Global War (upgraded to 3.20)

[CUnknown]

Turn up!

We will be sticking to a strict 48-h policy from now on. This includes members from my own team, of course. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Basically, there will be no more extensions for anyone, short of a death in the family or something like that. The timer may still reset from time to time, if my computer has to restart. If so, we will stick to the stated time on the server, unless I post here saying otherwise.

So, basically, I'm saying that I will not mess with the game clock anymore. The time remaining on the clock is the amount of time you have. If it resets, well, I guess there will be some extra time for people in that case. Unless I state otherwise.

Another caveat -- if I lose internet for an extended period of time, of course to be fair I will extend the game clock.

[IndyPendant]

Well, I think advance requests of a short extension (say, by 24-48 hours) are fine, because we can all then plan around it. But random extensions without a time limit for a player that for an unknown reason (at worst, simple selfish laziness) cannot get their turn in on time, so that we have absolutely no idea when the next turn will pop? And not once or twice, but almost every turn? That bugs the hell out of me. We don't need to overcompensate in the other direction though. ; )

So may I be the first to applaud your new stance? Loudly and clearly!

I do have a related concern: the week starting June ?30th? I would like to ask that the game be switched to a 72-hour timer. That's only one extra day, and only for 2-3 turns. I'm going away for a week-long trip with only intermittent internet access, and will almost certainly stale out at least once if we maintain a 48-hour timer. Feel free to keep Quickhost on though; I will still try to make sure there are no delays!

[CUnknown]

That is the July 4th weekend, right? Sure, I don't have a problem with extensions for national holidays and stuff like that. I doubt anyone does. Of course not everyone lives in the US. But you get what I'm saying.

[DonCorazon]

Burninator,

Before you send any more slayers to their deaths, you should know by now that the sidhe think your horror spam are cute wisps of cotton candy that make the elflings giggle.

TNN

[Kheldron]

I'm also perfectly fine with short extensions requested in advance http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif
There's a world between a 72h-timer once in a while and what we lived through the last two weeks...

[Baalz]

DonCorazon said:
Burninator,

Before you send any more slayers to their deaths, you should know by now that the sidhe think your horror spam are cute wisps of cotton candy that make the elflings giggle.

TNN



LIMP WRIST PRIME TALKS BIG FROM BEHIND THE BODIES PILING IN PYTHIUM AND ARCOSCEPHALE. THE BURNINATOR IS NO RAGING BULL TO BE GOADED INTO ACTING OUT OF HIS PLAN, BUT WORRY NOT FOR BURNINATION SHALL COME TO THE SPARKLE FAIRY BOYS IN ERIU IN GOOD TIME. CONTINUE TO PARADE THE BODIES OF OUR SCOUTS AND PROCLAIM VICTORY, WE ARE DUELY CHASTENED.

AS TO THESE SO CALLED HARBINGERS, LET US SEE IF 150% FIRE RESISTANCE IS SUFFICIENT TO SURVIVE BURNINANTION. THE BURNINATOR IS EVEN MORE CONTEMPTUOUS OF THE RABBLE RAISED IN ARCOSCEPHALE, I CERTAINLY HOPE YOU HAVE A BETTER PLAN THAN MARCHING ELEPHANTS AND ARCHERS INTO THE BURNINATOR'S PLAINS. THIS SHOULD PROVE DELECTABLE.

[DonCorazon]

Burninator,
You need to shave your eyebrows and get some product for your hair, not too mention some better fragrance - you smell like charred elephant.

And, don't think your six guides and psychotic ALL CAP postings scare the sidhe / we will keep listening to the Pet Shop Boys with our spiky hair and glitter jackets:


Sometimes you're better off dead
There's gun in your hand and it's pointing at your head
You think you're mad, too unstable
Kicking in chairs and knocking down tables
In a restaurant in a West End town
Call the police, there's a madman around
Running down underground to a dive bar
In a West End town

(I I I)
(Huh Huh Huh)
(I I I I)
(Huh Huh Huh-Huh-Huh-Huh)
(I-I-I-I-I-I-I-...)

- Fabulous Eriu, the Glam Nation

[moderation]

Bump. Just a reminder for Good team to respond to emails if they're not too busy.

I'd second Tuidjy and pass on the trash talk. However I'm surprised DonCorazon would admit to listening to the Pet Shop Boys. That's guts! Or something... I guess. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

By the way, I would submit my turn earlier, except for the fact that quickhost is on. I'd prefer the ability to change details based on new communications or just things I think of later on.

[CUnknown]

Next game, I am going to -require- trash talk!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Gandalf Parker]

CUnknown said:
Next game, I am going to -require- trash talk!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif


Personally I love those games. I enjoy the RPG (role-playing games) talk more than the spreadsheet strategist talk.

But as a moderator this seems a good time to mention that Shrapnel prefers that the public forum NOT be used for trashtalk about individuals. Purely as a GUIDELINE (not absolute to all cases) when talk shifts from nation talking about nation, or pretender talking about pretender, into login talking directly about another login... then we will be looking at a possible moderator action.

{/moderator]
Sorry for the intrusion.
I now return you to your regularly sheduled trashtalk http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[DonCorazon]

My perspective was this is humorous RPG - the metrosexual Eriu telling the charred Abysians they need to work on their style. Thus I addressed the Burninator, not Baalz, who I have the utmost respect for both his playing ability and personal hygiene. I guess my reference to his 6 guides may have crossed the line but again it was an attempt at humor as I am quite sure he will crush me here.

Anyway, Eriu is happy to go back in its quiet cave and sing the Pet Shop Boys to ourselves.

[Baalz]

THE BURNINATOR SCOFFS AT ERIU'S DECISION TO GO BACK INTO THEIR CLOSET, RAINBOW COLORED TAIL BETWEEN THEIR LEGS. THE BURNINATOR HAS IMPERVIOUSLY THICK MAGMA SKIN AND WAS QUITE AMUSED.

[DonCorazon]

The Sidhe are very sulky. We will be listening to Boys Don't Cry all day.

[moderation]

Please reply to the latest emails Goods. Also, Tuidjy, please respond soon. It looks like the game will host at 13:08 Eastern US Time, or 17:08 GMT.

[Baalz]

THE FLAMES CONSUME ALL. NEITHER ANGLES NOR ALLIES ARE ABLE TO SAVE PYTHIUM. THE SMOLDERCONE BELCHES BLACK SMOKE AS HARBINGER FEATHERS FUEL OUR FURNACES. THE SCHOLARLY PACHYDERMS FLEE AT TOP SPEED FROM THE BORDER AS THE CATAMITES IN ERIU FIND DEEPER CAVES TO HIDE IN. WILDFIRE SPREADS ACROSS THE PLAINS OF DEATH, AND THE WORLD BURNS.

[moderation]

From now on, the Sibyls have decreed that all official Arcoscephale press releases will be conducted in Lolspeak.

http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/i-will-defeat-you-general-grievous.jpg

[Rathar]

Don't forget the special communication rules present folks!

Die Nation X, Die!

[Baalz]

THE BURNINATOR IS DISPLEASED BY REPORTS THAT WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION ARE BEING STOCKPILED IN SHINUYAMA. THIS THREAT CANNOT BE IGNORED DESPITE THE JOYS OF BURNINATING THE FOOLS IN THE WEAKLING LANDS. LET THE BAKEMONO LEARN HOW TO LOOK FOR ROCKS TO HIDE UNDER AS TROGDOR IS UNLEASHED!

[Rathar]

I am on a working vacation till the 1st so my apologies if my inability to communicate is even more incommunicatible.

[Rathar]

El server seems to be down atm, alas!

[CUnknown]

It is? It shouldn't be..

[Rathar]

Murphys law has reared its head and I cannot connect to any dominions server.. All other internet things are fine, no firewall etc so all I can think of atm is to send you the file and hope you get it in time and can upload it to the server..

