Star Wars Mod

[Atrocities]

Over the last month I have been working on a bunch of new images that I plan to use with a new mod that I am working on making for Space Empires IV. I am calling it the Star Wars Mod because it is going to be my attempt at making a mod based off of both Rebellion and Empires At War. While I haven't yet began the actual process of modding, I have worked out the mod details and have been working on new images. Below are just a few of what I have completed.

I now have nearly a complete Trade Federation Set, (Neo Standard), Separatist set, and a Syndicate set.

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/uploads/540212-tf1.PNG http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/uploads/540212-tf2.PNG http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/uploads/540212-TF3.PNG
http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/uploads/540212-imp1.PNG http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/uploads/540212-imp2.PNG http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/uploads/540212-separatists1.PNG

[Atrocities]

And more.

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/uploads/540214-syndicate1.PNG http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/uploads/540214-syndicatef.PNG

[Suicide Junkie]

Hey, nifty!
Those look awesome on the tan background.
I do worry a little about the darkness of the left wing on the right ship of the new pair... but it is probably fine.

[Ed Kolis]

Wow, those are some awesome ships! Did you make them with Doga? That one robot thingy reminds me of the robo-miners from SE5 though! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Black_Knyght]

OH HELL YEAH !!!!

Those are simply amazing! I can't wait to see all this once it's come together.

[Atrocities]

Thank you all. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Atrocities]

Here are some that I made today. Once I have the pirate ships finished I will begin working on the mod itself.

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/uploads/540449-walker1.PNG http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/uploads/540449-walker2.PNG http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/uploads/540449-walker3.PNG

[Ed Kolis]

Whoa, that's one friggin' huge cannon for the walker...

[Black_Knyght]

Right out of the movie!!!

[Ironmanbc]

Is the mod going to be like Star Wars Rebellion Mod or more like Star Trek Mod?

[Artaud]

Beautiful!

[Atrocities]

Ironmanbc said:
Is the mod going to be like Star Wars Rebellion Mod or more like Star Trek Mod?



It may have similar parts but mostly it will be a completely new mod.

I am very busy in RL right now so everything has been pushed to the back burner until I can get back into it.

Also there has been a lot of talk about why make new mods for SE IV and all I have to say is, SE IV and SE V are really two separate kind of games. I believe that SE IV is still played more than SE V, and that will be the case until SE VI comes out.

[Black_Knyght]

YEP, more than a few of us still play SEIV, and are dying to see your Star Wars mod come to fruition!!!

[Atrocities]

Thanks BK. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Black_Knyght]

Anytime, my friend http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Atrocities]

Here is one of the new pirate fighters.

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/uploads/551768-piratefighter.PNG

[gregebowman]

I might actually break down and start playing SEIV again once you complete this mod. Looking great so far.

[Black_Knyght]

I'm chomping at the bit myself !!! After all the great times I've had with the Star Trek Mod, and the new fun with the AST mod, I know this'll be well worth every minute of the wait!

[Atrocities]

Okay I need some help. I need to start gathering images and details for all of the star wars races. I need at least 20 of them with race images and back ground details.

Back Ground Info:
I need them for the neutral races. Neutral races will not have colony tech. They are basically one world races. I need images of what kind of fighters they might use and or if they have any ships. Of course there will be races that don't have any ships, like the wookiee's and such.

Pirates and smugglers will have only a few classes of ships but no colony tech. They they will make up the bulk of the minor races. Pirates and smugglers will have a base of operations, a planet, and there will be many factions of each. This way when you start a game you get your major races, and a bunch of neutrals, and a handful of smugglers and pirates to play against.

The major races will be the Empire, The rebel faction, the Trade Federation, the Separatists, and the Criminal Consortium.

[Ironmanbc]

I know this is maybe copyright law bending but try this site..


http://www.starwars.com/databank/species/

hope this helps ya

[Atrocities]

I now have a list of over 20 races. The problem I now have is finding emblems for them all. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif I guess they will just have to be generic ones.

[Ironmanbc]

I found the neutral races ya ask for...
you said nothing about finding emblems for them all as well http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Atrocities]

Thank your Ironmanbc. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Your help was very much appreciated.

[Kana]

I'm working on getting some info for you AT. I'm just not sure it will have what you need. Also not sure how long it will take for me to get it.

[Atrocities]

I could use some help with the tech tree. Objectively I would like to keep the tech tree slim. For weapons I don't really know how to differentiate between them. IE Laser, Turbo Laser, Blaster, Laser Cannon, Ion Cannon, etc.

I was thinking about making the lasers have the ability to target fighters and ships, but not planets. I also was going to make them horribly inaccurate.

I was thinking about making turbo lasers far more powerful in size grades like 12", 16", 24". The larger the size the more power and range it has. The larger they are the more KT they take up. They would be able to target planets and ships, but not fighters.

Blasters would be primarily short range weapons. I don't know how accurate to make them or what their power setting or range should be compared to lasers or turbo lasers. I really don't know as of yet how to define them or make them distinctively different than lasers or turbo lasers.

I was thinking about making engine assemblies and or engine clusters instead of single engines. If you look at say a Stardestroyer it has 3 huge engines and four smaller ones. The huge engines would drive the ship through space while the smaller ones would provide combat movement. Or simply the could just be a combination of both, an engine cluster would give both combat movement and standard movement. I am thinking about making a hyper-drive unit but make the component damaged upon use like I did with the warp overdrive in the AST and STM mods.

