A new spectacular multi-layer map!! Wanna try??

[Aezeal]

Yes, my map is finished. It's a fantastic map and I think 8-10 players should fit on it nicely.

(for those living here.. yes it's the one I was asking advice for.)

-multilayered map
-about 300 provinces
-The mountains on the "earth" part of the map are sticking through the clouds (you can see the tips of em on the "cloud" part of the map. The highest mountain sticks through a middle cloud layer up to the highest layer.
-Caves lead down or up in the earth, sometimes multiple levels
-Rainbows are a connection to the "cloud" levels
-Deep parts of the sea might lead to even deeper sea's under the earth.

I would like people to try the map a bit to check for errors. I played on it a bit and it seemed good.

This isn't what I intend to be the or a "final" version.
Things needed to be done:
-I keep reading about programs which make it so that only provs with 4 neighbours etc are used as starting sites. I'll look into that.
-I would like to create 2-3 startpositions with fixed races
(Vanaheim on top of the large mountain) Niflheim or Abyssia (but I read that the AI might not be good with Abyssia EA) each with a decently build Pretender + outfit and scales to match. The last would probably be sea based, I'm thinking MA R'lyeh (also with a nice Pretender and some outfit).
-Some special locations with a thuggish defender and a large number of troops (which preferably don't fluctuate like normal. These would most likely be on spots where you travel from "plane to plane"

and maybe later a new division in more provinces.

So that much for advertising etc.

Now my questions:
1. CAN YOU ALL PLEASE PLAY THE MAP (preferably mulitplayer (just cus it prolly gives more and faster insight to problems) but single player is great to of course.)

2. Do you see problems in the things I want to do with the map (can one set the races as I want too, and more specifically can you set races from different ages on one map. (the player should just be able to choose an age and go from there.. only those 3 players should have fixed race, pretender and start position))

3. Can you tell me which program will be best for making the nostart provinces for land based provs with < 4 LANDneighbours and seaprovs with < 3 SEAneighbours AND at least like 3-4 provs away from each other. (I think this is something pretty standard but I have no clue)

4. Can anyone of you help me with the whole scripting part?

5. Is there anyone who hosts maps or should I just attach it? (I'm doing this anyway (zip-ped) but no idea if it's permanent )

Attachment updated for the erroneous sea tags on land provs

[Zylithan]

Aezeal - As I said elsewhere, I'm up for collaborating, etc. This map sounds cool. I'm hoping to post a map in a day or two, then I'll be out of town for a week. I'll certainly playtest your map and give you feedback. If you're up for checking out mine as well I'd appreciate it much.

[Aezeal]

Sure if it's not an unreasonable large map I could certainly try a single player campaign on it. (Though I must say I might not see whole of the map cus if I have 50% of it I might call it quits http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif the last part is boring and if you already have 50%.. not like you gonna lose anymore right.)

Anyway I'd read your reply in my other thread but I just made this thread to put the final version in a nice and tidy thread.

Another question I had based on things I want to do as described above:
6. Can you use a pretender + outfit as thug/spellcaster in a independant province? (I'm thinking a monolith with good casting abilities AND the spells surrounded by some lower level mages AND chaff to boost or just as fodder http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif)

7. Can you make it so the strength of a independant province doesn't fluctuate (I want no easy shots at those thugs with equipment.

Any help in testing and answering questions will be much apreciated.

Aezeal

[PashaDawg]

That's a neat map.

What kind of provinces are in the clouds and underground?

Pasha

[Aezeal]

in clouds mostly nothing special, the mountains are mountain and with the rainbow it's farm, and some multi magic sites

under earth it's all cave or cave/swamp, cave/mountain, cave/bordermountain.

I must admit I never played in a cave so I have no idea if this is not fun or unbalanced for a race (if so that race might be the race I put there instead of Niflheim... but comp on niflheim shouldn't go wrong that fast if I make a pretender for him.. and having a comp send niflgiants at me just seemed fun http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif. If I can/or someone can implement that for me then another advantage I want to give is a few large cities surrounding their capital.. but that is for later http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif And they shouldn't be TOO strong cus in 2 steps your on "earth" from up the mountain and you don't want them at your door in 2 steps if they have a huge advantage.
(but for that I want to place someone halfway up the mountain anyway.. and on the rainbow leading DIRECTLY down to earth.)

Ideally there would even be only specific races as independents in the clouds and the upper cloud and lowest underearth thingie might become nostart provs any way.. to give comp room to explore and some room between players and normal AI and those "AI" with advantage.

But that is for later cus I dun even know how to make it so you get a start up with 1 human, 1 fixed vanaheim, 1 fixed rýhel or whatevern and the fixed niflheim and then adding AI's if you want. --> if you know.. tell me.. if you can script it for me.. even better.

anyway .. plz play the map as it is Pasha? and let me know what you think.

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

Agartha in a cave = love
Also would work nicely for several undead or night-vision oriented races.

Would love to provide feedback, though I'm currently trying to get two games started. I am picking up a small amount of map modding and commands along the way. If someone doesn't get around to you immediately, I'll be along in a while. Probably Sunday this week or next.

I will say I'm extremely interested in playing on this map.

[Aezeal]

Thanks, I don't wanna screw up this map so I've started, and for graphics also finished a new one last 2-3 hours.. it actually looks much better since it doesn't use much "make-up" but just a few basic patterns which come with GIMP but which look better than just plan colors.

I did a wrap-aroudn cus demand seemed to be high for those.
I'll try to make the white dots tomorrow then I'll post it and try some things in the .MAP file for that one (I need less specific and difficult stuff for that one.

So: coming soon a
-wrap around
-mostly water!! (really should only play with water races)
map

Ow that reminds me it's VERY open now.. I need to use some seaweed as walls to create a few semi-choke points

[Aezeal]

I see 39 DOWNLOADS.. NICE

I'm sure none have finished those campaingns yet but early feedback is appreciated too... let me know anything you want to tell me or others about this map.

Don't be shy!!

Advertising:
My watermap will be nice to once finished, watch the forum

Lazy: Yeha I figured I'd get that answer, I've not yet played agartha but to make them one of the main villains in the map.. I dunno they just don't have the... how ever you call it to be main villains..

Vanaheimwith an AllFather on top of Olympus coming down to rule the world appeals to me. Niflheim coming from under the earth with huge giants and crushing anything in their path too.. if I place Agartha there it just isnt'the same...

[Juzza]

I'm not sure if anyone else noticed but on the sorta middle layer (the normalish one) on one of the smaller islands over to the right side there are a few provinces that look like land provinces on the map but are in reality water provinces.

[Aezeal]

seriously? damn I'll have to change it then

corrected files will be uploaded now

[Juzza]

oooh! also! there were two underground ones like that too! on the first level.

heh sorry if I seem kinda negative of your work, I just noticed the bugs, its a great map! I loooove lots of choke points!

[Aezeal]

hey don't hold back that is what this thread is for to test it so I can improve it.
I'll change them later if I get more thingies to change and feed back on the question below.

a question: I've never played with caves yet is it annoying for a random race (no darkvision) to start in the caves what I read just now somewhere in the forum made me think pplz like that would be seriously screwed http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

If so I'd change the map a bit with the centre most provinces in the caves not marked as cave but just as terrain type, the outermost ones on the edges I'd keep marked as cave but as nostart site too. It would also mean I wouldn't put Niefelheim all the way down in the caves (guess I'd settle for abyssia as badguys then.)

[Juzza]

Until the next patch comes out cave provinces do not have darkness as an effect.

However I'd put my vote to leave the giant cavern as caves.

But what'd be reeeally cool is to have unique provinces with like special monsters and commanders rather than the normal dribble that defends provinces, but I have no idea how complex that is to do.

[Aezeal]

Well this is my first map, the special monsters I'm trying out on another one atm. My plans for the map include such stuff (mostly 2 AI players which get quite some advantage as you could read above) AND on the chokepoints between planes I want to place "guardians"

so I guess that is what you want.. but I'm still learning how to do that.
i asked if there where pplz who wanted to team up with me (e.a. I'd let them do that part) but no one is really interested atm (which I can understand) so I'm trying to learn it myself. I'm currently awaiting an answet in another thread that might help me along a lot.

[Juzza]

I'd help! but I can only do nation modding and unit modding, I haven't attempted map yet, if you want a custom made guardien thing I might be able to help. but you can probably just put some big strong units in there from the vanilla game anyway.

[Endoperez]

Map commands can do amazing things, as long as you know what exists. A Niefelheim/cold based province, as an example, could have Mount Frost site (increases cold scale, water mage may enter to summon winter wolves), or a Fire/Abysia themed province could have Volcano (heat and fire gems).

[Aezeal]

Yeah I personally think the Vanilla game comes with so much (except a "good"ish race in LA) that I don't want to bother pplz to much with mod thugs since everything you want you can easily get the same result with something out of vanilla game.

THe placing of monsters is pretty easy though I did it on the other map and I'll do it here too.

The other thing, making a nicer looking higher resolution map of this map is not a thing I can really do I think.. well I have a few simple idea's for improvements and I'll implement those IF I made enough layers while making this map http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

more layers = better if you want to be able to change stuff.. I'm learning

[jutetrea]

If you want some themed provinces, try ballbarian's semirandomizer and ask if you can use some of the GANs (stuff like crom's mountain might work, I think there are about 40+ of them)

Or you could just use it to create your own special provinces, themed or otherwise (If you think they're worth it, submit them to the overall GAN list) (GAN=just a name for specialized provinces, I believe coming from GANdalf Parker)

Are you uploading the newest version to the first post?

[Aezeal]

Yeah I could just place the monsters I want myself.. in the end I would only need a few of those anyway to guard the chockepoints between layers. To prevent to easy travelling between them in the early game. This would mostly be to prevent rushing those 2 races I want to give an advantage.

On the other hand rushing races that start with an advantage might not happen anyway and the guard might only hinder them.. but if they are much stronger then protecting the players against them wouldn't hurt either http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif..

and it would be somewhat balanced anyway cus even though you might loose some troops there you'd gain some sites and items for it either the AI or a player

There would be no need for specific magic sites on those specific places.. I like randomness a lot and just checking many sites appeals more to me.

Now my wrap around water map is done and I got the placing troop thingie under control (somewhat) I should be able to update this map again with the new learned skills http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

A question for those who have done a bit on this map:
1. I think this map is nice for about 7-10 players now. do you agree?

2. Wouldn't it be nicer to have the option to play ALL race on this map (which would mean MORE provinces)?

3. IF I would split all or most existing provinces to create a map with more provinces would the provinces be to small then? or do you think it would still be playable?

4. Would it annoy people if certain races (not those which would be AI only but those who would be AI OR player) would start in a specific place (I'm mostly thinking Caelum on one of the mountains) I can see that player might not like the fact that everyone know where they'll be while most other races would just get a random start location... but having Cealum start on earth or even worse in the caves totally makes no sense to me.

5. Does anybody know a sort of pattern database? As you can see in my wrap aroudn water map (other thread) Working in GIMP with patterns works very well and a nice "earth" pattern, fields pattern, grass pattern, hills pattern etc etc might improve the graphics of the map A LOT.

and no offence meant the standard in game hills/forest/mountains I copy pasted aren't all that in graphics too. I'm not much of an artist myself but if anyone knows BETTER LOOKING hills/trees/mountains to cut n paste (or even better on a transparant background already ready to paste http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif) I'd be happy to use it to improve the map.

[Juzza]

sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but I found another bad province!

I'll just list the bad provinces that haven't been fixed yet.

Underground, first level, there are two water provinces that are not actually water provinces, only cave.

Main Land, big eastern island, one of the mountains is labeled as a sea province.

You may just wanna check some of the more important provinces yourself, and by more important I mean the transition provinces.

Ah, to answer your questions in my opinion!!

1. It's nice, personally I prefer smaller maps, if I had my way, I'd crop the clouds off, but lots more people than me like bigger maps.

2.No, I prefer to keep the game in the proper ages.

3.I don't like that idea, if ya do it, you should release or at least keep the map with bigger provinces. So have them separately named and such.

4.I like that idea, agartha in the caves, cealum in the sky, other nations that need somewhat less specific thing, like say abysia, should start in a waste, Machacka, in a mountain or forest, or both, Man in a Forest, and so on, dependent on the nation.

5.Yes *shifty eyes* ... no ...

[jutetrea]

So, just started trying this out. 9 player EA.

My opinions: Its almost too big for me SP as is, I'm more of a 180-220, 8-10 player guy.

I like how the mountains pop up into the clouds, didn't notice it initially and lost an expansion opportunity and gained an unwanted neighbor.

Should the bottom left cloud connect with the bottom right cloud?

Textures would definitely go a long way to improve the map, I like the shape a lot so far (stuck in the clouds as of now)

I'm always up for more specials, a few big provinces with difficult defenders but big rewards and a bunch of little intro pieces. I think I'll be randomizing this one in the future.

If you use specials as guards, just give the fixed AI enough room to expand rapidly before running into them, otherwise they'll just throw dumb armies and waste them instead of bulking up.

[Aezeal]

yeah that is my intention the one fixed AI would get the top could layer (nostart all of it)

and the other one would probably start in one of the small ones below but with quite some no start around maybe even the whole bigger layer below.

What I would like is an option to let players know the "background" of the provinces. I mean all those nicely thought out province in the province editor are nice but will you really understand what they mean if you are playing or just bash them and notice a nice reward?

If I put a guardian somewhere I'd like to tell him what he'd guarding and why, and wether he's a noble warrior or an EVIL bastard

[Yerevans]

really like this one, the forced passages have a great strategy value, but now that i have a 3 year game i found the land/sea bug, i got the first version...well going to download the last one

[Aezeal]

There is a new version coming up with a bit better graphics (use of patterns) but I have to redo the whole landtyping and neighbouring (somehow I lost THE crucial XCF file and the dile I needed to change I only had without layers..) I'll do that but not this week (VERY important job interview coming up.. my chances are not very high but I have to put al effort into preparing for it) after that I'll do it I'll add guardians etc etc

Thanks for the reply though, nice to know people like it.
I actually can't force myself to play it as of yet.. I have all htese plans and playing it without them.. I can't get myself to do it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif.. but thanks for testing

so the overall LAYOUT fo the map is acceptable..
ratio water land is good?
not to open?
not to much bottle necks etc?

PS jutetreae I meant all races of ONE age.. I just meant MORE provinces so you could fit 20 players on the map

[chrispedersen]

Hey Aezeal


Great Map - however territory 191... which looks like a mountain, has tritons...

Chris

[Aezeal]

hmmm thanks for the information if I do an update I'll adjust that