Rohan! version 1.02 (New Content, few bug fixes)

[Foodstamp]

ver 1.02

Been playing a lot of Middle Earth 3rd Age for Medieval 2 Total War, so I have tweaked this mod a bit to reflect some of the things I liked from that mod.

-Tweaked magic paths on Advisor

-Tweaked magic paths on Wise Woman

-Added Axeman

-Added Helminga (Capital Only)

-Fixed lingering issue with militia missing helmet, not sure how that escaped me.

-Riders of Rohan no longer have bows

-Added Skirmisher

-Linux Compatible (Casing)


ver 1.01 (hotfix)

-Weapon/armor bugs as a result of uploading incorrect version of the mod fixed.

-Typos in a few descriptions fixed

-All units who had "Light Lance" weapon now have "Lance" weapon. This fixes an issue where lances are considered ordinary weapons and not one time use weapons that receive charge bonuses.

-Precision on all mounted units except for priestess reduced to 9 or 8 depending on the training of the unit. This makes their archery capabilities on par with other mounted units in the game.

-King of Rohan now only has Castle Defense 25 instead of 32 which was an erroneous number due to the game reading the mod file wrong or not accepting a high value.





ver 1.00
Attached, is the first version of Rohan, an EA nation based on the nation of the same name from Lord of the Rings. I having taken care to keep the nation as close to the books/movies as possible, with very few liberties taken for balance purposes.

All the graphics are custom graphics I did by editing existing ingame graphics. I am very proud of the artwork I was able to do for this mod and the way it plays.

This nation is fairly balanced, a real powerhouse in the early game, but it's power wanes in the mid to late game. The AI plays this nation exceptionally well because the nation more or less is very straight forward.

Here is a list of the Pros and Cons of the nation

Pros:
Phenomenal Cavalry
Units rarely rout
Great protection
Mobility
Special starting commander

Cons:
Lacks high powered mages
Units are very resource intensive
Best units and mage are capital only
Average MR becomes an issue in the mid to late game

---------------------------------------------------

I love playing this nation while listening to the Rohan theme from Lord of the Rings. It is very fun to build massive amounts of Cavalry then charge into battle scattering the enemy. The fact that the King of Rohan starts off as a special commander that cannot be recruited if he falls in battle gives the unit more personality, I was actually sad when he accidentally stumbled upon Ink Pot End during one of my games, watching him gain afflictions over the months, who was going to be his heir? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

I hope you guys have as much fun with this mod as I do. Feel free to bump the age of this mod to MA or LA as you prefer, All my nations are EA because normally I play all my custom nations in my single player games.

I look forward to any feedback you may have to offer http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Teraswaerto]

Only taken a very brief look so far, but looks very cool. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif The idea of the King as starting commander is great. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

But, I have to ask, why EA? Rohan would seem to fit into MA far better from pretty much every angle I can think of.

[Foodstamp]

Aye it would definitely fit better in another era. Feel free to change it. I play all my custom nations in EA so I can play them in the same game.

To change the nation to another era, open the rohan.dm file with notepad, look for #era 1, change that to #era 2 (or 3) depending on the era you want to play the nation in.

That reminds me! This nation replaces MA Vanheim. Sorry I had to replace a nation, but I am up to 14 nations now, so I am having to eliminate existing ones http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif.

Enjoy http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[BandarLover]

DUUHN DUHN DUH-DUH-DUUHN!! It's more effective if you HEAR me trying to sing the LoTR theme...on second thought, no it's not.

Been playing a small game with this mod and Sombre's Arga Dis mod (will post my thoughts on that one later). Back to Rohan mod.

Excellent job on the graphics Foodstamp. You'd never know that this is your first real attempt at making your own graphics from scratch. Love the King unit as a starting commander.

I still don't really have thoughts on balance. I didn't notice anything being particularly overpowered or too expensive. Militia with some decent moral is nice. I think this is the first nation I've actually intentionally bought militia.

Great job, is what I'm driving at. Maybe some summons or other nation specific spells in a future release would help give it even more unique flavor.

Keep up the good work.

[Xietor]

I took a look at it briefly, and will give it more play after i finish epic heroes, but here are my thoughts:

Great Graphics, I love the nation flag above each province, and the units, especially the calvary which are the heart of the race.

Starting troops seem well above average, with tough calvary available from turn 1, and I have never seen a castle defense bonus of 37 before, but he is a king!

[Foodstamp]

From the horse's mouth (pardon the pun), "I KNOW HOW TO DEFEND MY OWN KEEP!" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

I am glad you guys are liking the mod. The nation is very powerful to begin with. When you start facing combat spells, things begin to get rough though. Size 3 with average MR really hurts these guys.

[Foodstamp]

I am noticing some more item issues that I think are a result of the last patch. Expect an update to this mod soon.

[Foodstamp]

The server is bugging out. I will attach the new version of this mod to the original post as soon as I am able.

Until then, you can download the file from...
Rohan 1.01 (http://files.filefront.com/rohan101.zip/;7465299;/fileinfo.html) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Cor]

Hey, I thought I had the 1.01 but apparently not. The king had a 37 siege bonus.

Good job. I like the king not being recruitable.
Great graphics. Not over powered. almost balanced w/ vinella. I would let someone play this in a MP without a second thought.

Changes I would suggest(but what do I know):

I think the wise women should have old age.

I think Rohan either needs a level 3 priest or a better magic user. Rohan is far too weak in the mid and late game without these. I suggest the preist then it could have a chance at a bless strat.

The starting troops are far better than average and need to be scaled down.

The militia is underpowered, I found that the indy light inf is supereior and come with javalins for the same cost.

Thanks for the mod!

[PvK]

Cor said:
...
The militia is underpowered, I found that the indy light inf is supereior and come with javalins for the same cost.
...

The "Rohan Militia" is neither like usual Dominions Militia, nor like the indy light infantry, but is very close to the Dominions indy heavy spear infantry, but with slightly better armor... EXCEPT that although their image shows a helmet, they don't have one in the data! Probably should add an Iron Cap.

[Foodstamp]

First of all let me say thank you for the feedback. I was pretty disheartened after creating this mod because no one was commenting on it. This mod took the most work artistically of any mod I have done to date and I was getting pretty discouraged, but two new replies, excellent http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I may consider changing the name of the Rohan Militia. I used that moniker not to compare them to the Dominions 3 independent version with the same name, but rather to reflect how they are referred to in books or write ups on rohan. Rohan never has a real standing army, they depend on militias during times of war.

The helmet is a great catch, this is the kind of feedback I love to get. They will definitely receive a helmet in a future incarnation of the mod.

The wise women are pretty old, what keeps them from getting the old age icon is that they normally get 1 to 2 nature picks randomly. Do you think I should bump their age up anyway? I can bump them up to where they are old enough not even nature magic can save them if you guys feel it would be more thematic. Currently I have her scripted for #older 30 which means she starts 30 years older than a standard mage with the same magic picks.

One of the things I was afraid of in this mod was not adding custom spells. Most new modded nations come with all the bells and whistles including modded spells but I could not think of anything thematic to go with Rohan. Lord of the Rings is such a low magic setting, it is hard to add anything magical without taking some creative liberties.

That being said, what do you guys think about a bump to priest levels (as Cor suggested) and some holy spells being added if I can find a way to add them and still maintain the Rohan feel of the nation?

[BandarLover]

I don't know that it is absolutely necessary to give Rohan a high priest unit. Several nations in game have no priests past lvl 1 so your prophet is the only high priest you get. Kailasa and Bandar Log being two examples I know of. Of course, high summons later negate that problem but it takes awhile. So I'll finish this thought by saying, do what YOU think is necessary. It is your mod after all. Everyone else is just giving you suggestions.

I'd been thinking about national spells for this mod as well. Everything I think of takes some stretching. Like a Summon Ent spell, meh? Maybe. Or something that calls the people of the hills, I forget what they are called (Blasphemy!! I know! Looks like it is time to start my annual 'Reading the Lord of the Rings books'.) Or perhaps a morale/defense boosting spell, to show how the Rohirrim rally in times of need.

I honestly don't know.

[Foodstamp]

You pretty much summed up the spell ideas I have gone through. I thought about having a Summon Huorn (spelling?) spell that summoned some Ent creatures to help Rohan, I base this off the part in the book where the Huorns decimate Isengard's army after they flee Helm's Deep.

I don't think the Hill People would fit at all, they were constantly warring Rohan even before the time period that is the setting for the LOTRs.

As far what I think is necessary. I have found it best to get as many opinions as possible when it comes to modding, then take those opinions and form my final course of action according to what I think after hearing those opinions. When I was working on Haida Gwaii my mod became better to me because people were able to provide different insights that in turn influenced my decisions in the mod to a better end.

On the other hand, I created a mod a long time ago for the original Age of Wonders. I called it the "Heavenly Ruleset" and I changed every version of it according to the opinions of the Heavens Games Community. I ended up hating the mod (I kept this to myself) and even refused to play it in SP or MP once it was finished, a shell of what I envisioned, all because I didn't take their opinions into consideration; Their opinions guided my modding completely.

[BandarLover]

That's cool...I meant it the way you worded it any way. Some people have good ideas and others not so good and using what is good is great (Did that sentence confuse anyone? It did me and I wrote it.) I didn't mean to suggest ignoring what they say and doing what you want, just that you ultimately have final say so.

I'ma gonna look at the Battle for Middle Earth games and see if I can't get some more ideas for you. They seemed to do a pretty good job of expanding on the nations. I do like the Summon Huoron though, great minds think alike?



Forget it, no ideas there at all. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Teraswaerto]

I'm not sure summoning Huorns or Ents really fits Rohan, they feared Fangorn and the trees.

Spell songs similar to those Man has would be more fitting, IMO.

You might include important characters from the history of Rohan as heroes, such as Helm Hammerhand and Eorl the Young. It would take some creative writing, but having more heroes would be great. I can take a crack at it if you don't mind.

[Cor]

Teraswaerto said:

Spell songs similar to those Man has would be more fitting, IMO.





Yeah, they were forever singing. I hate singing. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/firedevil.gif

[Teraswaerto]

Philistine.

[Cor]

Teraswaerto said:
Philistine.



Oh yes, and proud http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif.

[Foodstamp]

Teraswaerto said:
I'm not sure summoning Huorns or Ents really fits Rohan, they feared Fangorn and the trees.

Spell songs similar to those Man has would be more fitting, IMO.

You might include important characters from the history of Rohan as heroes, such as Helm Hammerhand and Eorl the Young. It would take some creative writing, but having more heroes would be great. I can take a crack at it if you don't mind.



I had considered both of them as heroes. The issue I had was that both were former kings of Rohan. So if you received them as heroes, you could potentially have 3 kings of rohan which seems odd thematically.

Maybe if they were presented in a way that made them more generic as heroes and in their descriptions they are not mentioned as kings?

[BandarLover]

If that is the case, then why not make Hama, and Eomer and Eowyn as heroes? I'm guessing you've prolly thought of this already. Oh yeah, and let's not forget Glamdring.

[PvK]

You could make three versions, one with the corresponding king in each era.

Foodstamp, I haven't had time to deeply study or playtest this yet, but it looks good, and is sort of my style, as I like trying to succeed with human troops.

[Teraswaerto]

You might have Eorl as the son of the king, and Helm as his uncle or brother, or rather heroes like them not but exactly them. Since it's not a total conversion with multiple LotR-nations and such, not tying the mod directly into any specific characters or time would be what I'd do.

Eowyn is the hero they currently have.

[BandarLover]

Ah...haven't gotten Eowyn yet or even checked the DM file to see what is in it. Perhaps I should do that more often so I don't sound like an idiot. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Foodstamp]

Teraswaerto, if you are interested in writing them up as heroes, I would be happy to add them. I can do the graphics if you like based on your descriptions, or you can do the graphics if you feel up to the task.

I think what I am going to do to round this mod out is give them spell songs (as suggested) based on holy magic, and I am going to bump up Eowyn's holy level.

Bandar, if you would like to write up one of your suggested heroes, I would be interested in adding one of them too. That will bring the total hero count to 5.

With 5 heroes, and holy songs, I think Rohan will have it's identity without moving too far away from the LOTR theme of the nation.

[BandarLover]

Which hero would you like a write up for? I only see Eowyn in the DM file, did you want me to write up of Eomer, Hama, and Glamdring as well? I could, not tonight but later.

[Foodstamp]

Choose one or two of those and write it up if you like. Do not give him an ability that would contradict his representation in LOTR. I can do the graphic (graphics) and I will give you credit in the mod for doing the hero (or Heroes) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Teraswaerto]

I'll see what I can come up with.

BandarLover,

Wasn't Glamdring Gandalf's sword?

[BandarLover]

You're right, what was that Rohan captain's name?

Ah Ha!! Gamling!! I knew it was something close to Glamdring. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[PvK]

Both names have a ring to them...

[Morkilus]

Can Shadowfax be a hero, too?

[sube]

A quick comment on res cost of mounted units: check the #ressize command in the mod manual, the way i understand it (also from some old threads) is that if you have a mounted unit you have to 1) use #ressize 2) give a basic #rcost higher than 1, like 10 or 20 or whatever (depending if it's light, medium, heavy cavalry). Probably it won't change much in the end, from a practical point of view, but apparently that's the intended way to mod cavalry.

Balance-wise, i find that cavalry units have way too high stats, way higher than human elites from other nations. No doubt they are tough guys, these rohirrim, nonetheless i was expecting something like str 11-12 and att/def 11-12, maybe a few less AP, which is the range for many human dom3 elites. But hey - that's just my personal perception of the book/movies. Ah and what about adding an extra cavalry unit with standard human stats (and, consequently, cheap)?

Few more comments before i have to rush back to work: 1) great graphics, 2) i'd give the archer "normal" stats, like 10 att and def rather than only 8, 3) any plan to mod other lord of the ring nations? Great job until now!

[Foodstamp]

Sube, I just wanted to address your balance concerns.

The sacred Royal Guards have stats comparable to Knights of Avalon, yet they do not get recuperation. The Royal Guards have slightly more hp, str and attack skill, the Knights of Avalon cost less gold, have superior magic resistance, forest survival, an alicorn (bonus magical attack) and better armor.

Considering all the options available to Man, I just can't accept that the Rohan Cavalry is out of balance when compared to other nations on a nation vs nation basis. If I were to nerf the cavalry, Rohan would not stand a chance at any phase of the game.

The AP is actually comparable to some of the higher powered horse units in the game. The reason I went with such a high AP is because of the description of the horses of Rohan being so superior in quality to other horses.

Rohan is all about cavalry, and lowering their stats at all makes Rohan all about nothing really.

Does anyone else feel that the cavalry should be toned down? I am probably not going to tone them down, but I am open to suggestions that would bring them inline so to speak without making the nation pointless.

[Cor]

I agree, dont nerf the cavalry!

[Foodstamp]

Morkilus said:
Can Shadowfax be a hero, too?



Morkilus, how would you suggest Shadowfax be implemented as a hero?

[Foodstamp]

Based on feedback, I have compiled a to do list for the next version of this mod.

To Do List:

-Give Helmet to Militia

-Consider name change for Militia that makes the name more consistent with game naming scheme.

-Add more heroes

-Look into altering resource cost on mounted units to match the prescribed method of creating resource costs for modded mounted units.

-Create spell song type blesses that bolster troops in subtle ways.

-Increase holy on Lady of the Shield-arm and the Priestess.

[Morkilus]

Foodstamp said:

Morkilus said:
Can Shadowfax be a hero, too?



Morkilus, how would you suggest Shadowfax be implemented as a hero?



Well, it was kind of a lame joke spawned from the Glamdring discussion... but how about a horse with absurdly high Defense, Awe (from the end of The Two Towers) and he domspawns wild horses (Shadowfax has to be fecund, after all)? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Cor]

Shadowfax needs recouperation. He can run for days.

[Shovah32]

Shouldnt that be reinvigoration?

[Endoperez]

Shadowfax, option 1: An immortal warrior, Champion of the Great Horse. Description states how the rider may die, but Shadowfax will just return home and seek out a new rider worthy of fighting on its back.

Shadowfax, option 2: One of the heroes rides Shadowfax. Mapmove 4, all survivals, AP 30 or so, good defence.

[Cor]

Shovah32 said:
Shouldnt that be reinvigoration?



Oh yes. Sorry.

[Tuidjy]

Endoperez's option #1 appeals a lot to me.

[Eradan]

Is there any way to set up a Dom3 map so Rohan will start in a specific province?

I'm mostly thinking of the Midle Earth map of course....

Thanks, Eradan

[Foodstamp]

I could fix you up, but it looks like Dedas has you covered in the other thread. It's fairly easy to fix, so he should be able to take care of it for you no problem http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Dedas]

There is an inconsistency with upper and lower case letters in your mod. It makes the game crash if you play it on any OS that differentiate between cases - like Linux. The error is here:
myloadmalloc: can't open /home/andreas/dominions3/mods/./rohan/rohanflag.tga

Just to letting you know. )

[Eradan]

Thanks Foodstamp.

Hey are you planning to do any of the other ME nations?

[Foodstamp]

@ Dedas

When I update this mod, I will make the case changes http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

@ Eradan

I would like to, but it will probably be a good while. Right now most of my modding time goes towards the "Master of Magic" mod, which still has a ton of work left.

[moderation]

Hey it looks like a cool mod!


Foodstamp said:
Cons:
Lacks high powered mages




Maybe you could make Wormtongue or Saruman recruitable to remedy this? If nothing else, they can help catch arrows! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Alderanas]

i am not sure if this has been done or suggested before but a national spell could be the mustering of rohan. Where they get an above normal amount of their riders for a good price of course. You could give rohan Gandalf cause he did help them alot and he could be riding that white horse of his.

[Zentar]

Maybe you could make Wormtongue or Saruman recruitable to remedy this? If nothing else, they can help catch arrows! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif



Why would you make the two enemy mages recruitable by Rohan? Gandalf could possibly fit thematically.

[Alderanas]

if you put wormtongue in the game rohan would be a cripple of a nation because wormtongue was sarumans agent.

[Foodstamp]

New Version! See Original Post.

[jfp3]

I'm checking these guys out for what I hope to be my first "start2finish" game. 15 turns in and love my Riders :-)

[Foodstamp]

Good deal :). Let me know how the game pans out. I've been real busy lately but I will try to check in here to see your progress!

[Nikelaos]

I seem to recall there being a brief period of time when Rohorrim throne was usurped by Wulf of dunland.

You could possibly add more diversity to the nation by setting it during Wulf's reign, making Wulf your unique starting King, and adding Dunlending influences.

Also wasn't Dunharrow used as a refuge by Rohan? (memory fading), if so you've got contact with the oathbreakers (army of the dead) in dunharrow which would allow you to add death magic to the nation. Problem is that the oathbreakers bow only to the heir of isildor...isildor was both gondorian(not rohirrim) and I believe after the time of wulf.

well there's 2 ideas atleast, you may try Wulf's Rohan/Dunland route which since the dunlendings fought for Sauron may allow you to thematically use Rohirrim cavalry alongside mordor forces (pushing it a bit I think though)

or you could go the 'Ally of Gondor' route giving access to the army of the dead (who as it happens were of dunlending heritage), through maybe a hero or unique summon who could freespawn oathbreakers and had some access to death magic. And hell you could even add some gondorian infantry (without making em too good, keep cavalry as the focus but have gondorians for flavour).

I know both ideas are stretching it a bit as the focus is on Rohan, however I'm not sure how else you could balance out the limited magic whilst keeping somewhat thematic and staying true to the lotr representations of rohan.

[Foodstamp]

Nikelaos,

TY for the ideas! Any further work I do to this mod will be adding a spell or two and a couple of more heroes.

[Nikelaos]

np, it's my pleasure

I'm also planning on beggining work on a mod of my own soon, and morally I can't expect similar help without dishing out some first... go Karma!

[fantasma]

I downloaded the mod today and it's really nice, especially the graphics.

I post some suggestions here, which come to my mind, mainly for thematic reasons.

I think the King should be mounted, he is not, atm.

The Rohirrim are mentioned to be tall and strong, so an extra HP and strength across the board are ok. They are, in fact, very similar themewise to EA Ulm, both inspired by norse people, I think.

The morale of the mounted troops is a bit meh across the board, topping at 13 for the scared. What is it that the standard bearer has 11 compared to 12 for the rider? They are to be brave and unbreakable, as you say!

Also, you give an additional +1/+2 attack but not defense? In my understanding Rohan riders are sort of medium cavalry in terms of armor but excellently skilled fighters on their horses. I'd take the knight unit as a base to orient myself statwise and armourwise in the early age ~12. I think 5 encumbrance is arguably high for a rider spending their whole life in the saddle on superior horses. They do not tire, go down to 3 (skirmishers) and 4 for the rest.

I am not sure if they should have sacreds at all. Rather than the royal guard I think a capital only shield maiden unit would fit. The royal guard is just like a rider with better armour and +1 across the board.

Religion is poorly developed, and I think more nature oriented, they are a rural people after all. A female shaman 1H1N0.1WDAS maybe? I have some trouble justifying the priestess or any lvl2 priest, except the king.

Interesting that you saw Rohan as a strict absolute monarchy, I doubt that they have the infrastructure and administration to support one. They are rather a tribal society, somewhere on the verge of a feudal system with a king and its council being important on nation-wide decisions but that the scattered half-nomad communities would be fairly independent in day to day matters.

I like your taking as making the king unique! There should be a way to promote a horseman to king, though, through a spell that can only be cast once there isn't any king left, like the prophet. I doubt that this is moddable though.

The capital gives only 4 gems, I guess it is intentional, although I do not understand why. Ok, this is not a magically rich setting in terms of spellcasters, mainly because magic is almost exclusively corrupted by Sauron, but the land itself is full of magic.

Some suggestions: The hornburg is a mountain refuge, built strong. So it could give 1E income. Also, a cap only castle builder could be argued, something like a helming leader, e1n1, with stronger castle defense. In peace he helps growing crops, constructs tools but his main job is to maintain the defenses.

You could add the hobbit (was it Meriadoc Took?) as a hero. A stealthy, sling throwing armoured hoburg champion with good MR, 2 more HP, slightly better stats (he drank the Ent stuff).

I would mod shadowfax as a riderless horse, there are other cases of intelligent animals in the game, like the boar for Marverni. Mapmove 4, 40AP, high defense, awe, domsummon horse, standard 15, decent MR, leader, sacred? Onebattlespell running, maybe. Reinvig 2, enc 2. Two misc slots, hoof attack only. Maybe a fear causing aura, attack, or spell?

One hero should have the horn, which should add a high standard and enable some panic/fear spell or effect. Not sure if this is moddable as a unique artifact, I'd rather add it as a hero who comes with the effects.

An interesting idea would be to add Wormtongue as a strong heretic (10?) hero adding misfortune but nice magic paths, like F2A2W2D2S2.

Foodstamp, please don't get me wrong this is just my taking on the Rohan theme, meant as constructive criticism, take from it what you like. I know that this is a completely different interpretation of the theme but I wanted to share my thoughts.

[Nikelaos]

having a 10 heretic hero appear in the first few turns would be disasterous, especially if you hav a weak dominon. I think it's far too excessive and could be more of a curse than a blessing. perhaps 3 heretic like LA pythiums revelers, if wormtongue would be implemented.

[fantasma]

Well, that's sort of the point about Wormtongue, isn't it? He IS a curse and somehow should be in the game.

[Gregstrom]

A curse that wipes out a nation if he appears in the first few turns is no fun, though.

Make him a high stealth spy who automatically causes unrest, perhaps?

[Nikelaos]

agreed with the above

[Foodstamp]

Really good ideas, ty for taking the time to post. Fantasma, I like your take on Rohan better than mine :).

[fantasma]

Imagine you get him turn 2, it will wipe dominion in your capital, but usually it will have spread somewhere. And heretic ability is only effecting the province the unit is in, no? So, you should conquer something with your starting army turn 2, send him along, thus your capital has time to reestablish dominion. He will probably idle/search for some time until you find a place to stick him in. Or you can just kill him off, he should be physically weak, the archetype of the whimsy human mage, although I definitely would not make him old.

On a second thought, I would start looking at a mixture of horse tribe, eponi knight as a place to start. No hoof attack. 25-30g. You need specially trained warhorses to teach them trampling. This unit is just the average farmer mounted on one of the abundant horses. A shortbow, a light lance, a broadsword. Maybe javelin? Enc 3, fast, high defense, att 11.

Then the rider of Rohan, the more or less standing army, should be a knight with 12 protection-chainmail and the cap.

I don't think there should be other recruit everywhere infantry besides the militia, not the shortbow infantry. Yes, a cheap archer is nice, but they live and die on horseback, except the ones from Helm's Deep.

I think the wise woman is too cheap, but should be sacred, maybe h1. Don't forget, you get so many path combinations with frequent astral, so all paths are easily boosted on the battlefield. That means all powerful ANSD spells are in range without much effort.

I don't know, a sprinkle of water could be justifiable in some place, like earth. I would have to reread the two towers, but the ferocious fighting skill could mean some access to fire, or berserker abilities. Maybe on a mounted sacred warrior maiden. They should be mounted anyways, it's all about horses. But then the warrior maiden stretches the theme. It is a pretty rare appearance, more of a hero, than a recruitable.

[Gregstrom]

Imagine you get him turn 2, it will wipe dominion in your capital, but usually it will have spread somewhere.
Usually. Not always. And of course that depends on your base dominion, whether you have an awake pretender, whether you make a prophet on turn 1 and so on. If I'm forced into making gameplay decisions because of a potentially lethal national hero, that's a bad thing.

So, you should conquer something with your starting army turn 2, send him along, thus your capital has time to reestablish dominion. He will probably idle/search for some time until you find a place to stick him in. Or you can just kill him off,

So you get a hero who sometimes *has* to be left idle or suicided? Where's the fun?

[fantasma]

Well, what is the fun of getting a human commander hero? Yay, a super troop ferry. He has to be idle until you can afford a lab, but usually I'd spend his time site searching, leaving him idle or suicide him is just if you are fearing dominion kill. And that all assumes he appears very very early. To counter this, he should bring significant diversification and/or other interesting options. But he is a serious, potentially lethal danger to the nation, and that should be represented.

He could also be stealthy (he is a sneaker, after all) and a spy, so just send him off to enemy territory. Actually, I like this better than the mage idea. A spy with seduction (by whispers and promises, not sexually).

My approach is primarily thematic, though.

[Gregstrom]

[QUOTE] Well, what is the fun of getting a human commander hero? Yay, a super troop ferry.[QUOTE]

That's why the Worthy Heroes mod exists. Besides which, I don't think it's a good argument to say 'the status quo is less than ideal, so a mod shouldn't worry if it does the same'.

Why not make Wormtongue a corrupter rather than of a seducer? It'd be more thematic, and more useful.

[fantasma]

hmm, I don't remember, what exactly is a corruptor?

[fantasma]

The hero should be useful and unique, just maybe not in the very first turns.

[Nikelaos]

iirc a corruptor works sort of like a seducer, but corruption isn't gender specific and yes it would be more thematic because Wormtongue is in no way considered attractive; he couldn't seduce a prostitute.

[fantasma]

oh, a new feature (to me), who has it? That definitely is better.

[Nikelaos]

the grigori summons for hinnom... or atleast Azazel not sure about the others.

I think I'm right in saying one of the demon lords also has it... Belphagor I think.

[Stavis_L]

The problem is that the corrupter flag isn't directly addable (it must be copied from an existing unit) and all of those units are Demons (there's no way to remove the Demon attribute.)

[Nikelaos]

that's true, it wouldn't be thematic for wormtongue to be a demon

[Foodstamp]

Bumping this because someone asked about LOTR mods in another thread :).