Which Mod Nations are Ready for Prime Time?

[Velusion]

As a way to make things more interesting I'm thinking of including some mod nations in the next MP game I host. I'm looking for a list of middle era mod nations that have been tested more than once, that are considered balanced.

Requirements:

1) The nation must be unique and not derivative of an existing dominions3 nation.
2) The nation must have been tested (played more than once in MP).
3) The nation shouldn't be *completely* derivative of another fantasy world. (I.E. I don't want to exactly play the shire hobbits from middle-earth but I wouldn't mind playing a unique halfling nation.)
4) Must be designed for (or easily adaptable to) the middle age.

I have very limited knowledge of the existing mod nations so I'm looking for suggestions. The cream of the crop!

Thanks!

[llamabeast]

The cream of the crop to my mind are (and there is some bias in including my own here but I'm very proud of it):

Skaven by Sombre
Arga Dis by Sombre
Tomb Kings by me

The Skaven are derivative of the Warhammer nation, but it is _so_ worth it, they are awesome. My Tomb Kings are inspired by the Warhammer nation of the same name, but are not really close to it at all. Most of the inspiration comes from Egyptian stuff (with a few obviously-Warhammery exceptions). Arga Dis, so far as I know, is completely original.

Also normally late-age but fitting fine in middle age are:
Ulm Reborn by Sombre
Vaettiheim by Sombre

Finally, one I haven't tested closely but looks good is Alugra, by Burnsaber.

These are completely subjective opinions, but these are the ones I think are really awesome and get excited about. As you can tell, I'm a fan of Sombre's mods. I'm not thinking super clearly at the moment though (should be in bed), so apologies if I've forgotten anything obvious.

[Velusion]

llamabeast said:
The cream of the crop to my mind are (and there is some bias in including my own here but I'm very proud of it):

Skaven by Sombre
Arga Dis by Sombre
Tomb Kings by me

The Skaven are derivative of the Warhammer nation, but it is _so_ worth it, they are awesome. My Tomb Kings are inspired by the Warhammer nation of the same name, but are not really close to it at all. Most of the inspiration comes from Egyptian stuff (with a few obviously-Warhammery exceptions). Arga Dis, so far as I know, is completely original.

Also normally late-age but fitting fine in middle age are:
Ulm Reborn by Sombre
Vaettiheim by Sombre

Finally, one I haven't tested closely but looks good is Alugra, by Burnsaber.

These are completely subjective opinions, but these are the ones I think are really awesome and get excited about. As you can tell, I'm a fan of Sombre's mods. I'm not thinking super clearly at the moment though (should be in bed), so apologies if I've forgotten anything obvious.



Here is a good bellwether test to determine if a nation qualifies: If Illwinter were to have included the game in the official release would they have to be worried about being sued?

Ulm Reborn is out because it is derviative of the already existing Ulm.

I'll take a look at these. Keep the suggestions coming!

[DrPraetorious]

Stigia (by Amos) is fairly well balanced. Their national pretender is insane, but you can just disable him. I don't think it's been played in MP yet.

Theran Empire (also by Amos) is slightly weak, and has some features that would need to be disabled. I'd be willing to give it a shot in MP, myself, though.

I want to start a massive MP game after I've finished fiddling with everyone else's mods for mine own poirposes, and ironing out kinks so that they all run at once.

This'll take me (at least!) a few weeks until after the patch is out.

[Velusion]

DrPraetorious said:
Stigia (by Amos) is fairly well balanced. Their national pretender is insane, but you can just disable him. I don't think it's been played in MP yet.

Theran Empire (also by Amos) is slightly weak, and has some features that would need to be disabled. I'd be willing to give it a shot in MP, myself, though.

I want to start a massive MP game after I've finished fiddling with everyone else's mods for mine own poirposes, and ironing out kinks so that they all run at once.

This'll take me (at least!) a few weeks until after the patch is out.



My general thought is similar... start to add a few of the best unique modded nations to all future regular games.

[DrPraetorious]

One issue is that CBM is starting to shape up to the point that I'd consider using it.

Forks drive QM completely nuts, but I might include the best half a dozen changes made by CBM in such a mod.

[Xox]

I would say Ulm reborn is not at all derivitive of Ulm from a play style point of view. Just from a historical flavor point of view. It quite unique and a very good mod. Have you checked it out at all?

[llamabeast]

Velusion: Illwinter would have been sued for Skaven. But that doesn't mean they don't fit in well with Dominions games, so I'm not sure why that's a big deal. Sombre has been extremely creative in adapting them for Dominions, it's not like they're derivative in the no-effort sense.

[Morkilus]

Ulm Reborn is completely unlike the traditional Ulm in terms of how the gameplay feels. It's mainly the storyline (I think) that requires it to be Ulm. It's very cool in my opinion, and won the only all-mod game I've played. Sylvania is very high-fantasy Elvish, and might still be overpowered http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Sombre]

I don't think any of my MA nations meet your criteria.

I think Alugra by Burnsaber is well worth a go in MA.

[Velusion]

Sombre said:
I don't think any of my MA nations meet your criteria.

I think Alugra by Burnsaber is well worth a go in MA.



What about your Agra Dis?

Anyone played Alugra in MP before?

As far as why I'm not looking for nations derived from other materials... I suppose it's just a personal preference. I like truly unique things. It's the same reason I don't read fan fiction or care for fan drawn art. I'm sure the modded nations are well done - but they don't really hold that much appeal to me.

I'd be willing to host an MP test game of truly *unique* modded nations...

[Sombre]

Arga Dis is arguably derivative of 300/Arcoscephale.

[DrPraetorious]

Arga Dis is *greek*. It has very little resemblance (other than in sensibility) to 300.

Assuming that Velusion and I share similar standards - a new, German-themed nation named, say, Teutanion, would not be derivative of Ulm.

"Ulm Reborn" is derivative of Ulm http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Sombre]

Depraved inbred Augurs, red and gold / blood and bronze colour theme, special hoplite shields and shield bashing.

There's a fair bit of 300 in there.

[Cor2]

How bout the MA holburgs? Underpowered true, but not derivitive and well play tested.

[llamabeast]

I must admit I really don't get this derivative business. I mean, by that measure you shouldn't play R'lyeh (Lovecraft derivative). Or stretching it a bit further you shouldn't play anyone (Arco is just greeks). I mean, Ulm Reborn probably adds as much to the concept of Ulm as Arco does to Greeks.

[Velusion]

Sombre said:
Depraved inbred Augurs, red and gold / blood and bronze colour theme, special hoplite shields and shield bashing.

There's a fair bit of 300 in there.



Well 300 is really just idealized spartan history. Giving your mod the theme of old sparta drenched in blood is pretty cool. I actually didn't think of 300 when I was playing with the mod - I thought you just took the militaristic spartan history to it's logical conclusion (blood magic).

And I agree with DrP... re-imagining ancient historical cultures/nations with magic fantastical themes can still produce very original mods(depending on how it is done) - but I would rather not play a "version" (however cool) of an already existing dom3 nation.

The Tombkings mod was very well done as well. Since it is quite different than the fantasy world is it derived from have you (llama) ever thought of completely separating it and making it almost wholly original? The way you talked it doesn't sound like it would be that hard...

[Velusion]

Cor2 said:
How bout the MA holburgs? Underpowered true, but not derivitive and well play tested.



Is the fact that they are underpowered pretty much accepted by everyone?

[DrPraetorious]

I think that was the consensus, yes. It was certainly my conclusion.

You can tell they're underpowered just by looking at the magic, actually. Mid-era nations generally have pretty robust (cheap and/or diverse and/or just plain powerful, often two or more of those) magic, and the MA Hoburgs have weak magic and unimpressive (although not terrible) military units.

[Burnsaber]

Velusion said:

Sombre said:
I don't think any of my MA nations meet your criteria.

I think Alugra by Burnsaber is well worth a go in MA.



What about your Agra Dis?

Anyone played Alugra in MP before?

As far as why I'm not looking for nations derived from other materials... I suppose it's just a personal preference. I like truly unique things. It's the same reason I don't read fan fiction or care for fan drawn art. I'm sure the modded nations are well done - but they don't really hold that much appeal to me.

I'd be willing to host an MP test game of truly *unique* modded nations...



Hi all! Althought I'm serving my country, they're nice enough to give vacations from time to time. I'm keeping a eye on my "babies" with great intrest. It will be really intresting to see what will QM do with "burning heroes".

But, about Alugra. I think that it's close to being balanced, but it needs testing. It has quite odd gameplay and perhaps numerical balance analysis might not work. I did play a small duel with Folket, but unfortunatley it had to be ended premately and didn't provide much data. If you want my honest opinion, you shouldn't include it in the game since there is a chance that it's too overpowered and spoil the fun a bit. It would be really awesome if someone would be intrested enough to do a couple of quick games with Alugra and reporting to me (or tweak the mod themselves, I really don't mind). Then I could tweak the mod during my next vacation.

Don't know if you'd personally like it thought, Velusion. It has a lot of references to super-hero mythoes (althought they came after I had done the main concept).

[llamabeast]

The Tombkings mod was very well done as well. Since it is quite different than the fantasy world is it derived from have you (llama) ever thought of completely separating it and making it almost wholly original? The way you talked it doesn't sound like it would be that hard...



Yeah, I did think about that quite a lot while I was working on it. Believe it or not, the main thing that stopped me was that I couldn't think of an alternative name for the place that sounded as cool as Nehekhara! Also the Ushabti and the Tomb Scorpion (Bone Scorpion in mine) are very Games Workshop, and not things I would have come up with myself (nor are they derived from Egyptian mythology so far as I can tell). So it's definitely not just a remake of the Warhammer nation, it has more differences than similarities - but at the same time I really can't claim it's wholly original.

[Velusion]

DrPraetorious said:
I think that was the consensus, yes. It was certainly my conclusion.

You can tell they're underpowered just by looking at the magic, actually. Mid-era nations generally have pretty robust (cheap and/or diverse and/or just plain powerful, often two or more of those) magic, and the MA Hoburgs have weak magic and unimpressive (although not terrible) military units.



Why didn't the creator give them a bit more power then?

[Velusion]

llamabeast said:

The Tombkings mod was very well done as well. Since it is quite different than the fantasy world is it derived from have you (llama) ever thought of completely separating it and making it almost wholly original? The way you talked it doesn't sound like it would be that hard...



Yeah, I did think about that quite a lot while I was working on it. Believe it or not, the main thing that stopped me was that I couldn't think of an alternative name for the place that sounded as cool as Nehekhara! Also the Ushabti and the Tomb Scorpion (Bone Scorpion in mine) are very Games Workshop, and not things I would have come up with myself (nor are they derived from Egyptian mythology so far as I can tell). So it's definitely not just a remake of the Warhammer nation, it has more differences than similarities - but at the same time I really can't claim it's wholly original.



I think you sell yourself short! Good names can be thought of - and being "inspired" by another work is not the same as being derivative. Sounds like it would just take a few tweaks to go from imitating to "inspired by" in the Tomb Kings case. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif