Worthy Heroes 1.8

[quantum_mechani]

Since Turin does not anticipate coming back to dominions any time soon, he has given me permission to maintain and update the worthy heroes mod. The 1.8 version:

*Improves the new 3.10 heroes
*Adds several new heroes
*Replaces several of the less fleshed out worthy heroes (i.e., Elder Basalt King replaced with Coral King)
*Tweaks some heroes
*Updated readme
*BlackheroView updated all the way to 3.10/heroes 1.8

Thanks to Sombre for providing the graphics for some of the new heroes.

[Xietor]

Awesome QM. Just in time for my Epic Heroes II game.

[ryo_akashi]

Cool! I was just looking at this mod yesterday. Some feedback ...

-- Name: Immortal - Ho Hsien Ku
Currently, she has heal 50. Maybe increase it to heal 100, to differentiate her from the MA TC healers?

-- Hashi Saburo, Red devil
There is a bug for this unit. He currently has



#makemonster 1245 2

Should be

#makemonster2 1245

[Xietor]

can anyone post a link to this mod that does not use rar format?

[llamabeast]

Here's a zipped version of Worthy Heroes 1.8.

[Xietor]

You are the best llamabeast!

[Meglobob]

Thanks for this QM! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Humakty]

The horn blower heroe of Marverni is available as a pretender for all nations of all ages.
It is a bit strange.
Many greetings for the update.

[quantum_mechani]

ryo_akashi said:
Cool! I was just looking at this mod yesterday. Some feedback ...

-- Name: Immortal - Ho Hsien Ku
Currently, she has heal 50. Maybe increase it to heal 100, to differentiate her from the MA TC healers?

-- Hashi Saburo, Red devil
There is a bug for this unit. He currently has



#makemonster 1245 2

Should be

#makemonster2 1245

Thanks for the feedback, it would be nice for the immortal healer to be bit more effective compared to recruitables. With the #makemonster command though, I believe that is how it is supposed to look.

I am aware of the unfortunate issue with hornblower, so I've commented him out of the code until I can hopefully find a way around the problem.

[Sombre]

I'm not at my home computer now, so I can't look at the modding manual, but #makemonster2 1245 is how I'd do it.

[quantum_mechani]

Hmm, damn dyslexia, I was reading it backwards even after it got pointed out. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Yeah, that needs to get fixed.

[shard]

Is the Coral King W3N2 an atlantis multihero? I would actually consider getting luck to pick him up; so far all i've got are escaped slave princes, which frankly i'm not sure what to do with, atlantis doesnt really lack for non-stealth thugs (which also have leadership).

I notice hes in the blackhero viewer, but not in the readme. Atlantis really needs some way of accessing nature without going N1 on the pretender and summoning naiads with all the kelp forests scattered about in the sea. Another suggestion; with all the priests the nation has (MA anyway) it wouldn't be out of the way to add healing would it?

PS - Yes I am biased :p

[quantum_mechani]

The Coral King is an EA Atlantis hero, and he should be in the readme.

[LDiCesare]

I can't find anything in the Readme for Tir na n'Og or for Eriu.
It's a bit strange, since Tir na n'Og's Long Handed is about the best hero I ever saw. He's still in the .dm, but I can't find Eriu's Scathach. She's listed as a hero of Fomoria in the readme, though. I don't know if either nation has more heroes (Eriu seems to, but I don't know about Tir nan'Og)?

[quantum_mechani]

Just an oversight I think, the .dm file and readme are a bit of an organizational mess. I'll rearrange/update those next version.

[Twan]

Creating a pretender for Arcocephale ME with worthy heroes enabled I get a maverni hero as possible choice ("Champion of the Horn", unit 2850).

[vfb]

quantum_mechani said:
I am aware of the unfortunate issue with hornblower, so I've commented him out of the code until I can hopefully find a way around the problem.



On my system, I see that the "Champion of the Horn" has been commented out in heroes1_8.dm like this:

---#newmonster 2850

etc.

But it appears to ignore the leading "-" characters, and unless I delete the entire block, in SP I end up fighting against AIs worshipping the guy.

[Twan]

Yes it's stange the champion is commented out but still exists. It's probably the power of the faith.

[Sombre]

Commenting something out with ---- does nothing, it's just a note used by modders. You have to remove the # to get the game to ignore it. So

----newmonster 2850

or just

newmonster 2850

would get rid of it. But the easiest way is just add #restrictedgod 79 to that hero. He's still in the game then but won't turn up as a pretender.

