Ogre Kingdoms - MA Warhammer Nation - 0.9 minor update

[Sombre]

PREVIEW IMAGE

http://i32.tinypic.com/34xs4rp.png

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-- Version 0.9

-- FIX - Shorter facet of the maw (spell) description

-- TWEAK - Hunter harpoon now dt_large for bringing down the heffalumps

-- FIX - Skrag Gorger summon no longer messes with lantern shield

-- FIX - Gnoblar scouts get mountainsurvival

-- FIX - Berserkers was showing up twice in spell library



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OGRE KINGDOMS version 0.8

-- TWEAK - Gorger Pitfeast B3 -> B4

-- TWEAK - Scrapapult goldcost 170 -> 150

-- CONTENT - Mawfiend summon added

-- CONTENT - Mawpit summon added for B3E1, H3 blood saccer, no slots, no upkeep

-- CONTENT - Mawgut summon/transformation added

-- TWEAK - Braugh's weapon now raises those it slays

-- CONTENT - Yhetee shaman summon added

-- CONTENT - Skrag the Slaughterer hero added

-- TWEAK - Tyrants reduced to 80 leadership

-- TWEAK - Slaughtermasters get FE 100% pick

-- TWEAK - Gnoblar single recruits added as option, new 'flung scrap' missile weapons

-- TWEAK - New costs for commanders in line with new philosophy

-- TWEAK - Reduced costs of most recruits

-- CONTENT - Henchfiend summon added as researcher with access into death/fire

-- TWEAK - Ogre Temples, being pits in the ground, now only 100 gold

-- TWEAK - Butcher and Slaughtermaster mr boosts

-- TWEAK - Gnoblar got some patrolbonus to reflect their multiunit status



OGRE KINGDOMS 0.7

-- FIX - Reordered ID numbers to avoid future conflicts with basegame

-- TWEAK - Altered Eastern Maneater graphic slightly

-- TWEAK - Slightly decreased scraplauncher cost and increased range

-- TWEAK - Increased price of yhetee and gorger summons

-- TWEAK - Giants get one misc slot

-- TWEAK - Improved PD

-- CONTENT - Added first prophet national hero

-- TWEAK - Ogres with two weapons now don't get Ogre Smash and have had their cost tweaked accordingly

-- FIX - Changed name and epithet to better fit dominions

-- FIX - Changed name of dm and mod folder to fit my conventions

-- FIX - Starting scout is now a butcher, since they have dying dom



OGRE KINGDOMS 0.6

-- CONTENT - Added Hero 'Slavelord Braugh' and his slaves, plus his two weapons

-- FIX - Fort types checked and changed

-- TWEAK - Sacred pitfighter +10 goldcost

-- TWEAK - Bruiser and Tyrant commanders -10 goldcost each

-- TWEAK - Slavegiant gets siegebonus 5

-- FIX - added the missing mountainsurvival to gnoblar units

-- TWEAK - deathbelcher weapon better, unit +4 goldcost

-- TWEAK - gave yhetee coldpower 2



OGRE KINGDOMS 0.55

-- fixed a bunch of id conflicts with MA Skaven, should all work fine together now



OGRE KINGDOMS 0.5


-- added ogre nametype 147

-- darkvision handed out, use of copystats removed

-- checked IDs against Skaven 0.9, CBM 1.21, Avernum 1.45 + others

-- made slave giants into commander units with no slots, improved their graphics


-- Version 0.4

-- Slavegiant, scrapapult, rhinox, pit fighter added

-- Gnoblar scout added

-- Anoint Mawtribe sacred summon

-- Many tweaks


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STRENGTHS

1. Unequalled offensive force from Ogres
2. Mobile nation with good survivals and mapmove
3. Powerful Gut Magic buffs/summons require little/no research
4. Gnoblars, giants and scraplaunchers fill specific roles
5. Very thuggable commanders


WEAKNESSES

1. Horrible research
2. Very poor magic diversity
3. Constant supply issues
4. Dying dominion requires sacrifice
5. Predictable

[Sombre]

This is just a post to attach the basic ogre pic - the one I will work from as a template. Feel free to suggest changes to it, because I am not really that familiar with the Ogre models in warhammer (though I have the army book).

Obviously I don't want to copy the warhammer style exactly, I want it to fit in with dom3 and the skaven nation I've already done.

I based it on the O-Bakemono, which you can probably spot if you're familiar with them.

[llamabeast]

Looks good. Ogres are since my time with Warhammer. I'm glad you haven't gone with the weird grey look Games Workshop have gone with though, I find that really offputting.

I'm really looking forward to having a play with your Skaven when I get a chance - have been very busy lately, plus have been obsessively doing Tomb Kings every spare minute. Sorry I haven't been able to comment properly on them yet, they look really exciting.

[Ballbarian]

Looks like there will be yet another great mod for me to dive into playing when the shine has started to wear down for me on the vanilla game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I am not very familiar with the Warhammer games, but I have always been intrigued by the series. Thanks for all of your hard work on these mods.

[Theonlystd]

After how well the Skaven mod turned out.. Im really excited about this and well any others u try.



Btw what do you consider Giant Str? 14 str to me seems low but i have no idea what you considering a Giants for comparison .

[Sombre]

Well basic Ogres actually only have Str 4 Tgh 4 in warhammer, which really isn't that strong - only as strong as a big orc for instance. So I can't really justify giving them Str 20 or something like the Jotuns in dom3. Bandar apes have str 15 I believe, which is roughly the same as the ogres, though the ogres are significantly tougher and get more attacks. The Slave Giant though, will have considerably higher str - giants in warhammer are larger than Jotuns, more like Niefel size.

[Theonlystd]

Sombre said:
Well basic Ogres actually only have Str 4 Tgh 4 in warhammer, which really isn't that strong - only as strong as a big orc for instance. So I can't really justify giving them Str 20 or something like the Jotuns in dom3. Bandar apes have str 15 I believe, which is roughly the same as the ogres, though the ogres are significantly tougher and get more attacks. The Slave Giant though, will have considerably higher str - giants in warhammer are larger than Jotuns, more like Niefel size.



Ahhh


Never played the actual warhammer board game the curse of living in the middle of nowhere .

And none of the Warhammer books i've read dealt with em.. So i just assumed they would be 1 handed boulder smashing strong..

[Saulot]

Looks good so far (both outline and the ogre sprite).
Looking forward to it.

[Sleet]

Looks cool. My son inherited a boxful of Warhammer minis all painted, he is looking forward to playing Dom3 - this will work out well.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Sombre]

Ok I have another little preview. I made some changes to the basic ogre and added in one equipped with 'gutplate n bits', an 'ogre choppa' and an ironfist. I've also done a flag, although I'm not happy with the bit mounted at the top yet - that cattle skull is just a placeholder. The flag depicts the Great Maw, devouring god of the ogres.

It's attached.

I'm going with quite straightforward graphics for the ogres, even more so than with the skaven, as they look fairly alike. I'll make sure to throw in enough variety to keep them from being boring though.

I gave them a little playtest just using a handful of their units and they tore [censored] up nicely. I toned them down a touch but I reckon they're about the same power as giants - better against groups of smaller foes (due to more attacks) but worse against bigger ones (due to lower strength).

[llamabeast]

Looking very nice. They're really brutish! Very ogry.

[Baneslave]

How about giving them different kinds of war paints? It would make some differences between those basic models.

[Juzza]

I really don't think fear is quite appropriate, it seems like it will be too devastating, they'll smash front lines with the bull rush and their weapon attack, the fear will then shred moral, um, whatever happened to lesser fear??

[Sombre]

I agree, which is why I never planned on giving them fear. Fear is reserved for special cases, such as Warhammer creatures that cause terror.

The bull charge isn't very strong the way I have it set up right now - a charge bonus on the primary weapon is just too good, so they only get it on the ogre smash, which is a dmg 0 str based attack.

As for warpaint and variety - I think they're relatively varied without it, but I can throw some in on certain units. Butchers for example will get some nice tattoos and bloodpaint and they'll have no gutplate. I'm 80% finished with the irongut graphic, I'll attach it and you can tell me which version you prefer, or suggest changes. They do wicked damage with those two handed choppas - really good for taking down giants and heffalumps and the like. Their overall prot value is very attractive too.

[llamabeast]

How about giving them a one-use-only weapon for the bull charge?

[Sombre]

I could do. I'll see how they go in testing and maybe they can have a one shot bull charge weapon. I did have another idea, which was to have a first form which tramples, then a second form, after taking very minimal damage, which does not. I gave it a try but it wasn't doing it for me, so I scrapped it.

Currently they wreck stuff nicely and the charge bonus is minimal, unlike with say, units with lances, where the charge is the scariest thing.

[Sombre]

I did a couple of warpaint jobs on the Bulls.

I think I'll have warpainted Ogres be a low level blood summon - after all their warpaint is mostly blood. They can have an extra bit of morale and magic res, maybe even berserk as well.

Image is attached.

[Kristoffer O]

Looks great!

I have no clue as to what Ogres do, but I wouldn't mind beating them with my darkelves (hint, hint). http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Sombre]

Ogres stomp things. That's about as complicated as they get.

As for Dark Elves, they're on the list. I do like them and think they'd be very interesting in Dom3, but Dwarfs, Ogres and possibly some others will come first.

Then there's other modding to be considered. I'm not bothered about any /new/ mods apart from warhammer ones at the moment, but I do want to get all the stuff I've released to a nice finished version. That means Arga Dis, Jomon Broken and Tharoon in particular need some serious work done on them. Vaetti, Ulm Reborn and Avernum are pretty solid already, but might need a few little tweaks.

So after those, Skaven, Ogres and Dwarfs, you might get Dark Elves.

[Kristoffer O]

Nice http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Alderanas]

you could try an ogre mage with like some sort of bloodlust thing inhancing strength or attack

[Sombre]

They'll get Ogre Butchers who have a few different Gut Magic spells in the blood school. Gut Magic probably won't require blood slaves. At least one will be a troop buff of some sort.

[Zelgadis]

Hello, Maybe some of this info would help you. Also whoever said orge don't cause fear never played warhammer much at all.

Characters

When someone says the word 'ogre', a little twinge of fear sparks in your gut (calling of the Maw?). When someone says the words 'ogre lord' together, it's enough to give weak bowled thinlings indigestion. Truly, ogres characters are amongst the most dauntying of opponents in the Warhammer world. Great abilities, good items and fear causing; let's take a closer look at these rotund beasts among beasts...

Tyrants

Aptly named, these guys are a great choice for a leader when the option becomes available at 2,000 pts. They have great abilities, lacking only ever so slightly on I and WS, but this is more than made up for through phenomenal strength, toughness and wounds attributes.

Some ideas for magical kits:

- Elf Killer - Give him a Cathayan Longsword, Ironfist, heavy armour, Gut Maw, Deathcheater Big Name, Wyrdstone Necklace. The boost to WS and extra attacks means you will be hitting pretty easily, wounding even easier and most rank and file elves will not get any saves against you. Good vs low toughness enemies.
Statline: WS7, S5, T5, A6, I5, AS 4+, Ward 5+, re-roll all successful hits vs tyrant once per game, -3 enemy AS.
- Chariotbreaker - Give him a Great Weapon, Greatskull, Gut Maw, Heavy Armour, Greedy Fist, Mawseeker Big Name. Result, large strength hits causing lots of hurt, great armour save and boosted toughness to deal with impact hits that come your way. Good vs high toughness enemies.
Statline: S7, T6, AS 3+, stupidity.
- Superstrong - Give him Siegebreaker, Giantbreaker, heavy armour, Bullgut, Thiefstone. Cast bull gorger fon his units and you will have...
Statline: WS6, S10, T5, A5, 4+ AS.

Slaughtermaster

The choice cut when it comes to Gastromancy, this beast is great for giving you units the boost that they need to win you the battle. While his spells aren't the most lethal (more on that in the magic sections), they aren't the only thing to look out for, he's a decent combatant to boot, with toughness and wounds that match the tyrant's!

Some options for Slaughtermasters:

- Magic Breaker- Bloodcleaver, Dispel Scroll, 3 Gnoblar Thiefstones. Stick him in a unit and laugh at them while they try and get spell off against the unit at Magic Resistance 3!
- Boom Hur Hur Hur- Bloodcleaver, Bangstick, Power Stone x 2; and no, not offensive as in gesticulating rudely at your opponent with your model!

Special mention must be made here for the 2 special characters, Greasus Goldtooth and Skrag the Slaughterer.

Greasus Goldtooth

The much maligned Overtyrant of the Ogre Kingdoms can only be fielded in 3,000 point list, which is a bit of a nuisance, but he's not too bad for a Lord choice. While he had fewer attacks than a regular Tyrant, a wholloping stength 10 and d3 wounds per unsaved hit is a nasty prospect for any opponent to face up to. Also, don't forget his 5 sword gnoblars that are bearing his throne when you're rolling your attacks! On his own, he also has sufficient unit strength to negate enemy ranks with a flank charge too, and impact hits just like a chariot to boot! He is great at boosting friendly combat results with his Hoardmaster ability. Target isolated low LD troops with his "Everyone Has Their Price..." ability for maximum effect.

In summary, a great hero, but a tad overpriced in terms of choice selection (one Lord and hero choice would have been better IMO).

Skrag the Slaughterer

Fielding Skrag as a hero was sheer pleasure. Between the terror, frenzy and gorgers, I couldn't decide which to prasie the most. And the more that he kills, the better he gets! Gorgers also become special choices (these guys are among my favourite ogre kingdom units) so I strongly recommend filling out all spare specials with these nasties, and don't forget that 2 must accompany Skrag at the start of battle (do not arrive as per normal gorger rules). So there, you have a small unit that causes terror and has killing blow. Can it get any better I ask you?

Bruisers

Bruisers are an absolute must if your army is below 2,000 points. The boost that their leadership provides and sheer combat power is usually enough to swing combat in the favour of any unit that he accompanies.

Some tried and tested options for them are:

- Dwarf-Squisher - Giantbreaker, Great Weapon, Heavy Armour, Greedy Fist. Good vs high toughness, heavily armoured foes. Must take a slave giant in your list.
Statline: S8, T5, AS 4+.
- Fancy Sword- Cathayan Longsword, Ironfist, Heavy Armour, Bullgut, Wyrdstone Necklace. Good AS, higher WS, great against low toughness, lightly armoured foes.
Statline: WS6, S5, T5, A5, 4+AS, 5+ Ward.
- Mawseeker- Big Name: Mawseeker, Great Weapon, Heavy Armour, Gut Maw. Very tough, strong hero, fairly low AS though. Follows stupid rules though.
Statline: S7, T6, 4+ AS, stupidity.

Hunter

A very versatile unit, hunters should always be equipped with their two pet cats at the very least. The Longstrider Big Name is a great buy for them as well, this allows the whole unit to pursue 3d6 rather than 2d6 for an unmodified hunter. These guys should be used for negating ranks with flank charges and for using his harpoon to get some flank shots in (as bolt thrower).A sample I've liked using is:

- Big Steps - Longstrider, 2 kitties, Greedy Fist.
- Baby Steps - Mastodon Armour, 2 kitties.
- Ghost Steps - Big Name: Beastkiller, Greyback Pelt, 2 kitties.

Butcher

As per description for Slaughtermasters above.

Some options:

- Offensive - Boom Stick, Dispel Scroll.
- Defensive - Halfling Cookbook, Dispel Scroll.
- Vs Low Ld Enemies - Skullmantle.

A note on Gnoblar options for heroes...Always take them! Sword gnoblars add cheap attacks, granted at low strength, but they are at your ogre's WS! Tooth gnoblars are great for adding to see if you cast a spell (especially when you use one dice), and luck gnoblars no hero should not leave his yart without!

Core Units

For most armies, core units are rather ho-hum. Not for this one though, with choices like bull ogres and ironguts, even meagre core units have the potential to dish out whopping amounts of damage. Let's also not forget their little greenish side-kicks, gnoblars, who also have their uses.

Bull Ogres

You must take al least one unit of bulls for the army to be legal. And why wouldn't you, they are fantastic. Great strength and toughness, combined with enough wounds and attacks to weather a storm of blows and dish out punishment of their own. Bulls are a very versatile core choice, which can be tailored to specific roles rather well.

Naked with a club... - despite how this sounds, this is not too bad (ok, well maybe bad visually) . It's your basic cost ogre and they can be really handy against toughly armoured opponents. Try bumping up their strength just before close combat with bullgorger, and while they're out of close combat have them run around with trollguts on them.
Statline: 3 x S4 attacks, armour piercing (unmodified with spells).

Found me another club! - additional hand weapons are probably not the best option for ogre troops for the simple reason that for a point extra / model, you can have ironfists.

Rags and a spiky fist! - These things are fantastic! With ironfists you can choose whether you want to use it as a shield or additional handweapon at the start of close combat every turn! Combined with light armour, these guys are great in pretty much any situation, and they excel against lightly armoured foes and low toughness enemies. Spells to consider boosting them with in close combat are bullgorger / toothcracker, and trollguts out of close combat.
Statline: 3 or 4 attacks at S4, 6+ or 4+ AS depending on how ironfist is used.

Ironguts

When I grow up, I wanna be an Irongut! These guys are great if you can afford the points cost. While not as versatile as bulls, who needs versatility when you have heavy armour and great weapons as standard? Obvious uses for these guys are as flankers and to take out high toughness enemies (dwarfs, orcs, chhaos warriors, etc) and ogre sized enemy units (kroxi's, ushabti, minotaurs come to mind here).
Statline: 3 x S6 attacks for your basic ogre. 5+ AS for all.

Command or no command, that is the question...

With the relatively high cost for core ogre units, one has to be savvy when using command models to maximise the points available to you for troop selection. As a rule, I add a full command in my larger units (6+ models) that will be used for frontal assaults. For flanking units, I tend not to take any upgrades, or if I have a few points spare, I add a musician only.

Gnoblars

Before anyone begins to say anything about how useless they are, keep in mind that they are only 2 points per model... surely you can't expect much from that! With low movement, strength and WS, these guys are good for their outnumber and rank bonuses only (if they can keep up with your ogres that is). Possible uses for them are scraplauncha guarding duties, they would be able to provide adequate cover for any scouts or flyers in the vicinity and could be used to block LOS to prevent charges into unwanted enemies.

A second use may be to provide a unit to engage an enemy with to the front while ogres charge in for flank charges. While hard to achieve on offense, they could fulfill this role pretty easily if you're played defensively.

Also, their ability to throw sharp stuff is pretty handy, especially if they're up on a hill despite their average ballistic skills.

For two points, always take the Groinbiter. Not only is it an extra attack, but quite often you'll find your front rank will be wiped out when charged, so he'll be the only one able to fight back! And the name's too cool as well, always gets a laugh when you tell them that you have a groinbiter in the unit!

Gnoblar Trappers

These gnoblars are actually pretty useful. Being scouts and skirmishers as well, they can be used to get behind enemy lines and pepper the enemy with sharp stuff, blocking marches and taking our war machines though numbers and combining with gorgers when they arrive.

Lookout gnoblars...

These guys are very useful against artillery heavy armies (dwarves and empire especially come to mind here) so take them if you're facing off against them for any unit you plan on putting a character in. Also a good idea if the composition of your force is purely small units of ogres. Look Out Sir rolls are crucial for any army with the potential to take out your characters from afar.

Special Units

Whether it's cannon wielding maniacs, savage white beasts or an odd weapons launching war machine, the special choices are indeed great for Ogre Kingdom players and add some much needed variety to your army's mix.

Leadbelchers

While erractic in terms of the number of shots, these ogres have the potential to dish out a lethal amounts of damage. My favourite tactic with these guys is what I like to call the "Auto charge". Line then up for a shot at a given enemy unit, measure to see if you are in firing range. Remember, that you do not suffer from penalties from movement or long range either. Then, if the unit is still there, the following turn you can charge into combat most of the time, as your charge range is also 12"!

Also, while it is possible for them to reload, I have yet to reload them before charging into combat with their cannon (which count as ogre clubs). Also, I generally do not take any command upgrades, other than a Bellower if I have the points spare.

Spells to consider putting on them are bullgorger in close combat, or toothcracker / trollguts when out of combat.

Yhetees

Shaggy white death, my absolute favourite special choice without a doubt. These guys can march with ease to any location you need them to be withuot hindrance from difficult / impassable terrain. They pursue 3d6, and while they have no armour, they do have weapons that count as magical attacks and all attacks against them are at -1 to hit. Yhetees are the ultimate flankers and complement larger blocks of ironguts and bulls perfectly in most situations.
Statline: 3 x S5 attacks, -1 to Hit, magic frost weapons.

Gnoblar Scraplauncher

This contraption is one of the weirdest war machines out there. A stone thrower that uses the large template and has killing blow, but armour saves are allowed as normal against non-killing blow wounds. This would be useful against well armoured foes, such as dwarves or chaos, especially if you have filled out a few slots with these contraptions.

To make things little more interesting, they also follow the rules for chariots, so a strength 7 hit will turn them into matchwood and the rhinox pulling the contraption is champing at the bit to get into combat and usually charges if it can sight an enemy (testing on Ld5 unless your Tyrant is around to restrain).

One thing to note is that this contraption counts as unit strength 5, so it does negate rank if you flank / rear charge someone with it. A fear causing flanker is always a good thing to have on your own side!

Rare Units

Ogre rare units are the creme de la creme of ogres, each one has the edge to swing the battle in your favour. The choices are varied in terms of abilities, so let's look at the options; Maneaters, Gorgers and Slave Giants.

Maneaters

These ogres are essentially mini-bruisers that you can rank up into a unit. They are very versatile and you can even mix your weapons if you like in the unit as well! One important difference between maneaters and bruiser though, is that maneaters are immune to psychology (goodbye banshee screams) and stubborn too! Therefore, this makes them ideal for halting large fear causing units and cavalry, while the remainder of your force moves into counter charging positions!

Some options for weapons mixes are:

Boomsticks - brace of handguns, heavy armour, cathayan longswords. These maneaters can be used for fighting high WS troops, lightly armoured troops and have the ability to stand and shoot at any counter chargers - usually with no save allowed!
Statline: Multiple shots (x2) armour piercing S4, 5 x WS5, armour piercing, S5 attacks.

Wheeled Thingy Hunters - Great weapons, heavy armour. Units of 2-3 used as bait for chariot charges. One strike back at the chariot is an auto kill for you! The same combination is great for supporting Irongut charges against highly armoured opponents.
Statline: 5+ AS, Strikes Last, 4 x WS4, S7 attacks.

Slave Giants

Two Words: Cheap Giants! These guys have similar random attacks to O&G or Chaos Beastmen Giants and the same drawback (falling down too often), but unlike their other cousins, they are not subborn. Therefore, they should not be employed to hold yup or take out units on their own, rather they should be used as flanking chargers to support ogre blocks.

Another thing to be mindful of is that the giant is a large target (no duh), and enemy shooters get +1 to hit him, which tend to make him a bit of a walking pin-cushion. Use forest terrain wisely if you're fielding him!

Gorger

I love saving the best until last! Arriving from a table edge of your choice from turn 2 onwards, these guys are great for so many roles. An individual model with the statline of a Tyrant (except WS) that has killing blow and is unbreakable to boot!

First of all, they are great at taking out war machines. Secondly, they can march block well when they arive early on for you. And lastly, being unbreakable, they can charge into big blocks of infantry (heck, even cavalry) and hold then up long enough for your bigger units to take them apart.

Dogs of War

If you're considering taking them, I'd recommend taking a unit of scouts or fast cavalry (Mengil's Manflayers come to mind here). For fluffy reasons, consider also adding Golfag's Ogres, just because they're more ogres to be had!

Magical Items

Here, I'll quickly go through the prime choices for the array of unique magical items that ogres have at their disposal.

Magic Weapons

Thundermace - Fairly cheap and stone thrower template hits on everything underneath it, worked out as a stone thrower. Remember that multiple wound models recieve d6 wounds from stone throwers too! Not bad at all.
Note: you only get one attack with this weapon, and it does 1 S8 hit doing d6 wounds.

The Tenderiser - A favourite of mine to combine with the Giantbreaker Big Name. And it's a great weapon to boot. Another fantastic weapon.

Siegebreaker - take this against low initiative enemies (O&G's Dwarves, Tomb Kings, Vampire Counts come to mind), great strength boost for your bruiser / tyrant. Good against the above armies.

Skullplucker - I love the fluff for this weapon! Good to take against tin can boys (dwarves, chaos warriors, elf cav, brettonians). Killing blow is always great!

Bloodcleaver - Not too bad for - butchers only - as it will allow you to regain a wound you have lost for every wound you cause in CC. I'd rather spend points on spell boosters / dispels scrolls though if you're taking a butcher though.

Magic Armour

Mastodon Armour - Ok I guess to gurantee that your bruiser / tyrant gets to close combat, but a little pricey. If you have non-magical weapons, might be an option.

Greatskull - While the ability is mediocre, adding +1 to any other armour saves is an attractive option. Again, a little pricey for what it does.

Bullgut - Another item that adds to any other armour save, and adds another impact hit to your character. Not a bad buy, and not bad value either.

Gut Maw - If you're keen on challenging everything in sight (as I am) with your bruiser / tyrant, a great one to take. Another item that adds to any other armour save (apart from the bull gut). Same value as the above item.

Greedy Fist - Another item that adds to any other armour save, this is a cheap and personal favourite of mine to add to the bruiser / tyrant as it eats any opposing magical weapons, and is great for those rare occasions you get into close combat with an ememy mage! An absolute must.

Talismans

Cathayan Jet - Handy to take to protect a lone character (hunters come to mind) vs shooty armies / magicky armies. Still an option for taking vs DE & HE shooty lists.

Spangleshard - A very handy item to take, one of my favourites in the list.

Wyrdstone Necklace - Another handy item, a cheap ward save for the possibility of one wound on the character at the start of the battle. A must have.