I will be using a system like SJ's hull mount system to make the larger ships more expensive and resistant to damage. I want to emulate the realism that it takes a long time to build a large ship and those ships can take considerable damage before being destroyed. The larger they are the more they cost to build and maintain. The player will want to protect these ships and build them in limited numbers while building larger fleets of smaller ships. The Rebels would have a bonus for smaller ships, ie the Nebula frigate would be be heavy hulled so that it can stand up longer in a fire fight, have more maneuverability, while say a Victory SD would be strong hulled but less maneuverable.

Fighters are going to play a major part in the mod as they do in the star wars universe. Just exactly how I am going to do that I really haven't finalized yet. I know that when it comes to the Death Star fighters, like the X-wings, need to have a tactical advantage that larger ships do not have.
To that end I intend to give the death star its own shield class and only fighters will have weapons that can penetrate them. I am not sure how this will work yet, make all shields phase shields say for the death star and then make all fighter weapons to function like phased polaron beams. This way fighter beams would penetrate the death star shields but heavy weapons from ships would have to blast their way through. I could use some insight on this idea on how best to implement it.

As to the Death Star... how am I going to do that? Okay, its big, really big, so it is going to take a long time to build and cost a ton. It will have the ability to destroy a world of course, but be horribly slow. Obviously I cannot emulate the actual size of the thing, it is limited to 36x36 in combat view so it will appear to be the same size as other ships, but its visual size won't represent its actual KT and such.

I also want to do something unusual. I want to use the construction yard expansion system to create two separate kinds of facilities. One would be a standard ground based construction yard... accept it has virtually no organic construction ability. The second, would be a troop recruitment or training facility that has very little mineral or radioactive construction ability but a huge organic construction ability. Of course the AI would have standard construction because it can not simulate a human way of playing and this type of system would only serve to confuse it.

A player would have to build a construction base then build a training center foundation then upgrade to a training center. Without a training center players would not be able to build up infantry units.

Infantry and such will be done differently also. Instead of having say a Stormtrooper, and then having to give him a weapon component, players will have Squads, platoons, divisions, and legions. The components will be stormtroopers, speeder bikes, AT AT's and such. I have tested this system out and it works pretty well. Kinda cool actually.

[Kana]

By tommorrow AT, I should have a wealth of reference material in electronic format for you. With this material, you should have no problem with figuring out all you need to know about Star Wars for your mod.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Atrocities]

The designs of blasters are a fair bit older than that of lasers, becoming less common in newer ships. With their design, blasters have high fire cycle rates, enabling them to multi fire, a mode of fire in which the rate of discharge is increased at the cost of accuracy. Blasters, because they are weaker than laser of similar size, are limited to star fighters.

[Atrocities]

This site has pretty much all the info I need for weapons now. Even gives some points on what weapons go on what ships. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Star_Wars_ship-mounted_weapons)

[Atrocities]

Well the 26 neutral races are done. Say for the data files and such. All the images are done. 26 new racial emblems.. took some time.

I also have the weapon tree mapped out.

[Kana]

PM sent to you AT.

[Atrocities]

Thanks Kana, that was a great source for a lot of information.

Also because of it I made a new model. http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/uploads/553412-deathraven.PNG http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/uploads/553412-deathravenmini.PNG

[Kana]

Would that be the 'DeathRaven'?

[Atrocities]

Yup. Pretty damn cool. I wonder if it can be called a D-Wing or an H-Wing?

[Ironmanbc]

I can kick it butt.... just get me in a TIE-Fighter http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Black_Knyght]

I did some searching and finally found a link that shows lots of flags, logos, and emblems for different groups within the Star Wars Universe. Thought it might prove helpful.



Star Wars Gallery of insignia, logos, and symbols (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Gallery_of_insignia%2C_logos%2C_and_symbols)

[Atrocities]

Thanks BK. I appreciate this very much.

[Atrocities]

I have over come a few road blocks, thanks to the help of Kana and BK. Thanks guys.

I am thinking that I should have only one colonization component and that would be colony module, and it would only colonize rock and ice works together. I want the empire to have a greater degree of colonization ability over the rebellion.

I am considering giving the rebels a limited facility tree given that they are rebels and are not in the business of establishing large colony worlds. They are trying to free the colony worlds of the Empire so the empire should have the lions share of colony tech and facility tech. The empire wants to build up its planets, the rebels want to take them over.

I am also thinking about establishing a monitary system in the game whereas mineral would function building materials, much the way they are in stock, but organics and radioactives would work differently. Organics would be Population and Food, and Radioactives would function as currency.

For facilities, ship hulls, and people oriented components such as crew quarters, bridge, etc, the organic cost would represent population needed to run the plant. Farms would produce Organics, which of course the more organics you have the larger the population you can feed the more population you have.

Radioactives would be produced through specialized facilities and would be limited in production quantity in order to simulate an economic model of supply and demand.

Radioactive storage facilities would become banks, with banking neutral clans having better storage and radioactive production abilities.

The rebels would generate radioactive income from Intel operations against the empire, and through sales of minerals and organics via resource conversion. (The AI of course wouldn't work well that way so it will be standardized to have special facilities to generate appropriate combinations of needed resources.)

Also I am thinking about a progressive upgrade expansion model for colonization of planets. When the empire establishes a new colony, (Remember the empire has greater access and lower cost to colonize than the rebels will have) the colony first builds a settlement, upgrades at specific predetermined tech level, to town, upgrades again to a small city, then a large city, metropolis, and then mega metropolis. With each increase more facilities become available that increase production, pop happiness, which for empire will be set into a negative range by default, and other improvements. As they grow they can hold more and more storage, and have a greater construction ability.

