Spiralus PBW discussion thread.

[Dragonlord]

Hi all,

OK, this will be the thread in which the 7 players of the Spiralus PBW game will exchange Messages and comments. I prefer using Shrapnel for this rather than the forums at the PBW site, this site is faster and we know from our previous game (the PBW newbie thread) that other's like to keep tabs on how our game is progressing.

The Spiralus game has just started, and the first turn has been mailed out to everyone. This is my first attempt at being a game host so I hope I did not mess anything up.
As a Last minute change (as requested) I changed the unit and ship maximums, to 2500 and 400 respectively.

One small thing that worries me is that, on my first turn, I noticed I am still using a modified systemnames.txt. I'm pretty sure you guys don't see systems named Florida and such. Best case scenario, this will only mess up future negotiations since we won't know what systems we are talking about.
I wonder if I can fix this by replacing my systemnames file with the original one, have to check if I can do that mid-game.

Remember to install the Dragon shipset (from the PBW site File Library) if you want to see my ships correctly.
Email me if you have any questions about this.

[Phoenix-D]

Systemnames is only used when you make the map. We'll see the names.

I screwed up my race, and my game standing.. I withdrew to make some minor changes, then forgot to save. Result? Back to square one with the race. Oh well, they WERE minor changes.

Phoenix-D

[BeeDee10]

One mistake I am certain that Corporal BeeDee is going to make at some point is to forget to switch his path to TDM Modpack for a turn. I'm certain of this because Corporal BeeDee has already forgotten it for his very first turn. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Anyway, does anyone know what the reprecussions of such a grievous error are? Since TDM doesn't mess around much with the components, it's my understanding that there wouldn't be much of a problem. But Corporal BeeDee is nonetheless concerned about screwing things up for others.

Corporal BeeDee is also way too proud about attaining the meaningless rank of "corporal" here on this forum, and will now stop referring to himself in the third person in the future. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Puke]

at least your not making the PFCs call you 'Sir.'

"Sir, the Private believes that any answer he gives will be incorrect, and the Sergeant will punish him more, sir!"

------------------
"...the green, sticky spawn of the stars"
(with apologies to H.P.L.)

[BeeDee10]

If I did that, then I'm sure everyone over Corporal would start making me call _them_ sir. Better to not open that can of worms. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Phoenix-D]

The only effect should be a totally disorienting change in empire graphics for you. Nothing else.

Phoenix-D

[Dragonlord]

How does everyone like their starting position ?
I haven't done any exploring yet, but am ancient race, and I expect I'll be meeting multiple races soon..

[Dragonlord]

Guys,

Since a lot of my other PBW games are suddenly terminating, I find myself with some extra time. I am considering creating yet another game, and would like to ask around here to see if somebody would be interested in a game like this:

NO AI players at all
Medium Mid-life galaxy
All warp points NOT connected, I but have regenerated maps till I had one where at least all systems are reachable.
No Intel (till the bug gets fixed).
Low tech start, 3 good-value planets, 2000 or 3000 racial points.
Circa 10 players.

What would happen: with 10 players in a galaxy this size you can expand quite a bit before hitting the diplomacy phase. You are likely to have only one or two neighbors initially, and comm channel trades become ever more important to get access to more T&R treaties. (or use cloaked deep space scouts like I like to do, to establish contact with other races).
Stellar manipulation would be important, with one wormhole opener you could cut your travel time to another section of the galaxy by a tenfold.
More players would be more fun, but I don't want the turns to take ages to come in. 24 hour turnaround max is what I had in mind.

What do you think? Any other ideas on game config ?

[Phoenix-D]

I prefer games with smaller numbers of players for now, thanks.

I would suggest using Warp Points anywhere- it can add a lot to the game.

Phoenix-D

[Shoujo]

Hello sirs. Guess I'm the only private here... Don't be too harsh on me will you http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon12.gif

So far I love my starting positon especially because of the planets in my system (huge breathable planet rich in minerals. Yum). It's too early to tell whether or not I'll like my neighbors, hopefully whichever one of you is my neighbor believes in world peace, and not galactic conquest.

Just wondering, but what happens in games where not all warp points are connected? Will you just see the graphic of a warp point, only when you try to warp through you can't go through it or something? On the subject of warp points, I wish there were ways to stabilize unstable warp points (especially since you have the tech to create them, would it be too hard to stabilize a pre-existing warp point?) or one-way warp-points. Could be fun.

Would anyone consider playing a game where empires can start anywhere (even in the same system)?

[BeeDee10]

I'm peace-loving! Just ask the guys from Newbie II! http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

As for the not-all-warp-points-connected, I think that option is poorly worded. It should say something like "not all _systems_ connected" instead. Basically, the game will not guarantee that every system can be reached by every other system if this option is enabled; you can (and usually do) wind up with separate clusters and "islands" of systems that do not connect with each other.

Edit> To illustrate the difference in case my description wasn't clear, try generating a few maps with the option disabled and then generate a few more with the option enabled to see the difference (this is by clicking "generate map" at the game setup stage).

[This message has been edited by BeeDee10 (edited 25 July 2001).]

[CW]

I'm having real trouble registering in PBW. It keeps telling me registration failed but I can't find the reason. My real name obviously was not wrong, email was triple-checked and correct, tried a few different login names including the one I used here (CW), but nothing made it work. I can make use of some help.

[BeeDee10]

Now, in response to Dragonlord's original question, it looks like a nice setup but I'm still not sure how many games I should be playing simultaneously. I tend to put a lot of effort into my communications, it takes a while to type it all in and keep my notes in sufficient detail. I guess I could handle one more, but that's getting near my limit. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Note that there is a bug in the current Version of SEIV that causes maps created by clicking "generate map" to have no ruins anywhere, even if you've got ruins enabled. So if you generate a map that way, there will be no ruins present.

[Dragonlord]

Beedee: Ouch. I guess that means no ruins in Spiralus. Hmm the bug introduces an interesting tradeoff though.. what would you like better, a game with ruins or a game where I've tried to get a map optimised for tactical and strategical deviousness?

As for the number of games you can be in: when I started PBW I was not sure either. Now, I can tell you that at the max I was on 6 games, which altogether took me about 2 hours daily (on average). I try to arrange it so that I have some games going which are slow starts (like the one-planet start in the Dracus game) and they take me maybe 5-10 minutes per turn, and one or two bigger games. For example I was in what I called to my girlfriend "the big game" which was a 10-player, 5-planet start medium mid-life galaxy slugfest called "Letharg". In the final stages that game took me an hour a day.

Currently the games I'm still in altogether take up about 20-30 minutes a day, so I'm trying to create another "big game". The 5-planet starts (like Newbie II) obviously get big sooner. And Beedee trust me, the diplomacy in Newbie II was nothing compared to the complex negotiations in the Letharg game, although we didn't send such lengthy in-game in-character Messages there, most went via email.

I've tried attaching two of the maps I generated in the fashion described in my earlier post, hope it works since I've never sent files to this forum before.

[Rollo]

Hi everybody,
first a couple of answers/remarks to your Posts:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> originally posted by Shoujo:
Hello sirs. Guess I'm the only private here... Don't be too harsh on me will you http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon12.gif

So far I love my starting position especially because of the planets in my system (huge breathable planet rich in minerals. Yum). It's too early to tell whether or not I'll like my neighbors, hopefully whichever one of you is my neighbor believes in world peace, and not galactic conquest. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Shoujo, don't worry. You not the only private http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif. The Space Vikings led by myself can make good neighbors. Looking forward to contact with you.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> originally posted by Dragonlord:
What do you think? Any other ideas on game config ? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I like the idea of a map with all warp points NOT connected that ARE connected http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/confused.gif. Okay, let's call it "few warp points". Would you consider making that an ancient quadrant type? This way you would really have to plan out military campaigns with complete task forces instead of "just" fleets. IMHO that would really make an interesting game. Stellar Manipulation becomes even more important.
No AI and 10 players sounds good, but fewer players should also work.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> originally posted by CW:
I'm having real trouble registering in PBW. It keeps telling me registration failed but I can't find the reason. My real name obviously was not wrong, email was triple-checked and correct, tried a few different login names including the one I used here (CW), but nothing made it work. I can make use of some help. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmm, that's odd. The only help I can offer is suggesting that you try a different email. Maybe the site doesn't like your email address. Make a new (generic) email account and try it with that.

Okay, now to my own issues:<UL TYPE=SQUARE>
<LI> I have noticed that the Yvelon Republic led by Shounjo is using the same shipset as I do. To avoid confusion I will add a "(SV)" for Space Vikings to all my ship classes. I will also use the Scandinavian names most of the time. So, if you see something like "Alesund (SV) class", that ship should be mine (unless having been boarded or converted, of course http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon12.gif).
I suggest that Shounjo will also add a "YR" for Yvelon Republic (or something like it) to his ship classes just to make sure.

<LI> Just for the record, I live in the central European time zone (Berlin, GMT+1). What time zones are you guys living in?

<LI> I think we should set up a few house rules (code of honor, whatever...). Here are my proposals:
1. Diplomatic contact outside the game via email is allowed (and even encouraged).
2. The use of another players password (should it be known) is strictly prohibited unless approved by that player (I guess, that goes without saying...).
3. Since some players (myself included) are in multiple games, "cross trading" should not be allowed. What I mean with that is deals like: "Heh, xyz, if you give me Mines in Junkyard, I'll give you Fighters in Spiralus". While this cannot be controlled, it should be considered bad behavior and frowned upon http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/tongue.gif.

Any comments/additions/suggestions/applause?

<LI> Last, but not least, I wish everybody good luck and happy expansion...
[/list]

Okay, enough for now,

Rollo, Space Vikings

[Phoenix-D]

I don't really care for ruins anyway.. depending on what you find, they can give a HUGE advantage to one player.

Phoenix-D

[Dragonlord]

OK, I guess it will be a no ruins game, though I kinda like racing with others towards ruins planets.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rollo:

<LI> I have noticed that the Yvelon Republic led by Shounjo is using the same shipset as I do. To avoid confusion I will add a "(SV)" for Space Vikings to all my ship classes. I will also use the Scandinavian names most of the time. So, if you see something like "Alesund (SV) class", that ship should be mine (unless having been boarded or converted, of course http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon12.gif).
I suggest that Shounjo will also add a "YR" for Yvelon Republic (or something like it) to his ship classes just to make sure.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I think that is a very good idea.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rollo:

<LI> Just for the record, I live in the central European time zone (Berlin, GMT+1). What time zones are you guys living in?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The time zones are all listed in every email you get with a turn, although it won't show who is who. We have some Americans, a German and a Japanese player in Spiralus.


<LI> I think we should set up a few house rules (code of honor, whatever...). Here are my proposals:
1. Diplomatic contact outside the game via email is allowed (and even encouraged).
2. The use of another players password (should it be known) is strictly prohibited unless approved by that player (I guess, that goes without saying...).
3. Since some players (myself included) are in multiple games, "cross trading" should not be allowed. What I mean with that is deals like: "Heh, xyz, if you give me Mines in Junkyard, I'll give you Fighters in Spiralus". While this cannot be controlled, it should be considered bad behavior and frowned upon http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/tongue.gif.

Any comments/additions/suggestions/applause?
[/B]

1) Definitely encouraged.
2) Of course, prohibited. But as far as I know every empire file has a password on it. If you forgot to include one, and are logging on with blank passwords, you can change this within the game under Empire Options.
3) I would definitely frown on such behavior.


I am glad you like my suggested map. The map will have several clusters of systems which are only connected by one line.
As for ancient quadrant type: I never use it, so remind me , how does that affect things? I seem to recall someone saying it gives you way too many black holes and asteroid fields...

As for number of players, I'm not so sure anymore if I'd like more than 10. I'm now thinking it is not so much the number of players which holds up a game, but the timezones they are in. Maybe 7-8 is better, depending on where they are from.

For example, in Spiralus I am already noticing the following: when a new turn becomes available it is usually afternoon or evening for us in America (not necessarily Americans). We here usually upload our turns within 1-2 hours after the turn is available. Then we wait until around 10 PM EST for Shoujo to get to his PC and send in his turn, but then it's 4 AM in Germany and it'll take another 4-5 hours for Rollo to be able to get his turn in. (I think he does it right before going to work/school or does it first thing when he gets there, judging by log timestamps). Then the next turn gets processed (3 AM in the US) and for some reason y'all in the US are nightowls like me cause you all upload immediately, even in the middle of the night. But then we're back to waiting for Japan... http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon9.gif

I considered making a game that's restricted to all-American or all-European players, but decided that would not be fair. Also because I like everyone in the Spiralus game and would rather have somewhat slower turns with good diplomatic interactions than fast turns with unknown players which perhaps don't interact as well.

One tip, though this probably goes without saying: if you see that you are the Last person to upload, and you have a limited time-window to play in each day, please send in two back-to-back turns.

[Dragonlord]

Guys,
I have just figured out what the Statistics and History links do on the PBW site.

The Statistics is an admin function only. It is similar to "show scores: all" within the game. I don't know why this feature exists cause it can give the admin an unfair advantage, so I have turned it off for this game since we have a "score display: allied".

The History, I think, is a new feature and it allows you to see for all players how quick they were in uploading turns and how often they missed a turn.
Pretty useful, and according to the PBW admins it will get even better in the future.

