Charm

[carlosib]

One simple question. Does the Charm spell (Thau 7) works on any unit in the game? Can i charm, mindless, undead, horrors, etc?
Thanks http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[AreWeInsaneYet]

No mindless. Everything else's fine AFAIK.

[thejeff]

Pretenders as well, I believe.

[Edi]

Pretenders are immune, but wished for units that are available in pretender selection are fair game.

[Taqwus]

Ex. -- even if you charm Lammashastas or, say, one of the three forms of Umor expressing his dislike of somebody casting a global during Astral Corruption, they'll still vanish after the battle.

[MaxWilson]

Hmmm. Reminds me of a Master of Magic exploit, where you'd create an Air Elemental and then do a Word of Recall on it to get it permanently (although it did cost a lot of upkeep). I wonder what happens if you cast the army-wide version of Returning after charming Umor. Do you get to keep him? Probably not, but you never know.

-Max

[Taqwus]

Still gone.

You can keep a Doom Horror around for a bit longer (until they decide to leave, which might be but isn't necessarily next turn) if you Wish for them, but you won't necessarily get the one you want, and it's not really all that useful to have the Slave to Unreason sitting around.

[MaxWilson]

I've never yet faced any of the horrors. Are there really any more desirable than a normal SC? My impression was that Doom Horrors are scary largely because they appear in assassination-type attacks, and because even if you win they can still horror-mark you for repeats. Someone posted Kurgi's stats a while back and, aside from IIRC Blood Vengeance, they didn't look that impressive when matched against a conventional army.

-Max

[Taqwus]

For SC use, I'd rather have a Seraph (whoa!) or a Tartarian Titan (more feasible for most nations... and once you can get them, lower marginal cost). More slots, nasty base stats.

You can't equip a Doom Horror with Aegis + Flesh Ward + Amon Hotep. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/redface.gif

[Shovah32]

Kurgi isnt a combat horror, he cant even move.

[Lingchih]

Afraid of my newly sprung crop of undead Giants? Don't worry, there'll still be plenty of Jarls around for you to charm.

[noname]

Umor has three forms? I thought that he only had two, and that if his first was killed, he would become "true ethereal", which is something that no other unit in the game can do.

[Shovah32]

There are 2 true ethereal forms iirc.

[carlosib]

Lingchih said:
Afraid of my newly sprung crop of undead Giants? Don't worry, there'll still be plenty of Jarls around for you to charm.



I just hope those dumb pans are smart enough to focus the spell on your Jars and not on the "uncharmable" troops...
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif

[Jazzepi]

I'm sure that the mage targeting will ignore troops that are immune to spells.

Jazzepi

[vfb]

MaxWilson said:
I've never yet faced any of the horrors. Are there really any more desirable than a normal SC? My impression was that Doom Horrors are scary largely because they appear in assassination-type attacks, and because even if you win they can still horror-mark you for repeats. Someone posted Kurgi's stats a while back and, aside from IIRC Blood Vengeance, they didn't look that impressive when matched against a conventional army.

-Max



I've only seen Umor's initial form. In that form, he has strength 20, attack skill 25, six attacks per turn. The attacks are:

Curse Luck (MR)
Life Drain (AP,life drain)
4 * Astral Claw (AN)

In each round of attacks my unit lost about 90 HP (it was a treelord, and it took 3 sets of attacks to die). Protection doesn't help because of the AN. Blood Vengeance took care of most of the bodyguard/summons thrown at Umor.

So, it's got decent damage, good crowd control through Blood Vengeance, and a decent MR of 20. Zero encumberance, and healing 10HP per round with Life Drain. And that's just the first form.

[Frostmourne27]

vfb said:

So, it's got decent damage, good crowd control through Blood Vengeance, and a decent MR of 20. Zero encumbrance, and healing 10HP per round with Life Drain. And that's just the first form.



Actually, it's more than 10 hp. Lifedrain from natural weapons isn't capped at five points. Doom Horrors are pretty nasty.

Also, wishing for them can be... dangerous. Be prepared for the unexpected.

[MaxWilson]

Those are pretty good attack values, but isn't Umor's Protection pretty low? I thought it was around 14 or something. You'd have it boost it up to at least 20 to make a decent SC.

-Max

[PyroStock]

Are non-leaders with horror marks good to save as decoys for leaders who get horror marks or are they best to put on the front line asap? If they're in an army could they attract horrors during regular battles to endanger others in the army?

[Edi]

If it's Umor's second or third form, his low protection is irrelevant. True ethereal does for magic damage what ethereal does for non-magic damage and Bloodvengeance(+4) and Bloodvengeance(+7) respectively start hurting a lot.

[MaxWilson]

Ooooh, wow. Blood Vengeance +7 *does* start to look impressive.

-Max

[NTJedi]

PyroStock said:
Are non-leaders with horror marks good to save as decoys for leaders who get horror marks or are they best to put on the front line asap? If they're in an army could they attract horrors during regular battles to endanger others in the army?



yes units with horror marks would make good bodyguards for commanders with horror marks, just make sure they have very high morale because if the bodyguards retreat the commander will most likely retreat as well during an assassination. Ideally you would want a unit which has many horror marks guarding the commander thus being more likely to be targeted by the attacking horror. Currently there are no summoning spells which provide severely horror marked units, but maybe we'll see one in an upcoming patch. :PRAYING for this spell:
If units with horror marks are on the battlefield you would only have to worry if a horror gets summoned on the battlefield.

[MaxWilson]

Psientist's Mytheology patch has the Trap Visitors spell (I think that's what it's called), which is an S3 (?) spell to summon horror-marked bodyguards.

-Max

[jutetrea]

I used the summon visitor spell from myth mod once so far, wasn't horrormarked, just "never healing wound". Not sure if that was the intention or not.

[NTJedi]

MaxWilson said:
Psientist's Mytheology patch has the Trap Visitors spell (I think that's what it's called), which is an S3 (?) spell to summon horror-marked bodyguards.

-Max



Last I recall there was no working way to give summoned units horror marks. I remember seeing the request to include this modding feature, yet I believe we're still waiting.

[Jazzepi]

NTJedi said:

MaxWilson said:
Psientist's Mytheology patch has the Trap Visitors spell (I think that's what it's called), which is an S3 (?) spell to summon horror-marked bodyguards.

-Max



Last I recall there was no working way to give summoned units horror marks. I remember seeing the request to include this modding feature, yet I believe we're still waiting.



Um, I distinctly remember seeing my EA T'ien Ch'i water demons from the spell Heavenly Rivers getting horror marked by astral geyser in the Ragnarok game.

Jazzepi

[NTJedi]

Jazzepi said:

NTJedi said:

MaxWilson said:
Psientist's Mytheology patch has the Trap Visitors spell (I think that's what it's called), which is an S3 (?) spell to summon horror-marked bodyguards.

-Max



Last I recall there was no working way to give summoned units horror marks. I remember seeing the request to include this modding feature, yet I believe we're still waiting.



Um, I distinctly remember seeing my EA T'ien Ch'i water demons from the spell Heavenly Rivers getting horror marked by astral geyser in the Ragnarok game.

Jazzepi



We're not talking about horror markings from battlefield events. We're talking about summoning new units which arrive with horror marks.
I'll have what you're drinking. lol