There will be improvements like planetary infrastructure, commerce, etc.

For ships they will have classes and require mounts, these mounts will be called "Superstructures" and will be what determines the ships overall base armor rating. Of course players will have the option to improve the armor via armor components.

Again for ships the larger the ship the greater the cost to build and maintain. Once built players will want to keep them so hopefully they will develop tactics and strategies to keep those ships from being lost. The smaller ships will have bonuses in cost reduction, speed, maneuverability and such.

Also I am considering giving each ship classification the following pre-established abilities. ECM, Combat Support, Muti-Tracking, pre-set base fighter and cargo capacities. Of course there will be components available to increase fighter capacity and launch numbers, cargo, storage, etc.

Ships will not have a large number of combat movement, while fighters will have considerable combat movement and no standard movement. (Say for specific advanced models.)

I am also considering making a ship class of say 20 to simulate an advanced kind of fighter. I don't know how to work it yet, but I am in the process of conceptualizing a unique type of FLEET class for them via the use of mounts and such. IE no capital ship will have access to this fleet, only fighters. This way I can try to simulate a fighter group using the limitations and physics of Space empires. I don't know if I can make it work, like I said I am trying to conceptualize it now. Might not be able to make it work... might have to make them glorified drones, but drones only work if you send them to a specific "target" not location.

More to come as I continue to work out the mod details.

[Kana]

Atrocities said:
I have over come a few road blocks, thanks to the help of Kana and BK. Thanks guys.



Your welcome. Did you get the other reference material?


Atrocities said:
I am also thinking about establishing a monitary system in the game whereas mineral would function building materials, much the way they are in stock, but organics and radioactives would work differently. Organics would be Population and Food, and Radioactives would function as currency.



PES did something similar for his SEV mod. He even changed the Rad and Org icons to something that looks like money and people.

[Kana]

More reference material posted for you AT.

[Suicide Junkie]

Re: Organics -> population

It would probably be better to make that "trained personnel" or some such rather than just random schmoes (which you can load into cargo by the millions)

Something you have to invest in, via universities and recruitment camps and such.

In such a case, organics value would represent the overall knowledge level of the planet. Schools and universities would boost value... recruitment centers would be like organics farms, but reduce value as they skim the technically minded off to work on the starships.

[Black_Knyght]

Atrocities said:
I have over come a few road blocks, thanks to the help of Kana and BK. Thanks guys.



You're more than welcome <font color="red">AT</font> !

I'm just glad if I could help out in some small way. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

[Atrocities]

Thanks Guys for the help and the advice. There is a lot to consider and it is at times somewhat overwhelming.

[Atrocities]

Which one of these do you think works best for a fleet image?

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/uploads/554905-ImpFleetEmb3.PNG
http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/uploads/554905-ImpFleetEmb4.PNG

[Ironmanbc]

#2 it shows the different kind of ships in a fleet

[Black_Knyght]

#1 seems a bit more representative of a Fleet Icon, or Marker , IMHO

[Kana]

I like #1 as well.

[Intimidator]

Hi AT.

You know I did some stuff with an SW mod myself.
So I think I still have a lot of info left for you. So let me know on which items you still need info.

And here is my SW Sector map:
- The seiv-systems are used as SW-sectors with multiple systems in it giving the map an real SW feeling with a lot of stars and planets, even the SW-trade routes are overlaping so you can travel around the entire galaxy within a few turns and even passing by WP-blockades (see the map)

[Atrocities]

Thank you. Did you use stock se iv to make the map or Fyron's Quadrant mod? And any info you can provide about Star wars would be greatly appreciated.

[Intimidator]

I used Fyron's mod in my SW Rebellion mod.

[Intimidator]

Hi AT,

Got a lot of info, but please let me know about what kind of info you need.....
About Planets, factions/races, ships, etc etc...

Also in the SW expanded univers (some 100 books I think)
There a lot of planets with specific techs/functions
Maybe you can use the unique-tech ruine to get some of those techs.
Exmple :
Mustafer = Giant mineral/ore mine (see: SW3)
Kuat = Kuat driveyards, specialized/larger shipyard
Carida = Imperial Military Academy

So let me know ?

Inti,

[Intimidator]

BTW.

Also let me know if you are in need of an SW map.
I still got all the info at hand so could help you with one (the one I made is based on the SW-rebellion propulsion system, so maybe not good for yours)

So if you need an SW-map, tell me how your propulsion system works and if you are ussing FQM or something else ??

Inti,

[Atrocities]

Thanks Intimidator. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Ironmanbc]

I have an idea if ya want to give it a try, how about making fighters the PD weapons each ship can carry fighters that can lanch from them like Small Fighter: PD, Med fighter: fighter vs fighter, large fighter: missle lanchers

what do you think about this?

[Atrocities]

It is pretty close to what I was thinking about doing. Except that there are some ships that are designed with fighter management in mind. IE they are equipped with anti-fighter lasers. Good idea though about PD fighters. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Atrocities]

Working on the Pirate Ships.

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/uploads/558984-pirateship2.PNG http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/uploads/558984-pirateship1.PNG

[Black_Knyght]

Very cool looking.

They maintain the overall "Star Wars" look and feel while still being unique from anything already seen.

Nice work.

[Atrocities]

Thank you BK. The first image is used in EAW. The second is just me muking around a bit trying to flesh out a usable ship set for the pirates.

