Priori - New MA Game (Draw)

[thejeff]

Well, having been the beneficiary of the last pause, I'd be a complete hypocrite to argue against one this weekend.
So I say, wait for Ylvali.

Nor is it going to be a long delay. Even at 48 hours, if we hosted right now, the next due date would be on sunday anyway. Letting it sit a few more hours to avoid a stale isn't a big deal.

[IndyPendant]

thejeff seconded. Delay is fine and it's not even all that much of one. About to (finally!) upload my turn btw, and I'm heading to the airport soon. I will be sooooo glad to get home. I don't know how others can do business trips on a regular basis. I'd go nuts...

[Lingchih]

OK. My Water Queens are definitely mad at the Oceanian terrorists now. I would count your days left on your fingers now, Oceania. You have two fingers, right?

[Rathar]

Xox is doing the most amazing job of staying alive and continuously giving it to the enemy.

The only view I've had has been from the coastline but it's been a bitter give and take with truly stupendous amounts of crab bits and whatnot washing up on our shores.

/salute xox

[Lingchih]

R'lyeh believes more fins than crab claws washed up on shore last turn.

But yes, Xox, well done. You have outlasted everything I could throw at you. Even without a castle anywhere, you have continued to vex me. Nagdesh willing though, you should be done this turn.

[thejeff]

In this past turn's battles Man has returned hundreds of longdead horse to their rest and slain a good number of sacred vestals and mortal troops as well, destroying one of Ermor's large armies with minimal losses. Fog Warriors is nice.
Provinces were lost to two smaller armies, but plans are afoot to deal with those.

Still it feels like a drop in the bucket. I destroyed far more troops than I have altogether and the situation hasn't really changed. We'll see how this month's plans play out. I don't expect another huge battle, but I could be surprised.


In other news: Man is in the market for a Firebrand or two. Frostbrands are not particularly useful against undead, nor are any cheap nature weapons. PM me if interested.

[Lingchih]

Well, that's it. The foul Oceanians are extinct. Amen.

Now what the hell do I do?

Does someone want to sell me their worst shore province? (preferably on the eastern shore). We are quiet neighbors, we don't spread insanity, we won't expand, and yes, you may see some funny lights up in the towers at night, but pay them no mind. My starspawn are night-owls, you know.

[IndyPendant]

Heh. I got another strike to the jaw recently by Man, no doubt about it.

You know, while every single other player is obsessing on me, me, and only me...you may want to notice that C'tis has more castles than I do, and has been very quietly building Tartarians for almost twenty turns now (based on when his Well of Misery went up). Or that Pangaea has built up an army as large as my own with fewer provinces and no true opposition for most of the game, whereas I've been at war pretty much nonstop.

I'm not trying to say I'm not the biggest threat--just that second place isn't very far behind me at all. It's no coincidence that Pangaea is bleating and pointing "Look over there! Not over here! Isn't Ermor big and nasty? Look over there!" ; ) If you all do focus on me exclusively, all you'll be doing is playing Kingmaker, taking my chance of winning and handing it to C'tis, Pangaea, or Machaka.

And if I'm such a threat to winning the game, why can't I get rid of Agartha? Why is Vanheim giving me so much trouble? Why did Man defeat one of my main armies so handily?

The answer is, I'm not as much a threat as I seem--but I am a convenient target for other threats to point to and use as a smokescreen. ; )

And yes, if I am defeated I will come back to point out this post and say "I told you so".

Anyone that wants peace and a NAP with me--except maybe Agartha, sorry. ; )--can have it. I have stated time and time again that I do not want to fight. Except for Abysia, who brought vengeance upon himself, all of my foes so far have attacked me...

Edit: Changed Sauromatia to Machaka.

[thejeff]

Actually you attacked Vanheim as well, making claims, to me at least, that you were just trying to pass through to get at Agartha.

I attacked you though. I'll freely admit that.

I'll agree there are other threats, not much weaker than you. What should we do? Ignore the greatest threat and strike at the lesser? And only 3 of us are focusing on you exclusively.
Not that Agartha has much choice.

And I may have destroyed one of your main armies, but one of your lesser ones is sieging my capital.

[Foodstamp]

Yeah, we have more castles than Ermor. We win Dominions. And we have 34034034 Tartarians. That is why anyone watching our fights against Machaka have not seen this vast army of tartarians take the field.

Watch your diplomacy, you may make more enemies very quickly.

[IndyPendant]

Heh. Whoops. Looks like I need to do some fast backpedalling here.

thejeff is absolutely right; I had somehow managed to forget that I had attacked Vanheim first, it's true. I *did* offer him an NAP before that though, which was rejected out of hand (and rather rudely too! ; ) So it had been a choice of sit and wait for him to attack me, or take advantage of the shortcut he provided me into Agartha's lands...

And to C'tis: sorry if I offended you (and for that matter, Machaka) then. I didn't know you were in a war with Machaka! I was having mildly paranoid visions of Machaka, C'tis, and/or Ulm jumping on the badwagon to take me down--while Pangaea sat back and watched the carnage, rubbing his hands and cackling with glee. I still stand by my accusation to Pangaea of having ulterior motives for urging everyone to attack me!

As to what other options Man has...good question. The unavoidable fact is I am the best contender to win the game. I can't argue against that. (And isn't it ironic that I wish that weren't true right now? ; ) All I'm trying to do is warn you...watch your back. The graphs don't tell the whole story; I am a *long* way from being anywhere sure of winning the game!

Edit: Changed Sauromatia to Machaka.

[thejeff]

Sauromatia? Do you mean Machaka?
At first I was thinking, great there's another major power I haven't even noticed yet. Then I remembered Sauromatia is Early Age.

And you always have to watch your back. But you have to act too. I doubt I'll be backstabbed while you're still a threat.
Someone is going to win. Barring a miracle, it's not going to be Man. But I'll do what I can, while I still can.

[thejeff]

And really, no one is willing/able to trade me a Firebrand or two?
Where are the merchants? Ulm? Anyone?

[Cor2]

We are willing, but we are unable. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/Sick.gif

[BigDisAwesome]

I can make you a couple but I don't have any spare gems. Send me 3 fire and 3 earth per brand you want for next turn. Also it depends on how busy my mages are fighting off Ermor next turn...

[Rathar]

/whistles innocently..

I would never think to say "Look over there and not at me!!"
Well ok in my last post I did mention overthrowing the Ermor horde and then me but..

I'll just say that I wish my army graph was composed of squintillions of undead cavalry instead of these damn maenids. Not much use even buffed!

[thejeff]

While I'd rather have the cavalry too, with Fog Warriors and Army of Gold/Lead, pretty much anything becomes at least a really solid shield.

And the maenids aren't vulnerable to all the undead counters.

Most of which I don't have, being stuck with H1 priests and Nature/Air mages. The buffs are good, but damage output is low.

[Lingchih]

So... I just went to summon my third water queen... Limne I think her name is. But lo..., she did not come.

So some little pissant, with a lake or something, has summoned my third water queen. This really pisses us off. We have nothing of power in this game, except our water queens. And now we have lost one.

Whoever has her, prepare to face the wrath of R'lyeh. We may not be a player in this game, but we will claim our water queens. Scouts are going out in all directions this turn to find the wayward Queen.

[Rathar]

There are two main possibilities; Either someone took a realllly risky gamble and summoned her on land hoping that the other two were already out. I notice that the spell summon water queen isn't water only btw. Or she was summoned in that little 2 province blip of water just east of Ex-Oceanean Territory.

Or the indy's in the far SW corner pool have managed to corral enough gems and sentience to do so. Or.. It's all a giant plot by me to go and get my *** handed to me in the water.

But really.. We don't care for the water. Water and Fur do not mix. Very itchy. Very very.

[IndyPendant]

Dammit, I'm not *ready* for the Armies-are-useless, Mages-are-everything stage of the game yet!

You all may get your wish after all. Looks like Ermor's ship is sinking.

[Cor2]

Argartha would like to thank the nation who has been sending us gold(you know who you are). Despite being small amounts it is very helpful to keep our troops from deserting.

[thejeff]

IndyPendant said:
Dammit, I'm not *ready* for the Armies-are-useless, Mages-are-everything stage of the game yet!

You all may get your wish after all. Looks like Ermor's ship is sinking.



Sure, believe that if you want. Perhaps you'd like to surrender now?
Or perhaps we could forswear the use of mages against each other? That would include not using summoned or reanimated troops, of course http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif


Seriously, that was a Pyrrhic victory for me. Half my army is dead and the rest are cursed and crippled. Judging by the graphs, it'll take maybe 3 turns to make up your losses?

With that many battlefield spells up, the armies essentially couldn't hurt each other and neither of us have real area effect mages. Thunderstrike is nice, but fairly small and the few crones I have who can cast it won't spam it.

I may have missed something, but I think it was: Fog Warriors, Mass Regen, Mass Protection, Arrow Fend and Wind Guide, versus Army of Lead, Antimagic, will of the Fates and the Ermor undead boosts. All in Darkness. Oh yeah, with Doom cast on my troops.
And then they just stood there and took futile swipes at each other for 50 turns.

[IndyPendant]

Heh. You have still taken the castle, decimated two major armies so far, including over two dozen leaders, and you have cut my lands in two. You have also thrown me out of your capital. All for the loss of less than 150 units and around a half-dozen leaders.

And Vanheim is using the opportunity to gain back the lands I have conquered from him; soon I will probably be evicted from his lands entirely.

And meanwhile, Pangaea continues to grow, secure and unopposed in the west.

No, this will not be easy to recover from.

[Rathar]

Yeah, being first is rough. Not looking forward to my turn if it comes. Hopefully folks will be too distracted by all the Maened breasts to plan out well thought out attacks. I'm just hoping to be the last person in first place if ya get my drift.

Unlikely though as I've never played Pangea before and never experienced a real end game where mages, tartarians and whatnot reign supreme. It's starting to look like I am the only real blood nation left though and that may prove critical. Although how there are any virgins left in my nation full of Satyrs and such is beyond me!

[thejeff]

I did take the castle. True. Cutting your lands in two was part of the plan. As was giving Vanheim a reprieve.

Just being able to hold back the small armies you've got around my capital is hardly a major victory.

And I lost more than a dozen commanders this turn alone. Not sure how many died storming the castle. Including my only thugs and at least one critical Crone. At least I found her boosters after the battle.
And a 150+ troops may be little to you, but it was half my army. I'm working on a different scale here.

Most of the few of your mages I've been able to kill have been your cheap thaumaturges, and they've mostly communioned themselves to death.

Another victory or two like that, and I'll be done.

It's sort of amusing that we're both proclaiming how weak we are. Most be hell on the troops morale. On your part, it's probably partly propoganda, trying to convince others you'r e no threat. There's also a tendency to see your own weaknesses and others strengths.

As for Pangaea, he's fighting some sort of desultory war with T'ien Chi. Maybe my scouts are just missing the major battles. Not much I could do about that. And if I hadn't attacked when I did, you would have rolled over the rest of Vanheim and been well in the lead. I'm still not convinced you're as far out as you claim.

[Rathar]

Pangea and Tien-Chi have resolved their differences quite some time ago. Any battles you may have seen were me trying to kill off some pesky militia and reduce my crippling upkeep.

Just to let ya know.

[thejeff]

Oh, I knew you'd started a war. Hadn't seen anything in awhile and then saw one of those militia battles last turn, so assumed I'd just missed the excitement.

Never mind, then...

Carry on with the fear mongering about Pan's unstoppable hordes.

[Lingchih]

Ahh. We see now. Should have just looked at the Hall of Fame to begin with. C'tis has our Water Queen, and is holding her against her will.

Well Lizards, you can use her for now. But I would not get her killed. She would return to her rightful place the next turn if that happens.

[Ylvali]

In the halls of Mictlan layed Fu-tsang lung, god of tien chi, dragon of wealth and order. His eyes clouded by pain, still his divine aura was one of peace.

Mo hi hai stood trembling below his gaze, shying from the divine kindness of his beloved god.

-master...you are in bad shape. I...don´t know if my efforts will be sufficient this time. I´m sorry...but...

-My child! The dragon mildly interrupted.

-how great is your devotion? I besieged the monkey people and was wounded, you did not fail me then. Now I have layed Mictlan under my rule after long and bitter struggle and I am wounded once more, you will not fail me now. I know you better than yourself, I can see into your heart and it knows no hesitation. Only your brain plays tricks of despair. Remember that we have won! Hopefully a time of peace awaits, and you will have time to cure me before my strenght is tested again.

-yes father. Mo hi hai whispered before hurrying away.

Fu-tsang lung looked after him and spoke, one head to the other.

-I fear this peace to be frail, my physical wounds are shallow compared to those in my soul. Can I bare the slaughter of yet another people? The screams of mictlans haunt me still, how can I find such steel within me.

The other head:

-You worry too much my dear! Sleep brother, sleep and forget. Yesterday is but a memory, tomorrow is illusion. Only now exists.

-Easy to say sister, but my pain is now. And very real indeed.

-Why sooo moody all of a sudden, can I please be spared of your depression? I for one cherish our victory!

-Such is our nature sister, to mirror the duality of ourself.

-Whatever, see you tomorrow.

-very well, good night.

-sweet dreams.

[Foodstamp]

Lingchih said:
Ahh. We see now. Should have just looked at the Hall of Fame to begin with. C'tis has our Water Queen, and is holding her against her will.

Well Lizards, you can use her for now. But I would not get her killed. She would return to her rightful place the next turn if that happens.



You pretend to know the will of elements? There is a reason that Limne chose us over all people of the world. She is treated as a goddess amongst our people, and she is given the opportunity to smite those who would be blinded by the flames of false royalty.

[IndyPendant]

Heh. Okay guys, I'm burning out. I find I just do not enjoy Dom3 endgame, so I'm going to find a replacement. Details here (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=602941).

[thejeff]

I'm sorry to see you go. This is my first serious endgame and I've learned a lot. Mostly about what I should have done. I've been lucky that you haven't had a real counter to Fog Warriors. I've go other tricks in mind, but I doubt they'll execute as well.

It'll be somewhat frustrating to lose to someone who didn't do the work of building up the position, or to beat someone who throws it away, but I get not liking the endgame. I avoid big games for just that reason. It's a game, no point in continuing if it's no fun.

[Cor2]

darn.

[IndyPendant]

Thanks guys.

Yeah, in a lot of ways this has been a very interesting game! I've enjoyed the open diplomacy, the showers of love ; ) and so forth. This has been one of the most amicable gang-ups I've played in. And I've been highly amused by that army just parked on top of Agartha for like forever, like a cork in a bottle.

It's the mechanics of the game that are doing me in, not the players. Dom3 is too limited in its options for end-game for my tastes. It would not be so bad for me if the end-game truly came at the end of the game. But we're already at the stage now where all that matters are the gems, the SCs, and the mages--and it will still be a *long* time before a winner is finally decided. (Unless you all want to concede now? Heh.) This is only my second end-game as well btw (the first being Elli; I don't count King, since I never really fought there); if I had known how much I hated the ending at the start, I would not have joined a game on a map this big. Ah well, I have had a lot of fun so far!

I'll keep the turns churning until I find a replacement. Don't think you're getting off that easy! Someone should want the spot; opportunities like these don't come up very often...; )

[thejeff]

Yeah, I think I'll be looking for smaller games too.

So far, at least in our major battles, it's been all about the mages and battlefield buffs. Neither of us has really used SCs, other than my pretender and he hasn't been too effective.

I can think of a couple simple SC builds that would only have trouble wiping out my main army due to turn limits. Kind of surprised I haven't seen them, actually.

[Lingchih]

Heh. I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for a replacement. There are not many people that really enjoy playing end game Ermor. Maybe though.

[Lingchih]

Damn. You did find a sub. I am surprised. Everyone gang up on Ermor... new guy in the house. Mind hunts galore!

[Rathar]

2.5 hours to go, 3, three, I say of you yet to go.. Snap snap!

Tithonos felt more than slightly sick as his diet for the last few months had been gems, nothing but gems, and he felt he could eat no more. Even his ludicrously bulging muscles failed to reassure (47str centaur /cough!) him past the strength of his reluctance.

Fortunately orders came that very afternoon from the lips of Stheno herself. "The time for liberation of the westernmost of the great southern forests is tomorrow. I shall see you there."

[Amhazair]

Blimey, looks like I signed up for a challange. A large nation with lots of S/D mages (which is good) but with a disapointingly small gem income for its size, and very limited magic diversity (which is bad) and at war with no less than 4 (counting Agartha) nations. (which is worse)

I'm curious to see how it will play out.

Hello all, I'm looking forward to playing with you.
I will obviously honour all of Ermor's standing agreements, and extend my hand in friendship to all lands on this earth. Ermor sees no reason for war. After all, in the end all will die, and will serve us then. There is no reason to hasten the process.

P.S. Ermor is also in need of nature gems. Anyone not brainwashed by the 'big-bad-all-consuming-Ermor-threat-propaganda' is welcome to contact us for trade.

Edit: Disregard my offer to trade for nature gems for now. While I do need them, after starting to seriously look at things it turns out I basically have nothing much to trade for them. (Unless you'd be intrested in a couple of stray fire gems at least)

[thejeff]

Welcome aboard.
I do hope to help make it a challenge. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

And I really don't want to hear anything about small gem income or limited magic diversity. I have plenty of diversity, I've got mages with Air and some Nature and mages with Nature and some Air. How much more diversity does anyone need?

The rest of your message reveals the corruption that is the heart of Ermor. Death is a part of the cycle of life. All life ends in death, but only to make way for new life. The dead should not be forced to serve again. Your tide of death will be stopped.

I suspect few will heed your desire for more gems to grant thought to the ancient monstrosities you have pulled from their rest. At the least, Man will not.

[IndyPendant]

Well, Pan launched his massive assault after I wrote my recruitment post. It probably would have had a completely different tone if written a turn or two later. Looks like I was right; I was ignored, and now Pan will be rampaging through Ermor's lands, growing ever more powerful while everyone completely ignores him.

*ahem*

I told you so.

[Amhazair]

thejeff said:
And I really don't want to hear anything about ... limited magic diversity. I have plenty of diversity, I've got mages with Air and some Nature and mages with Nature and some Air. How much more diversity does anyone need?

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

Ah, well. I guess I just managed to spoil myself in my previous games. Somehow in all my games I manage to acquire high levels in all paths of magic (with the possible exception of blood) so my current situation feels a bit awkward in that respect. I'll just have to find a way to cope with it though, won't I?

[Rathar]

I've been working on that for a looong time. A bit longer than desired as I learned such handy things as Faery Trod needing to have both a forest as the destination AND the departure point.. Not to mention sneaking all those damn dryads in there.

Nice wave of counter assasinations btw.

Oh and I am curious as to whether all those seeking arrows did anything? I am guess not since I heard no complaints!

I am so next, sigh!

[Amhazair]

I didn't see any seeking arrows, so I suppose you cast them the turn before last? If that's the case You'll have to ask IndyPendant for the results.

Is the server down, by the way? I've been trying to connect all evening to check how long exactly I had to submit my turn, since I forgot to pay attention to it when I downloaded the turn. But no connection happened. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[Rathar]

Yeah. Arsnotoria.net is down in general atm.

Those arrows I asked about were sent turns ago 4 a turn, etc etc http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[thejeff]

I suspect Indy assumed all those seeking arrows came from me or Vanheim. Which was probably intended. You're fighting two air nations and being attacked by air spells, why look elsewhere?

Amhazair, just in case you weren't informed, there is a status page linked on the first post of this thread. It's a little confused, though. It still thinks we're on a 24 hour timer, so the time limit is actually when it says there are -24 hours until next hosting.

[Amhazair]

Yeah, thanks. I found the status page too, but as you said, also noticed the 24h schedule, so I didn't trust it too far.

[Amhazair]

Wow, that must have been some archer. Robin Hood himself couldn't have made that shot. Somehow an anonymous member from the lion clan tribe managed to fire his primitive shortbow at the imposing figure of Man's so-called Lord of the Forest. The arrow sped past his shield, through his armor, and embedded itself deeply in his 'invulnerabylized' body, causing enough damage to kill a normal man, and leaving even his tougher target with a permanent limp. Pity I can't indentify him, cause the guy deserves a medal. (Or a GoR and a magical bow)

[thejeff]

It was a nice shot. Or a lucky one.

I'll have to watch again. I didn't even notice when it happened. Just, suddenly there's a limp. Oh well, just a limp. Not like he needs to walk around much anyway. Just needs a faster way to kill chaff...

And I need to fire whoever organized the defense in Witches Copse. Actually, I think you took care of that for me...
Not that I would have won, but better placement would have meant more survivors.

[IndyPendant]

As to the seeking arrows, yeah I just assumed they were from Man or Van--although I did wonder why they didn't target my moving armies, in the hopes of splitting them! Now I know. *glares at Pan* Axis of Evil indeed! ; )

They were annoying; more I will not say. Would not be fair to my successor, should I let something slip by mistake.

Now I shall return to lurking. Have fun!

[BigDisAwesome]

This game has grown so terribly boring for me.

We all agree I have no chance of going anywhere. At this point I do my turns just to stick it to Ermor as much as I can. I've been dead in the water for like 2 weeks now but he hasn't finished me off!

I'm trying to be a good sport. I really am, but this much micromanagement in a game I'm in 2nd to last(sorry Agartha!) is a little ridiculous. How would you guys feel about my nation going AI?

Heck now that Ermor can cast Ghost Riders I really shouldn't last much longer anyway.

[Foodstamp]

I would like to see you stick around. From my point of view, it seems like your war against Ermor has been pretty exciting, and you are still in a position to be a factor in the late game.

[Cor2]

There is no shame in being last. I have been pondering going AI as well. But I stick it out just to stick it to ermor.

[Lingchih]

I am solidly in the running for last place myself, although I control the water. There is little I can do on land. I am staying in the game though, just for the fun of it. Summon some Abominations, send my water queens out if there is a good place to strike, build up my Wishers. Who knows? R'lyeh might yet play a part in the end game.

But, of course, we are friends to all in the game at this point, and wish no harm to anyone. We are just trying to build that damn spaceship, so we can get off this hellhole planet.

[Amhazair]

All this hatred directed at poor me. What ever could I have done to deserve that? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Edit: To actually respond to your question: I am at the moment still busy formulating my overall strategy, but for now my thinking is you are just too far away from my heartlands to make war against you very effective, and I don't think I'll be spending the huge amount of resources necessary to project power all the way over there and actually take you out anytime soon. I'll be more than happy if I can just keep you busy. If you were to go AI that would make my job much easier, which would be a pity for your allies.

P.S. If you want to reduce your micro: I would be very happy to make peace with you, you know. That way you'd have a lot less micromanagement to attend too. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[thejeff]

R'lyeh is in running for last place? "Summon some Abominations, send my water queens out if there is a good place to strike, build up my Wishers."?!?
What am I still doing in this game?
You can claim last place once Agartha, Vanheim and myself have been crushed.

BigDisAwesome, I also hope you stick around. From a purely selfish point of view, I suspect my chances of survival would be even more grim without you in the fight. And with Pan attacking, he's going to be able to devote a lot less resources to us. Gives you a chance to recover.

[BigDisAwesome]

Eh I can stick around I suppose. What are the chances of us moving to a 72 hour hosting time? We are on turn 60 or something after all.

[IndyPendant]

Hmm, I've been thinking about this a bit, and I have to ask: Why do you want to 'stick it to Ermor' so badly?

I haven't asked for these wars; I've actively sought peace the entire game, including offering it a few times during our wars. It seems to me that we have had one of the most amicable knock-down, all-out conflicts you can have in a MP game, with much banter and good-natured posturing back and forth. Indeed, to a large extent the players have been the fun part of this game for me.

I'm not trying to be defensive (or offensive!) here. Just honestly curious. Did I earn wrath somehow, or is that 'stick it to Ermor' just part of the game? ; )

[Lingchih]

I think it depends on your style of play. I am playing MA Ermor in another game, and have amicable relations with most of the other players, and this is way into late game. But, I am not uber powerful in that game, just a middle of the road power.

Ermor always elicits some suspicion, and if you play very aggressively, and take the lead the lead in the game, then you will of course cause the "stick it to Ermor" effect to happen.

If on the other hand, you expand to middling size, play nice with the neighbors, and quietly sit back and summon your Tartatians and recruit massive numbers of shadow vestals and longdead horsemen, you can come out swinging in the late game.

[Rathar]

For me it was the huge lead in provinces, forts, gems and the potential represented by that commanding lead in those areas.

Eventually you would be able to just swarm territory and race for the win.

If we sat around, we'd get squished.

[Amhazair]

"Tithonos looked up to the divine form of Vitae, God of Gods, Prince of Fate, God of the Sacred Eye, Guardian of the Bridge, God of the Celestial Bodies, the feeling of awe clearly visible on his features. Next to the fountain a beautiful young girl with a glazed look in her eyes spoke: 'We are beset by enemies on all sides, Tithonos, and our future is grim. But we are certain you will serve us well in this difficult time. Your strength is still unequalled, and we will make good use of it. It's time for you to move out.' Tithonos stood up from his kneeling position, and couldn't resist showing of his massive muscles to good effect after the compliment. His reply was simple and to the point though. 'As you command master, so shall it be.' And the little girl remained standing next to the fountain, watching as rank after rank of centaurs and satyrs escorted the thaumaturgs out the gates of the former Abysian capital, to face Ermors enemies on the field of battle."

In its unbridled imperial arrogance the forest dwellers of Pangaea had seen fit to invade the heartlands of our peaceful nation, in order to colonize it for their own nefarious purposes. Being threatened in our very existance by this uwarranted act of agression Ermor's senate authorized the redirection of all resources of the nation into organizing the defence of the threatened territories.

The colonizing army is now ours.

The senate wishes to extend its thanks to the Pangaean government for the gift of quality troops, a commodity Ermor used to be short on.

[Rathar]

Ahahahahha.. Man that was brutal.

"And thus ended the story of Pangea's expeditionary army"

I got utterly schooled there. How does one protect against master enslave?! Mightve helped a bit if my guys had cast the spells they were supposed to but no they just stared in horror at the debacle. My near total lack of endgame experience will slay me!

Treat Tithonos well!

[Amhazair]

Rathar said:
I got utterly schooled there. How does one protect against master enslave?! Mightve helped a bit if my guys had cast the spells they were supposed to but no they just stared in horror at the debacle.

I've been on the receiving end of master enslaves when storming an enemy castle twice now. The first time I didn't see it comming, and the result was pretty much the same as here, total annihilation of my attacking army. The second time was just this past month. I knew I would be hit by it, and I thought I had prepared well for it. I had a massive army, with a big communion of my own, and I hoped to use master enslave myself to get some of my troops back and steel my opponents too. I had several mages capable of casting massive damage spells, battlefield buffs, and enough pearls to cast master enslave 5 times. And the communion had enough endurance for my slaves to survive all that spellcasting without passing out. Or so I thought. What happened was that I got hit by the first enslave and when it was my turn, instead of hitting back with everything I had prepared, my key mages decided to melee with my own enslaved troops. (Which is what happened to your army too. Mages in melee have 50% chance of attacking instead of casting spells, and with so many of your troops enslaved, every one of your mages was probably engaged in melee. ) The result, despite all my preparation was, once again, total annihilation.

As to how to defend against master enslave? Difficult, very difficult. Antimagic/army of lead helps a lot, but not if the defender manages to get off his enslave on the first turn. In this particular situation, I see no way you could have conquered the castle with a regular army. (which doesn't necessarily mean there is no way of course) What would probably have worked was you sending in a SC and/or several thugs with really high MR (end 20's, preferably begin 30 if you can manage it) so they could not only survive master enslave, but the inevitable soul slays as well. With a MR like that I would have been very unlikely to kill them, and they would have made short work of the few troops and many mages I had in the castle.

[Amhazair]

Rathar said:
Treat Tithonos well!

I'm afraid I'll just have to use him as cannon fodder, along with the other centaurs I captured. Unforunately as he was enslaved, he no longer is a commander, and there's no way I can gather the nature gems to GoR him. And without items he's just an elite unit, nothing more.

Since we've been following his carreer since the beginning of the game (yes, I read the entire thread) I felt he deserved a fitting farewell though.

[Velusion]

Rathar said:
How does one protect against master enslave?!



Field some strong SCs. Armies alone are usually not enough in a protracted end game.

[Amhazair]

I came home with a blinding headache today, and really (really!) don't feel up to playing my turn now. Am gona hit the sack instead.

I haven't been in this game long enough to have seen how you all feel about timer extensions? If it's possible to delay hosting by 24h that would be wonderful, if not I'll just have to stale. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Either way, I wish you all a pleasant night. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

P.S. Of course, I'm also getting a new computer tomorrow, and I'm technically ignorant, so worst case scenario I screw something up and don't manage to get everything on line tomorrow either. I hope to manage though. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[thejeff]

I don't have a problem with an extension. I may need to ask for one this weekend myself.

It is usually best to PM Velusion, since he's not playing and thus not following the thread too closely. Which I will do, since you're hopefully unconscious by now.

[Rathar]

I think the rule so far is that you have to pay everyone 10 gems of your choice for one.. Yeah uhh yeah..

[Foodstamp]

Extension please, I can't log onto the server and I need to get to bed http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif.

[Velusion]

I reset the clock's timer.

[Lingchih]

We of R'lyeh declare war on C'tis, for the unlawful imprisoning of the water queen Limne. C'tis can end this war at any time, by handing over Limne. But until then, we are at war.

[Lingchih]

Through scrying and other means, we have just noticed that C'tis is probably the second most powerful nation in the world, and greatly overpowers us.

We hereby rescind the declaration of war. You can keep her. Limne seems quite happy where she is, after all.

The councilors who urged war have been mind-flayed.

-R'lyeh

[Foodstamp]

R'lyeh,

You flatter us with such a title. If we are the "second most powerful" nation in these lands, than surely we are neck and neck with other "second most powerful" nations.

Limne will be honored this month. She shall become the new voice of the Thing of Eternity. She misses her sisters greatly and hopes to act as a liaison to the peoples of R'lyeh in the future, on more peaceful terms than were proposed.

For the months to come, no harm shall come to R'lyeh from our hands unless it is an act of retaliation. We respect your dominion over the seas as long as you respect our claim to the humid air, the tepid waters and the lands that buffer them.

So say the High Priests of C'tis speaking as regent to the queen soon to be crowned, she who would speak for the living symbol of our people, the Thing of Eternity.

[thejeff]

Well, that went badly. Man is pretty much beaten now. My god is dead, and probably still feeble minded if I manage to call him back. I lost my only real army and a lot of mages, plus some booster items I really couldn't afford to lose.
Fog Warriors, Mass protect and Regen, with Lightning spam and storm of Thorns just doesn't stand up to Fog Warriors, Army of Gold, Darkness and Nether Dart spam. At least I prolonged the battle long enough to kill off a lot of communion slaves.

Since I've never had the money to castle everywhere, I've got no real defense against Ghost riders. (Is there any other defense? Small forces wandering around retaking the provinces works, or huge amounts of PD, backed up by a couple mages everywhere. But that just begs for multiple castings to wipe out the investment.)

Good work, Amhazair. I suspect a lot of my earlier success were due to Indy not being interested.

I'm not giving up yet. I've still got a couple of surprises up my sleeve, but the writing is definitely on the wall.

C'tis: If you're not second most powerful, it's between you and Pangaea. Who else do you think might qualify?

[Amhazair]

thejeff said:
Well, that went badly.

I agree. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

I stupidly managed not to notice there was a forest dome up over that province, and the nice surprise I had prepared to teleport in got blocked by it. I nearly fainted when I read the 'spell got cancelled by dome' message. As a result part of my scripting was un-optimized, since I was counting on the unspecified surprise party.

Luckily I happened to have just enough force on the field to carry the day, but I was worried there at times. Perhaps if your pretender had survived for a longer time, drawing fire and killing stuff things could have been different. (Did you swap his equipment around? I seem to remember him having a higher MR in previous battles. )

And loosing 32 communion slaves hurts a lot. I would call that battle more of a draw than a win for me, actually. But you're probably right that I can replace my army easier than you can.

Re: second most powerful nation: I'm curious about how strong Ulm is, actually. According to my sources they've been at peace the entire game, their graphs are decent enough, and I've seen a couple of nasties walking around in their lands. No idea if they managed to build up their magical diversity though, or how strong they will turn out to be once they go to war. As they say, the proof of the pudding is in the eating.

[thejeff]

Great, so I was supposed to be even more overwhelmed. Was it your Oracle? Or some other Master Enslaver?

He didn't last long enough to cast Resist Magic, which I can't script early because the AI will override it with Astral Shield. You got lucky and feebleminded him, then he couldn't shrug off the Soul slays.

You lost 32 Thaumaturges and a bunch of replaceable undead. I lost my god, a kitted out Banelord (closest thing to an SC I've been able to muster), most of my troops and battle mages (such as they are). This isn't a draw, it's a disaster.

I'm curious about Ulm, too. He's been uncommunicative since early on. It would be interesting to see how much he's been able to build up and diversify. Unless he's got a serious master plan, he should probably intervene pretty soon. I think things will be shaking out fairly shortly.

[thejeff]

As I hinted at earlier, I'm going to be away this weekend. Depending on when this turn hosts, I may or may not need an extension, but I'm going to ask for an extra 24 hours just to be safe.

[Foodstamp]

thejeff said:

C'tis: If you're not second most powerful, it's between you and Pangaea. Who else do you think might qualify?



Machaka and Ulm just to name a couple.

[thejeff]

Hmmm, as suggested above, Ulm is an unknown and could be quite a surprise. My feeling is he's not going to be that impressive, but I don't have a lot to base that on.

As for Machaka, you rolled over a nice chunk of his territory with little real opposition. That seems to have stalled, but not reversed, you'd know better than I why, but unless he actually starts taking back territory, I'm leaving you ranked above him. Losing the Earth gem global will hurt him too.

[Lingchih]

Well, 3/4 of the way till host time, and only two nations have taken their turn. And two nations staled again last turn. It would seem that interest in this game has waned. Shall we call it a draw?

[Amhazair]

Well, actually there still are 54h left. Thejeff asked for an extension over the weekend, and people might just be taking advantage of the extra time. (My turn is done, except that I'm hoping to hear back from someone about something, so I haven't submitted yet. )

As for waning intrest, you'd best ask that to the people longer in the game than me. For me it's still shiny and new. Makes me feel like a vi-i-i-irgin... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Foodstamp]

To all the people who feel like they are on the brink of elimination but are still having fun with this game...

I am giving up my C'tis position. If you are about to be eliminated and would like to take over a strong position let me know. You can flip yourself to AI and have my spot http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

[Rathar]

Man, everyone is losing morale myself included! 700 troops. my pretender (lesson learned, pretender MR is [censored] in others lands) and ungodly gems lost to no real gain.

Brutal!

The endgame with its reliance on a handful of spells/summons is dull especially if you havent got death and astral casters.
Oh well I'll limp along but..

[Amhazair]

C'tis uninterested, Pangaea demotivated, R'lyeh raised the question, Ermor already left, Vanheim already mentioned he would prefer to call it a day, Agartha, well... you know... , Man thinks he will die quite soon. Not many nations left then.

As I said, I just stepped in, and am ready to keep playing, but it's not like I've had much time to form an emotional attachment to the game either. Up to you guys.

[Cor2]

Amhazair said:
Agartha, well... you know... ,




Not dead yet! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/Injured.gif

[BigDisAwesome]

Cor2 said:

Amhazair said:
Agartha, well... you know... ,




Not dead yet! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/Injured.gif



Says the guy whose turns take like 5 minutes! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Lingchih]

I'll keep playing if you like. It's not too bad. I'll even come over and fight you in a few turns, Amahzair, if you like. Though all I have are some Aboms and water queens that suck on land. I was just commenting on the lack of interest of most everyone else.

Actually, it would be better if you would come fight me, since then I could get an Army of Lead off before you master enslave. Either way though.

[BigDisAwesome]

Well I'm not thrilled to be still be dragging along just waiting to get gobbled up, but I'll tough it out til someone pulls ahead.

The thing is I don't know if there is a clearcut winner right now.

[Lingchih]

It's one of those tough endgames. Several really strong players with vast lands to try and conquer. Me, in the water with no one really able to root me out. A nice Burden of Time might speed things up quite a bit, but I could dispel it, and my guys live to like 1000 anyway.

[thejeff]

I'm OK either way. My turns are depressing, but I suspect they're going to be getting shorter and easier as my options get fewer.

I've known for a long time I was in no position to win and now I'm not even in a position to have much effect. I'll slow Ermor down a bit, make him waste more resources, but that's all.

As far as a clear winner, if C'tis is dropping and Pangaea thinks he's outmatched, that leaves Ermor. Unless anyone else thinks they're in the running? Machaka? Ulm? Lingchih seems to think he could hold out, but that's not a victory. Vanheim, Agartha and I are out of the running.

[thejeff]

So half of us staled this turn. I assume that means the game is dead?

[Lingchih]

thejeff said:
So half of us staled this turn. I assume that means the game is dead?



I guess so. I played my turn, but without much interest. I think it should be called a draw though. Ermor is strongest, but who knows if they would have actually won.

[Rathar]

I didn't mean to stale I just didn't seem to be able to count correctly. Missed it by minutes dang.

[Amhazair]

Lingchih said:

thejeff said:
So half of us staled this turn. I assume that means the game is dead?



I guess so. I played my turn, but without much interest. I think it should be called a draw though. Ermor is strongest, but who knows if they would have actually won.

Oh, absolutely. It's way too early to declare a winner. I have to admit I was feeling like everything was going according to plan, but a grand alliance of everyone and everything should still be able to stop me.

[Foodstamp]

I could not find a replacement so I moved myself to AI this turn. I just can't keep up with the micromanagement of the end game at this point with everything else I have going on. I am hoping to have things back to normal before the upcoming megagame. If so, I look forward to seeing you guys in that one.

This game truly was very fun, I had a blast and MA C'tis has found a place in my heart. Goodluck to the remaining contenders.

[BigDisAwesome]

Well that sucks pretty hard for me and Man. That NAP we had doesn't mean much to the computer...

[Foodstamp]

Lo siento http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif.

I offered all the nations on the brink to take over the position.

[Cor2]

We are pleased to announce that Argatha now controls TWO provinces! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Cake.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Rathar]

Go Agartha!

With the setting of C'tis to AI I think we might be done here. Having to fight an all attention consuming war against one player with a really decked out AI at your back sounds sucky.

I will still fight but with my highest astral mage at 5 and death at 4 I don't have what it takes in the limited funnels of the end games. Learned a ton though! I had never played Pangea before let alone survived past turn 20 or so in a MP game on these forums.

[Lingchih]

R'lyeh will keep playing until the game is obviously done. I can Wish now, summon Tartarians, all that end game crap. It looks like Machaka has quit the game, so I will just go through him (Machaka... if you are still playing, and don't want me to go through you, say so now).

If someone could send me some earth gems, I would appreciate it. I have all kinds of gems to trade.

[thejeff]

Machaka's played this turn, so I wouldn't assume he's out.

T'ien Ch'i and Ulm have both been staling for awhile and Ulm, at least, has potential to affect the game. I don't know what state T'ien Ch'i is in.

As far as I'm concerned it's really not worth continuing with one major power AI and two repeatedly staling, especially since the geography favors Ermor. An AI C'tis is likely to attack Vanhiem and me and keep Machaka focused on him, while a staling Ulm serves as a save buffer for him.

I'm going to PM Hetzer and Ylvali and see where they stand. If we don't hear anything from them within a day or so, we can try to find replacements. As much as I hate to delay more, I'd like to postpone hosting until then. That'll give more time to find a sub for C'tis as well.

If all else fails, though I'd rather play out Man's demise, I'll take over one of them. Maybe BigDisAwesome and/or Cor2 can do the same?

[Amhazair]

*Gulp*

All my enemies suddenly taking over my currently peaceful neighbours.

Sounds like I might be in trouble... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/fear.gif

[Ylvali]

I´m sorry to say that I managed to forget this game for a while. I don´t think I can do much difference at this point. If there are people still enjoying the game who wants to go on then I´m back in. I´ll do my turns and try to go out with a bang.

If C´tis goes AI I beleive I´m pretty much [censored], as he has big armies at my border. Well you never know.

Appologees for causing you trouble, it wasn´t on purpose.

[BigDisAwesome]

Cor2 said:
We are pleased to announce that Argatha now controls TWO provinces! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Cake.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif



YEAH!

[thejeff]

Well, Ylvali has come back, but Hetzer is still missing in action.

Unless there are objections here, I'm going to post another request for subs for Ulm and C'tis and ask Velusion for an extension until we get this sorted out.

Since Hetzer's incommunicado, anyone taking Ulm will have to get the master password. Since the alternative is an AI, I don't see that as a real problem.

If we don't get a response within a day or so, would Cor2 or BigDisAwesome like to take one of the two? (Though with Agartha's recent doubling in size he not want to leave the comeback trail...) I could do so as well. I think any of the 3 of us going AI would cause less disruption than Ulm and/or C'tis.

[BigDisAwesome]

I'll play Vanheim out til I'm dead to keep the game going, but I'd really rather not take over for someone else. Never really enjoyed that.

[Cor2]

Yeah, I would take one of them. What ever anyone does not want.

[Lingchih]

Well, mostly no answers for the sub requests. And this game has delayed so long it is just about to go off my radar. If we still want to play it, I say to let anyone going AI go AI, and let's get on with it. Otherwise, let's just end it.

[Lingchih]

Oh, one other thing. We could use about 75 astral gems. We could trade, well, anything you want for them, I guess.

[thejeff]

Well, Ironhawk PM'd me with interest and I sent him to Foodstamp or Velusion, since they have the passwords.
And JimMorrison responded in the sub request thread. I don't know where either of those stand.

[Cor2]

I am okay with putting this puppy to sleep.

[Lingchih]

Sleepy time. I will check in from time to time, to see if the game is still going. But otherwise I consider this game dead. Too bad, it had some promise. At least it showed me what MA R'lyeh has in the end game.

[Rathar]

Machaka and ctis are now AI.

Guess Velusion got tired of waiting for us to work it out. Sadly this game appears to be a draw.?

[Ylvali]

I hereby declare myself the winner! Wohooo!

[Rathar]

Yay! My vassal state won!

[Velusion]

So do I need to send a password to someone? Is there a winner?

[Ylvali]

Rathar said:
Yay! My vassal state won!



High five!

[Cor2]

No Clearly Argatha won. Last turn they doubled thier size, at this rate they will own the entire map in less than 20 turns.

[Lingchih]

Yay, I won! Send me the trophy

[Lingchih]

Seriously. Knock me out of the water. I dare you. This game is not won till you can kill me. Or, everyone else decides to call it a draw.

[Velusion]

I need a serious consensus about the state of this game. Does anyone dispute that it is a draw?

[BigDisAwesome]

I agree to whatever the rest of the majority agrees to.

[thejeff]

It's dead, Jim.

I'd be prepared to call Ermor the winner. Obviously, unless everyone agrees, then it has to be a draw. All I really know is that I've lost. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Lingchih, he may have trouble knocking you out of the water, at least not quickly, but he doesn't have to. The game started with a 50% of provinces for 3 turns victory condition. You'd have to challenge him on land.

[Amhazair]

Nah, Ermor definitely hasn't won (yet). I mean, with Machaka and C'tis AI I think strange things would have to happen for me not to win, and I'm obviously in a good position. But with all nations being played there's more than time enough yet to stop me.

Chalk this one up as a draw I'd say.

[Lingchih]

I agree. Draw. Shut her down Velusion, and thanks very much for hosting.

[Cor2]

draw.

[Rathar]

I dunno if anyone is interested but if you wish my password just to check things out PM me.

[Lingchih]

Holy... Pan was decked out. He would have been tough to beat, even without his pretender. Ahh well, time for the next game, Kingmaker.

[Velusion]

Ok the game is a draw! I'm taking it down now. Thanks for the game people!

[Ylvali]

Fu-tsang lung is satisfied, peace and order prevails over war and chaos. Let us live together in peace and devote our divine wisdom to make this world a better place.

See you in other games.