Global War (use new thread pls)

[CUnknown]

GOOD v EVIL v NEUTRAL

On the brink of global war.

Over the centuries, a group of shining, virtuous nations have formed a pact for mutual defense and peaceful coexistence. This small group of kingdoms worships a pantheon of gods, all different -- yet all the same. Five aspects of the same all-powerful god. They will stand as one in the upcoming War of Ascension. All will rise to glory, or all will fall into the pit of Tartarus for eternal suffering.

Another group of nations, evil, vicious, has also arisen. They, too, all worship different aspects of the same god, yet this god is so posionous that It has corrupted their minds and they do not understand their linked fate. They too will rise to glory as one, or fall into disgrace, but they are too blinded by arrogance to realize this essential fact. They want nothing but to expand across the globe, killing and enslaving any nation which stands in their way, preferably the "good" ones. They are not organized, but far more numerous than the League of Virtue.

Only a couple nations remain neutral in this upcoming fight. They may trade will anyone, good or evil, but their Council of Elders are isolationist in nature, and they will not permit coordinated military action with any other faction, including other neutrals. They may seem to be completely doomed, without hope, but their Gods are strong and their merchants shrewd, and they have been blessed with an abundance of material wealth.

GOOD

Disadvantages:
-The League of Virtue is few in number: 5 factions.
-They despise Death and Blood magic, and are forbidden to use these paths (except for anti-undead spells such as Wither Bones). They cannot trade for death or blood items with NEUTRALS. If they happen upon a blood site, they must let these slaves sit and rot in their vault. Do NOT use them for ANY purpose. Death gems, however, may be used solely to alchemetize to astral pearls.
Addendum: GOOD races are forbidden from having death or blood magic on their pretender, whether through pretender selection or empowerment. In fact, they can not empower in blood or death at all. Remember the only use for death gems is for alchemy, and blood slaves are completely useless to GOOD (they are freed).
-They are forbidden to have any contact with the EVIL races (Do not discuss the game -at all- with any of these races).
-They are limited in the topics they may discuss with the NEUTRAL races (see the NEUTRAL races for more detail).
-They are forbidden from eliminating their own players.
-They are forbidden from possessing the capital of another GOOD player (except temporarily if it has been conquered), unless that player has been defeated or turned AI.

Advantages:
-They will all start together (they have each other's back).
-They are able to talk and discuss amongst themselves freely, by e-mail, in game contact -- any method and any topic.
-If one of them dies, (s)he may give all items and gems to others in the League.

Victory Conditions
-Elimination of all EVIL players.
-Possession of all GOOD capitals.


EVIL

Disadvantages:
-They are forbidden to have any contact with the GOOD or EVIL races (Do not discuss the game -at all- with any of these races). EVIL cannot plan strategies or coordinate their efforts in -any- way. They cannot trade screenshots. They cannot -talk at all- amongst themselves.
-They cannot discuss their Pretender choices before the game starts.
-Each has a "secret enemy": There will be one Evil race that your race cannot tolerate. You have held such a grudge over the centuries that you will refuse to Ascend if that race is going too. You -must- eliminate that race, or if this is impossible, ensure that their God is dead or that their capital is in the hands of an enemy at the time of the Ascension. If you fail at this, you will fall into Tartarus!
-Each is prohibited from giving anything to any other faction upon their death.
-They are limited in the topics they may discuss with the NEUTRAL races (see the neutral races for more detail).
-They are randomly distributed throughout the world.

Advantages:
-They are overwhelmingly numerous: 8 factions.
-They may corrupt all forms of magic for their own use.
-They may eliminate their own players at will.

Victory Conditions
-Elimination of all GOOD and NEUTRAL players.


NEUTRALS

Disadvantages:
-They are limited in the topics they may discuss with all races. They may discuss: trading gold, gems, items, provinces, world maps (screenshots). Non-aggression pacts. "Please stop x (inciting unrest, etc.)" messages. No coordinated military actions with -any- other faction!! No trading military info on your personal nation beyond what you can show in world-map screenshots. You are -forbidden- to trade battle screenshots.
Addendum: General rumors are perfectly fine to communicate to anyone. As long as your rumors do not involve military actions of your forces, that is fine. For example, you can say: "Ermor has got the Chalice, I saw it on one of his units!" Is fine, but saying "He's got the Chalice, let's gang up on him. You attack province #14, I'll take #22" is not fine. Also, giving a screenshot of the Chalice in the hands of the enemy is also not acceptable.

--> If they trade screenshots to an EVIL player, that EVIL player is honor-bound not to show them to his/her allies. All EVIL players must purchase the screenshots individually from the NEUTRAL players if they want to see how the world looks apart from their own corner of it.

-Each NEUTRAL race is prohibited from giving anything to any other faction upon their death. All trades must be legit -- no trading 1000 gold for 100 gold. You are honor-bound to play in your own self-interest.
Addendum - NEUTRAL races are stubbornly proud and will refuse to give tribute to any race for any purpose. Trades which are slightly uneven are okay, as long as it is debateable. Simply handing 1000 gold to the nearest EVIL race "Please don't kill me" is not allowed. (i.e. making an unfair trade as a plea for survival (being a "forge *****") is not allowed). NEUTRAL races will live free, or die!

-They are on their own. There are 2 NEUTRAL races, but they are not a team.
-They are randomly distributed throughout the world.

Advantages:
-They may use all forms of magic.
-They may eliminate any player at will.
-They are the only players the EVIL factions can say anything to, including their own allies!
-They are extremely weathly: they start the game with 1500 gold and 10 gems of every type.

Victory Conditions
-Standard Dominions victory condition: There Can Be Only One. Ascend or get thrown into Tartarus! Sucks to be you, NEUTRAL guys.

Remember if you kill all of the EVIL races first and don't hold any GOOD capitals, you lose. You sort of have to attack both.

Settings
Mods:Conceptual Balance Mod 1.21 (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=578909&page=0&view=collap sed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1), Global Mod (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=592479&page=0&view=collap sed&sb=5&o=&fpart=12&vc=1)
Map: Orania
Indies 3
Site Frequency 45
Money 100
Resources 125
Supplies 100
Random events common
Score Graphs on
Hall of Fame 15
Difficult Research
Renaming On

Players

GOOD (5)
Tuidjy - MA Pythium
DonCorazon - EA Tir Na Nog
Hoplosternum MA Tien Chi
CUnknown - MA Ulm
Moderation - LA Arcosephale

EVIL (9)
Cerlin - MA Abysia
Ylvali - EA Sauromatia
Rathar - LA Ermor
Fal - EA Lanka
Folket - MA Bandar Log
Randvek LA Mictlan
Sicaire - MA C'tis
DryaUnda - MA Machaka
otthegreat - LA Ulm

NEUTRALS (3)
QM - MA Shinuyama
IndyPendant - MA Ryleh
Kheldron - MA Pangea

My IP: 97 dot 81 dot 86 dot 245
Port: 2001

[Cerlin]

I really love this idea! I am totally in!
This is really fun theme. I would be a Evil or Neutral faction...Still thinking which one I want. With all the moral discussion recently this one seems really great.
I will get back to you on which faction. You probably want a better player than me being the Neutral but if no one will do it I will.

[Tuidjy]

I think that the evil races will win easily on a small map, so please
make a bigger one. I would like to have Pythium.

By the way are you playing? If you are, I'll be very glad to have you as
Ulm on our team... but I am sure the good races will lose.

[CUnknown]

It will be around 15 provinces per player, or about 210 provinces is what I am thinking.

Is there any way you can think to balance it out? Should we have 5 Good races, or 3 Neutrals? Actually, having more Neutrals may even help Evil.. they'd have more trading partners, and they can eliminate some of them and still trade.

In the beginning, it will likely be 6 (good + neutral) v 8 (evil). And the neutrals will be super-factions in the beginning. Is that so horribly unbalanced? I'm afraid that 7 v 8 might make it hard for Evil to win.

Is your Pythium MA or LA? Good, Neutral, or Evil?

Yes, I was thinking about playing unless people think we need an offical officiator. Then I can just referee.

[quantum_mechani]

I'm not sure how this will pan out, but I'll tentatively claim one of the neutral slots. I would suggest loosening the diplo restrictions on neutral players, I think so long as they don't do any mutual attack agreements/coordination, they should be free to spread what ever (mis)information they want.

EDIT: Evil factions should be able to use bogus orders and mist of deception/damage enchantments. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Kristoffer O]

Cool idea!

I'm in another game now, so I'll pass, but it sounds very interesting. I'll check in and see how it goes.

[CUnknown]

Okay, QM, Neutrals will be able to talk about whatever they want -except- for coordinating military strikes. I just thought that it was simplier to limit them than tempt them into saying too much.

I mean, can they say: "I am at war with so-and-so. He's got this. I have these forces here with this objective." That is tantamount to military coordination, imo.

In fact, I think I am changing my mind again.. I don't think Neutrals should be allowed to discuss their forces or military objectives. Maybe trading battle screenshots should be okay?

[Cerlin]

Which Pythium? just curious http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[quantum_mechani]

CUnknown said:
In fact, I think I am changing my mind again.. I don't think Neutrals should be allowed to discuss their forces or military objectives. Maybe trading battle screenshots should be okay?

I don't think they should be able to discuss their plans, but anything they want to about the current situation, or what they think other nations might be up to.

[Cerlin]

Just hearsay and musing? May be interesting, you would have to trust the neutral player to limit it though...

[CUnknown]

Okay, sounds good QM. Let's make discussing military forces (anyones) off limits, and giving battle screenshots is also off-limits.

But, if you want to say "Hey, I think Ermor is researching to Tartarians, we should gang up on him."

Wait, is that okay?

See, I don't think that is okay, either.

Maybe just as long as all military plans are off limits, including yours. Like, is saying "Just thought you might want to know, Ermor is probably researching like crazy. I think he wants Tartarians, he'll probably get them in 5-10 turns." that okay? Thing is... if the person you are talking to knows you are attacking them currently, then that is almost an attempt at military coordination, imo.

[Cerlin]

Maybe more just like rumors from around the world?

"I hear Pythium and Abysia are at war...and its a stalemate" or something may be ok. That is a pretty neutral statement but at the same time could be used by either side kinda thing.

[IndyPendant]

This. is. awesome!

I have to play this game. I would like to take MA Ermor, Neutral Faction.

And I will suspend my meta-gaming policies (for those that have any clue what I am talking about) for this game as well. ; )

[CUnknown]

Rumors are cool! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Just no mention of your personal forces. You shouldn't say "I am at war with Ermor." Although you can give a screenshot of the map where Ermor is seiging your capital.

Neutral factions are going like hotcakes!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Maybe we should allow 3 Neutrals? It's just that I am actually worried about Evil. They should be an unstoppable hoard in the beginning. 8 v 7 is actually not that bad of odds, especially if 3 of the 7 are super-factions with bonuses in the beginning like Iron Mines.

[Cerlin]

Maybe adding more neutrals and making them rumor mills? Like it tends to be going? Maybe giving them a little less gold (like 1000?) Just an idea. If you had 3 of them instead of 2 that may make it more balanced for both sides? So even if people cannot communicate they can get hints and rumors from the neutral players, so they would have value of traders historically. Passing along some hint of how the world is going? And maybe all players could use vague AAR's in the thread to make it interesting? Just some ideas.

[quantum_mechani]

CUnknown said:
But, if you want to say "Hey, I think Ermor is researching to Tartarians, we should gang up on him."

Wait, is that okay?

See, I don't think that is okay, either.

Maybe just as long as all military plans are off limits, including yours. Like, is saying "Just thought you might want to know, Ermor is probably researching like crazy. I think he wants Tartarians, he'll probably get them in 5-10 turns." that okay? Thing is... if the person you are talking to knows you are attacking them currently, then that is almost an attempt at military coordination, imo.



But who would such tartarian scare tactics work on? If it's an evil race with them, evil races would probably not be too worried, while good races are probably already committed to fighting them. And vica versa if a good race had tartarians. And if the other neutral race had them... well as you say, them winning would be very difficult, it would be rather obvious if the game was going that way. The same argument pretty much applies to any military strength or weakness a neutral race could tip people off too. The only way I can really see a neutral race getting in trouble is mentioning plans to attack a specific player or province, which should be easy to avoid.

[CUnknown]

Sounds good, QM. We will leave it at that. It is prohibited to say "I am attacking province #14. You attack #22."

Let's leave battle screenshots as illegal, since that will just increase the Neutral's ability to be rumor-mills. They won't have to actually back up what they're saying with fact. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Real_friend]

I would play, any side, if yo play PBEM

[CUnknown]

You want PBEM? I'd really rather just set up a server. PBEMs are such pains for the host.

[Cerlin]

I agree CU! It would be really fun to have them just make up misinformation too. SO both sides will have to try to keep good relations with the Neutrals, especially the evil.

On this note I will make the dive into the evil end as being the first, I shall be MA Abyssia!

[Cerlin]

Pbem is more convenient sometimes, I especially realized this on my last trip to Japan. I can play either however.

[CUnknown]

I am extremely lenient as far as hosting times. If you want an extension, for any reason whatsoever, I will give it. I will often even give unasked for extensions if you have never staled before. I hate to see people stale who are interested in the game. However, once you start staling and not asking for extensions, you won't get any and I might even force host before the time is up if you are the last player, b/c I like a fast-moving game.

[DonCorazon]

I 'd love to join in to defend the forces of light from the cancerous evil that plagues the land (George Bush?).

[Tuidjy]

If you want rumors, the GM should do it. I think that the only communication
outside the Good league should be a trading thread.

And for my Pythium, it would be MA. I think that the good guys would be
best off with MA Pythium/Marignon/Mictlan/Ulm. By the way, my line up is more
for thematic reasons than for brute force. All four nations are human and seem
to care about their population.

But the more I think about it, the more I believe that the Good are doomed if
the neutrals are allowed to talk besides trade. If I were a neutral, and knew
that at the end ...

Hmm... Why am I not playing EA Jotunheim as neutral, again? :-)

[CUnknown]

Perhaps there should be 5 Good factions.

I keep waffling back and forth on the Neutral talking-ability thing. The best thing about Good is that they can discuss freely.. We should all vote on this issue to decide it.

[quantum_mechani]

One other things that doesn't make a lot of sense to me is how evil races can make deals (and NAPs) with neutrals, but not other evils. I guess there is not a good way around this though.

EDIT: But the coordination with other good races is primarily of value because you are on the same page with them, you all have the same victory condition.

[Hoplosternum]

I would like to play as one of the good guys. I haven't decided which one though yet....

[CUnknown]

Okay, you are in Hoplosternum.

I am also jumping into the Good team as MA Ulm.

I think the Good team should be raised to 5 players, does anyone have any objections?

I do think that the ban on death magic should remain for them, though. Unless other people agree with Tuidjy that death isn't all bad? Death-rebirth cycle kind of thing?

Edit: I will continue hosting if I am eliminated early, don't worry about that. Rush me if you like, I don't take offense. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Cerlin]

I would agree with 5, sounds ok to me. Though it does make the coordinations of the evil nations more glaring. I assume you will put th good nations in proximity and the evil may be more random?

[Ylvali]

I´d like to be evil as Sauromatia.

[Ylvali]

I think I´d really enjoy roleplaying evil. I suppose the evil players are supposed to really act evil in the game.

I understand the rule about no communication, but it kind of hampers the evil roleplaying possibilities. Like lying and stabbing allies in the back and other very evil things, but I guess it might be necessary.

[CUnknown]

Maybe we should raise Neutrals to 3 players as well? That doesn't hurt evil too bad, because they might even fight amongst themselves at some point.

Also, we could raise Evil to 9 players. Then it would be 8 (5+3) v 9 in the beginning. Good would really rely on the neutrals to not be overwhelmed. Of course we should maybe wait to see if we get that many players.

[moderation]

I'd like to play if there are any slots left. I prefer the good guys but am okay with the other factions. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I like how CUnkown balanced out the Good vs Neutral vs Evil factions with different advantages and victory conditions. Of course we can all talk philosophically about what good and evil mean forever, but it looks like it will be an interesting gameplay element.

[Cerlin]

Moderation! It is good to see you here! after all your strong defense of honor and "right" on these forums its thematic! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[IndyPendant]

Ha! I had logged back in to check to see if I could change my nation from Neutral MA Ermor to Good MA Ulm. Doh! If you ever change your mind, CUnknown, I'd like to switch. ; ) Otherwise, I'll stay as I am.

Suggestion: Allow good nations to trade *away* any death gems and/or blood slaves to the neutral nations?

[Drake49]

Making it work:
Evil Players:
Rather than counting on 'sportmanship' to make evil players follow the rules, let's give them a simple, logical, reason to be paranoid maniacs.

The victory conditions for each evil race are simple:
1.Eliminate all good and neutral players.
2.In order for an evil nation to win, the one aspect of the evil god that their evil aspect of the god truly hates must be defeated. This evil nation is their secret enemy.

In plain terms, each evil nation is told, on recieving Turn 1, which evil nation is it's secret enemy and must be defeated in order for them to win. Keeping this in mind, each evil race is free to share whatever information they like with other evil nations during pretender creation.
A few explanations:
A.There are no face-offs. The evil nation that you must destroy DID NOT recieve your nation as it's secret enemy. Thus, the nation that you must defeat is the only evil nation that you can be certain is not out to destroy you.
B.If all good and neutral players are eliminated, and only evil nation A has been eliminated, then only one evil nation wins, the evil nation that had evil nation A as it's secret enemy.
C.In no evil nations have been eliminated at the time all good and neutral nations have been eliminated, a wild internal fight will break out until one evil nation achieves the victory conditions. That evil nation is the only winner. The only exception is if multiple evil nations are eliminated in the same turn.
D.If more than one evil nation has been defeated at the time all good and neutral nations have been eliminated, then all the evil nations that have eliminated their enemy evil nation win.

That should keep the evil nations playing evil.

Neutral Nations:
To keep them from being elinated immediately, each neutral nation should start with 15 immobile Watchers in their capital. This makes rushing them virtually impossible.

Good Nations:
Given the problems added to evil nations, and the difficulty of a neutral nation defeating everyone else, a complete ban on Death and Blood is reasonable. A ban on blood-hunting to a nation with no blood hunters isn't very much of a restriction anyway. You are the only nations who can completely work together and don't have to worry about trying to kill each other. If you can't make that work, then your going to lose! However, banning non-death non-blood spells in addition is over the top.

[quantum_mechani]

IndyPendant said:


Suggestion: Allow good nations to trade *away* any death gems and/or blood slaves to the neutral nations?

Slave trading sounds a bit evil. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

The idea for evil nations is interesting, but I think it might be a bit to complicated, on top of the current game system. I'm also not sure neutrals really need a bunch of watchers.

[Ylvali]

I like that addition to the evil nations. It would be more fun than not being able to communicate.

[CUnknown]

Woah awesome idea, Drake49!

It makes me think I would have to drop out and be a full-time host, though. Someone would have to distribute the secret enemies.

Also, I worry that it might nerf Evil too badly, though.. maybe Good should drop back down to 4 players. It would make extra sense for me to drop out, then.

Let's consider these options, not make any concrete plans yet.

Edit: Actually, I think what would happen would be, Evil would ignore their secret enemies until Good is destroyed, then ignore Neutral until very late. These secret enemies are great for Neutral, horrible for Good. Good might should be able to keep 5 players.

I disagree with the 15 watcher idea, too. The Neutrals will be pretty stout already with 1500 gold and an iron mine, lol.

[moderation]

The secret enemy idea is intriguing. It reminds me of those murder mystery games. Very interesting!

[quantum_mechani]

I'm sure you could find someone to handle the evil nation enemies, if that's what we are using. It would be a shame to create this interesting of a game and then not be able to play it.

[quantum_mechani]

Another thing, any particular rules regarding water nations?

[CUnknown]

Okay, cool, yeah, we can just get someone else to do it. We can give them the master password as well. They can be sort of a co-host and monitor people to make sure they are obeying the rules.

Any volunteers for the monitor position?

If we do this secret enemy thing, does that mean that Evil is able to communicate amongst themselves with no restrictions? Or will there still be restrictions? I think if they can trade normally, they will dominate all opposition, regardless of this secret enemy stuff.

I think restrictions on communication should remain. What do other people think?

I mean, the other option is just to balance the frickin' teams.. but.. it loses some charm that way for me. I like the unstoppable Evil hoard idea.

Edit: Water nations have no special rules. Were you thinking of any in particular?

[IndyPendant]

I love Drake49's idea for the evil nations each having a secret foe! It's perfect to help keep them sufficiently paranoid! Edit: And yes, I agree all communications restrictions should remain as-is.

And note for my own idea, the good nations still could not deliberately generate blood slaves, for example. Only trade whatever (rare) slaves they happen to generate. But yes, I do see the point of it not being exactly good to do so...

I hate the idea of banning death and blood for everyone, though. Don't think that will pass, but if we did that, I wouldn't even be able to play MA Ermor at all.

[quantum_mechani]

No particular rule ideas for water nations, I was just thinking of playing LE Ry'leh. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Assuming secret enemies, here is how I'd recommend communication should work:

Good <-> Good - Anything goes.

Good <-> Evil - Not allowed.

Good <-> Neutral - Both can trade anything but blood/death gems/items, and both can say anything they like as long as no future plans against players/provinces are discussed.

Evil <-> Neutral - Same as above, but can do blood/death.

Neutral <-> Neutral - Same.

Evil <-> Evil - Can't trade between themselves, and can't coordinate wars (same rules as with neutrals), and also can't make NAPs. Everything else is fair game (greetings, threats, rumors, real or fake information). Basically diplo between evils would boil down to just trying to feel out who is your real enemy, with the currency being information. I think it could be pretty fun wondering if some juicy/important info from another evil nation is legit, or simply trying to get you engaged in another war and then finish you off. No diplo, period, would still probably be an OK option too.

[Tuidjy]

I'm out. Not gonna work. If you let Evil communicate, Good is doomed.

An evil player must be retarded to attack any other evil nation or
a neutral nation that is not attacking their alliance. By the same
token they must come to each other's aid or let the organized good
nations kill them one by one.

As long as you allows them to say "I'm in province #X, good nation #Y is NW"
you have given them 99% of the communication needed to stomp Good. You may as
well allow trade and balance teams.

[CUnknown]

Yeah, what QM said, is what I was thinking as well.

IndyPendant - you chose ME Ermor as a Neutral race, so you are perfectly allowed to use all the blood and death you want. Only Good races are disallowed their use (except for certain anti-death death spells).

Tuidjy - you probably have a point... we'd have to allow something for Good to balance it out... I suppose we could allow Death magic.

I love the secret enemy idea. But there are difficulties as to it's implementation. Tuidjy is right that evil would just forget about the secret enemies until after Good was long gone. We'd probably have to even out the teams if we add secret enemies and some limited communication.

But then we are drifting further and further...

You know... let's add the Secret Enemy (because it is just so cool), but keep the complete no communication for Evil thing. It's too important, if they are communicating even a little bit, we run the risk of them acting like a team.

Edit: and let's keep the no-death for good thing.

[Tuidjy]

I agree that drifting is bad. If Evil players agree to no communication
whatsoever, 8-4-2 is not unbalancing. The neutrals will have to try to balance
the two sides. Their trump is that they can take out single evil nations without
the other evil nations realizing it in time. The neutrals can also try to
help the evil nations keep the good in check.

But if you allow coordination among the evil EXCEPT by going through the
neutrals, the Evil have a cake walk.

[Cerlin]

Lets keep the no death for good, and being a evil player i like the secret enemy idea a lot! It balances. I also agree that Good should not be allowed to use death or blood, or hunt for slaves.

When it comes to communication. I Would say posturing on the thread of the game should be the maximum allowed. Some RP and such would be fun. None of the "He is here, get him" kind of thing.

[zlefin]

sounds like it could almost be run like those find the vampire (assassin/werewolf whatever) forum games.

of course the numbers would be different for that.
but it'd be fun if there was a game like that;
where you don't know who's on the various sides; and have to figure it out.

[moderation]

I agree that no death magic for good seems right thematically. Unless you feel the ends justify the means, in which case I question your goodness level! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

I've been thinking, what if the Evil players had Traitors, that is secretly Neutral players within their midst? The Traitors would have to betray the Evil players at some point. However I guess you would need to include some kind of condition to make sure that they don't wait until Good is dead before acting. Tell me if this is simply too complicated though. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

This would essentially make it a find the assassin game for them and you could tweak the number of traitors for balance. Not exactly sure if this will work, but I'm just fishing around for balancing ideas.

[moderation]

Tuidjy said:
I'm out. Not gonna work. If you let Evil communicate, Good is doomed.

An evil player must be retarded to attack any other evil nation or
a neutral nation that is not attacking their alliance. By the same
token they must come to each other's aid or let the organized good
nations kill them one by one.

As long as you allows them to say "I'm in province #X, good nation #Y is NW"
you have given them 99% of the communication needed to stomp Good. You may as
well allow trade and balance teams.




Okay, here's another crazy idea. Now I'm thinking of: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_theory and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner's_dilemma Suppose you only allow 6 or 7 of the 8 Evil players to win? The idea being that there are a limited number of victory points for Evil players and that they must compete amongst themselves for them. Just another variation on the infighting among Evil idea. I'll be quiet now so that we don't drift too much. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[CUnknown]

Hehe, cool idea moderation.. you could actually count the capitals of good and neutral as victory points for evil. There will only be 6 or 7 of them (depending on how many we decide).

[IndyPendant]

I think the Secret Enemy thing would cover that. I mean, think about it: if one evil player gets eliminated early, then another evil player has met one of its conditions. But which one is it?

The six evil players remaining that have *not* met the kill-their-target condition are going to try to make sure the Good Team is not killed--at least, not until they kill their target, because they lose if that happens!

Meanwhile, the seventh evil player, the one whose enemy is dead, is going to have to play a bit carefully to keep from giving away that he's the safe one...all the while concentrating on killing the Good Alliance before any other evil players are eliminated. Perhaps he would even be forced to come to the aid of another evil player about to be eliminated, because he would then have to 'share' his win! --All the while wondering "Am I saving the guy that wants me dead?"

It's just too perfect. ; )

[Hoplosternum]

IndyPendant said:
I think the Secret Enemy thing would cover that. I mean, think about it: if one evil player gets eliminated early, then another evil player has met one of its conditions. But which one is it?

The six evil players remaining that have *not* met the kill-their-target condition are going to try to make sure the Good Team is not killed--at least, not until they kill their target, because they lose if that happens!

Meanwhile, the seventh evil player, the one whose enemy is dead, is going to have to play a bit carefully to keep from giving away that he's the safe one...all the while concentrating on killing the Good Alliance before any other evil players are eliminated. Perhaps he would even be forced to come to the aid of another evil player about to be eliminated, because he would then have to 'share' his win! --All the while wondering "Am I saving the guy that wants me dead?"

It's just too perfect. ; )



Yes this is exactly what makes the Secret enemies idea work and 'balances' the game. All the Evils can't just knock out good unless they have fullfilled their victory condition or are close to doing so. Even if no evil players have been knocked out there is no point in a weaker evil player helping the other evils overcome good if he is not next to his secret enemy at least.

Also about balance - this is a bit of an experiment and its also meant to involve a bit more RP than the usual MP game. For those people who are super competitive or real MinMaxers then just about every other game offered on the board might be better for you? If you want allies play Good. If you want Tartarians & dabble in blood play evil. If it turns out to be a bit unbalanced and the goods go down early (or win easily) we will all know it for next time.

[Cerlin]

yes Im looking forward to fun and the experiment. Winning is not my objective. I really wish more games were like this, and im thinking up some ideas for moderation's post in the general one too. These kinds of games may be a little more work, but they are a lot more fun!

[Ylvali]

I´m in it for the roleplay too, winning is secondary. I really like the secret enemy idea.

[Rathar]

This sounds like fun. I would like to join the game and I don't really care what faction/nation.

[Fal]

are you full? if not I'd like to join as well. Neutral if possible.

[CUnknown]

We still have Evil slots available.

Rathar and Fal, you are both Evil if that is okay.

[Folket]

I would like to join evil as MA Jotunheim or MA Bandar Log.

[Randvek]

You still have a few evil slots left. Mind if I hop in one? I'd have to give my faction some thought, though.

[Ylvali]

Folket said:
I would like to join evil as MA Jotunheim or MA Bandar Log.

Jotunheim is more thematic I think. Just hope you don´t turn out as my neighbour. My hydras may get the flu.

[Executor]

I would like to join in if there are any evil slots left, but i'd have to think about my faction too.

[Executor]

I've made up my made I would like to take up MA c'tis.

[AlgaeNymph]

I'd like to be in as LA R'lyeh.

[Folket]

The rules are very strange. Once a good player have been eliminated good players can no longer win since they are not allowed to keep their former allies capital.

Also, I promise I can make Bandar Log be evil.

[djo]

What's the anticipated hosting schedule? Is there a built-in slowdown after some number of turns?

[Hoplosternum]

Ahh, but it can be held temporarily until its former owner returns to claim it. And hence for quite a while if that player is eliminated http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

OK I'd like to choose my good nation. Middle Age T'ien Chi please. They seem pretty good and lawful? No death or blood, healers, no demons.

[llamabeast]

This game looks _awesome_. Sadly I'm going away soon so can't play, but if there is a sequel I will be right in!

[Zeldor]

I wish I had time for that. But I guess I won't be able to join any games for 1-2 months with what I have http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif Endgame micromanagement is really tough, even in peace times. Finding jobs for mages after you finishe the research... heh.

CUnknown:

I didn't read whole tread, but there are couple things that you should watch for:
1. You really need an arbiter to watch over. Someone to check turn files if people don't do forbidden stuff [at least that you can check]
2. There are many newbies signing here and that may be some problem, especially with balancing forces. I think that game would go better with 'no newbies' rule, at least it would be more brutal interesting [but if you really admit them then some experienced player, not taking part here, should really help with nation and pretender choice].

And I hope it is CBM game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

P.S. It could be also interesting scenario for Epic Heroes III game.

[llamabeast]

I shouldn't think you need an arbiter. If an evil nation sends a message to another evil nation they are taking quite a risk in assuming the recipient will also be up for breaking the rules. Especially since the community here is generally pretty honest.

[Zeldor]

You have different people signed up for that game and some of them are not long. But arbiter would be rather to stop any temptations. If no one is checking then risk is not big.

[moderation]

How will nation placement work for the good nations? Specifically, I'm wondering about what we need to think about as far as overlapping dominion effects. And of course, it will be a real tragedy if one of us was domkilled by our comrades. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif

[AlgaeNymph]

Folket said:
I would like to join evil as MA Jotunheim or MA Bandar Log.

What about the other ages?

[Zeldor]

Someone should really take LA Ermor http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Executor]

If your worried about inexperienced players, you shouldn't be, I mean you all allready think evil are stronger, and that might be just the thing to balance it a little.
And I noticed everyones taking MA races, whats up with that?

[moderation]

You know, I was considering LA Ermor, but I think I will go with MA Arco in favor of thematic goodness. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[CUnknown]

Okay!

I signed up everyone, we are full now guys!

Players

GOOD (5)
Tuidjy - MA Pythium
DonCorazon (undecided on faction)
Hoplosternum (undecided on faction)
CUnknown - MA Ulm
Moderation MA Arcosephale

EVIL (8)
Cerlin - MA Abysia
Ylvali - EA Sauromatia
Rathar (undecided on faction)
Fal (undecided on faction)
Folket (MA Jotunheim or Bandar Log)
Randvek (undecided on faction)
Executor - MA C'tis
DryaUnda - LA R'yleh

NEUTRALS (2)
QM (undecided on faction)
IndyPendant - MA Ermor

Do these teams look balanced to everyone? There was some thought about trimming back down to 4 Good players. Should we do that? The Good player who moves could go Neutral.

Also, I made the "Secret Enemy" thing a little easier on Evil. Now, it is no longer necessary to completely eliminate your Enemy. You must either eliminate that race, or if this is impossible, ensure that their God is dead or that their capital is in the hands of an enemy at the time of the Ascension. If you fail at this, you will fall into Tartarus!

[Zeldor]

Ekhem, LA R'lyeh? :|

[moderation]

It's crazy time!

[CUnknown]

Does Cradle of Dominion seem like a good map to everyone?
[edit: yes we will use multiplayer version, everyone download it]

I will set up the server, but of course we will need some time to design our Pretenders.

My IP: 97 dot 81 dot 86 dot 245
Port: 2001

Download these mods to design your pretender:
Conceptual Balance Mod 1.21 (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=578909&page=0&view=collap sed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1)
Single Age Mod (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=512407&page=0&view=collap sed&sb=6&o=2&fpart=1)

[AlgaeNymph]

Zeldor said:
Ekhem, LA R'lyeh? :|

I originally went with MA R'lyeh, but then saw that I wasn't restricted by age.
CUnknown said:
Does Cradle of Dominion seem like a good map to everyone?


As long as it's the multiplayer version.
I will set up the server, but of course we will need some time to design our Pretenders.

So it's not PBEM? Will there be turn notification by e-mail?

[CUnknown]

One more thing. The following "exploits" are perfectly legal for this game:

Battlefield Enchantment + Retreat
Casting Vengeance of the Dead (even if it kills by timeout)

The remaining exploits on that exploit thread are -illegal-! Also, using Bogus' commands on any until other than Bogus' friends are illegal, too.

If anyone is caught using these exploits, they will be immediately turned AI.

[Kristoffer O]

> Battlefield Enchantment + Retreat

Just to make sure: this does not include Mists of Deception?

It might be unclear, since it is the same mechanic that might be questioned, but the two instances are separate in the abuse thread.

[Zeldor]

Strange that water nations are allowed.

[CUnknown]

The server will be 24-h host for the first 20 turns, then it will switch to 48-h hosting. Always on quickhost.

I don't really know how to do turn notification by e-mail exactly.. We should post here when new turns pop up, is that okay DryaUnda? I will try not to let people stale by giving extensions.

[moderation]

Just to be clear, does the ban on death magic forbid us from recruiting mages whose random paths include death? Also, I'm assuming that the computer might decide your mages should cast death spells when their scripting runs out even if they don't want to. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[IndyPendant]

Okay just to make sure here, you are *banning* Mists of Deception + Retreat, but *allowing* Battlefield Enchantments in general + Retreat, correct?

[CUnknown]

Clarification: Do not script Mists of Deception + retreat. If you retreat normally due to rout, that is okay. Also, do not script Mists of Deception + any battlefield enchantment damage spell.

Normal "move in, cast 'storm', retreat" types of moves are okay.

Death mages are okay for Good, it's just we can't use any Death gems (except for Alchemy). Also, it's probably best not to script any death spells except for the anti-undead ones. Although this would be hard to police. Basically, it's just anything using death gems is illegal.

[Zeldor]

CUnknown:

Unquenched Sword + MoD + Armor of Virtue/Ritual of Returning?

Or group of mages with BE + MoD + Returning [like Vortex of Returning].

[CUnknown]

Wow you guys are creative. Um.. yeah... any Mists of Deception combo will come under immediate scrutiny! If you are worried about being turned AI (you will not get a chance to argue your case, if the moderator sees these combos), then just -do not use Mists of Deception at all.-

I'm not "banning" Mists of Deception because it is a cool spell and has legitimate uses. But, any sort of combo like this is illegal.

[Executor]

Should we start uploading our pretenders?
And the money stays on 100 and resources on 125 right?

[CUnknown]

Yes, money at 100%, resources at 125%, indies at 3, sites at 45. Using 'single age' mod and 'complete balance 1.21'.

Go ahead and start uploading!

The Good factions might want to discuss their overall plan first though. My e-mail is dowdcc at yahoo dot com.

As far as the distribution of teams, is 8/5/2 acceptable to all? We could remove a good and go to 8/4/3 if the Evil team objects to having 5 good. The orginial plan was for 4 Good.

I am looking at Cradle and realize it is probably not a good map for us. The water in the middle makes it hard for Evil to team up on Good. I think I will probably be making a random map and modifying it.

[Real_friend]

We could as llama to host PBEM if the problem is administration? When travel PBEM is a real advantage, and who know who will be here in 3-4 months on the most interesting place in game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif?

[Randvek]

I think I may be uncreative and go with LA Mictlan for my nation. I mean, somebody has to rub all those blood slaves in good's nose, right?

[Cerlin]

I think cradle would be too limiting, maybe something thats a bit more open? like glory of god or something?
and I wouldnt be against another neutral player, because the goods do have a great early game advantage with lower indie (no ones using tartans that early.) Also It would give another rumor mill to confuse, I really like the idea of neutrals. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[DonCorazon]

I will go with EA - Tir Na Nog, as they seem to be about as pure as it gets. No Blood or Death if I recall, but sneaky buggers, nevertheless. I am flexible though, so if any of The League of Justice think we need something else for the team, just PM me.

Looks fun, thanks for organizing CU!

-DC

[moderation]

Just want to make sure: Multi-path death spells are okay for the good guys so long as no death gems are used right? Vengeance of the Dead comes to mind. Doesn't seem like the nicest thing to do, but I think thematic arguments can be made both ways. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Cerlin]

"punishing the evil for killing the innocent"
Even though im an evil player, this one sounds ok to me. Thematic and doesnt technically use death gems, though you might have to if you are going to empower...

[Cerlin]

Ok, first problem. I tried to upload my pretender...and it didnt work.
First I got to the page, and it showed all the options for All nations mod, but then when i tried to scroll down it kept jumping me to the top of the list, so I couldnt get to MA abysia. I then restarted my client and tried again, and now it only shows EA nations. Help?

[Fal]

I think I will try EA Lanka this time, never played this nation, but should be fun by the looks of it.

I think cradle map is a bit too small, maybe a wraparound map would be better.

[quantum_mechani]

Personally, I would prefer Cradle (I'm not even sure there any wraparound map that big?).

[Tuidjy]

Ok, good guys, if we are to have a chance, we better design our strategies
around each other. Lets use e-mail to coordinate.

Lets have the start date no earlier than Wednesday.

[Fal]

Orania is a wraparound map that has 279 provinces. it's not as pretty as cradle though. I'm cool with any map, so it's up to you guys.

Anyways I'd like to see how this game turns out, I actually think the good side might turn out to be a lot stronger than the evil, just my assumption though.

[DonCorazon]

Tuidjy said:
Ok, good guys, if we are to have a chance, we better design our strategies
around each other. Lets use e-mail to coordinate.

Lets have the start date no earlier than Wednesday.



If you want, you can PM your emails to me and I will send out a good guy email distribution.

[Cerlin]

I would agree, the numbers on both teams are a little too even and evil is pretty limited... but should still be fun http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif playing more for thematic fun than actual winning.

[Hoplosternum]

Re balance. Remember the Neutrals will help to balance things. Good does not need to attack them. And nor does Evil. But the Neutrals need to make sure neither good or evil triumphs. And they can talk to both sides. While they can't plan attacks with Evil they could say something like we think good is winning so we'll lay off you if you do likewise. Its not a real NAP as it can be broken by both without warning and specific borders etc can't be discussed. But neither good or evil should be able to take down all their opponents without the neutrals getting involved.

The part of the balance that may be off is late age R'yleh. This is widely acknowledged as one of the most powerful if not the most powerful nation. And no good power has any water ability. Nor can any good power go the undead route to get underwater. It also has no water competitors so it will get big and reasonably safe early.

This will be a problem to all sides, evil as much as good. Either they have to take down one of their own early on or they are faced with an 'ally' that is damaging to be next to, is largely immune to attack and can just build up till it strikes at its secret enemy. It won't be a lot of fun if your the evil player whoes secret enemy is the LA R'yleh. All other evil players are at risk from good and neutral but not R'yleh.

Would it be better if either someone else (of any faction) was also in the water? Or if they moved to the neutral team (and one of those became evil)? Then everyone is against them?

This will be especially a problem if we played on Glory of Gods or Alexander which have a large linked water areas. I think Cradle may be a little small. Perhaps Orania which is a wrap around would be best? It only has a sea of 20 (all linked) areas and nearly all are by the coast so maybe it would be good if LA R'yleh stays as the only sea power?

[quantum_mechani]

I somewhat agree about LE R'yleh. I posted a while back about considering playing them, but it just seemed a little unfair, even as neutral. As part of one of the teams it's an even bigger problem.

[Fal]

given the fact that good nations have no conflicts in interests AND allowed communicate each other - not to mention they are allied and locate close to each other, any single evil nation will be facing a joint army force from five different nations, and he will have to adopt several different battle strategies. IMO it's going to be an impossible task unless the evil nations somehow coordinate their actions. Hopefully the neutral players will be the buffer here, but the chances are, the neutral nations will be busy keeping themselves alive and try to get most out of both sides, if they are not eliminated early in the game that is. And this is not helped by the low indie strength (of 3), personally I think a slower early expansion might be better.

I wouldn't worry too much about R'yleh though. should be fine as long as he doesn't get 30 or so connected sea provinces.

[Randvek]

If you are worried about Good (and Evil, to a lesser extent) not being able to hit the water, perhaps we should do something to make sure at least one of the neutrals has a decent water forge path. Nothing like solving the problem by letting a Neutral charge a fee for water access, with a fee that could go up or down depending on how big a threat R'yleh is.

[quantum_mechani]

Good and evil both have decent access to getting underwater, the issue is more that they are close to unassailable there. Good could crack them after they have taken out the rest of the evils, but short of that... I think they are there for good. I really pity any evil race getting them as their secret enemy.

[Tuidjy]

I really think that the game should stay in the planning stages for now.
I actually agree that with 5 people, the teams have become too balanced.

[Cerlin]

Could we switch one of the good to neutral? I would accept that! Right now there is a little too much balance, I think more neutrals will make it interesting. And I hope they realize how important their roll is.
Also I like Oriana as a map. IT is big enough with lots of ways to expand on all sides.
LA ryleth may be an issue...what do others think? I'd even rather have LA Ermor, at least i can banish them!

[quantum_mechani]

LE Ermor is much more balanced, no question. Now that their pop dies at a reasonable rate, I think there are quite a few nations that could have a shot going toe to toe with them.

[CUnknown]

I agree, let's play on Orania. A nice large wraparound map is what we need.

Given that the map is that large, though, we can easily add 1 or 2 players (if we can find them). Let's add 1 Evil, making the final tally 9 Evil, 5 Good, and 2 Neutral.

It's probably true that LE Ryleh is unbalanced. And for the secret enemy thing, it's probably best to keep everyone on land. Let's say no water races are allowed (except for Neutrals). I'm sorry Drya Unda.

[AlgaeNymph]

If R'lyeh isn't allowed then I'll take Machaka.

[Executor]

Cerlin said:
Ok, first problem. I tried to upload my pretender...and it didnt work.
First I got to the page, and it showed all the options for All nations mod, but then when i tried to scroll down it kept jumping me to the top of the list, so I couldnt get to MA abysia. I then restarted my client and tried again, and now it only shows EA nations. Help?



Ok now I'm having the same problem, suggestions?

[Zeldor]

At least Ylvali fits really well to evil faction http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[otthegreat]

Are you looking for another evil nation? if so I would really like to join the game.

[CUnknown]

Okay, you are in otthegreat.

Is 9 Evil, 5 Good, 2 Neutral good? We could do 1 more Evil or Neutral perhaps. I think this would be good, though.

If Good jumps on an Evil, killing them in the first few turns or whatever, then the Neutrals will think twice before allying with Good in the beginning.

And what about the actual composition of the teams? Is everyone happy with balance? (Should we make our pretenders and start?)

[Kheldron]

If you want another player, any side, I'm in.
I was out for the weekend and feel sooo sorry that this thread went so fast in just one weekend. Already full :-/

[Cerlin]

I think we could use one more neutral, we could let Kheldron be that neutral. I would be ok with it. The neutrals would still be outnumbered buy a lot but they would be a good way to balance both sides aggression.

[otthegreat]

I'll take LA Ulm, or if people really want an Evil player to be LA Ermor I could take them instead. I also think that one more neutral would be good.

[Ylvali]

Myself I think the third neutral could be a water nation, but not R´lyeh. It would be cool to have a neutral oceania or atlantis lurking around.

Otherwise we could have an AI water nation, just to add some unpredictable coastal attacks to the game.

[Ylvali]

Zeldor said:
At least Ylvali fits really well to evil faction http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif


Flattery will get you nowhere. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[moderation]

Oh yeah, I think I'd rather be LA Arco instead of MA.

[IndyPendant]

I could play MA R'lyeh instead of MA Ermor in the neutral faction, if people think a neutral water nation would be a good idea...

And I need to mention: in roughly two weeks I will be going on a business trip for about a week, and my spare time will be very limited indeed. I can still do my turns, but there's no way I could maintain a 24-hour turn schedule. I would need for the game to go onto a 48-hour timer for that week. If that's a huge issue, I can pull out (although I really don't want to! ; )

[Kheldron]

Well, if you confirm I can play in this game, I'd either play MA Rlyeh or MA Pangea if Rlyeh bothers you all too much ^^

[Kheldron]

oops we wished for the same thing at the same time Indy

Anyway, I'm still unconfirmed so no priority issue...;-)

[CUnknown]

Kheldron - I don't know yet, I will let you know soon. I'd like to hear Tuidjy and QM's opinion on the # of players and balance issues first.

IndyPendant - no problem man, if you have real life things to do, we understand! But, I would want you to be able to do a 24-h schedule for the times when you aren't on a trip or unusually busy (at least for the first 20-30 turns or so).

[Foodstamp]

What is the role of the moderator? Depending on what you need, I may be able to help.

[CUnknown]

Foodstamp has graciously agreed to be our moderator! Yay!

He will be sending you your Secret Enemy assignments by PM or e-mail (pm him your e-mail if you prefer to receive it that way).

If the vets playing agree to team balance, then we are almost ready to start! However this server issue is sort of strange, I wonder what to do about it to allow people to upload their gods..

[Rathar]

I am feeling a little sick and braindead.. Anyone have any suggestions for an evil race? I might have to bow out unless the brain starts up again.

[Cerlin]

LA Ermor is especially thematic, but also i think EA Formoria may be a not too brain tasking race. Lots of giants, do well with or without a bless. Decent PD, glamor, death magic, nice random heroes too.

[Foodstamp]

I will wait until Rather has chosen his nation before I randomly generate the rivals for the evil races. Be sure to look over the rules of the game, paying special attention to what your faction is allowed to do.

Also be sure to read over what spell combinations or actions are considered in game abuse. Anything listed in the "Abuse" poll is considered abuse. This includes using MoD with any battlefield enchantment and fleeing the field, using the siege bug to move multiple spaces.

Straight from the host to clarify:



Casting battlefield enchantments and retreating is okay, but doing the Mists of Deception combo with Wrathful skies is not okay. Vengeance from the Dead is okay, but no other exploit on that thread is allowed.




If you have any questions concerning the rules after the game starts, feel free to to PM me if the question would compromise your position in the game due to CUknown having the information.

If there are any questions about what will be considered an exploit in this game and what is not, now is the time to ask them.

Heres to a clean RP themed game. Let's get it on!

[otthegreat]

Executor said:

Cerlin said:
Ok, first problem. I tried to upload my pretender...and it didnt work.
First I got to the page, and it showed all the options for All nations mod, but then when i tried to scroll down it kept jumping me to the top of the list, so I couldnt get to MA abysia. I then restarted my client and tried again, and now it only shows EA nations. Help?



Ok now I'm having the same problem, suggestions?



Me too.

Foodstamp/CUknown: What kinds of things will we be able to post in the forums?

[Fal]

Do I need download this complete balance mod at all? can someone give me a link plz http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif? I have the Mega Age 1.0, will this do?

[IndyPendant]

Yes, I can maintain a 24-hour schedule for the first 20-30 turns, outside my business trip, no worries there.

I think I shall officially switch my race to MA R'lyeh (neutral), so long as I'm the only water nation. (Heh.)

May I strongly suggest either using Llamaserver (so he can review past files if needed to settle potential rules-abuse disputes), or backing up each and ever turn that this game plays, just in case?

Edit: I also suggest that when we do finally start, we do so in a new thread, with all the rules copied over. This thread is already on Page 10! ; )

[Cerlin]

Oh I just wanted to say I look forward to this experiment with you all! it could be really fun!
And I wanted to say thanks to Foodstamp for volunteering to mod for us. I hope we can be entertaining!

[moderation]

CB mod: http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=578909&page=0&view=collap sed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

[Fal]

Thanks for the link. and yes thanks for CU and Foodstamp for organizing this.

Btw is there some sort of ban on Nexus included in these mods? If the allied players decided to all contribute their gems and cast one big nexus we evildoers shall be pretty screwed.

[Foodstamp]

All the thanks goes to CU, I am just generating evil rivals and spot checking turns http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

[CUnknown]

You have to also download the Single Age mod, too:

Conceptual Balance Mod 1.21 (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=578909&page=0&view=collap sed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1)
Single Age Mod (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=512407&page=0&view=collap sed&sb=6&o=2&fpart=1)

And have the mods active when you are designing your Pretender.

There is no ban on the Nexus. If people are convinced that this is necessary, I wouldn't be against banning it. But I don't think that it is necessary.. Research is set to difficult, and I think that if Evil is still in the running late game, they will be in a good position due to Tartarians and so forth.

otthegreat - Evil races can pretty much post whatever they want on the forums, as long as it doesn't break the rule that Evil players can't communicate to each other.

Saying "My evil forces will crush you, Pythium! Argg!" is okay. Saying "I just lost a battle to Pythium, I am going to need help soon or I'm doomed" is less okay. Saying "LA Ermor, attack province #56 of Pythiums, I will cut off his retreat by attacking #58" is obviously not okay, even if you are trying to deceive.

No discussing the specifics of your battles or of the provinces you are attacking.

And - no private communication between Evil at all!

IndyPendant - Okay, I will save the turns so we can look at them later.

[IndyPendant]

Hmm, I'd like to second the Nexus ban, very very strongly. Fal has a good point; that's an absolutely game-winning spell. All the Good Team has to do is have one player with a pretender designed to cast it, who researches like mad up that school while the others protect him. He could have the spell up by Turn 20 or so, even with difficult research.

He then redistributes the gems, for example to MA Ermor for crafting, and it's game over. The Tartarians on the Evil/Neutral Teams will need to be summoned, Gift of Reasoned, and equipped...all taking gems. All of which the Good Team rakes in. Gems *are* the game, in the end-game. And the rest of the players will be severely hindered even in their ability to dispel it, since the Evil players can only even talk to the Neutrals.

It's a *BAD IDEA* not to ban Arcane Nexus. Seriously, game-breakingly bad.

[Zeldor]

Kheldron:

From what I;ve seen only really experienced players may play as neutral.

[Randvek]

Cerlin said:
Ok, first problem. I tried to upload my pretender...and it didnt work.
First I got to the page, and it showed all the options for All nations mod, but then when i tried to scroll down it kept jumping me to the top of the list, so I couldnt get to MA abysia.



Same problem. This must be a known issue?

[Rathar]

All righty I will try LA Ermor as well they are the stereotypical "evil" empire imho. Surprised they weren't taken.

[Cerlin]

Should we get rid of Nexus? Indi's argument is a strong one. This could be one of the problems of having a whole team that works together...I'd support the ban.

[Ylvali]

I´m for a ban of nexus in this game too.

[Hoplosternum]

Yes. Lets ban it as it does seem like an abuse. I don't think we goods had struck on this strategy. But it may have come to us later.

Will this also be an issue with other globals? If so perhaps a limit on the extra gems you can put in to the Gift of Health, Mother Oaks etc. should be put in? Good is likely to be able to always outbid evil here as it will always be 5 v 1.

If we said you can't put in more than double the minimum cost on a global? Or just 50% more? That would give Evil a chance to dispel anything good puts up. While good still has the advantage that they will be able to cooperate to cast such spells and should always be able to put up a decent dispel.

[Zeldor]

Other globals are not so powerful. And only one good nation will benefit from GoH. There are only 4 good nations, not 9, because they can cooperate. And they must cooperate, for example with trying to grab many globals, dividing research, item forging etc. That's why they are taking Ulm http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Kheldron]

Well then if only really experienced player may play neutral, it obviously rules me out.
I've only played 3 MP games, and only 2 beyond turn 40...:-/

Have fun guys

[AlgaeNymph]

I logged into the server, and all I see are Early Age nations. How do I upload my Machaka pretender?

[Foodstamp]

Three different games will have to be set up to choose pretenders from all 3 ages, with 3 different ports if I remember correctly from the first megagame.

[CUnknown]

Okay, due to popular demand, the Arcane Nexus is now banned!

Foodstamp -- how do I merge the 3 games once everyone is uploaded? I am confused..

[Foodstamp]

Talk to Velusion, he is the only person I know who has ran a multi-era game. Considering the limited amount of players in this game, I could probably create a mod that allows players to do it. I can move all the desired nations to one era of your choice and as long as everyone has the mod installed, we should be able to play the game like that.

It would probably be a lot easier than doing it the way the Megagame did it and would literally take me about 10 minutes to do the mod. But I have class and work until 9cst so I will be away from the house for about 12-13 hours, but I could do it first thing when I get home.

[Executor]

Randvek said:

Cerlin said:
Ok, first problem. I tried to upload my pretender...and it didnt work.
First I got to the page, and it showed all the options for All nations mod, but then when i tried to scroll down it kept jumping me to the top of the list, so I couldnt get to MA abysia.



Same problem. This must be a known issue?




Will someone PLEASE tell Cerlin, Randvek or me what the hell to do, AS I CANT UPLOAD MY GOD!!!

[CUnknown]

None of us can upload our gods, we are trying to figure it out. Patience! We will get it working. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Hoplosternum]

Kheldron said:
Well then if only really experienced player may play neutral, it obviously rules me out.
I've only played 3 MP games, and only 2 beyond turn 40...:-/

Have fun guys



Kheldron, while I think the neutrals have the toughest job (basically you have to conquer the map - alone) you should get a fairly peaceful start and a beginning boost. Not bad for a newer player.

No one really knows how this game will play out so I am not sure why you can't be neutral. You may get swarmed by good (or evil) at some point but I am not sure if its many against one that even experience will help that much.

But personally I hope you are not banned for being fairly new to mp. And I can't see any real reason for it.

[CUnknown]

Okay, we will take one more, but the game is full now, guys! She canna take any more, cap'n!

Kheldron, you are a proud, lonely Neutral. What faction were you thinking?

Oh, and make sure you understand the game rules. For Neutrals, the major rule is that you are not allowed to coordinate attacks with anyone, Good or Evil. You can pretty much speak your mind, but no direct mentioning of your battle outcomes (i.e. I lost 1 commander, 20 regulars; he lost 0 commanders, 100 regulars), force strengths, etc. And especially no saying "You attack #14, I will attack #28."

[Kheldron]

well then thx guys, I pick MA Pangea.
I'm at work right now so I wont upload my pretender until this evening (+1 GMT here)

And about the loneliness thing...I'll do my best!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

Kheldron

[Rathar]

Which map are we using? Orania? Doesn't that have set magic sites? Knowing where x, y and z are is lame.

Or am I hopefully missing something. In my test games they are set so..

[Kheldron]

I can't connect to server. Is it down for any reason?
It seemed others encountered problems after connecting, which I can't. Or is it the same problem with you all?

[Cerlin]

Same problem,' Foodstamp may have a solution tonight. Patience is a virtue. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Foodstamp]

I am still at work, but I don't have a lot to do. I could probably work up the mod now if I can find a link to Edi's mod pdf. I have dominions on my jump drive so I should be able to test it here http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

[Foodstamp]

Attached is a mod called "global.dm". Place this file into your /mods directory. Create your pretender god with this mod and the complete balance mod enabled. These are the only two mods you should have active.

The server will need to be reset with these two mods active and the game must be set to the Middle Era with the mods active at the time the game is set up. Then you should be able to upload your pretender.

What does this mod do?

This mod allows players who chose EA and LA nations to play those nations in the middle era. It should eliminate the bug where the nation list truncates if there are too many to choose from. This mod also eliminates the spell "Arcane Nexus".

If this mod does not fix the issue, then it probably has something to do with the way the pretender files are handled.

One more note. The inclusion of this mod means any players who join after the server is set up must choose an MA nation. This means that the undecided neutral player will have to choose an MA nation.

[Foodstamp]

Tonight I will generate the evil rivals. If you would like to receive the result through email instead of PM, let me know here or send me a pm.

[Fal]

Please PM me.

I will upload pretender tomorrow if that's not too late.

[Randvek]

Thanks for the hard work, Foodstamp!

[Cerlin]

Ok My pretender is remade, just let us know when the server is back.

[moderation]

Oh by the way, what age will the indie units and indie recruitment correspond to?

Also, Good Team may need a bit of time to plot the conquest of the world. Muhuahuah-- Er, make that the liberation of the world from evil. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[CUnknown]

Does Orania have preset magic sites? I didn't know that. Hmm.

Thank you so much Foodstamp for the kick-arse mod! You are the best moderator ever!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Server is back up, y'all!

(Remember to make your pretender with the CB mod v1.21 and Global mod that Foodstamp just gave us both active).

My IP: 97 dot 81 dot 86 dot 245
Port: 2001

[DonCorazon]

Foodtamp, thanks alot man. Very cool of you to help out.

[Cerlin]

I have played Orania a lot and there are a couple preset ones on the thematic sights, like volcano. They are really easy to tell but there are only a couple, and not too over the top. Just make it more spiced up.

[Cerlin]

And yes Foodstamp thank you for the great mod! and I am all uploaded and ready to go.

[Foodstamp]

NP guys, I am glad it works. It will be tomorrow afternoon before I can randomly assign rivals, I got home kinda late tonight. Be expecting the PMs tomorrow evening http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Folket]

what is the IP and port?

[CUnknown]

My IP: 97 dot 81 dot 86 dot 245
Port: 2001

[Folket]

is it just me or does the server look very much like an ordinary MA game?

[CUnknown]

I noticed that myself, Folket. When I log on to the server as a player, I only see MA factions. When I check the server window itself, I see all the correct factions I am supposed to see. I don't get it.

[Cerlin]

When I was creating and adding my god I scrolled down and saw the other nations for the people who choose them. And If you use the mod for other games you will find that foodstamp moved them from the other ages into MA.

[Foodstamp]

So people from the other ages are still not able to upload their pretenders? Someone playing an LA or EA nation give us some feedback please http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Drake49]

Things seem to be advancing.... I agree that 5 good vs. 8 evil is maybe to equal. Maybe adding another evil nation is better than removing a good nation.

Tuijdy's point that the evil nations would ignore each other, even with the secret enemies, till the end is a good point. A mechanism to force the game to a quick conclusion if good is defeated decisively is needed. One poster said that the top evil nation should win if good/neutral is defeated. I think this, with very little tweaking, pushes things forward.
Modified Evil Victory Conditions would be:
1.Good/Neutral is defeated.
2.And then either:
A.The evil nation is the first or second strongest evil nation by province count.
B.The evil nation has defeated it's secret enemy.

This will make evil nations compete for province count to, and also mean that once good/neutral is rendered very weak, the top two evil nations will have every incentive to finish things quickly. This makes 'patient waiting' by 4th highest province count evil nation a very... risky... proposition.

Finally, I offer to hold the secret enemy list seperate from Foodstamps administrative actions. I am a new player, and have very little 'relationships' with existing players. Also, I will have no involvement in the game besides holding the master list. I want this game to work, and will keep the list secret.

Also, if you want to add a neutral nation, maybe one of the weaker water nations would make diplomacy interesting. No LA Ryleh, of course. Not so sure.

[Foodstamp]

Finally, I offer to hold the secret enemy list seperate from Foodstamps administrative actions. I am a new player, and have very little 'relationships' with existing players. Also, I will have no involvement in the game besides holding the master list. I want this game to work, and will keep the list secret.



I don't understand. Are you saying you should have a second copy of the list, or that you don't trust me with the list?

[Zeldor]

Drake49:

Ekhem, you are brave to come here, with just few posts, and tell that you are more trustworthy than one of the senior community members. Also your words about victory conditions suggest that you completely do not understand the idea of that game nor have you really read that thread.

[CUnknown]

Drake, Foodstamp agreed to be the moderator primarily so he could make the secret enemy list and keep it secret. (Also so he could spotcheck turns to make sure no Good nations are bloodhunting, for example).

There is no reason for a second person to hold the list, in fact that would be a security breach! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

As far as other factors involving Evil's victory conditions, I would rather not complicate things any further. Let's keep them as they are for now. Maybe next game we will make more additions.

Edit: Peace, Zeldor. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif I think his suggestions are potentially good ones.. but only if Evil needs more restrictions. My thinking right now is that the Secret Enemy thing will be fun and restricting enough.

Also, I don't think he was being bold or arrogant, but that he didn't realize that Foodstamp's primary role as moderator was to hold the secret list.

[Fal]

Zeldor said:
Drake49:

Ekhem, you are brave to come here, with just few posts, and tell that you are more trustworthy than one of the senior community members. Also your words about victory conditions suggest that you completely do not understand the idea of that game nor have you really read that thread.




Fewer posts means absolutely nothing, perhaps he just spent less time insulting other community members and posting pointless stuff...His suggestions made sense, but hey drake dominions has a mature community, unlike many other games, trust foodstamp, he will be fair http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

P.S I have problem connecting, is the sever down?

[Rathar]

Server down? I cannot seem to connect.

[CUnknown]

It might very well be down. I will have to check it when I get home. If you don't hear from me in a few hours, then yes, the server was down because I lost internet connection. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[CUnknown]

Server is back up now. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Rathar]

La Ermor loaded. I had a weird thing in that it was crazy difficult to scroll down to LA ermor. I would scroll down and in about half a second it scrolled back up. Repeat until I managed to actually click on the right one. heh

Hopefully it's just me!

[Foodstamp]

But you were able to upload your pretender? Thats good news http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif. It means the other LA/EA participants should be able to as well.

[Foodstamp]

I have randomly generated the targets for elimination for the evil factions. All the evil players should have received a private message from me tonight.

Folket, I will send you your faction to eliminate after you decide on a nation.


Everyone remember to keep the information secret so you will have the element of surprise when you go for the kill on your rival.

Goodluck guys http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[moderation]

May your evil secret enemies be thematically secret and evil. And cute and cuddly!

http://lolthulhu.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/unknown-cathulhu_soul.jpg

There's more (but not as cute) at http://lolthulhu.com/. Maybe not safe for work or younger children though. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Randvek]

Ok, maybe dumb question, but I've never uploaded a pretender in this manner before. It keeps telling me that I have not created a god for my nation. I don't see any option to upload, but then again, the server is yet again disallowing me from scrolling down, so I may simply just not be able to see the option.

Hate to sound like a noob, but a little help here?

[Foodstamp]

You need to create your pretender under tools/ create pretender.

Be sure both mods are going when you do it. Then connect to the server, mousewheel scroll down to your nation and have your god take control.

[Randvek]

Ah. I actually did make my pretender properly, but the scrolling ability is not present. Grr.

[Rathar]

I had the same problem Randvek. I eventually got it but it was a pain. I think it was "easier" for me though as La Ermor was one of the first to scroll down.

Scroll it down hard and far it'll blip down. Click fast.

[Randvek]

Ah, finally got it to work. Shouldn't have been that hard just to scroll down, though. >.<

[Fal]

lol yeah that was a pain in the *** experience...took me five minutes (about 200 tries) to load my pretender http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[CUnknown]

I'm sorry it was so tough to upload, guys. But hopefully you will only have to do that once. No one hit 'start game' please. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Foodstamp, there has been some discussion as to whether the "Lord of Rebirth" pretender is acceptable for Good. The issue being that he's got some death magic. I am biased towards my Good compatriots, so I don't feel I'm the one who should make that decision.

In your unbiased perspective, should Good be allowed to have some death on their Pretender, as long as the Pretender chosen is not an undead, demon, etc..? I mean obviously "Lord of Darkness" or "Moloch" should be illegal for Good. But Lord of Rebirth seems fairly acceptable to me, I dunno.

[otthegreat]

I made my pretender with both mods enabled. I was able to scroll down to and click on (multiple times) LA ulm. Still, a message comes up saying that I haven't made a god for that nation. Help?

[Rathar]

With both mods on you need to choose Middle Era at the pretender creation screen. This gives you access to the correct LA Ulms creation screen.

I forget if it even lets you design a LA pretender with the mods running but if it does I bet thats the problem. I.E. a pretender created under Late Age is not the same as a LA age god created under MA. Make sense? Tis a touch confusing to me!

Ill go check to see if thats even possible.

Just checked and uhh no that can't be the problem as with the mods running there isn't a choice for LA Ulm on the LA screen. Only on the MA screen. Hmm nm then!

[Hoplosternum]

OK my Pretender is loaded up.

[otthegreat]

Yeah I selected LA Ulm from the MA list. There might be another problem: I connected again and only saw MA nations so I clicked randomly ... and hit Marignon which I just so happen to have a god for. Now it says my god has been uploaded for Marignon, he wasn't made with the mods though...

[Rathar]

I think that if you do it again it will let you re-choose. I think..

Oh and on the "Good" pretender with death thing. I think it's fine but you can't add points to your death magic or use any death magic (save for anti-undead spells yes?) so it seems a bit of a wash but..

[moderation]

Actually, I'm thinking of going with EA Arco instead of LA if that is okay.

[Folket]

I have chosen Bandar Log.

[Foodstamp]

-They despise Death and Blood magic, and are forbidden to use these paths (except for anti-undead spells such as Wither Bones). They cannot trade for death or blood items with NEUTRALS. If they happen upon a blood site, they must let these slaves sit and rot in their vault. Do NOT use them for ANY purpose. Death gems, however, may be used solely to alchemetize to astral pearls.




According to the above description I think the Lord of Rebirth is ruled out. He starts with Death magic, which is despised by the faction. Matters will become complicated later on when he uses astral items to empower multiple paths, thus opening the door for some other death options that should not be allowed. I read the above quote as anything death related being prohibited except for national/indy mages casting wither bones. As was said, even if the Lord of Rebirth is allowed with the limitation on death, it makes him a subpar pretender choice for the player.

Moderation,

If you wish to choose a different faction, it can only be an MA faction. That is the restriction for getting the other nations into the game in a halfway workable format.

Evil nations cannot switch factions at this point. This is because you know your rival now, so switching nations would give you an unfair advantage over your enemy.

I have not received a read receipt from the Sauromatia player. I remember reading somewhere that this player may have quit Dominions completely. If this is the case, we may need to look for an alternate.

[Rathar]

I don't think it's the case that Ylvali has quit. They are putting in turns in Priori but I dunno!

[Ylvali]

I cerainly haven´t quit!

I was thinking about quitting one game (alexandria) because there was too much metagaming and bad energy floating around, but that got better and I stayed on. I will certainly be with you all the way on this one.

Actually I somehow missed to send in my receipt, I´ll do it rigth away.

[Ylvali]

Ummm... When I log into the server now, it seems my nation has vanished along with some other nations??? I uploaded my pretender the day before yesterday, is everything ok with that or...?

[CUnknown]

Yes, your nation is still loaded, Ylvali. Everything is fine. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

This is bad timing, guys, but I am going out of town from saturday and getting back on wednesday. I don't know whether we should wait until I get back to start or just go ahead and start anyway. I could get a sub, I bet. The first few turns will be really easy.

We will see if everyone is loaded up by saturday, if not, then we will wait until wednesday.

[Foodstamp]

Wednesday sounds like a good start day. That gives us time to hammer out any remaining details. It also allows discussion over any remaining questions as the rules are more complex than normal for this game.

[Fal]

yes I don't mind waiting either.

[IndyPendant]

Heh. I don't mind waiting either--but if we do, then two days after we will start is when I go away for my week-long business trip, and when I would need the game to go to 48-hour quickhost for one week. If we're all okay with that... ; )

[DonCorazon]

I am fine with accommodating people. With this many folks and the more complex rules, we'll all need to be flexible / patient methinks.

[otthegreat]

Yes! I was finally able to upload my god! I feel better than I have in days. The impossible has been accomplished!
This merits many smiley faces: http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

[moderation]

Loi. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Psycho]

I'm speaking for Executor (MA Ctis) - his computer is dead and he won't be able to play this game. I took over one of his games, but can't take this one.

[Folket]

I can play MA C'tis as well...

[moderation]

I'm coming down with an illness and may be unable to play for a few days. I don't want to hold up the game start though so I may have to look for a short term sub after I get my pretender uploaded and I wanted to give advance notice.

[Zeldor]

moderation:

Here maybe I can do first couple turns for you as that is 5 minutes a day http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Though just couple turns.

[Folket]

Still, let us just start the game. We can do with one less evil. Evil is about to loose anyway =P.

[Fal]

Folket said:
Still, let us just start the game. We can do with one less evil. Evil is about to loose anyway =P.



Very true...still we will take down a few good guys with us Muhaha

[Foodstamp]

We are getting pretty close to the start day. Do you guys have any questions concerning the rules? I would like to have everything resolved beforehand so there is no controversy during the game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

Are we clear on what is considered an exploit and what is not? Are we clear on the faction rules? If you have any questions at all, please post them here and we will get them answered.

[Cerlin]

When is the start date? This wednesday? Im pretty set on the rules myself.

[Tuidjy]

OK, time to make my pretender. Let me see whether I have it right.

Two mods enabled: "Single Age", and CB Complete 1.21
Gate Tools -> Create A Pretender God -> Early Age -> mid Pythium

Is that alright? I am quite afraid that we will start with different mods, and
mess up the first turn. It may be helpful to have the mods that we will be
using, with links. If that is already the case, I did not find it (300 posts
will do that)

[Cerlin]

That sounds right Tuidjy. Those should be the two mods that affect pretender creation.

[quantum_mechani]

If we drop an evil doesn't that screw up the secret enemies?

[Foodstamp]

Tuidjy said:
OK, time to make my pretender. Let me see whether I have it right.

Two mods enabled: "Single Age", and CB Complete 1.21
Gate Tools -> Create A Pretender God -> Early Age -> mid Pythium

Is that alright? I am quite afraid that we will start with different mods, and
mess up the first turn. It may be helpful to have the mods that we will be
using, with links. If that is already the case, I did not find it (300 posts
will do that)



Actually, that is not right. You need to use the global.dm and cb complete. I don't think it will have any negative effect on pretender creation though. Be sure to download the mod I created before the game starts though.

CU, do you mind linking to the mod in the original post?

Thanks!

[moderation]

So is that a total of 3 mods or 2 mods?

My guess is: CB + Global Nations + Single Age. Is this correct?

[Foodstamp]

Just the two. I am not really sure how people forgot about the fiasco where you tried using the all nations mod. It was the whole reason we created the new mod and restarted the server.

If you created your pretender with the all nations mod, it should be ok though. Just be sure that you have global.dm downloaded as per my post some ways back. Hopefully CU will attach it to the original post when he gets back.

If you have not uploaded your pretender yet, try to use the global.dm and the cb complete mods just to be safe. It should work without the global one, but the CB is a must.

[DonCorazon]

CUnknown said:
My IP: 97 dot 81 dot 86 dot 245
Port: 2001



Is it down now? Just tried to connect to upload TNN pretender but no luck.

[IndyPendant]

CUnknown is down. Swarm isn't working either. He'll fix it when he gets back from his trip--Wed or Thurs or so, iirc.

[Rathar]

Q_M If good manages to slay an evil nation and then all good die then the evil nation whose secret enemy was slain shall win. Otherwise as long as a single good nation survives (unlikely!) then you have no worries in that regard.

What foodstamp said regarding the mods required to create a pretender is so insofar as I understand things. Use CB and global.dm to create, upload and all should be good. It is almost statistically certain (The good magician Murphy's law dictates that that person shall be me..) that someone will screw up and.. but we shall cross that river if we come to it.

[Hoplosternum]

If I want to change my Pretender do I just load it up again? Or does the old one need to be removed and if so how?

Cheers

[quantum_mechani]

Rathar said:
Q_M If good manages to slay an evil nation and then all good die then the evil nation whose secret enemy was slain shall win. Otherwise as long as a single good nation survives (unlikely!) then you have no worries in that regard.


That much seems clear. However, as I understand it, enemies were already handed out, so I was just wondering if the person who got MA C'tis as enemy gets a free ride.

EDIT: Hoplosternum: Just copy over the old one.

[Folket]

Whoever is going to kill C'tis will just have to kill the guy that C'tis had to kill. Very easy.

[Hoplosternum]

Can't we advertise for a new C'tis? The game hasn't started yet so the new player gets to decide on his pretender.

We already have one extra Good power. And I suspect the cooperation vs no cooperation will be quite strong especially at the beginning.

[Zeldor]

Rather later it will get stronger. You can surely find new player here easily. I wish I had free time for that.

[Foodstamp]

Agreed, if the C'tis player is out, I will find us a replacement, any volunteers? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Anyone reading this, we could use a replacement for this game. You can play C'tis or any evil themed MA nation that is not already taken in the original post. Once we find a replacement, I will message the new player his/her secret enemy as well as update the person who is supposed to destroy C'tis.

[Tuidjy]

OK, can someone who knows which mods will be used, post a link?
I have designed my pretender, but do not want to start the game with the damn
'Pythium has cheated' message.

[Kheldron]

I'll be out for work on thursday and friday but if we start at this time (depends on ctis replacement if I read well), I'll try to find a friend irl for sub

[Hoplosternum]

Tuidjy said:
OK, can someone who knows which mods will be used, post a link?
I have designed my pretender, but do not want to start the game with the damn
'Pythium has cheated' message.



You want to have enabled:

Conceptual balance complete 1.21
Global nations (this is on page 12 Foodstamps post #593578)

Only those two should be enabled.

That is what has worked for me.

I have emailed them to you.

[Foodstamp]

Tuidjy said:
OK, can someone who knows which mods will be used, post a link?
I have designed my pretender, but do not want to start the game with the damn
'Pythium has cheated' message.



I thought I was pretty clear which ones need to be used. I hope our differences from other threads are not fueling your appearant annoyed state http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif.

[Sicaire]

MA Ctis is fine by me: I'd be glad to attend and embrace evil if you'll allow me.
btw i have a couple of games behind me, but i'm hardly experienced at mp games.
feel free to pick someone else if there are balance issues.

[Cerlin]

Yay! we got a replacement! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif Welcome

[Sicaire]

omg is this an instant messaging