Once I have the pirates done, I will begin working on the data files. I am conflicted though. I don't know if I should go with a simplified tech tree or one that has many branches.

Simply put, Imperial Tech I - XX. As the tech level increases, the player gains access to new things like ships, weapons, and so on. No choices as to which branch to follow, the tech is progressive and locked.

Or two, branched, this would allow players to select what tech they want to research over other tech.

The pros of a simplified system are that it matches EAW, and Rebellion, is AI friendly, easy to added new tech, and makes the research file very simple. Cons- is that it becomes very predictable, there is no choices made by the player.

Of course a multi branched approach is what most SE IV players are used to and seem to prefer. But it is time consuming to set up, isn't all that AI friendly, and it doesn't really lend itself well to the addition of new tech. (requires modding of many files)

[Kana]

I say do the first, and then if you feel up to it work on the second and offer it as an alternative version of the mod.

[Intimidator]

I agree with Kana,

And starting with the easier option first will give you an easy chance to test and work out some of your ideas.
(And knowing you just a little, you will never stop adjusting your mod, just take a look at AST, STM http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif )

[Black_Knyght]

I think I'd have to agree here, too. Go for the simplest approach first, then expand on it if you'd care to later, as time, motivation, and energy permit.

[Suicide Junkie]

Atrocities said:
Once I have the pirates done, I will begin working on the data files. I am conflicted though. I don't know if I should go with a simplified tech tree or one that has many branches.

Do you want to make it more of a movie reenactment, or a sandbox with SW physics?

[Atrocities]

What would you prefer? I mean as one of the most skilled mod makers in the community, what do you think would be the best approach to make? I value any and all help any one is willing to hand me. Advice is something that I desperately need.

[Suicide Junkie]

I personally prefer things to work with the least amount of iron-fist rules.

In my preferred paradigm, a game trying to replicate movie action would be a scenario... Plenty of neutrals helping the rebels-without-a-homeworld (just a hidden, tiny ice world colony for maintaining political contact?) all while trying to avoid the planetbusting wrath of the established empire empire (who starts with subjugation treaties with everyone, and thus huge resources for huge ships and fleets with which to oppress the others).

The scenario would start out with a big fleet of movie like designs, but there would be no reason you couldn't build new custom stuff when events start unfolding. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif
Maybe the rebels could start out with a single million-organics cost fighter that has a special damage type, Deathstar-killer weapon (only planet destroyers, 64k damage?) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Try to keep it from dying before the final battle...


On the other hand, for a typical PBW game, you're starting your own empires from scratch, and you have 5 or 6 equally strong empires. Too much canon starts to conflict with the actual game events in that case http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif


PS:
Certainly, going with a heavy handed canon approach will be the most straightforward.
Plug in a limited set of options, and set the abilities such that all of the legal tokens are reasonably accurate.

Making it work sandbox style takes a lot more planning, math, effort, more math, planning, and tuning. And free time to do all of that.

[Atrocities]

Just messing around

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/uploads/560735-smImprerialShipYard.PNG

[Atrocities]

All of the ship sets are 90% done. All that is left are the weapon platforms, satellites, drone, and mine images.

I can begin work on the data files now.

Should be interesting as to how this will all play out.

[Atrocities]

I have added two additional ship images to the Imperials. She if you can guess their names. http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/uploads/560787-impship1.PNG http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/uploads/560787-impship2.PNGhttp://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/uploads/560787-sd2.PNGhttp://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/uploads/560787-impsb1.PNG

[Atrocities]

Neutral Race Crap

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/uploads/562658-neutralwalker.PNG
Neutral Race walker. Neutral races like to buy out dated military equipment and these 10 year old (pre-IV) walkers are ideal and affordable.

Neutral Army
http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/uploads/562658-NeutralRaceArmy.PNG

[Black_Knyght]

VERY, VERY cool. Can't wait for this to come out !!!

[Atrocities]

Thanks bk. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[Atrocities]

I have to figure out what ships to give them now. I don't think they will get that many as the neutral races in the mod don't colonize, and won't have any need for huge fleets. There primary protection will be ground based weapons, ion cannons, fighters, and troops.

Right now I am considering making troops that kinda look like the races they belong to. That would take some time to do, but since I have already worked out the neutral races and have their files all made (Say for data) it shouldn't take but a day.

What I need now is to get the combat images done. Torps, beams, and such. There will only be four beams, one broken up dash dash beam, a bit larger dash dash beam, a solid beam, and singe dash beam. Torps about the same. However there will be five colors for each beam set. This way the empire will have green, rebels red, pirates orange, syndicate yellow, and a blue beam set for neutrals, smugglers, and bounty hunters.

Smugglers and bounty hunters will basically be separate monster races. I have five ships for each, yes slave 1 is included as is a YT-1300 Corellian Transport.

I am in the process now of setting up the imperial ships. Each ship will have built in fighter launch bays, extra built in cargo space for troops/fighters and some other basic stuff like multi-tracking, combat support, and such. Via weapon mounts each ship will also have a preset number of spaces available for weapons like laser, ion cannons, turbo lasers, and such. Players will be able to add upgraded systems of course as they become available, they would work, I hope, in tandom via stacking, with the built in components abilities. The players will be able to add cargo or extra fighter bays to their designs as well. There will be engine upgrades and such as well as weapon upgrades.

Ships will have their own hull mounts - one of SJ's mods as the inspiration behind this.

Right now I am not going to do much with systems, I doubt I will include FQM at this point. I love FQM but I find that using FQM results in a lot of asteroids, useless planets, and ugly systems. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif I don't know if that would be a good match for a star wars mod.

I might still do a squardant based fighter system. I simply don't know yet if that would work as intended or just piss people off.

Squadrant system is you add fighters as components to a "Squadrant." Each fighter component would have its own abilities. Tie fighters would be cheap and do limited damage. Tie Advanced would give a combat bonus and be limited to how many could be added to a squadrant. Tie Interceptors would be do more damage, tie bombers would basically be bombs, etc. There are advantages and disadvantages to a system like this. One you can name the Squadrants but then the human factor about designing your fighters would be taken out of the equation. I will try both systems to see which one works best. I might even give the player a choice during race set up to choose which system they want.

Drones... basically spy bots. Can be deployed from a ship and basically have a limited cloaking ability that allows them to "spy" on a system. For the empire it would be probe droids. For the Rebels either modified y-wings, or droids. For the other races, spy satellites or cloaked drone-ships.

I am also thinking about making a 20kt to 40kt fighter. This would not be a "fighter" that can be added to ships, but a really small ship that can travel warp points and look like a fighter. For the Rebels this is going to be that modified B-wing and Modified Y-wings. For the Empire, Tie Defenders, the other races, I don't know yet. Probably a fighter looking small 20kt ship with stealth ability.

The purpose to this would be to give players the option to launch fighter attacks from remote bases. (I might even throgh in some x-wing variants and tie variants to spice this up.) They would be NO stronger than their true fighter counter parts.

I am also considering the option of removing Resupply Depot from the game. Make the supplies for ships large. Give each ship the ability to regenerate supplies. This would force players to consider "down time" for their ships. They would need to stop over for resupplying and would then be taken out of use while they built their supply inventory back up. I really like this idea but fear the AI would just go bonkers with it so the AI again would get to cheat their way out of it by having greater resupply and supply advantages.

I am worried as to how I would set things up for planets. I want Rock oxygen worlds to have the most facility slots, and Oxygen Gas worlds to have but only one. Bespin Gas Mining Base for example. Ice planets would have limited spaces about 1/4 the size of a rock world of the same size. I sincerely lack the modding ability in this area to understand how I would do that or if even it can be done.

Help in this area would be greatly appreciated.

[Atrocities]

I have decided to combine the bounty hunter and smuggler races into a new major neutral race... the Hutt Syndicate.

[Black_Knyght]

Atrocities said:
I have decided to combine the bounty hunter and smuggler races into a new major neutral race... the Hutt Syndicate.



That makes sense, in many ways. Keeps things very thematic too. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

[Black_Knyght]

Your breakdown of ideas sounds very well thought out and detailed. Overall, sounds good to me.

[Kana]

Anymore gems from the source material provided?

[Atrocities]

I am conflicted about something. If I make the bulk of all fighters small kt sized ships, say from 4 to 12kt in side, then they would be able to move with the fleets, much like we see in star wars, but then would I also need to make them standard fighters too?

If they are ships then players can build actual squadrons of fighters and name them, like Red Squadron. They won't be able to be loaded to ships, but there would be more benefits than simply loading them into ships. I am thinking that perhaps make Tie fighter and Hammer Heads and A-Wings standard fighters, but everything else small ships.

[Atrocities]

A redo Scout speeder bike.

[Atrocities]

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/uploads/563075-scoutbiker.PNG

[Atrocities]

yes, that is a pure Doga model.

[Atrocities]

Some characters
http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/uploads/563085-thawn.PNG http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/uploads/563085-dsgeneral.PNG http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/uploads/563085-veers.PNG http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/uploads/563085-imperialmilitary.PNG
http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/uploads/563085-scouttrooper.PNG http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/uploads/563085-atatdriver.PNG http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/uploads/563085-deserttrooper.PNG

[Black_Knyght]

VERY impressive, one and all. Very nicely done.

[Atrocities]

Thanks man. Took some work but I like how they came out. Thanks for your PM's too. Sorry I didn't get back to you about what you said. I am ok, just having some health issues, same old same old. I will try and get the work updated so I can pass it along to you.

[Black_Knyght]

Damn good to hear you're okay. No worries about getting back to me, though.

I have something more for you now as well.

[Noble713]

Atrocities said:
IE Laser, Turbo Laser, Blaster, Laser Cannon, Ion Cannon, etc.



Blasters have a really short range but usually a high fire rate to compensate. They are older tech and aren't used much anymore. Laser Cannons are your typical light weapons, with a short range. Turbo lasers are massive weapons, easily 5x the power of a laser cannon (and up), with a long range. Still, all of them use the same basic technology, just ever-larger and more refined versions of it. I'd stick 'em all in the same tech area of Laser Weapons, with blasters topping off early in the progression, laser cannons ending about halfway up the tree, and turbolasers going all the way to the max level.

Note: In the Star Wars universe guided ordnance (proton torps and concussion missiles primarily) have a shorter range than energy weapons, but can skip ray shields.


I was thinking about making turbo lasers far more powerful in size grades like 12", 16", 24". The larger the size the more power and range it has. The larger they are the more KT they take up. They would be able to target planets and ships, but not fighters.



The power output of a turbolaser isn't really dependent on the size of the barrel, but on the output of the ship's reactor, which can't be accurately modelled in SE4/5. A classification system based on output in Megatons/Gigatons/Teratons of firepower would be an acceptable compromise.