Sorry man tis all I can think of.

of course I don't have your email so I am attaching it here.. geh

[CUnknown]

Don't worry Rathar, it looks like Pythium, Shinuyama, and Arco also haven't taken their turns. Why is that? Is it hard to connect? What is going on?

[Kheldron]

Server is up but timer isnt

[Rathar]

Aaaand today it works with nothing at all changed.. Pesky internet!

[moderation]

Hmm, we might have a slight problem since Pythium's new player seems to have gone absent. We can get a temporary sub, but I'm not sure about our long term status.

[IndyPendant]

Would everyone be willing to go to a 72-hour quickhost for the next week, starting next turn? My vacation starts tomorrow morning, and I may not be able to keep up with a 48-hour timer. It's basically just for the next 3 turns. ; )

[CUnknown]

Unless there is popular disgust for slowing down the pace of the game, we will be switching to a 72 hour hosting schedule to accomodate IndyPendant's request. Also because it's the week of 4th of July.

Go blow something up! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Zeldor]

I will be extremely disgusted by something like that. Bleh.

[Kheldron]

I've got no problem with a 72h schedule but could you please host this turn BEFORE turning to a 72h timer ?
The turn was supposed to be up a few hours ago and now we're in for 70h more wait...

[CUnknown]

Yeah, turn is being hosted now. Turn up!

[Rathar]

I am fine with 72 hour hosting.

Kheldron, I sent you a forum PM. Sorry!!

In other news..

Ermor salutes valiant but defeated Tien-chi. Nice warring with you!

[Kheldron]

I had a cd key violation beacause my cd key was used in multiple installations and it made me stall!!
I don't understand, anyone?

I use my cd key on my computer at home and at office but that's been the case from the start...

Or could it be because I started them on one and finished them on another?
WTFH

[Baalz]

THE BURNINATOR IS EMBARRASSED. REDOING MY TURN I RETASKED SOME RESEARCH MAGES LEAVING ME A TINY BIT SHORT OF THE CRITICAL RESEARCH NEEDED TO LEVEL A CRUSHING DEFEAT TO THE ARCOSCEPHALE FOOLS. INSTEAD OF EVEN CASTING THE FAIRLY EFFECTIVE BONDS OF FIRE ON ELEPHANTS(WHICH WORKED WELL THE COUPLE TIMES IT DID GET CAST) THE SPELLCASTING AI CHOSE TO SPAM...RAGE. THIS HAD WHAT I ASSUME WAS THE DESIRED EFFECT OF CAUSING THE BURNINATOR TO RAGE AT THE BATTLE REPLAY.

[CUnknown]

Ulm must give a firm salute to Tien Chi as well. His staunch resistance to the Ermorian hoard has given the Good a chance at life. He has long defended our inner lands and he will be sorely missed.

Brave and Noble Tien Chi will live on in our hearts. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rant.gif

[IndyPendant]

Hmm, it turns out I didn't need the 72-hour quickhost after all. There was internet everywhere! Still, it was good to have no pressure during my vacation. Thanks guys!

It's over now except for the drive home, so I am able to go back to a 48-hour quickhost schedule again once this current turn is completed, in 4 hours or so.

[CUnknown]

Okay, we are back on a 48-h schedule.

[CUnknown]

Grr.. I know I said I wouldn't do this anymore, but since there are 4 people who haven't taken their turns yet, and only 1 hour left on the clock, I am going to give a slight extension.

I will host at 9pm EST tonight. It is currently 4:35pm EST. That is a 3 1/2 hour extension. I hope no one minds.

[Zeldor]

I did the turn! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

P.S. You didn't send what you had to send after all...

[Baalz]

Zeldor said:
P.S. You didn't send what you had to send after all...



YES I DID

[Kheldron]

Satyres and dryads alike wail as the flames rage through the arcane laboratory in their capital. Countless mages look stunned as their dreams are turned to ashes.
Why is fate so cruel at this point of the race...?

[CUnknown]

Must be the Burninator's doing, I think you should attack him. It was a Slayer special forces unit, must have been. It's the only explanation.

[Kheldron]

When I compare graphs with other games I've got running in MP, I must say I'm really impressed by what QM has achieved so early in the game, especially in research.
And especially since I took Shinuyama off a MA game by turn 15 in another MP game...really nothing to compare with.

GG QM ^^

[CUnknown]

QM's strength is impressive, but we still have to play it out. Remember that the Neutrals must kill every single other player in the game to win (i.e. standard victory condition).

The Goods must only eliminate the Evils to win -- it doesn't matter if QM has 5x the number of provinces that team Good has total, if all the Evils die, the Goods win (if they still are in possession of all their starting capitals).

The Evils must destroy all of Good + Neutral to win. This admittedly seems unlikely for them at this point, although it is not as tough a victory condition as the Neutrals have.

And remember that you (Pangea) and Ryleh are also extremely tough, as seen in the score graphs. It seems like you and Ryleh still have time to do something about Shinuyama, at least to me.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[quantum_mechani]

Hey, now, my research may have a big edge, but that isn't as useful as it appears. Research is a capped commodity, there is only so much to have, and eventually everyone is going to get it. So really what I have is small window to take advantage of it.

As for the gems, I really don't think anyone should be that afraid of the 60 water/fire gems per turn that make about 75% of my income. This is compared to R'yleh which I am reasonably sure has a much nicer mix of gems, and without worries of dispelling either. Not to mention we are fast approaching the late game where starspawn are superior to bakemono sorcerers in almost every way.

In any case, good still has all the nuetrals beat collectivly by quite a margin.

[DonCorazon]

I'll have to remember the old "research is a capped commodity" spin job for the day I am leading research by a magnitude of 100x. Reassuring to know that when Eriu catches up in ~ 30 turns we'll all be even. Then. In 30 turns. If we are alive.

[quantum_mechani]

Heh, seriously though, what am I going to do with all this research before other people catch up? I can't exactly build a SC army with just water and fire gems, and my income of other types is pretty pathetic. Battle spell wise I've already had about the best stuff my mages can cast for quite a while and I haven't exactly been mopping up.

[DonCorazon]

Fair enough. As one who once had aspirations of being a leading researcher and has since been forced to take his mages out of the library and onto the battlefield just to survive, your problem is one that I wouldn't mind having. But I appreciate you making me feel better that I should not be worried. Ahem. Cheers!
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/beerglass.gif

[Baalz]

quantum_mechani said:
In any case, good still has all the nuetrals beat collectivly by quite a margin.



INDEED, THE BURNINATOR IS AT AN ALL YOU CAN EAT BUFFET! MMMMM, WHAT IS COOKING NOW?

[CUnknown]

"Good still has all the neutrals beat collectively by quite a margin."

Umm... QM ... what are you smoking?? The only way the Goods have a chance (and we do have a chance) is that we only have to kill the Evils to win. Obviously killing all the Neutrals would be impossible for us. You three are far and away superior, even with our ability to work together. Fortunately, you three are not on a team.

Or did you mean, any -one- Neutral against the -entire- good team? Then, yeah, we still have you beat, I believe. But not by a whole lot.

If you combine our researches, we still aren't equal to you. If you combine our gem income, we still aren't equal. I don't think anyone is buying that "research isn't a big deal" or "all the gems I have suck" argument. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

But, even so, the other 2 Neutrals and the Burninator are also very strong. And as a group, Good is strong as well, so it will be interesting to see how it plays out!

[quantum_mechani]

CUnknown said:
Or did you mean, any -one- Neutral against the -entire- good team? Then, yeah, we still have you beat, I believe.


This is indeed what I meant. Combined with your easy win condition I think this puts good 'in the lead' but a substantial margin.



I don't think anyone is buying that "research isn't a big deal" or "all the gems I have suck" argument. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif



But you should! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif I can say with honesty that I'd happily trade positions with R'yleh, given their natural protection against invasion, diversified gem income, and better late game mages.