Gnoblar Thiefstone - A great cheap way to add dispel dice to your army. Put a character with these in a highly targeted unit (big unit of bulls for example) and watch the spells just roll off them. You can also take from 1-3 of them as one choice (still have to pay for each stone) and have up to a whopping MR 3 on the unit! Highly recommended against magicky armies.

Arcane Items

Hellheart - For the points cost, not worth it really.

Grut's Sickle - Good to power those one dice casts with (almost) free power dice. A good item to have.

Halfling Cookbook - Good for anyone casting Toothcracker / Trollguts often (pretty much all ogre players, right?). Cheap and effective.

Bangstick - The only bound item in the list, and you get to shoot through gnoblars that are in the way! Take it! Normally priced bound item.

Skullmantle - Pretty handy for helping to break units, particularly nasty when combined with a war banner.

Enchanted Items

Brahmir Statue - Take this in addition to the skullmantle vs Chaos / Skaven and watch the fun when they make leadership tests against you at -4!

Daemon-Killer Scars - Terror is good!

Greyback Pelt - Very useful for hunters, and also prevents you from using yhetees. A very good item.

Jade Lion - Useful until your unit flees, not worthwhile for the price.

Rock Eye - Handy against Night Gobbo's, Skaven and Dark Elves especially, but also useful for revealing enemy magical items in the unit. Not bad, well priced.

Fistful of Laurels - Not very useful, despite it's low cost.

Magic Standards

Dragonhide - If the dice gods are against you, this would be a handy banner to take. Immunity to Ice magic is almost irrelevant though. A bit pricey, mediocre value.

Ragbanner - Roll 3d6 for panic checks for the unit. Well priced and a great pick as most ogre units tend to get shot up pretty badly on their way into close combat.

Cannibal Totem - Only useful against other ogre sized models. Useful against all ogre / all minotaur beasts of chaos armies.

Bull Standard - Handy for any gut plate bearing unit, nice and cheap choice as well.

Rune Maw - Use this banner on a big unit without a character with thiefstones in it. then, when the unit is targeted, deflect it onto a unit with the character with theifstones and have fun dispelling! A favourite tactic of mine.

Big Names

What's in a name? A lot if you're an ogre. It tells of your achievements and the more glorious and impressive your name sounds, the more respect and influence you will have. Not only this, but in game terms, adding a big name to an ogre adds an edge to your tyrant / bruiser as well.

Some key reminders; only tyrants can take big names worth more than 25 pts, only tyrants, bruisers and some hunters may take them at all, they count towards your magical item limit and you can only take one per character. So with that out of the way, let's look at them a little closer:

Kineater - Very good for adding to a central unit, great with the ragbanner too.

Mountaineater - Very handy actually, good to use with the spangleshard too.

Longstrider - A great one to take for hunters and their kitties.

Giantbreaker - Fielding a giant? You have to take this name! Too cheap and absolutely awesome.

Deathcheater - One of my personal favourites, now you hit me, now you don't! Nice and cheap too.

Beastkiller - Handy to take against terror causing foes and VC armies that are banshee heavy. Also great against any large monsters. I'd probably be more inclined to give this to a hunter rather than a tyrant.

Wallcrusher - An obvious combination with the Bull Gut. Even bruisers can make this combo work well.

Mawseeker - Despite the stupidity, an awesome grab and too cheap to pass up if you have a name spare and a few points to kill. I'd lean towards giving this to a tyrant due to his higher leadership.

Gut Magic

Magic that depends on eating various types of foods for their effects is going to be volatile, ogre magic is just that. While the array of spells are pretty varied, any miscasts are deadly, and just through simply casting some spells on the list, your butcher / slaughtermaster can sustain a wound.

Also remember that you can have only one 'Remains in Play' spell per unit only, and that you can have more than one remains in play spell per butcher. Also, keep in mind that RiP spells are dispelled on 7+ always regardless of what casting value they were cast on. As a rule also, try to use only one dice per spell to avoid the terrible miscast effects, there are no items that can help you avoid the effects in the ogre items!With that said, let's look at the spells available to ogre generals...

Bloodgruel - The spell that had to be included! Uses are obvious.

Braingobbler - Ideal for scattering low leadership scouts or flyers (skinks and harpies come to mind here) off the table edge. Also handy for targeting at low LD enemies to cause a panic ripple through the ranks.

Bullgorger - Cast on ogres just before entering close combat.

Bonecruncher - quite a good spell to soften up ranks before close combat. Excels against highly armoured, low toughness foes (high elf cavalry comes to mind here).

Toothcracker - One of the two spells you should consider casting on a unit while marching to combat. Also handy for when you're in combat for the stubbornness. Handy to have the halfling cookbook on anyone casting this spell.

Trollguts - Second of the two spells you should cast on a unit while getting to close combat range, this one also afford your unit some more magical protection too in addition to the ever-handy regeneration. Handy to have the halfling cookbook on anyone casting this spell as well.

Deployment & Tactics

Now that you know what the units are capable of and have some ideas on what item combinations to use for your characters, let's take a look at how to best utilise your army's initial deployment and a further look at some strategies you can employ against various styles of armies.

Ranged

Armies such as dwarves, empire, dark elves, wood elves and high elves can field lists that are able to decimate entire units before they even get to close combat. Use terrain to your advantage and block enemy unit line of sight to you. Spells such as trollguts and toothcracker will be great to help you weather the incoming torrent of enemy fire.

Units to consider: Gnoblar trappers (scouting skirmishers to get behind the line of fire), maneaters(higher toughness - harder to wound), gorgers (as maneaters & get behind enemy lines), leadbelchers (shoot when in range), yhetees (quick movement to get into CC, ignore terrain).

Magic Heavy

Armies in mind: High Elves, Lizardmen with Slanns, Tzeentch Chaos.

When deploying, again block line of sight from any opposing magicians if possible with terrain. Ensure that your butchers have dispel scrolls handy and have them cast trollguts on as many units as possible. The Thiefstone and Rune Maw combination is particularly effective vs magic heavy armies. If your opponent is fond of leaving magicians out of a unit, send your gnoblar trapper to throw sharp stuff at them or send your gorgers against them.

Units to consider: Gnoblar trappers & gorgers.
Items to consider: Rune Maw, 3 Gnoblar Thiefstones, Greatskull (in unit with theifstones), dispel scrolls, trollguts on as many units as possible.

Cavalry Based

Example cav armies: Brettonians, High Elves, Chaos.

Have maneaters and large bull units that are able to bear the brunt of an enemy charge supported by smaller flanking units to their left or right, ready to counter charge. Position scouts and any early arriving gorgers somewhere they can march block the enemy to deny their faster movement. Also, when receiving a charge, have your ogres challenge any other unit champions / heroes to get their champions out of the picture, and hopefully some overkill in your favour.If your opponent has clumped their units around one central unit, try and get any trappers behind the central unit to march block as many units as possible. If done properly, you should be able to march block most of the army, and even get charges of your own in without resorting to baiting (below)!

An alternative tactic I've worked out against cavalry forces is the bait and charge. Put a small unit of bulls slightly forward to a larger unit of bulls. Make sure that they are all a little forward from their starting positions though so that they don't flee off the table when you flee. On turn 2-3, cav units should charge, now make sure that you're over half of their move distance away before hand and declare a flee recation. Provided your rolling isn't too bad (no snake-eyes here) then your bait unit should be away from the chargers and you should also be able to counter charge with the bigger unit of bulls on th next turn, thus negating any of the cavalry unit's charge bonuses! Yhetees are also good as bait due to their 3d6 flee, as are hunters with the longstrider big name (also flee 3d6).

Units to consider: Gnoblar Trappers, Gorgers to march block; maneaters to take a charge, lots of bulls to bait and countercharge cavalry units; yhetees ad hunters (as bait).

Close Combat Specialists

Example close combat armies: Orcs only, Chaos, Lizardmen saurus armies.

This is the most simple of all really, just line up which unit is to fight against which enemy units and once again have smaller flanking units on hand to break the larger enemy units. The simplest way to do this is to march flankers (eg small bull units, yhetees, leadbelchers, etc) slightly forward of larger bull units and have them charge in simultaneously with the large unit, thereby negating enemy rank bonus and causing panic checks due to the charge in the flank as well.

Units to consider: Lots of bull ogres, ironguts, maneaters, yhetees.
Items to consider: War Banner, Bull Standard, Bull Gut.

Horde Armies

Example armies: Skaven, Goblins only, Empire infantry based.Very similar to close combat armies tactics outlined above, but use their lower leadership to your advantage as well. Target them with as many bound items, braingobbler / bonecruncher spells as possible. Also, concentrate this fire on one unit that's close to other units to force 'panic check waves' among their ranks.

Units to consider: Scraplauncher, gnoblar trappers, gorgers.
Items to consider: Grut's hook, Bangstick, Halfling Cookbook.Spells of choice: Toothcracker & Braingobbler.

Mix of Units

Example armies: Dark Elves, Orc & Goblin combined lists, Lizardmen, Chaos.

Well balanced armies can be countered by unbalanced armies. Seeing that you're an ogre general (or tyrant), you have one real option, and that is to go close combat heavy. So bring as many units of bulls as possible to bear, and don't forget your smaller flankers which can be used in this scenario to take out small opposing units as well.

Units to consider: Lots of bulls ogres & ironguts. Balance of Butchers and Bruisers.

Skinning Guide

Now that you know how to use these brutes, and make your opponents cry, I suppose making them look good should be something that we need to consider.

Ogres

The bulk of any real ogre army will be (no surprises here) ogres. First, let's look at skin tones.

Basic - Undercoat them in white, codex grey their skin and apply a quick brush in bleached bone.

Clothing - earthy colours likes browns or dark reds would do well, even black or dark greys work well.

Warpaint / tattoos - Using red, blue, white or black, this is a great opportunity to make your clan stand out. Some examples on what to do:

Basic - full face paint in one color or even half face paint schemes are easy and quick to do if you're painting in a hurry. For the body, consider 'slashes' as quick options to decorate your ogre.

Intermediate - Spirals, jagged ogre clan motifs and other weird shape motifs (especially if you have made them up yourself) would take a little more time to do, but would also make your ogres more unique too.

Advanced - Take a look at some Maori designs and paint / paint-pen them on shoulders, backs or down the arms. While intricate, they can really make your models stand out.

Gnoblars

Get your batch painting technique ready, these guys come in lots of 24! Let's look at their skin first.

Basic - Spray them black, slap on some commando khaki.

Intermediate - Spray them black, then paint over with dark angels green, dry brush commando khaki (twice) and highlights with codex Grey.

Clothing - If you're in a hurry, bestial brown with a chestnut ink wask. If you have time, make the clothes as varied and colourful as you can, these guys forage / steal anything that's not nailed down, they wouldn't know what uniform means!

Yhetees

These guys are pretty straight forward really. How I am doing them is, spray them white and then ink the whole thing in blue ink. Then, brush bleached bone and highlight with skull white. For the greyback, I also apple a light brush of chain mail to the fur on his back to give the illusion of silvery-grey hairs on the leader's back.


maybe this will give you a few ideas. There also a new maneater unit that's a ninja. but it's not listed above.

[Theonlystd]

wow thats a big first post

[Sombre]

Not terribly useful either, since I have the army book.

But thanks anyway : ]

I won't be including the Ogre Ninja. Too jokey.

[Shovah32]

Sombre said:
Not terribly useful either, since I have the army book.

But thanks anyway : ]





He wont like that http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/redface.gif

[Saulot]

Heh, I don't have any warhammer books, so it was useful to me (in a 'I'm curious and that was a somewhat interesting read' manner).

[Sombre]

Attached is a pic of two leader units I've been working on. I'm not totally happy with them,.. anyway, see what you think.

Ogre Butcher and Bruiser.

[Ballbarian]

Lookin' good Sombre! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

[Alderanas]

Ya i liike

[Zelgadis]

Doesn't bother me really I just posted it cause he never played warhammer.

[Sombre]

Who never played warhammer? Me?

[Zelgadis]

Theonlystd and few others who posted on the thread not you. I would hope you have played the tabletop games if you are making mods for them and figured you had. I just posted for few ideas from my gaming experiences and to give others ideas what Ogres really are.

I hope project turns out great. and didn't mean anything bad by anything I said, sorry if you took that way.

As for everything I also take my experiences from my job working on a similar title. that they will be in. but on a different scope then dom 3 and a much bigger game.

[Morkilus]

Well, they certainly look Gluttonous. If this mod ends up anything like the Skaven, I'll like it quite a bit.

[Sombre]

Zelgadis: Of course I don't take what you said as bad; I appreciate you posting. I actually haven't played the tabletop game much, although I had a group of friends who were very into it, so I'm quite familiar with it. I also played some of the Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay back in the day and have always liked the Warhammer World. Oh and I painted miniatures - that part of it I always liked.

My ogre graphics are quite different from the GW models, but that's because I've domified them. GW models tend to have a sort of stylish deformed look to them and are limited by what makes a good and relatively inexpensive plastic or metal model. I want to stay true to the spirit of the ogres, while not exactly copying the models (I prefer to copy the illustrations if anything).

Morkilus - they will hopefully be of the same quality, but they will get less stuff overall. Still, they will have plenty of variety and fun units.