I am thinking about making a hyper-drive unit but make the component damaged upon use like I did with the warp overdrive in the AST and STM mods.



This is the method used in the existing SW mod. It makes using hyperdrives on ships in a fleet a real pain, so much so that I stopped bothering. Much like the reactor output issue, a VERY fast strategic/slow-medium tactical movement dynamic isn't really feasible in SE4.


The Rebels would have a bonus for smaller ships, ie the Nebula frigate would be be heavy hulled so that it can stand up longer in a fire fight, have more maneuverability, while say a Victory SD would be strong hulled but less maneuverable.



Nitpick: The Nebula-class Escort Frigates are produced by Kuat Drive Yards; in other words, it's an Imperial ship, not a Rebel one. The Rebel's only manage to get their hands on them through theft/desertion/capture.


Fighters are going to play a major part in the mod as they do in the star wars universe.



The importance of fighters fluctuates depending on which sources you examine. If you use the original trilogy or any of the games (which are at the lowest level of canon) you get the impression that fighters are the end-all be-all of space combat. Parts of the Expanded Universe, particularly the Clone Wars material, emphasize the importance of capital ships (rightly, IMO). Think about: if it only takes a few squadrons of hyperspace-capable fighters armed with proton torpedoes to blow up a Star Destroyer, why would anyone build capital ships at all?

I'd suggest swinging by stardestroyer.net's Pure SW tech debates sub-forum. Anything and everything you need to know about SW has probably been discussed there. How "realistic" you want to make the mod is up to you though. My feelings are that Empire At War and Rebellion, while fun, are horrible simulations of the SW universe and overly "gamey". Part of the problem is that SW canon is convoluted and oftentimes contradictory. Combine that with the huge variances in scale (from 15-meter fighters to 20km capital ships) and making an all-encompassing mod that possessess any degree of accuracy, realism, and continuity becomes insanely difficult and frustrating.

Good luck.

[Schattenkanzler]

Note: In the Star Wars universe guided ordnance (proton torps and concussion missiles primarily) have a shorter range than energy weapons, but can skip ray shields.



Thats not right. Missles are fired in a range up to 2,5 km and Lasers are fired up to 1,5 km

[Noble713]

Schattenkanzler said:
Thats not right. Missles are fired in a range up to 2,5 km and Lasers are fired up to 1,5 km




Only in the X-Wing/TIE Fighter series flight simulators. Games are at the lowest level of Star Wars canon, and are therefore superceded by any other source that conflicts with them (i.e. novels, technical books like the Incredible Cross Sections, etc.).

[Ironmanbc]

so how's the mod coming along?

[Atrocities]

I have finished working on the troop components and have finalized the ships. I should have the empire basic crap done very soon. Once I get the empire working I can start on the rebels. Its slow going but I am getting there. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I should have a alpha by the end of the month.

[Ironmanbc]

MAY THE FORCE BE WITH YOU http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Ironmanbc]

So hows the mod coming along????

if ya need a tester I'll do it

[Atrocities]

Slowly. I have been under the weather as of late and haven't gotten much work done. I am sorry but it looks like its going to be another week beyond my original estimate. I just haven't been able to concentrate on it like I want too. But regardless of what I have done I will post an alpha in two weeks.

[Ironmanbc]

Ya I got a cold as well... thats why i'm sitting here playing se4 and se5 (not at the same time) and trying mods.

I got my butt handed to me playing AST http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Atrocities]

That is good. I still have to finish the update for AST as well. I just lost interest in everything when I got sick. I haven't been able to shake this damn thing since I got it.

[Atrocities]

I hit a snag called information overload. I was able to put in some work today on the mod. I have fleshed out the ship sizes for the Empire, as that is really all that I am working on at the moment.

I went through the information that was provided regarding books and such, and I have to tell you there is really no way in hell that SE IV will ever allow any one to make a true Star Wars type mod. There simply isn't a way.

That being said of course, we must improvise a solution. So that is what I have been doing since September.

There is so much going on in my head that I am finding it hard to get it all down. Get it all to work. So please keep in mind that when the alpha is posted, it will be a very basic version of what I hope to expand upon.

[Ironmanbc]

well thats good that your trying to make it as close to StarWars but remember it's still SE4 game

just like Startrek, Babylon 5, and that Fantasy Empires Mod... close but still se4 game

ok so don't be to nit-picky on the true Star Wars type, just make it close as ya can ok... we don't mind http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Suicide Junkie]

The more you tighten your grip, the more players slip through your fingers http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Atrocities]

Well I cannot say much for my accomplishments with this mod but I am getting the empire done.

What I have done:
Made all Empire images
Made all Rebel Set images
Made all Underworld Set images
Made all Separatist Set images
Made all Trade Federation Set images
Made over 100 new Star Wars component images
Added over 50 new facilities images
Made all neutral race portraits (Collected and set up)
I have most of the imperial ship size file done.
I have 50% of the imperial facilities set up.
I have the Empire Research file completed
I have the Empires Tech file completed

I am working on the mounts and components now.

I still need to finish the Empire files, then move onto the rebels and other races.

I need to construct Intel and Events files.

The hard part has been to try and get what is in my head done. I have remade the ship size file at least 20 times over the last week. I have gone from having all the ships have their own abilities to limiting them and adding more components. Components can be destroyed, built in abilities cannot.

I am working on the mounts right now. I hope to have them pretty well done by the end of tomorrow. As I work on the mounts I am also working on the base components for the empire. You know engines, weapons, and specialty items.

I have set it up so that some fighters are both fighters and equal size ships. This way players can make squadrons to roam with the fleets, and still have fighters to pack into those star destroyers and carriers. TIE fighters are just fighters though.

I should have the rest of the facilities for the empire completed tonight. That is if I can keep working. My shoulder and neck are killing me.

When I release the alpha of the empire I hope that some of you will take some time to help me out. I will need feed back on how the economic system works. Are things too expensive, or cheap, did I miss any components? Do I need to add more mounts, fix things, tweak things, spell check things, add better descriptions and such?

The AI is going to be a real PITA. But hopefully I can just get it to work well with some work around's.

Economics in the mod are a bit different now. Minerals now represent ship and facility income. You need these resources to build ships and facilities.

Organics have become Troop income needed to build troops.
And radioactives have become Fighter Income needed to build fighters.

Additionally now that they have been separated, there is a construction facility needed for all three. (AI has conventional construction yard that can build with all three resources.) The Planetary Construction yard can build with all three but has limited organic and radioactives building capabilities.

The reason behind this is to force the player to consider how and what they elect to build. Also it will allow the player to concentrate construction of each type on different planets.

It may not work but it seemed interesting to me so I gave it a whirl.

[Ironmanbc]

sounds good so far can't wait to give it a try.

[Black_Knyght]

If you need help testing anything, feel free to drop me a line.

Sounds like you're up to you're usual High Standards in all aspects again !

[Atrocities]

Right now I am still working on the comps. I am trying to get it so that small ships are cost effective and larger ships cost a [censored] load to build and take a long time to do so and cost a ton to maintain. Unfortunately it looks like when you add the ability maintenance to each hull and give it a huge handicap, it doesn't work. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[Ironmanbc]

hehehe THATS why there's only 1 Deathstar

[Atrocities]

Here is an update for those following this mod.

I have pretty much finished the troops up. I only need to get the cost figured out for them so that they don't get built in 1 turn.

I have the fighters pretty much done now. Just some tweaking and cost re-figuring.

I might run into a problem with the number of mounts I am using. There is a limit to them and I think I am near 80 mounts with just the empire. I will count them later and cut and combine what I can.

What I am finding out is that having a basic tech tree, one tech that gives you a lot per level, is kinda working against me at this point. I am going to have to talk to the guys who give the mod a whirl and see what they feel should be done once I get the basic part of the empire worked out and playable onto itself.

I have added some new combat comps as well. The fighters needed a much narrower laser beam than the current combat pack offered. So I made four new images to be used with the mod.

I plan to have the fighters nailed down within a couple of days so that I can finish with the ships and move onto the weapon platforms and later the facilities.

After that I will work on the AI for the empire.

If I find that I need to re-work the tech, then I will. I will most likely try to keep it as simple as possible, breaking it down into basic tech components like Ship Construction, Colony Tech, Fighter Design, etc.

In fact the more I think about it, the more I think I just might have to do that because I need to combine and cross use a lot of the mounts in order to get all of the mounts I will need for all of the races into the mod.

In the last two days I have put nearly 16 hours into this so I will be taking some time off to do other things in order to avoid becoming burned out. Sorry for the delay in releasing the Alpha version, I really feel I need more time to get it in shape before asking people to put time into it. Right now the game freezes when I process a turn using identical empires. (Since there is only one in game at the moment.)

I know that most players have moved onto SE V now, and that is great as SE V has really matured into an outstanding game in its own rights. While I would like to work with SE V, I just find it more satisfying at the moment working on old SE IV. So it is important to the ongoing development of any mod for SE IV that people show interest in the modders work. While I doubt there aren't too many interested players out there, I trust those that are will eventually get a chance to play this mod and perhaps enjoy it to some small degree. After all, SE IV is nearly eight years old.. WOW what a run.

[Suicide Junkie]

Atrocities said:
Right now I am still working on the comps. I am trying to get it so that small ships are cost effective and larger ships cost a [censored] load to build and take a long time to do so and cost a ton to maintain. Unfortunately it looks like when you add the ability maintenance to each hull and give it a huge handicap, it doesn't work. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Huh? It worked just fine for me in GritEcon.

<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>Number of Abilities := 2
Ability 1 Type := Combat To Hit Defense Plus
Ability 1 Descr := Small size makes ship 10% harder to hit in combat.
Ability 1 Val 1 := 10
Ability 1 Val 2 := 0
Ability 2 Type := Modified Maintenance Cost
Ability 2 Descr :=
Ability 2 Val 1 := 2900
Ability 2 Val 2 := 0</pre><hr />
(This is from the size-200 ship, which actually costs more to maintain than to build)

[Atrocities]

Oh I see, you went way up.. I am in like the 200 mark... LOL I thought I would break the game if I went above 255 for Ability 2 Val 1. LOL. Thanks SJ.

[Atrocities]

I haven't given up on this thing, I am just taking some time off to focus on other things. Sorry I didn't get it together enough to release an alpha. I am still working on it, and have made some good progress, but like I said I am just not focused on it at the moment.

I have begun to revamp the research and technology tree. I had to scrap the one tech idea as SE IV makes that option very unapproachable. In fact there are a ton of limitations regarding the ideas and concepts that I had for this mod. Without being able to change the hard code, the virtual limits of the game are extremely limiting.

As I get back into it I will post updates. Right now there isn't enough to upload as it isn't playable and is really only in the testing phase.

But if you are interested, drop me a pm and I will zip what I have and send it to any one who wants to check it out. The zip will be huge as there are a lot of new images.

I haven't given up, I am just moving at a slow pace.

[Ironmanbc]

We don't mind at all if it take a bit of time (just put the same work into making the A.I. work and we will all be happy)

[Atrocities]

Thanks. I have put a lot of work into creating over 1,000 new images and I don't want to see those go to waste. I do hope that people will continue to play SE IV as it is a really fun game.

The limitations of the SE IV though have proven to be a major frustration for me. However as I get back into modding this mod I hope to find a work around for as many of the issues as I can.

[Black_Knyght]

I know I absolutely WILL be playing SEIV for years to come, and I'm very eager to see your latest efforts come to fruition http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Atrocities]

Ran into an interesting thing today. The AI in SE IV is extremely [censored] stupid. I had to make fighters that can be used with fleets a racial trait because the AI would use the fighter components on ships. Joyous. It looks like this feature of the mod will be RPG only.

This is how it breaks down as to what I have done.

Imperial Only
Components 95%
Facilities 50%
Technology 75%
Vehicles 100% (might add one or two more)
AI 0%

Overall:
Cultures 100%
Happiness 100%
Events 0%
Intel 0%
Race AI 0%
Neutral AI 0%

Ship Sets
Imperial 100%
Rebellion 90%
Trade Federation 100%
Separatists 100%
Underworld 100%
Smugglers 50%
Pirates 10%
Neutrals 0%
Events 0%
Components 90%
Facilities 100%
Combat 100%
Mod Art Work 0%
Custom UI 0%

[Atrocities]

Thanks to some great help from PvK I hope to have a playable alpha version of the empire part of the mod out very shortly.

I am working on the design creation file now. With any luck I will have it out in a couple of days.

[Atrocities]

I really am seriously beginning to hate this game because the AI is so damn difficult to work with. Getting the Ai to build anything is really next to impossible given the design of the mod. In order to get it to do anything I will have to give it its own special trait, and that defeats the entire point of the mod. I am about to say to hell with it and throw in the towel. Either I am a complete idiot, or there simply is no way to execute a Star Wars mod effectively using SE IV.

[Atrocities]

THIS IS AN ALPHA VERSION It is not by any means a playable mod.

Issues:
1. AI cannot use Fleet Fighters... bad bad bad things will happen.
2. When set to High Tech start, doesn't start at max level, only starts at level 1.
3. Getting the AI to build things.
4. AI tends to likes putting wrong facility on planets.. resupply + Spaceport, after it colonizes a planet.
5. Costs of things needs to be figured out.

Notes:
1. This is an ALPHA version and it only includes the Empire.
2. The AI is bare bones basic only.
3. Blue buys Ships, Green buys Troops, Red buys fighters.
4. Tech cost and other costs are a work in progress.

I need help in sorting out the AI issues. Namely why it won't start on high tech when told too. Its issues with using the wrong facilities when colonizing. And help in establishing a fair cost for ships, comps, and what not.

If we can get the Empire AI working, well then, we have hope. Download Link (http://www.astempire.net/zips/ASWmodA1.zip)

[Urendi Maleldil]

Yeah, the AI has all kinds of silly quirks. There is a more adaptable solution, but it may take a bit of programming work:

The game loads and processes the AI text files every turn. That means any changes to the AI files take effect immediately if the game is running.

It should be possible for someone to create an AI companion program that alters the AI text files on-the-fly each turn according to more detailed (and sane) parameters.

Plus, since the game is capable of outputting detailed log files in text form, it should also be possible to create an AI that responds automatically to some in-game events using such a companion program.

You up to it?

[Ironmanbc]

I've only played 8 turns but here's the things I found so far

facil_1168 is "can't open file" error the mini pic shows up fine

and lvl 1 colony ship has 0 movement but in the design it shows it haveing a move of 1

looks good so far but the odd thing is Ion Drive Engine has "Creates a warp field surrounding a ship thus allowing it to enter warp drive. (Add Warp Core and 2 Impulse Engines)"

did the Empire get them from the Federation http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Suicide Junkie]

You must have at least one movement worth of standard move, otherwise bonus move and racial bonuses don't count.

[Atrocities]

Fixed the facility problem. Was spelled Facili_1168 instead of Facil_1168

Thanks guys, I will want this mod to work, getting it too has really taxed me. I don't know why, but it seems that things like this are becoming harder and harder for me to do. It is like I am growing dumber each day.

[Intimidator]

Great AT. Am downloading it right now, am eager to take a look...............

[Intimidator]

Hi,

Hey, it looks great and promissing.
BUT http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

I found some errors :

- Fighters design : No scaling/mounting for small turbo laser and fighter shield generator (and probably more weapons at higher tech levels !!)

No Large Pictures :

Troops : Snowtrooper, commander, Tie Mauler, AT-SG Protector, Stormtrooper individual.

Components : Boarding troops, Shield generator, Primary reactor, Hyperdrive Engine.


This is it sofar, Please keep up the good work. And let me know if you need some help..

Intimidator,

[Atrocities]

You need to update your version of the image mod to the latest packs. Those images were added a few months ago. After installing the updated image packs, reinstall the images from the mod.

[Intimidator]

Okay,

[Black_Knyght]

Damn - I found a few things to tell you about, but Intimidator beat me to the punch http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[Ironmanbc]

are you still working on this? work on the Neutral AI first the races you can modify later

[Atrocities]

yes, but its slow going as I am only working on it in my spare time. Download the old beta version to see what I tried to do but am now moving away from.