Pirate Nation Version 1.00!

[Juzza]

Hey all! I got started on this pirate mod!!

Okay! this mod is no longer beta and has very few bugs if I say so myself, any and all feedback is appreciated both good and bad, do voice yourself.

This mod is not based on anything in particular I just like the concept of this mod, I'm not a particularly big fan of pirates but hey, I like this mod.

I may get back to my old mods and redo them after this, Dinnas'Arvl and Tarent, now that I'm I can mod much better.

[Sombre]

Your unit sprites are getting better Juzza :]

Keep at it!

[Juzza]

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif thanks, now I'm modifying Illwinters, if you can't tell, the best sprite there is made from an MA Ulm Axeman, though.. the LA Marginon Captain didn't work out so well, I tryed to colour change it but I couldn't change it to any kind of grey or black so I had to settle for him having leather, and he looks kinda out of place, He's the Grappler.

But the feedback I'm most interested in, is in the mercenary and the Grappler, do ya think I made the Heavy Falchion too good? and the Grapple Chain, not sure on that, it's got the Flail quality as well.

[Juzza]

I just uploaded a mercenary captain and three more mercenary units, next I'll be working on some spell casters and if I can somehow! make a story for a sacred I'll try and jot that in with the wizards and priests, then I'll get started on a few more troops.

[Juzza]

Okay! the nations only priest and a few mages, I'm looking to add... two more, and a sorta, "Pirate Lord" with maybe, some chances for magic, as in theres pirate lords are very strong pirates that are in some way or another great, but I don't know weather to either, Make a funky kind of Pirate Lord with lots of low chances for lots of different kinds of magic and good leader.

OR make a bunch of much more powerful and unique ones as heroes, I'm looking for some peoples opinions to make this mod good, rather than whats easiest for me, which is making one commander.

[Juzza]

any feedback is welcome, any at all

[Humakty]

I like the concept of a pirate clan, but I find the OB lacking in 'elite' troops, which may make the playtesting quite harsh. You choose an hard task, as normally pirates fight on sea, so you'll have to create units from scrap.
The sprites seem fine to me, especially the mercenary troops.

[Juzza]

I already have a good idea for at least one elite troop but I don't think I can squeeze in any sacreds.

[Juzza]

Oh I forgot to add, I uploaded a bunch of new stuff about an hour or two ago, added an elite troop, a new mage, which may need some balancing and a few small sprite fixes.

[Juzza]

I've updated a few more units and a banner so now! this mod is version 1.00!!!! try it out! tell your friends, give me feedback and vote for my mod!!

[Juzza]

So, does anyone like this mod?? or dislike it? can I get anyone to post here??

[Sombre]

I suggest you post a graphical preview. Perhaps it will encourage people to give the mod a whirl. Just a screenshot of the recruiting screen or something would help I think.

Other than that, patience I guess :]

[Burnsaber]

Juzza said:
So, does anyone like this mod?? or dislike it? can I get anyone to post here??



I have a bit of time today. I'll play it and post my thoughts sometime today/tomorrow.

[EarthRaver]

does this mod have captain jack sparrow as a hero?

[Juzza]

has no heroes yet, I can make some heroes like that http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[EarthRaver]

pls include all the heroes like in the last final 3rd movie the world's end.

[Burnsaber]

Ok, played this against he AI for 3,5 years, and here's my thoughts.

Nice work! The over-all nation is nice to play. I really like Pirate Lords, you can thug them out very easily. Or instantly, if you get good magic picks, like A1 W1 for mistform and quicken self http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif. Also, I'm no expert on balance, but this seems balanced enough for me. You should bug Sombre into taking a look at this once you're completely done with it. I'd play the CB version in MP any time.

And some more specific issues;

- The infantry is powerfull, but that's fine. I mean, it's basically the only thing they've got. I like the grappler dudes, they back a bunch but need to be protected. The Blood Guard might need a small gold cost raise (22 or 23 perhaps?). They're very good. 8 of them can easily conquer independent 5 provinces.

