MOD: Space Empires V - Babylon 5

[Ragnarok-X]

Im hereby announcing the Babylon 5 / Space Empires V Mod Project




Space Empires V
Babylon 5 Mod



General Concept:

The Mod will likely and obviously be heavily influenced by Val`s original SE IV mod.
Players can chose to play one of many babylon 5-races, both minor and major ones will be included. Adding the Ancients has not yet been decided but is likely to happen at one point or another, bearing a considerable tradeoff for their advanced technology.

Players will start with their respective homeworlds and from there on try to gain control of the galaxy. Econonical and military development will likely happen a bit slower than stock, though still at a reasonable rate (by no means as slow as proportions for example).

Main goal of the mod would be to offer a good gaming experience, delivering flavour and atmosphere of the original TV series. This means every major (Earth, Minbari, Narn, Centauri) and most minor races (Vree, Brakiri, Drazi etc) would be designed with their specific traits in mind, unique races with several race traits offering unique technology. For example, the Minbari homeworld would have a facility housing the Grey Council (given via race trait) while the Centauri would have the Imperial Palace on their homeworld. Expanding on traits, the Minbari would likely have facilites focusing on their psionic/wise/enlighten-theme, while the Centauri would be able to build facilies expanding their sabotage/espionage/warmongering theme. Of course all species would share the same „basic layout“ via mineral/organic/radioactive/research/intelligence facilites (add different names for flavour).

Another goal in planet development would be to create a system less of a no-brainer, making facilites take 1.5 kT or 2-3 kT of size instead of every single facility having the same exact „size“ of 1 kT.

A potential scenarior with facilites could be something where an **off**-atmosphere midsized planet would have ~ 10 kT of development size. Instead of ressource miners taking up 1 kT each, it would be possible to make ressource facilies have a size of 5, perhaps 10 kT each. This would help with managing planets (no more 20 build queues and 20 messages about a finished object in the planet log). I rather have a planet with two huge mining spots then having a planet with 8 small mining spots and 2 research facilites (common sense anyone?).

In addition, maybe there should be new facilty type indicating the amount of „urbanization“ on the planet. Something like „Settlement“, „City“ and „Megalopolis“. This facilites would have a very big size, kT-wise and would produce all kinds of ressurces (metal, org, rad, res, int), but at very low volumed compared to their mono-pendants.

Settlements could then be upgraded to Cities and Megalopolis, though it would make sense to incorporate requires into the upgrade, i.e. You cant upgrade settlement to city unless you have more than 25m pop. Names are pending btw. Just so you get the general idea.


I have not decided decided upon the general pace of development. Will you easily be able to artificially create new homeworlds (production output) like in stock, or will your homeworld always be your capital and have a huge benefit even compared to other fully developed worlds ? For the gameplays`s sake im thinking about something in between. Expansion and development should be pretty important, but a homeworld should always be unique and useful.



Coming next would be ship construction. I dont like how you can build a „space yard“ on your planets in stock, so i would like to make something different. Something i like would be to scrap space yards and give the above mentioned „Settlements“ a small space yard ability (more for higher tier`s of „Settlement“) and from there on work using population modfiers. Settlement with low population = very slow build rate. City with medium pop = good build rate. Megalopolis with maxed pop = overwhelming build rate.

Apart from building ships on planets, i believe that giving orbital space yards (station w/ base space yard) a good construction rate would be the way to go. I cant seem to remember if they ever showed where ships were produced, but i imagine orbial space yards are likely to be the way to go.. Basicly i would like people to build a bunch of orbital space yards using their „settlements“ and population and once done those yards get out ships.

Ship design would use QNP where bigger sized hulls require more propulsion and each engine offers a bit of propulsion. Small ship with many engines = fast, big ship with few engines = very slow. The more space a vessel has, the exponential more engines does it require. Unless you feel like an engine technican on crack, your big vessels will be slower than your small vessel.

Just like in the original mod, engines require power and you will need to fit reactors on your ships. These reactors are pretty big, have a bad size/structure ratio but not only store power, but they even generate power. Maybe there will be different sizes of reactors or different mounts, but bigger ships certainly will require more powerful reactors.

Unlike what stock B5 is suggesting, there will be no ships opening wormholes. I cant imagine the micro involved in outfitting ships with wormhole-generators , opening/closing wormholes etc.

You will still have to use the map-generated wormholes/gates, sorry.

Of course babylon 5 is all about combat (wo needs diplomacy ?) we need to think about space combat.
I want there to be vast amounts of weapons (certainly more than Anti-Proton Beams and Meson Blasters...), both pulse (fast firing energy „bullets“ and particle (think beam) ones. Some races will have unique traits for getting unique weapons, but most weapons will be researchable by every race. Due to the sheer amount of weaponry, in one game no two players should ever use the same weapons (because thats boring).

Even if differences of weapons will only be their look and a marginal chance in stats, i find this to be important.

At this point im thinking about PULSE and PARTICLEBEAM weaponry. Pulse weapons would be able to fire every round (maybe every 2 rounds, think about the gun on babylon 5 when it defended the narn vessel), but have less range and firepower and perhaps accuracy. Beam weapons would only fire all 2-3 rounds but have a good punch (imagine an Omega Destroyers firing its pulse weapons and each once in a while its juicy red beam).

For me it would be important to create a system where players DONT mount 10x the biggest beam they can, but stay canon and use pulse weaponry as well. Im not sure how do that, maybe give a limit to weaponry, depending on the size of the hull used ?

In regards to weapons, there would as well be the need for interesting armor.
I would like to do something where armor soaks up good amounts of damage, but every hit has the chance to damage internals. Think „LEAKY“. In addition, Each armor would be able to negate a small amount of damage.

Example:
Big Beam: 100 damage per hit
Pulse Gun: 25 damage per hit.

Armor
size 10 kT, structure 100 kT, negates 10 damage per hit.

In this example we have a decent armor with 1:10 size/hp ratio, Still, the beam hitting it would likely be able to deliver a small amount of damage to the internals (say, 30 damage). Against this armor, the beam would have an effiency of 90 % (10 damage are negated). Sounds good to me.

The weak pulse gun on the other han, has only an effiency of 40 %. Of the 25 damage it could do, 10 are negated by the thickness of the armor plating. However, the pulse gun fires every round, so which one would be more effective (not taking into account cost and size of weapons) in breaking the ship ?

Researching armors would result in better size/hp ratios and in more „negation“.
I want ships to fire their pulse guns with minimal effect. I want players (and myself) to be happy once your beams have been cooled down and you can unleash more considerable firepower, if only for a moment, vaporizing their armors and destroying parts of their internal system.

Talking about hull design, i was always a fan of stocks „research bigger hulls“ system. You start with scouts and frigates and as you research you will be able to construct destroyers and cruisers (think Olympus, Nova, Omega, Warlock). Bigger ships would have more room for weapons and armor, but be slower and be more „clumsy“ in combat.

There may be new components indicating „crew“. For example, you may add an „Captain/Admiral/whatever“ component to the a ship. These components would not be stackable but give considerable boni to space combat. In order to make them less spamable, i would like to restrict them to „only X times per empire“. I dont want to see 50 Olympus corvetes with Admirals on board. In addition, these „components“ would give an incredible hefty maintaince disadvantage (i.e. Maintaince *500%).

While these vessels would be pretty powerful (20+% evasion and to hit for example?) they would be rare and mainly be added for flavour (think a fleet of 30 ships under the fleet command of a Warlock w/ Admiral)

Apart from shadows phase-shifting there will be no cloaking technlogy.
Im not sure about adding remote mining. Might be interesting i guess.
At this point i dont know about sensors (long-range), where they of any importance in the show ?
Psionics (i.e. Psi-corps, natual psionics like the Minbari ) will likely work like „captains“, being a „component“ and giving combat boni.









I would appreciate any comments or cristism.

[Raapys]

I've always liked the 'Settlement' idea, where you just really drop facilities as such and turn the entire colony into one facility which produces more and more as it grows.

Perhaps as an addon to this there could be facilities called for example 'Focus Field - Research', which would basically let you choose a specific area that colony should focus on. Makes sense on planets with a high mineral rating to focus on gathering those minerals, for instance. Or perhaps you want the colony to focus on building ships, so you build the 'Focus Area' that increases construction for that colony.

About the ancients, you could just pull them back to the stoneage and let them join in with everyone else. Stuff like Organic Technology could be something everyone would eventually get access to, if technologically advanced.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

So...Are the minbari going to go genocidal if you so much as scratch the pain on their ships? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Santiago]

FYI
Arpeegy over at the official forums has also been working on a B5 mod based on B5 Wars. Good luck with your version.

http://www.spaceempires5.com/en-US/node/5448

[Baron Munchausen]

If it produces a good Vorlon shipset, that alone will be worth it. The Vorlons had such cool ships. I wonder why they are so rarely made by all the ship makers. We've got all the other B5 races, even the Shadows. Aren't the Shadows' ships at least as difficult as the Vorlons' ships?

[Fyron]

I'd recommend veering away from the 80000 weapon setup of B5Wars, aka what the SE4 mod did and the route Arpeegy is taking. You only need a few flavor weapons for each race, all of which can serve unique and useful roles. When every race as 20 weapons to pick from, all you have accomplished is wasting a lot of modding time, since real choices will boil down to a handful of best weapons anyways. Plus, its actually possible to balance a smaller number of weapons. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Suicide Junkie]

Check out the CB-B5ism mod variant for one way to get a good atmosphere and a fair, playable game.


As far as ancients go, what about simply having a racial trait which reduces reproduction to zero?
Spend all the racial points you get from that on tech-boosting traits instead, and hey, you look like an ancient now.

PS:
I really hope you're not going to have a racial trait called "Minbari" as part of your scheme... that's really iron-fisty.


The more space a vessel has, the exponential more engines does it require.

Unless the exponent is 1.0 (IE linear increase in requirements), it is not QNP. A ship twice as massive should require exactly twice as many engines to perform the same.


As far as armor...
You'll need the SE4 damage mechanics to get the leaky armor you want.
In SE5, you have a choice between percentage based leaky (Always the same fraction leaks through, no randomness) or directional armor (distribute armor to the front, back, left and right)

[Ragnarok-X]

Before i begin actual work on my mod, can you tell if any of the things i have mind are not realizeable from a technichal point of view ?

Secondly, can you tell where the starting planets facilites are stored ?

[Captain Kwok]

HomeworldStartingFacilities.txt has a list of the facilities that are added to player's homeworlds.

[Atrocities]

Captain Kwok said:
HomeworldStartingFacilities.txt has a list of the facilities that are added to player's homeworlds.



But making changes to it doesn't really do anything at all. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[Ragnarok-X]

Atrocities said:

Captain Kwok said:
HomeworldStartingFacilities.txt has a list of the facilities that are added to player's homeworlds.



But making changes to it doesn't really do anything at all. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif



It does. I just made the first 3 facilites a space port :p

[Suicide Junkie]

It's not going to change existing games of course, but it works just fine.

[Ragnarok-X]

SJ, regarding your suggestion about armor: I take it i should use the %-based leaky system then or is there any chance to implement the SEIV (modded) one ?


EDIT: Is there a tool to make the creation of pop-modifiers easier ? I want pop modifiers to have a much bigger impact on construction rate and i dont feel like writing up 101 new modifers..

[Fyron]

You could implement a directional armor system along the lines of Gritty Galaxy mod.

[Captain Kwok]

Fyron said:
You could implement a directional armor system along the lines of Gritty Galaxy mod.


Which is fine if you are not interested in making an AI for the mod.

[Suicide Junkie]

Kwok; can the AI not work with named slots?

In GGmod, I have them all named things such as "forward edge", "forward", "core", etc.

[Fyron]

So long as you carefully craft the slot configuration file, I don't see why you couldn't have the AI add components in a proper ordering to get placed as needed. For example, simply put a loop of spaces around the edge based on how much armor you will have the AI place on that size ship, and add those armor components first.

[Captain Kwok]

This is what the AI can do:

It can add to the 3 default slots, Armor, Outer Hull, and Inner Hull. The function that adds components to a design will only accept the three built-in long constants that correspond to these types. So that rules out specifying custom named slots.

The AI can only add items to a design in two ways. Spreading from the top or the bottom, which really means start from the first slot or start from the last slot.

Of course, with a modicum of effort I'm sure better script functions can be provided by Aaron to allow more specific placement, but it can't be done well enough now to make the AI competitive with a GGmod type leaky armor.

[Fyron]

The slot placement is in the order they appear in the file, right?

[Captain Kwok]

The order would as numbered in the slot layout file.

[Fyron]

Then one could in theory carefully craft the slot layouts and design placement routines to program the AI to handle directional armor just fine. They'd need to always use the same number of armor components on each hull size. Certainly a lot more work than simple leaky armor, but doable.

[Fyron]

Relevant shipset updates:

http://home.spaceempires.net/article350.html

[Ragnarok-X]

Can someone do a quick explanation on the different armor abilities (normal, emissive) ?

Normal = nothing special, needs good size/hp ratio
Emmisive = in addition to size/hp ratio, the ability function will force the armor to negate X damage of every hit ?
Do these stack ?

Im not quite sure about what to make out of the stuff i posted a sentence earlier in conjuction with this quote from SJ:


"
In SE5, you have a choice between percentage based leaky (Always the same fraction leaks through, no randomness) or directional armor (distribute armor to the front, back, left and right)
"

[Fyron]

"Percentage based leaky" armor means using the DamageTypes.txt file to give penetration percentages for (all) weapons vs. armor components. Directional armor refers to ditching regular armor, and using high hp/kt components in outer hull slots (possibly ditching inner hull slots as well, to avoid the magic wall layer effect). Refer to Gritty Galaxy mod for directional armor.

All of the various abilities used by special effect armors in stock are defined in the modding doc. For example, Emissive Armor uses:

Component - Damage Resistance
This ability provides a damage resistance amount for a component. Any damage that is done to the component has this amount subtracted before it is applied.

[Ragnarok-X]

So, why cant i use the Scattering Armor ability in conjuction with an overall damage modifier ? (i.e. combine percentage based leaky w/ component - damage resistance) in order to achieve what my initial post suggested ?

[Fyron]

There is no Scattering Armor ability per se; its just armor with to hit defense bonus and scanner jamming.

You can do whatever you want.

[Ragnarok-X]

Dont get me wrong, i was just trying to understand why my initial idea wont work out, from a technical point of view. I believe someone said it wouldnt be possible in SEV.

"
Example:
Big Beam: 100 damage per hit
Pulse Gun: 25 damage per hit.

Armor
size 10 kT, structure 100 kT, negates 10 damage per hit.

In this example we have a decent armor with 1:10 size/hp ratio, Still, the beam hitting it would likely be able to deliver a small amount of damage to the internals (say, 30 damage). Against this armor, the beam would have an effiency of 90 % (10 damage are negated). Sounds good to me.

The weak pulse gun on the other han, has only an effiency of 40 %. Of the 25 damage it could do, 10 are negated by the thickness of the armor plating. However, the pulse gun fires every round, so which one would be more effective (not taking into account cost and size of weapons) in breaking the ship ?
"


Im asking once again, is this possible without TOO much work involved (i.e. scripting) ?
I really havent worked with armors at all. At this point im finishing the basic facilites and the QNP plus the economic model in general.

Thanks a bunch for your patience :p

[Fyron]

What SJ meant wasn't possible was SE4-style leaky armor with randomized damage penetration, since the component damage mechanics are different... Even SE5 directional armor is not quite randomized.

Your idea will work except for a random chance to damage internals. You could accomplish 10 damage negation via the Component - Damage Resistance ability, and a 30% penetration to internals via the Damage Types file (make sure to apply it to every "regular" damage type). There is no randomness involved in such a setup, however; every shot has the same damage reduction applied, and the same penetration percents.

Note that each piece of armor is treated separately. Damage is always applied in the order Armor components are laid out. If you have 5 armors, the first one reduces a 100 damage shot to 90, takes 90*.7 damage, and 90*.3 damage hits the next piece of armor. It applies 10 damage reduction and 30% of whatever hits it penetrates, and so on.

Note further that you can (and should!) make weapons do random amounts of damage, for some abstracted lucky hits and such.

Regarding scripting, there is no support for calling script functions mid-turn, or altering anything that already happens during the turn. There is certainly no scripting support for modifying anything that happens during-combat, sadly. All that is available is modding the AI, modding the effects of intelligence projects, and a once-per-turn run Events script. The Events script is used in stock to handle random game events, but it can be coopted to script other effects.

[Ragnarok-X]

I require a detailed tutorial on weapons lol. Compared to SEV, modding SEIV was a friggin piece of cake.

Im using Devnullicus Modtool and i basicly have no real clue what these do:


At Range Distance Increment
Min / Max damage at Range
Hit modifer at Range


What "range" are these single entries referring to ?

Im missing something like in SEIV where you could specify the exact damage range for each single square...doh.


What should i do if i want to make weapons work like in SEIV, i.e. they do 100 damage at point blank and drop 10 points for each square beyond.
How do i actually set up the range of a weapon ?

(20 + ([%Level%] * 5)) - (([%Range%] / 10) * 0.00) - iif([%Range%] > Min(80, (([%Level%] - 1) * 10) + 40), 20000, 0)

This formla drives me insane.

I realize it states the weapons damage (20 + level*5) lowered by range (10 less per range) but those if-function i dont quite understand. I assume its a modifier based on range, but thats it.

The SEV wiki was not of much help :p





EDIT: Will component placed in the ARMOR slot always act as armor and soak up all damage ? Because i had components placed in ARMOR but without the actual "component is armor" tag/ability and the ship did not suffer any hull damage before the actual armor component was destroyed.


Beam colors: I have a beam that should be colored red 255/0/0 but is actually colored green in game (beam 10)


In addition, will component in the outer section always be destroyed before stuff in the inner section ?




Regarding the armor thingy:

Number of Armor Types := 5
Armor Type 1 Name := Normal Armor
Armor Type 1 Penetration Percent := 20
Armor Type 1 Damage Percent := 0
Armor Type 2 Name := Organic Armor
Armor Type 2 Penetration Percent := 20
Armor Type 2 Damage Percent := 0
Armor Type 3 Name := Emissive Armor
Armor Type 3 Penetration Percent := 20
Armor Type 3 Damage Percent := 0
Armor Type 4 Name := Crystalline Armor
Armor Type 4 Penetration Percent := 20
Armor Type 4 Damage Percent := 0
Armor Type 5 Name := Scattering Armor
Armor Type 5 Penetration Percent := 20
Armor Type 5 Damage Percent := 0
Internal Damage Percent := 100
Facility Damage Percent := 100


Is this what you are suggesting in conjunction w/ the damage resistance = x components ?



Lastly, can designs be saved ? I always thought that saving your empire will save your designs as well, but it seems they wont appear once you make a new game with the .emp file ?

[Fyron]

Ragnarok-X said:
I require a detailed tutorial on weapons lol. Compared to SEV, modding SEIV was a friggin piece of cake.
...
The SEV wiki was not of much help :p



Was this article not helpful?

http://wiki.spaceempires.net/index.php/Weapon_Damage_Formula_(SEV)


Ragnarok-X said:
Will component placed in the ARMOR slot always act as armor and soak up all damage ? Because i had components placed in ARMOR but without the actual "component is armor" tag/ability and the ship did not suffer any hull damage before the actual armor component was destroyed.


It would appear so.


Ragnarok-X said:
Beam colors: I have a beam that should be colored red 255/0/0 but is actually colored green in game (beam 10)


Without knowing which bitmap file you are using, or what the bitmap effect is set up like (eg: RGB brightness levels), its hard to say.


Ragnarok-X said:In addition, will component in the outer section always be destroyed before stuff in the inner section ?


Yes, outer layer is a magic wall over the inner layer. We referred to this effect when discussing SJ's directional armor setup in GG mod.


Ragnarok-X said:Is this what you are suggesting in conjunction w/ the damage resistance = x components ?


Yes, that will cause that damage type to "leak" 20% of the damage through each armor component.


Ragnarok-X said:Lastly, can designs be saved ? I always thought that saving your empire will save your designs as well, but it seems they wont appear once you make a new game with the .emp file ?


IIRC that functionality is still broken. Given the much more complex relation between tech areas and components than in SE4, its probably going to take quite some work for Aaron to fix.

[Suicide Junkie]

Fyron said:

Ragnarok-X said:Lastly, can designs be saved ? I always thought that saving your empire will save your designs as well, but it seems they wont appear once you make a new game with the .emp file ?


IIRC that functionality is still broken. Given the much more complex relation between tech areas and components than in SE4, its probably going to take quite some work for Aaron to fix.

If only the designs were saved as independent files like they were in SE3...

[Ragnarok-X]

Figured everything out, thanks for the link Fyron. As a matter of fact i did not notice the detailed article regarding weapon formulas.

[Fyron]

Its linked from the relevant field names in the Components (http://wiki.spaceempires.net/index.php/Components.txt_(SEV)) article. Is that not clear enough? Not sure how to make it clearer.

[Ragnarok-X]

I will be more sensitive next time, sorry about that.


Now, a more important question. I cant seem to get the damage system to work.

I have this piece of armor:

Number Of Abilities := 2
Ability 1 Type := Component - Damage Resistance
Ability 1 Description := Negates any damage of [%Amount1%]kT or les
Ability 1 Scope := Space Object
Ability 1 Range Formula := 0
Ability 1 Amount 1 Formula := 4
Ability 1 Amount 2 Formula := 0
Ability 2 Type := Component - Is Armor Type
Ability 2 Description := Provides armor protection.
Ability 2 Scope := Space Object
Ability 2 Range Formula := 0
Ability 2 Amount 1 Formula := "Normal Armor"
Ability 2 Amount 2 Formula := 0


It is armor, therefor soaks up damage. In addition, it negates small bits of damage.
Now, as mentioned i want a bit of the damage to leak into the hull.
Im using a weapon with dmg type "normal".


DAMAGETYPES

Armor Type 1 Name := Normal Armor
Armor Type 1 Penetration Percent := X
Armor Type 1 Damage Percent := X


Now, how should those 2 values be set up ?
If i want a gun which does 100 damage to do 30 % of its damage to the internals, i obviously should set penetration percent to 30.
But what about the Damage Percent ? Should it be it 70 or 100 ?

I have various different things, but in fact NEVER was damaage spread to the internals without the armor being first 100% destroyed.

[Fyron]

Ragnarok-X said:
I will be more sensitive next time, sorry about that.


I was actually asking a serious question. I wasn't offended or anything. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif


Ragnarok-X said:
But what about the Damage Percent ? Should it be it 70 or 100 ?


Damage Percent is multiplied against the damage done to the armor component (IIRC after the Penetration Percent is removed). Setting it to 0 means no damage at all is done. Setting it to 70 means 30% of the damage will be dropped (in addition to the 30% that passes on to the next component). You should probably set it to 100.


Ragnarok-X said:
I have various different things, but in fact NEVER was damaage spread to the internals without the armor being first 100% destroyed.


As stated previously, damage has to go through every armor component, in the order they were added to the ship, before anything gets to the internals. If you have 10 armor components, a 30% penetration percent will not get all the way through. Assuming Damage Percent is set to 100, Armor 1 will take 70% of the hit's damage. Armor 2 will take 21% of the hit's damage. Armor 3 will take 6.3% of the damage, and so on.

If you want really leaky armor, try setting the penetration to a high value, like 90.

[Suicide Junkie]

To calculate how much damage will be absorbed by the armor:
(penetration factor) ^ (number of layers)


For example: 5 layers of armor that each leak 70% of the damage through (70% penetration = 0.7)

0.7 ^ 5 = 0.168

Therefore, only 17% of the damage will make it all the way through those 5 layers.

[Ragnarok-X]

Regarding the weapon to hit modifier formula. How would i go about capping it at some point ?

I want a gun that gets a to hit bonus when being away from the target:

[%Range%] / 2


However, i want it to be capped at 25 or what.

[Fyron]

If you look on page 53 of the modding doc, you will see some useful functions. Min is what you want in this case. It will return the smaller of the two values.

Min([%Range%] / 2, 25)

[Arralen]

Ragnarok-X said:
Apart from shadows phase-shifting there will be no cloaking technlogy.



But the Mimbary had some kind of that on their fighters .. there are instances with terran pilots saying those where near impossible to pick up on (combat) sensors, and there's an episode where -what-was-his-name- sneaked his fighter into the centaury fleet and even "docked" with some capital ship ... .

[Arralen]

Fyron said:


However, i want it to be capped at 25 or what.


If you look on page 53 of the modding doc, you will see some useful functions. Min is what you want in this case. It will return the smaller of the two values.
Min([%Range%] / 2, 25)



As he wants a cap, he would need a MAX function .. if there's any (dunno, never read that doc). ;-)

[Suicide Junkie]

Max would provide a minimum value. (It never goes below X)
Max( X , SomeValue) Returns the bigger of the two.

Min provides a maximum value. (It never goes above X)
Min( X , SomeValue) Returns the smaller of the two.

[Fyron]

Arralen said:
"As he wants a cap, he would need a MAX function .. if there's any (dunno, never read that doc)."

Ah, the trap of function naming. Catches up everyone when they first think about using Min and Max functions. Gotta love reverse logical thinking. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Timstone]

Hi all!!

Hi RagsX! How are you?
I'm glad and surprised you are going to start with a new version of the B5 Mod. I must say I've become a bit afraid of the Mod. It has prevented me to start on it again (that and too little time). I still remember very clearly how much time it consumes to get a little bit closer to the completion. That doesn't mean I'm not ready to help though.
Maybe I can be of assistance to you? Maybe in creating text for the different races you want to implement? Or any other job you have in mind?
Mind you if the job will consume too much time I must respectfully decline, I can't be of any help to you if I don't have the time to finish the task you give me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

I hope you want my help, if not no hard feelings. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

[Ragnarok-X]

Hey Tim,

great you see you around. It must have been at least 2-3 years now huh :p

Anyways, SEV is just superior to SEIV, at least from a modding point-of-view. On the other hand, modding SEV is so much more difficult and time-consuming, just WOW. Yesterday i spend 3 hours and made little progress, mainly because i always had to start the game from new to test stuff...

However, im still a big fan of B5 and i just cant let it go.

Anyways, if you like contributing, i could certainly use some help. You suggested some writings, so why dont you come up with some nice racial techs/descriptions for the races ? Since flavour is most important, i require as much racial trait as possible. If you have ideas on racial techs and especially racial buildings, brainstorm and write them up. Should me funny and will help me.

Everyone is welcome to contribute suggestions and/or thoughts in general.

[Fyron]

The best suggestion I have is to start small... Don't try to implement anything from Babylon 5 Wars (pretty much ever; its an unwieldy, complicated mess), don't try to just port the SE4 mod. Start with the core races, and only give them 2 or 3 thematic weapons each (it's AOK for there to be a set of weapons everyone can use). Try to have as many shared items as possible, especially in the more basic stuff like ship sizes, armor, and engines. Don't try to make a per-race set of unique thematic facilities from the beginning; get a core set of facilities working first. Once you get the core working, you can think about adding more auxiliary races, weapons, and specialized racial armors/etc. Basically, plan out a roadmap, where the first few milestones feature primarily universal, shared items. Save the nitty-gritty details for later, and you'll be able to get much farther, faster.

And most importantly... post the milestone builds for early feedback! Don't think you must get the mod "complete" before sharing it. Release early, release often.

[Timstone]

RagsX:
Woot! Okay, I´m in... again. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif
Nice to see all the big players are still around.
I´ll see what I can do to whip up some racial descriptions. I´ll start on the major races first.

Fyron:
Great advise! This is certainly the way to go. The biggest threat is that you don´t see any progress, that discourages a mod-builder pretty fast. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/Sick.gif

[Ragnarok-X]

Yeah, Fyron and SJ and Kwok have certainly been helpful so far http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif Especially Fyron who didnt get tired of me asking stuff. He is right though, instead of working on all fields at the same time, one should focus on goal after goal. For me that means completing

- Economics
- Ship Design
- Research Fields
- Racial Stuff

in that order on a basic level, afterwards adding in more details and stuff. Once the basic layout is done, its pretty becomes a copy and paste job, though not to be underestimated.


Atrocities has created a bunch of very fine looking weaponry pictures, perhaps he will paste them to tease you. I take it those pictures will be added to the image mod, so he is actually aiding the community in general as well.



EDIT: A quick links to a screenshot from another Babylon 5 Mod (Homeworld 2).
These look gorgeous.

LINK
Warlock (http://daedalus.f2s.com/HW2B5TC/screenshots/WarlockWeapons00.jpg)


Think
SEV = Strategic Level
HW2 = Tactical Level

[Timstone]

RagsX:
I've send you a PM.

[Ragnarok-X]

Not yet :p

[Timstone]

Holy crap! That was fast! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

Edit: I'm turning in for the night. I'll read your response tomorrow.

[Fyron]

Alright kids, if you've got something so important to say on that note, you can read it in front of the whole class.

[Ragnarok-X]

Here comes another one. I fear this will be pretty difficult.

How would i go about adding a new empire and forcing to select the new created "Narn Regime" trait ?

I figured its something with the scripts. Script files call Racial traits from Script_AI_GlobalConstants_RacialTraits.txt but i cant seem to add a new constant

AI_RACIAL_TRAIT_NARN_REGIME string := "Narn Regime



Would anyone be kind enough to give step-by-step explanation ?

I seem to have a general idea about those scrips, but not enough to get it to work. I assume you somehow load a file into the parser, edit it and hit complile and it should throw out a bunch of new files you need to put into the appropriate "empire" folder.


How exactly would i go about telling my new empire (i.e. within the empire folder is the "narn" folder with ship files and a bunch of .txt, but none of those cover racial trait decisions).

[Captain Kwok]

Add the constant for your new trait as you've already done. Then copy one of the [EmpireName]_Setup_Script.txt files and rename it Narm_Setup_Script.txt. You'll see a function in that file that chooses the racial traits for that empire. Replace one of them with your new trait constant - in this case you'd want it to be added first. Open the Narn_Setup_Script file with the Script Parser and hit compile. It will make Narm_Setup_Script.csf, which you can then place in your Narn empire folder. If the game picks the Narn as an AI race, it will choose your trait.

[Captain Kwok]

The Wiki has some more coverage on how the scripts work in general:
http://wiki.spaceempires.net/index.php/AI_and_Script_Editing_%28SEV%29

[Ragnarok-X]

Got it, thanks.

[Ragnarok-X]

A few quick questions:


Is there any way to alter a ships speed in combat ? It seems the movement speed of the vessel is always proportionally tied to its system-movement speed. Any way to change this ?

Even though my mod folder has only 2 empire files (EA, Narn), the AI creates new games with stock races. How can i tell the game to ONLY use the custom races inside the gametype folder ?


Is there any way to make buildings "unbuildable" ? I.e. make homeworld facilites unique ?

[Fyron]

Ragnarok-X said:
Is there any way to alter a ships speed in combat ? It seems the movement speed of the vessel is always proportionally tied to its system-movement speed. Any way to change this ?


There are bonus movement abilities available. I don't think the formula that determines base movement as a function of strategic movement is modifiable though.


Even though my mod folder has only 2 empire files (EA, Narn), the AI creates new games with stock races. How can i tell the game to ONLY use the custom races inside the gametype folder ?


There is a line in the Mod_Definition.txt file that determines whether stock races can be used. I forget the name.


Is there any way to make buildings "unbuildable" ? I.e. make homeworld facilites unique ?


IIRC homeworlds can start with facilities unavailable for construction, if you add them in the homeworld starting facilities data file.

[Ragnarok-X]

Yet again, i have a problem.

I have both the EA and NARN empire files in my gametype folder. I start a game w/ 2 players and everything is fine until a combat happens or i open the combat simular (ground/space does not matter).
Instead of opening the combat screen, i get an "index out of bound" error and SEV crashes.
Note that this happens when i enforce EA and NARN (allow stock races: FALSE).

Once i enable stock races, everything is fine. Even with EA and NARN and lets ay Eee in the game, combat works and so does the simulator.

Any idea why the game enforces the use of stock races in this case ?

[Fyron]

Maybe you just need more than 2 shipsets available. Try putting all of the B5 races in there.

[Ragnarok-X]

That was it. As soon as i had at least 5 empire folders in the gametype folder, it didnt crash anymore.


...

thanks !

[Ragnarok-X]

Fyron, how would i about scrapping the armor/inner/outer slot system and giving all ships only "outer" slots. I dont care if they are displayed correct (i.e. using SJ generic layout).

In addition, how would i go about making a certain building unbuildable ? Just set "allows usage" to FALSE ?

[Fyron]

The easiest way is to make a slot override file with SJ's slot modder, that has only what you like. Then, configure the mod to use the override, and ignore whatever is in shipsets.

The easiest way to make a facility unbuildable is to give it a level 10000 req in some tech. I'm not really sure what "allows usage" actually does.

[Ragnarok-X]

Perhaps i should ask SJ to modify his tool and add a single button which automaticly replaces all existing slots with slot X where X = armor or inner or outer hull.
I dont think i like the idea of manually adjusting a zillion of slots lol.

Thanks so far, Fyron.

[Suicide Junkie]

The easiest way to do that is to open the slot layout file and do:
Edit->replace. Inner Hull -> Outer Hull. Yes to all http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Fyron]

Do slots need to have unique names, or are duplicated names allowed?

[Ragnarok-X]

Anyone knows what an "invalid pointer operation" when opening the research screen aims to ? Without a proper error log file its getting kind of frustating.

[Suicide Junkie]

A common problem is giving a research area zero cost... check that they're all at least 1 point in price.

Fy:
GGmod has many duplicate names (Forward hull, Center hull, port hull edge, etc) and there's never been any complaint.

[Ragnarok-X]

I dont think i can follow SJ.

When opening your generalized slot override file, i dont see an option called "replace" once i hit Edit.

[Ragnarok-X]

Can ship training facility effiency be capped like in SEIV ?

[Fyron]

Ragnarok-X said:
I dont think i can follow SJ.

When opening your generalized slot override file, i dont see an option called "replace" once i hit Edit.


He was referring to a text editor's find/replace function.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Ragnarok-X said:
Can ship training facility effiency be capped like in SEIV ?


No, but it can be capped. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

There's an 'iif' command (Yes, that is the spelling) You'll find it in the weapons' damage formula.

That is, assuming the iif command works there, which isn't certain.

[Ironmanbc]

just giving this a bump (or are we done with this?)

[Randallw]

What, the B5wars mod? We started the second test game the other day.

[Ironmanbc]

cool how was the first game????

anything need fixing?

[Randallw]

There were a few things. Mostly it appeared that arpeegy wanted to refine the tech tree. If the player in first when we finished is any indication, then I'd say the Centauri won. Which was me by the way.

Of course we never got past the first turn, but still.... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

Actually that's probably indicative of something now I come to think about it. We have 3 Ancient races, and 6 or 9 younger races. Considering the Centauri were number 1 that means I was more powerful than the ancients http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/fear.gif. Now I'm 4th, once we restarted, so as far as I know the 3 ancients only are more powerful than the might of the Centauri Republic, which makes sense. Mind you the Minbari should be more powerful than me, though knowing my arch enemy is playing them we'll probably be about equal.