Mongoose - Starting (at last!)

[llamabeast]

It's been quite a while since I ran a game for new/newish players - so I thought I would get one going. This game will run on my automated PBEM server ( www.llamaserver.net (http://www.llamaserver.net) ).

This'll be an MA game, played on a modified version of Parganos I've made (attached). It's similar to the normal Parganos map, but I've reassigned the terrain types a bit to make it a bit fairer (so one person doesn't start in an endless swamp, for instance).

There's room for 7 land nations and one water nation.

The timer will be on 24 hour quickhost (i.e. it hosts when all turns are in or after 24 hours, whichever is sooner). Once we reach mid game and the turns start to take longer the timer can be extended to 48 hours if people prefer.

Required level of newishness: Up to you! If you don't feel it would be unfair to play against new players, you're welcome. Probably you'll have played 0, 1 or 2 MP games or so.

Please post and say what nation you'd like! Make sure you read other people's posts to check your nation hasn't already been taken.

If this game overflows I can always start another, as well.

The nations are:

Marignon - Hardfelt
R'lyeh - Sensori
Ermor - Aezeal
Pangaea - BigandScary
Abysia - fabio80mi
Ulm - Eldanesh
Arcoscephale - Loren
Caelum - WonderLlama

[forsooth]

Sounds like fun. I'll play.

Count me in as Pythium.

[Hardfeldt]

This could be fun to try. I have never played any MP games before, so this will be a good learning experience!

Sign me up as Marignon. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Loren]

I'm in. I'll get back later with my nation.

[Chicanist]

i'd be interested...i'll try machaka.

[Redfrog]

Edit: Decided I'd better not play after all

[Aezeal]

I want in, let me think about a nation

[Sensori]

I haven't played any MA games yet (plus I don't ever do serious SP games, I don't find them fun), and I sort of find myself disliking the excessive competitiveness that shows as insane aggressiveness towards all neighbors at all times of the "regular" games which isn't very conductive to having fun nor even learning how to play the nation effectively... Which is why I wanna play in this game. As for the nation, I'd like to be R'lyeh.

Edited for realizing that there can only be one water nation.

[Aezeal]

MA Ermor for me then

[BigandScary]

I'm in, put me down for Pangea

[llamabeast]

Okay, I've added details of the timings (24 hour quickhost) to the first post, and noted down everyone's nations.

34259987 - sure you don't want to play?

We now have space for one more.

[fabio80mi]

Mmm i'll try it too if it is still possible.
For the nation i'll get back to you in the next 12 hours

A few questions though :

-Will any mods be used ? (reduced old age, worthy heroes, epic heroes , ecc ? )
-Version of the game? latest i guess

[llamabeast]

Okay cool, we're full.

Mods, nope, none. Some like worthy heroes are nice, but don't make a huge difference and I thought I would make it as simple as possible for a newbie game.

Right, you can now start uploading your pretenders. Here's how:

- Make sure you don't have any pretender-affecting mods (e.g. Conceptual Balance) enabled
- Go to Game Tools -> Create a pretender god in Dominions
- Go to the savedgames/newlords folder in the dominions directory, and find your pretender file (e.g. mid_pythium_0.2h)
- E-mail the file to: pretenders[ at ]llamaserver[ dot ]net
- Crucially, you must have the game name in the subject line of your e-mail

You can see the status of the game (who's joined so far) at www.llamaserver.net (http://www.llamaserver.net) .

If you're not playing and are sorry you missed out on this, please still post - if I get much interest I'll start an overflow game.

[fabio80mi]

i'll go with abysia - blood and fire http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
Unfortunatly i have to log out now (work) , likely u'll see my pretender for this evening!

[Eldanesh]

I'll play if there is still room, my game is dieing.

[WonderLlama]

Darn, I'm too late.

If a spot opens up, I'd like in. Caelum sounds good to me out of what's left.

[Chicanist]

hm. you know what, i'll yield my spot. i may be busy for the next two or three weeks and i can always join the next game that gets started.

thanks!

[llamabeast]

Okay, Eldanesh can go in this game, and I'll start a second game up later today. WonderLlama can be player #1 in the new game, and I'll save a spot for Chicanist as well.

Eldanesh & Loren - please choose nations and submit your pretenders.

[Sensori]

Hey Llama, could I have my start position placed into the smaller sea? While this one's larger and is as such better on paper, it's also damn snaky and makes any fast defense nigh impossible (no 2 province movement through sea provinces). Unlike everyone else, I'd HAVE to have an nation that goes through everyone's lands. Instead, I'd like to have the option rather than be forced to do it. I think that's why Oceania was originally placed in the smaller sea bit - at least it has some level of cohesion.

[llamabeast]

Nope, just 8 players, I'll start a new one for WonderLlama and any other takers.

With regard to the sea - my thinking was that being the only water nation you'll be at a considerable advantage, especially as entering the sea is tricky at the best of times and presumably more so for new players. Also R'lyeh is a powerful nation. If you were in the bottom left, whoever was near you would be pretty stuffed. So I think it is probably more balanced to have you in the middle. You will still probably be pretty safe (the other players will probably have to form an alliance to attack you), and if necessary you may have to turn to diplomacy yourself.

[Sensori]

Hey, I understand that. I just think being all snaky will, instead of being conductive to diplomatic relations, force me to be aggressive as opposed to using said diplomacy, which is something I don't really like. You know, it puts a whole lot of pressure on me that wouldn't be there if my home was securely behind a few water provinces. But if you want to keep R'lyeh where it is now, well, it's your choice.

Ermor, too, is very strong, mind, and has relatively easy access to water. Pythium is just strong. And so forth. I hope you have taken steps to nerf them in similar fashion. ;p

Like, at least put Ermor's start loc awayyy from the water!

[Aezeal]

Ermor has relatively easy acces once I can get my commanders to breath water... and since I have water mages (or shoudl ahve) forging somestuff should be easy.

but RELATIVELY easy still means it sucks though...

[Potatoman]

I'm interested in playing in another game, if there's space.

[Sensori]

So we're missing Loren, Forsooth and Eldanesh for pretenders, huh?

Me wants to play already. ;(

[fabio80mi]

It seems so !

Loren,forsooth,eldanesh if you have trouble (maybe with uploading the pretenders) let us know!!!


For llama :
First of all thanks for organizing those newbie games http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Mmm a question for future games, i take it once u upload a pretender u can't resend it later with some tweakings right ?

[llamabeast]

fabio - yep, you can resend your pretender if you want to make some changes. So long as it comes from the same e-mail address it will be happy.

Potatoman - cool, I will start organising the new game today then (since I failed yesterday), and put you down for it.

Will also PM Loren, Forsooth and Eldanesh later on.

[WonderLlama]

Excellent. If we do get a second game going, I'd prefer no water nations, and Caelum. But if there must be water nations, I'd like Ryleh.

Is everything on your sever done by email, Llamabeast?

[fabio80mi]

Outstanding!
I've sent my new pretender file and i received an automatic notification for it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif)

Very good server scripting there llamabeast! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Aezeal]

if they do'n't react in 24 hours plz replace them with the others.. It's been like 2-3 days now right? if they don't react now how will it be in the game? (No offence guys I don't know you pplz and just wnat teh game started with active players http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif)

[llamabeast]

Fair point Aezeal, okay I will wait to start the second game until everyone in this game has joined successfully. Sorry for the delay WonderLlama and Potatoman.

Will PM Loren, Forsooth and Eldanesh now.

[Eldanesh]

I shall take to the field as ulm.

[Aezeal]

So ULM login and then we get 2 new players and we can get started.. I'm pretty exited http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[llamabeast]

Whoah, it's started! Who's playing Jotunheim and Arcoscephale? Did Forsooth change nations or did someone else leap in?

[llamabeast]

PS On 48 hours for first turn in case of problems - after that it'll be on a 24 hour timer (but will host before that if everyone gets their turns in).

[llamabeast]

Oh, hang on, looks like a cock-up, Loren seems to have both Arco and Jotunheim. I'll restart the game.

[Sensori]

Llama, you can check their email addresses, right? See if there's a hint there?

[llamabeast]

Good thinking Sensori, that's what I thought to do just after I posted - hence finding two Lorens!

[Sensori]

... Two Lorens? Guess we get a restart, then. ;p

EDIT: and when I made that post, you hadn't posted yet. Weird timing. :-D

I guess you're gonna use the Pretender Loren sent the last, right? Lawl. ;p

Oh yeah, and that's one thing you could add to Llamaserver, people should not be able to put in two Pretenders into one game, would stop this from happening altogether.

[llamabeast]

Just asking him/her which he wants.

I'm beginning to think it might be a good idea to get WonderLlama in on this game and move Forsooth to the next. I'll PM the pretender llama now.

[Sensori]

Hey Llama, for some reason your bot resent me the turn file. It's still full, I'm guessing that's the prob.

And as I said earlier, I think you could add something to the Llamaserver to stop people from sending 2 pretenders into 1 game - would stop these things from happening altogether.

[Eldanesh]

It's giving me an error saying someone is already ulm 8/

[Sensori]

Jesus, someone else took Ulm after you said you'd be Ulm?

What the hell is gong on?

[Aezeal]

lol can't we just let the supervisor of this thread take care fo that .. send him the file and he can kill hte other one

[Eldanesh]

sadly I don't have llama's e-mail

[Sensori]

It's right at

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=550275&page=0&view=co llapsed&sb=5&o=&vc=1

That's right on this thread.

[Eldanesh]

Yes, I have that one, it's the one that's rejecting my file.

[llamabeast]

My address is the same, but 'llamabeast' instead of 'turns'. Anyway, I've got access to all the accounts. I'm going to sort out the chaos in a couple of hours, and hopefully get the game started (I think everyone's sent in at least one pretender now!).

[llamabeast]

And we're started! Hurrah! Many apologies about the delays and confusion. I've been less able than normal to keep things organised because I've just moved house and don't have internet access at home yet.

You should all have received an e-mail with the first turn in it, which also contains rough instructions on what to do. More details can be found if necessary in the LlamaServer FAQ, which should be linked in my signature. But basically it's very straightforward, just take your turn and send the 2h file back to the e-mail address you got the trn file from. You don't have to put any text in the heading or body of the e-mail.

Enjoy the game guys. The first turn has a 48 hour deadline in case of problems, and after that we're on a 24 hour timer (note that the time will move forward if people all get their turns in early).

[llamabeast]

PS Look at the first post for final line-up and nation assignments. In recent changes/additions Loren's got Arco, Eldanesh Ulm and WonderLlama Caelum.

[fabio80mi]

Woot!!! Great news!

No need to apologize u need a great job setting up the server!
Can't wait to get back home from work to take my first turn!

[llamabeast]

Alright guys, tips for a fun game:

- Engage in lots of diplomacy. It's fun. Send messages to your neighbours, preferably in the character of your nation. Make threats, deals and alliances. One thing though - if you actually agree to a deal (such as peace for n turns, or exchanging items), do stick to it, otherwise you are likely to upset other players and make the game unfun.
- Post in-character stuff on this thread. See Tuidjy's posts on the "Neo Xekinima" thread for an excellent example of this. I really enjoy reading that thread.

People always say the most fun games are the ones with lots of messages flying around and posts on the forum. Silent games are fun too, but miss out on one cool element of multiplayer play - they're a bit more like single player versus very competent AIs.

[llamabeast]

And another PS - you shouldn't need anything like 48 hours for the first turn, try to all get it done ASAP, it's nice if the game moves fast at the start.

[Loren]

Sensori said:
... Two Lorens? Guess we get a restart, then. ;p

EDIT: and when I made that post, you hadn't posted yet. Weird timing. :-D

I guess you're gonna use the Pretender Loren sent the last, right? Lawl. ;p

Oh yeah, and that's one thing you could add to Llamaserver, people should not be able to put in two Pretenders into one game, would stop this from happening altogether.



Actually, he's using the one I sent first which is the one I wanted.

The problem is that the server was sending back a confusing reply that I misinterpreted as saying that my nation was rejected when in reality it was something else wrong that had nothing to do with my file.

I figured someone else had grabbed my nation (I hadn't declared any intent here, that certainly could have happened and the nation I picked did show up as a picked nation in the reply) and so I picked a new nation.

[Eldanesh]

Yeah.. after last game I will be looking for lots of allies. Anyways I must say thsi is an interesting way to run a game.

[Janlm]

was there going to spawn another game from this?

[fabio80mi]

Can't wait to start meeting my neighbours and possibly do some diplomacy stuff, imo the diplomacy aspect is the thing that really makes mp experience so much more enjoyable!

[llamabeast]

JanIm - I was going to, but since Chicanist is busy for a couple of weeks and I can't get hold of Forsooth (the other excess player) I thought I would leave it a couple of weeks. Would you like in?

[llamabeast]

First turn is just waiting on Ermor/Aezeal.

[Aezeal]

what does the crown mean?

PS 2nd turn is waiting on the rest of you http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Aezeal]

Proclamation from Ermor:

It's clear that the nation of Ermor is designed for greatness...

Fate has seen our inevitable victory and decided to even to odds a bit for the other, lesser, nations. Propaganda from other nations has caused some unrest in our province, hampering tax collections but fear not... we will overcome

In our divine benevolence, we want to let the other nations know that we are a peacefull empire and we think a live and let live policy can benefit all nations. We hope we can make peace with our neighbours while we get to know eachother. Time will learn which neighbours are worthy, in wisdom and strenght, of longterm peacefull relations.

So sayeth the wise emperor of Ermor, devote follower of Aezeal our god, to whom the whole world should bow and sacrifice young maidens

[Loren]

Arcoscephale seconds Ermor. My attitude is peace until you show yourself not worthy of it.

[BigandScary]

Post deleted by BigandScary

[Janlm]

yeah i'd like that lama, thank you http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Aezeal]

I must say it's annoying to have riots in turn 2, I've not been able to build my grand theurgs for 2 turns

[fabio80mi]

[English is not my native language so i'll try to be straighforward]

Proclamation of intention from Abysia : Turn 3

Abysia is a growing nation seeking to expand his borders, it will engage diplomacy with his neighbours if it furthers our interest.
Particularly abysia will seek long terms naps and alliances with empire versed in blood/fire magic ,cold nations will be tolerated only to a point.

Abysia will respond very well to friendly messages and trades and will not tolerate threats of any kind nor any objections to our methods (sacrifice of virgins, burning forests, ecc http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif )
Ignoring our messages will be considered an insult and dealt with accordingly.

For water nations abysia has no interest in them and will leave them alone

[Aezeal]

Ermor recognises the clear words of Abysia and in case our growing empires are located next to eachother peacefull talks will commence for further glory of our empires if you prove worthy. Our enemies will tremble.

[Zylithan]

I'm also too late to join it seems. Missed it on vacation. If a spot opens up, perhaps... or another game.

[Aezeal]

I'd like to request some extra time tomorrow to return my file (I might do another one tomorrow morning (europe) but after that I will not be home > 24 hours since I have a job interview which is extremely important to me. So next turn or tunr after that will take me >24 hours. This will not be a habit of mine

[Aezeal]

Fate smiles on Ermor... Fate itself fears our god.. to compensate for the injustice of the riots it gave us the very first turn it now send an able scytewielding commander to the gates of our great capital. This puts us right back on track and we have now started research in the greatest magics. Our dominion continues to grow and the borders of our empire to expand.. we have even seen the banner of our very first neighbour fly over a nearby province. A messenger has been send with words of peace and perhaps alliance if they are deemed worthy in the future.

So proclaims the Divine Emperor, follower of Aezeal our god, wisest of men, benevolent ruler of Ermor to whom the whole world should bow with their faces, in the dust for as dust they are in the face of our emperor and even less in the face of our god.

[Aezeal]

PS as of now I'll be gone for 24-30 hours.. plz don't let the next turn go over without me sending in...

[Aezeal]

I thought I'd send turn 6 ( I have actually I checked) but no reply mail or adjustment on the site.. I resend it now.. if it doesn't take it now I won't even have turn 6 send in... so please get turn 6 in correct for me... AND then wait a bit longer for turn 7 I'll try to attach the turn in a prvt message to our host

[llamabeast]

I'll add 12 hours to the timer for Aezeal, hope that's about right.

[Aezeal]

should be fine I should be able to play about... 15 hours from now so that would probably have been just withing 24 hours.. but I couldn't know when turn 6 was completed.

I like the game.. to bad I had a lil bad start due misfortune.. but this turn made up for that.

[fabio80mi]

Lucky you!
Last turn was a complete disaster for me :-((

Still it's a nice game and in a little while we may start seeing something interesting

[Aezeal]

well having incoem halved first turn when you want ot build 340 gold grand theurgs isn't all that either.. next turn I still couldn't build one... I'm really still one grand theurg behind schedule.. which means less research or less site exploration.

[Aezeal]

hmm indies getting fewer and fewer..

[BigandScary]

oh, all you people with your schedules and your perfect plans of perfect blesses and perfect dominions. Live life like a leaf. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Aezeal]

THE ERMOR GAZETTE

No bystanders, no independants.. all lands must choose sides.
Near the Empire of Ermor there are only 2 independant provinces left. They will almost certainly be taken by our glorious Empire. In the mountains of Madness there has risen a 3th independant province a province of Pangaea located there was conquered by a DARK KNIGHT. Our glorious Emperor has decided that ending that reign of tyranny will be for another day since those mountains are not important.

The nations on our continent
The landmass our glorious Empire is located on seems to have a very high number of nations located on it. I have seen Cealum, Marignon, Arco, Pangaea and our own glorious Kingdom on this landmass.. Since there is one waternation there must only be 2 on the other large(r) landmass.. seems not do nicely divided.

Pangaean Border.. WAR??
Ermor is still at peace with all it's neighbours even though we have accidentaly clashed with Pangaea the last 2 months (which was clearly not the fault of our noble generals or our glorious Emperor)
1. The first conflict could have been easily avoided if Pangaea had heeded our message (which told them we would take the independant province. Sadly they conquered it and then our glorious armies mistook the centaurs for savage illiterate independants. Our armies crushed their enemies whole army with minimal losses.
2. The second event was even more horrible for Pangaea and our heart goes out to them. While conquering a independatn province near our Capitol there where suddenly Pangaean troops in the field which attacked us.. since these lands where clearly in our territory as marked by the mountains surrounding the core of our empire our victorious armies thought it was an uprising and acted accordingly... all 40 Pangaean troops lay dead in the field and so did 3 of ours before the mistake had been noticed.. even more gruesome was the fact that the REAL uprising of the Dark knight (mentioned above) happened in the province where the Pangean army was originally located so all fleeing troops where lost and Pangea LOST a province instead of gained one.

Our heart goes out to all losses of Pangaea the last 2 months, both in provinces as in troops and the fact that Ermor troops, though innocent in all except the fact of actually killing them, where involved. Our Emperor was overheard to have said that he regretted the course of events and mourned for the losses of the green banner and that eventhough 2 battles in 2 months seems like war he wants to stress that relations with the Pangaean leaders are good and that peace is still what both nations desire.

Waterfight?
In the waters on our southeastren border observers have seen a lot of turmoil. Apperanly the fishes there have been slaughtered and conquered by a waterdwelling race from the south. Our glorious leader, skilled in everything and also in languages of all nations, has contacted the fishmen and negotiated peace. The Fishmen will not leave the waters on our borders and a mutual peace has been agreed upon.

[BigandScary]

The Leaders of the Pan Council and their newly awakened leader have been striken by the horror of the last few months. First there were two clashes with our glorious neighbors, Ermor, caused by poor communication on both sides, a mistake that we must not make again. At the same time we were invaded by those supposed "Heroes," as villianous and cruel a group as can be found. Innocent pan levies and priestesses of the Holy Leaves have been slaughtered by these evil creature, along with the innocent bystander that was our hired illusionist. Their deaths will be mourned along with those brave soldiers who died in the "Ermorian Incident."

[Sensori]

Hey Hardfelt, considering how often you end up being the last one we're waiting for, could you start, when you indeed are the last one, doing your current turn and the next turn at once? That way you'd be half of the time first, too!

[Aezeal]

I wanted to say exactly the same as Sensori.. when I'm last I wait 5 min so I can do the new turn.. might be good for Marignon too indeed http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[WonderLlama]

When I was last, and did my last turn and first turn together, some of you guys still beat me. Don't know how you did it. You guys are fast.

[Sensori]

WonderLlama, that's different however! Hardfelt is forcing everyone to almost 24 hour turns when everyone else seems to be done in less than 12. ;/ It's slowing down the game. He could just use 5 more mins and do his new turn right after the earlier one methinks.

[WonderLlama]

I didn't really have a point. I just thought that was an amusing anecdote.

[fabio80mi]

I'd like to ask something about what is considered 'legit' conduct.

You all know if you send messages ingame u'll have to wait 2 turn for an answer, so i ask is it fine to communicate here through pms or mail to set up common strategy and goals ?

[Sensori]

Both ought to be fine. At least I've always used both, but I like PMs in the forums more.

[Hardfeldt]

I'll try and speed up my turns as much as I can. This week has been an extremly packed one, next week will not be so tight.
Some turns can't be made under 15 h though, sleep 6h+work 9h =15h. Since I don't have the luxury of having Dom3 installed at work, this is the time I have. But of course, If I see a new turn in my meil before I go to sleep I'll do that one too.

Sorry for the delays.

[Sensori]

Hehe, it's not a real problem, just that nolifers (like me) get twitchy when turns don't show up in a timely fashion. :-)

[Aezeal]

I actually mostly talk via this forum.. either openly (my gazette) or in PM.. if you do diplomacy it can't be done in ingame messages really...

I'm talking to all my neighbours via PM of this forum.. only logical I thought :d

anyway Hardfeldt... I know ti can be hard to be there as much as some of those in here.. but if you are LAST then the turn is processed so doign the next one would mean all of us can go on and you can just wait another 24 hours for the new one http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Aezeal]

ERMOR HAS BEEN BETRAYED

the treacherous villains of Caelum have betrayed the peace they vowed to and attack our Empire at 4 places.
Ermor requests all neighbours of Cealum to attack the weak borders Caelum must have on their side since all their armies are located IN THE NORTH

Marignon and Acro please attack this traitor and take his land so we all can grow on the lands of the traitor.

[fabio80mi]

Abysia expresses simpaty to the nation of Ermor

However we never heard before of Caelum so there is little we can do about him.

[abysia has also sent some PMS on the forums, please players check if you're a recepient and reply http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif]

[WonderLlama]

Ermor never agreed to the terms of our peace agreement. And repeatedly issued unreasonable border demands. You can cry betrayal all you like, but it is not true.

[Aezeal]

Adding lying to your list of sins isn't goign to help you.. YOU where the one with border demands... saying you NEEDED this and that province.. I actually DIDN"T even take any of those provinces.. and we agreed to peace... nothing more...

so let's take the lands of Caelum.. traitor and liar.. for the glory of us all.. feast on his lands!!!

[BigandScary]

On the Eastern Continent the land hungry Ulmish warlords are trying to push out all honest and hardworking folks of other nations. They have issued unreasonable demands to other nations that have merely staked a claim to unsettled and unclaimed land. If these tyrants are not stopped they will become a threat to all decent peoples in this world.

[Eldanesh]

Hey man we just want to secure our borders, our troops can't even walk the countryside without encountering Pangean brigands. Oh and Ermor, as I said before, I will help you when I have access to your continent, which I do not.

[BigandScary]

Secure what you wish, but do not Try to steal these three provinces that are my people's right.

[WonderLlama]

So Caelum, the angels of air, have been accused of lying. Allow me to tell you our story. And then you can decide who is right. Aezeal, you tell us if you consider any of this a lie.

I met Ermor when their forces reached my border, around turn 4 or 5. I expressed a desire for peace. I said I needed a couple of provinces that were currently neutral, that were closer to me then him, so that we could have a border agreement. He then asked for a couple of provinces that were very near my capital. He was expanding very quickly. At this point in the negotiations, he took the last neutral that gave me access to the north. And I found another nation who's capital blocked off my only other path of expansion.

I told Ermor that I needed to expand a certain direction. I told him I didn't even need to take his new territory, that he could point me to a neutral territory beyond his land, and I would fly there. He refused this as well. I told him exactly how many provinces I had access to if I got every neutral available to me, 14. The average land nation on this map should get 17. He already had that many, and access to many more. He told me we should gang up on the other nation blocking my path. A nation smaller than either of us. I considered this dishonorable, and refused. I took several of the remaining border neutrals. He then sent me a message telling me he was going to take one of the two provinces from my original terms.

At this point, I attacked him. As he said, I attacked him in four places. I didn't send him a message telling him I was going to attack him. But I never accepted his demands for peace, he never accepted most of my demands, he asked me to attack another peaceful nation, and he revoked the only thing we agreed to. So unless you think I should have warned him before I invaded, I can't see how you could say I was in the wrong.

[Aezeal]

I'll clarify why you are a total liar:

1. I didn't conquer either of the provinces you indicated you wanted in our first messages
2. "I had acces to many more.." only if that included invading Pangaea.. which would mean you could take them elsewhere too.. there wheren't more indies in my neighbourhood.
3. I kept talking to you about peace and you accepted and replied to those messages without saying there was no peace.. you even talked about peace yourself
4. And since Marignon is now clearly attacking me to and evading you it's clear this was planned even before you attacked me making you an even bigger liar.

So take lands what you can.. but I'll focus all my army on taking down yours and damn what Marignon gains of it..'I can't figth 2:1 yet but if I go down I'll be damned if I go alone.

Anyone feeling like taking some lands.. feel free to attack Marignon and Caelum.

Marignon's Pretender is up north with a large army there can't be much down south... same for Caelum.. lots of armies up north (no pretender seen as of yet) but must be open for expansion.. if you let these 2 grow without growing yourself and keeping them in check then you are wasting an opportunity. Not only an opportunity to claim lands but also to make an ally http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[BigandScary]

we are all fighting for scraps of land while the true unchecked conqueror is Ulm. Cross the sea and end this menace.

[sum1lost]

Aezeal, are you roleplaying or actually calling someone a liar? Because right now, you are engaging in a personal attack, and in a small community like this, that is a rather drastic thing to do.

[llamabeast]

Guys, the important thing to remember in a situation like this is that the same situation can seem _extraordinarily_ different to the two parties. It might seem completely certain, cast in stone, to both parties that the other is telling untruths, while both think they are honest. You really have to bear this in mind, particularly in a mature community like this where pretty much everyone is honest by inclination.

Now, clearly the nation of Ermor feels that it has been horrifically wronged by Caelum, and therefore it's entirely reasonable that it do its utmost to take them down. And similarly Caelum can fight to the death for its right to expand. So long as you're roleplaying as the nations, you can be as vicious as you want - but no personal attacks on the players please. Also bear in mind that even if the other player has been telling untruths, that's not disallowed so long as they do it in character. Dominions players tend to play a straightforward game but there is no rule against weasel tactics.

To me though, this looks like a case of a very common issue. It goes like this. Player one proposes peace. Player two responds in a friendly way, and discusses other things. He is deliberately not explicitly agreeing to the peace treaty because he doesn't want it, but he is friendly anyway either to divert suspicion or simply because he's not sure he wants war either. But at this stage, because of the lack of an explicit refusal, player 1 believes that peace has been agreed on. Later on, when player 2 attacks, player 1 cries foul. I have seen this happen quite a few times.

So I suspect something along these lines has happened. But even if not - no personal attacks in my games, please. If you want to write propaganda on the boards please do, it's a good tactic - but do it in character (sign off as your nation not your player name).

Enough said - the diplomats of Ermor and Caelum have talked at cross purposes, misunderstandings of occurred and the blood of the peoples of both nations is boiling. Is war inevitable? Who will win? Only time will tell...

[Eldanesh]

Are you gonna narrate this game like a story? 'Cuz that would be epic. Also Pangeans are on my land. Maybe they should get off

[Sensori]

So Eldanesh, you going to reply to my message some day or not? I'd like to know whether I need to keep an army at the border near you or not. ;p

[Aezeal]

Hey I CLEARLY pointed out the lie didn't I so why shouldn't I call him a liar..

It's not good to call someone a liar in a "small community" but it IS OK to do the lying, backstabbing and all sort of general treason?

Sounds a lil awkward to me.. he can play his game the way he wants it.. fair enough there are not actual rules against being the most treacherous player on the map.. I'd even go as far to say that SOMEONE has to be it..
Well he is it.. and since I'm the victem I want everyone to know so noone misses the point and trusts him again this game.. I want you all to know him for the LIAR he is so he'll not gain much by backstabbing me and so I can rest assured I have done everything in my power to strike back at my opponent.. so he will not win this game or even gain anything.

As far as I knew this IS a game thread, Caelum is played by a player so I can tell all I want about that player certainly if it reflects what happened on the map. He lied to me in the game and lied to you all in here so I call him a liar and I will till I'm down in this game (well maybe a few days after that even) or till I have taken him out.
Peace is no option with a traitor so now either of us has to die. The fact that Marignon's Pretender is in my country helping him DOES give him a slight advantage.. and I hope teh fact that HIS PRETENDER IS NOT NEAR HIS CAPITOL OR SOUTHERN PROVINCES will mean marignon looses province there. But I had no peace with Marignon (hell I didn't even know he could attack me before it happened) so no backstabbing there.. nor have I talked to him or seen untrue stuff from him in this forum so I hope him and I can kiss and make up...

For surely Marignon must see that once he and Cealum split up my lands Caelum CAN ONLY attack him so it would be MUCH more profitable to help me get Caelum. HINT HINT

anyway just thought to clarify things.: yes I call thingie playing Caelum a liar because I've seen him lying in here.

[BigandScary]

Eldanesh said:
Also Pangeans are on my land. Maybe they should get off



your land? your land?!!! If you think that my people are going to stick to five provinces in the northern backwater of the western continent while you take up the whole eastrn landmass, you are very sadly mistaken. The ministers of ulm rant about security and natural borders, but they are in for some Leafy Fury if they think that they can run roughshod on the native territory of the Panni council. While every other nation occuppies lands twice the size of that which Pangea holds, the Panni council must fight, tooth and nail, for every inch. If the warmongering Ulmish tyrants wish to move their border one province farther north they will learn the meaning of "Blood and Fire." One step foreward and we will push them five steps back. May the Peace of the Leaf be with you.

And take your next turn when you take the last one, dammit!

[llamabeast]

Aezeal, to be clear - regardless of what happened, it is not acceptable to personally attack any player on any thread for one of my games. I don't care if you've been brutally wronged - I just won't stand for any unpleasantness in my games. 'Nuff said.

In-game though, go ahead and attack him for all you're worth if you want to.

WonderLlama - thanks for holding off on making a rebuttal. This kind of thing is actually pretty rare in dominions games, happily.

[Aezeal]

So ... you make a thread.. he can lie about what I said and did.. and I cannnot defend myself.. yea.. in your dreams... I'll say what I see fit and deem appropriate, your not my mother.. if he uses this forum to say incorrect things I'll correct them here too and sorry to say this to you.. your opinion won't change a thing.

Ermor support Pangeae fully, back to back we will face our opponents and push south

[llamabeast]

Look Aezeal, the reason I can express my opinion strongly is because I can kick you from the game. I would have thought that was obvious.

I don't want to do that however. Let's just leave this issue and move on, okay?

[Aezeal]

yeah I'm gaming ain't I..

[Sensori]

Uh, what he did was a thing in the game. It doesn't make him a worse person in real life, however. You can talk as much crap as you want about his NATION, as long as it's, like, how his treacherous Seraph witches betrayed the fragile trust between your two nations and they need to be removed from the face of this world.

Out of game-wise, if he didn't agree directly to a non-aggression pact (or even alliance) of some sort, him attacking is just a part of the game - no agreement means no obligations, even if you think that you have had relatively nice relations. You can talk about peace all you want with people, but peace'll always be uneasy until there's an actual agreement made.

Never trust a nation you haven't made an agreement with.

[fabio80mi]

The nation of Abysia mourn the passing of our beloved prophet Forcalor

From early reports it seems Forcalar had taken comand of a small detachment to regain the border province of Urd(27) which was taken over by some brigands and bring it back to our glorious empire.

With great horror once getting there discovered that a huge army from Arco was there too ....

Early reports suggests the nation of Arco wasn't aware that Urd was legitimaly under Abysia domain and for some miscomunication the two army engaged in battle and our brave soldiers lost their life against superior forces.

Our response is still undecided , peasants screams for vengeance but our wise pretender god and our early council is examining the matter closely and have yet to decide what action to take.

It would be wise for Arco to take diplomatic action to compensate for the heavy losses we suffered.

Great council of Abysia

[Loren]

At no time did I ever see it under anything but neutral control. There are still a few neutrals about, I was trying to collect what I thought was one.

I have already ordered my troops out of the area and I will have no objection to you reclaiming your land.

I do not see how your general's failure to see that the situation had changed is my fault, however.


(Illwinter, please fix this myopia! Attack orders should not be carried out if the target province changes hands before they can be carried out!)

[Aezeal]

If it all makes a difference then forget my previous messages and let's convert it to this one:

The nation of Ermor declares total war on Cealum:
The direct reason for this is their treacherous invasion of our nations borders. This is even more so because they agreed to peace with us after we MOST generously offered this to them.
I say most generously because every Ermorian citizen knows that all Cealumites sleep with their mothers and their dogs, and for their relatively (for even their pretender god rates as lower than the lowerst ermorian soulless warrior) higher standing citizens this would also include sleeping and performing all sorts of unspeakable deeds with their sisters and their cats and horses which includes but is not limited to penetration of all anatomical (and probably some not very anatomical) orifices.
So it's clear it's TOTALLY our great leaders fault for even trusting these foul and debased creatures.
Ermor has had a longstanding tradition of hate for the winged people (mostly, but not limited to the previously mentions depraved actions) and thus the whole peace idea was a folly.. this we, the Emperor of Ermor admit.
The fact we have recieved some very disturbing pictures of the ruler of Caelum with his wing on places where an ERMOR citizen would surely NOT touch his sister has only made this more clear.

So CITIZENS of ERMOR and the whole world. let us start a crusade/jihad (pick prefered method of extermination) against this foul and debased people.

PS another reason to exterminate these pests is that it's generally known they CANNOT utter a single truthfull word

SO ou great emperor declares

ALL HAIL ERMOR and it's leader the great EMPEROR and follower fo Aezeal our god

posted per request of our host.. totally in character and thus totally "legal"
please forget my insulting post above which apperantly didn;t appear as in character (though they where meant as such) and totally focus on this IN CHARACTER post.. which means this post is totally NOT insulting

thanks for explaining th subtle details to me guys not I know what is insulting and not insulting and I will stick to posts like this http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[fabio80mi]

The nation of Abysia have heard the nation of Arco and believes that the attack was a result of an accident.

We expect your full withdraw from Urd so that we may bring this land back to our domain.


(indeed some kind of 'diplomacy' option would be most welcome.. maybe for dominions 4 ? )

[Aezeal]

I disagree.. this sort of confusion is what makes it fun http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[llamabeast]

Ah well, that's a step forward Aezeal. Obviously I don't think much of your rather childish resort to obscenities, but that's a different issue and one I have no interest in getting involved in.

Enjoy the war guys. I hope it's a dramatic and interesting one.

[llamabeast]

That is very cunning Baalz, can't believe I never thought of it.

[Sensori]

llamabeast said:
That is very cunning Baalz, can't believe I never thought of it.



Uh, wrong thread? ;p

[llamabeast]

Oops, yep, wrong thread.

So, what news from the other nations of the world? I am intrigued to hear what's happening.

[Aezeal]

hmmm and now my potential ally is taking my land too.. hmmm this is distressing..

Anyway let's look again at the word liar

li·ar /ˈlaɪər/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[lahy-er] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun a person who tells lies.

So a person who tells lies is a liar.. not much news to me so... lets look at the next message.



From: BigandScary

I am not intending to invade you or take your lands. The army on your border is made of the maenads that gather around my pans. He was just searching for sites, and they flocked to him. I will do what I can against Caelum.


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Since I have kept my part of the bargain so far I'd appreciate if you would not invade those places we agreed upon to be my property (considering the army located near my border.) Attacking Caelum would be appreciated though.. taking the province with my temple not so much



I hope we can continue or relation with the same intentions it started


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So he is NOT intending to take my province with temple on his border.
How ODD it is that he infact just DID take that province..
So the only conclusion can be that the player bigandscary IS infact a liar.. since his message was not in character I can only assume it was him speaking and not the leader of Pangaea.
It is obvious the map if FULL of liars.. why is the truth so hard to face I wonder.

[BigandScary]

First of all, I never agreed to not take that province and I merely stated my intent to not do so. Also, my consolidation of that area has sealed off the Entire eastern front of Ermorian territory, giving him a chance in hell to win. If I had split my armies in an attempt to do little more than piss off a powerful alliance we would have been up a river without a paddle, but instead I have given us both a chance at survival. At this point it seems that I am the only one who has stuck by Aezeal, throughout his rant against half the world, and I would suggest that he take the opportunity I have offered him and consolidate and hold his core. Or will he continue to call me a liar and expand into all out war against every nation that borders him? I guess we will see...

[Eldanesh]

I agree Azeal, Pangeans ARE jerks! heheh

[fabio80mi]

(sorry for bad english)

First of all i have no interest in the current conflict (i'm too far away to have any role on it) however here is my view.

First of all this is supposed to be a GAME , actually a friendly one.

Friendly doesn't mean that our NATIONS/GODS should be friendly with each other.. it's us players that should make friends meeting new players and so start in the loop of this wonderful game.

Aezeal you really had my simpaty at the beginning for what you claimed was an unprovoked attack.. but now you seem to be whining a little too much.. this game is going badly ok and so ? u'll do better next time. continue pushing it will make it only worst (for next games too!)

Now every players have a different set of personal rule, i'm not at all a blown out rpgers but i try to separate what I as a human being would do and what the naion i'm controlling would do.

For instance in this game i'm with abysia, if i should border pangaea or caelum is DIFFICULT to imagine peace beetween our two people for a complete different believe/enviroment we dwell with,that doesn't mean there should be immediate war but likely there won't be a permanent alliance!

When i do make deal i (as a player) tend to stick with it , i don't like backstabbings and such..especially because this sort of behaviour tend to backfire in successive games.. but that doesn't mean that it can't happen !
U can have maybe friends and have to sacrifice one at one point!


The nation you play with also influence a lot how the other player will treat you.... !

[Aezeal]

I'm just letting the world know who actually does the backstabbing.. the fact that when I use the word liar with good reason gets this place in an uproar just gives me more incentive to point out clear liars cus IMHO if you do something the least you should do is stand up for it instead of saying that I can't say it when it's obviously the truth.

I hardly care for loosing a game.. happens from time to time.. I just think the strange ethics in this forum are ludicrous and so I have my fun with it

[llamabeast]

It's obvious you think the ethics are ludicrous Aezeal.To summarise what they are: Don't be offensive to other players, and keen the conflicts in-character. As fabio8mi says, the idea is for the players to have fun and even make friends, while their nations go to war, possibly including sneaky tactics.

You just don't seem to get the bit about not being offensive. The reason for that policy is that everyone should have a good time. I don't understand why you would want to undermine that.

You are still encouraged to protest and produce all the propaganda you can about in-game things - just do it in character. I know you think I'm mad for saying it makes any difference, but I think it makes a world of difference.

Also, behaving like you have just annoys everyone and greatly decreases the probability of them helping you. It's true, I have had several players make comments to that effect. It's not so much witty political protest as just acting like a git.

[Aezeal]

I think saying someone is a liar when he actually was lying is offensive.. it's the truth and a reaction the deserved.. I think they are whining about getting offended when I'm just saying what happend.

If you lie do not whine about getting called a liar.

Seems easy to me, seems normal to me too. If that is wrong in someones oppinion then those persons are hypocrites I'd say http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[llamabeast]

Well really it's more like the _nations_ were lying...

But anyway, as I've discussed both here and in PMs to you, most situations where it is "obvious" to one person that the other lied, the other person doesn't think they did. Miscommunications are common and the cause of much strife.

I actually apply this to life as a whole. If someone seems to have been bad to me or let me down, I normally assume it was a miscommunication (or, just as often, a cultural/background difference which makes the situation seem almost unbelievably different to them - just consider almost all boyfriend/girlfriend issues!). Almost always it was. Very few people are deliberately unpleasant. It's a good policy, saves a lot of hurt feelings and lost friendships.

However, this is a personal thing and not a way of thinking most people adopt, and anyway, I've gone way, waaay off topic. Sorry about that. Guess I'm proud of my optimistic view of the world. My ex-girlfriend always thought I was talking rubbish when I discussed it, but I decided she was just misunderstanding me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

So, enough of that little issue. What's going on in the world of the Mongoose? I believe Ermor has been crushed and gone AI - where will the conquerors turn next?

[Aezeal]

Well I was about the only one posting RP post in here so...

[llamabeast]

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Fair point.

[WonderLlama]

Now the evil undead Ermorians have been crushed, and the ice angels have returned to their rightful home atop the icy mountains in the northwest. The alliance of good nations can now be at peace.

The creaturs from the forests of Pangea had interfered. Rumours, which travel far on the winds, claim that they had fallen under the dark spell of Ermor, ensorcelling them to his aid. Hopefully that will end with the disappearance of Ermor. We welcome peace, and we even welcome them to keep the forests they had taken from us. For truly that is more their home than ours.

We have discovered the strange tentacled creatures of R'yleh in the seas off our shores. We know nothing about them; the winds do not blow underneath the waves. We don't know whether they are good or evil, desire peace or war. But we are eager to learn.

We have heard little of the eastern continent, just that it is home to mighty tribes of barbarians. Are there any travellers with tales to tell of those mystical lands?

[Sensori]

So the most ancient of the Starspawns were correct in their predictions. R'lyeh now borders each and every living nation on this world.

A dire portent, perhaps.

But it also holds certain... Possibilities.

