Global War (use new thread pls)

[Foodstamp]

Welcome aboard Sicaire! Be sure to read over the original post concerning the rules for the nations, particularly the evil nations. BTW, you mention a few games behind you. I noticed you signed up for the forums today, how were you finding games before that?

[Sicaire]

this being said, i've made a few tentative tries to upload my pretender to no avail... i've got global.dm and cb 1.21 enabled, a proud MA Ctis pretender but connection just doesn't happen... any clue? I've checked my firewall and router but I'm struggling with a new vista pc so i may have smthing wrong

[Sicaire]

I'm a friend of Kheldron: we arranged 3 mp games w 6-10 players each during the past 12 months, 2 turns a week. those were pbem games w friends so we did not feel the need to come to the forums for games until recently.

[Sicaire]

Post deleted by Sicaire

[Sicaire]

I've been through the whole post yes, no diplo, just fair trade w neutrals, kill all good, backstab my secret ennemy.

[Foodstamp]

Sicaire,

The server is down temporarily. The host will be out of town until tomorrow or Thursday. Once he is back he will restart the server and you should be able to upload your pretender. I will send your secret enemy to you as soon as CU confirms that it is ok for you to be our replacement.

[moderation]

Hrm, tried the server and it is down. I'll try uploading my pretender again tomorrow.

[CUnknown]

Hi, I am back!

I need to read the current posts when I am less tired, but for now, the server is back up.

[CUnknown]

Just one thing about Evil's objectives, they have to kill all Neutrals as well before they can win. Although they may wish to save the Neutrals until the end.

So, we have C'tis back? I don't want to start the game unless people are fairly certain that it is more or less balanced.. do people think Good is too powerful? We can do something to change that..

I mean, I don't think we will know who has the advantage until we've played it through at least once, but if everyone is pretty convinced that Good has an advantage, maybe we should modify the conditions slightly. Or was this concern only because Ctis might not have been replaced?

[quantum_mechani]

I think we got a new C'tis player. I say we just start as soon as possible, I think three neutrals should hopefully be able to balance things out if one side is really rampaging.

[Sicaire]

my pretender for MA Ctis is uploaded.

[Folket]

Can someone update the first post with to example IP and Port?

[CUnknown]

I have updated the first post with links to the mods and server information.

[Sicaire]

hmm I've had a change of mind about my pretender but when i try to connect to the server the game just hangs, any clue why is that?

[Tuidjy]

My PC hangs as well.

[Rathar]

Same problem here. Always glad it's not just me when these things happen!

[CUnknown]

Someone pressed 'start game' after they uploaded their pretenders.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif

I don't think there is any way to recover that. I think we all have to upload our gods again.

Server is going down and coming back up shortly. Please re-upload and -do not press start game-, just exit the program.

[Foodstamp]

Be sure to add this switch to prevent that in the future:

--noclientstart

[DonCorazon]

i went to upload and only saw eriu, not tir na nog

[Sicaire]

btw I am the one who messed up I apologize for that to all players: I was trying to hit the cancel button at the bottom of the select nation screen but weirdly it kept going to top of the page so I hit the wrong one and game hanged so I couldn't tell what happened...
Now seeing DonCorazon post I fear the Early & Late Ages pretenders were not uploaded properly and choice is restricted to MA nation, I fear our host has to start the game again.
Sorry again folks

[AlgaeNymph]

I tried connecting to the network, but the program stalled on "Loading Game."

[CUnknown]

It should be back up now, DryaUnda.

[Rathar]

I just tried to upload and while there is an option for Ermor there is none for LA Ermor and when I click on Ermor it says I have no god for that nation which I know I do indeed have.

Hmm?

Setting these things up is such fun no?!

[Fal]

same here, no EA lanka...

[Tuidjy]

Well, mod games are notoriously hard to start. No one should feel bad about it.
And no, I was not annoyed because of the MoD controversy. Speaking of which,
can we ban MoD outright? I doubt it will make much of a difference with our
settings, and Pythium is one of the nations best suited to abuse it, but I am
trying to make it a standard. :-)

[Folket]

I agree. Someone should make a no MoD mod.

[otthegreat]

No LA Ulm. Is all this trouble really worth it? I've only played PBEM and that seems to work fine. What is the advantage of using a server?

[Rathar]

The advantage is about 20 mouse clicks less per turn http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

The problem is mixing up all the eras and not so much the method of play.

[Sicaire]

I have a single age pbem game going on w friends and it was easy to set up: I just edited the singleage.dm file to take into account the latest nations because it's not up to date, but why aren't we using this instead of global.dm?

[CUnknown]

I can try setting up the server again to see if that will help.

Sometimes with this mod I have noticed it helps to start a single-player game first with the mods enabled. That helps the mod activate or something. Then try to log on to the server.

It was working just a while ago.. I am confused.

One thing I did was to just use the same folder as the first time and just start the server again. So people who had previously uploaded their gods probably don't have to do so again.

I think we just need those who didn't upload their gods to do it, and then we can start.

[Fal]

who clicked start game?? as a penalty he should give everyone 20 pretender design points!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Rathar]

No worries CUnknown. It's just the good magician Murphy getting his say in. We will get there.

[CUnknown]

Looking at the server, the following players have loaded up their gods:

Tuidjy - MA Pythium
Ylvali - EA Sauromatia
CUnknown - MA Ulm
Marignon - who is this?? should I set Marignon to 'closed?'
Hoplosternum - MA Tien Chi
DryaUnda - MA Machaka
Kheldron - MA Pangea
Sicaire - MA C'tis
Cerlin - MA Abysia
Folket - MA Bandar Log
Shinuyama - who is this??
IndyPendant - MA Ryleh
Rathar - LA Ermor
Fal - EA Lanka
Randvek LA Mictlan
otthegreat LA Ulm

The following players have not loaded up their gods:
DonCorazon - EA Tir Na Nog
Moderation - LA Arcosephale
QM (undecided on faction)

QM which one are you?

So, we are just waiting on two people I think. Qm is probably either Marignon or Shinuyama.

[quantum_mechani]

I uploaded Shinuyama before the server was restarted, but I haven't uploaded again. So I'm not sure what the pretender is doing there, is someone else switching nations?

[CUnknown]

I re-used the old folder for the game.. it should contain everyone's pretender's they previously uploaded. That's okay to do, right?

[IndyPendant]

If/when we finally do begin, could we please start on a 48-hour timer? My business trip starts tomorrow, and while the turns will go very quickly when I do have internet access, I cannot guarantee I will consistently.

Keep quickhost on though; I will keep the turns churning as fast as I can. ; )

And I'll let you know when I've returned and I can safely go back to a 24-hour schedule.

[DonCorazon]

FYI I have tried a couple times to upload my pretender.

My latest effort was last night and I did not see Tir Na Nog listed as a possible nation - I did see MA Eriu so not sure if that was a mistake.

I will try again tonight.

No complaints - just don't want you to think I am holding things back through my laziness (which in many things in life, is quite likely) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[DonCorazon]

TNN is locked and loaded!

[Randvek]

Can't upload Mictlan.

If things don't get simpler soon, I may drop out, sorry to say. This is just ridiculous.

[quantum_mechani]

I'm not even sure why it was necessary to have all ages, that is really what is causing the problems.

[moderation]

I'm uploaded. Seems good to go.

[DonCorazon]

quantum_mechani said:
I'm not even sure why it was necessary to have all ages, that is really what is causing the problems.



I agree, I took an EA nation because the game was advertised as all nations, but given how many people went with MA would have been easier just to go 100% MA.

[Rathar]

I would guess that because in theory it Should be simple to work this out. In Theory. But then no one has really gone this exact route yet so therefore quantum physics gets to butt in and rear it's ugly head.

Frankly if you haven't the patience to deal with the problems that WILL occur in these sorts of setups why are you even interested in playing an experimental game?

Ohnoe a whole week of my life wasted waiting for a GAME (that someone else is doing the hard work to provide for you) to start.

Get over it. And I do mean it in the nicest of ways. Really. Just forcefully making my point due to the 3:30 am and the beer!

[Foodstamp]

It's like this game was set up at the h-bar http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[CUnknown]

Randvek - LA Mictlan is already uploaded. Don't worry! We are all good now. Everyone is uploaded.

I didn't realize that the all-age thing would cause such problems. If I did, we wouldn't have done it! I just didn't know and it sounded fun and easy.

But, we are all done with the hard part now (crosses fingers), and on to the fun part!

Well, actually, I have to set up the map, I will do that tonight. Then we can start. I will start another thread for the actual game.

[Tuidjy]

Keep your fingers crossed that the starting positions work out all right.
I have started on an island before... Land nation, no land neighbors.

[Drake49]

I'd like to add, again, that I think the suggestion made by another player that the top two, by province count, evil players should win even if their secret enemy is still alive if Good and Neutral are defeated is a very good idea. It will insure a prompt end to the game, if good is nearly beaten.

I also think adding another evil player is a good idea to even things out. I'm sure you could find one fairly quickly.

[CUnknown]

Let's say the one evil top dog will win even if his secret enemy is not defeated. The main evil force can probably make his secret enemy a slave vassal anyway.

And also remember that you don't have to actually destroy your secret enemy, only ensure that his/her capital is captured (by anyone, not necessarily you) or that their god is dead at the time of the Ascension. Slightly easier conditions for Evil than complete destruction of the secret enemy.

Edit: One more thing, if the Neutral races are getting iron mines in their capitals, does that mean that their starting positions need to be fixed beforehand as well?

Do the Neutrals need iron mines? We are playing at +25% resources, after all. I'd rather the Neutral starting provinces be random. The Neutrals will get 1500 gold and 10 gems of every type to start.

[Kheldron]

Noob question : how do you mod 1500 gold and 10 gems of each type for a nation ?
I can't find anything on that in the map and mod .pdf, or in the manual...

It would be fine if I could do some tests ^^

[CUnknown]

Crap.. I have never done this before. I was assuming it was relatively easy (which was a mistake!). There aren't any mod commands for it?

[Foodstamp]

Nope.

[Tuidjy]

You can mod the nation's starting sites, can't you? I.e. if you want to give Ulm
an extra 100 resources, you mod the Forges of Ulm.

[Rathar]

Huh that would be a bit odd if you couldn't somehow as I know you can give specific spells, magic items and units

[CUnknown]

Aha, Tuidjy is smart. I will mod the three Neutrals so that their starting site has +50 resources, +30 gold per turn, and +1 astral pearls per turn.

After 50 turns, they would get 50 astral pearls and 1500 gold from this bonus. Not quite the same bonus as they were supposed to get, but it should help them out.

However, the problem being, that anyone who conquers a Neutral will be able to get this bonus.

Any suggestions as to what we should do?

[Rathar]

I think this is a good way of trying to achieve your original intent but with resources already at 125% I don't think that boosting them matters much.

I would at least double the gold and gems however.

Thats my 2 cents anyways.

[Hoplosternum]

The neutrals have an uphill task in this game. I'd be inclined to be generous to them.

An extra capital is always a nice boost anyway. So making these even nicer won't make them much more of a target than they already are.

Also extra gold income is likely to matter more in the early stages than extra gems and so I'd increase that by more than +30. Something like +100. Once they are up to a dozen provinces it won't be that noticable.

And its still a lot worse than what you wanted to give them. They are meant to be getting off to a flyer not be slightly better off by turn 50!

Maybe even +100 is too mean. As you know the gem incomes of the neutral nations perhaps some extra gems of those they don't have naturally will give them something to trade as an extra boost.

Like Rather says resources are the least important thing.

[moderation]

Have the mod settings changed? I uploaded my pretender yesterday, but there is no longer a LA Arcos spot, but only an generic Arcosophale spot which doesn't seem to accept my current pretender created with global.dm + CBM.

[CUnknown]

moderation - everyone is loaded up. I'm not sure why people are having trouble seeing their race all of a sudden. The mod settings have not changed.

Well, I have figured out how to set all the good races to specific start sites. Here are the Good starting sites: 25, 71, 122, 85, and 43. I rolled randomly as to which Good race would start on which site. All that is taken care of.

What I have not figured out is how to mod certain sites to let the Neutrals get extra gold and gem incomes. In fact, I'm not sure that is possible to do from the map file. We might have to mod the actual mod we are using, in which case, everyone would have to re-submit their pretenders.

We'd have to decide if it was worth it for the Neutrals to have extra help, to go through the whole upload god thing again.

Does anyone proficient in modding have any suggestions here? It seems impossible to mod sites from my perspective (from the map file, anyway).

[moderation]

Hmm, I suppose if I am loaded in it is not a problem. I cannot see my nation, but if the game can start, I suppose it is not a problem. Perhaps it has something to do with the global.dm mod?

[Rathar]

Instead of changing sites can you just add new ones?

[Kheldron]

I'm not sure if giving a better starting site would be such a good idea.
I mean, if I knew a certain nation had a capital so very plentiful, I would do anything to rush and plunder it, postponing any other feud.
In the case of a game where there are basically 2 groups with neutrals standing alone in between...IMHO as well give a treasure map to everybody and press the "rush & gang el dorado" button.

If the idea behind giving more money and gems to neutrals was giving them a fair start and detering an early rush, give neutrals a band of starting heroes (buyable or national) and equip them with gems or gemproducing items. That would be a good equivalent to +1200 gold and 10 gems of each type imho.
I'd let our moderator decide which heroes and items for that matter.

But since I've never tried anything remotely comparable, that may just be a stupid idea http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/redface.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Zeldor]

moderation:

Didn't you have to take MA Arco? I think MA is better anyway in terms of mages [higher astral and natural mind hunters without boosters].

[Hoplosternum]

Kheldron said:
I'm not sure if giving a better starting site would be such a good idea.
I mean, if I knew a certain nation had a capital so very plentiful, I would do anything to rush and plunder it, postponing any other feud.
In the case of a game where there are basically 2 groups with neutrals standing alone in between...IMHO as well give a treasure map to everybody and press the "rush & gang el dorado" button.





While this is a danger I don't think it's that much of one. If you consider an average Capital is worth roughly 400 gpt, has average 5 gem income and has a Fort & a lab. All that is being considered is adding an extra 100 +/- a gpt an and extra 2-3 gems per turn.

Quite frankly if you can rush any capital you should. Many peoples strategies will be about doing just that.

The neutrals were told they would get a better starting position. I think giving them at least 100gpt extra plus some extra gems would help do this. They would be boosted against a rush.

I am not sure what can be done without modding their nations - which may not be possible at this point - to give them extra stuff at their starting locations. This would also be needed to give them extra / better starting heroes. Which would have ben a great idea.

If you can still add sites to their starting locations I would do so. This is what I suggest (from the Dom3 database):

For R'yleh: 2 sites already taken
Add a Gold mine (60gpt) site num: 66
Add a Long Lost Circle (1E,1N) site num: 557
-- Less worried about R'yleh due to being the only underwater nation. Both sites are or can be underwater I think and 60 is the most gold that can assuming 'cave' is above water (??) LLC is for Deep Sea but I assume thats where R'yleh starts? You may be able to place locations anywhere regardless of their 'mask' but I'm not sure.

Shinuyama: 1 site already
Add a Great Gold mine (100gpt): site num: 253
Add a Totem Collection (1S, 1N): site num: 301
Add an Enchanted Windmill (1A): site num: 572
Pangea: 2 sites already
Add a Great Gold mine (100gpt): site num: 253
Add a Runaway pit (1E,2S): site num: 274

The Great Gold Mines are 'Mountain' but give the 100 gold in one site. I suspect you can place these anywhere (so you could give this to R'yleh as well) and the location is where they are checked for randomly (???). But I have not done enough modding to know.

Hopefully you can just add these to the map without needing to mod any nations. It fills up the slots for their capitals, so no nice random event finds there, but I think they would rather have them than not http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Anyway I don't think these extra sites will make the capital that much more valuable. Capitals simply are very valuable at the beginning. By mid game the number of territories and quality and quality of site finds will far out weigh these start bonuses. The gems are none - core gems for the Neutrals so will help with trading or diversifying rather than boosting their initial strength. But 100 extra gpt will help stop rushes against them.

[Ylvali]

I would like to change my pretender. I realized I mad a big mistake in the design. Usually uou just connect to the server and re-up him. But when I do that Sauromatia is no longer visible. Can I mail him to CUnknown?

I´d like to do this right away if possible. New design is ready and all.

Edit: from what I can deduce, all non MA nations disappeared. My best guess would be inconsistency in the global mod. Has it perhaps been changed since we downloaded it? I guess if the mod on the server and the one on our computer differ in any way that would prevent our puters from recognizing/using it and thus showing us a unmodded MA list of nations.

[Foodstamp]

There is no inconsistency in the global.dm. It literally just contains about a dozen lines of code to move nations to the middle age.

The issue is with the way the game handles the mod. It only recognizes the mod sometimes, and it is hard to select nations beyond the defaults because the way it tries to scroll back up. It would and has done this with any mod that moved the nations. The reason this mod was made was to make it easier to scroll to your nation than having to go through 3 ages worth of nations to get to yours.

Velusion solved this by creating 3 different games for all three eras, having people upload, then copy and pasting the pretenders to one folder I believe.

After the game starts, everything should be ok, it seems the issue only has to do with the nation selection screen.

[Zeldor]

E-mailing or using PBEM next time may be a better solution for game like that.

[CUnknown]

So, we're about to start, guys!! Yay!!!!!!

This is what I have given the Neutrals:

Significantly increased capital population.
An extra national commander to start.
A clam of pearls.
+15 PD in their capital province.

So, I think the Neutrals should be happy with their starting position.

I just need to get a couple people's updated pretenders, and then we are starting!

Edit: We have started! So don't use this thread anymore. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif