Star Trek XI Plot

[Atrocities]

Spoiler Do not read.


A plot has been leaked regarding Star Trek XI. Do not read if you do not want to be informed. This is not a joke.

Romulan, Niro, finds the Guardian of Forever and goes back in time to kill Kirk. Spock of TNG era goes back in time and tells his younger self about the plot to kill kirk. Using that information the Spock of TOS era saves kirks life.

[Kana]

Great another dumb time travel plot. Why can't it just be as simpile as early-before TOS character development stuff.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

I think you mean TNG. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I might point out that the Gaurdian of Forever is *Intelligent*. Far more intelligent than a mere mortal. Far too intelligent to let some lunatic go back to kill history.

[Randallw]

I think I learned that 3 or 4 months ago. What makes less sense to me is that the teaser has engineers welding the Enterprise together. It's like in the future people evolved beyond the necessity of actually needing to breathe. In the TNG you couldn't go beyond a handful of episodes without having to make repairs while in space. Bit hard to weld in sapce I think.

For me TOS has only one admirable quality. It created ST so we could have it these days. I find it on the rare occasion I've ever seen an episode to be old, cheap and over acted. I read a page about tv plots yesterday and it had the subject of the crew of a show have to go somewhere and find out what happened to the ship sent before them. There was something like 20 epsiodes of TOS that used the same plot. I hear there are something like 8 epsiodes that involve an arena fight as the main plot, and don't get me started on the epsiode where they find a planet with a fight between Yangs and Congs and discover the sacred holy document is that US declaration thing. ok I'll admit it's an american show, fair enough, but I'm surprised it does as well interantionally with it's US bias, what with the whole point being humanity has overcome nationalism and division. At it's worst extent you get movies like National Treasure. Nice movie the first time I saw it, if irritating, but I couldn't bear to sit through it all a second time.

[Atrocities]

TOS has many more than one admirable quality. Have you happened to see any of the re-mastered version? With updated SFX the show really takes on a whole new feel. TOS is still the standard by which all Star Trek is measured and will be for all time. The feel of that show has never been successfully duplicated, just slightly emulated to some small degree. TNG, DS9, and even Voyager as well as Ent had to adopt the TOS formula in order to improve ratings over all. The TOS series had a real future feel to it with a measure of intelligence that even by todays standards is lacking in all of the spin offs. The military sense of nobility, the value paced in ones character, the ownership of the ship and the mission, none of that has come through all that well in TNG. Hell they toasted the Enterprise D and not so much as a whimper was passed by the audiance when compared to the utter shock of seeing the original Enterprise burning up in orbit and the joy at seeing the new Enterprise A in the next movie.

People laugh at TOS now, but thats just because they have grown up in technological age and the technology concepts of TOS are so far out modeled by todays tech that it sometimes seems silly to us. But for its time, its time, it was truly a wonderful show. So when people get down on it, that tends to piss me off. After all, look at all the people who have invented things and become valuable scientist of today all because of that old and silly TOS series.

TOS has always had the mature and modern human feel to it that one could believe would be the way humanity would advance and act in the future. High morals, and a no nonsense military adaptation of a future that many more Star trek fans than not consider to be the best of the best of Star Trek.

They would not be going back to make a TOS movie of the original series if there wasn't a demand for it. If you don't get the old series, or feel that its just simply horrible, well then, don't go see the movie. Those who say that the acting in the series was bad really don't know what the hell they are talking about. And I challenge them to say that they do in a room full of real star trek fans. They won't get out alive. And for the record, acting back then was a different kind of business than it is today. Today its all about the sense of self entitlement while back then it was just a job. Today its a spectator sport filled with over paid poor quality, selfish, childish, silver spoon, yuppie, mean, and condescendingly rude people who, for the most part, believe that they are better than the rest of us and therefore rightfully entitled to the prestige of being on the Hollywood mantel and worship as well as being idealized by millions of lowly peasants as great actors, when in all truth, they haven't earned the right to be called actors let alone any ones respect.

When I was a kid, my hero was Captain Kirk. I ask people of today who their hero's are, and they either don't say or they say Sponge Bob. Sponge Bob.... *shakes head* Sponge Bob.

[gregebowman]

Ditto on that. I feel sorry for my son, who (because I think he's being conditioned by my wife) doesn't even watch sci-fi, especially Star Trek. I was watching some of my BSG season 3 the other day, and he watched maybe about 1 minute of it before he got restless and left the room. I feel sorry for the youth of today who would rather watch Sponge Bob than Capt. Kirk, and some of the other sci-fi heroes.

[Combat Wombat]

Could just be because the new BSG sucks worse than the new one. As a youth of today that loved TOS, TNG, B5, SG-1, Farscape, etc.... I found the new BSG to be filled with the most unrealistic dialogue and character interactions akin to the worst soap operas.

And back on topic
I have never seen a prequel I've liked and I suspect this horrible thing they call Star Trek XI will be much the same.

[Renegade 13]

While I did and do enjoy the original series, there is one aspect in particular that's always bothered me... Kirk's astonishing ability to get with a different woman on nearly every episode! Unrealistic that women fall all over themselves for him? Oh yes. Very.

[SteveA]

Randallw said:
... Bit hard to weld in space I think...




It's a bit harder to weld in a non-inert atmosphere. Both arc-welding and oxy-acetylene welding work just fine in space. It's the service call that's a killer....

Steve

[Atrocities]

Renegade 13 said:
While I did and do enjoy the original series, there is one aspect in particular that's always bothered me... Kirk's astonishing ability to get with a different woman on nearly every episode! Unrealistic that women fall all over themselves for him? Oh yes. Very.



I love in Stargate Atlantis how McKay is always comparing the lead soldier guy to Kirk. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Lets face it, women love a powerful guy in uniform, regardless of the galaxy or time in your in. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Atrocities]

And for the record, THEY WEREN'T welding in space. http://www.startrekmovie.com/

Remember the ship was build at the San Francisco Ship yards. JJ Abrams is a huge trek lore fan so he wouldn't blow a detail like that.

[Azselendor]

I'm sorry, but I think you're a bit off there. Guardian of Forever will not be in the film. Harlan Ellison owns the rights to the character and is not gonna let it be in the film without all due royalties.

Here's a vid, he's in classic form here for the WGA strike. NSFW for langauge. Star Trek relevant parts start at 1:30 roughly

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzeZ4ReUia8

[Randallw]

Hey you know how in "City on the edge of forever" they find the Guardian amongst a city filled with ruins (well yes budget constraints limited it somewhat). That's because someone doesn't know ruins from the phrase "A city covered in runes"

just in case you didn't know that.

also I read Harlan Ellison wrote some nice Star Wars novels http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

(no not really, but try complimenting him on them)

[Atrocities]

Azselendor said:
I'm sorry, but I think you're a bit off there. Guardian of Forever will not be in the film. Harlan Ellison owns the rights to the character and is not gonna let it be in the film without all due royalties.




Thanks, but I am just reporting whats been posted on the net. And remember, there is no such thing as exclusive rights when it comes to Star Trek ownership and licensing. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Interesting video though. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Azselendor]

Actually, the legal aspect of character ownership on TV was very different in the 60's and 70's. Writers often got to keep overall ownership of one-time characters to earn residuals if the studio reused the characters in later productions.

Harlan Ellison owns the characters he created for that episode of star trek in their filmed appearances meaning any filmed appearance done for profit must kick him some money.

Theodore Sturgeon owns the rights to T'Pau character and was originally to be a main character on Enterprise, but due to legal concerns (royalties) the character was turned into T'Pol and the T'Pau character was recycled for a one-time appearance on Enterprise and background mentions in previous series.
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/T%27Pau#Background

[Atrocities]

Well no matter, filming started last year so if there was a "issue" then it would have already been resolved. And who knows, this whole plot thing could just be some gimmick to throw people off. A great joke on us. More info will come out later and then we will know for sure.

[Xrati]

I hope it's not like the remake of "War of the Worlds" where the aliens lost again!!!!

[Atrocities]

Ok now I am seriously worried. I saw Cloverfield tonight, and it was one of the worst movies I have ever had to sit through. I actually demanded my money back after having to endure this God forsaken movie for nearly 2 hours. I mean drop dead, shoot me in the [censored] head this movie was horribly horribly bad. And to boot, it was intentionally made worse. OMFG this movie sucked so bad that it could easily out suck the pull of a a black hole. I mean this movie was bad bad bad bad bad just [censored] plain bad.

If you want to sit around for an hour and a half watching shaky video camera footage of people running scared through the streets of New York while some huge octopus devours the city, then this movie is right for you. It had no plot, it was just bad bad bad bad bad x 10 to the billionth power awful.

The SFX were cool though, and some of the shots were quite entertaining, but the over all flow of the movie was so unbalanced that it became as frustrating to watch that I'd rather be knocked unconscious and have my right kidney removed with a dull butter knife by a Cambodian street surgeon.

And JJ Abrams is now in control of the entire future of the Star Trek Franchise...... [censored]!

[Randallw]

I didn't even bother with it. I read that you never get a good look at the monster with it half covered by buildings or so. Since as far as I was concerned the rest of it could go hang I didn't waste my time. Anyway you can google (not at the moment though, it seems) the monster now and see what it looks like and you don't have to see the movie. I've never been a fan of J.J.Abrams work anyway, well apart from one season of Lost but then It drove me off. Likewise I don't like Joseph's programs either.

PS. oh no I just realised J.J.Abrams is making the next Star Trek movie, ahhhhhhhh!

[Atrocities]

Hum, Lost, OMG ... Star Trek is going to become the new LOST in space!

[Azselendor]

Based on the plot details I've heard thus far from around the net, I have no faith in the film, but I will give it a fair chance.

I know it'll turn out better than if they had given the controls back to brannon braga and rick berman.

I personally was in favor of the romulan war trilogy that was green lighted for production only to be killed by a regime change at the studio.

[Randallw]

Atrocities said:
Hum, Lost, OMG ... Star Trek is going to become the new LOST in space!



hopefully they don't add space monkeys just for the merchandise op.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Fanon. Fanon Star Trek can be awesome.

Of course, it can also stink horribly, but at least you've got a choice of which to look at.

[Renegade 13]

Atrocities said:
...it could easily out suck the pull of a black hole...

...I'd rather be knocked unconscious and have my right kidney removed with a dull butter knife by a Cambodian street surgeon...


Atrocities, my friend, you have a way with words that just makes me laugh http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif Love it!

[AgentZero]

I actually enjoyed Cloverfield quite a bit. I went in with an expectation that I was going to be watching a monster movie, and with a set expectation as to what a monster movie was: Big nasty beast for some reason shows up, smashes the crap out of stuff, kills a whole bunch of people and then gets killed, maybe. And that, to a T, is Cloverfield.

There's no real plot because everyone just runs away and/or is killed. There's no character development, because no one lives long enough (and frankly, the destruction of a city by a giant lizard allowing a character to come to terms with a childhood trauma would be approaching a Uwe Boll level of pretension).

Lots of stuff getting broken/blown up, lots of yelling and screaming and a big nasty is all a monster movie needs. And I suppose it's a matter of aesthetics, really, but I liked the handycam approach to the whole thing. I'm rather bored with the current fixation on showing absolutely every single detail from every possible angle in resolutions so crisp you can see the goosebumps on the hero's arm for 50 yards away.

It's just so... Clinical. Flat. Boring. Souless.

If Cloverfield had been done in the current style of films, when the characters that were being followed around were running down the street yelling, "What the hell is that?" Instead of being right there with them thinking, "I don't know! What the hell IS it?!", we'd be thinking, "It's an alien life form brought here inside a meteor 5000 years ago. It was stirred from it's cocoon by underwater nuclear tests and it has come to the surface looking for food. It is confused and frightened by it's surroundings, and that is why it is lashing out violently."

And when they wondered, "How can you kill that thing?" Instead of wondering the same thing, we'd be thinking, "Well, one of the fighter pilots did find a weakness in it's armor and exploit it, but no one knows about that right now because the monster managed to destroy the plane. There's also a wound it sustained while freeing itself from it's cocoon, and thanks to CSI-style zoom in effects and an apparently unrelated scene at the start of the movie, we know that there's a scientist nearby who has invented a chemical that causes the kind of bacteria infecting the monster to grow at an incredibly high rate, so that would be an option too, if our heroes manage to rescue the scientist and bring her (statistical probability be damned, it'd inevitably be a woman) to the military command post, where she'd have to convince the General that her crazy plan really will work."

The omniscient viewpoint works well for some types of film, but monster movies aren't one of them. Long winded expositions where all is revealed in painstaking detail belong in legal thrillers or spy movies. In a good monster movie, I don't have a clue what's going on, and frankly I don't care if you don't tell me, because something big just blew up.


Edit: Just realized the irony of bashing long winded expositions in this post. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Azselendor]

monster films is a genre that has been beaten to death more times than a zombie. I recall JJ abrams said cloverfield was born out of seeing a godzilla film and watching the little people run from it wondering what would be going through their head.

The only character driven plot in the whole film is the bits and pieces of footage from before the monster attack we see when the camera is dropped/dunked/eaten/molested/etc which serves to explain the actions of the main character.

The sequel to the film is supposed to follow another moron running around with a camera during the attack. (smart people run from monsters, not around them)

[Atrocities]

Correction, smart people with video camera's find safe vantage points for which to record steadily from. What pisses me off the most about people with video camera's is that every yahoo with one thinks he is a zen master making videographer. I have been in the industry since 1985, and I cannot tell you how many times I have been told "no my best friends brother's uncle has a new video camera, he's going to tape our wedding for free. We would like our money back." Two weeks later they come back, crying and all that, and ask me if there is anything I can do with the bouncy nasty video they got from their free wedding video. It is truly a sad sad thing. All because you have a guitar or a piano doesn't make you a music master. So why in Gods name would any one want to pay $8.50 to ticket to sit through two hours of intentionally badly made video of stupid people running through New York while a giant octopus is attacking the city? Next it will be a video about people running from zombies. If I want to watch badly made videos, I will watch NBC news or youtube.

[Randallw]

I'll have you know I shot my sister's wedding : http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

actually It scared the hell out of me. It might be that everyone said I did well not only because they were trying to cheer me up, something I always suspect, but also because I was so afraid of messing it up I concentrated on filming and didn't pay much attention otherwise. The tripod we got helped too.

I also sculpted the roses on the cake.

A saying in our family is you get what you paid for. Satisfaction guaranteed or your money back. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Azselendor]

trying to find a safe vantage point to tape the monster! what! No, run from the damn monster!

As for cloverfield, I suspect videotaping while fleeing doesn't work out too well. I suspect you also said the same of Blair Witch http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

As for the rest of your post, I sympathize. My brother in-law stylizes himself as a professional musician / voice actor / singer. No one can convince him otherwise. Even when his customers slug him in the face for whatever that sound he makes is supposed to be.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Azselendor said:
trying to find a safe vantage point to tape the monster! what! No, run from the damn monster!

As for cloverfield, I suspect videotaping while fleeing doesn't work out too well. I suspect you also said the same of Blair Witch http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

As for the rest of your post, I sympathize. My brother in-law stylizes himself as a professional musician / voice actor / singer. No one can convince him otherwise. Even when his customers slug him in the face for whatever that sound he makes is supposed to be.


[GI-Joe]Kids, this is why you don't base your self-respect on something you do. Especially something you don't do well.[/GI-Joe]

[Azselendor]

I stopped arguing with him about his <sarcasm> stunning </sarcasm> music career. He's 31 years old and I'm sure his career will take off once he finds a music label dedicated to serving the deaf.


Anyhoo.

Moral of the story is run from monsters while other people stop to videotape it. They'll slow the monsters down enough to allow you to make a safe getaway.

[Randallw]

You don't have to outrun the monster, just the other guy.

[Renegade 13]

And if you can't outrun the other guy, trip him.

[Xrati]

An old saying goes "If you can run 40 mph, a monster (it was originally about bears) can do 41!!!

[Atrocities]

You just have to be faster than the guy behind you.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

The safest place to be is an inland city.

...What am I doing here, anyway? This place is earthquake-prone!

[Atrocities]

You forget about the caldera's narf.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

...Inland city, solid bedrock, away from any volcanic activity, near fresh water and edible animals, defensible against zombie hordes...

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Azselendor]

Anyone here planning to see World War Z when it comes out? I'm looking forward to it if only to see what a Global War Against Zombies (G-WAZ) would look like. lol

[Randallw]

It's interesting but the movie isn't supposed to be for 2 years, if that. From what I know of the book it would be a mature rating with all the horror. I read people can't handle that zombies are real and lie down to die rather than deal with it.