[llamabeast]

Hey Sombre, how's this coming along?

[Sombre]

It's not, unfortunately, at the moment. I'm bogged down with a (somewhat) unexpected load of teaching work for the next couple of weeks.

I'll try to get a bit done every day (just one graphic or a unit entry or something), but basically I think it's on hold until 2 weeks time, when I should hammer it out quicksmart.

The same goes for changes to other mods of mine - in a couple of weeks it'll be all go.

Do you need a hand with any graphics for the tomb kings llama? If you have anything you're struggling with send it over to me or post it up and I'll see if I can't give you a fresh pair of eyes :]

I like your anbuite, but he seems a bit thin. I'd need to check the army book to see if that's just what they're supposed to look like, though.

[llamabeast]

Cool, I'll look forward to it (although make sure not to treat it as a job - I caught myself beginning to do that and had to make myself stop for a bit).

Thanks for the graphics offer. A fresh pair of eyes can definitely be useful at times. I'm about to start on the Ushabti, which I expect to be the most difficult of all, but I'm going to give it a good stab and maybe iterate a bit, then I'll post it and see what people think.

Thanks for the comments on the anubite. I also thought he maybe looked a bit gangly, so perhaps I'll try fattening him up a bit. I gave him a skeletal torso deliberately, inspired by the Warhammer Ushabtis (which are also black and a bit animalish), but maybe that's not quite consistent since they're not actually undead or anything. I'll have a think about it. They're not actually in the Warhammer army you see, just straight from my head, so there's no source material to compare to unfortunately.

[Sombre]

Right, I'm getting back to work on this one starting now.

Tonight I will code them a bunch of low research low cost blood school battle spells. Ogres aren't going to do a whole lot of researching, see? They'll need indies for that.

I need to get some kind of gnoblar graphic ready as well.

[Sombre]

Here's a rough gnoblar preview. I can't decide which head shape I prefer - one really emphasises the size of their head, nose and ears and is a bit cartoony, like the GW miniatures themselves,.... the other is more in line with dom3 graphical style/scale.

My plan is to allow you to buy a size 3 unit of 4 gnoblars which has 3 attacks. When this takes a hit it's down to size 3- 3 gnoblars, 3 attacks, then size 2- 2 gnoblars, 2 attacks and finally a size 1 single gnoblar with his one crappy attack. Like the Skaven Slave recruits, this is so you can use the gnoblars as chaff and not worry too much about your total number of casualties causing all your big hard Ogre Bulls to run away.

I was messing around with the Ogre Hunter today and he has one scary ranged attack! He was picking off enemy cavalry quite nicely.

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/uploads/543257-Gnoblar%20work.png

[Theonlystd]

*cant wait*

[llamabeast]

I like the right hand gnoblars better, but they seem to have a hole in their heads. Maybe fill in one of the two black pixels under their ears.

[Sombre]

I left the gnoblar graphics at that beta stage and got them working in the game - I'll come back to them later, but they're so small and numerous and quickly killed that improved graphics won't make a huge difference with them. They are fun to use though.

Just uploading a png of the deathbelcher, which is a pretty scary close range missile unit.

[Sombre]

I'm working on the Ogre Slaughtermaster. Attached is a preview pic of the slaughtermaster next to the butcher.

I hope he is different enough for people to recognise. He is larger, has a different weapon and of course the leatherface style mask.

[Kristoffer O]

> I'm working on the Ogre Slaughtermaster

Looks cool!

[Sombre]

He's all done for now.

Next is the gorger or the yhetee, hopefully will finish either one tonight.

[Sombre]

Here's a sort of preview of the gorger. This unit has given me stupid amounts of trouble - this is the third time I've restarted from scratch and I think I'm finally close. It's not finished yet of course.

[Sombre]

This is the finished Gorger.

I tested the unit today - very powerful indeed. He's a great national blood summon which will really encourage blood hunting for the ogres.

[Kristoffer O]

Nice!

[Noble713]

This is shaping up pretty well so far, can't wait to try it out...

Also eagerly awaiting the eventual release of the Dark Elves.

[Sombre]

The beta will be out tonight or tomorrow.

It will include,....

Ogre Bull with club
Ogre Bull with ironfist and choppa
Ogre with Deathbelcher
Ogre Irongut
Gnoblar Fighters

Ogre Bruiser
Ogre Tyrant
Ogre Hunter
Ogre Butcher
Ogre Slaughtermaster

Gorger
Sabretusk

Some gut magic (but not all)

As you can see, a lot is missing. This beta is mainly so that I can get some input as to the general feel of the nation. Are they brutal a stompy enough and so on,... the graphics for those units won't be 100% finished either. The gnoblars for instance will use a placeholder until I can be bothered to sort 'em out.

In the meantime, here's a preview of the Hunter I just finished up.

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/uploads/548129-Ogre%20Hunter.png

[Morkilus]

I'd love to try this out tonight. Sprites are looking amazing!

[Alderanas]

this looks amazing!!! cant wait to try it out.

[Sombre]

Beta of the tyrant graphic. He's giving me lots of problems. Big git. Anyway, I'm not sure I like the look of a helmet on him. I stuck him next to a bull for size comparison.

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/uploads/548311-Tyrant%20beta%20graphic%20preview.png

[Sombre]

Beta 0.2 released.

It's missing big chunks and is riddled with problems no doubt, but it's up on the first page and you're welcome to try it.

[Sombre]

Attaching a national preview.

[Sombre]

Oh and I just learned that gorger summons don't work.

You need to go into the dm and replace the damage value of the two gorger spells with 2188, instead of,.. 2153 or whatever it was before.

[Aezeal]

IMHO Ogres should be smaller than giants (I'm pretty sure that is how it is in warhammer) and their HP should reflect that (make it 20 not 30)

[zepath]

Bloody brilliant, Sombre.

[Morkilus]

Eh, Dominions giants aren't really that huge. If you want huge, you have the niefels - I don't know much about the Warhammer variety.

[Shovah32]

The warhammer variety, within the warhammer world, a very big. Certainly alot bigger than the ogres.

[Aezeal]

Yeah in warhammer giants are huge at least 5x as strong (in points/costs) as ogres.. but if we give the ogres 30/5 hitpoints there wouldn't be a point so I said something between humans and giants.

In warhammer they are about equal to troll.. dunno how much hp they have in dominions though.

[Sombre]

What do you mean there wouldn't be a point? WH giants translated to dom3 are size 6, not size 4 like the Jotuns. They'll have considerably more hp than 30.

Ogres in WH are also easily three times tougher to kill than humans. They have 3 wounds and 4 toughness compared with 1 wound and 3 toughness. I converted WH ogres to dom3 and gave them size and hp based on this comparison and on simple model size comparison. WH giants will be comparable with /maybe/ Neifels, but not Jotuns - they're in a much higher weight class.

These ogres /are/ smaller than Jotuns, but comparisons between the size and hp of those two units aren't much use. I'm not making WH units by comparing directly with dom3. I want to have my WH mods fit in dom3 and be balanced in dom3, but I'm not really trying to 'integrate' them and base my stuff on vanilla units. If I was, I'd give ogres higher strength than 14 or so - but any more isn't something I can justify, because WH ogres only have str 4, the same as inner circle knights or black orcs. In my mind, that means a gap of 1 or 2 str in dom3 terms is ok, but more than that and I'm ignoring the WH profile.

[Sombre]

Yhetee size preview. Far from finished, I just fancied showing you how my graphics start out - as rough outlines basically.

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/uploads/549418-Yhetee%20size.png

[Sombre]

I finished off the Yhetee graphic just a moment ago and I realised that the attack sprite did indeed have a certain 'tude about it. So I knocked up a version with more appropriate equipment, for your viewing pleasure. Oh and the finished gnoblar fighter graphic is in there too.

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/uploads/549449-Yhetee%20RAWK.png

[lch]

rock on! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Sombre]

Next version will be out tomorrow. Will add finished graphics for the Tyrant and Gnoblars, a gnoblar trapper recruitable unit which grants some supplies, the yhetee unit as a summon with two spells to summon them and a gut magic spell or two.

Might get something else. Not sure yet. Possibly two Maneater elite units. Eastern Maneater will have Jomonesque samurai equipment, Western Maneater will have Empire style stuff. They'll be very similar, with one costing less resources for sloth style players.

[Morkilus]

HAHAHAHA! If only I didn't already have a forum picture I was fond of.

By the way, one thing I really enjoy about this mod is the challenge of how you need a hefty chow wagon to keep those bellies full. Then I realized the kitties (summonable by the hunters) bring you food! Oh look, Fluffy brought an Atavi head!

^_^

[Sombre]

You'll get the same kind of bonus from mobs of trappers, though they'll be pricier than gnoblar fighters.

I'm going to delay releasing this until Sunday because I need a bit more time to fiddle with graphics and I've been invited to a party tonight. RAWK!

[Sombre]

I've finished the trappers, polished the Tyrant graphic (only a bit, he was damn near finished anyway) and coded the two maneaters.

I'm now working on graphics for them. I cobbled together two rough versions to preview, see if I can get a bit of input before the release tomorrow.

So anyway, East and West Maneaters. Just a rough outline as usual. I'll finish them tomorrow.

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/uploads/549960-East%20meets%20West.png

[llamabeast]

Samurai and pirate eh? Cool.

[Endoperez]

Now it just needs a Kala-Mukha monkey-demon and an Agarthan Sentinel... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Sombre]

He's not a pirate. Nothing nautical about him. The other one you could call a samurai, but he's more of a ronin.

I guess they don't make much sense unless you know something about Maneaters. They're mercenaries who travel all over the warhammer world and are influenced by whatever culture they end up in.

[llamabeast]

He is totally a pirate! :p

Look at him, he's like the main baddy in Pirates of the Caribbean (whose name I have annoyingly forgotten).

[Sombre]

Ok he's a pirate http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

But a pirate OGRE. With mor 30.

[Sombre]

Oh and bonus points to anyone who recognises the symbol on the Eastern Maneater's back-banner.

[Sombre]

Ok, the latest beta is up. Go to the first post to get it.

Attaching preview image to this post. Will then display on first post.

[llamabeast]

Preview looks very nice (although can't play it at the moment). Graphics are really awesome.

A couple of graphical comments if you don't mind (on the understanding that they'er all excellent anyway): The fourth guy down on the left (gnoblar gnoblar ogre OGRE) - his left hand looks a bit funny somehow. Kind of wasted. Don't know why. Also, maybe it should move in the attack sprite.

Why does the eastern whatsit have a red face? It kind of looks like he has antennae too, and I keep on seeing him as a telly tubby.

[Boron]

Thanks Sombre http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

Why are the maneaters so expensive though? 100 seems too pricey. 40-50 would be ok, but 100?

[Sombre]

llama: That ogre has a choppa in his right hand and an ironfist on his left. I could make the ironfist move in the attack sprite, but I've learned that spending too much effort on something people barely see outside of the preview isn't a great idea. I might redraw it if people think it looks fruity though. The Eastern Maneater is wearing a red kabuki mask. I could tone down the colour I guess.

Boron: If Maneaters were 40-50 I figure no-one would build anything but Maneaters. They are supposed to be rather rare, expensive and and situational units, not stuff you crank out every turn. What I might do is decrease their resource cost (they're basically mercenaries after all). I will decrease the gold cost if people don't build them though.

[Noble713]

Does dominion spread just like with Mictlan (i.e. blood sacrifice ONLY) or do prophets and temples work? My dominion grew a bit faster than I had expected, with only sacrifices in my capital.


I'm still trying to figure out how to play this nation, and really the game in general. At first I took the titan for an early SC rush, but then I wasted him researching...only to realise that researching isn't very important for Ogres. Likewise, I piled a bunch of blood magic on him...not too useful there either. I think I'll take another powerful Pretender and maybe try a bless strategy too. I don't want to take a stationary Pretender (seems contrary to the whole "nomadic" thing) and I don't want to take one of the human-sized ones either (too weedy for a nation of Ogres).

[Sombre]

I wouldn't try a bless strategy, because you don't have any sacred units, just two sacred commanders.

Dominion spreads with temples, prophet and god as normal with the nation. They can sacrifice too, but they can't preach (Butchers are priests in a sense, but certainly not preachers). So they're like Marverni or Lanka, only without preaching.

I took an awake rainbow mage in my most recent game with the Ogres and she did a little researching, just to get some construction, but she was basically there to forge some stuff later and most importantly, go find some indy mage sites. As soon as you have them, you can get the research going and if you have magic scale use Butchers to help out. But you're right, Ogres aren't research friendly at all. What they are great at is stomping stuff - if you can get some maneaters, tyrants, ironguts and a mass of bulls together with 3 or 4 slaughtermasters dropping Bullgorger, Toothcracker and Trollguts on them, you can trash almost anything (though high def sacreds may mess you up). I had several tyrants who were thugs with only a little bit of equipment extra - don't use them on their own, just mix them with the troops and tell them to attack closest - they keep morale up and still do some nasty damage when the bulls can't hit things.

[Noble713]

Sombre said:
I wouldn't try a bless strategy, because you don't have any sacred units, just two sacred commanders.



Forgot about that part....like I said, still learning the game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/redface.gif

Good advice though, thanks.

[Theonlystd]

Been playing as these guys.. And well im doing pretty well i've lost some battles since they are always starving and have a hard time hitting some stuff but overall they seem pretty balanced combat wise.

But really the nation donno seems to have nothing to do really.. I build a few ogres tell them to attack closest and move the army and my turn is pretty much done..


You think about maybe giving them access to just a bit of earth.. Just for bit of magic diversity for some thugging out of there thugs cause as it is currently you cant get them much equipment . Give there playing a bit of variety and more of a chance in Mp..

Donno if that jives at all with the Warhammer world.. But just a suggestion ..

[Sombre]

What to do?

Outside of combat; summon Gorgers, Yhetees and Sabretusks, desperately try to find some indy mages, use your pretender's magic to forge things, try to get your research going.

In combat; use your gut magic, gnoblar screeners, flanking, thug scripting, mixing in standards, maximising deathbelchers etc - usual combat stuff.

In the early game you'll do a lot of fairly straightforward province stomping. The trick being to use gut magic to make sure your ogres stay alive and hopefully affliction free, to rack up the exp. I don't think it's any more boring than other nations in this respect. You really shouldn't be starving your troops though. Sounds like you need to send hunters with them. In the next version the sabretusks and trappers will give a better supply boost to make them more important.

They're still in beta so they'll get a bit more complex, with scrap launchers, a bit more gut magic maybe and some more summons. But basically they are a straightforward race where the complications come from keeping supply up, combat strat and the very real danger of being obliterated in the middle / late game. You really have to have a very strong early / mid game with them, or you are toast, which leads to a bit of tension and a need to win every battle, imo.

So yeah, I fully admit that Ogres are about smashing face and that's about it. They have various ways to do it, but they will never change this basic plan - it just isn't in their nature.

Earth magic isn't totally out of the question, but it would be very minor - 25% chance of 1E on the slaughtermasters perhaps, representing their connection with the mountains / maw. This would allow for the forging of the earth/blood stones. Higher earth magic just wouldn't fit with the Ogres.

They'll get a sacred in future versions, but it isn't going to be one that makes you want to go dual bless or anything.

[Theonlystd]

O yea i summon stuff i like Yhetees but hard to get a decent gem income going.. Getting Research going has been really hard haha tho that was mostly my fault .

I pretty much ignore gnoblars after the first battle when they arent at full strength anymore they route to often. If i need some arrow fodder at the start i just put a few of the cheap ogre in the front ..


And i wouldnt say they are boring just didnt seem like they had alot to due compared to other nations.. Eh i didnt even notice the higher than expected supply bonus from the hunters i just assumed it was the standard 10 . They will be accompanying the army's more often now and hopefully free up some gems from the wine bags. And boost to supply bonus for those 2 would help ..


Ah well the ogres are qutie good at smashing in faces .. And if you have more stuff in the works my comments might of been a bit early ..

And that was the kind of magic bonus i was talking about nothing major or even for all mages..

[BandarLover]

First things first: Solid job as per usual, Sombre. You Warhammer mods are easily some of my favorite nations to play, love the Skaven, the Empire looks like it could be interesting and really like the Ogres...cept for the error I keep getting for it.

I've read thru the post and not seen anyone else having the same problem: Whenever I try to view a battle, a get an error that crashes the game, './skybox1.tga was empty' error message. This was the only mod running at the time, AND I re-downloaded the mod but get the same message.

It's still playable of course, I only see it when I try to watch a battle report...but man do I want to SEE my ogres in action!!

Keep up the good work Sombre. I patiently await work on a Greenskin mod?

[Sombre]

Okin's doing greenskins I believe.

I didn't change skybox tga at all and I don't think that can really be caused by the ogres. Sounds like dom3 is corrupted, perhaps? Try running scandisk on it or reinstalling or something.

[Humakty]

Just a comment : I found a funny strategy with them :
you put gnoblars trappers (those with supply..)with a hunter, and you end up with a stealthy supply troop, maybe a bit high on upkeep, but keeping your ogres healthy seems to be THE problem.
Sombre, if you don't stop modding, I'll send you some (french of course) player syndicalists, 'cause of the horrid testing rythm you force me to adopt.
Allas,greenskin doesn't seem to be ready yet, I should whip Okin harder. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif( he made me dream of a never ending Whaag..)

[Sombre]

Yep, the Hunters and Trappers can sneak around providing supplies. In the next version Sabretusks and Trappers will provide more supplies, to make up for the fact they eat them as well.

[rdonj]

Hey, I'm pretty well a dominions noob here (with some knowledge of warhammer, which drew me to this mod), so you can keep that in mind for this post...

I was trying your ogre kingdom mod earlier today against the computer playing skavens and I thought you might like feedback on how that played out. I had read through this thread so I knew a rainbow mage was probably a good idea, I took a sage with 4 nature, 3 astral and 3 blood (which I forgot would be pointless), 2 order, 1 sloth, 3 growth, and 3 drain. That drain hurt. Ogre Hunters really helped out, I had at least one or two with every army for most of the game, but my ogres were still eating so much it was hard to go on the offensive in provinces where all of my growth hadn't set in yet. They were quite stompy, though those tricksy skaven clanrats and gutter runners were a bit difficult for most of the ogres to hit. I had a hard time using deathbelchers effectively, as a very small unit or two of faster troops would frequently waste all their shots. I don't suppose you'd be inclined to raise their ammunition to 3 to offset that a little?

Maneaters (dual wielding) were mean. Once I started getting very many of them, the skaven were pretty much toast. They were almost invulnerable to the swarms of independent archers and pretty much every skaven unit they sent at me, and with their attack skill and multiple attacks the skaven were dying in droves. Very thematically accurate, but wow... they had no chance. Until I started using them though the incredible swarms of skaven they were sending at me were really hard to kill off, as I was mostly relying on ironguts at that point and they just didn't have the killing power to fight that many units at once. I'm sure they'd be great against larger opponents though. I would very highly suggest not lowering the cost of the maneaters. But I was playing in a 300x gold game, so I'm sure they were quite a bit more prolific than they would be normally.

I think being able to spread dominion normally and do blood sacrifices might be just a liiittle too strong. I only controlled a little over half the (60 province) map by the time the game was over and with temples and about... 5 or 6 gut mages sacrificing pretty much every turn, the rate my dominion was spreading was pretty ridiculous and the skaven's dominion evaporated. I didn't check the game's length but it was probably less than 3 years. As it was, I didn't really feel that the blood summons were worth it compared to spreading my dominion like hotcakes. And after I got Gift of Health up and 33 of the second Bull Ogre unit could defeat 200 man armies taking 0-1 losses, I pretty much laid magic to rest. It felt a lot more useful to make cauldrons of broth than it did to make yhetees....

Ogre prophets with Unequaled Obesity and a nature magic bless are crazy http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Sombre]

New version coming out fairly soon.

The attached image shows my work on the scraplauncher and very early work on the size of the Slavegiant. Is it too big though? It does seem a bit too thick, because it's en enlarged ogre body right now, basically.

[Sombre]

After a bit of argy bargy on the IRC channel, I decided to scale the giant down a bit.

This is the size I currently reckon is right. There are a few other big chaps standing around for comparison. Note the niefel is size 5, not 6.

[Sombre]

New version will be up momentarily. Here's a preview pic.

[Ballbarian]

Those look awesome Sombre!

[Sombre]

Ok it's now uploaded.

Ogre kingdoms still has a couple of unfinished graphics, lacks a bit of polish/testing and is missing all of its heroes, but its up there with my other stuff in terms of quality now. I think in the future it will rival Skaven, anyway.



-- Version 0.5

-- added ogre nametype 147

-- darkvision handed out, use of copystats removed

-- checked IDs against Skaven 0.9, CBM 1.21, Avernum 1.45 + others

-- made slave giants into commander units with no slots, improved their graphics


-- Version 0.4

-- Slavegiant, scrapapult, rhinox, pit fighter added

-- Gnoblar scout added

-- Anoint Mawtribe sacred summon

-- Many tweaks

[Sombre]

Oops.

There was a small conflict with my MA Skaven. I've fixed the download available at the start of the thread to sort this out. You'll need to redownload if you want to play MA Ogres and Skaven together. If not then don't worry about it.

[Sombre]

Damnit.

I missed some more conflicts between skaven and ogres.

I've uploaded 0.55 now, which I'm 99% sure gets it all fixed. So redownload if you want to use ogres and skaven at the same time. Thanks.

[Sombre]

I'm working on a hero at the moment. A slaver of living and undead who is himself a little of both.

The graphic isn't quite finished, but nearly there. It's attached.

[Foodstamp]

Very cool. How is he going to attack dragging those slaves around? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Sombre]

Same way he got the chains off the wall when he was imprisoned, he'll swing them around until things break.

Seriously though he has 3 attacks. Fleshflayer his magic weapon causes additional weakness and does 13 nostr damage, he then gets ogre smash str based attack and finally he gets a 'dark chains' attack which has secondaryeffect of enslave mind. I originally had the twin spear effect as a secondaryeffect so stuff he killed turned into soulless (and it worked, amazingly) but I decided that would be cooler in some other mod if a recruitable unit used it as a straight up weapon.

So in this case the slaves are just decorative. He does spawn and command lots of nice slave chaff though, which when it dies automatically becomes soulless.

[Sombre]

Ok, 0.6 is up.

-- version 0.6

-- CONTENT - Added Hero 'Slavelord Braugh' and his slaves, plus his two weapons

-- FIX - Fort types checked and changed

-- TWEAK - Sacred pitfighter +10 goldcost

-- TWEAK - Bruiser and Tyrant commanders -10 goldcost each

-- TWEAK - Slavegiant gets siegebonus 5

-- FIX - added the missing mountainsurvival to gnoblar units

-- TWEAK - deathbelcher weapon better, unit +4 goldcost

-- TWEAK - gave yhetee coldpower 2


It's attached to the first post as always.

Attached to this post is just a preview pic.

[Shovah32]

Just so that you know, I'm in love with ScrapLaunchers.
When I have enough to kill fairly large groups of tower shield holding, plate hauberk wearing abysian infantry is that too many? c:

Thanks for all the great work Sombre. And I'm glad pitfighters got a slightly higher cost - they are crazy with a decent bless. N9? That gives them 5 regeneration a turn and +6 berserk. +6. When they go berserk that's 3 attacks each at attack 17(16 for the smash) and strength 22, with their attacks doing damage: 27, 27, 21 respectively.
I've had single berserk pitfighters take out entire squares of enemies in a single turn - almost no regular troops will stand up to them on a square-by-square basis.
Throw in Bullgorger and maybe bloodgruel and the only thing that has any chance of stopping these guys is something that targets their MR.
One of my favourite things about these guys? They can make use of any bless. Okay, unless you're taking it to level 9 and combining it with bloodgruel to fight a blood nation air might be a bit useless, but even death/blood blesses help these guys(death: kills SCs. blood: kills everything).

The best part? ScrapLaunchers work perfectly with these guys. Sure, the pitfighters don't need much help killing things, but what do they need? Yes, they need incredibly inaccurate, low damage friendly fire that will send them berserk before battle so that their regeneration can kick in and heal them back up while they prance around tougher than fully armoured knights.

Slave Giants are absolute beasts. Incredibly vunerable(my prophet with his N9 bless being slightly less so) compared to alot of ogre units, but absolutely devastating. They are a little too expensive/vunerable to risk against any decently damaging chaff, but if you let these guys get near the enemy elites then there's a pretty good chance that your enemy will cry while watching the battle replay. That is a good thing.

[Sombre]

Try dropping trollguts and toothcracker on a slave giant. Toughens them up considerably. It does take quite an investment though. Don't put bullgorger on them, it just makes them better at accidentally killing themselves (they can do that even swinging at a lone militia).

Bullgorger actually works great with hordes of gnoblars.

I'm still tweaking pitfighters and scraplaunchers, because they're pretty easy to make overpowered.

[Shovah32]

Toothcraker does what? Give them two extra protection. Nice, but not great. I agree on the trollguts for giants and bullgorger for gnoblars though.

[llamabeast]

Map for ThreeWay blitz.

[llamabeast]

Map for TwoWay blitz.

[Sombre]

Toothcracker doesn't give two extra protection. It gives stone skin. I'm pretty sure that's a substantial increase to the giants natural prot.

[HoneyBadger]

Beautiful mod, as always, Sombre. A thousand thank-yous for all your very hard, very talented, work. Do you ever use a lightpen or are you amongst the ranks who have tragically been crippled by the infamous "point and click" torture?

By the way, since the AI isn't using slave giants very effectively, I was wondering if maybe you'd given some thought to having a different version of Ogre Kingdoms for the AI. The AI could maybe get a special unit in place of the Slave Giant (with no need to redo the artwork), that *will* run up to the enemy (with a high movement, so it gets a good head start), dies quickly (1 hp, 0 prot.), and then transforms into a Slave Giant.

[Sombre]

I don't have a tablet or anything special for doing graphics. I use Paint Shop Pro and a mouse. I'm not an artistically talented person, but I am happy with some of the unit graphics I've managed to churn out, particularly in this mod. The Slaughtermaster, Western Maneater and Braugh the Slavelord are favourites of mine.

As for an AI version of the giant, yeah, it wouldn't be too hard. The best idea might just be to have the slavegiant as a recruitable rather than a commander, in the AI version.

[HoneyBadger]

Well, you definitely have a talent for translating pixels into good looking units, quickly and effectively.

I love the slave giants, by the way. I've got one that's still alive and well, with fully seven disabilities. Having lost both eyes and bearing a limp, he's still an effective unit, having obtained the heroic cause fear ability.

Are you planning to individualize the heroic slave giants, by the way? I was a little disappointed to learn that they're almost identical to the regular unit. Still a great unit to get for free, but lacks some of the specialness that a hero's supposed to have. Maybe the heroes could get an armor slot? If it wasn't filled, it would give the ogres more of an impetus to put some research into Construction, without immediately boosting the power of the unit.

[Sombre]

They aren't heroes, they're multiheroes. They won't be available at all when I add the rest of the national heroes, they were just a stand in until then.

[HoneyBadger]

ohhh, gotcha. I got that they were multiheroes, I just figured they were a feature, rather than a stand-in.

[Sombre]

I'm going to update this one next. It will get totally reorganised ID numbers, a new national hero and various tweaks.

One of the major changes is the removal of the bonus Ogre Smash attack on Ogres with two weapons (other than the tyrant who is big enough to do all three). Of course I will reduce cost in line with this.

Edit: So if you have any suggestions make them ASAP so I can try and work them into the next version. I will also include an "AI Ogre Kingdoms" nation mod which is the same nation but altered to provide a very strong AI opponent.

[Sombre]

Ok the new version is up on the first page.

Note that it includes a mod called "AI Ogre Kingdoms" which is an AI friendly version of the nation designed to give a bit more challenge in SP without being too crazy.

Also please do delete your old version of Ogre Kingdoms before installing this. It now goes in a different directory and the dm has a different name, so it won't overwrite.

-- Version 0.7

-- FIX - Reordered ID numbers to avoid future conflicts with basegame

-- TWEAK - Altered Eastern Maneater graphic slightly

-- TWEAK - Slightly decreased scraplauncher cost and increased range

-- TWEAK - Increased price of yhetee and gorger summons

-- TWEAK - Giants get one misc slot

-- TWEAK - Improved PD

-- CONTENT - Added first prophet national hero

-- TWEAK - Ogres with two weapons now don't get Ogre Smash and have had their cost tweaked accordingly

-- FIX - Changed name and epithet to better fit dominions

-- FIX - Changed name of dm and mod folder to fit my conventions

-- FIX - Starting scout is now a butcher, since they have dying dom

[WraithLord]

That's great http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

You might want to edit the first post name to 0.7...

[Sombre]

Ah thanks, have done so.

I eagerly await feedback on the nation. It's getting very close to being 100% finished now. Just a few more tweaks and 3 more heroes in the future.

Oh and Rhinox Cavalry.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/rhinoxc.htm

[Alderanas]

ooo i like the sound of rhinox cavalry. any hint of what the other 3 will be.

[Sombre]

Skrag the Slaughterer, Prophet of the Great Maw
Greasus Goldtooth, Overtyrant
Golfag Maneater, Mercenary Captain

[HoneyBadger]

Greasus is the one I'm most excited about.

[Sombre]

Why Greasus? His graphic is a pain in the ***, that's for sure (he's carried into battle by a horde of gnoblars). Though I'm not sure exactly what interesting powers I can give him. Clearly he's going to be a thug with extremely high HP,... and probably autosummon troops to represent his ridiculous wealth,.. but other than that I don't know.

[Baneslave]

Hmm, Greasus could (IMHO) have:
- Size 4 or 5, preferably 5
- Trample and / or special AOE 1 Ogre Smash
- AOE 1 weapon (he has strength 10 in tabletop and has a huge scepter artefact)
- Humongous leadership cabablities
- Fear
- Standard effect
- Higher glutton than normal ogres
- Order increasing ability

[Sombre]

That order increasing ability is a nice idea, but I'm not sure if there are any basegame units I can copy that from.

He will certainly have a powerful built in aoe attack with his scepter(rather than trample), maxed out leadership, very high standard, fear, very high hp, high gluttony and size 5.

Slotswise he'll probably have 1 body and 3 misc (he loves the bling).

[HoneyBadger]

I dunno why I like Greasus, maybe because he's so enormously fat that he can't hardly move without his sceptre, which grants him badass magical/physical prowess. He's kind of like a combination Jabba the Hutt and Darth Vader, all rolled into one big greasy ball.

[Alderanas]

sounds good lookin forward to them.

[rdonj]

There's only one thing that kind of bugs me about the ogres. I find it really hard to justify ever building the eastern style Maneaters. I'm not sure if I just don't see it or what, but it seems they're pretty much just slightly better Ironguts and are almost 3 times as expensive. I think the only time I'd build one is if I really wanted to increase the morale of a squad of Ironguts. The western maneaters are so good though, and even easier to produce, that spending the money on the eastern version instead just doesn't seem worth it.

Looking forward to the new heroes http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Sombre]

Good point. I think I'll give them magic weapons in the next version, which will make them a bit special.

They are significantly better than ironguts though. Ironguts have real problems hitting stuff whereas Eastern Maneaters can hit extremely accurately and extremely hard. They also cost a lot less resources, of course.

Oh and in the latest version Western Maneaters have lost Ogre Smash so they're down to 2 attacks, same as Eastern Maneaters. Of course that's 2 good attacks as opposed to 1 good one 1 bad one.

[rdonj]

Sombre said:
Good point. I think I'll give them magic weapons in the next version, which will make them a bit special.



I like this idea. Much better way of enhancing their usefulness than what I was thinking....

At the moment I'm playing a game using the last version before the most recent update. I believe attack and defense is at 10/7 for Ironguts, 12/12 for western Maneaters, and 12/10 for the eastern Maneaters. I tend to think of 10 as fairly average and 12 as being decent, so it is an improvement. I just personally think of Ironguts as damage sponges so it doesn't bother me too much that they don't have lots of attack skill. If I think of them as Ironguts that can kill things that does help a bit.... It was just problematic with westerners doing so much more damage and not being much more killable skewing things.

Getting rid of the western Maneater Ogre Smash attack also helps the easterners a bit. They might earn their keep now.

[rdonj]

And on a completely unrelated note, you've got to love names like "squigface" and "grotcrusher" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Alderanas]

hah those good but the best ones ive seen are fartsniffer and buttface. I was surprised to see those as names.

[Sombre]

Hahah. That's ogres for you. Ogre names don't change from when they're first given, so if a young ogre picks his nose and eats it he'll be snotbiter even if he becomes the overtyrant of all the kingdoms. He'll be Mansmasher Deathbellow Snotbiter, but still essentially Snotbiter.

[Alderanas]

haha yea the names are hilarious

[Murder]

my friend actually thinks that ogre kingdom mod is overpowered =(

and not suitable for normal games

he is currently using the new jomon mod with fox/dog samurai and those regenerating fox ogre things lol

[rdonj]

I don't think it is, honestly. They have strong troops, sure, but they have completely abysmal research ability and almost no magic diversity. If he thinks Ogre Kingdoms is overpowered... try playing chaos undivided against him sometime http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif

[Sombre]

I don't think they're overpowered. I think carefully about the balance of Ogre Kingdoms because I want them to be about smashing face and bad at research, but I don't want them to be a 'facehugger' nation where they're all early game and nothing else because those are annoying to play in mp and wreck the game.

I'm still considering adding a little something else to allow more in the way of research and diversity without ruining the theme. Possibly gnoblar shamans with a chance of a single point in F/E/D/N, but also a chance of getting nothing,.. however that's quite a departure from the established army list.

[rdonj]

Maybe some sort of Goblin slave mages? I admit that's stretching things a bit too. It's almost more likely you'd end up with a human mage from a mercenary outfit or some such.

[Mordici]

what about some sort of national summons that the Ogre shamans could cast to get some researching demons/sprits?

[Sombre]

I'm quite keen on giving the Ogres some demons and though we'd be talking about stuff that goes beyond the armylist, I don't mind that so much for powerful spells.

In Warhammer terms they would be demons but not of the traditional 4 chaos powers, rather from the malign energy of the Maw and the Ogres' belief in it.

But I'm not sure how well this would help balance the nation out. They do already have a powerful SC chassis in the form of the Tyrant and giving them diverse magic through the demons doesn't seem right, because as Bloodthrirsters don't have magic, you would think Ogre Demons wouldn't either.

Another possibility is for me to add a 6th hero after Greasus, Skrag and Golfag who is an Ogre Sorceror from Cathay, with powerful magic.

[Mordici]

I do agree that with the amount of "hulk smash" the ogres already have, lots magic research could very well unbalance the nation. With that in mind the idea of one magic using ogre with good research and magic picks in something other than blood would be a perfect solution. I always have a soft spot for heros, as I feel they add so much to the character and fun factor of any nation in Dominions!

So my vote is for a sixth hero http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[HoneyBadger]

I don't know if you'd consider it, but it might be slightly more thematic if the slave giants themselves had a low chance of gaining 1 point in Air magic, since they're supposed to be the inbred and degraded scions of the Sky Giants, from what I understand. Maybe once in a great while, one of them breeds true?

[Sombre]

Slave giants are even more stupid and basic than normal giants, due to repeated clubbing to the head and general mistreatment. We're talking an intelligence level somewhere between an orc and a troll here. I'm also not sure that the Sky Giants would have had any inherent magic either. They were definitely more intelligent and they might have had mages, since they had some sort of civilisation, but I'm guessing the mages would have had to study and train like most. Slave Giants obviously have zero opportunity to study or train at anything other than A) being chained to the floor and B) Smashing things on the rare occasion they are let loose.

Besides which who would build a 400 gold unit for 1 point of air magic? The only thing he could use it for is the lowest level self buffs.

[HoneyBadger]

Well, they already have poor research, which I think reflects the generally low IQ and poor test results of the Ogre Kingdom as a whole http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif The air magic would reflect an inherant affinity, rather than skill or training. They'd just be predisposed towards air, occasionally, like Trolls are to earth.

And you'd still be paying 400 gold for the Slave Giant, it just would maybe make you stop and think a little bit more about them, if you got the occasional one with air magic.

I'd definitely give the Slave Giants a great big negative research bonus (who's going to use them for researching, anyway?), but it's an opportunity for the nation to have a different outlet for whatever the Ogres *do* research, so while it might not directly influence their researching a whole lot, it might give them more reason to bother.

[Sombre]

I have some plans to update Ogre Kingdoms, whose great weakness from lack of research and spellcasting still needs more counterbalancing.

I don't want to make them super powerful early game, awful late game because that isn't going to be any fun to play with or against. They will retain their early game bias of course, but I want to allow them a late game strat by granting them two new things.

Firstly I'm going to give them mawpit summons which will cause domspread. This will allow them to try and win via dompush, representing the power of the maw becoming so great that it consumes a whole region.

Secondly I'm going to give them some expensive but devastating maw demon summons, which will allow them to complete wreck enemy territory, give them an anti magic tool (high res and resistances) and highlight the fact that Ogres are essentially agents of an apocalyptic devouring force. These 'Mawbominations' are just wrecking balls, not thugs. They'll have no leadership, magic or slots and they'll auto berserk in combat. If I can I also want to make them crazy like tartarianss.

[llamabeast]

That all sounds excellent Sombre.

[rdonj]

The ogres do definitely need something to help them last longer, their lack of magic is a huge handicap if your opponent has decent battle magic. Winning by dompush seems pretty viable at least on smallish maps such as, say, ossya. With a good early game you would have plenty of land to build temples and sacrifice in and combining a summon to help that sounds pretty nasty. The 'Mawbominations' could be useful, but they have to be able to hit pesky high defense things. I suppose if they auto-berserk they probably will be able to. But I think the ogres almost have too low of attack skill in general. I know they're not really supposed to be above average in skill, but they're almost below average due to the size disadvantage. A few of them have multiple attacks which does help, but I'm not sure it helps quite enough.

Is Rhinox cavalry still in the works?

[Sombre]

I think you're just judging Ogre fighting skill from that one encounter with your sacreds in warhammerama - when I saw the bless on your guys I wasn't surprised at all you won that battle. But those were a handful of regular bulls and Ogres have plenty of ways to hit high defence units, believe me. Their own sacreds, maneaters, gnoblar swarms, gorgers (due to berserk and multiple attacks) and of course Slave Giants with their aoe attacks.

Rhinox Cavalry are still in the works, but when I tried to do the graphic it kept coming out goofy, so I'm not in a hurry to do them.

'Mawbominations' will almost certainly have trample or aoe attacks.

[Sombre]

And yes, Ogres are supposed to have below average skill. In warhammer they have the same weapon skill as a human and lower initiative, so they're less skilled.

[rdonj]

That one encounter is part of where it's coming from, yes. But high defense units do seem to be hard on the ogres. Once you get thugs going I suspect that won't really be the case anymore though. You're right though, my thinking on this is probably slightly skewed since I've only actually fought ogres with high defense sacreds.

I wasn't thinking about the lower initiative, I guess that makes sense.

[HoneyBadger]

For some reason your graphic preview has disappeared, Sombre.

[Sombre]

Free image hosting has a time limit I suppose.

It would be nice if shrapnel just gave us sensible png allowances, but I'm not holding my breath.

[llamabeast]

If you want to stick it on my server let me know.

[Sombre]

My latest thought is that I'm going to give slaughtermasters a 100% DFE. This will make them slightly better at research (not so much it really matters though), will allow them a little bit of site searching (again, negligible) and a little bit of forging. It will also differentiate them somewhat in terms of some summons I'm giving Ogres.

B3E1 = Dig Mawpit. A mawpit is an immobile commander much like a monolith or sacred statue, though it has not slots. It has H2 allowing it to blood sacrifice in place of a slaughtermaster (note ogres cannot preach). It will also have domspread 1. Of course in combat it will be useless. You dig these to get upkeep free blood sacrificers and to push your dom, which will be the ogres new mid and lategame strat.

B3F1 = Summon Mawfiend. A mawfiend is an ogre sized demon born from the inferno of the maw's arrival. More details on these a bit later.

B4D1 = Abomination of the Maw. These are the aformentiond 'mawbominations'. They kill the populace at an alarming rate, are masters of pillaging and in combat are virtually unstoppable wrecking balls, with high mr, multiple attacks (with drain), amazing prot etc. They will be size 4, but don't be confused, they could tear a slavegiant in half. The drawbacks is they have either insanity or shattered soul, cost a lot and have no slots. The premise is they are there to unleash on the world in the lategame, trashing enemy territory (and temples) and facilitating a win through sheer stompyness or domspread.

[llamabeast]

Sounds good.

I think you want to be careful with domspread 1. If the things are cheapish, you could spam them ridiculously. It might be better to have them holy 3 with no domspread, so that you can only have one per province producing dominion.

The difficulty with Ogres is like you were saying the other day, that they don't grow much more powerful as the game goes on. Your abomination of the maw sounds good for that, but how are they going to research it? My worry is that having a powerful rainbow research pretender gives an ogre nation such a ridiculous advantage that it becomes non-optional. An ogre nation with a rainbow pretender might will be able to reach the high level summons in half as many turns as one without.

[Sombre]

That is true, however the abomination will be limited not only by research level (which will still be one ogres can reach without a dedicated pretender) as it will also have fairly high cost in blood slaves and it will require a boosted slaughtermaster in order to get it. Possibly even B5D1.

I did consider making the mawpits simple H3 blood sacrificers, but I'm not hugely keen on them casting divine bless and smite during battles. They still wouldn't give Ogres a legitimately frightening dompush ability either imo. Whatever I choose to do with them, I'll make sure they cost an appropriate amount. After all if you have to spend a lot of blood slaves on them, that's necessarily less of your nasty troops you're fielding.

Another option and one that feels like something of a cop out, is giving ogres a national 'mercenary mage' commander with inflated cost (for what he does) but access to more paths (probably like F1 with 100% FEA and 100% FEAWSD). The butcher remains a better longterm researcher, but these guys would be better for rushing to a certain spell. I don't want to do that though because it's quite lame, no matter how I justify it.

Regarding the rainbow pretender - yes, he is a clear choice for ogres and thematically that's a bit annoying. However it's good in a way that they can make full use of a slightly odd pretender pick like an awake great sage that does research.

[llamabeast]

Maybe instead of a mercenary mage you could have some maw demon summon which is quite magically powerful? That would add a bit more late-game scaling.

I realise that wouldn't solve the research issue though. Maybe you could reduce their research malus a bit?

[Sombre]

I could, but it's a pretty major feature of the race, the fact they can't research worth a damn.

This is going to come up with dwarfs as well, because they don't even use magic in Warhammer. The idea is that since Ogres will really only want to research blood and construction, the research malus isn't such a crippling problem,.. I guess the same could be somewhat true of dwarfs,... well I'll think of something clever.

I'm definitely giving Ogres a hero with some nice magic - an Ogre Mage trained in the courts of Cathay after his intellect was dramatically enhanced through their advanced eastern alchemy.

In terms of magical diversity, they have the heliophagii I guess, along with whatever their pretender can summon. With the extra minor paths on slaughtermasters they should have a little more chance of branching also.

They pose a tricky problem. I'll implement the changes I've thought up and see how they play with those. The graphic for the abominations is going to have to be something special though.

[HoneyBadger]

I like that the Ogres struggle, magically. I think they should-it's a big part of what makes them interesting as a Nation. Dom3 already has (compared to it's unit and Nation diversity) an extremely limited magic system, in that there's only 8 paths, total. And most Nations are already able to get atleast *some* access to most if not all of the paths, without Pretender interference.

Adding in bootstrapping, empowerment, booster items, the ability to convert Astral to other gem types, etc. and having 8 separate magical paths loses a lot of it's meaning.

[Sombre]

Here is the latest thinking on the Ogre upgrade:

The idea is to add a daemonic/chaos influence to Ogres which matches what blood magic does in dom3 and makes them more interesting mid and late game. When the Great Maw impacted it unleashed a huge amount of energy and the area around it, known as the wastes, is still rife with Chaotic energy. I'm not changing the story of the maw and saying it's a chunk of warpstone or anything, but it is, at least in part, of Chaos. Countering this is the more shamanic mountains/wilds magic of the Ogres' new home which has roots far back before the impact of the Maw.

Slaughtermasters: Will now be H2B3 with EF50%. In recent years Slaughtermasters have begun to split into 3 types. Normal vanilla ones (1/2 with just B3), those with a connection to earth from which the Maw emerged (1/4 with E1) and those with a connection to the burned wasteland and chaos fallout around the maw (1/4 with F1). The earth enabled SMs can dig new mawpits. The fire enabled SMs can bind Henchfiends and later even Fiends of the Waste. This change is done.

Mawpits: Immobile holes in the ground surrounded by jutting teeth/bones/rocks. They are simply H3 and 0 gold upkeep making them fantastic for blood sacrificing and little else. I'm hoping to stop them from smiting/banishing somehow. Their summoning cost in terms of blood slaves is reasonably low, they don't need to be researched and Ogre temples are incredibly cheap (100 gold) since they can't preach or anything. Code is done, graphic is currently a placeholder and might be that way for a while.

Henchfiends: Researchers (by Ogre standards) with B1 + DF100% magic, they allow the Ogre Kingdoms to channel blood slave income into research, but still the nation won't have good research unless you /really/ push for it. They are spined demons with robes and are completely inedible (even by Ogre standards). They appear to SMs who are compelled to roam the wastes around the maw and offer power in exchange for blood spilled on the blackened sands. They are then bound to the SMs and do their bidding, patiently exerting influence on the Ogres as a race. They aren't sacred because they aren't 'orthodox' children of the maw. I've done the code for these guys, I'll just give them a simple graphic and they're done.

Fiends of the Waste: Badasses. These are Ogre sized daemons of magical and physical prowess. Think somewhere below a heliophagii or Verminlord in stats (at least D2F2B2 magic) They are somewhat ogrish but have no mouth, many eyes, horns and the trademark backward knees. It is rare for a SM to bind one - only Groth Onefinger the hero has bound several - and they require a vast sacrifice of burned bodies to summon. Again they are a corrupting influence on the Ogre race, drawing it towards chaos, and aren't sacred. I want to do a tasty graphic for them so they'll take a while.

Yhetee Shamans: Summonable by N2 hunters. These are shamans of the mountainous wilds with low nature, earth and water magic (I'm thinking W1N1E1 + 100% WNE). Their research isn't handicapped like Ogres but isn't great. The attractive thing about them is they get three nice national spells to cast - cold immunity buff for Ogres, a spray of ice/rock shards and a howl which attracts sabretusks rather than wolves (if possible to code). I've coded them, the graphic is easy but I haven't done the spells, though those shouldn't take long.

Abominations of the Maw: A straightforward blood summon at the top end of the gut magic/gorgers/mawtribe spectrum. I've talked about these guys before. Total juggernauts, also with dom spread. They are out of the box SCs that you can't do anything to upgrade (no slots) and will be economical, but straightforward (no flight etc). They make the world dread dealing with you because they are extremely destructive (causing unrest, pop death etc). I have almost finished the code, the graphic will take a while. I think I'm going to have them be slavegiants who were dragged to the Maw, forced to gaze upon it and covered in armour/weapons much like pitfighters. So they'll be size 6 and all that.

Mawgut: Another commander summon in the maw/gut magic line (so blood + holy). Butchers who have given themselves over the the Maw - their gut splits open and becomes a maw like mouth which they must feed. Consequently they grow much, much fatter. They are B4 H3 with berserk, great hp and regen + an awesome devour attack which also drains life. They also spread dom and tend to eat population. No research from these. I've started the graphic, the code is nearly done.


Feedback plox!

[llamabeast]

All sounds very awesome, dramatic and appropriately scary to me, although the Mawgut sounds a bit yucky!

Suggestion on how to prevent the Mawpit casting battle spells: Create a spell called Fatigue Self or something which does that - hits the caster with a load of fatigue damage, e.g. 180. Then set #onebattlespell Fatigue Self for the Mawpit, so that in battle it will always be asleep. You could also give it negative reinvig, if that works (like clockwork horrors) so that it doesn't wake up in long battles.

[Burnsaber]

If you want to prevent the Mawpits from being useful in combat, here's some ideas:

1) you could give them ridiculous encumberance and negative reinvogration -5 so that once they pass out the from the spellcasting, fatigue they regain from resting is negated by the reinvogration. But that's kinda hacky and unaesthetic solution.

2)I'd probably make them #onebattlespell a custom spell that would give them 100 fatigue combined with the negative reinvogration, but since that requies some hacking, I can understand if you don't want go that route.

3) Give them 1hp and secondaryshape with weaker magic. Then give the firstshape poisoncloud and no poisonres so that it will kill itself on the first turn. Or #onebattlespell that will make it kill itself (like Shockwave or something like that).

EDIT: Ninja'd by Llama!

[Gregstrom]

Why not just have reinvig -100? Fatigue from negative reinvig seems to be capped at 200, so the mawpit wouldn't die of fatigue from it.

[Sombre]

If banishment, sermon of courage, blessing and smite aren't 100 prec (and thus automatic hit) I think giving it 0 prec might stop if from casting any of them. I don't mind it divine blessing.

[Gregstrom]

Smite is 100 prec, I'm afraid.

[Sombre]

Would it cause any problems if I reduced smite to 99 prec?

[llamabeast]

Hmm, so I have been messing around.

It turns out you can't #onebattlespell to either kill yourself in a non-poisony way, or fatigue yourself. Or at least I couldn't make it work. This is very sad indeed.

Further, it turns out that you can't set encumbrance over 99. Poo.

The only way I can think of, which is nasty, is to onebattlespell 1 poison damage (I can give you code for that if you want), have only 1 hp, and have a second form with negative magicboost. This is fine, apart from the fact that the main form has to have only 1 hp, which is very odd looking. It does, however, work properly both in offense and defense.

The alternative is to set encumbrance to 99, and have it cast no more than 2 spells/battle.

[llamabeast]

Gosh, lots of posts since I started testing.

If you don't mind it Divine Blessing, then it probably isn't horrible for it to do a couple of smites either, so long as it doesn't keep smiting all battle. So giving it 99 encumbrance might be the best option.

If you give it negative reinvig then its fatigue keeps on growing without limit (far beyond 200), but does it no actual damage. So that's an option, but it's displeasing to me.

You could try setting smite to 99 precision. I personally would not be too keen on that, because it means the mod is changing things which are outside of its supposed sphere of influence. I think precision 100 actually means something special (always hit the target, or perhaps only always hit the target square), so 99 is qualitatively different. Also, do you think it would actually stop it casting it? It won't have much else to do.

99 encumbrance might be justifiable thematically. Say the energies building up in the pit all can be released in spells at the start of a battle but are soon exhausted.

[Burnsaber]

Hmm, so I have been messing around.

It turns out you can't #onebattlespell to either kill yourself in a non-poisony way, or fatigue yourself. Or at least I couldn't make it work. This is very sad indeed.


That's probably because the AI thinks that damagespell on yuorself isn't that hot and refuses to cast. I don't know if onebattlespells are optional, but I got that problem numereous time when doing CPCS. The workaround is to make the mainspell some insignificant buff (like Haste or something) and #nextspell the damage. IMHO, that should work.

Edit: In conclusion, when you want to fool the casting AI, #nextspells are the way to go. It could also be possible to make a spell that AI would "simply" love and spam like there's no tomorrow. Don't see much uses for that kind of spell thought.

[Sombre]

I believe, though I may be wrong, that once you have 0 prec (due to being blinded for instance) you can /only/ cast 100 prec stuff. So I wanted to set the mawpit to 0 prec to stop him casting anything but divine bless, which would be 100 prec. At 99 prec smite would still hit 99.9999999999999% of the time, but you're right it would be slightly different.

I don't mind them smiting that much I guess, it just seems like it could be quite annoying. I'm trying to make them something you want 1 of in several provinces but never have any reason to have more than 1 of in a province. So no slave generation, no preaching, no domspread, no banish spam,... smite,.. maybe isn't a big problem. 99 enc is fine with me for that reason.

[Gregstrom]

Hmm. Can you have a #onebattlespell that provides a penalty to magic levels, like (foo) power but in reverse?

[llamabeast]

I was wondering that Gregstrom, but I don't think you can.

Burn, good thinking. I'd test it now but I'm just leaving to go away for a couple of days. I might have a go when I get back, because having an effective "battle form" (via onebattlespell Kill Self and a secondshape) would be a handy thing generally.

[Sombre]

Ogre Butcher Hero and current Prophet of the Maw: Skrag the Slaughterer.

Which looks better - with Gnoblar or without? Yes, that's a chef's hat.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com//attachment.php?attachmentid=7885&stc=1&d=1236456272

[BandarLover]

With the Gnoblar, please! Glad to see Ogres getting some (more) love.

[llamabeast]

With gnoblar!

[Theonlystd]

i get bad start site when i try to use the newist version?

[Burnsaber]

i get bad start site when i try to use the newist version?

I was able to start a game fine. Sounds like a mod conflict. Perhaps it's the Magic Site mod? Holy War: Divine also adds some magic sites.

[rdonj]

Also if you play with the Lizardmen mod and the Ogres, they share a startsite number so you'll have the error with both mods enabled at once.

[Sombre]

Yeah it's easily fixed though, just change the site numbers. Obviously it will fixed in the next version :]

[Sombre]

So I'm currently working on the big Ogre update I've had planned forever. I won't release it until they have:

Skrag hero *
Henchfiend researcher / low level mage summon *
Yhetee Shaman summon *
Mawpit immobile blood saccer summon
Mawfiend thug / mid level mage summon
Mawgut thug/raider summon (kills caster)

Those marked with * are finished already.

They have also received a serious recosting of their troops - their guys are now bargains, with around 15% off most gold prices. The non mage commanders are also a lot cheaper.

[Sombre]

Mawgut WiP.

The caster takes a chunk of flesh from the mouth of the Great Maw itself and swallows it. Mere hours later, his digestive system is torn apart, his ribs crack open and his belly splits to reveal a horrifying maw. Mawguts are basically possessed ex-Slaughtermasters who live only to devour. Population, smaller units, their own hands when they stray too close, hostile magic - all devoured. They're really, really hard to kill with superb mr, loads of hp, reinvig and regen. Spread dominion and have a serious fear stat also. But they're slow and don't have good slots and they're mindless, and they aren't subtle, so they can be dealt with. Trick is doing so before you lose several provinces and a chunk of population to them.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=8424&d=1246567845

[kianduatha]

That Mawgut sounds awesome--I can't wait to try it out. The whole nation has this "what more could you want?" feel to it, where it's almost hard to decide what to research.

[Joelz]

This nation is truly awesome :D I can't believe what I've missed trying it this late.
By the way, do we report possible typos or bugs here? If so, I would like to notify about Gorgers description's part where it says "waprstone-laced". I believe it is suppose to say "warpstone-laced". If not, then my apologies :)
The Butcher hero looks great, I would prefer the one with the gnoblar.

[Sombre]

Thanks Joelz, I'll fix that typo for the next version. The update they get next will be pretty substantial and change the way Ogres are played by giving them more of a midgame.

I'm glad you've enjoyed it!

[Sombre]

All continues well with the Ogres. Testing shows in the next update their ability to dompush will be top tier, up there with LA Marig.

I'm working on the Mawfiends right now, who will be thuggy demons with decent fire/death magic.

[Trumanator]

What makes LA Marig so good at dom pushing, besides the H3s and inquisitors? Can they sacrifice?

[llamabeast]

Yep, they can.

[Sombre]

Work in progress. The mawfiend in the middle has two versions - which looks better?

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=8549&stc=1&d=1248384877

[BandarLover]

IMO the Mawfiend whose hands and feet are covered in blood looks the best. Plus it is just more thematic :D

[llamabeast]

Squeamish as I am, I agree with Burn.

Looking good.

[chrispedersen]

Work in progress. The mawfiend in the middle has two versions - which looks better?

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=8549&stc=1&d=1248384877

Dissent - One on the left is brighter, cleaner, easier to see. The build is sinister as it is.. I think the art is better without the blood.

Its a strong sprite.

[rdonj]

For what it's worth I like the bloody-handed one... I'm going to agree with bandarlover also, it feels more thematic.

Although, looking at it next to a normal ogre, it seems a bit... lacking in bulk? I mean, obviously a lot of the ogre's bulkiness is in fat, but despite how nasty the mawfiend looks, it looks just a bit wimpy when put up next to an ogre.

[Sombre]

Please don't download the file attached to this post - this is for testing purposes.

The update to the mod with come within a few hours and will appear on the first post. I'll let you know when I upload it.

[Sombre]

Version 0.8 is finally up and it's a pretty huge update in terms of gameplay - now I think Ogres have a decent midgame and hell, maybe even a lategame if they really crank the blood and have a strong pretender.

GO GET IT ON THE FIRST POST.

Please do feel free to comment on anything regarding the mod - without feedback there's no way I'd be able to keep modding effectively.


-- version 0.8

-- TWEAK - Gorger Pitfeast B3 -> B4

-- TWEAK - Scrapapult goldcost 170 -> 150

-- CONTENT - Mawfiend summon added

-- CONTENT - Mawpit summon added for B3E1, H3 blood saccer, no slots, no upkeep

-- CONTENT - Mawgut summon/transformation added

-- TWEAK - Braugh's weapon now raises those it slays

-- CONTENT - Yhetee shaman summon added

-- CONTENT - Skrag the Slaughterer hero added

-- TWEAK - Tyrants reduced to 80 leadership

-- TWEAK - Slaughtermasters get FE 100% pick

-- TWEAK - Gnoblar single recruits added as option, new 'flung scrap' missile weapons

-- TWEAK - New costs for commanders in line with new philosophy

-- TWEAK - Reduced costs of most recruits

-- CONTENT - Henchfiend summon added as researcher with access into death/fire

-- TWEAK - Ogre Temples, being pits in the ground, now only 100 gold

-- TWEAK - Butcher and Slaughtermaster mr boosts

-- TWEAK - Gnoblar got some patrolbonus to reflect their multiunit status

[Ballbarian]

Looks fantastic Sombre! :cool:

[kianduatha]

Amazing work, Sombre. I noticed just looking around that the Mawpit ritual has so long a descriptive text that it gets cut off.

[grimogre]

PREVIEW IMAGE

http://i32.tinypic.com/34xs4rp.png

-------------------------------------------------------


OGRE KINGDOMS version 0.8

-- TWEAK - Gorger Pitfeast B3 -> B4

-- TWEAK - Scrapapult goldcost 170 -> 150

-- CONTENT - Mawfiend summon added

-- CONTENT - Mawpit summon added for B3E1, H3 blood saccer, no slots, no upkeep

-- CONTENT - Mawgut summon/transformation added

-- TWEAK - Braugh's weapon now raises those it slays

-- CONTENT - Yhetee shaman summon added

-- CONTENT - Skrag the Slaughterer hero added

-- TWEAK - Tyrants reduced to 80 leadership

-- TWEAK - Slaughtermasters get FE 100% pick

-- TWEAK - Gnoblar single recruits added as option, new 'flung scrap' missile weapons

-- TWEAK - New costs for commanders in line with new philosophy

-- TWEAK - Reduced costs of most recruits

-- CONTENT - Henchfiend summon added as researcher with access into death/fire

-- TWEAK - Ogre Temples, being pits in the ground, now only 100 gold

-- TWEAK - Butcher and Slaughtermaster mr boosts

-- TWEAK - Gnoblar got some patrolbonus to reflect their multiunit status



OGRE KINGDOMS 0.7

-- FIX - Reordered ID numbers to avoid future conflicts with basegame

-- TWEAK - Altered Eastern Maneater graphic slightly

-- TWEAK - Slightly decreased scraplauncher cost and increased range

-- TWEAK - Increased price of yhetee and gorger summons

-- TWEAK - Giants get one misc slot

-- TWEAK - Improved PD

-- CONTENT - Added first prophet national hero

-- TWEAK - Ogres with two weapons now don't get Ogre Smash and have had their cost tweaked accordingly

-- FIX - Changed name and epithet to better fit dominions

-- FIX - Changed name of dm and mod folder to fit my conventions

-- FIX - Starting scout is now a butcher, since they have dying dom



OGRE KINGDOMS 0.6

-- CONTENT - Added Hero 'Slavelord Braugh' and his slaves, plus his two weapons

-- FIX - Fort types checked and changed

-- TWEAK - Sacred pitfighter +10 goldcost

-- TWEAK - Bruiser and Tyrant commanders -10 goldcost each

-- TWEAK - Slavegiant gets siegebonus 5

-- FIX - added the missing mountainsurvival to gnoblar units

-- TWEAK - deathbelcher weapon better, unit +4 goldcost

-- TWEAK - gave yhetee coldpower 2



OGRE KINGDOMS 0.55

-- fixed a bunch of id conflicts with MA Skaven, should all work fine together now



OGRE KINGDOMS 0.5


-- added ogre nametype 147

-- darkvision handed out, use of copystats removed

-- checked IDs against Skaven 0.9, CBM 1.21, Avernum 1.45 + others

-- made slave giants into commander units with no slots, improved their graphics


-- Version 0.4

-- Slavegiant, scrapapult, rhinox, pit fighter added

-- Gnoblar scout added

-- Anoint Mawtribe sacred summon

-- Many tweaks


----------------------------------


STRENGTHS

1. Unequalled offensive force from Ogres
2. Mobile nation with good survivals and mapmove
3. Powerful Gut Magic buffs/summons require little/no research
4. Gnoblars, giants and scraplaunchers fill specific roles
5. Very thuggable commanders


WEAKNESSES

1. Horrible research
2. Very poor magic diversity
3. Constant supply issues
4. Dying dominion requires sacrifice
5. Predictable

Good

[BandarLover]

Thanks for this! I only wish it had been out before this last MP game I'm in playing as the Ogre's. I'm in a bit of a bad spot, but my 1 army keeps crushing everything Arga Dis (another great Sombre mod btw) keeps throwing at me. I think I'm most excited to see you give them a better mid game and hopefully some decent late game stuff too.

Keep up the good work Sombre :D

[Sombre]

Yeah without this update the Ogres really suffered in the midgame. As soon as your opponent gets his key RL4-6 spells, you start to get pounded.

This update also gives the ogres an even stronger early game.

[BandarLover]

lol well, I'm prolly boned in the mp game I'm in then, but I'm sure the Arga Dis player already thinks the Ogre early game is too strong. With 1 army of just over 100 units, plus 1 giant and the hero slave driver unit, I've crushed 2 200+ unit armies of Argan hoplites and Gilgans with minimal losses. I'm just too small and he has sooooo many provinces already that I'm sure it's only a matter of time before he grinds me down though.

[Joelz]

Yet again I'm here to report a bug way too late.

Your Ogre Kingdoms mod seems to overwrite the Lantern shield's script which summons several Corpse Candles around the edges of battle, replacing them with Gorgers.
Might have something to do with national hero who summons few gorgers around the battle just like with the lantern shield. I think this hero was called Skrag the Slaughterer.

By the way, aren't you going to finish this mod? The title still says version 0.8.

[Sombre]

Ah I forgot about that item. Well, no matter. Small bug.

Yes I plan on finishing the mod. As in, no more content, just tweaks. But it's finished when it's finished. The version number is irrelevant.

[Burnsaber]

Sombre, I know you're busy and all, but would you mind doing a quickfix for the Corpse Candle bug? It just caused me to win a battle in MP which I should not have won (a gorger owned atlantis mage who had casted acid storm a corpse candle could not have done that). I'm also in a situation where I might actually want to make Lantern Shields, but I can't because of the bug.

It's also really confusing to play with two corpse candle spells when you want to script the vanilla spell.

[Sombre]

I have fixed the issue already in an internal version. So I guess I could put that up today.

Why are you casting corpse candle when you know it's bugged though? Also I'm confused as to why you're seeing two corpse candle spells. Even before I fixed this, I thought I'd changed the original to be unresearchable (and probably have a different name).

[Burnsaber]

Why are you casting corpse candle when you know it's bugged though?

Because the lantern shield casted it for me (and I did not know that it was bugged until I saw it). It's not like I had much choice.

Anyways, great that you have a fixed version. We can avoid stuff like this in the future.

[Sombre]

-- Version 0.9

-- FIX - Shorter facet of the maw (spell) description

-- TWEAK - Hunter harpoon now dt_large for bringing down the heffalumps

-- FIX - Skrag Gorger summon no longer messes with lantern shield

-- FIX - Gnoblar scouts get mountainsurvival

-- FIX - Berserkers was showing up twice in spell library

[kianduatha]

The .dm file has a typo in the Mawfiend section--it says "#magicksill 5 1" so they don't start with D1 like they're supposed to.

[Sombre]

True. Will be fixed in next version.