[Burnsaber]

I've recently had some extra free time on my hands and made some hero graphs to be possibly used in WH 1.9 . I've had troubles contacting Quantum about these graphics (he's understandably a busy man, with CB and all), so I've decided to post them here in order to get some comments. See, I'm going for military service in 3 weeks and I'd like fix any graphical glitches I might not have noticed before it's too late.

http://xs222.xs.to/xs222/07500/Heroes.gif
You can see them "in-game" in following picks;
http://xs.to/xs.php?f=Oceaniaheroes.png&h=xs122&d=07493
http://xs.to/xs.php?f=Heroes.png&h=xs321&d=07485

The heroes are numbered for your convinience. These buggers are supposed to go the nations with most need for heroes. 1-3 are for Monkey nations (Lanka and Bandar Log of all ages). 4 and 9 for Helheim. 5 for LA Jotunheim (but he can probably be moved around). 7 and 8 for both ages of Oceania.

Most of these don't really have much backround or descriptions to speak of. If any of you feel like suggesting and or writing something, go ahead. Here are my thoughts on backrounds so far;

1: He's a big ape. He smashes face obviously, but for whom? Most likely a Lanka hero. Needs backround.

2: Since Bandar Log is a caste system, he can't really have "earned" the right to use a sword or armor. Perhaps he's rogue? Some smart markata that decided that he has had enough of the belittling of his people? He might a mercenary that has returned to serve the Bandar Log. I was thinking that his "gimmick" could be high defense and three arms (since he can use his tail as a hand). Perhaps a assasin, that would give his high def a real purpose.

3. I was thinking that he might be like "the white minotaur", but for monkey nations. Sometimes a Bandar with white fur is born and they are believed to be Rishi's (or Yogis) who have been rewarded with a strong body and spirit through reincarnation. Since Kailaisa, Bandar Log and Patala each have semi-usable sacreds, but weak priests, I think that Holy 3 hero could be really useful to have around without being overpowering. He could also spread dominion.

4. The Hanged King. I've made a bit of a backround for him. See this picture (stats are mere suggestion for QM) http://xs.to/xs.php?f=Hanged.png&h=xs321&d=07476

5. He has a backround and stats. Comments on graphic are welcome.

6. The graphic is half-finished. I'm not sure that its concept will hold as a hero. He's a huge holy stone tablet, into which the new laws of the Lawgiver are etched (possibly possesed by a spirit like Monolith, Oracle.. etc). Comments?

7. This one has a concept, but no actual written description. He is "Lord of Pearls" or "Pearlsmith" the guy who forges all that pearl gear.

8. Thanks to Sombre for the idea concerning this one. He is Amber Clan arch druid of the kelp forests of Oceania.

9. Not much thought behind this one. It's a kickass Valkyrie with a lighting spear. Needs a backstory.

10. I'm a bit unsure of this, hence it has no attack sprite yet. Supposed to be a Triton Prince hero with a black Capricorn (like Hildegard of Ulm) with Pearl Armor and Trident.

Disclaimer: All of the above are mere suggestions. QM has the final word on this.

I'll post the list of nations who have a "lack" of heroes (defined <3 heroes) even with WH 1.8 . "My" heroes are not included in these.

The Nations with only one hero: Helheim (not multihero!), Patala, EA/MA Oceania

Nations with two heroes: MA Mictlan, MA Shinyama EA Caelum, Kailaisa, Bandar Log, LA Agartha, EA/LA Atlantis, EA R'lyeh, LA Pythium

[Tyrian]

For the hanged king (IV), I think a little more powerfull magic path (or priest). Some mobile heroes are more powerfull. I think equally he must have access to head and misceallenous slot because he cant't really use down part(under the neck) of his body.

Background for the black ape(I): he can be an ex-slave from a blood nation. They use him as a gladiator for game, corrupted him with blood magic to made him in berserker state. He escaped and return to Lanka, with the idea to revenge. In this case he can be a berserker, with some skills (1 or 2) in blood magic. The corruption make him very more stronger and resilient than a normal ape (more strength, PV and maybe protection/regeneration?) with poisonned claw?

[DigitalSin]

When I saw the graphics for number 5, my initial thought was that they looked like they could be the hero for EA Ulm, something along the lines of children brought to the wheel of Pain just like the Steel Warriors but who escaped and grew up wild, and have returned as berserk legends, or something. They all look great though!

[Burnsaber]

Okay, today I decided to amuse myself by making some stats and descriptions for the hero pics I've made. I'm no expert at balance and thematical correctness, so these are 100% under the whims of the all mighty Quantum, the one who has the final word.

The grammar on these is unchecked. Expect to see some typoes.


http://xs122.xs.to/xs122/07516/Wanderer.JPG
- Hero for EA Atlantis. The claw is a copystats issue for darkvision, but that won't be a issue in 3.12. Hurrah!

http://xs122.xs.to/xs122/07516/ThawedOne.JPG
- Hero for LA Atlantis.

http://xs122.xs.to/xs122/07516/DaughteroftheStorms.JPG
- Hero for EA Helheim and perhaps MA VAnheim (don't they have Valkyries too?). I'm going to give the sprite a helmet on a later date (copystatting a Strom warrior gave her a helmet I can't get rid of, so he can't go around bareheaded). The "Death from Above" is a once-in-battle charge attack, supposing to give her a single attack with massive damage with her ridicilious ap, but charge damage bonus seems to be capped at 5 damage or just otherwise bugged. I was thinking that she could #onebattlespell Storm - I copystatted her to be able to fly at storms.

http://xs122.xs.to/xs122/07516/BlackTerror.JPG
- Hero for all ages of Bandar Log. I admit the backround is a bit odd, but I kinda hate the way how Rakhashas, Palanakhanas.. etc just go "boof" in MA. They should have somekind of presence beyond some nigh uncastable spells. Besides, heroes are supposed to be extraordinary and slightly wierd.

With #onebattlespell, I was thinking that the Black Terror could summon about 5-10 of these at the start of battle, to make more effective assasin.
http://xs122.xs.to/xs122/07516/Follower.JPG

http://xs122.xs.to/xs122/07516/AncientApe.JPG
- Hero for EA Kailaisa. I'm going to add chains to graph later. I hereby admit that it has references to King Kong, but when making a backround for a huge badass ape, you can't just ignore the most famous ape fo them all. Thanks for Tyrian for giving me a kick start. It could also be possible to move him around a bit. Give him as "gladiator" type hero for EA Mictlan and have him escape between EA and MA. and give him to MA Bandar Log

http://xs122.xs.to/xs122/07516/WhiteBandar.JPG
- Hero for all ages of Bandar Log. Nothing special to say about about him. Just your basic multihero all around.

EDIT: The Attachment contains the mod I use to work these heroes. It contains the graphics and the code for the afro-mentioned units.

[Tyrian]

Good job for these heroes. The idea for the first, using him at different age with different background is very good.

[Gregstrom]

The white ape could be a bandar silverback, a sort of wise man/tribal leader concept. Increased strength and attack skill over base bandar stats, and perhaps some minor magic skills. Nature 1, 100% NEWS? Lanka could do something similar, but N1, 100%ANDB.

[Burnsaber]

Okay, I've been working on some more hero graphics. Comments welcome.

http://xs322.xs.to/xs322/07524/Heroes2.gif

I've also a,used myself a bit more by working stats. QM will most likely tinker/finetune/completely revamp these ideas into something workable.

http://xs122.xs.to/xs122/07524/Doomsayer.JPG
- Let's start with the "odd" one for EA R'lyeh. I didn't feel like doing your friendly neighbourhood mage hero with some extra pics, and I was itching to make use of that creepy white-eye stare that I managed put into the graphic. "Doom is Nigh!" (should be "End is Nigh!", I admit) is a range 25 attack that brings fear like a wail from 3 banshees. "Follow Me" is a range 25 attack that tries to enslave three guys. In my testing, he seemed to pretty good at expanging into independents, but will porabably roll over to anything with mr >12. He summons 6 of these per turn. I was also amusing myself with the tought of him casting "Doom" that also affects your guys. He'd then be followed by a mixed rag-tag bunch of enslaved and cursed followers.
http://xs322.xs.to/xs322/07524/Ichtyidfollower.JPG


http://xs122.xs.to/xs122/07524/DruidoftheSeas.JPG
Basic mage hero for EA/MA oceania. It seems that I forgot to give +2 encumberance for being mounted..

http://xs322.xs.to/xs322/07524/LordofPearls.JPG
The forgebonus is 10%. He is the "price hero" for EA/MA oceania, giving good access to astral magic.

http://xs322.xs.to/xs322/07524/Blackprince.JPG
Basic melee hero for EA/MA oceania. I gave him 20% regeneration to prevent total suckage. If he needs further boosting, he could perhaps cast a wide area regeneration at the start of battle. Or have reinvogration.

http://xs322.xs.to/xs322/07524/StormKnight.JPG
Melee hero for EA and MA Caelum. Autosummons one Great Eagle every turn.

http://xs322.xs.to/xs322/07524/KingEagle.JPG
If the Storm Knight happens to die, this will be wrecking havoc for the rest of the battle.

http://xs322.xs.to/xs322/07524/KingZiz.JPG
Since the storm knight can't be in LA (LA caelum doesn't have temple guards), I quickly whipped this one up. The grapic is cheap, being basically a Ziz with the amulet slapped onto it.

http://xs.to/xs.php?f=Impostor.JPG&h=xs322&d=07523
Hero for LA Pythium. His base magic is F1D1W1N2H2 and he has 100% chance for one more in either F/D/W. He has gold cost of 600 gold (for upkeep purposes).

I'll be around for a week more, so if you have any ideas for ME Shinyama, ME Mictlan and LA Agartha heroes, speak up and I might do something about it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif.

[Turin]

Awesome stuff! If QM doesn�t incorporate those in the next version I�ll have to go back to updating worthy heroes myself http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif.

[Burnsaber]

Turin said:
Awesome stuff! If QM doesn�t incorporate those in the next version I�ll have to go back to updating worthy heroes myself http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif.



You liked the backrounds I whipped up for them? Even the Markata hero? I kinda feel that I overdid it. The stats are pretty much done "spur in the moment" are most likely unbalanced. QM is much more expirenced in that area. I'd just be glad to give him a solid backround for the heroes, since that's most likely the hardest part, IMHO. I'd like to keep QM's workload as small as possible.

[Turin]

Especially the Markata Hero! I wanted to add one of them for a long time, but could never create a cool backstory.

I didn�t see much stuff, which could be considered overpowered. I rather think you made some of them a bit too weak, e. g. Daughter of storms could gain some air magic, Old age should be avoided on heroes, unless absolutely necessary for backstory, the impostor could gain a magic level somewhere. That�s all really minor stuff though, I think you hit the desired balance level pretty much exactly.

I noticed some typos though, e.g. storm hero "standarts" , descend upon his enemies.

[Burnsaber]

Yeah, I'll have to spellcheck them. I have one more hero on the makings and then I'll release my heroes as an unofficial add-on to WH 1.8 (fixing typoes, making the monster/weapon/armor numbers match to WH linings.. That sort of thing). It'll be easy for QM to tinker stuff on that and will satisfy the ones needy for new content.

[Burnsaber]

And I'm done! Attached is a "Burning Heroes" - mod. It is basically WH 1.8 with my heroes added, combined with some structure changes to the WH mod itself (I basically alphapetized the .dm file and readme, the orginal ordering is a chaotic mess). It is 100% playable, although it was orginally intended for QM's eyes only, but some heroes are pretty weak since I wasn't able to use #onebattlespell with them yet.

Oh, QM. I didn't include the Brothers of War in this, so you'll have to add it yourself.

Some heroes that are included in it, but I haven't shown yet.

I "scrapped" the orginal idea for the Big Ape hero, and made three versions of him.

http://xs123.xs.to/xs123/08014/KingoftheJungle.JPG
He is a hero for Kailaisa. He has animalawe.

http://xs123.xs.to/xs123/08014/ImprisonedKing.JPG
Now he is a hero MA Mictlan

http://xs123.xs.to/xs123/08014/AncientApe2.JPG
And then he returns as a hero for Patala. He gets one bloodslave per month.

Then I whipped (pun intented) him for LA Agartha.
http://xs122.xs.to/xs122/07526/Dragontrainer.JPG

He summons these (2 per turn)
http://xs122.xs.to/xs122/07526/Whippeddrake.JPG
It has berserk 3, which is pretty good for Cave Drakes, sine it icreases their already impressive natural armor, and takes care of the low morale and attack.

[Morkilus]

Cool, thanks Burnsaber.

[mathusalem]

really cool stuff !

[Edi]

QM, it looks like this here mod is in need of a new update with v3.15.

There's a new hero for LA Abysia, Ba'an Rachis the Slayer Dragon who needs his WH boost. There's also a problem with the Champion of the Horn because it looks like double dashes ( -- ) can't be used to comment out lines. The commands are still read. So that one appears in the pretender list for everyone because it's copystatted from Mother of Lions.

Probably needs the # characters removed from the beginning of each line.

[lch]

Edi said:
There's also a problem with the Champion of the Horn


Yup. Every nation gets a free Champion of the Horn pretender from Marverni. How considerate of them!

[Sombre]

That bug is easy to fix. Just restrict that unit as a pretender to an unused nation slot.

Anyway I guess WH is sort of obsolete, since it's been folded into CBM.

[Dedas]

Will that mean that you need to use CBM to use new version of WH?

[Edi]

Not necessarily. Some of us still play the vanilla game, but prefer beefed up heroes. I might well give CBM a go, but on the whole I tend to use Better Indies to cut down on the chaff.

WH just needs an update after the next patch to account for the Hinnom, Ashdod and Gath heroes and the heroes that appeared in 3.15 (Slayer Dragon).

As far as fixing the Champion of the Horn, just deleteing # from in front of each command for him will remove him entirely.

[Sombre]

Why would you want to remove him entirely when you can fix the bug with him even more easily?

[lch]

So, is there going to be a non-CBM version of this mod for 3.15/3.16? I think that there's definitely interest in that.

[Dedas]

Yes, sign me up on that one.

[Wauthan]

Excellent work Burnsaber. Your heroes have found a good home in my own rebalance mod. Kudos for the easy to understand comments in the .dm file.

[Sombre]

I guess there will be a non cbm WH for 3.16/3.17, yeah.

[Alderanas]

is there a zip of the most recent update or does it update it automatically

[Edi]

Mods never update automatically. You need to download the updated version and add it to the mods folder manually.

[reverend]

Does the 1.8 version work with the 3.15 patch, or do we have to wait for the updated version?

[Dedas]

It works (with at least one minor "bug").

[TheMenacer]

Any hope of seeing an updated version of this mod for 3.15/3.17, or is it pretty much done?

[Aezeal]

Be carefull with questions like that...

[quantum_mechani]

I'm more like KO than Edi, a little prodding is sometimes needed. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

A new versions is in the works, hopefully released some time the next few weeks.

[DaveCG]

Sorry to bother you with more questions, but will you be including the "burning" heroes? as some of them are really great, hope you do and thanks for you great work so far.

[Burnsaber]

I'm also quite intrested on hearing the anwser to DaveCG's question. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

I'd also like to use this opportunity to emphazise that the "burning heroes" are 100% under QM's whims and his to downgrade/ upgrade/ tinker/ totally revamp. I won't take any ill blood or silly reactions to any decision. I had lots of fun while making them, that's what matters most.

Also I suggest to read the comments on my code. Some of the heroes lack vital #onebattlespell commands due to them not being available on the time I made the mod. I have too few holidays to work the code (well, actually I tried doing some code one lone weekend, but it seems I forgot everything in 3 months! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif). I'll be getting a laptop in 1-2 months and I should be able to do some work from the military (Corporal Medic doesn't have much to do in the barracks. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif). Until that, I probably will probably not do much towards finishing those few bastards.

[quantum_mechani]

Yes, some burning heroes will very likely be making it in. I would like to do some fun things with #onebattlespell too, but it can be pretty time intensive working out the glitches sometimes.

[DaveCG]

Very cool, thanks a lot for answering and can't wait to play it, and remember losing is fu...wait a moment....

DAMN YOU DWARF FORTRESS!

Damn you...

[Burnsaber]

Heh, that was simpler than I expected it to be.

I made a new version of Burning heroes where I fixed the #onebattlespell stuff. Stormknight now has his Great Eagle buddies and so forth.

I used the "copy a vanilla spell and modify the orginal" trick to get #onebattlespell use my custom spells. I tested that the copies work just as the orginals.

I also updated the look of the Dragon Tamer. His bright steel shield was a eyesore.

Like the the former version, this is 100% playable.

[iceboy]

Burnsaber said:
Heh, that was simpler than I expected it to be.

I made a new version of Burning heroes where I fixed the #onebattlespell stuff. Stormknight now has his Great Eagle buddies and so forth.

I used the "copy a vanilla spell and modify the orginal" trick to get #onebattlespell use my custom spells. I tested that the copies work just as the orginals.

I also updated the look of the Dragon Tamer. His bright steel shield was a eyesore.

Like the the former version, this is 100% playable.



Is this the official new version?

[quantum_mechani]

No, I'll start a new thread when that is ready. But some burning heroes will be in it.

[iceboy]

I would recommend balancing the Niefel Hero that spams Jotun Hirdmen. In twenty turns you have a hero that can run the map pretty quickly.... I laid waste with this hero...

[iceboy]

Is an update still planned for this great mod? :)

[Epaminondas]

This is wonderful! Is there one that incorporates the new batch of giant nations we got in the May patch (I think)?

[HoneyBadger]

I was wondering if there was any real interest in a "Surtr" hero for Abyssia-Surtr being the king of the Muspelheim Jotuns. Since there's no Muspelheim in the game currently (Not from lack of interest!), and since Abyssia has taken up that role-atleast until someone creates a decent Muspelheim-in either mod or vanilla version-I thought it might be quite interesting to have Surtr show up to fight for the Abyssian cause, lacking as he does a Nation of his own.

He'd have roughly the same stats as the Niefel Pretender (Surtr is supposed to be a *MAJORLY* bad guy, so this isn't out of the question), but all of his abilities would be Fire and Death, instead of Water and Death. He'd also be a good candidate for summoning and leading Smoulderghosts, which I *think* require Fire + Death.

This would be very thematic, in that there's a lot more material on cold-giants than fire-giants in the Norse Myths (It's just basically Surtr and his wife, Sin, leading a vague bunch of unnamed entities), so having Surtr show up in Abyssia would explain that, since maybe there's not very many fire giants around, and maybe "Muspelheim" is just another name for Abyssia.

He'd be a hero for all three Abyssian eras, since Surtr's supposed to be the general of Ragnarock.

By the way, is there any "Worthy Heroes" list of which nations have empty hero slots to be filled? Now that we have access to 6 hero slots and 6 multihero slots, there has to be some available space for almost every nation.

[Beorne]

Will this mod be updated again?
Thanks

[Tichy]

I think the "Throne of Heroes" mod is the working update. Someone correct me if that's wrong and this mod should still be considered current.

[Xietor]

Throne of Heroes is an update to the middle era only. It is current.

And Throne of Heroes was Turin approved and had Turin editing. Turin being the Author of Worthy Heroes.

QM I think is still planning a WH 1.9 for all 3 eras. He has my permission to use the entire Throne of Heroes, or any part of it he wants in his WH 1.9 update.

[iceboy]

W.H 1.9 still in the works?

[militarist]

It would be cool if Worthy Heroes would make each nation to have 3 heroes. It' doesn't change the balance, but really makes more fun from the game directly.

[Ragnarok-X]

I dont see a download link in the opening post.

[Trumanator]

This mod is incorporated into CBM. If you don't want to actually use CBM, you should be able to copy out the heroes section of CBM and use it as its own mod. You'll need to add a few lines yourself to make it fully functional, but they're not hard and your mod manual will tell you how.

[militarist]

I wrote it in сbm thread.. but it's more a question for for this thread, obviously. Heroes is a stong, funny element of a game wiсh doesn't really affect the ballanсe a lot, but really makes game muсh funnier. I believe the more heroes the better. I сan not understand why Hinnom has so many сool heroes..3?4? and there are still nations like Helheim where it's <3. Making at least 4 for eaсh nation would be good, even 5 would not сhange something. And getting to aссount total domination of order 3, more heroes will just make luсk more valuable, that's is not unreasonable.

[Globu]

I do agree -- they are a great element, lots of fun, and the more the merrier as far as I'm concerned.

[Gandalf Parker]

There is also a mod called Epic Heroes. I run Epic Heroes and Worthy Heroes together. I havent checked to see if one might be overwriting the other so I might not be getting all the heros I would if I edited it. But at least Im pretty sure it doesnt crash. I also like to add Mytheology (more pretenders) and Magic Sites Mod (more sites) which kindof blows the balance thing. But great for solo play.

Toss in a bunch of nation mods and its a whole new game. :)

[Burnsaber]

I wrote it in сbm thread.. but it's more a question for for this thread, obviously. Heroes is a stong, funny element of a game wiсh doesn't really affect the ballanсe a lot, but really makes game muсh funnier. I believe the more heroes the better. I сan not understand why Hinnom has so many сool heroes..3?4? and there are still nations like Helheim where it's <3. Making at least 4 for eaсh nation would be good, even 5 would not сhange something. And getting to aссount total domination of order 3, more heroes will just make luсk more valuable, that's is not unreasonable.

Actually, I made heroes long a while ago (year 2007) to be exact to fill up some nations that have <3 heroes. I have been talking about QM about including them, but the recent "no-clam" huffbuff delayed their inclusion. He said on IrC that he will get some of them in for the next version. I had screenies on the page 3 and 4 of this thread, but the hosting site has replaced them with ads.

I've compressed the screenies into a .zip* file below for all those who are intrested. I'll probably do some futher cleaning up on them and remove some #onebattlespell autosummons, since QM does not like those, but the concepts are somewhat sound.

*There is one screenshot missing of the Helheim hero, Hanged King.

If QM is intrested, I've gotten some further hero ideas now that I'm a lot more familiar with the nations in question.

At least Helheim should get somekind of "Hel" as an heroine. I mean, the whole nation is named after her!

[Gandalf Parker]

Maybe you can contact the Epic Heroes guy for some that dont fit the new Worthy Heroes balanced theme. Id really like to see more along that line.

[llamabeast]

I thought Hel was a place (a bit like hell)?

[Burnsaber]

I thought Hel was a place (a bit like hell)?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hel_%28being%29

She could a good pretender choice, but because Helheim lacks heroes, I might go into a more "inspired by Hel" territory. Perhaps somesort of sorceress that is half-dead and half-alive (like literally) who once ruled over the underworld and serves the awakening god to get her queendom back.

I'm a bit dissapointed on the fact there is not Thor/ Loki/ Tyr/ Hel equivalents in dom3, but if their powers and the concept is a bit watered down, they could make for some excellent heroes.

[Gandalf Parker]

Would be a good suggestion to the Mytheology mod (which adds pretenders). Particularly since you wouldnt have to be too concerned with watering down and balancing then.

[Squirrelloid]

Arguably Thor is just a Titan pretender. I mean, he's a mountain and lightning god. The niche is filled.

I don't know what you think you'd do with Tyr. He's a god of justice and oaths, which is... largely irrelevant to statting him out. So arguably he can just be some random titan chassis, say General of the West, or whatever else floats your boat.

There's an argument to be made for adding the Lord of Rebirth to the vanheim pretender set as a Baldr representation.

The only reason Hel is hard to represent is because of gender. I mean, PoD sort of covers the thematic territory rather well...

Loki can possibly be shoe-horned in somewhere, although he probably has the best claim to not being representable by the game. (Its not clear to me which nation should be allowed to choose such a pretender. Vanheim, because he was adopted as half-brother by Odin? But he's trying to destroy the aesir and vanir and will fight against them at Ragnarok, so... Niefl/Jotun/Utgard pretender?)

The point of pretenders isn't to represent specific divine beings, but to represent common concepts of divine beings. That we have an 'its obviously Heimdall' pretender is kind of ridiculous, since he's a minor god hardly worth including in the game, and with basically no analogs in other myth sets, and isn't notably different from other choices already available to Vanheim. (Oh gee, another AE titan chassis, how lovely).

[Gandalf Parker]

What would be really fun is to somehow provide Loki a random thing that fills in his "trickster" persona. All I can think of is an external program that can be run on pre-exec or post-exec switch to randomize something and write the change to the .dm file (which does seem to work on some things).

Getting too far OT. but.. do .dm files have an option to read in other files? chaining? it would keep the original .dm cleaner

[Burnsaber]

Arguably Thor is just a Titan pretender. I mean, he's a mountain and lightning god. The niche is filled.


Does he ride a chariot drawn by immortal goats? Can he smite niefelheim giants with Mjöllnjir? Sure, the Titan might *play out* somewhat like Thor equivalent would but it would not feel like Thor for us who get our kicks from stuff like this.

But you are very correct about their rebundancy as pretenders. As cool as a Thor pretender would be, he would not give anything that Vanheim needs out of a pretender and would thus be never used. Hel would make a poor goddess for Helheim because they have no uses for a Titan chassis with D magic.

Hence the hero idea. The idea of heroes is that they are certain know characters of myth. Thor would make a fine hero, air and earth magic, custom modded throwable mjöllnjir that smites giants. Sure he won't be a size 6 titan or a "god", but anyone who would see him would recognize him and could get the kicks out of kicking a*s with Thor.

As for Loki, he could a be "unique" hero for all Vanheims/Helheim and niefel nations. If another nation gets him while he in the service of another, he goes *boof* (like a unique that was wished for) and starts serving the other nation. It could be kind of annoying, but the bizarre rarity of that event and the utter thematicness of it should balance that aspect out.

[Squirrelloid]

Arguably Thor is just a Titan pretender. I mean, he's a mountain and lightning god. The niche is filled.


Does he ride a chariot drawn by immortal goats? Can he smite niefelheim giants with Mjöllnjir? Sure, the Titan might *play out* somewhat like Thor equivalent would but it would not feel like Thor for us who get our kicks from stuff like this.


Mjolnir is a metaphor, in that particular aspect for lightning, and its impact is thunder. The Titan pretender throws lightning bolts = Mjolnir. Just because its listed as lightning instead of a hammer takes nothing away from it - we've merely deconstructed the metaphor. (Kind of necessary since there are lots of Thor equivalents, none of whom use a hammer as a metaphor for lightning. Eg, Zeus).

I grant there are no goats pulling a chariot. Imagine that as his own personal air ship or something, so you'd have to forge it for him. Or perhaps that's his version of casting flight on himself.

A generalized pretender idea will never meet all the specifics in their specific aspect for a given mythological figure who exemplifies that type. But with a little imagination all the essential bits will be found, even if it requires deconstructing the metaphors built into the myth.

[Sombre]

You're right, why add any worthy heroes at all? :P

[Burnsaber]

Mjolnir is a metaphor, in that particular aspect for lightning, and its impact is thunder. The Titan pretender throws lightning bolts = Mjolnir. Just because its listed as lightning instead of a hammer takes nothing away from it - we've merely deconstructed the metaphor. (Kind of necessary since there are lots of Thor equivalents, none of whom use a hammer as a metaphor for lightning. Eg, Zeus).

I grant there are no goats pulling a chariot. Imagine that as his own personal air ship or something, so you'd have to forge it for him. Or perhaps that's his version of casting flight on himself.

A generalized pretender idea will never meet all the specifics in their specific aspect for a given mythological figure who exemplifies that type. But with a little imagination all the essential bits will be found, even if it requires deconstructing the metaphors built into the myth.

Oh, wow. I've bethered by the lack of Thor since Dom:PPP, but all these years all I needed to do was to take the titan dressed in a *toga*, and just have incredible suspension of disbelief to pretend that the dude on my computer screen that has *none* of the iconic trappings of Thor would be Thor. Oh, silly me. :re:

But hey, if you have the mental capacity for that kind selective percepition, that's just more power to you.

Anyways, in this kind of pointless since I already agreed on that havng them as pretenders would be a bad idea.

[Xietor]

Burn, though i have not played this game in quite some time, I was tinkering with my mods to get them to work with windows 7. If you recall, several of your heroes are in Throne of Heroes, which is a Worthy Heroes Mod updated for the middle era.

If you get bored I need a lobster sprite. I am adding heroes to a couple of the EA races too(just the ones I like to play against Zoshan). ea Ryleh and EA Abysia have heroes now in addition to the Middle era. But I have not posted the link because I am still working on EA Ryleh.

I also found where the Kitsume(ma shin.) only had two misc slots(an error i missed from the last edit).

Have fun!

btw in real life i turned 50 and benched 370 after my 50th birthday. It is recorded on youtube for nonbelievers! Kristopher is going to have to redo human warriors and tinker with old age stats so the str. does not decline until age 60 or so.

[Burnsaber]

Burn, though i have not played this game in quite some time, I was tinkering with my mods to get them to work with windows 7. If you recall, several of your heroes are in Throne of Heroes, which is a Worthy Heroes Mod updated for the middle era.

If you get bored I need a lobster sprite. I am adding heroes to a couple of the EA races too(just the ones I like to play against Zoshan). ea Ryleh and EA Abysia have heroes now in addition to the Middle era. But I have not posted the link because I am still working on EA Ryleh.


Hi! Glad to see that you're still modding.

Yeah, I recall the Throne of Heroes mod, I'm also intent on working some more heroes and bringing the old "burning" heroes up to date.

Unfortunately I'm a bit busy right now so I can't help you with the lobster, but I think that there all sorts of pics of sea monsters in the mytheology mod. Perhaps you could borrow the pic you need from there?

[Xietor]

Yeah, i do not actually want a "lobster" per se, but a sea monster that can themeatically fit into ea ryleh.

I may be able to find one. Have not really looked much yet. Zoshan's favorite race is ea ryleh and he just asked me today to make another Throne of hero for that race. there are 3 presently-one that comes with the game.

[Redeyes]

btw in real life i turned 50 and benched 370 after my 50th birthday. It is recorded on youtube for nonbelievers! Kristopher is going to have to redo human warriors and tinker with old age stats so the str. does not decline until age 60 or so.Heroic attributes increase with time, quicker than attributes decrease; thus, the game already already has a proper way to model you.

[lch]

Actually, I made heroes long a while ago (year 2007) to be exact to fill up some nations that have <3 heroes.
Lots of years ago, I constantly received messages with "<3" in them, until I asked the person "Why the heck do you write less than three all the time?" which resulted, among similar other things due to grandiose stupidity, in a blaze of anger on the other side. :doh: Could you please spell things in full? What has been seen can't be unseen anymore... :cold:

[Burnsaber]

Lots of years ago, I constantly received messages with "<3" in them, until I asked the person "Why the heck do you write less than three all the time?" which resulted, among similar other things due to grandiose stupidity, in a blaze of anger on the other side. :doh: Could you please spell things in full? What has been seen can't be unseen anymore... :cold:

IMO: OMG, lul wut?

[Burnsaber]

Since I mentioned my intentions to update the WH here, I think it would be fair to announce here that the project is complete.

Here is the thread for the just released WH 1.9 (http://z7.invisionfree.com/Dom3mods/index.php?)

[Gandalf Parker]

It looks great. Thanks. Definitely one of my always-grab mods :)