[BeeDee10]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dragonlord:
OK, I guess it will be a no ruins game, though I kinda like racing with others towards ruins planets.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Especially considering that you're an ancient race, eh? http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Personally, I rarely use the unique ruin tech. The only one I really lust after is the planetary shielding now that it's been souped up in the latest patch.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I am glad you like my suggested map. The map will have several clusters of systems which are only connected by one line.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Choke points good. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>As for ancient quadrant type: I never use it, so remind me , how does that affect things? I seem to recall someone saying it gives you way too many black holes and asteroid fields...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

"Way too much" is in the eye of the beholder. It completely screws up the AIs, they are extremely stupid when it comes to handling long distances between resupply depots and travel through black holes/damaging warp points. However, I think that features like this can be positively dreamy when you're up against a whole bunch of humans. It requires a lot more preparation before and during invasions.

As for timing considerations, I don't mind only having one or maybe two turns per day; once we're past the initial slowness of the first year or two I'm sure things will be complicated enough to keep me interested. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Puke]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BeeDee10:
Note that there is a bug in the current Version of SEIV that causes maps created by clicking "generate map" to have no ruins anywhere, even if you've got ruins enabled. So if you generate a map that way, there will be no ruins present.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

yeah. and let me tell you, the third time you have to generate a .GAM file for a 20 player game, it gets really old.
(no, i didnt make the same mistake twice, the first regen was because one of the EMPs was wrong)

[Dragonlord]

Beedee, I understand what you mean about the ancient galaxy, though I'm not entirely convinced yet. Let's see what the others have to say about it.

Newsflash: there *are* ruins in the Spiralus game, even though I pre-generated the map.
There are about 20 planets with ruins, although for some reason almost all of them are scattered around the southern half of the galaxy.
I don't go for the unique tech in ruins, I never us it. But I do like the occasional find, if you are real lucky you'll get colonisation tech or something else that's both expensive and useful. Although I usually get tech that is medium-expensive but that I would not normally research, such as Satellites II. Still, it's nice to have slightly better sats, or troops, or resource extraction.

[Rollo]

I like ancient maps. Makes the exploration stage so much fun. (Maybe you should turn off your ancient trait to fully enjoy them http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon12.gif). BeeDee is right about the AI not able to handle them. But since it's a humans only game that doesn't matter.

[Rollo]

Heh, I just saw that everybody but one has their turn done already. Maybe I should stay up half an hour longer before going to bed and see if I can send in another one.

[BeeDee10]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dragonlord:
Newsflash: there *are* ruins in the Spiralus game, even though I pre-generated the map.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Interesting. I never actually confirmed that bug myself, since I tend not to pre-generate maps when playing single-player. Wonder if it's sporadic and we just got lucky...

[Dragonlord]

I just generated a map with the ancient galaxy setting, and it looked horrible ! Fully 50 to 60% of the systems are either black holes, nebulae, or asteroid fields.
Please explain this to me again: why is that good?

[BeeDee10]

It's good because it adds a lot of interesting buffer space between your valuable systems. Nebulas and black holes have strategic value for attack and defence, and the distances involved force you to think about supply lines and things like that when you send your fleets out. Since systems with useable planets are rarer, they become a lot more valuable; this changes the strategy too (you can't have "throwaway" colonies out on the border to slow down an enemy advance, for example). Remote mining can become actually significant to your economy, and then you have to defend all those remote mining satellites strewn about in the asteroid systems too.

With standard mid-life maps, for example, you can almost always avoid the black hole systems. But what if you _had_ to transit one in order to reach enemy territory?

Of course, this isn't necessarily a "better" way to play, just different. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Rollo]

BeeDee, we both agree on this (You just make a much better point than I do, thanks http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon12.gif). This is what I meant with military campaigns being more difficult to prepare and needing actual task forces.
I think we should give it a try with an ancient map. Maybe just a few players for a test. I also suggest not to allow ancient race special traits (sorry, Dragonlord), because this spoils most of the fun.

Rollo

[This message has been edited by Rollo (edited 26 July 2001).]

[Dragonlord]

Hmm yes maybe we should try this with 4 players or so. And yes, ancient race would not be a fun trait to have on such a map.

Im still a little puzzled about black holes though...always have been. What's the big deal with them? My ships always safely make it past a black hole, it just takes a little bit longer to traverse the systems because you get sucked towards the black hole for 2 sectors worth of movement, but since ships have a speed of 6 to 12, they never actually get sucked into the thing.

Nebuleas I can understand, good to make resupply stations in or for forcing combat with no shields. (or was that black holes again, the no shields thing?)

[BeeDee10]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dragonlord:
Hmm yes maybe we should try this with 4 players or so. And yes, ancient race would not be a fun trait to have on such a map.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, I don't have anything against ancient race myself; you pay your points and you get your maps. :)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Im still a little puzzled about black holes though...always have been. What's the big deal with them?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, for starters black holes tend to be associated with corrupted warp points. They're like unsweepable minefields, and if they happen to cripple your engines you can still lose ships to the hole. But even if the warp points are normal, you just can't station a fleet in a black hole system for an extended period; eventually they run out of supplies and die. You can't put in sentry satellites or minefields either, they get sucked in too. And if your fleet is low on supplies, be very careful before sending them through. Remember also that combat consumes supplies, so fighting inside a black hole system could doom you even if you win the battle resoundingly.

Basically, it's a major pain to _hold_ a black hole system. They're natural no-man's lands.

Note that I haven't actually had much _experience_ with the strategic implications of these things; I've mostly played against the AI so far. But it all seems to make sense inside my head at the moment. :)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Nebuleas I can understand, good to make resupply stations in or for forcing combat with no shields. (or was that black holes again, the no shields thing?)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Black holes are the no-shield systems, nebulas are merely naturally cloaked (though one of the red nebula types cloaks better than any sensor can overcome, and ships in such a nebula are _invulnerable_. Invest in stellar manipulation. :).

(I came across a mod that added a wide variety of new nebulas with all sorts of effects borrowed from the storms, but the name is slipping my mind.)

Oh, and the usual disclaimer applies; different people have different playing styles and enjoy different sorts of maps. I wouldn't want to play _every_ game in an Ancient quadrant, that would get tedious. :)

[Rollo]

Yeah, let's give it a try on a small ancient map with 4 or 5 players and no AI. If you don't mind, I could gamemaster that. I don't want to take away your idea, but since we are moving away from it anyway it will be in addition to that, not replacing it.
I don't actually care who gamemasters it, but I have not done it yet, so I could learn it.