- I find the lack of sailing scouts very annoying. You can't excatly use the sailing potential very well now, since you have to attack blindly. Considering that Free Port is a City State of sorts, I wouldn't find some sort of Informant (sailing spy) completely unthematical. I mean that many folk would probably gladly sell information of their own people to pirates in exchange for some of the booty..

- One thing bugs me about Pirate Lords. They're big and bad and that's all right, but why? The current discription implies that they're so big and bad because they "just are so uber". I don't think that this explanation really cuts it. Humans don't get physically bigger with experience. They need somesort of supernatural source for their badassness. Perhaps the Arcanist's imbue some chosen children with raw magic (or something) and have them spend all their life in a ship until they turn 18 or something. The current discription also needs a spell-check.

- About Dread Captains. You know that you can't never sail over more than one water province? That map move 4 doesn't really help about that. Besides it's a bit unthematical that these guys can move through 4 farm lands per turn just because they have fast skeletal ships. Especially when normal undead move 3. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif. So I think that they need some other gizmo trick or just downgraded to a basic mage commander. How about this? Change them to undead and give them some holy magic so that they can reanimate. Perhaps there is a lake in free port where former Pirate Lords, Arcanists, Governers and other big shots have been buried. With the coming of a new god some them have received the god's blessing and have came back form the dead to serve Free Port.

- Some more pretender choises would also be cool. I think that Lord of the Waves and Son of the Sea wouldn't be unthematical choices. Some sort of "Uber-Pirate Lord" pretender wouls also be cool.

- If you're making national heroes, I think that some sort of Spy/Assasin/Master Thief/Rogue hero would be cool (he could be spoken as being the "luck's lover", increases luck scale in the province he dwells, along with unrest as angry fathers want to know who wooed their daughters and the folk demand actions on the sudden rise of crime rate http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif) . Some sort Immortal Pirate lord drawing on the legend of the Flying Dutchman http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Dutchman, wold also be cool.

[Juzza]

Edit: Oh and thankyou for those kind words! though I've got no idea what the CBM versions are, they just don't appeal to me and I haven't looked.

This is the kind of freeback I really really want!! alos, I may not update this until the next patch it out

Okay, the grapplers, noo! no more armour, it's part of the whole, these are still pirates thing, pirates need to run around their ship doing stuff and they can't do that in heavy armour and yes! the blood guards a very strong, I thought I should increase there cost a bit, I might up it to 25.

... well uh, I sorta forgot about scouts, heh silly me! I'll put that in next update.

Yeah, I think I've got an idea as to why, I may mesh together a few ideas.

Huh, I didn't know you could only ever sail across one thing of water!! that just means they move super fast on land, gah!! I'll make then a little different, something more suiting to the name Dread Captain as well.

Now the only reason I haven't added more is that, I don't know how and I'm kinda reluctant to learn how, but I'll have a look since you asked.

Yes I will be making at least three national heroes, and EarthRaver, I'm not sure about making those kind of heroes, this isn't the exact same concept as that, but I'll look into the flying dutchman sorta thing.

[Morkilus]

Nice mod!

Here are a couple things:

Why would I get the Pirate when I can get a Pirate Harpooner for 1 extra resource? The 1 less morale and attack doesn't really concern me. Perhaps make them a bit more expensive, or Pirates a bit cheaper? If Regular Joe Pirate had less resource-hogging armor, I could also mass them and they would have their own niche. Right now I would never use them.

Pirate Lords are... bizarre. Would it make sense for them to have a bit of priestly power as well? I usually only get two paths, but the possibility for who-knows-what is pretty exciting http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Is there a reason there is no blessable unit? It seems the Redguard might be a good choice, and it would limit the number recruitable so you don't get "elites only" armies.

Wind Channelers seem kind of meh for their cost - at least in comparison to the Arcanists, who are awesome. I think I'd only recruit one if I was very low on gold. If the Arcanists were capitol-only, it would make it a much more difficult choice, though the nation would be significantly weaker.

One other thing I would add - and this might just be me - would be an Animal Trader or something that freespawned various exotic pets for the pirates. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Burnsaber]

I just had a couple of quite looney ideas while I was at work. (It can get quite boring once in a while and your mind starts to wonder).

I remembered how some guys tried to make a stelthy Gluttony 100 unit to hog opponent's supplies. It didn't work, so I'm quite sure that the opposite (a scout unit with supply bonus) won't supply enemy. This makes one unit possible. Smuggler. He's your basic average scout, but with a thematic reason to have sailing. Plus, I was thinking he could have supply bonus of 20-30 (you know, they can smuggle some food where-ever your army is). Thye would also be useful in sieges, where they can smuggle food to the castle. (I know, stolen form G.R.R Martin's book). Perhaps they could have some leadership (20?) and you could make a "Thug" unit (lowly armored, cheap, stealthy because they blend in with the masses) to have some stealth power.

I also got a bizarre pretender idea (If you don't know how to mod pretender choises them, why not just ask someone?). A magical star which has always led Free Porters home that has descended down form heavens to lead his favourite city to glory! He could be like this nations own "Baphtomet" or "Glowing Glyph". Immobile, Ethereal, reasonably and cheap good magic. (like S2,A2), The graphic wouldn't probably be too tough to make.

[Juzza]

I like the idea of the smuggler, and the pretender seems pretty good, I'll keep this stuff in mind, but I probably won't get much of it done till the weekend comes.

[Juzza]

Okay, didn't ever get around to making my own pretenders but! I have added some to the selection!!! eeeee!! exciting! I also, change the dread captains and gave the Pirate lords a better story, and changed the pirate lords magic ever so slightly, I also increased the cost of blood guards and added the Smuggler!

Uuuum, still no heros, thats next on the ol' agenda.

[Humakty]

As they use mercenaries, they could have a kind of shock medium cavalry, as the Italian mercenary bands which were common (in Italy) at the medieval time.

[Juzza]

Hmm, good idea!!!!! I have to do that when I add all the heroes! except, I do want to do something different with them, I want them to be a bit slower than normal horses, it's what a life at sea'll do to horse, yes, though, to make those animations is gonna be a bit tough! but I love a challenge!

Thanks for motivating me!!

[Juzza]

Ooooh! I just came up with the most awesome thing!!! I did make some cavalry, but it looks kinda bland, buut! I was making a hero and I thought, heey! I could use this for a unit! though, I'd like some opinions on weather I should make it a hero or a unit permanently. And any balancing issues and weather or not I should make the mount survive when the rider is dead, check it out!!!!!!

[Burnsaber]

I downloaded the new version and tried it out a bit. And here are my thoughts;

- I started bulding a fort on a Mountain province. Free Ports idea of a mountain port seems to be "Forest Rampants".
Probably not intentational?

- Smuggler is definately (IMHO) overprized. Basic Scout is 20 gold. Add 10 gold for stealth +10 and 10 gold for the supply bonus (I wouldn't pay more for it, at least) and you get a 50 gp unit.

- The new descriptions are cool and were clear of typoes, but weren't too well structured. The description for the Pirate Lord consists of two super-long sentences. Hmm, instead of always just *****ing about them, I could actually offer to do something concrete. If you don't mind, I could offer my helping hand in this issue. Since my pen-and-paper RPG group fell apart, I've been itching to do some minor creative writing.

- The new added pretenders are cool. I just think Lord of Fertility doesn't fit thematically. They're city folk afterall, what do they know about Nature? Why would they worship nature deity?

I'm writing this work, and it's getting busy out here. Í'll write the rest once I have more time.

[Juzza]

nah! it's okay to be complaining about it. I always do mess up sentences like that.

But it's the serpents I reeally want feedback on.

[Juzza]

Burnsaber? were you gonna give me some feedback on the serpent riders??

[Burnsaber]

Juzza said:
Burnsaber? were you gonna give me some feedback on the serpent riders??



Umm.. Serpent Riders? Color me confused. Is it a unit or a summon? I redownloaded the mod, but couldn't find them in the spell lists. I've been playing some more and I'm bruising MA agartha at the moment. I got a E1W1S1D1 Pirate Lord a while back. He's sweet.

I still have more to write, but I'll have to go work in a moment. I'll be back tonight!

[Juzza]

did you redownload it after I made

"Ooooh! I just came up with the most awesome thing!!! I did make some cavalry, but it looks kinda bland, buut! I was making a hero and I thought, heey! I could use this for a unit! though, I'd like some opinions on weather I should make it a hero or a unit permanently. And any balancing issues and weather or not I should make the mount survive when the rider is dead, check it out!!!!!! "

that post??

[Burnsaber]

Oh, I can see them now. They seem quite cool -> for balancing them, I suggest taking look at Sombre's "Arga Dis"-mod. It has balanced recruitable fear troops. You should comapare the Serpents to them.

Althought I have enjoyed palying the nation so far, I have a small gripe with it. Pirate Lords & Dread Captains are cool, but still the nation lacks a certain "oomph" thematically. I feel that it should be a bit more "piratey". I'm NOT talking about limp dudes with parrots and "y'arr"'s, but I feel that the nation should be a bit more disorderly.

When I think of a city ruled by pirates, I think of a city made with vice & debauchery. Think of a darkest, seeping watering-hole near a harbor and extend it to a whole city. Perhaps you have different idea about it (I'm quite sure you do since you gave them resource & gold bonuses at capitol).

If you want to go for a bit more "piratey" route, I'd like to suggest something along Thugs (I mentioned these earlier), Cutthroats (low cost assasin) and Crime Lords (these could all kinds of weird [censored], think of a mafia boss-> spy, summons thugs, etc..)

But the "tamed sea monsters" idea has merit, they could give the nation a unique feel. You'd just have to be careful that the naton wouldn't start to revolve around them. You could perhaps do some national summons on that area? Asp Turtles with Howdah's occupied with 10 crossbowmen! They'd be like medieval tanks.

But enough of that, I'll now move to other issues.

1) I feel that Dread Captains are overpriced. a d2 mage for 180 gold? Sure they are Amphibious, but still. 180 gold for D2? Currently I recruit one to do "Dark Knowledge" and then completely forget about them. They also still have mapmove 4. They need to be more badass to justify their gold cost.

[Juzza]

ahh thanks, I've made lots of fixes in most areas. I increased their cost by 50 and I might go even more their pretty good. I've also made the serpent fight on the for the rest of the battle, once the rider is dead. I like the idea of the Cutthroats, I'll need to post my other replies later, in a rush.

[Horst F. JENS]

That's a nice mod. It reminds me of the nice Dwarf Pirate mod.
I would love to see some units throwing knives and maybe nets. And i miss a hero with an eye-pecking parrot :-)

For historic reasons, i think that (iron) ring-armor was too heavy for duty on ships. Maybe some sort of leather armor would be more thematic.. of course that means the pirates need some sort of shield or national Air-Shield spell.

The merc's are very fine made.

[Juzza]

Well, considering the ring mail curases don't give any decrease in defence or increase in encumbrance, I think it's okay for them.

Knives, maybe, I would like to add at least two more units hopefully with very low res cost, so they can be sorta levied fast.

[Burnsaber]

I've played a bit more now. I just conquered MA Agarthas capitol and I'm starting to think that Blood Guards might still be a tad too good. Agarthan Infantry didn't even stand a chance. I'd suggest lowering their hps a bit (to 12?), 14 is a bit too epic. Ulm are supposed to be as rough as humans get, and they have only 12hp.

I noticed that the Serpent is a tad underpriced, but you've seem to take care of that. They're no super-power however, huge size, low numbers, and average mr is not a good combination http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif. But good for suppoting your infatry as instant thugs. Maybe you could have a commander version that could go underwater ("the guys who hunt below the waves for the Serpents")?

Reanimate Captain is overpriced and requies too much death magic. Why pay 6 death gems and 3d mage time for a "Revive King"? Reanimate Buccaneers is fine, they allow for a underwater conquest, perhaps a tad (like 1-2 death gems) cheaper, sice you don't have much early death income.

I had an idea for a hero. A beefed up Pirate Lord with W2S2D3. His story; When Dread Captains did the ritual and died they didn't reappear immediately. It seemed that they were gone forever. But one newly-born Pirate Lord wanted to harness their still excisting power. So he traveled to the nether-world and sailed it's seas for seven years until he had found all of the dead Dread Captains and brought them back to serve Free Port. His travels to the Netherworld aged him premately, though (so he's old).