[Baalz]

CUnknown said:
Or did you mean, any -one- Neutral against the -entire- good team? Then, yeah, we still have you beat, I believe. But not by a whole lot.




THE BURNINATOR WOULD ALSO LIKE TO POINT OUT TO ANYONE WHO MISSED IT THAT THE FALL OF GOOD WILL NOT SIGNIFY THE BURNINATOR'S VICTORY - ONLY THAT HE IS THEN ON THEORETICAL EVEN FOOTING WITH THE NEUTRALS. ALL THIS WHINING, AND THE BURNINATOR IS UNDENIABLY IN THE WEAKEST POSITION OF ALL SUPERPOWERS. ALL NEUTRALS SHOULD SUPPORT THE BURNINATOR, FOR IF I FALL YOU ALL LOSE, WHILE IF GOOD FALLS THIS AVENUE OF DEFEAT IS CLOSED FOR YOU. NOW, I COULD REALLY USE SOME EARTH GEMS IF ANYONE HAS SOME TO SPARE....

[Kheldron]

Server seems down

[quantum_mechani]

Indeed, hopefully it didn't host while offline.

[Rathar]

Hmm The board and server has been down all day..
I am going on vacation tomorrow morning till Wednesday afternoon and was really hoping to get a turn in to make the delay shorter but.. I will try to pop something in in the morning but if not, sorry about the lameness and see you soon!

Off to the beach in mexico.!

Hmm well, here is my turn attached to this post.

[CUnknown]

Hey, no problem, Rathar!

Haha.. why do these things always happen to me? I've had a relatively unlucky past 6 months...

Lightning was traveling along the power lines in a storm yesterday and it totally fried the old house that I am renting's electric system. Nothing is working at the moment, even though the power company says the power is on.

I know my computer is fine, so that is a relief, but the cable modem is fried.. of course it's easy to go get another one (I was renting it), but there remains the no power problem.

Upshot is, the game is on hold, and I'm not sure when it is going back up. Hopefully soon. I will keep you all informed.

[Baalz]

If you have any reasonably easy way to get the game files off your computer and send them to me I can host in the mean time.

[CUnknown]

Wow, that is a good idea Baalz. I don't think that is necessary, though, because the power company came and fixed the transformer box thing. It was their fault after all -- the lightning damaged the box and it was sending the wrong voltage into my house. It fried my cable modem, but I got another one. Apparently, my router is okay.

The server is not yet up again, because there is some problem with initializing the new modem. The cable guy is going to come out tomorrow and fix it.

So, the server should be back up tomorrow. I will keep everyone updated.

[CUnknown]

The cable company says it may be a week before my internet is restored. I'm not sure what exactly happened, but my house is not receiving the internet signal since after that storm.

Perhaps I should send Baalz the game files so he can host. I think I will e-mail them over tomorrow.

[Kheldron]

Have you emailed stuff to baalz?
server still seems to be down to me

[Zeldor]

IT will be different IP and port when Baalz puts it on.

[Baalz]

I haven't received anything, if & when I do I'll supply the new server info.

[CUnknown]

PM me your e-mail address, Baalz. I can send them over.

[CUnknown]

I'm sorry that took so long, guys. But my internet is back up now. I put the clock back on 48-h quickhost (clock is reset).

[Kheldron]

The turn was due in one hour and suddenly the timer disappears...

[Kheldron]

In fact, It'd be really nice to know if Bandar Log and Arco are still playing this game as they've been staling the last turns as far as I can see. Now we're waiting for them and...

If they aren't playing anymore they should go AI, that would still be better than staling IMO

[Zeldor]

moderatio is always slow with submitting turns, be it blitz or pbem. But that is just way too slow, he had like 10 days http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Seerver went down like 2-4 hours before hosting and now it was new 48 hours for submitting.

[moderation]

Who? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Anyway, I was out of town over the weekend and didn't know the server was back up. My turn is posted now.

[quantum_mechani]

Set Bandar AI and lets get this show on the road!

[CUnknown]

Bandar set to AI and new turn hosted!

[Zeldor]

BTW that is the last turn I am doing before my trip to Shanghai. I think moderatio will be able to play for me now as people did some tests proving you can submit 2 turns from same cd-key. If not you can surely find someone. I will be back on 5th August.

[CUnknown]

Crap ... we really need a sub for Pythium.

[Baalz]

SORRY, THE BURNINATOR HAS BEEN LAX IN FINISHING OFF PYTHIUM. GRAND MARSHAL ZELDOR HAS BEEN A WILY OPPONENT, EXPANDING AS FAST TO THE WEST AS I CAN CONQUER IN HIS EAST. PERHAPS THE SUB WILL BE KIND ENOUGH TO SEND ANOTHER SHIPMENT OF HARBINGERS THOUGH, WE'VE QUITE RUN DRY.

[Rathar]

No no no need for a sub for pythium, cough, no really.. how about we just set them to AI like the last 3 or so evils who had to go.. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Rathar]

Pythium got a sub? Who?

[CUnknown]

I actually took his turn this time. I hope no one minds.

[Rathar]

I mind. Good being able to communicate is one thing, taking each others turns and fully knowing their tactical setup is another.

Plus, when evils miss turns, they get set to AI. Good? Just take their turn? I don't think so.

[IndyPendant]

I have to agree. We lost a number of Evils who just switched themselves to AI, and the game keeps going. It seems a bit unfair for an absent Good player not to be set to AI.

I will bow to whatever decision is made, but I thought I would express my opinion in Rathar's support, since I am (somewhat) neutral. ; )

[CUnknown]

It's not exactly the same thing ... the Goods are right next to each other. If one of us goes AI, the AI might attack one of the rest of us. And, also, I have given tons of items to Pythium. I am heavily invested in him. It's not fair that he goes away.

And besides.. it's not like Good is in danger of winning, anyway. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Things are basically hopeless for us at this point (well not completely, but mostly. We are not under any delusions that we have much of a chance anymore). One of the neutrals is going to win this game.

*clears throat* Hrm...hmm.. And.. uh.. Arco has just asked me to take over for him as well .... *cough*

I will admit that playing 3 factions does seem like something of a breach ...

But, 2 factions (until we can find a replacement) doesn't seem so bad to me. Especially since if one of the Goods goes AI, the rest of us might as well, too. So, I don't know what to do at this point. I'd like to keep playing, but it's just to keep playing and maybe get some revenge on Ermor and Bandar that is keeping me going at this point. Our hopes of winning are slowly being sucked into the massive monolith of Abyssian power.

Seriously, I'm not sure if all of us Goods together can stop Abysia at this point. But, even so, he's doomed when the Neutral powerhouses descend on him (most likely).

So, yeah. I don't know what to do. I do know that if Pythium goes AI, it's game over for team Good.

[Rathar]

I would rather wait for a player than have another in command of two nations both of whom are attacking me directly. The ability to coordinate is ridiculous in this case. I also point out that Lanka was right next to me and set to AI with a good condition nation.

Two (or more) nations controlled by one player is unacceptable to me. When one gives things to a nation you run the risk of them disappearing. Self interest should not make an appearance here.

If you stepped away from it I think you would have to admit it's not kosher.

[quantum_mechani]

I think CU is in a very tough spot. AIing Pythium would be conceding the game for Good I believe. I did think the AIing of the monkey nations was a tad trigger happy, but it's not exactly easy to find subs.

I don't have a issue with CU playing all of good if he really has too, but I hope it does not come to that.

[DonCorazon]

I see rathar's point, it wouldn't be fun to have to fight against one person playing 2 (or 3) nations - that is a whole different level of coordination. At the same time, Good will be destroyed (even faster) if Pyth goes AI.

Given Good is likely on the road to ruin anyway, and as a two-bit player on the side of Good, I don't care what we do. It goes to the issue of how important it is in a team game to make sure you have players who will stick it out or find subs if they have to leave.

So if rathar objects and we cannot find a sub, I'd lean towards turning Pyth AI after returning all magic items - I suspect it just accelerates the inevitable.