We do not have great interest in the goings on of the surface-world as long as our shore-lands and our seas are left untouched by the surface-dwellers. As it stands at time, we have no reason, nor specific desire, for war; unless we are forced to enter one by outside forces. We are content in our areas of control. We are content with our research.

Indeed, we shall remain out of wars unless it is deemed absolutely necessary for us to act.

[BigandScary]

BigandScary said:
The Leaders of the Pan Council and their newly awakened leader have been striken by the horror of the last few months. First there were two clashes with our glorious neighbors, Ermor, caused by poor communication on both sides, a mistake that we must not make again. At the same time we were invaded by those supposed "Heroes," as villianous and cruel a group as can be found. Innocent pan levies and priestesses of the Holy Leaves have been slaughtered by these evil creature, along with the innocent bystander that was our hired illusionist. Their deaths will be mourned along with those brave soldiers who died in the "Ermorian Incident."



I think I have been doing RP.

[BigandScary]

The Pan Council is in dire straits. Upon our SouthEastern border the Armies of our nation and that of the vast nation of Ulm are mobilized against each other. As the bulk of our forces are stationed there we were completely unprepared when the leader of our former neighbor and ally, Ermor, stepped down and was replaced by an angry warmonger who has invaded our peaceful heartlands with a powerful force. They will eventually be stopped, but for now they are a huge burden upon the already thin economy of the woodlands. We may only hope and pray that this ends soon.

[Eldanesh]

Or you could give us what is ours, with no blood to be spilled.

[BigandScary]

its not Ulmish, It has always been part of the Panni lands. Why must this we be so hostile about something so trivial. The driads cry for peace, but the Minotaur shout their battle cries. The Panni Council will decide.

[Eldanesh]

Then decide quickly, we grow impatient.

[Sensori]

The Starspawns of R'lyeh grow equally impatient, but of you and your antics, human. Even our patience is finite.

The kingdom of Ulm still seems to have hard time figuring out whether they want peace with the Illithid or if they want to drown in their own blood. A tough choice indeed. Your recruitment of amphibious troops, however, gives us a reason to believe that you intend to wage war against us, perhaps you aim to wage war with the Pangaean wildmen at the same time as you fight us? A curious choice.

Your ultimatum was, and still is, laughable, not to mention insulting towards every Illithid who walks upon this planet. You cannot expect us to give you our provinces for absolutely no compensation, unless, of course, you are quite mad. So... Instead of throwing around these senseless ultimatums of yours. How about trying to give us an offer which is actually an OFFER, instead of a blatant ultimatum with the "offer" of no peace when we, quite logically, decline?

[Eldanesh]

Think what you wish, I cannot see the situation changing. These are uncertain times. We also would wish that we could begin trade and alliances with the true nations of the west, and our people are frustrated by the Ryl'eh Blockade.

[Sensori]

Hmph. Whatever trade you wish to conduct with them is not impeded by our troops. That is yet another absurd claim from you. You are grasping at straws here, and all you want, as it seems to us, is a pointless war for whatever reason.

Yet again, you fail to give us anything more than "WE WANT YOUR LANDS BUT DON'T WANT TO GIVE ANYTHING IN RETURN" as a reason for us to give you anything. And yet again, we say that it is completely unreasonable and borderline mad. We are not telling you to give us more lands simply because it would make defending our seas easier - which it undoubtably would. You aren't offering us any gems, any money, any other provinces for what you demand. A one-sided "offer" is a demand, an ultimatum, a threat. And we do not take threats lightly.

And... You wouldn't gain access to the Western nations through the lands you demand anyway. We managed to take control of the independent province which connected the lands on the Eastern side to the West from that specific location. Thus, your wish for "trade" would be impeded by this, also, if it was impeded by anything in the first place - which it is not.

In fact, it is quite obvious that having the lands Pangaea controls or the lands we have would have the OPPOSITE effect on your defensive capabilities. Now Pangaea's lands are cut off from you by a natural obstacle known as the "mountain range", leaving one province to defend for you and the Pangaeans, whilst our lands are, for all intents and purposes, cut off by a very similar mountainous area.

[Eldanesh]

If the Ryl'eh wish to see a threat in our requests of convenience, then so be it. We maintain our solution.

[BigandScary]

YOU demand that we decide, YOU grow impatient?!! You build up forces upon our border and ask us, not politely may I add, to vacate all land upon the Eastern Continent. I you wish to try another ill-fated invasion be my guest. So far we have noth suffered casualties with no gains whatsoever. If you wish to wage war, make the declaration and may the gods have pity upon your souls. Enter my forest and learn the non-peaceful side of the Leaf.

[Sensori]

"Requests of convenience"? More like "demands of servitude". Yes, of course, the "convenience" of one nation surely trumps everyone else's survival!

Or maybe it does not.

We still cannot see how having provinces which will make your defense (which was your original reasoning for why you wanted ALL the provinces on the northern part of the eastern side of the world - without compensation, we again add) harder as opposed to easier will "convenience" you in the first place. Yes, it might look "neater" in the eyes of some Ulmish king, but that is hardly a reason for leaving such an uncertain situation on forever - unless that is the intention of Ulm.

We still cannot quite understand how you, at first, could see telling others to give you things for no compensation an "offer". This implies to us some kind of trade, that you would be giving us in return for the lost provinces, which was not the case. A request, however... The way we understand them, this was not a request. The fact that you cannot live with us and the Pangaeans NOT giving in to your... "Request"... Means that it's not a request in the first place. It is, as we have said for so long, an ultimatum.

Indeed. You are leaving others under a constant threat of attack for refusing to give in to your crazed demands. And we say again... No compensation, no provinces. As simple as that.

Or would you like us to start demanding various magical items from you, expecting you to make them for no compensation? It would surely convenience us a whole lot!

[BigandScary]

The Ulmish Warlords wish to secure their borders. Does this mean Continental Consolidation. Will the Abysians be exterminated to help in this task or does this idea only apply to the north. Until the leaders of Ulm form a legitamate offer of treaty, the Pan Council considers itself in a state of general hostilities.

[WonderLlama]

My computer died. I was just dusting it, because the fans were getting sqeaky. Now it won't work. I forgot to leave the power cord connected, that's probably what did it.

My old computer is working, and I got Dominions loaded on it. So I'm not in any immediate danger of missing turns.

At the moment, I think it's probably the graphics card that died. I thought I had some old ones lying around, but I can't find them. Which means I'm probably going to have to open up my only working computer for its video card to get this figured out. If I break it, I will become severely depressed. Oh yeah, and have difficulty playing too.

[Eldanesh]

We of Ulm feel considerable friendship with abysia we shall burn the trees of the "sacred forest" ceremonially if it so pleases them.

[Sensori]

As we thought, war was the offer the Ulmish horde had in mind.

Does it surprise us? No.

But it does show that the Ulmish horde does see that their vaunted "convenience" is indeed more important than the survival of others.

[Eldanesh]

We have been at war with pangea since we met them. 8/

-Rejoice! The pangean horde of the passage has been utterly vanquished, in a glorious slaughter where only our hired undead troops were lost.

We of Ulm also wish to know how it goes on the west continent, as we have not been able to reach it as of yet.

[BigandScary]

It is true, the mighty Ulmish people have butchered a massive number of screaming women, Oh, they are a mighty force.

[Eldanesh]

Dem chix was craaazy.

[Sensori]

That was a quick turn! I'm the last one, and I checked the turns like a few hours ago. :O Nerve wrecking waiting for the next turn (although nothing prolly happened, but still). Auuggghh!

[Eldanesh]

Hundreds of pangean "troops" have died in a foolish attempt to reclaim our land. This is indicative that it will not stop, and as such I am forced to vanquish these tree huggers in their entirety.

[BigandScary]

The very term "reclaim" indicates the fact that it has always belonged to the men of Pan, not the men of mud and dirt.

[Eldanesh]

A series of cowardly mind burn attacks has convinced the nation of ulm that ryl'eh intends to destroy us. This will not stand.

[Sensori]

Hmph. Where is your proof that it was us who did these... "mind burn" attacks you speak of? We did no such thing. You have lost your mind. You have threatened us with war ever since we met you, just because we would not yield to your asinine demands - the fact that you are now at war with Pangaea is obvious proof of your malign intent - and now you think you have something to stand on against us because of some "attacks" that may or may not have happened, and if they did, may have been done by anyone!

Yes. We can see you for what you are, Eldanesh, dark pretender of Ulm. Your mind has been consumed by evergrowing bloodlust and incessant hunger for power. You would grasp straws to start wars against your neighbors. It has to end. Cleanse your mind of this insanity and stop walking down this path which will only lead to destruction.

That is the only way to salvation.

[Eldanesh]

I will not risk losing more commanders. We know it was you, only two nations could see that province and only ryl'eh has the skill to do it. You want to kill my leaders and then destroy us, and we will not allow it. It is only a matter of time before other nation's leaders fall prey to the starspawn's witchery.

[Sensori]

You will not risk losing more commanders? Heh. But a war with us would be likely to cause even more deaths on your side, would it not? And we do not deny that we have access to the spells - although it is not mere mind burn you will see us using if you attempt to attack us. We do applaud whichever nation it was who did it because your warmongering has reached new heights (if these attacks took place in the first place), as now you have declared war against US without any actual proof of any wrong doing! Expectable, perhaps, but not the outcome we have been hoping for so long.

As for us being "the only other nation" which can see the position... First, you have not shown any proof that any of these attacks you speak of actually took place. Second, you seem to have never heard of scouts or of the many scrying spells or even items in the world. Third, you have never apparently heard of the possibility that nations may ask other nations to use spells against a third one which is not really related to them in any way, or even close. That, too, actually, is a form of trade, which is a concept which has eluded you since the very first day we laid eyes upon your wretched people and you started laying down your crazed demands which you called "fair". Ultimatums are not fair by default!

As for your claims of our closeness... You seem to have not realized that we are as close to you as we are far. What you see is a limb.

Tread lightly.

[Eldanesh]

I'm sure one of the other major nations in the world proficient in astral magic felt like doing mind burn on every single commander in that province.

[Aezeal]

ow sounds like a tag team on agressive ULM.. hehe teach him not to anger 2 mad hordes of weird creatures http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Wolves of the wood and the Sharks in the sea will eat the men of ULM http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

gogogo

[BigandScary]

Oh, rejoice, rejoice in the glory of Pangea! In the second Battle of Ephesibor the Ulmish host has been routed and it's god general killed. Now the forces of the Panni Council must push on and retake their stolen lands. Glory, glory everlasting!

[Sensori]

Ulm has declared war on R'lyeh by bringing troops inside our borders.

Very well.

You shall be dealt with forthwith.

[fabio80mi]

The nation of Abysia is mostly disturbed by what is happening near our borders beetween two nations we called friends.

Abysia is now considering his options,we tried to avoid this tragic outcome to avoid this war but it seems it's too late now.

The War council has been summoned and the decisions made tonight will likely shape the entire world for generations to come.

Nygon of Abysia

[BigandScary]

dammit, her support troops didn't go

[fabio80mi]

Proclamation to the world.

After the closed session the nation of Abysia has reached a decision how to deal with the current crisis.

All the options were grim but in our view there is no way this war could be avoided any longer

Abysia has , according to his current treaty , chosed to side with the nation of r'yleh . It is our deliberation that this defensive treaty take precedence over the treaty we had with Ulm.

**READ CAREFULLY**
HOWEVER the nation of Abysia doesn't seek the destruction of his long term ulmish friends, we're entering the war only to discourage further assault and to help speed up a truce treaty beetween r'yleh and ulm to stop this madness.

Once the war is over beetween you two Abysia will stop fighting aswell

In addition to that Abysians army will committ only a fraction of his total force in a border war with ULM , unless we're attacked in one of our long province by an army or any offensive spells we do not seek to conquer northern ulmish land, only to create a buffer zone.

[Sensori]

Such a beautiful thing, seeing an Ulmish army destroy itself hitting a target it cannot beat.

And we understand the take of our friends the Abysians. You have had long, friendly relations with them, and you may hold back your attacks if you thus desire. However, considering the long standing hostile position the Ulmish horde has kept against us...

It is hard to see them get off of this path of death.

[Eldanesh]

I'm sorry abysia, but if you have stuff running around my provinces I might as well fight you.

[Sensori]

Hey Llamabeast, I got the message the first time, I didn't need 10 copies of it kthx. ;(

(EDIT: I managed to really typo that one line up. Whoa! Well, I fixed it for the most part!)

[Loren]

My thought was to say that the llamaserver was braying but a bit of googling shows that llamas hum.

Is that where the name came from, when it's doing bad we say it's humming?! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Sensori]

... And I just got another one. I've got 12 of these emails with the same info now. :-p If everyone else's getting it too... Well... Llama's email thingie is really spammin' the interwebs tonight!

Edit: 13. 15. 16. 19. 23. 95. 106. 118 was the last number!

[Hardfeldt]

If I understand this correctly, all people should update, and the server is getting updated right now? I have sent my turn, but the server shows that it still awaits my turn, is this due to the updating?

[BigandScary]

86 emails!

[Sensori]

Hardfeldt, it's "waiting" for your turn because the server is down for the updating. That's what it said in the 48928943 emails we got. ;/

[Loren]

Apparently Gmail has some sort of threading limit--I've got two threads of 61 copies each and one of 2 copies.

The Llamaserver is supposed to cycle every 5 minutes, given the timing between messages I would say it's sending them out every cycle instead of just once. Since the last dupe was 0 minutes ago I would say the problem is still ongoing.

[fabio80mi]

Got like 80 mails myself (gmail) , well i'm out to work , see you in 10 hours or so :-))

[Sensori]

Uhh... Now it says that the turn will be run in October 9th (a year? Yay!), like before instead of having changed it to some sane time in the future. And Hardfeldt's turn didn't go in after all.

What's uup Llama? :/

[llamabeast]

Heh! Well that was because it hadn't updated the web server properly. Now that it's done that, the hosting is in February! I think what happened was that when it discovered the new patch it postponed all hostings by 24 hours (a sensible precaution, to my mind). When it discovered it again 5 minutes later, it did the same again... and so on.

I will fix it in a minute. I will just set every game to host at (now + hosting interval).

Guess I have to write another little script then... man, no work happening for me today!

[Hardfeldt]

Ok, thanks for the help! I'll resend my turn as soon as i come home from work just in case.

[llamabeast]

Cool, thanks, that would be helpful.

The hosting time has been fixed now.

This game has been going really fast, hasn't it? You've been averaging about two turns a day - very impressive!

[fabio80mi]

Thanks llama for your wonderful server and your hosting http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Can't wait to continue this game!

[Hardfeldt]

Yes thanks llama for your hosting, enabling me and everybody else to enjoy great games! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Loren]

Mongoose calling Ulm, Mongoose calling Ulm...

[Sensori]

Looks like Ulm's gonna stale. What's up?

[WonderLlama]

Did Eldanesh stale last turn? It looks like the last time he posted was the 8th. Maybe something came up? Should we pause the game and look for a sub? Seeing how Ulm is involved in so much fighting right now, it would kinda throw the game off if he staled a bunch in a row.

Do we have an admin?

[Sensori]

It's also entirely possible that he "quit" after realizing that he's dead, and thus started staling. Which is the assiest thing you can do to the rest of the folks in the game you're in, but it still happens. Instead of putting yourself AI, or fighting your wars to the bitter end, you just quit. He even started them, he should've had the courtesy to follow them through. Or in the case of "something having come up" putting up a post about it.

But nah, no post and no fighting.

Him staling wouldn't throw the game off a whole lot, though, because he has no army to speak of anymore. There's no point putting another person in that position. He's going to die anyway. He's pretty much in the same situation as Ermor was, and as a result, I'd say him going AI would be a lot more sensible.

No sub (because putting a person in a position like that would be awesomely crappy for that person), AI. If something came up... Well, as I said, he could've said something. He should've said something. He didn't. Thus, the assumption is that he quit.

[fabio80mi]

I believe he had something come up and we should maybe postpone the turn for a while waiting for him at least to post here, i'm not saying wait indefinetly but at least 1-2 day we can and see what happens.

I do not believe this 'staling' is intentional, i doubt anyone in this game is so lame to do that on purpose, at least i hope so http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

PS.
Maybe some problem with the new patch ?

[Sensori]

Well, as I said, he should've said something in the thread if things aren't working for some reason. I'd say we shouldn't postpone anything, just let him stale something like 3 times and turn him AI as seems to be the usual fare when people don't post that they need more time to make their turn. He isn't doing so well that giving his nation to someone else would be justified, and he isn't doing so badly that 3 turns would kill him completely (he's got a lot of land after all) - if he comes back in those 3 days, he'd still be in a shape to do something.

Although, if he has (sudden) connection troubles, that'd be different - then you still have other choices, like net cafes, libraries, friend's places and so forth to send in a post from, but obviously that's far less expected of you, but games still have to go on in your absence, especially if you don't do anything to send in a message telling that it's your internets that's being an ***.

EDIT: And yes, I get a bit cranky when I can't get my Dominions fix. ;p

[llamabeast]

Yeah, he's staled once so far. You can check: www.llaamaserver.net- (http://www.llaamaserver.net-)>Mongoose->Admin options->Show staling data. It's the only admin option that doesn't need a password - maybe a slightly strange place for it.

I will PM him.

[WonderLlama]

The alliance for good has has discovered massive blood hunting centers hidden deep within Abyssia territory. They have been summoning massive arsenals of demons to slaughter the innocent beings of the world. But fear not, although demons are powerful, they are no match for the combined forces of good. The world will be saved.

You can identify these blood hunting centers by looking for a temple with around 4 demonbreds stationed there. Please report all illegal blood hunting activity. Children under 17 should not try fighting demons at home.

[Loren]

I don't know why our war notice didn't get posted before but since it hasn't I'll make the point.

We have decided to remove the evil nation of Abyssia that consorts with demons and is so deranged that they think virgins are for sacrificing instead of bedding.

[Hardfeldt]

As part of the alliance, Marignon has joined the crusade against the sinful Abyssians and their hideous ways of sacrifices and demon dealings. Let our flames cleanse away all heresy and decay.

[fabio80mi]

The nation of Abysia will make the so called 'alliance' pay dearly for this impudence.

Reports indicated that Mourn Son of the Sun , false god of Marignon has been killed by one of our heroes.

Similar fate happened to Slither , false god of Arco who also was killed by our superior forces.

Let all the world know that Abysia shall from now on be called god-slayer

[Loren]

fabio80mi said:
The nation of Abysia will make the so called 'alliance' pay dearly for this impudence.

Reports indicated that Mourn Son of the Sun , false god of Marignon has been killed by one of our heroes.

Similar fate happened to Slither , false god of Arco who also was killed by our superior forces.

Let all the world know that Abysia shall from now on be called god-slayer



Abyssia has no heroes. You have demons!

Unfortunately, this land has probably fallen to your infernal forces.

[Loren]

R'yleh--you have made a big mistake siding with Abyssia. Pretty soon your daughters are going to be being sacrificed to infernal powers.

And don't think of playing the innocent--we all know where the mind hunts are coming from.

[Sensori]

Hee hee hee. You have some comic talent, human. Three nations attacking one without saying a word is hardly fair, and you still failed to conquer their lands. How is your "alliance of good" any better than the infernal forces which the Abysians control, when you would invade their lands in such a manner? We thought cowardice was an "evil" trait. Indeed, we had no idea that someone rewrote the human dictionary and made cowardice a part of being "good"!

So far, all we have done is aid them in defense against your "forces of good" on their lands. We have not trespassed on yours. If you choose to invade our lands, surely you must realize that this will change most radically.

As for your wonderment about our "siding" with the Abysians. None in your "alliance of good" attempted to get us join it in the first place. They came in our aid against the Ulmish horde, and they have been a good friend of the Illithid race for quite some time. If you thought we would simply stand by and do absolutely nothing while the world is being changed by a group of nations bent on the destruction of one of our closest neighbors... You were sorely mistaken.

[Loren]

Sensori said:
Hee hee hee. You have some comic talent, human. Three nations attacking one without saying a word is hardly fair, and you still failed to conquer their lands. How is your "alliance of good" any better than the infernal forces which the Abysians control, when you would invade their lands in such a manner? We thought cowardice was an "evil" trait. Indeed, we had no idea that someone rewrote the human dictionary and made cowardice a part of being "good"!



I do admit we goofed up on the declaration of war--apparently we were all expecting someone else to post it.


So far, all we have done is aid them in defense against your "forces of good" on their lands. We have not trespassed on yours. If you choose to invade our lands, surely you must realize that this will change most radically.



Violating multiple NAP's to do so.


As for your wonderment about our "siding" with the Abysians. None in your "alliance of good" attempted to get us join it in the first place.



You were obviously in their camp already.


They came in our aid against the Ulmish horde, and they have been a good friend of the Illithid race for quite some time. If you thought we would simply stand by and do absolutely nothing while the world is being changed by a group of nations bent on the destruction of one of our closest neighbors... You were sorely mistaken.



You should have rejoiced. You realize they are a blood nation with good scales? While I don't know your scales I do know you went with an awake Wrym--your scales aren't going to match theirs. You're not going to stand a chance when they come for you.

[Sensori]

Loren said:

I do admit we goofed up on the declaration of war--apparently we were all expecting someone else to post it.



Just like your little alliance "goofed up" the declaration of war against Ermor, huh. Interesting, isn't it? Attack first, declare war after you have fought for several months, then say it was a mistake. Ingenius.

Even if it was a real mistake (I can believe you made a honest mistake, but the others? No), it doesn't explain the same people doing the same mistake TWICE.


Violating multiple NAP's to do so.



Those Mind Hunts are there to aid an ally on their territory. I never agreed to have the non-aggression pacts cover the armies you might have on the lands of my allies as well unannounced. Nor have I directly attacked anyone on purpose. I have used remote attacks, and only on Abysia's territory. Of course, excluding Ulm who was asking for a Mind Hunt fest on his lands after he attacked fully aware that I would let loose the dogs of... Mind Hunt on him.

And considering the cowardly nature of three nations attacking one, especially without any declaration of war, it is obvious that there are certain mitigating factors in the issue of me throwing Mind Hunts on your armies.


You were obviously in their camp already.



... Right. R'lyeh obviously was in Abysia's camp over twenty turns ago? Obviously obvious!

The obvious thing was that you didn't even like me having 10 troops in a damn fortress close to you. You never asked if I'd join, but you did tell me to go away with my massively huge 10 Ichtyid army, calling it a gigantic build up.


You should have rejoiced. You realize they are a blood nation with good scales?



Yes, I do realize that Abysia is a blood nation with relatively good scales. And this should be an issue for me, because...?


While I don't know your scales I do know you went with an awake Wrym--your scales aren't going to match theirs.



Yes. Because an awake Wyrm is a good choice if you happen to be underwater since it works both in the sea and on the land. But scales have a big effect on the world around us, because...?


You're not going to stand a chance when they come for you.



Because...? You obviously have some information I don't, because I kind of think that I would have a chance if he came for me.

[WonderLlama]

Wait, who made that rule about declarations of war? When I attacked Ermor, there was no mistake about it. Is there a Dominions-wide rule that you have to tell somebody before you attack them? I absolutely tell somebody if I have any kind of agreement with them. If I agree to peace, I will tell you ahead of time, before I break it. That is if I break it, which to date I have never done. I never agreed to anything with Ermor, nor with Abyssia.

I'm serious, this is my first game. Is it agreed univerally withing the dominions community that you must declare war a turn before invading?

Now you on the other hand, broke your 4-turn NAP. When I make an NAP, I make sure my allies agree to the NAP as well. I had no idea that you were allied with Abyssia, and it was your responsibility to tell me what I could or could not do regarding Abyssia as part of the NAP.

As for the deciding who would win, Abyssia vs. R'yleh if you take everyone else out, that's not really my business. But if I were betting, you'd better believe I'd take Abyssia.

[Sensori]

No, there's not an agreement on anything. I'm just playing my nation in a roleplay sense (devious Illithid and all that) and such and such. If you want explanations, Abysia also broke against a non-aggression pact when he went for Ulm when Ulm attacked me, which made it easier for me to go against NAPs when he came under attack. And I was seriously afraid that you guys would actually destroy Abysia in a quick, swift stroke, just like you did with Ermor. I was taken by total surprise when the armies started falling like flies.

Turned out I had completely overestimated your combined armies.

As for the NAPs, I made sure that I didn't invade your lands, kill your men and children and rape your women, because they were in effect. I have only helped Abysia to repel you from his lands so far. This, as far as I know, is fairly common in Dominions games - helping allies (and others in dire need of help) indirectly when they are at war and you are not. Some prefer a more direct approach, attacking people left and right, some like to attack from the shadows and use attacks that may or may not bite you in the *** if you over do it. Some even let others pay them to use remote attacks against another nation.

And I'm ready to come up and say that I overdid it, but hey, it did the job it was supposed to do.

Abysia was OK with the NAP. He however wasn't OK with the fact that you attacked him unannounced (a fairly common thing that happens in Dominions games when no deals are up. Never liked it however). I was under the impression that he had NAPs with you all (except Caelum). When I started wondering about the Marignonian and Arcoscephalean armies on mine and his borders, it turned out his NAPs had expired. He of course expected me to help him right then and there, and having learned from the experience with Ermor ("he might not be around in four to five turns"), that's what I opted to do.

And don't take things said too seriously - you're playing just fine. And I don't think this war is anywhere near its end. There are no "universally agreed" things in the Dominions community that I have heard of. Breaking NAPs is a bad thing, however. Seriously enough about this particular situation, it had all the signs of a quick gang up (*three* nations attacking one at once?) that I had no idea what else I should do, especially with my predisposition to hate unannounced attacks - it seemed like a do or die situation.

Which it wasn't. I overestimate and worry about things too much for my own good. And now I keep explaining and explaining, which is another less than admirable trait I happen to have. ;p

--

EDIT talk: I started thinking. There's more that needs to be said.

In case someone is wondering, the post I made to Loren was in character. That means basically that, when I called people cowardly, out in the open, for something people do often enough (no matter how much I don't like it), it's actually an attempt to make the fact that hell, I just got caught breaking against the spirit of NAP all over the place, look a bit better. It's just In Character talk, nothing more, nothing less. If my BS offends someone, I'm sorry. And I'm sorry for confusing folks with that randomness and throwing around insults which may have been taken personally when none such was meant.

Of course R'lyeh (and its leaders) will think that they will win. To be frank, I have no idea who will win. I personally have no desire to win. For various reasons. But by helping Abysia and making the game possibly more fun for its player, as I realized, I made the game less fun for three other people by using mind hunt... That isn't such a good method of learning now is it. I'm sorry for doing it, but I've managed to drive myself into a damn corner now.

But Caelum has to have some tricks up his sleeve, right? Right? Those Caelian Seraphs weren't it, were they?

And Eldanesh. Whatever I say in our "heated" exchange about peace/no peace, it has always been in character BS. Sure, I may find the stuff you're doing stupid, but seriously... It's not that bad when you consider the situation (I was about as large as you for starters, and then I had five land provinces right next to you). Please keep that in mind when you read them - I'm talking there as the leadership of R'lyeh to the leadership of Ulm, not as me to you. And if I've managed to offend you, I'm really sorry.

I'll never understand why you demanded me to give you the provinces for nothing, though. Was it a miscommunication or what?

Maybe I should give up R'lyeh to someone else, I'm starting to feel I'm doing more damage to the game than good. :|

[WonderLlama]

Don't worry about offending me. You certainly didn't say anything near as bad as Ermor did. I thought you were saying that what I did was legitimately not ok. Role playing makes learning the game and learning the rules of diplomacy a lot more confusing.

Mind hunt I understand and am ok with. I understand the theory of how to counter it. I just wasn't expecting to have to deal with it at the moment. And I sort of thought the newbie game rules meant treaties were more likely to be followed. But I understand what to expect from it, so I'm not panicking over it.

Blood magic is a different story; I have no idea what to expect from it. All I know is that people say it gets crazy powerful late game, and you have to deal with it early. And that it just dealt with two allies with ease.

Now back in the game, I am of course upset about the NAP. I'm also interested that my allies had an NAP that I didn't know about. I definitely still have tricks up my sleeves. Those seraphs were just a very expensive experiment. The trouble is, I've just seen two allies wounded extremely badly, and I haven't even seen the force that did it yet. If I can't even protect my allies, then what good am I? I am having an existential crisis.

[fabio80mi]

Greetings!
This is the player behind abysia speaking so no roleplaying involved.

What you did can be called cowardice especially if coming from the self-declared 'forces of good' but it was COMPLETELY a legit tactic both as a roleplay thing (abysia is, in fact , an evil nation:P) and as a diplomatic thing (you formed an alliance and attacked a nation your percieved as a threat).
So absolutely no whinings or ill-feeling on my part it's just the way the game plays :-)

However you couldn't expect me to go down without a fight and making you pay DEARLY for your invasion right??

Snd so now you have a fight! You may very well likely win (even with r'ylen defensive support) but who knows at least we'll have some fun :-)

As to explain r'yleh help well i actually expected it because of a precedent.
I was in very very good term with Ulm and r'yleh and tried hard for many turns to make them like each other and bring them together in a war front.
In the end, for a mistake i think, ulm invaded r'yleh so i could standby and do nothing (possibly losing 2 friends and being completely surrended by a very large and powerful nation) or pick one... i picked the one in my view was the invaded one and stook with him in the war.

Unfortunatly your 'alliance' had good intelligence and decided to attack me when most of my forces were away so now i can't committ with Ulm! i also tried to convince Ulm (and r'yleh both) to make peace well it didn't work :-)

Now i'm in a very interesting fight with 2 land nation attacking me in the west, your seraph in my backyard and ulm on the north.. interesting isn't it? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

P.S.
Edit for blood magic-> it is of course a very good school of magic BUT though being powerful (ask marignon and arco:P) it's not invincible.
This is my first game playing medium abysia (even on sp..) and first mp game so i'm a very far away to master it.. guess i'll learn along the way as we are all doing !

[Sensori]

For what it's worth, the Starspawn of R'lyeh now notify the three allied Western nations (Arcoscephale, Caelum, Marignon) of the beginning of the formal cancellation of the various non-aggression pacts.

While it may be a pointless gesture, consider us at total war in four months (five as the case may be with one).

[Eldanesh]

I'm aware these things were out of character. Considering I'm playing Ulm with 3 drain U'd think I'd be trying to be dense and honest.

[Sensori]

You mean the things were "in character", on both sides, right? Out of character means that we would've been going on at each other on a personal level rather than as leaders of nashuns that are at odds. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif And you DO have an excellent point there! I never thought of it that way (the drain and denseness thing). It's kinda funny how I *constantly* use IC (short for in character lawl) rhetoric and then fail to realize when others do the same sometimes. Pretty fun way to play 'em, I must say. Well, not so fun for ME when the things started happening, because it lead to a heap of trouble and some frustration, but in retrospect, it's been a fun lil "debate". http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Loren]

Sensori said:
No, there's not an agreement on anything. I'm just playing my nation in a roleplay sense (devious Illithid and all that) and such and such. If you want explanations, Abysia also broke against a non-aggression pact when he went for Ulm when Ulm attacked me, which made it easier for me to go against NAPs when he came under attack. And I was seriously afraid that you guys would actually destroy Abysia in a quick, swift stroke, just like you did with Ermor. I was taken by total surprise when the armies started falling like flies.



The reason our armies fell like flies is the same reason you'll die to him also--summoned devils.

Remember that he's sitting there blood hunting and forging soul contracts. Each soul contract yields 1 devil/turn until the mage dies. Remember, also, that since they are not recruitable they have no price--and thus no upkeep. We knew the danger, we just didn't realize it was already too late.

[Sensori]

Hey Llamabeast, what's up with the game status page?

Invalid nation name! Waiting for 2h file
Invalid nation name! Waiting for 2h file
Invalid nation name! Waiting for 2h file
Invalid nation name! Waiting for 2h file
Invalid nation name! Waiting for 2h file


wat

[llamabeast]

Er, good question. Will investigate...

[Sensori]

Edited for the fact that now it's showing everything just right. ;p No turn received, though.

Thanksjoo, Llama!

[llamabeast]

Hopefully you should have a turn now. I got it to resend them all.

I added a fix to the code to cope with the new unusually-named files that LA Pythium produces. Turns it was not so much a fix as a bungle though. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Hopefully sorted now.

[fabio80mi]

Thanks llamabeast! received the fixed turn and seems ok!

[BigandScary]

I am traveling from today until saturday. I think that I will have internet access, but it is chancy.

[llamabeast]

Erm, do you want me to postpone hosting?

[Sensori]

Well, considering his turn for today is already in, so it couldn't be affected by him being away... Postpone the next turn, just in case?

This game has been moving with such insane speed anyway that it wouldn't hurt to have a lil bit of a slowdown for a couple of days. ;p

[WonderLlama]

I agree. I'm not quite to the point where I can't get my turns in on time, but I probably will be soon. There is a lot more to think about every turn than there was 6 turns ago. I'm thinking in another 6 turns, I might ask that we switch to 48 hour hosting.

I wonder if I'm going to feel impatient when I play my next game if it goes at normal speed.

[llamabeast]

If you think it's a good idea to postpone the turn tomorrow, or increase the hosting time, would someone give me a prod in the form of a PM? I find it hard to store these things in my head with so many games going on.

[BigandScary]

I don't need the hosting postponed, I just wanted to warn you that I might stale the turn, depending on if there is wireless access there. If you want to postpone turn, do so, but I am hoping that it won't be an issue.

[fabio80mi]

I am fine with postponing next turn if needed, however i'd like to stay on the 24h host time for the time being if possible!

[BigandScary]

guys, don't worry about postponing, I'm not going on the trip anymore, something came up.

[WonderLlama]

I got turn 49 in. But I am going to be away from the internet Friday night and all Saturday. If turn 50 is available early tomorrow, I may be able to play it. But I'm going to need extra time on either turn 50 or turn 51. Llama-the-first, would you mind extending the deadline tomorrow, once it is determined which turn we are on? Everyone else, is this ok with you?

[BigandScary]

no problem

[llamabeast]

Umm - can someone send me a PM tomorrow to remind me to postpone the hosting for WonderLlama?

[llamabeast]

Okay, postponed by 24 hours, thanks for reminders.

[WonderLlama]

Thank you all for waiting. I am back and my turn is in. I don't anticipate needing extra time any time soon.

[fabio80mi]

No problem man :-)

Btw you really crushed me last turn , didn't expect you to bring all your splitted forces in that province at once http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Sensori]

This is weeeeird. I sent my turn in like an hour ago and the damn thing stopped refreshing! Arrrg, this frustrates meh.

Oh crap, and Llamabeast went for a week of no internet, too... If I stale because of this... I'm going to be very, very pissed off.

[Loren]

Sensori said:
This is weeeeird. I sent my turn in like an hour ago and the damn thing stopped refreshing! Arrrg, this frustrates meh.

Oh crap, and Llamabeast went for a week of no internet, too... If I stale because of this... I'm going to be very, very pissed off.



Since the engine isn't updating the screen it's probably also not going to process a turn.

[Sensori]

Well, it's not SAYING that there's anything wrong so the engine might THINK that everything's A-OK... While it stales people left and right.

Although it can be thinkin' the exact opposite, too, but I'm not too big on optimism on computer-related issues.

[Sensori]

Well, apparently it hasn't run yet... I really hope it doesn't start suddenly refreshing on its own either unless it picks up on my turn... Or I'll go mmmmmaaad.

[Loren]

Sensori said:
Well, it's not SAYING that there's anything wrong so the engine might THINK that everything's A-OK... While it stales people left and right.

Although it can be thinkin' the exact opposite, too, but I'm not too big on optimism on computer-related issues.



If that happened he would restore the game(s) to where they should be.

[Sensori]

Yeah, that's what they told me in some other game's thread, so all's peachy. I'm still a bit twitchy, though. ;p

And while I might not say it a whole lot, I do appreciate Llama's server and whatnot. It's just one of those Finnish traits I've picked up due to being one - never say anything when things work like a charm, only say something when they don't!

[WonderLlama]

fabio80mi said:
No problem man :-)

Btw you really crushed me last turn , didn't expect you to bring all your splitted forces in that province at once http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif


I wasn't expecting you to send such a big army either. You did manage to kill one of my air queens, so it wasn't all bad news for you.

I've got to say, battles between actual comparable forces are a lot more tense and fun than fighting the AI.

[Sensori]

OK, this is weird. The LlamaServer addy says we're at turn 52, but the FIRST turn it sent says turn 53 ingame.

And I told the thing to send me the turn again... And it says it's Turn 53 (to which everyone staled) ingame again. And now it still accepted my turn 52 .2h.

What the... O_O Spooooooooky.

EDIT: Which turn did you guys send in? 53 or 52?

[BigandScary]

I got two 52s.

[Loren]

BigandScary said:
I got two 52s.



Same here.

[WonderLlama]

I also got two. But the server is accepting turns based off the earlier, non-stale turn. So I suggest everyone use that one.

[fabio80mi]

Indeed, btw we're waiting Ulm here who has got... 1 province left?

[BigandScary]

which is about to fall

[Sensori]

Isn't this lovely. Another day of waiting until Llama fixes our timer. :/ Llama forgot to add 24 hours into our timer more and it says the next turn will happen on 23rd of October the next time it happens to be 17:14 and a Tuesday.

Either that, or Eldanesh sends his turn in (sorta unlikely). http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[WonderLlama]

I could have sworn 10 minutes ago the game page correctly said the deadline was today. About 20 minutes ago. Now it says the 23rd, as you say. Did you see it that way too, Sensori, or did I just not see the date before?

[Sensori]

Today is 23rd, man.

This is what it should've said:

Next turn due: 17:14 GMT on Wednesday October 24th

Which it says now! It's right this time! Yaay, Llama fixed our stuffs! Just one more day to wait for the turn to run, then, unless Eldanesh shows up and does his turn. ;p

EDIT: THe thing was that it's 23rd today, and the timer had passed the time the turn was due - thus making it look like we were gonna hafta wait for 23rd of October to be Tuesday some year in the future unless Ulm sent his turn. Llamabeast sent me a response saying that it was just not showing right while the time had been, in actuality, changed to Wednesday.

[WonderLlama]

Er, ok I was making no sense when I wrote that. It was 1:20 my time, 17:20 server time that it said the turn was due 17:14 Tuesday October 23rd. And it stayed that way for a while, and I was wondering why the turn was taking so long to process. And then it changed to say the due 17:14 on Wednesday October 24th.

So that's not right, is it? I mean, we've already waited 24 hours. We didn't switch to 48 hour hosting, did we? There's nothing about it in the admin log.

[WonderLlama]

Oh, ok, you edited your post. Did Llamabeast mean to give us an extra 24 hours when he reset the timer? Or did he just think that's when it was supposed to be?

[Sensori]

Yeah, he did mean to give us an extra 24 hours, I fink it says so in his email.

Let's see... Yeah, here it is!


I've stuck an extra 24 hours on all the timers anyway just in case.



So, it's 24 hours more of not having to worry about turns unless Ulm shows up. ;p

[WonderLlama]

Got it.

[fabio80mi]

From the mail i received i think he just added an extra 24 hours anticipating possible problems with the double turn.
However we all figured it out and sent our turns in... like 12 hours :-P

All except Eldanesh who has gone silent since a little while, let's hope he comes back soon to do his turn

[WonderLlama]

Well, that's pretty much it. I think the forces of good are defeated.

A small force of elite Caelum mages and an Air Queen confronted one of Abyssia's large devil armies. They were set up to destroy it with several battlefield enchantments.

Two of those enchantments were Storm Warriors and Wrathful Skies. I thought Storm Warriors gave lightning immunity. I was wrong. The turn after the enchantments went up, Wrathful skies destroyed the High Seraph holding the storm staff, which was holding the devils at bay. And then the mages were all killed.

That's pretty much all I had. Don't get me wrong - I'm going to try to come up with some way to defend my lands. But I've just lost my only good combat summon, combat artifacts, plus I alchemised most of my gems to attempt that attack. I've got nothing left.

[Sensori]

Why did you throw Sea of Ice, anyway? Didn't you realize that, as MA R'lyeh, I was pondering casting it myself. But then you threw it for me, and I'm very much happy. ;p

But... You could've technically just given me all the gems, because that's how much it's gonna help you.

[WonderLlama]

No one in our alliance has anything set up to attack the sea. So at least for the moment, your troops coming out of the sea seemed like a bigger threat than we could bring to bear on your water provinces. Particularly, it looked like we could handle your land forces, even with that tartarian. If we could beat Abyssia and push you back to the sea, we would have won. Without sea of ice, we couldn't focus our forces on Abyssia. Turns out, our forces couldn't handle Abyssia with or without your interference.

By the way, after the game, I'd really like to know what you put together to make a tartarian summonner. Pretty sure it's not your pretender. Did you use lich+staff+skullface+2 mult-booster rings?

[fabio80mi]

[player to player]

That turn went really well in my favor i must admin, 3 large battle and 3 crushing victory, however everything is still on the balance wonderllama! just 2 turns ago you completely crushed one of my army ... now i crushed yours ! everything can still happen :-)
Being my first multiplayer game i'm really awed as to how more challenging and fun this game is with other real players, i would have NEVER expected some of the tactics you forces of good deployed and i bet me and r'yleh surprised you on more than one occasion already !
Keep up this game as it is!

[WonderLlama]

Oh, I'm not quitting. Don't worry about that. And I've enjoyed this game tremendously, and think I will still enjoy it.

I'm just saying that was the tipping point. Unless something very unexpected happens, that turn decided the game. (Well, other than the fight between the three of you once we're out, which will be very interesting as well.) I did crush one of your armies 2 turns ago. However, you had at least 3 larger armies that I know of, whereas you just crushed the entirity of my meaningful forces.

[BigandScary]

Is ulm still on the list on the servor so that he can read the message about his defeat?

[Sensori]

Yeah... That's the way Dominions works. Even though he's lost, he's still going to drag us all on for another day since it's likely he's gonna stale, so no rush with the turns there.