As a slight positive to offset the losses, he is no longer susceptible to fire, and his stealth was increased from 25 to 35.


Machaka: The fear of the immortal assassin is overpowered. Instead of having to kill bodyguards, he injures 1 and the rest run. This ability was inadvertently added when i had to use the copystat command to add his dark vision.

Vanheim: the little gnome is being accused of being a sc

. While I may not agree that an 8 hp epic hero makes a good sc, I did remove the aoe1 effect from the Tinker's Hammer. It does still have the 2ndary effect of small area fire damage. For crying out loud, he has 8 hps! Kill him already.

Caelum: The Sacred Yeti gets a retooled descr and a body slot!

http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/7796/sacredyetiww9.th.jpg (http://img253.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sacredyetiww9.jpg)

Ermor's Epic Hero in 1.5(not coming soon):

http://img76.imageshack.us/img76/5945/angelofdeathjp9.th.jpg (http://img76.imageshack.us/my.php?image=angelofdeathjp9.jpg)

[Xietor]

I am bumping the thread, to answer questions about the changes in 1.5. The changes are listed in the above post. 1.5 will not be released until the completion of the epic heroes mp game.

[Horst F. JENS]

just lost the epic heroes test game, playing Man. I think that my hero (the guy who can summon axe-throwers) was not overpowered. I let him summon axe-throwers all the time, but it made no big impact against human players. The axe-throwers were fine against indys.

[Nikolai]

I think that this mod going into 'unreal' territory. This's pointless. Ancient master can wipe the floor with a NATION, you don't get it? Two level 0 rings, garanteed at turn 5, ancient master is immune to most everything, including many other Epic heroes. I need Gift of Heaven to kill him!? Other 'methods' you suggest are a joke - are worthless at construction 4, and little effective even before that.

Why don't you name mod Epic Heroes: Arena, and attach a map with one center and 17 capitals around?

[Xietor]

There is an actual game ongoing to test the balance of the various heroes. To my knowledge, none has had much of an impact.

The Ancient Master in 1.4, the mod's present version, can be killed by 2 smites.

Really the one who has had the biggest impact is Ryleh Epic Hero who can make laying siege under water a nightmare by assassinating underwater commanders. But with star child's magic duel and mind hunt combo, it is already painful to siege Rlyeh's capital.

But Rlyeh Epic Hero is being toned down a bit in the next version.

The game is now in the late stages and angels and tartarian gates rule the world, not epic heroes.

Nikolai-you do make a good point about the Ancient Master in 1.5. And he will likely not get the shock resist. He will be immune to spells that check mr though, such as mind hunt.
Monks are supposed to be immune to mind control spells. thematic. And at 27 hps, he will be easy enough to kill. Much easier than a 310 hp tartarian gate!

Rigor Mortis can kill all Epic Heroes that are not undead-and it is easy for most nations to cast. Drain life is not resistible. Life for a life.

At 27 hps an Epic Hero should not be able to kill a Nation, though, if the player has a good understanding of the game mechanics.

[Xietor]

I will respond to a pm.

Yes the Epic Heroes Mod does have a fundamental change on the game in some respects. It does allow for sleeping pretenders for races who otherwise would never dare take a sleeping or imprisoned pretender.

It does allow some races that are weak out of the gate a fighting chance to survive until mid game. But I do not view that as a bad thing.

So yes, it adds new options in strategy and gameplay for existing races.

[Xietor]

Epic Heroes Mod just finished a 12 person mp game.

Some tweaking will be done to the Epic Heroes Mod, and then there will be a Epic Heroes Mod II mp game for a final Heroes test before the final mod version is released.

Anyone that has any thoughts on the relative power of the Heroes, especially players in the game, this is your chance to have some input.

[DigitalSin]

Once you're done with the MA nations, do you think there'd be any chance of you making an epic heroes mod for EA or LA?

[DrPraetorious]

Sure. Here's an epic hero for LA Jomon.

#name "Senshi no Shin"
#descr "A void being from the distant future in the form of a young girl."
#size 1
#hp 35
#mr 20
#prot 9
#str 12
#att 14
#def 17
#mapmove 3
#ap 20
#magicbeing
#ethereal
#illusion
#holy
#fear 2
#awe 1
#weapon "Silence Glaive"
#armor "Sailor Fuku"
#magicskill 5 4
#magicskill 4 2
#magicskill 2 1
#magicskill 8 1
#end

[Xietor]

Epic Heroes version 1.5 released.

http://www.mediafire.com/?5qynuxwshci

[Daynarr]

This link appears to have problems. It will send you to mediafire properly but it won't start the download.

[Tichy]

Ah, so it's not just me.

[Xietor]

Not sure why it was not working but this link does.

http://www.mediafire.com/?5qynuxwshci