[Rathar]

I think it's interesting that you goodies think you are on the ropes as I only see two evils left really but perspective can be funny! And I agree with CU in a tough spot but..

[CUnknown]

The thing is DonCorazon ... what the heck are we going to do with all those items... I don't have any thugs besides sleepers, myself. Even if they were returned, it wouldn't make much of a difference.

As far as Lanka goes, he shouldn't have been turned AI, I agree. We tried to find him a sub, but it didn't work. I don't see that we had much of a choice to turn him AI.

Rathar - the evils are on the ropes, too.. except for Abysia, who pretty much counts as his own team at this point. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

We can turn Pythium AI if you guys want, but Arco will follow. I'm not sure what DC would do at that point. I will probably stick around, what the heck. But, I'd just be staying to kill you, Rathar, haha. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

At this point, can we just let Arco and Pythium stale and hope to find subs? I will force host when they are they only 2 left.

[DonCorazon]

CU, I agree the items won't do much good, though it would be nice to get some for my raiders who haven't gotten anything this whole game except one lousy flame brand. Heh.
But we're dead anyway if Pyth goes from friend to foe.

As for my plans, I have been staying on out of a sense of duty - but TNN has gotten so far behind since we had to abandon all our research to help the Goods survive.

Why is Arco leaving, btw? I had to endure thousands of his emails early on in this game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Now I have to pay off his loans while he moves on? TNN should just rebel and attack Good anyway out of spite. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[CUnknown]

He's leaving for two reasons:

1) Dominions is affecting his performance in school (heh).
2) His nation has been beaten down and he's losing morale.

Yeah ... about the loan ... if we lost Arco and Pythium, Good would default on its loan, I'm sorry to our benefactor.

[DonCorazon]

Nice, reason #2 is a classic:
TNN has been sacrificing its own development/fun by giving up its gems, its research, and its gold to help TC, Pyth and Arcos and they have all quit or (in TC's case) been killed. Now they bail and leave backward TNN to play out the remainder of its miserable existence? Its like they ate the desert up front and left TNN to eat the spinach.

Unbelievable, this is about the 10th time during this game I have told myself never to sign up for a "team" game.

[Zeldor]

Heh, I check my mail at hotel and see that too...

I was convince to temp[for 1 turn!] sub for Pythium. My first advice for goods was to simply surrender as they had absolutely no chance. Team play completely sucked. Initial plan and race changed sucked. Game administration sucked. Game creation sucked. There were may noobies and unresponsible players allowed, mostly on evil side, which turned evil. Map wasn't goo either, also letting one water nations looks like a huge mistakes.

But well, CU didn't want to surrender [or maybe there was no way to choose who to surrender to with rules of winning for neutrals].

I took the nation over and it was known pretty much from the beginning I need a sub from 25th. And goods knew they have to find someone. Well, they didn't, but moderatio agreed to play for me. And if you ask me it's compeltely fine. Goods are a team, so what's the difference? We were looking at each others turns all the time and coordinating attacks.

P.S. Congrats Don on Alexandria.

P.P.S. That internet in hotel is crap... I finished that stupid post and my mail didn't load still...

[Baalz]

For what it's worth I have no problem at all with team good consolidating players in any way which is expedient. If DC is feeling like he's been playing support with no fun I say let him pick up Arco and/or Pythium in addition to TNN. On the one hand Rathar has a reasonable objection, on the other team good is in a tough situation and has a very reasonable reason for consolidating players - it's not like we've got people lined up to subs, particularly nations in a demoralizing position (I've got Arco in quite a stranglehold). At the end of the day my opinion is that though Rathar has a point, the health of the game trumps it. I don't think team good will gain *that* much of an advantage, and I tend to agree that team good is in a pretty bad position and any advantage they did gain would benefit the health of the game.

[DonCorazon]

I have no interest / capacity in taking over Arcos or Pyth. My point was simply to vent the frustration of playing support for players who bail when things get bad. I'll stick it out until the Golden Hall at Mag Mor is in flames but I am not going to pick up the wreckage of other players - it's bad enough my sacrifices have been in vain, not going to exacerbate it with giving up more of my free time. I will stick it out as TNN, which is what I committed to when I signed up for this game.

[DonCorazon]

Server seems to be down btw

[CUnknown]

It's back up now, I'm sorry DC.

[Foodstamp]

Zeldor said:
Heh, I check my mail at hotel and see that too...

I was convince to temp[for 1 turn!] sub for Pythium. My first advice for goods was to simply surrender as they had absolutely no chance. Team play completely sucked. Initial plan and race changed sucked. Game administration sucked. Game creation sucked. There were may noobies and unresponsible players allowed, mostly on evil side, which turned evil. Map wasn't goo either, also letting one water nations looks like a huge mistakes.

But well, CU didn't want to surrender [or maybe there was no way to choose who to surrender to with rules of winning for neutrals].

I took the nation over and it was known pretty much from the beginning I need a sub from 25th. And goods knew they have to find someone. Well, they didn't, but moderatio agreed to play for me. And if you ask me it's compeltely fine. Goods are a team, so what's the difference? We were looking at each others turns all the time and coordinating attacks.

P.S. Congrats Don on Alexandria.

P.P.S. That internet in hotel is crap... I finished that stupid post and my mail didn't load still...



Assigning secret enemies was pretty top notch though! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[CUnknown]

Sorry that this game was horribly managed! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/Injured.gif

You're right Zeldor that our teamplay was not the best. And our race/pretender selection was pretty awful. But, Evil had many newbies and things sort of balanced out.

I hope people had fun, anyway.

Have we made a decision on what to do with Good? I have already taken Pythium's turn this turn. But for next turn, what am I doing? Making him and Arco go AI, or just letting them stale, or what? Perhaps Foodstamp should make this decision.

[Hoplosternum]

I think the game was a nice idea. I like team games and I like themed games.

But in hindsight there were problems with the set up. If you are going to have a team game you really need to have teams http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif rather than just one.

Plus the neutrals in fact were playing just a normal game but with boosted starts and where only they could use diplomacy. A big advantage. While good and evil had large restrictions. Many of which - like the secret enemy - made the job of the neutrals much easier.

Having said that the neutrals have played the game very well and exploited their advantages to the maximum.

I know we as goods did not play it very well. Especially me (I was TC!) but I am pretty much a newbie. Most of our opponents were rushers and we had neither picked rush nations in most cases nor the awake SCs that may have given us the quick starts we needed. Nor did we power pick our nations well. Pythium and Arco were good picks but the rest of us perhaps could have chosen better.

Of course an unbreakable alliance of 5 looks very strong. But in fact the restrictions on good and the set up which pitched all the 9 evil players to attack us none stop right from the start (well those that could reach us!) neutralised this.

Anyway while this game was not much fun for me I think the idea was good but definitely needs some tweaking. I don't think this format works. But themed team games certainly could.

[Rathar]

I totally see the point about an AI "good" being bad as it would likely attack you. Hmm what to do?

I still think having one player do multiple nations is bad juju.

[Kheldron]

Even if I understand Rathar's point, I don't think it'll change much at this point of the game if any good plays several nations.
They don't seem that overpowered even if consolidated and if it can help the health of the game, as Baalz stated, well...go for it !

I for one had great fun in this game but I must admit the settings were tweaked in neutral favor. I never really had any other threat than counterattacks from those I first striked. Therefore our initial advantages weren't deserved IMHO.
If we ever launch a second version of this game, that would be what I would remove. For the other parts, I think the main problem went from lack of a strategy from the goods part, or lack of initial power (rush nations and/or awake pretenders). That alone was their demise imo.

I move on vacations on wednesday until the 16th of august. I'll try to connect as often as possible (usb key and internet in hotels) but I may not be able to do my turns more than once every 2-3 days.
Since that's our current pace, I hope it won't change anything but...

