VampireBat - LA game for new players- started

[Aezeal]

I can't remember any events this turn..

How are the other pplz in the world with thugs..

I've only outfitted one vanjarl semi-decently for the rest I'm relying on galderman/volva and my good troops einheres and skinshifters.

I'm planning to do some summoning the next turns but I've not got much experience with SC or thugging

[Ghill]

I lost every battle except one...I didn't even HIT a single super combatant...I have been reduced to 1/3 of my original territory...and I neglected to stock up on priests for anti-demon work...*whimper*

On the posotive side, you cannot possibly afford to keep all of your SC's attacking me for more than a few turns, and I should be able to defeat your main army with a well placed horde of archers. I hope.

[Zenzei]

Aezeal: Vanjarls make kick *** thugs with a right bless(EN), little equipment and some buffs. If you haven't taken a bless with jarls in mind, little more equipment is needed.

[Karlem]

Ghill, you took 2 provinces and are sieging one of my castles... not so bad considering I begun with a quite better possition. What is true is that probably this wasn't the kind war you expected, but in 3 to 1 I cannot afford to clash armies against armies.

You had some quite nice chasis for thugs with the troll kings, you could have tried to outfit them.that would have been a nasty surprise.

By the wa, who is the voyeur? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif My last battels have been under some astral windows and I would like to know if they liked them or not http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif

[Aezeal]

Hmm personally I'd throw soulslays on every SC that comes my way.. lol no idea how to deal with them otherwise.

It wasn't me I'd have no idea where to look, but I didn't even know you would know if a astral window was cast either.

have fun you all... let me know what tricks are used, since we should all be nubs but it seems I'm not so updated on tricks as some of us http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[James243]

Aezeal, not sure if Khan'Gar qualifies as a supercombatant, but your soulslay strategy worked pretty well against him... Next game I'll figure out how to defend my pretender better. Or maybe I'll try being a fountain or one of those standing stones...

This game has been fantastic in terms of teaching me - I really didn't know much about bless, improving mages, etc, plus a gazillion other things...

[Zenzei]

Karlem, I bought the best seat tickets to several Mictlan vs. Patala matches. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Zenzei]

This turn Ulm managed to capture 5 provinces from Mictlan, which is not bad but certainly isn't good enough either because Mictlan took more than 5 provinces from Patala. In addition to that, Patala's situation is already dire because the proud warriors of monkey people can't match the dukes of hell in personal combat and therefore vast majority of Patala's armies are decimated after two turns of war. It remains to be seen if Patala's powerful mages can make the difference. It's possible that damage has already been done though.

I also failed to kill Ethanim with my pretender, which I thought would be a cakewalk because the archdevil and my pretender had almost exactly same stats but I had significantly more HP and soul vortex on my combatant. All in all, I'd say Mictlan won the first round pretty clearly.

[Karlem]

Is Ixil coming for next round? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif

Good first round of combats, just a question, what had happened if I had found any of your Ranger squads patrolling last turns? You would have violated the NAP because that could have been easily considered and attack...

[Karlem]

Ah, and Zenzei, this is third round, first round was Arcos, second Patala and now third..... you took just 3 provinces from me, 2 were previously attacked by Patala. You also killed about 70 Patalan units http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif by error I assume http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif .

Let's see fourth round, but expect the unexpected http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif .

[Aezeal]

You should've taken a window on my battle with arco

Arco had only PD.. but major PD.. about 70 troops maybe

my lines.. whole back line filled with volva and galdermen
in front of them 3 large groups of melee troops (einheres and skinshifters)

my thuggish vanjarl bravely stands alone in front of my army farting in arco's general direction.

first turn: all lightning flashing above my armyfrom summon storm power. My troops appreciate th fireworks and are not scared by arco so they relax and enjoy it a bit.

his troop move forward, my army yawns

second turn: About 7 thunderstrikes decimate his army, the first soulslays seem uneffective
my troops see blood and move ahead.

my thug has buffed by now and is ready to move

his troops move further forward, my troops are laughing in disbelieve that they can be so stupid

Next turns: more thunder strikes, my thug kills every unit he meets the soulslays start to be effective too. When the largest (remaining) concentration of his troops meets my thug hy skinshifters are there also and his troops turn around and flee. My skinshifters are way faster though and so are soulslays and most troops die before they have fled.

[Zenzei]

what had happened if I had found any of your Ranger squads patrolling last turns? You would have violated the NAP because that could have been easily considered and attack...



I did thought about this too and I came to conclusion it was worth a bit of a risk(ranger attack didn't work out as well as I had planned though). And because you didn't find them out during the expiration period and I didn't attack with them until NAP had officially ended, you really can't say I broke the NAP, can you? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Personally I would find this kind of move a bit grey zone but definitely not a NAP breach because the notification had already been made. If you think this issue needs more conversation, I'm happy to talk it out.


you took just 3 provinces from me, 2 were previously attacked by Patala. You also killed about 70 Patalan units by error I assume

Yep, there was an unfortunate error.

[Aezeal]

stats seem to indicate ulm took patala provinces.. and patala lost a great many troops in this exchange http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

mictlan skyrockets in gem income though

[Karlem]

Technically I would have consider them breaking the NAP had I encounter them. We are "good ennemies" and I will not bother about it but just wanted to say it to you for future game. I usually consider anything other than a scout breaking a NAP.

Well, I consider you killing Patala troops a "fortunate error", do you mind? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

[Aezeal]

I just think it's funny, neither un- ot fortunate.

Does anyone mind..

If Arco has more nice high PD's then a few astral windows on our borders are adviced http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Karlem]

Just Patala missing. Ghill, come on, just do it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Karlem]

Ufff Zenzei.... did it hurt? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif

*******************
Borale. To one side mighty Ulm: 13 commanders, 150 units and 15 undead... The commanders are 4 mighty vampire counts, 4 black priests, 1 bane lord fully suited, the Ghoul Baron Ulrich and some more...

To the other side Bifrons.

- No one can harm the mighty devils, no one can damage the forces from frozen hell! You will all die! - said Bifrons
- He can bleed, he can die! - said Ulrich

The rangers of Ulm fired their crossbows, the mindless thralls advanced. Some Vampire counts send some minor imps and even Gravetongue, the bane lord arrivd to combat.

However Bifrons was ready. The Bane lord was quickly incapacitated and he was fast and his shield covered him nearly completely so the stings from the crosbows damaged more the thralls than him. His weapon answered his call and everytime someone died he captured his essence and instead of being damaged every minute it passed he was stronger!

The evil forces of Ulm send imaginary soldier, undead hordes and mighty warrior but he was unharmed. They were brave he killed ¡¡¡142!!! of them before they retreted but then ulmish forces noticed:

Sir!!! There is nowhere to retreat!!

And then they died

*******************

So I think I won round 2. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Aezeal]

Karlem how did you avoid getting killed there? Your opponent could tell us anyway so just tell us how Bofrons was outfitted and which spells he used.

Zenzei, same question for you about your banelord.

PS what stats should I be thinking of for both thugs?

[Ghill]

Well...this looks like the end for Patala.

Things I learned this game
-An SC is worth a significantly more expensive army if applied correctly.
-Demon Sc's are very popular (and powerful)
-All the good anti-demon spells are at research 6 or higher! (cleansing water being the one that would have helped me most.)
-Body guards are mandatory for all important non SC generals

I have only two regrets this game. That I didn't get to write a battle report (All of my combats were slaughters one way or another.) and that I got 'NAP trapped' (should have delcared war on mictlan when I ran out of room, he was so close to my capital anyway.).

[Karlem]

Well, Ghill, now that you are nearly out I wanted to tell you some things just for you to learn something additional.

1.- Elephants. At least I didn't see you using them at all during turns 1 to 20. They rock! 4-6 elephants are the indy killer army. Check it, it works incredibly well.
2.- Bless. Nearly any nation can use a bless but take a close look at your national mages: they are powerfull (for late age) they just need more armour, reinvigoration (go earth 9!!) and probably a frost brand to be thugs if you add:
3.- Alteration. Ironskin means prot 20, body ethereal and luck means they will only be damaged by 12,5% of the attacks and add regeneraton or awe and then they just skyrocket. For the cost of 1 shield (5 astral for lucky coin or 10 nature for eye shield) and 1 weaponf (5 water gems for frost brand) thy can kill most PD.
4.- PD is useless for late game. do i need to explain this? You had PD>25 in many sites. PD is only usefull to kill remote spells and to help you in key battles (for example against arcos I raised my PD, but onyl because I knew for sure that he was going to attack and that I needed more troops). Do not put PD just to use money.
5.- Spam temples isn't good. Do not put a temple in each province, becasue I will get for those 400g some troops and you will loose against my bigger army. Temples should be placed only to recuit priest for blesses or inside castle to recruit units if you aren't a dominion bases country (ermor, ryleh...)
6.- Extra forts are for extra mages. You build extra forts to build more mages to research more. Speacially if you have low cost sacred mages like the yogis or Gurus. You need magic 1 to have them skyrocket but please think about it.

Basicaly this is all, I stil have to chase you around but it will be quite hard for you to do big harm. It has been quite inteesting and you have fought well, but next time try to get evocation 4/5 (bladewinds/falling frost) and communions to cast them continuously.

[Karlem]

Aezeal, he just used body ethereal, luck and astral shield. Plus prto 20 (something) and an athame for partial drain life. That is what made him win the battle.

Oh, and of course, an eye shield so that bane lords are now renamed blind lords http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif

[Aezeal]

any nation with elephants should rush with them I think

[James243]

Now he tells me!

Anyone going to play in the mega sixty player game starting may 1? Sounds like a lot of fun!

[Karlem]

No, 60 players... that will probably be a mess, many people ealy leaving, so many rushers towards them and as a side effect different possibilities just based on turn 0 luck (position). I prefer more 'controlled' settings where the important thing is what I made.

[Zenzei]

Lol I certainly got beaten in Borale alright. However, I'm more inclined to say it's due to my and/or AI major screw up than Bifron's superiority. Here's my side of the story:

Ulm
- 100+ useless chaff units, mostly thralls, who had no purpose except to die at Bifron's feet and therefore buy some time.
- Bane Lord, who was equipped with fire brand/charcoal shield/fly boots/luck pendant, so he was hardly fully decked out as Karlem said. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
His function was to kill the PD Mictlan might have had in the province. Script was supposed to be hold x4->attack rear but I forgot to actually put those orders on him, which I think proved to be rather disasterous in the end.
- 4 black priest who were there to throw iron darts & iron blizzard in the case of PD.
- 1 vampire lord and 3 vampire counts, all scripted to cast leech, which is quite irresistable death sentence to lonely SCs. I also scripted a few hellbind hearts so I might get lucky and capture Mictlan's SC for myself. I didn't bring all those blood slaves to the battlefield for nothing. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif
All in all, I thought I had crafted a quite elaborate death trap for Bifrons from which there was to be no escape.

Then the battle started and soon everything would come crashing down, for me at least. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif
The battle went the way Karlem described but there are few details I wanted to add. My bane lord attacked Bifrons(there was no PD to fight with) immediately, instead of attacking on battle turn five, because of the wrong script I had on him. At this point I immediately knew my bane lord would die as he certainly wasn't same caliber as the ice devil. But this wasn't a big casualty for me because one can't make an omelette without breaking some eggs. My mages went next and along with them my plan was ruined as none of them casted the spells, except for Aim, I had scripted on them. So instead of leeches and hellbind hearts my mages throw totally useless stuff( against SCs that is) like raise dead, imps and rush of strenght! The battle goes on with Bifrons stuck in the corner killing my bane lord and soon to be there chaff and needless to say my mages continue act out of script casting Fail Spells(TM). At least they could have chosen to cast Life for a Life instead of raise dead, no? The battle continues like this until my forces finally rout and die because of my second epic failure of the turn: I forgot to send troops to keep the Jomon castle sieged so I would have had a province to retreat into in the case of rout. This rout part of the events isn't so critical though because Mictlan had Magoth attack the Jomon province also and my supposed keep-the-siege-on force wouldn't have stood a chance against him. I have watched the battle several times and the only reason for my mages total failure I could come up with is that the bane lord's too early attack kept Bifrons out of range for my scripted spells and therefore AI ignored my orders and proceeded to cast lame stuff instead of good stuff.

As it stands I'm ready concede to Mictlan and declare Karlem as the winner of VampireBat. How do you guys feel about this? If someone thinks he can still beat Mictlan we should continue the game but otherwise I think we should wrap it up and move on to other games and battles.

Me giving up against Karlem now may seem like surprise(or not) but I've good reason for it and I'll tell it(along som e other stuff) if we decide this game is over. If Karlem for some reason refuses my surrender, I'll do the motions required to postpone the inevitable by a couple of turns.

PS: I find it almost hilarious that such a simple thing as bane lord's orders have this kind of consequences for my play. Even more amusing though is the fact that for the second time in this game all my careful planning goes down the drain on the Fields of Borale. Province #60, I will officially hate you until the end of time and will pillage you in every game I will ever play from now on. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[James243]

As my capital lies in smoldering ruins, and Khan'Gar oft-dead having just died for a third time, I'm happy to declare Mictlan the winner.

With my new-found knowledge I'm keen to get started on a new game!

Highlights of the game so far (from my perspective):

1. Aezeal. I play various games from tabletop wargames to computer games to xbox live, and I don't think I've enjoyed playing against someone quite as much as I've enjoyed playing against Aezeal. The self-aggrandising humour in his posts, the (early) back and forth of our combats, his bold galderman, his invention of manticore steak - there have been many Aezeal highlights, and I look forward to locking manticore horns with him again soon.

2. Everyone's posts. Particularly the battle reports, but just the general chit-chat - i've learnt a ton. Next game I'll focus on developing my mages and on constructing items rather than just my haphazard 'huh, i have enough gems for hurricane...sweeeeet' strategy.

3. The sort of glorious tragedy of defeat. Khan'Gar now has three "Aezeal roolz" brand marks on his butt. My prophet managed to not die all game but that was mostly because she got freaked out by the hundreds of dying province defense in front of her. I don't think she really accomplished anything all game. Nor did Khan'Gar, aside from looking cool, and guaranteeing that my priestesses and sibyls were diverted from unimportant tasks like research and instead focused on calling out his name. But seriously, there's a certain pleasure to watching your once promising empire crumbling, scrambling your forces even though you know the odds are against you. I imagine this is something that gets old quick, but in my first game there's been a certain pleasure to it.

4. The gallipoli-like charge against Mictlan. The build-up was wonderful, declaring war and all that. A day at work looking forward to some slow-arse to take their turn so I could find out the result. And then the utter thrashing I received! Really thought that battle would be close, and it had to be because the huge army i'd been planning to weild against Aezeal got diverted. Luckily Khan'Gar had only just been recalled and wasn't close enough to get an "I love Karlem" brand...

5. Khan'Gar's heavy investment in a triton army, unaware of what the little shark icon on the tritons meant...

6. Khan'Gar's heavy investment in PD. Actually I hate to think how much I spent. Early on I did it because the manual suggested keeping a bit and I wasn't sure where my borders were. But I must've spent 10000 at least during the game (gulp).

There must be dozens more. Anyway, it's been fun. I'll play out a few more turns if folks like (I get the feeling that some would like to play this further), but I really think that blood rivers of Mictlan have it...

[Zenzei]

Anyone going to play in the mega sixty player game starting may 1?



I've been thinking about joining the new mega game, it indeed sounds like fun. I certainly don't expect to survive till the end in it but I'm sure game like that will be an educational experience anyway. Now that I think more about it, getting totally owned in middle game by some brilliant play would be kind of cool. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

In order to make sure I don't die too soon, I'll probably pick some good EA bless nation or make a tough SC pretender.

[Karlem]

Zenzei, it was a problem of range. If you expect to fight a SC the only solution I have found is to script things like this:

Aim, atackx2, Spell, Spell

This way the mage is nearer and maybe casts them, but of course you need to send some chaff to get arrows and such in case there are any with attack closest.

Regardign the surrender and declaring me winner I personally think that everybody must declare a winner, if just one other thinks that winning is possible then we should continue. I admit that I am in a very good position but Midgard can still do lots of harm and Marignon is there, preparing his movements!. Ulm is not won unless my unrest cap plan has worked better than expected, and you still have those SCs and Pretender.

Zenzei I think that unless you say everything that you have found (perhaps you were rushing to some magic level and found somebody was already there?) it will be hard to convice them.

I will continue playing until there is someone else that sends their turns http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif.

[Karlem]

Bane lords do not need head and chest armour (they come with them and quite good) so with just those 4 things I consider them fully decked, perhaps add an antimagic amulet? But that's the only modification I would do to your thug.

Well, There is another modification, I like etherealness, against PD it's wonderfull, so just puting an S1 mage near him scripted body ethereal makes wonders.

[Zenzei]

I personally think that everybody must declare a winner, if just one other thinks that winning is possible then we should continue.


Aye, I said this too in case you didn't notice. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
I hope other nations will say, Arco already did, if they still want to fight Mictlan so we know whether there's reason to keep playing or not. Personally, I don't think Midgård or Marignon can beat Mictlan by themselves but I wouldn't mind getting proved wrong. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I have two SCs, Buriel and Igarak, plus my pretender against your at least six SCs. I would say you have quite an advantege there. Combine that with the fact I just permanently lost all my vampires and I can't recruit anything due to unrest, I'd say my chances are pretty non-existent. I've some troops left but they are totally irrelevant against super combatants. My remaining mages might be able kill some of Karlem's SCs but catching a flying SC with slow moving mage force is extremely difficult. Simply put I lose more every turn than I'm able to take and that leads to defeat without exception.

[Zenzei]

Hehee, although I'm beaten for all intents and purposes, I'm itching to see the next turn for there will be a couple of battles I definitely want to see. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Karlem]

Where are you teleporting your Pretender? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif Will I guess?? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif

[Aezeal]

I'm declaring war on Karlem. I killed Kahn gar for the 3th time now. And I didn't expect you to kill them other 3that fast.
So prepare to die (:D) We will war in a 5 turns guess http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif


Battle report

Outside the walls of arco's capitol his pretender (didn't he have 4A4E once upon a time http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif and not 2A3E?) and the restof his army decide to meet my whole army on the field of battle.

Arc conviently didn't recruit elephants which might have been annoyin but decide to fiel 50000 PD, a dozen level 1 indie priests and a dozen healers (all of which had no real reason to be on this battlefield except to die --> my tip for next game.. don't take these units to a large battle) and (on a more serious note) some cerulean warrior and some of the lousiest summons around snake things, a scorpion thing and 5 fall bears.

Conviently his pretender couldn't fly due to a sudden storm (awwww where did that come from)

Thunderstrikes kept blasting his army (and probably killed mst of th 30 troops I lost) and paralyzes nd soulslays kept hittng the manticore (which didn't succub to these soulslays must be noted.) his mages kept cassting awesome spells like fireflies, vine arrows and magmaballs and soon some of my troops had to scratch themselves when the felt some itches of it.

Afte thunderstrikes had killed half of his troops and his charging summons had died in the first clash of weapons the manticore pretender, unable to fly decided to meet the sknshifters, which after 2 times dining on manticore steak got the hint andkilled him in 1 round of combat and gave his nice helmet to my commanders (after the 3th round of manticore steak). Most resistance was given by the 30 cerulean warrior.. but even they died when greeting the skinshifters

Nice try arco... but.. this defense wasn't all that.. lots of PD which died easily to thunderstrikes, lots of healrs and priests which don't belong in battle and your better mages only cast crap spells (only 1 blade wind???)
the ceruleans where a nice thought but you had to few and IMHO elephants might have caused some mayhem.. but then again soulslay miht have removed them fast too.
The gems spend onthose summons where a waste too IMHO.
--> just advice for next game.

KARLEM.... once you have taken out my armies you can claim victory. and I expect the rest to keep kicking him untill that has happened (which I'm pretty sure will happen)
--> I really thought Ulm and mictlan would bring eachother quite a bit down.. so I had some more timebefore I was forced to intervene. Now I'm probably too late... but then again with my NAP5 it was already to late when this started considering how overwhelming mictlans victories have been so far.

[Karlem]

4 to 1? This will be hard to win.

I haven't taken any new fort yet and now another one joins the war...

Well Aezeal, Our war will be quite bloody, we have a very big border. It will be fun..... well, probably not, but I'll try it.

At least I have 5 turns to get ready.

[Aezeal]

lol you have way more army than me and I don't have any SC only 2 weak thugs

PS James could have had his pretender still if he'd answered my messages.. I wanted to peace with him so he could send those 200 pplz to mictlan.. but he refused to answer... so next 5 turns will be spend by taking his lands finding a new border for my troops to invade mictlan

[Karlem]

Yes, I have more army than you, but this army is in Patala and Ulm, not in the other side of the river.... And I need it against them yet.

But well, I'll try to recruit some guys http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[James243]

Aezeal sorry, I check this forum on my blackberry. And I agree with your comments on my useless mages - something I've learnt this game.

[Karlem]

James, just next time try to make a reverse comunion with 2-4 slaves with earth 1 and 1 master with earth too. Research Conjuration 3, Taumatugy 1 Evocation 4, and do the following:

Master: comunion master, summon earthpower, power of the spheres, hold hold cast spells
Slave: comunion slave hold hold bladewin baldewind stay behind

With 4 slaves that is 8 bladewinds and then 1 each turn... and as they begin in turn 4 they will be in rannge.

[Zenzei]

Add in one of those healers(equipped with crystal matrix) Arco has.
Script: Eagle eyes, spells.
This way your blade winds have vastly better accuracy.

If you're against troops with shields or have prot 15+, blade wind is useless. In this case go with falling fires or somesuch instead.

[Karlem]

Aezeal had skishifters so... well, bladewind makes wonders against them http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Aezeal]

hmm I had einheres in front mostly though http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Zenzei]

It most certainly does. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
I just said that thing about shields/good prot because I didn't know against whom this communion was supposed to be used.

----

Karlem, you ain't going to capture any of my forts that easily. The party would have been better if you hadn't moved Magoth away though. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Aezeal]

Marignon can you help with our battle against mictlan?
(has anyone send ingame messages to marignon already he doesn't post that much, maybe not reads as much too?)

[Aezeal]

PS if you really want me to try and kill those demons I need some weapons.. I can pay in death gems for example.. can someone forge me some weapons and send them? (we can talk about it if needed)

[Karlem]

Zenzei, It was your clear movement, you needed to get that fort back but I didn't know your plan so keeping Magoth there was a too high risk. It turned well... for you http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif . Fantastic battle btw, incredible use of stellar cascades and communions.

[Aezeal]

ok this gotta stop " Fantastic battle btw, incredible use of stellar cascades and communions. "

that will not do.. MORE explanation.. this is a newb game and I need to learn here

who fought what and how where communions and cascafes used?

[Karlem]

Make a SP game, take 10 S1 guys, put them on a reverse comunion, spam stellar cascades, see effect http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif.

First time I see them, incredible effect.

Add a B1 guy to remove fatigue on turn 5.

Combo!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Ask Zenzei for more details http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Zenzei]

I suppose sharing the details about the communion I used harms nobody, so here it goes(a slightly improved version):

Slaves x14 (all S1 mages): Communion Slave, Twist Fate, Stellar Cascades x3, Spells
Master #1 (S1E1): Communion Master, Summon Earthpower, Personal Luck, Gifts From the Heavens x2, Spells
Master #2 (S1): Communion Master, Light of the North Star, Enslave Mind x3, Spells
Master #3 (S2B1): Communion Master, Power of the Spheres, Reinvigoration, Life for a Life(if expecting to fight SC), Reinvigoration, Spells
Sit back and enjoy the show.

Remember to add in a bit of chaff to slow down the enemy for a turn or two so you get the communion online. I had my pretender there to play the slow down part because I was really short on troops.

There you have it in its full glory. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
The really nice thing in this particular communion was that I got some real firepower out of those otherwise useless S1 mages who normally just sit in the lab doing research.

[Aezeal]

stellar cascades isn't that good is it? fatigue damage?

[Rathar]

Fatigue is really deadly. I forget the exact points where you lose xyz ability but essentially you lose your ability to defend against attacks. 50 or so fatigue and you are likely dead.

Many times I have used swarms of chaff to wear down high defense/protection units. Those reinvigoration items are very handy as I have recently learned.

[Ghill]

Wow, I accidentally sent in my OLD 2h file and staled my great attack!

Question: Reverse communion, how is that different from a normal communion? Shouldn't all that fatigue from all those spells wear down your casters (because it is shared)?

[Karlem]

Reverse comunion uses the fact that caster cast following their placement in the army setup page. So if you cast comunion slave but casta every turn before the master you will be able to cast.

The idea is using boosters, phoenix power, summon earthpower, light of northern star, astral power... so that slaves (the majority) can now cast better spells instead of S1 crap. Of course, you have to be carefull so that mages do not die of fatigue and it's quite risky if you set it up incorrectly.

[James243]

Ok guys, I used to play a lot of Warcraft 3 and once the game was beyond doubt it was customary to simply say 'gg' and resign. (I got a lot of practice at that...:))

In this game I've been hanging around because it's multiplayer and I even though my own fate is beyond doubt, I may play some small role, and I wouldn't want my resignation to affect the outcome.

However, I think we're at the point where that won't happen. I'll certainly stick around if people would prefer, but does anyone mind if I become AI controlled? Aezeal will take my last fort in 2 turns and then I'll just consist of a bunch of 2 resource sea provinces are aren't even worth him taking.

This game has been an awful lot of fun! Like I say, I want to do the right thing, and I can continue just taking my turns but I'd much rather start turning my attention towards the new games that are starting up.

PS: Karlem - thanks so much for the tips - exactly what I needed!

[Zenzei]

There's nothing wrong going AI when you think there's nothing left that's worth captaining. After all, just pressing end turn isn't very fun.

If you're going now, I thank you for taking part this most excellent game we have had here.

PS: See you in Kingmaker http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Karlem]

I agree. Go AI, no problem.

I also played WC3 a lot http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I'm glad it helped you. See you next time. Good luck on that new game!

[Zenzei]

A quick report from the trenches

Ulm continues to pester Mictlan as this turn I killed the ice devil Nycafor(he folded pretty easily to communion-powered paralyze+soul slay). In addition to that joyous victory I managed to feeblemind the ice devil Gaap, which means he will be easy pickings whenever I manage to fight him again.

Otherwise it was the usual take some provinces/lose some provinces. Oh, let's not forget our monthly toad monsoon, which rained into every fort I have as usual. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[James243]

Thanks guys - gg! See you around no doubt!

PS: who wants to take over the admin? or do you just want me to post the password? I think the only action left to do is to declare the game over at some point. With 48 hour hosting delays are rare.

[Aezeal]

Good luck James, you have been a great enemy. I might show up in kingmaker too http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Aezeal]

Can someone wiht acces to watermagic forge me demonbanes?

[Karlem]

Yes, of course, how many do you want? I'll send them to you by personal delivery http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif

[Aezeal]

how much demons do you have http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Ghill]

Yeah...I'm gonna follow james243 out of this game, I litterally have ONE unit left. or... I FORGOT ABOUT MY... I failed strategy school...

Anyway, I declared my final move and am gonna drop out now. Good Game.

[Aezeal]

Marignon.. help us against the usurper

[Aezeal]

advance the game, no need to wait for patala

[Karlem]

James was the administrator, isn't it? We need a new one. Are you interested Aezeal?

[Aezeal]

yeah I guess

[Karlem]

So, James/Llamabeast, can you give Aezeal the admin password?

[Zenzei]

Depending on Mictlan's interest to attack my capital, Ulm will be gone or put AI in the near future. I'll make a last stand with my remaining troops when the time comes of course.

[Aezeal]

put up a fight dammit http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Zenzei]

Ha! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
I believe I have put up a good fight, after the initial shock of losing all my vampires due to my scripting failure, and I ain't done yet. Mictlan simply had too much stuff to begin with in this war so Karlem was able to attack on many more provinces than I could reasonably defend, let alone make effective offensive attacks.

[Karlem]

He has tried his best Aezeal, but I used dirty tactics http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif.

Stoping my demons is not easy at all, I think you'll notice quite soon http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif (I hope http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif ).

[Aezeal]

yeah we'll see

what else do you have besides the demons?? (zenzei can answer too)

I do have some options of stopping them but not that much

[Karlem]

Aezeal, do you have the masater password?

Ghill, can you set yourself to AI? (Instead of just stalling)

[Aezeal]

I have the password, can I set him to AI?

But if you do your turn I can just advance to the next turn too

[Karlem]

Aezeal, can you run the turn now? I think that Ghill should be set AI too, what do you think?

[Aezeal]

I an't set him on AI though http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Aezeal]

hmm I fear that this didn't go too well...

next turn will be deciding.. if it goes bad I'll forfeit the game to Karlem.. if it goes a lil better I'll try a bit longer.. but those devils.. it's hard beating them

I even faced one 2x last turn.. damn biffrons.. why does MY SC with eye shield loose 2 eyes to your eyeshield(GODDAMMIT MY ONLY SC) and your devil is unhurt

[Karlem]

The empty slot of the Air Queen should have been a Magic resistance amulet.

The eye shield works like this:

1.- Attacker thorws 2d6. Adds it MR.
2.- Defender throws 2d6 adds 10.

If attacker looses it losses an eye. So with MR18 attacker will loose once each 20 turn or so (guesstimate). With MR22 defender has 2,5% of getting a 12 in 2d6 and then has to win in second roll (it's open ended) against attacked 2d6 so a total of 1,25%. So in 50 turns with MR 22 attacker will loose one eye 50% of the times (aprox).

It's basically the same with everything that's why you couldn't paralyze Byfrons (that has MR24). I knew you had volvas there so uped his MR as much as reasonably possible.

[Zenzei]

Karlem, could you please attack my capitol already so I could get over with this game? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Aezeal]

Karlem.... stop stalling play your turn http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Karlem]

Ok, just run it now Aezeal.

Zenzei, I'm sorry but I will attack the capital when it's the moment, perhaps this turn, perhaps next http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif You have many things there and it's not so easy to take it. If you consider that the game isn't interesting you could go AI http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif.

Aezeal, good luck in next turn battle, are you prepared? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

BTW, sorry for the delays and so, but making my turn is not 5 minutes. Next game I will think it twice before taking a blood nation http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif.

[Zenzei]

Heh, no way I'm going AI before the last big fight!

[Karlem]

Then just be patient... or not http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif

[Aezeal]

well the devils are what keeps you strong atm http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Aezeal]

Damn luck for your whole army

Anyway.. turn didn't go that well

I quit, Karlem has won.

[Aezeal]

Twas a nice game IMHO, diplomacy went very well for me last half of the age.. everyone did what I wanted them to do.. to bad Karlem was so strong already. My starting battle with pythium and later arco and the fact I was a bit boxed in slowed me to much down. I didn't realize it then but I was behind in research and combat magician and forgers etc. My magic researched look reasonable but that was only because then I hardly had mages in the field and hardly anything forged or summoned.

Those fully kitted devil where way to much for me. Together with some nice high level spells..

GG Karlem

[Aezeal]

Personally I'm in need for a new game now.. I really liked our group, well the ones I interacted with at least (no offence to the rest but I can't really judge it)

I'd like to play a MA game with some of you.. anyone interested? then we could ask lama to set something up and find a few others

James? Karlem? Zenzei? and the one who played Jomon?

[James243]

Hi Aezeal,

I'd be interested, except that I'm in 2 games already. And that's probably stretching it. But one of those is the megagame so i'll probably be gone in 5 turns or so... At any rate, lets definitely get in on a game soon http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif - keep in touch!

James.

[Karlem]

Well Aezeal, it has been an interesting game. Now that I have tartarians you surrender http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif.

I supposed that you expected that batte to go better, but I was quite confident on the sword of augelmar. As you noticed full battlefield luck is a litle bit imba, and as my pretender was already cursed (last spell of Pythium) I didn't loose anything http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

Only Marignon hasn't declared himself so I will continue to play the game until everyone concedes. Please be patient as it will take me eons to get all the world.

I am interested in a medium level (no newbie, no mega expert) MA game. If you set it up count me in.

[seda]

i concede too good game karlem

[Aezeal]

you have tartarians too??? What magic have you researched I didn't think I was that much behind but I'm no where near real high level magic.

[Aezeal]

hmm I asked llama if he could set one up, I don't think he'll refuse. I guess we'll just make it an open game (not experience requirements) for a medium number of pplz 8-12 I guess.

I asked llama if he had a nice map to use.

We'll see what he says.

I'll be pythium btw http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Karlem]

Yes I have tartarians, well, one tartarian right now, one each turn from now on http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif. Chalice to heal feeblemind from them and N4 mage to GOR. full pack http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

I have researched: Conj9, Alt4, Evo5, Const8, Ench4, Tau4, Blo7.

First I raced to Cons4, then after Tau2, Evo2, Conj 2 for site search Blood 6 and Alt 3. Afterwards rush for Const 8 for artifacts (chalice, sword, and some others) and then before the attack to Patala just Evo 5 and the others to get some flavour Battle Magic while going to Conj9 for Tartarians.

I got the national hero to summon them with death3 artifact to power him to 7 (and skull cap).

So Zenzei, please confirm and we close it. BTW how do we close it? Is there an admin option?

[Aezeal]

no idea I'll look when I wake up

[Zenzei]

Whoa, looks like a lot has happened since I last checked this thread(which wasn't long time ago).

Congrats to Karlem for the victory, well played all around (except for one little thing that really bugged me*). /threads/images/Graemlins/icon44.gif

Too bad I didn't get to go away with a bang as I had planned quite an epic communion for my capital's last stand, provided Mictlan had actually attacked before all my forces deserted because of my lack of gold. I'm pretty damn sure I would have won that fight. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Aezeal: If you set up a new game, I may join in but can't make any promises because I'm already in 2 games and Kingmaker starts soon too.

If anyone cares, I had conj 6/alt 6/evo 7/const 6/ench 3/thaum 7/blood 8 researched in this game and my great master plan was to put up astral corruption and burden of time on the same turn, which would have won the game for me pretty fast I think. This didn't work out because Mictlan grew too strong/fast in the mid game and I had to start making preparations for war against Karlem, obviously I didn't prepare well enough.

*Karlem, I really wondered the gear selection of your ice/arch devils as I think they weren't exactly optimal considering your available resources and forgers or did you just get lazy in equipping the devils because you had so many of them. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Aezeal]

well what I saw of them was pretty decent
-frostbrand
-eyeshield
-ring of regen
-amulet of antimagic
-firehelmet
-some piece of armour

[Karlem]

Zenzei, could you please elaborate a little bit your post? I mean, what would you recomend to improve?

Just take into account that I have no earth mages and just one air mage.

Ice devils are by themselves quite hot against you because you had cold 3 dominion and they increase protection in cold so they could have prot 30 with just that, adding a tueky to body ethereal they were near invulnerable.

So please recommend me a different setup.

BTW I do not like hydra armours http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif. I know you like them a lot but they have prot 11 versus the other one's 15 and and put thems below the 'magic prot 20' that is what I consider a safe number. I had a limited ammount of nature/water gems (I used them mostly for my clams) at the beggining and was hoarding death gems for the Sceptre of Dark Regency (D5=40 gems).

[Karlem]

BTW regarding your last stand: I was going to soften you up a bit more and then have a go. My plan was to use howl multiple times (x6) so that you were attacked from behind since turn 1, a comunion for solar rays, many fliers and some BF enchants. That with the luck for entire battlefield should have give me an opportunity. Specially If I waited a little more (2 turns) before the attack.

[Zenzei]

Put myself AI this turn, I forgot to do it when I surrendered to Mictlan. Midgård is also still controlled by human, is Aezeal still playing? If not, he should go AI too so this game would actually end and Karlem wouldn't have fight nonresponsive opponents.

@Karlem, here's some late replies since I haven't been watching this thread for some time:


Zenzei, could you please elaborate a little bit your post? I mean, what would you recomend to improve?


Well, from what I saw you had neglected MR almost completely on your devil SCs. MR 18 way too low and had I realized this weakness early on my battle strategy against you would have been quite different. Remember that during my last turns I managed to kill both Nycafor and Ethanim very easily(at almost zero resource cost for myself) when I attacked their low MR. Personally, I consider MR 22 to be an absolute minumum for any kind of SC or heavily invested thug.

The second thing I considered to be sub-optimal was your armor selection(which was mostly dragon mails) combined with ring of regen. The same result and more would have been achieved with one Hydra Skin Armor (at half the gem cost and one less item slot spent). The few points of protection you lose with hydra skin are totally irrelevant when compared to the benefits imo. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif


So please recommend me a different setup.


It's obviously hard/impossible to give a catch all gear setup but for Magoth/Bifrons who are easily the best devil SCs my equipment selection would be like this:
-fire, frost or shadow brand
-lucky coin
-spirit or horror helmet
-hydra skin armor
-boots of quickness(Magoth) or messenger boots(biffrons)
-amulet of antimagic and amulet of reinvigoration

For more generic devil SC, say Oriax, I might give:
-fire, frost or shadow brand
-lucky coin or shield of gleaming gold
-spirit or horror helmet
-hydra skin armor or rainbow armor(MR!)
-messenger boots or boots of flying(if I needed him to be very mobile)
-amulet of antimagic and pendant of luck


regarding your last stand


Heh, the centerpiece of my plan was to totally blast the battlefield by casting fire storm + wrathful skies(combined with storm of course) via big reverse communion while making all my own mages immune to both respective damage types. Once the BEs would have been online my communion would have spammed astral spells and some gifts from heavens + falling fires. Reinvigoration would have been included of course.

BTW, what was your average blood slave income per turn? Also, how did you feel about the effectiveness of clamming, was it worth it or was the benefit coming too slowly?
I'm curious because when I do some clam hoarding it feels very wasteful without massive forge bonuses.

[Karlem]

Well, I do not like hydra armour, puts the SC too low in prto and I lilke to have innate prto of at least 20.

and about MR, I had just 2 SCs out of 7 with MR18, and one was because you feebleminded it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

Couldn't forge spirit helmet and horror helmet uses death gems so.. or them or Tartarians http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif.

But overall I agree with you.

I had BF antimagic and BF luck so your plan was going to have some problems http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif. Also some flyers to bypass walls and attack the mages and my own comunion to do some nasty things so it would have been quite balanced and I think jaguars would prove its value over skellies and wolves. But who knows http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

I had about 100 slaves turn and the centerpiece of my plan that I have not said until now is.... a 40% BLOOD REDUCTION SITE! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif. I had found that site since early game and that allowed me to put big amounts of blood rituals for low cost http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif