About river crossings...

[Warhero]

Well I tried to start generated campaign as Australia (attack) vs. VC/NVA (defend) 1967-70 and 1st battle was river crossing. Ok, I chose my troops as usual (lot infantry and couple tank platoons etc.) and I started turn 1. Then I noticed that I didn't checked what kind of map it was and so I forgot to chose any barge carrier for tanks http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif.. Well, all inf units had boats as default but my tanks were forced to leave to the west side of river (and of course there were -3 deep hexes http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif...). And river was typical "from-north-to-south" and many hexes wide. Of course it was my fault but could it be any way possible to add some kind of note like "Attention! Don't forget to buy barge carriers for tanks (in case you want to use them)!" or something like that if AI will choose river crossing for 1st battle? I have noticed that AI will do this seldom, so I was not waited to see river crossing in this case...

Any comments about this?

[Wdll]

I don't know but I doubt it lol. As you said it is your fault, you could easily see the map, right? :-p

Perhaps you should take amphibious tanks just in case from now on.

[Marek_Tucan]

Or just take it as realistic situation - it usually took much longer than the average SP game time to establish a river crossing for tanks, while infantry was already on the other side securing bridgehead.

[Warhero]

Hmm how about adding some "fords/paths" into code that AI could locate couple into map? Ok, I know that all world's rivers not necessary have them but as random factor by times?

And to Marek: I know that it's realistic but it's quite frustrating to notice that all your tanks are unable to cross river if you have not thought/remembered to add barge carriers into your arsenal... And especially if you don't come to think which tanks/APC's are meant for driving in water too. As I said, river crossings seem to be quite "rare" in campaigns (especially as 1st battle), "land" battles are more common. If AI could choose river crossings as 2nd/3rd etc. battle, player could have "time" to take barges for later use;)... And some kind of announcement/warning could be nice anyway.

[Mobhack]

There is no "helpful hint" to remember to take engineers if attacking, since the AI may be inconvenient and place field defences either. Neither is there one to remember to buy flak, just in case the enemy is unsporting and buys air.

The River Crossing assault message is given to you up-front, plus it's available on the "Mission" key on the purchase screen as a reminder, and if you actually look at the game map with the "View Map" key - which is just above the mission key on the purchase screen, then you should notice the great big blue thing smack in the middle of the map?. (I cannot think of any reason to not examine the game map prior to purchase, and simply buy blind! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif)

Andy

[Warhero]

I understand your point Andy. But sometimes you can't remember to check all things at least once before start. Maybe I'm going too old for SP? Why not to choose whole new map from maplist too instead generated river map;)? Some modified river maps have even 1 ford for crossing... And how about river crossing battle with "land" map too;)?

[Wdll]

More like too lazy if you ask me :-p

[Marek_Tucan]

Mobhack said:
(I cannot think of any reason to not examine the game map prior to purchase, and simply buy blind! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif)



Adrenalin? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Randy]

Just think if you were a battalion commander and you forgot to check your map!

[Warhero]

Btw, how many barges you guys choose for your tanks (let's say 1 tank company)in this case (river crossing)? Just curious;)...

[Suhiir]

Personally I'd only buy about a platoon worth (4).
But then I tend to play the USMC a lot and other then tanks a goodly percentage of what they use is amphibious.

[Wdll]

How do you guys deal with streams (one hex rivers)? I get a high number of units immobilized there.
I know that there are bridge building units in real life (even in the greek army), but I haven't noticed any such units yet.
Suggestions?

[Marek_Tucan]

Forget bridgebuilding, takes time. Instead:
-avoid stream/swamp combination
-drive slowly
-search for hexes with -1 height - standard stream gets -2, -1 means ford, ie muchless sticking.

[Warhero]

Well has anyone ever seen that AI could make "fords" (-1 height) for generated river map? I have not ever seen that... Only for "pre-made" maps (made by players)?

[Marek_Tucan]

To my experience fords can be found on any stream. Sometimes only few, but haven't met PC generated map with streams without fords.

[Wdll]

So I am right there are no bridgebuilding units available in the game, right?

Had no idea about the "fords". I will be on the lookout for them. Thanks.

[Marek_Tucan]

A little help - they show on minimap http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Warhero]

Really? Every time or randomly by times? Sorry if I ask stupid questions but I have played seldom river crossings (in generated battles and more seldom in campaigns)...

[PanzerBob]

Stay awake during your Intelligence Briefing!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

Seriously though, we've all done things similar.

[Marek_Tucan]

Oh, you mean "streams" as in big rivers? I thought you mean those small one-hex suckers! So to be clear, small streams have -2 "Stream" or -1 "Ford" depth, big rivers (composed of "water" hexes) don't have 'em.

[Warhero]

Yes big rivers Marek;)... So it's clear now that they don't have fords. I must check maps more properly during campaigns;). Btw, it's really great option to get changed map if terrain/river etc. features are not as player want. I miss same thing in SPWAW (especially in campaigns) but it's another story...

[Randy]

For river crossings check out the Israeli OOB. There is a heavy amphibian called the Timsakh which is like the NATO M2 bridging ferry. You have to load your equipment/vehicles on it and then ferry it across a river. Also icon #3228 is a Russian GSP Ferry, which acts the same way as the Timsakh/M2 ferry. hope this helps.

[PanzerBob]

Another option would to edit a ford into a map and save in your maps. I generated a scenerio trying to see if the AI EN would try crossing a river on a stone bridge under fire or opt for a "ford" I "built" across the river with good cover each bank. I used beach and swamp terrain and got a reasonable effect. It was passable but like fords on a stream you can't just blaze across. In my scenario the AI EN tried both, they paid heavily on the bridge but had moderate success on my ford. The river was a 200m width.

Hope this might be of help.