About Black Holes: In one of my games with the demo I had my one of my explorers getting sucked into them, because it ran out of fuel. It already had solar collectors on, but had to travel through a couple of nebulae (sorry, no fuel here http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon12.gif). Already low on fuel they had high hopes of finding a sun at the other end of an unexplored warp point only to find a black hole... Well, the good thing about those is that you don't have to pay maintenance for stranded scouts http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon12.gif. In order to reach the other end of this nebulae/black hole cluster I had to develop better solar collectors, wait a few turns just outside the first nebula to refuel and then make the run (the Kessel run?). But it was worth it: On the other side, I found a really nice system with at least one breathable planet (cannot recall exactly). While the scout waited in the system to refuel and watch the system, I had to put together an actual colonization fleet (Colonizer, 2 Refuel ships with solar collectors, warships (just to make sure http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon12.gif)). That really gave a "Battlestar Galactica" feeling, if you know what I mean.
This little tale might illustrate best, what I mean with the fun of exploring and planning task forces. Playing in ancient maps gives you some other problems to deal with. Some might argue that playing with ancient maps in PBW can be a drag (in the boring sense), but I say we try it anyway and find out ourselves...

Just my 0.02
Rollo

[Rollo]

Whoops, I didn't see BeeDee had already replied. I was offline typing my stuff. Anyway, it's never bad to have a second opinion...

[Shoujo]

Ship names - Ok I'll add YR after all my ship names from now on.

Time zones- I'm the Japanese player http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon9.gif Sorry for slowing you all down folks. If this game Lasts a month or so I'll be back in the states and ready to crank out turns as fast as the rest of you.

Ancient Galaxy - Eeep no ancient map please. I'm in three normal games that might as well be ancient galaxies from the sheer number of nebulae and black holes I've run into. From my experience they slow the game down a lot without adding much. I frequently end up just looking at a very short empire log, then hitting end turn because nothing happens http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon9.gif Maybe I'm just a tad impatient...

[dogscoff]

QUOTE:
I guess I should create my own (at least a different flag).
/QUOTE

You are aware that there is already a Space Viking shipset in build aren't you? That would be too much of a coincidence...

http://www.sandman43.fsnet.co.uk/viking.htm (http://)


------------------
"Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?"
"I think so Brain but, if you replace the P with an O, my name would be Oinky, wouldn't it?"

[Rollo]

No, I didn't know about it. That's great! I hope I can use it, when it's finished http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif.

Actually I've been using the name Space Vikings for a long time in these kind of games (i.e SE3, Galaxy PBM). Believe or not, it is pure coincidence. I come from an area in northern Germany where the Vikings had settlements (e.g. Haithabu) and also my real name sounds pretty "vikingish". Just for your information, Rollo was a Viking King (that sounds odd http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/confused.gif ) in the Normandy.

Okay, enough history for now... http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon12.gif
Until the shipset is finished and I get permission to use it, I think I will do my own flag anyway.

Rollo

[edit]
P.S.: Maybe when the set is finshed and someone wants to create an AI for it (don't look at me), I can help a little bit with the speech files. I'll have to keep an eye on that.

[This message has been edited by Rollo (edited 26 July 2001).]

[dogscoff]

Wierd coincidence... I've was drawing Space Viking comics at school. ooOOOOoooOOOOooh!!

ANyway, permission to use it is yours as soon as it's working. I'd also love some help with the AI files, although I'm more worried about the "clever" stuff (i design files, anger files) than the spech, which I already have some ideas for.

Anyway, we're getting off topic. Can we continue this conversation on the proper thread? I'll bump it to the top of the forum for you...

------------------
"Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?"
"I think so Brain but, if you replace the P with an O, my name would be Oinky, wouldn't it?"

[Rollo]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Shoujo:
Ship names - Ok I'll add YR after all my ship names from now on.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Okay, good. In all my PBW games I have somebody using the same shipset as me. I guess I should create my own (at least a different flag).
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Shoujo:
Time zones- I'm the Japanese player http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon9.gif Sorry for slowing you all down folks. If this game Lasts a month or so I'll be back in the states and ready to crank out turns as fast as the rest of you.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don't worry, I don't think you slowing things down at all (not more than I do, anyway http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon12.gif). I think this game is progressing quite good. Can't really judge, because this one of my first, but compared to my other games this is really fast.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Shoujo:
Ancient Galaxy - Eeep no ancient map please. I'm in three normal games that might as well be ancient galaxies from the sheer number of nebulae and black holes I've run into. From my experience they slow the game down a lot without adding much. I frequently end up just looking at a very short empire log, then hitting end turn because nothing happens http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon9.gif Maybe I'm just a tad impatient...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Yeah, I understand what you mean. I still like the "feel" of ancient galaxies, though. I guess it's not everybodys cup of tea.

Rollo

[Dragonlord]

Yep, we are indeed getting off topic, so let me try to wrench this thread back to Spiralus. I have moved the discussion about possible new games to:
http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/Forum23/HTML/003294.html

OK, we are now in turn 8 of Spiralus, and things are developing much faster than I had anticipated. Amazing how much can happen in 8 turns. Initially we didn't have much to talk about as we all build colonisers and scout ships, but now:

The Dragon Hegemony has already made contact with 3 races. The Amon'krie immediately turned hostile and have already destroyed two of my colonisers. Research has immediately shifted to defensive technology, and I should have mines on the next turn.
We have also encountered ships led by "Spock" and by "The General". That corner of the galaxy seems quite cramped, so it will be interesting to see how they wish to handle diplomatic relations. If all goes well I'll have treaties with them soon.
I really miss having the Propulsion Expert trait, my colonisers are sooo slow.
Then again they don't loose time going through wormholes into new territory.
Did I mention yet that I love being an Ancient Race? :-)

How is everybody else doing?

[BeeDee10]

I've hit a nice sweet spot in setting up my shipyard capabilities; I can pump out useful frigate designs in a single turn. I may experiment more extensively with smaller ship designs this time around. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Phoenix-D]

Two contacts myself.. I seem to be boxed in even MORE this time.

I'm really glad I'm not playing the Certadsh. They'd go nuts at the dealing I'm going to have to do.

Phoenix-D

[Rollo]

I have one contact so far with an AI I have never been up against before. They declared war on me already.
Hmm, I guess they don't like the "Viking way of life" http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon12.gif.

This game is fun... http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon10.gif

Rollo

[Dragonlord]

Ouch. the two contacts that Phoenix mentioned are the same two races that I discovered. Something seems to have gone wrong with the equal distribution of starting positions. We now have 4 of the 7 human races boxed into a sector that is altogether maybe 15% of the galaxy.
If this turns to war, (and two races are close to war already) then it could be that the other three humans have free reign over the rest of the galaxy (after killing off the AI). It remains to be seen whether one or more (of the 4 up north) human races will come out of our corner with sufficient strength to take on the other three races who will have quietly grown big.

My own position: I have soom room to expand eastwards, but two of the other northern races have to go through me or the Scrons to reach the rest of the galaxy...they're boxed into a corner. And I expect to find another race to my east soon.

Will keep y'all posted on developments.

[Dragonlord]

Hmm, posting seems to be dropping off.
Doesn't anybody have anything to report?

Come on, share your adventures and insights with the world http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Phoenix-D]

The shooting hasn't started yet, and their isn't much I can say without giving away my plans http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Phoenix-D

[Rollo]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dragonlord:
Hmm, posting seems to be dropping off.
Doesn't anybody have anything to report?

Come on, share your adventures and insights with the world http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry, it's been kind of a busy day. I'll do my turn now and then post some news.

Rollo

[Rollo]

One of my blockading fleets just got smashed by my AI enemy. Man, they pour out one light cruiser after another. What does computer bonus mean again http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif? Do they cheat or what?

If they keep doing this I'll have to retreat to my own territory and there will be no more plunder for my Vikings http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon9.gif.

Better send out some more explorers to find some more friendly types (if there are any). Colonized a ruin with high hopes and what did I find? Massive shield thingies. Too bad no colo tech, but I think it's better that way. If somebody finds another colo tech early in the game, it might unbalance it.

Rollo

PS: Dragonlord, would you mind turning the statistics on the PBW off? Since we play with "allied score" most of the information there is classified. I don't mind, if you leave score and even tech levels on, but the rest should IMHO be off.

[Spock]

Yes there is war in the NW quadrant. Not a declared war, but war none the less.

When the Scron first encountered the Bakulon, we would have gladly extended an olive branch. Cooperation and trade is much more beneficial to all concerned.

However, the Bakulon's greeting, without warning or a declaration of war, was the destruction of two new but defenseless colonies.

The Scron now look to eradicate such vermin from the galaxy.

[BeeDee10]

I'd love to post some news too, but there's little I can say without giving away information that could potentially put my allies and/or enemies at risk. I'll post summaries of previous events once they are no longer of any use. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Dragonlord]

I'm having a great old time roleplaying a Merchant race...I took this ability initially for the reduced maintenance, but figured I'd go with it and trade with everybody. So far quite succesfully. Now I know I should have taken "Natural Merchant" as well :-)

Meanwhile I keep a nervous eye out in all directions. Am building a fleet to deal with the Amon'krie, and hope my customer (allies) don't get alarmed by the rising number of ships they can see in my stats. I try to orchestrate my trades (star charts, resources, anything!) in such a way as to avoid an all out war in the northern section of the galaxy.

[Spock]

Dragon is trying to be Switerland during WWII. And so far, doing a good job at it.

[Dragonlord]

Oh yeah, I love this roleplaying. I'm trying to meet up with the happy-happy joybots of the Irrh-nur, cause I know they're good at it too.
I like having the merchant backstory. For instance, this month (turn)I told one customer that he had been selected "customer of the month" and gave him some free star charts, just for the hell of it http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Phoenix-D]

I'm not sure the Irh-Nrr are so happy-happy anymore http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif And from my guess, they're probably in first place.

I wonder if they met the Rage yet..

Phoenix-D

[BeeDee10]

We have just encountered an independant machine ecology that goes by that designation.

We have broadcast Irha-Nrr system recognition handshake codes and are awaiting a response code to determine whether these machines are of common ancestry to the Irha-Nrr. We will not have a response for two months. If they are following common protocols, however, we should recieve a handshake code from them next month already.

We will keep our protected species appraised of these developments.

(OOC: time to kick my productive capacity up a notch, I think. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Dragonlord]

As I meet more races, I seem to be in an excellent position for all this trading I intend to do.

Come on people, post some info!
How is the war in the north going?
From what I see it's very amusing...the Bakulon vs. the Scron, there is but one contested system between their respective home systems, and each player has a fleet of about 10 frigates stationed on the wormholes that lead back to their home system. Looks like a cheap western where they stare each other down and everybody is waiting for the shooting to start.
I only have a small moon colonised in that system and am sort of observing, almost like a boxing referee in between the boxers in their corners http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Phoenix-D]

You mean you just bargined with me, made me pay passage to send my colonizers into a war zone? Sneaky little.. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif Good thing I arm my tankers.

Any bets on them being the spark?

Phoenix-D

[BeeDee10]

Grr. I'm feeling pretty isolated down in my corner of the quadrant, buried behind empty systems. How am I supposed to police the universe when I barely even communicate with it, and have insufficient productive capacity to mount a mighty fleet? http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

I'm working on it, though... hope I can catch up to everyone else quickly enough to play a significant role again.

[Dragonlord]

Beedee, I have some scouts on their way who are tring to locate you.

Phoenix, the Tyrik system (i think that was the name) is in a cold war state, but I did warn you! when we set up the trade many turns ago I mentioned there would be frigates from the Bakulon and Scron in that system, and that you better be on friendly terms with them.

If your new colonies can survive for one turn it will be better cause you can then have mines launched above them. And you have been trading with the Scron and Bakulov for so long I doubt they'll go to war with you over some colonies, they probably need the resource income to fund their cold war.

That's another reason why I have T&R treaties with most races, by now these are in the 15-16% range, and I produce more resources and research than any other race, to continously impress on everyone how important I am to their economies, which will hopefully dissuade people from turning on me. As you can see from the tech I offer for sale, it is all benign stuff I research, like Mineral Mining II and Cargo II (need those warehouses to store all the profits from trading !)

But I went a bit overboard, with my reduced maintenance (Merchant ability) and 20% extra to my trading skill, the resources are coming in so fast I can hardly keep up with warehouses, even with all planets constructing something. And of course, seeing money going down the drain due to lack of storage is the ultimate sin for my race http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

I probably overcompensated for my mistake in the Letharg PBW game, where I relied so much on trade that I went nearly bankrupt when three players turned on me at once http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon9.gif

(I still won that game though, so don't be getting any ideas :-)

[Phoenix-D]

Well, at the moment our sector has Dragon waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay out in front, me in distant 7th, and the other two races back behind me in the overall standings.

How many of the races are human and how many are AI, anyway?

Phoenix-D

[BeeDee10]

Last I checked I was in _10th_ score-wise. I think that part of the blame lies in how I was trying to save the atmosphered planets for other species to colonize, despite only have two systems with planets readily available. That policy has undergone revision now. There won't be _any_ organic species left alive if I don't get on the ball soon. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Dragonlord]

Phoenix, there are 7 human races and 6 or 7 AI races.

[Dragonlord]

Beedee,

I have finally discovered where your race lives and perhaps we can come to your rescue. We're sure to have some nice technology that you could use...for a small price http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Dragonlord]

Rollo, King of the Space Vikings, seems to have disappeared today. He was holding up all the games I was in, and finally I decided to execute the turns manually since I knew that by that time it was 2 AM where he lives, and he was unlikely to meet the upload deadline.

[Rollo]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dragonlord:
Rollo, King of the Space Vikings, seems to have disappeared today. He was holding up all the games I was in, and finally I decided to execute the turns manually since I knew that by that time it was 2 AM where he lives, and he was unlikely to meet the upload deadline.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That is too bad, because I was just about to send my turns in http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon9.gif.

I think if we play 24hrs per turn, you should give 24 hrs to meet the deadline.

[Dragonlord]

Yes, I agree we should stick to the deadline.
Rollo and I sent some emails back and forth and it is straightened out.

From now on, I will use the "probation" system for games that I host. This means that if you are late with your turn I will simply wait for the deadline, and the AI will play for you for one turn. Then, on the next turn, if you are *again* the Last person to upload and some hours have passed, I will execute the turn manually. In the interest of moving things along for the rest of the players. If you miss your turn 3 or 4 times in a row and don't respond to my emails, I will "dead" your empire, i.e. turn it over to the AI.
Sounds fair to everybody ?

[Shoujo]

Does late mean 24 hours have past since you Last turned in your turn, or X hours have passed since everyone but you turned in their turn?

I hope it's the first and not second because I tend to occasionally receive a nag while I'm playing my turn or just as I'm about to upload. Short of skipping sleep (big no no) I can't upload any earlier because I have to (and want to http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon12.gif ) eat breakfast at 6:00...

[Phoenix-D]

24 hours means 24 hours since the Last turn ran.

Phoenix-D

[Dragonlord]

Maybe I should clarify. If you miss one turn, for whatever reason, that's fine. The AI will handle that turn. But if, after that auto-execution due to time-out, everybody else has sent in their turn and you are *again* the Last person we are waiting for, I will not wait many hours till the expiration time. I'll probably wait till about 10 PM EST (convenient time for me) and execute manually. I will also email the Last player before I do this.

I suggest this because I often see 6 people uploading within 3 hours after they get their turn, then waiting up to 21 hours for the Last person. We'll wait that long once, but not two days in a row. (Unless you notified me beforehand that you would be unable to play, when you'll be back, and everybody agrees to wait that long).

BTW I intend to use the same policy on the "Isobreak" and "Diplowar" games, so I want to make sure you all understand and agree with this approach.

[Phoenix-D]

Dragon, I've got a problem. Switched the cable internet and guess what- it doesn't work right now. I'm doing this from a library computer, which doesn't have SE4. I'll try uploading my turn, but I'd apprecite disabling the auto-turn change for a few days.

Phoenix-D

[Dragonlord]

Phoenix,

You're lucky I saw this just in time, 30 minutes before the turn expiration ! Perhaps email would have been a more reliable route.
I have postponed the turn for a few hours while I email you. Are you suggesting we postpone the game for a number of days until you get your Internet back? I'm not sure everyone will want to wait that long...

[Phoenix-D]

Uh, Dragon, I have no email at the moment http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif Thanks though.

anyway- we've got a tech comming tommarow. If HE can't fix it, I'll just put my DSL modem back in and use it. The annoying part is that I have the turn, I just can't do anything with it.. I'll try something else, maybe, but it probably still won't get in ntil tommarow.

Sorry.

EDIT: OK, it's in. Still no idea on when my machine will have access, and I can't exactly use this one all the time, soo.. see above.

Phoenix-D

[This message has been edited by Phoenix-D (edited 09 August 2001).]

[Phoenix-D]

OK, it's running..

sorta. Would you belive hooking the modem, via ethernet, to another computer helped? (it's connected to my server via USB)

Phoenix-D

[Phoenix-D]

lol.. my sattilite layer crews must be scared witless by now. Every single one build has ran into a minefield and blown itself to bits..

Phoenix-D

[Dragonlord]

OK, it has been a long time since our Last status update. How is everyone doing?

My own race, the Dragons, is growing exponentially, trying to maintain peace in the quadrant while I deal with the foul Amonkrie. We think we have the military might to pacify the entire norther sector if need be, so I'm curious to hear the view of the northern races on this situation. How will they intend to proceed..?

On one of our many other fronts, we are cooperating with the Irra-Nrr in their efforts to neutralise the threat of the Rage and of any other hostile species in the region.

Our merchanting efforts have been very succesful, and we just finished research on Cargo III to store the vast amounts of minerals we are generating.

[BeeDee10]

The Irha-Nrr are descending as far into raving paranoia as they are capable of. Our only neighbours are the Yvelom and the Dragons, the two biggest empires in the game, and the Rage Collective, an insane perVersion of everything we hold dear. I have no idea whether the Dragons or the Yvelom are the lesser of two evils, or both, or neither, and the Dragons are refusing to give me comm channels to the "outside world" so that I could have some way of finding out for myself.

The only thing that's stopping me from just blowing _everyone_ up right now and sorting out the mess afterward is the fact that I lack the military power to do it. At the moment all I can do is focus on the Rage and hope to figure things out in time to make wise decisions if and when the balloon goes up. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Phoenix-D]

I'm just huddling in my little corner, trying to figure out a way to get the @%^ Clan back in a way the Dragons won't interfere with http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Phoenix-D

[Rollo]

A few turns ago the Space Vikings made contact with another race. Being the friendly guy that I am, I proposed a treaty of trade and research right away and wrote some nice role playing text: "Greetings from the Space Vikings... (blahblahblah)". Two turns later I got the answer:"Now is not the time for alliances." I thought that was pretty rude. At least that player could have written some more personal text. So I checked out who it was, only to find out it was one of the AI races... (Duh !) http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon12.gif.
Note to myself:"The AI doesn't really care what you write in Messages..."

Rollo

[Phoenix-D]

Well, on the bad side, Dragon just broke a treaty worth 40k credits per turn, which put me in dept 10k per turn.

The good news (?) is he blew away my fleet at the same time, so I'm not running negative.

Did I mention my entire fleet was being retrofitted at the time?

Phoenix-D

[Phoenix-D]

OK, I am SERIOUSLY embarrased.

Despite having a much, much larger tech base, the Dragons didn't have phased shields when they attacked. I did, and we were both uisng PPB Vs. If I hadn't refitted my entire fleet at the same time, I would have tore him to bits!

Phoenix-D

[Dragonlord]

Yes I was surprised I survived that battle so well ! My ships in that fleet were outdated of course, they had been sitting in that system for 6 months while I tried to sort out the diplomacy. I assume I had the luck that I attacked just as he was refitting his shields !

Meanwhile, hell is breaking loose. 4 AI races suddenly decided to declare war on me, for a moment I though I went MEE but I don't think so because 2 other AI's are still trading with me. Perhaps some treachary from a human whom I gave the AI comm channels in good faith and then persuaded them to attack me?

Hmm, I must investigate...will keep you all posted.

[BeeDee10]

If so, the human player isn't _me_. I still barely have any contact at all with the outside world at this point, let alone influence.

[Dragonlord]

Well, all hell is breaking loose now in Spiralus. But most players are intimately involved in this (except Rollo I think) so I'm not sure how much info I should post here. If there's anybody out there who is not in tihs game and would like to know how it is going, let me know.

[Gorgo]

Post it man!

[Rollo]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dragonlord:
Well, all hell is breaking loose now in Spiralus. But most players are intimately involved in this (except Rollo I think)... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have to admit I don't have a clue what's going on at all http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon12.gif. So far the only human player I have encountered is Dragonlord. Because of some twists in the map I encountered the Earth Alliance in the early game no matter in which direction I was exploring. Still having lots of fun, though.

Rollo

[Dragonlord]

OK, in a nutshell what happened:

My race is by far the strongest in this game because I had the luck of a central starting position which allowed me to trade with everybody and block players from establishing contact with each other. I've played as a peaceful merchant race from the beginning.

However, now there is not much for me to do anymore. I have all the tech I wanted, got some 80 planets, 200 ships, all built up and upgraded to the max. So I started looking at the victory conditions (400% of 2nd place player) and figured that if I could take out the fleets of No2. I would drop his score enough to win.

Problem was, I had to declare war to do this, which wasn't in the nature of my character. (this was before I became enlightened about roleplaying). I let my own human desires drive the action of my character and declared war with a pretty thin in-game justification. The player I went to war with was very pissed, believe me. I still feel guilty about that.

Another race, which I had been carefully grooming to help me in this war, decided that my sudden war was so out of sync with my peaceful char that he suddenly switched sides and started helping my intended victim.
He even convinced a small race which was under my protection to surrender to him, and now suddenly has a presence on my border.

In the east of my empire I am peacefully working with the Space Vikings to eradicate a rather strong AI race, though this will take time.
Meanwhile everybody's score is suddenly shooting up, while mine remains fairly constant (no more room to expand), so short of galactic domination I see no way to ensure victory for my Dragons.

And being a huge central empire with 2 and potentially 4 pretty large human empires attacking you from all sides is tough !

(edit: typos)

[This message has been edited by Dragonlord (edited 18 August 2001).]

[Rollo]

The Space Vikings are glad to announce that the heinous regime of the Earth Allinace has finally been ended. The war criminal President Sheridan has been captured and will be held responsible for the atrocities commited under his rule. He has not only been killing millions of Vikings, but of his own people as well. A few months ago we liberated one of their small mining moons and the workers there very really happy about that. In the following month that outpost was completely destroyed by EA forces causing the death of 100M of their own people!
Luckily we have encountered the Irha-Nrr in this month also. I have contacted them and offered to turn Sheridan over to them. I would imagine that they have developed methods to deal with genocidal war criminals http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon12.gif.

Rollo

[BeeDee10]

Heh. Unfortunately, the Irha-Nrr try not to play the "blame game," especially not with individual members of a species. They simply try to ensure that violent species never have access to dangerous toys ever again.

We have a small colony of Terrans which is being maintained as a "wildlife preserve" to ensure that the species doesn't go extinct. If you hand Sheridan over to us, we will place him in this colony. Even if he rises to a position of local leadership among the populace, all spacecraft and advanced facilities are under Irha-Nrr control and therefore off-limits to Terrans except as passengers.

He will never be able to command spacegoing forces again. Perhaps this will be seen by your people as suitable "punishment" for an expansionistic tyrant?

Meanwhile, Elder Avatar's forces have just finished annihilating one of the Yvelom's undefended homeworlds far behind the border, totally ignoring the massive Yvelom warfleet nearby. So much for their promise to target military equipment only. I'm going to have to set aside a Dragon reserve at some point, I think... http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Dragonlord]

Ah yes. As for the destruction of that homeworld: using the Yvelon's own logic, (which they applied to the Terrans), that was a military target. Homeworlds have a high construction rate and can produce dangerous ships fast. We intend to destroy another one, then turn our attention to the main Yvelon fleet. After that, our objective will have been achieved and we can sue for peace, helping the Yvelon to build up the remains of their economy. (hoping that their defeat on the military level has dissuaded them from any future militaristic dreams).
What won't help their economy though is the planets they destroyed (abandonded) all on their own http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon9.gif

[Shoujo]

Can't blame you for doing what I would've done in your place http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon12.gif This of course doesn't mean Shepherd Ikul is happy.

The abandoned planets aren't a serious concern. They were all small and tiny planets of little economic value whose only purpose was to construct ships.

[Rollo]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BeeDee10:
We have a small colony of Terrans which is being maintained as a "wildlife preserve" to ensure that the species doesn't go extinct. If you hand Sheridan over to us, we will place him in this colony. Even if he rises to a position of local leadership among the populace, all spacecraft and advanced facilities are under Irha-Nrr control and therefore off-limits to Terrans except as passengers.

He will never be able to command spacegoing forces again. Perhaps this will be seen by your people as suitable "punishment" for an expansionistic tyrant?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmm yes, sounds pretty good. I mean, if we just wanted him executed or so we could have done it ourselves http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon12.gif. I guess there is no galactic tribunal or some such, or is there?

Rollo

[Rollo]

Hehehe, Dragonlords eastern front is crumbling into dust. I just tore one of his fleets apart and now have two fleets in the Dragons soft underbelly. Sorry, this may come a little late to some of you.

Hey, Dragonlord, what have your captains been drinking? They can't even hit the ground http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon12.gif.

I apologize for boasting too much, but you guys should have seen the battle in the Wanduk system. Ohoh, better be quiet now and prepare for the Dragon counterattack...

Rollo

[BeeDee10]

Perhaps one day we _can_ see the battle for ourselves. I save all the turns that get emailed to me until after the game ends, so we could swap passwords afterward and view key points in each others' histories to see how things actually happened in the past. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Of course, that assumes that none of you is reusing their passwords in other games. If you are, though, shame on you for such an insecure practice. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Dragonlord]

Yep, Rollo is doing damage. My entire military was focused on the Yvelon and Irra-Nrr, plus a north fleet in case the Scron went hostile. I never expected a betrayal from the Space Vikings so my east was barely defended. The fleet he killed consisted of a half dozen green untrained warships, while (judging by the hit/miss ratio) his fleet was veteran or maybe even legendary.
He has also shown me the value of the extra 30% defense you get from putting all armor types on your ships...
So in order to destroy his fleets I need overwhelming numbers...which I have, just not in the right place. What's worse, he's capturing essential planets rather than destroying them, hurting my economy while he boosts his own. My weapon platforms were useless and I am now convinced that the *only* viable planet defense is...ships. Lots and lots of ships.

Will keep you posted, as I scramble to put up defense and redirect my fleets.

[Shoujo]

What makes you think any of us would reuse passords? *bats eyelashes*

[Rollo]

Frontline news (the Viking view) Last month 2408.1 (didn't have a look at the new turn yet):

Last month another brave battle was fought be Viking forces in the Aldan system. On Aldan III a fleet with a humanitarian mission to evacuate all Dragon civilists was attacked by Dragon forces. The Viking fleet was hopelessly outnumbered and outgunned. It consisted only of two Jarlsund LC and three Halden DS, while the Dragons attacked with a battleship and a battlecruiser backed up by five LC. We feared the Dragons would try to wipe out their own population, so while one LC kept the Dragons busy the other LC covered the retreat of the civilians with help of the destroyers. The Jarlsund fought bravely and was skillfully dodging most shots. Once the unarmed vessels were safe it was joined by the other LC and the destroyers to make sure the Dragons would do no more harm. At the end of the battle all Dragon ships were severely damaged and two destroyed, while all Viking ships remained unscratched and the civilians were safe. At the end of the month the entire Aldan system was liberated from Dragon oppression and the population jubilantly joined the Vikings. They will be welcome members of our clans for their superior trading skills, because we have a great demand for merchants and accountants considering our recent growth.

In the Wanduk system the Viking fleet was defeated by superior Dragon forces. We fear the worst for the people (Vikings and Dragons) in the Wanduk system.

We are truly shocked that the Dragons don't even stop at murdering their own people in their quest for galactic dominance. We have been friends the most time and would have never imagined they were even capable of such atrocities. This tells us that our intervention into Dragon space is a just cause of liberating helpless and oppressed civilians from an evil regime.
Even in the face of the genocide committed by the Dragons we will continue to fight and try to keep collatoral(sp?) damage and civilian losses at a minimum. We will try to take in as many Dragon refugees as possible and ask all other galactic powers to do the same should they seek asylum with you.

We have demanded the surrender of the Dragons to prevent more bloodshed. Hopefully Elder Avatar will come to his senses again or there will be billions of more deaths.

We mourn for the dead and hope they will be safely guided to Valhalla by the Valkyrja,
King Rollo of the Space Vikings

[BeeDee10]

Rearguard news, the Irha-Nrr view:

"Since the destruction of our entire military and of the shipyards and research worlds in Tesshana, the Dragons have withdrawn from our space. They are apparently satisfied that we no longer pose a threat, and indeed it will be a matter of many months before we have recovered sufficiently to defend our core systems and the Terran reserve planet located there.

In the meantime, as anticipated, the quadrant has gone mad as the tensions cultivated by the Dragons over the years all find catharsis. Every major empire has declared war upon the Dragons, who although quite capable of subduing any one opponent are apparently suffering significant casulaties due to the many fronts they are forced to divide their forces among. They have just finished annihilting a significant portion of the Scron's military forces, along with a number of Scron worlds, and are now apparently redeploying away from the Scron front much as they did from our territory after neutralizing our own forces. I believe that the attacks launched by the Space Vikings have been responsible for saving all of the rest of us from total extermination at the Dragons' hands, and I find it ironic that agression has been responsible for saving these species. At least in the short term.
It is strangely fascinating to witness the actual collapse of this cycle of civilization, fully validating the projection our models of long-term biological evolution produced. Now that the Dragons have rendered us completely helpless to intervene and prevent this cycle's collapse, it is almost exhilerating now watching it all end in destruction. I only hope that I will be able to recover samples of some of the other intelligent species out there in the midst of this chaos."

[Dragonlord]

/ooc In response to the message from the Vikings:
/end ooc

After the treacherous betrayal from the Space Vikings, whom had been staunch allies of the Dragons throughout our lifespan in this galaxy, we suffered medium-sized losses.
Apparantly the Vikings had been planning this betrayal for some time, since shortly after their war declaration they captured an undefended large research planet in a forward system we shared with them.
The next month enemy forces moved into other undefended frontier systems, targetting mineral planets and resupply stations. Their agression cost the lives of millions of innocent Dragon civilians. Meanwhile, Dragon fleets are scrambling to reach our east frontier. We were too late to save our population in Aldan, but have beaten back the enemy in Walduk and reclaimed this system. Another small fleet, done with the removal of the Amonkrie and the Rage, has entered some outlying Viking systems and destroyed some small colonies there. It will now move on to more strategic targets.

It is true that we were forced to destroy colonies we once held in Wanduk. However we have *at no point* fired on our own population. The planets in question were all oxygen planets with Space Viking population on them, colonists we had received from the Vikings back when we were still at peace with them. These traitors received the death they deserve, for not fighting to defend the infrastructure they built with Dragon resources.

Another small fleet we sent into Aldan was targetted on Viking transport vessels, not on our planets there. To our dismay our technically superior ships found it nearly impossible to hit the enemy ships, while the enemy occasionally scored a hit. These Dragon ships died the horrible death of "a thousand fleebites". Fortunately our ship captains are now gaining the experience necessary to offset the defensive shielding (stealth and such)and the racial defense bonus that the Vikings enjoy. Our total fleet forces is also nearly double that of the Vikings, who also have to station at least some ships on their frontier with the Praetorians. We remain confident that we will avenge our innocent colonists. We will bathe the Vikings in righteous fire, to the point where they will return our colonies to us and scrap their ships. As the Irra-Nrr would say, none of these races can be trusted with military toys, and we follow the same goals as the Irra-Nrr (albeit for different reasons): remove all military capbilities of our neighbours, to protect their civilians from the self-destructive course their government set them on. After that we will help any race willing, to rebuild their economy and return to a prosperous lifestyle of peace and prosperity.

Elder Avatar

[Rollo]

/ooc

"Apparantly the Vikings had been planning this betrayal for some time..."

I really wish I had more time to plan this a little more. My attack was actually pretty rushed, because I feared everybody would call it quits, before I got the chance to smash a few things. So I just pulled everything together real quick and charged. My initial fleet was well trained, but outdated. Heck, some of them were still using DUCs and armor. On the other hand my newly build ships, don't perform nearly as well as my veterans. Note: A DUC at the hand of an expert is ten times worth a PPB in the hand of a rookie (but I guess you all know this already http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon12.gif)

Anyway, the wrath of the Dragons is taking its toll. I reckon there will be a major battle next month that could end my objectives of pesting the Dragons a little more http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon12.gif. After that I'll pull all my ships together to make a Last stand and we'll all go to Valhalla.

Rollo

[Rollo]

Dragonlord has just destroyed one of my fleets that attempted to strike into his mainland just short before reaching its target. If everybody agrees, it is okay for me to end this game now. If not, I still have another fleet http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon12.gif...

Anyway, it's been a pleasure, even though I didn't interact with most of you until late in the game. This being one of my first PBW games I sure learned a lot.

Rollo
[edit]typos

[This message has been edited by Rollo (edited 01 September 2001).]

[Dragonlord]

Aye, I enjoyed the bit of spice Rollo added to the end fase, once again I was eager to see the next turn come in and see If I had hunted down his fleet yet or if he would do more damage. He came dangerously close to my core mineral planet (80k production)! I even started closing warp points to force any of his stray ships to go through my kill zone if he really wanted to strike at my core planets.

It's been a good game and I for one learned a lot. I too am now ready to call it quits, and free up some time for my next game: Diplowar II.


[This message has been edited by Dragonlord (edited 02 September 2001).]