[CUnknown]

Should we pause the game until we decide what to do about Good?

And, how do we decide what to do? Vote? Let Foodstamp make the call? Any opinions?

[Zeldor]

I vote for turning all good AI [evil ones can do it as well with that stats, even Baalz would probably agree he has less than 1% chance], with all that attitude that is in that team.

[Just using some rainy evening to check forum in some cheap lame hotel with slow net]

[Foodstamp]

If you want, I can check the situation for good and give a summary / recommendation. Just let me know http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

[CUnknown]

I'd definitely like to hear your opinion, Foodstamp, seeing as you are the only unbiased person. Everyone else has interest in the outcome.

Zeldor - I'm not turning myself AI, heh. We're asking about Pythium and Arco.

I think everyone can agree that:

1) Good has no chance if Pythium and Arco are turned AI.
2) Good and Evil both have only a very minor chance of winning, because the Neutrals are so powerful.
3) Evil's chance of winning does increase nicely if Pythium and Arco are turned AI, although it is still low.
4) One player shouldn't be playing 2 or 3 factions.
5) Delaying the game until two subs are found would be a long delay, and long avoidable delays are not generally good things.

May I suggest a compromise?

Let's delay the game until a sub is found for Pythium. If Arco refuses to return to the game, then we set him AI. However, all of his gold/gems/magic items are sent to Good first.

If a sub can't be found for Pythium within a week, let me take another of Pythium's turns, and then we wait another week for a sub?

[Zeldor]

CUnknown:

Well, only neutrals count now, so turning all good and evil AI would just speed up inevitable. Or we can finish the game as is and start new edition, with better map, rules and player selection.

[Baalz]

THE BURNINATOR DOES NOT CONCEDE THAT THE GAME IS LOST TO HIM. IF GOOD IS FINISHED, ABYSSIA IS EFFECTIVELY THE WEAKEST OF 4 NEUTRALS - BUT AT LEAST IN THE SAME BALLPARK. UNLESS I MISUNDERSTOOD THE RULES THE NEUTRALS MUST FIGHT AMONGST THEMSELVES TO WIN. ABYSSIA IS CERTAINLY THE LEAST ATTRACTIVE TARGET FOR ANY NEUTRALS TO ATTACK AS NOT ONLY ARE THE OTHER NEUTRALS A BIGGER THREAT, BUT ALSO MY DEFEAT MEANS GOOD WINS BY MERELY HOLDING THEIR OWN 5 CAPITALS.

[IndyPendant]

Well, Baalz has swayed me with his argument. I do agree with Rathar that one player controlling multiple nations does give Good 'unfair' advantages it would normally not have...but if it's a choice between that and Good collapsing completely, I do prefer the game to continue. We really need to find a replacement asap though.

As to delaying the game: Please. No delays. No more. I can't take it. I'll agree to anything if it avoids any more damned delays! (Only slightly joking. ; ) If we absolutely must, we can delay. But if there's any other option (such as CUnkown continuing to play the nation until a replacement is found), then it has my vote.

[Rathar]

Sounds reasonable.

[CUnknown]

Okay, so we are going to continue with the game, and look for a replacement for Pythium? But, Arco will be set AI and all his stuff sent to Good. If no replacement is found, I will take Pythium's turn again. Everyone agrees?

[LoloMo]

Hi, I've agreed to sub for LA Arco. Give me a couple of days to look things over and read over some of the posts. This seems like an interesting game.

[Rathar]

I am still adamantly against one human playing two nations. No matter what.

Don't get me wrong. I understand the situation and I "think" I am accounting for my bias in it but it's still uncool. Not quite cricket, what what!

[Zeldor]

Well, if Arco is not going AI I can probably take them back on 5th. Assuming there is not bad attitude in good team and no one screwed what I repaired there http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Baalz]

THE BURNINATOR WILL BE SCREWING EACH AND EVERY PART OF ARCOSCEPHALE, ASHES IS ALL THAT WILL REMAIN SHORTLY SO NO NEED TO WORRY.

[CUnknown]

Rathar, so the game will be on hold until a sub for Pythium is found. Or, I guess Zeldor can take them back over on the 5th.

[CUnknown]

The game is back on, because we found a sub for Pythium (archaelept)!

[Kheldron]

I've given some thoughts about a possible sequel to this game.

First of all, I want to assure everyone that I'll be adamant to play this game to the end. There's no playing and investing 40+ turns over several months in a game to just let it slip into nothingness.


- I really like the secret enemy idea even though it didn't played out as I thought it would. Imho, two things went wrong : a lot of evil players didn't have connection with their secret enemy and many secret enemies died by other hands before any connection could be made.

There are two ways to correct it : either we force starting sites to make secret enemies neighbors or we give several secret enemies to each evil player on medium-large maps.
The second choice has my vote because it would be a heck of a task for any moderator to place each starting players and it wouldnt be that secret if you knew from the start that your predator was necessarily starting close to you. It would narrow your choices and lessen the backstab possibilities.
Imho, a good rule of thumb would be one secret enemy every 5 evil players. 1 for 1-5 evils, 2 for 6-10, 3 for 11-15...
That would assure you to still have a secret prey and/or predator by mid-game and make for a lot of gleeful backstabs whwen connections can be made.

- The ban on any kind of communication for evils was at best frustrating to them and at worse cause for weakness for the depth of this game imho. It hadn't got any rpg reason and it didn't bring any more pleasure for anyone I fear. imo evils should be able to communicate with anyone.
If you want to believe or trade with an evil player, do it at your own risks ! At best you're dealing with someone so untrustworthy you may never see the other end of your trade fulfilled, at worse you're dealing with someone who may very well have got your head on a pike as a victory condition !
The only exception would be for good players to trade items or gems with evil players for rpg reasons. Evil players should be allowed to communicate (insult, misinform etc...) with any players, up to the listener to believe or not, but I don't think a good player would lower himself to trade and help an evil in any way.

- Neutrals were supposed to be alone in this world but for most purposes they never acted as enemies and should not as long as good or evil represent any threat. When and if evil and goods are defeated or on their way to, neutrals shall fight as in vanilla...but I don't see the point : this doesn't fit in this game flavor imo. The settings make them unofficial allies? Well, just make it official and they shall be recon with. You could even have goods or evil striking at them before the end...

- otoh, I don't see a point in giving neutrals anymore advantages as evils and goods already have to cope with each others.

Good advantages :
- allied till the end. Win or lose together.

Good restrictions :
- can't use death and blood magic or gems.
- victory conditions : all evils defeated and possession of all good starting locations.
- can communicate with evils but can't trade items or gems or make any NAP with them. can do anything they want with neutrals.

Evil advantages :
- biggest faction on the map
- can do anything they want as long as it further their (evil) goals

Evil restrictions :
- must eliminate all good and neutral nations.
- They also have 1 secret enemy for every 1-5 evil players on the map. Only those who meet the first and second victory condition shall enter the hall of fame
- Goods wont trade with them and the above makes them at best third choice partners for any trade or alliance be it neutrals or other evils.

Neutral advantages :
- no restrictions on behavior whatsoever.
- goods dont have them as primary targets as they dont need to eliminate them to win.

Neutral restrictions :
- They must eliiminate good and evil factions to win. Win or lose as a team.
- They are the smallest faction

All this sums up to a sequel where we would have 3 real teams, evil, good and neutral. For obvious reasons, they should number according to their advantages and restrictions. 3 neutral vs. 5 goods vs. 8 evils is a good ratio imho. or 2 vs 3 vs 5 for a small map. 5 vs 8 vs 13 for a big one.


What do you think ?

[Baalz]

Hmmm, I'm trying to decide how much of this game played out because of the setup of the game, and how much just because of the particular players involved. My suggestions:

Evil players cannot trade with any other than neutral players. Evil to evil trades can be brokered through neutrals via whatever mechanism is agreed upon. Neutrals are not required to turn a profit, they can do this for free if they can be convinced it's in their interest, intimidated, etc.

No restriction upon evil communication, evil can plan anything with anybody, with the exception that no peace agreement may be made with good. Thematically, don't be surprised if evil doesn't honor their word, players are encouraged to play evil races as untrustworthy backstabbers when it's in the nation's interest. Hint: get your secret enemies to commit to a bloody war before you hamstring them! Note: though evil cannot make peace with good, they can coordinate with good temporarily to screw another evil player.

Each evil has 3 secret enemies (out of 9 evils). That means that although evil is free to coordinate in any way with all other evils, they know 1/3 other evils are out to get them!

Evil victory: All good capitals in evil hands, you loose if your secret enemy holds their capital when this happens.

Neutrals get no overt benefit other than not being in a ceaseless war the entire game...that is quite enough! Neutrals win when there are 2 or less of each faction remaining (including neutrals!) in control of their capitals and neutrals are in control of 2 good capitals and 3 evil. Neutrals can and should work together with everyone...to a point. If good or evil is about to win, that's the bestt time for neutral to swoop in and try to snatch victory from the presumptive winners. Note: it's in good's interest to make sure a neutral player is not intimidated by evil into giving them an advantage! Support neutral in this case!

Good - full coordination with each other and an any trade they can negotiate with neutral. No trading with evil, nor peace agreements. Victory - good holds all good capitals and evil holds none of theirs. Good is intended to play as thematically good and should honor agreements made even if they are with untrustworthy evil - be cautious making a deal with the devil.

[archaeolept]

heh the timer got turned off... which is fair, because lolomo wasn't given a hosting deadline when he signed up to take over arco...

[Rathar]

Oh futz.. I missed our finding a sub and will get a chance to pop out a turn this evening! Sorry for making you wait!

[Kheldron]

Well I quite agree with you on most of your suggestions. The only thing that still bothers me is the neverendinig peace for neutrals. For having played it, I find it an unfair advantage as they almost play in an environment like in solo games.

As I see it, evils should start the game with a rather simple objective : they must destroy or weaken goods and neutrals alike enough so that when the backstabing starts in mid-game they only have evils to deal with anymore.
Goods and neutrals are the two weakest factions and must seek survival in early game in order to benefit from synergies later on.
Neutrals have that advanttage to benefit from both synergy and death-blood magic which own in late game.

My issue with too much neutrality for neutrals ( http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif ) is they almost have a garanteed ticket for late game and therefore garanty for ownage.

The trick is to find something of a challenge for them to reach late game.

Apart from that...I'm in for the next game!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[CUnknown]

I was sort of surprised that none of the evils attacked the neutrals until late-ish. That wasn't the way I envisioned it, for sure.

Btw, the timer is back on, and a new turn is up.

[Zeldor]

I surely want to be in new edition of that game. I can also give some tips, the biggest one would be to create a special map with thematic starting locations [and nice choosing of secret enemies then].

[Baalz]

Yeah, I was thinking that with my suggested changes:

1) Evil would work together better early, but be hesitant to be too tightly coupled and always be jockeying to come out *more* ahead than their allies in any engagement.

2) Evil must kill good, but they also have an incentive to attack neutral because they're defacto immediately at war with neutral as soon as good starts to crumble.

3) Neutral is likely to be bullied by evil due to evil's better coordination (it's a lot more tempting to gang up on a surrounded and unsupported neutral if you can get another evil or two to attack from another direction). This will be counteracted by neutral's ability to bribe - it's better to have a friendly neutral so that items/gems can be exchanged among evil. This is of course balanced by good trying to maneuver so that no neutrals are surrounded and unsupported for exactly this reason.

4) If neutral's 'peace' advantage does manage to get them a ticket to late game, they still need to eliminate one of themselves - so neutrals can't trust each other too far.

[LoloMo]

I received a message that says "CD key violation - your CD key has been used on multiple installations. Your orders have not been executed."

Is this a bug? My last turn's orders went through without problems; this is only my second turn after subbing for this game. This is the first time I've encountered this in any of the games I have played. I have an original copy of the game.

[archaeolept]

eh, that's if it thinks you are playing two nations... did you look at another good player (which is fine) but accidentally save a turn? that's the only thing i can think of.

edit: or, conversely, if someone else accidentally submitted a turn for you, as well as their own nation.

how this mechanic works exactly is not fully understood http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[LoloMo]

Nope, I have no access to the other good nations. I guess another nation should have this error message too?

[archaeolept]

one would think... but like i said, the mechanics are not fully understood.

i've gotten it by changing a nation to AI in the game, which I also was a player in. Other people swear that that doesn't happen...

probably won't happen again, but who knows?

[Zeldor]

AFAIK you can play for 2 nations from same cd-key as long as you use the same computer and OS. Problems occur with different computers [and maybe even starting a turn on one PC and finishing on another]. There was a thread about it. Have you tried saving turn again and submitting it again?

[archaeolept]

no, this would be a message upon commencement of the turn; basically saying you didn't get to take one.

and when i got the message, both my nation and the nation i was setting ai were played from the same pc...

like i said, the mechanism is not well understood http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Kheldron]

I also had that problem about 15 turns ago because I had started a turn on one computer and finished on another.

Now I just got a stale turn for my plane being toooo late http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rant.gif

Is timer back on 24h hosting?
Because I wont be able to keep pace as I'm still on holidays...
One stale turn is bad (and this particular one more than anyone can know) at this stage but two or more... erf

[archaeolept]

i think it's on 48 hr turns. i'm fine w/ 72 hr turns as far as that goes.

[CUnknown]

It has been on 48-h hosting.. if you need some extra time, that is fine with me. We can go on 72-h.

[archaeolept]

hosting was reset to 72 hrs... now server seems down? hopefully it doesn't start another 72 hr countdown http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[CUnknown]

Server is not down, timer is at 49 hours to go. But, honestly, it shouldn't go that long, because our 48-h timer was at 10 hours to go when I switched to 72 hours. Maybe another 24 hours should be the longest it should go.

[CUnknown]

I had to restart my computer, so the timer was reset. I believe there was 24-h on the timer left. So, I have turned off the timer, and I will force host late tomorrow (Saturday around midnight eastern time).

Quickhost is still on.

Just keeping you all up to date on the hosting schedule.

[Kheldron]

I'm back from vacations and shall do my turns as fast as before from now on
Thanks all for your patience :)

[archaeolept]

the game is off the timer? i've kinda been depending on good ol reliable ermor to set the pace, so I know about when turns are actually due :)

[DonCorazon]

Server down?

Anything happening around the world?
This game has gotten so quiet I almost forget Eriu is still slogging along in the good fight.

[CUnknown]

Yes, the server was down for a hour or two there, but it's back up now. Ermor was set AI because of persistent stales.

What is going on in this game is that the Neutrals are planning their strike on us, heh. :shock: I am waiting for the hammer to fall sometime soon. We do seem to be doing well at finishing off Ermor and beating back Abysia.

[archaeolept]

well baalz hasn't been sending many horrors lately... that's a bad sign.

it means he has more important uses for his slaves :o

[DonCorazon]

Nah, he blasted Eriu. It was one of those turns you open up and say "Oh sh#t" because there are 20+ battle messages - you know some serious operation went down. Anyway, it seems to have been repelled in most provinces so Eriu carries on....

Ermor AI? We just wiped out 475 of their undead including their immortal wraith lord hero with only 5 TNN casualties. It was a minor miracle. I am not sure how Eriu keeps managing to hang on but sure the hammer will fall one of these days.

[Baalz]

The Burninator Is Definitely On The Back Foot. It's A Tough Boat To Be Fighting A Steady Stream Of Pythium's Angels Outfit By Ulm While Tnn Raids My Blood Hunters Rampantly And Arco Stomps Around With 30+ Mage Stacks With No Interest In Research. Abyssia Thrashes Like A Titan Leaving Piles Of Smoldering Bodies In Our Wake, But Pythium Cuts A Huge And Bloody Swath Up Our Belly And There Seems No End To The *i*m*e*n*s*e*l*y Annoying Angels Of Fury. Now Might Be A Very Good Time For Some Of The Neutrals To Get In The Game.

Edit: *AAAAARG*, the new forums changed the burninator's speech! It now impossible to speak in a fittingly loud voice! :( :( :( :( :( :( :(

[DonCorazon]

The Burninator is way less intimidating in Title Case instead of ALL CAPS. It is a sign of the times. :)

[archaeolept]

I do like the morbidly I mean heroically obese Angel of Fury.

You should see him at the buffet

as to the burninations - yup, they're pretty good at taking out PD ;p

[CUnknown]

Don't worry Baalz, I'm sure the Neutrals are planning something. You have done an excellent job making life miserable for us. But with the demise of Ermor, you are fighting 4 people basically by yourself. A tough road for even the Burninator.

[IndyPendant]

I could not access the game server last night or this morning before work, to submit my turn. And I won't be home to try again for at least another ten hours. I can't remember when the game was scheduled to host, but if it's before then could I get an extension until I get home? The turn is done, I just could not submit it.

[DonCorazon]

I couldn't submit either, even after the posting that said the server was back up.

[archaeolept]

yeah, server is down.

[CUnknown]

The server has been up.. It was just down briefly for maybe 30 min or so. Are people still having problems connecting? If so, I have no idea what could be the cause. My IP address is right, port is right (2001), port forwarding is right, I have internet... I'm not sure what the problem is..

I have turned off the timer just in case.

[archaeolept]

nope - doesn't see it there. no response.

reboot?

[CUnknown]

Okay, computer restarted. I hope that whatever the problem was, it has been fixed now. Sorry about this, guys!

[Baalz]

I'm, at least, connecting fine now.

[DonCorazon]

Got mine in as well. Seems to be back up.

[archaeolept]

yup got in.

[CUnknown]

Woah, suddenly I got a nagot gik fel, "Dominions server is too old." Is there a new patch out?

Who loaded up their turn just now, using the new patch? You will need to re-load your turn using the old patch. We can patch after the turn hosts.

Edit: And there's at least one big change in it! "Battle enchantments expired when caster retreats from battleground." Mists of Deception is now allowed!

[IndyPendant]

Heh. I may have broken Xietor's server. I have upgraded to 3.20 for my Llamaserver games. The game let me upload my turn, then right after that it crashed with the error message "The connection to the server has been broken." and now I can't connect.

We'll probably all need to update our Dom3 to v3.20, then end turn again (even if you've completed your orders, just go back to the turn and end it again), then upload it to Xietor's server.

[CUnknown]

Okay, I upgraded the server to 3.20, and everything seems to work fine. Yeah, it's probably best for everyone to upgrade and then connect, check your turn, and then hit 'end turn'.

[IndyPendant]

Er. Careless posting after reading about the Kingmaker game. "Xietor", heh. Sorry, CUnknown. I'd edit it out if I could. ; )

[archaeolept]

can't connect. has there been a new turn?

[CUnknown]

Yes, there is a new turn. However, I have a new IP address:

97 dot 81 dot 110 dot 40

So, if you use that IP address, everyone should be able to connect again. Let me know if you can't!

[quantum_mechani]

Did it host while it was down? I think I staled, quite a shame since I had almost finished my turn and was going to upload it.

[CUnknown]

It definitely hosted, so I assume that means it was up at least until that time, but I'm not sure. I apoligize if it hosted and my internet was down. I should have turned off the timer before leaving for the weekend.

Edit: I'm never hosting again, lol. :)

[quantum_mechani]

Ooops, sorry, got confused, turns out I didn't actually stale a turn. :)

[CUnknown]

Turn up!

[IndyPendant]

R'lyeh is now buying any number of Astral and Nature Gems, at 20 gold each! We are also buying Blood Slaves at 10 gold each! (Prices are negotiable, depending on quantities involved.)

PM me if interested.

[CUnknown]

All slave traders will be hunted down by the virtuous nations and prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

[Kheldron]

Don't worry O virtuous one I don't trade blood slaves.
I merely sacrifice them :D

[archaeolept]

i think the victory conditions have helped create a rather stagnant political front. Good has managed to push back aby, but of course can not really go much forward, w/out being crushed for their impertinance. Meanwhile, the neutrals just sit and watch.

I would propose making this a 5 way contest. good vs evil (ie. baalz) vs each of the neutrals. this wouldn't be at all fair if Good were the pre-eminent power, but it clearly is nowhere near so being. This should also give Baalz some hope, as it is no longer just good vs. evil, but now a more fluid diplomatic situation.

I should say that technically this is a harder victory condition for Good, as Good would have to defeat everyone, not just Evil. However, in reality, I think it would take us out of a potential impasse.

[Baalz]

I'm currently still evacuated due to Ike and am unable to connect to network games on my borrowed internet (firewall issues probably). I've already been here longer than I expected when I left and I'm not sure exactly when I'm going to be home, or what the electricity/internet situation will be there (they're saying some people will be without power for 3-4 weeks!). Hopefully I'll be home and able to connect tomorrow, but I think I might have staled a turn already. Sorry!

[archaeolept]

CU added another 72 hrs, so there's 53 hrs left - i'm sure he can extend it again if needed.

Enjoy the rain ;p

personally, I like the very slow pace of this game :)

[Baalz]

Well, honestly I'm in a bit of an absurd position. I'm *completely* outmatched by the angelic hosts dominating my airspace, and dwarfed by the combined income of team good - at this point I'm essentially defeated but unable to be put out of my misery or quit. I have to say I've been rather dreading taking this turn for a bit now. My last hope was to bring those angels down with life for a lifes, but since I'm unable to cast that with less than three blood mages (who are cap only), and blood vengeance + luck + high hps means I need to cast it several times there's no way I can hope to stop the dozen plus kitted angels who's numbers of course grow every turn. :(

If y'all were interested in continuing this game I'd say Archaeolept's suggest is good, just please for the love of god somebody put me out of my misery....

[archaeolept]

you took down two of them in exchange for 3 demonbred. That was a good hit.

[Baalz]

Well, actually I took down 2 of them in exchange for 7 demonbred (plus a bunch of troops and summons) if you count both fights, and those demonbred are cap only while it's likely you're summoning more than one angel per turn at this point. I considered trying to get some blood SCs to fight back, but 1) somebody's already nabbed most/all the unique blood summons and 2) your angels are flambeaux wielding demon slayers. :/ There's no way that I can possibly regain the momentum at this point - even if the nuetrals decided to obliterate good and ignore me that just leaves me in further limbo indefinitely with no hope of winning.

[archaeolept]

oh sorry - i hadn't seen all the battles yet.

I was happy w/ how that little battle communion worked - not that i expect it to live a long life :)

[CUnknown]

At this point, I honestly wouldn't mind ending this game, or turning it into a "Neutrals-only" slugfest or something. We are going to have to work through some of the details if we're going to play a game of this type again. Is there anyone who feels strongly that they want to continue playing?

[Kheldron]

Well I certainly hope to have a grand slaughtering before the end.
About the other conditions we already discussed it at length with Baalz I recall and what we had suggested was fine for a better balanced game of this type IMO. that was around page 37 of this thread.

[archaeolept]

well, Baalz and I are having some epic fights... but the game itself is dead as the giant neutrals just sit and hoard. :)

[Kheldron]

That was my point when I talked about too much neutrality. The victory conditions as they were set are the prime reason for this IMO as neutrals had a strong interest in leaving the other two factions slaughter each other.

[IndyPendant]

Well, I know that that was kind of what I was doing. Waiting to see who slaughters who of the good and evil. I would be happy to let this game go, in all honesty, but I have two personal reasons for wanting to do so: I realized literally a few weeks after I started this game that I hate Dom3 endgame, and I was staring down an extended one here. And I also have finally gotten my fill of Dom3, and need a break; after over a year and a half of playing, that is a personal record for me, out of an entire lifetime, with *any* game! I realize however that those opinions aren't shared by the majority of players, and I don't want to derail the thread. Just explaining why I'm voting 'end it'.

As to a different setup, I think the initial rules were set up quite well. There were far too many players though. If Good can make it to the end-game as a coalition, then they pretty much have it won. Even in this game, Good advertised making some critically bad decisions both in Pretender design and during the early game; if that wasn't just don't-kill-us propaganda (which I half-suspect it was), then even with all those critical errors, they are still a major power even now! Without those critical errors, we would probably now be checking if anyone wants to continue in the face of Team Good's clear victory. ; )

I think a game like this is best set up with 10 players: 5 Evil, 2 Neutral, 3 Good. Spread the Team Good out a bit, but make sure there is no more than one other player between any two of them on the map. That way they can come to each other's aid if necessary, their early expansion isn't crippled by slamming up against other Good, and they can team up on other nations if they like. And with only three in Team Good, it no longer becomes so *absolutely critical* that Evil destroy them early game, so Evil need not go after them exclusively, and Neutral may not be able to turtle up in such safety.

I did enjoy this game though, don't get me wrong. Learned a lot, had some fun, and there are a few things I would like to mention I was doing if we do officially decide to end it.

--IndyPendant.

[DonCorazon]

I'd vote to end this game in favor of anyone who wants to claim victory.

[archaeolept]

well, I've submitted my turn. If people are tired of the game and want to end it, that's fine with me. I was only supposed to be a short-term sub ;p

[Kheldron]

Well I'd be really sad to end this game like this after so many turns.

[archaeolept]

well, you neutrals should get a war going then :)

[CUnknown]

QM, what is your opinion? The 3 Neutral votes are the ones who really matter. I say we let them decide it. I'll keep playing if people want, but I'm happy to end it as well.

Pangea says:"Keep going."
Ryleh says: "Let's end it."
Shinuyama, what is your opinion? You have the deciding vote among the Neutrals it looks like.

If we end it, the Neutrals would win as a group, I think. It's hard to pick which Neutral has a bigger edge at this point, without looking at your positions.

[DonCorazon]

How close are we goods to killing Abysia (TNN's scouts have all been wiped out over the years)? That's all we have left right? Why don't we just kamikazee him and see if we can rid the world of evil once and for all. If the neutrals want to stand by and turtle that's fine with me. :) I just want to see some action in this game, or retire.

[archaeolept]

we're a long long way from conquering abysia. if the neutrals weren't to interfere, over 20 turns i would think... he's still more powerful than I am, for sure, and it would take a long time to reduce his castles.

Victory conditions are not met, so there are no winners. I think the game does show that there are issues with the victory conditions as exist.

[quantum_mechani]

QM, what is your opinion? The 3 Neutral votes are the ones who really matter. I say we let them decide it. I'll keep playing if people want, but I'm happy to end it as well.

Pangea says:"Keep going."
Ryleh says: "Let's end it."
Shinuyama, what is your opinion? You have the deciding vote among the Neutrals it looks like.

If we end it, the Neutrals would win as a group, I think. It's hard to pick which Neutral has a bigger edge at this point, without looking at your positions.I suppose my vote is to continue, but I'll qualify that. I think you have a good idea of letting somebody impartial look at the positions and see if it looks like there is any overwhelming edge.

[Zeldor]

Huh, good to see that Pythium survived :)

Too bad my plan for good team really didn't get approved.

CUnknown:

Nah, I think there were many many flaws in rules and game design. Idea was good, but some mistakes were made, including:
- water nation
- newbies allowed
- bad map
- bad win conditions
- no encouragement to attack neutrals or for neutrals to get fighting [until the end, where they have to stop good or evil from winning]
- hosting was not great, next one should be on llamaserver

[quantum_mechani]

So, opinions people? Anyone have objections to having a neutral observer look at the turns?

[Kheldron]

No problem but any observer is in for a heck of a search through all provinces, leaders, equipment and all...ouch!
Who do you hate so much? :D

[archaeolept]

in terms of power it goes like this: shinu, r'lyeh, pan, aby, ulm or pyth, eriu, arcos.

Shinu has done the best of the neutrals, Aby of Evil, Ulm of Good (as pyth's power is in large part due to Ulm).

They're experimental victory conditions in an experimental game. Don't obsess. Either play it out, or say it was fun and end it - and critique the format in order to better prepare any eventual successor.

If R'lyeh and Pan join up, they might have a chance against Shinuyama; esp. if they can get some outside support.

[DonCorazon]

I vote for Shin, or I'll keep playing and TNN will launch all remaining forces for our final ride against the BURNINATOR. Pet Shop Boys will be heard in the magma pits of Abyssia...

[Kheldron]

Ok then QM had the lead for most of the game anyway. If Indy doesnt want to continue and he would be needed just to have a chance...well, hands down :)

I must also bow to Baalz who single handedly hold off the hoards from heavens for so long. That's a lesson in resilience. I learnt a lot just by watching the fights :rolleyes:

[archaeolept]

hey, i'm still enjoying it... i thought r'lyeh wanted to continue? if not,...

[DonCorazon]

didnt you offer a choice to play it out or end it? that's why i voted. I am fine either way. I just need more action - the BURNINATOR has been quiet in TNN for a long time and now that Ermor is gone, well, the Sidhe have nobody to play with.

[quantum_mechani]

Well if no one can agree on something I guess the default is just dropping the whole game. If that's where it's going though I'd prefer to get at least some closure by having somone look at it.

[DonCorazon]

I think a winner should be declared or we play on. I'd hate just to drop it with out even electing someone. There doesn't seem to be much interest in playing on but, again, I am down with whatever the majority is up for.

[CUnknown]

Maybe we can get Foodstamp to look at everyone and elect a winner? Or declare a tie, at least? I will ask him.

[Foodstamp]

I can take a look at the game for you guys and determine if there is an obvious winner. Just let me know and I will review each position tomorrow afternoon.

[CUnknown]

If there is no obvious winner, we should vote on whether to continue playing or not, majority decides. If Foodstamp doesn't declare a winner, and if we decide not to continue, the game will be called a draw.

[archaeolept]

But what is it to win, anyways, my friends?

Is not the greatest win living on in the memory of your kith and kin, and the peoples of a later age? And who better lives on in memory than those heroes whose great deeds excite the young and comfort the old? Those magnificent heroes whose thrilling battles against incomparable odds races the heart and causes the hands to grip the page in the telling of them? Glorious champions fighting for the noblest cause, and for the very personification of beauty and wisdom.

who wishes to read about old diko-diko the bakemono shaman, and his codification of the 17 laws of propriety, along w/ the 27 fully ordained precepts and 13 supernumenary clauses? Also noted for his ability to preserve his writings in a layer of his continuously dripping mucous. Or bt'sht the illithid whose ability to control undersea vermin and have them perform pre-scripted pantomines won him the Order of TlshPPbob 5 years running?

Of course you don't! You want to thrill to Lugal'dimmerankia's burning shield against the endless waves of the really rather flammable dead. Or Asmodel's legendarily obese Angelic form standing fast against the burning lava legions, even when blinded by his own fury. Or Igalima's Hulk-like brawn, braving even the horrors from beyond. These are the stories to startle the mind and entrance the heart! And what better foes in the retelling than the hordes of the dead, or the crafty burninating ones, whose every delight is another's pain? And what better friend than the doughty mystic smiths of Ulm, or the resolute astrologers, or the daring raiders of Eriu?

Of course, religious orthodoxies may attempt to ban these stories, but every shoolchild, after a day of rote repetition, will be reading these adventures under the covers anyways. I ask you, Mr. Pretenders, to tear down this wall of Dominion! Let your people go! Let them enjoy these tales of wonder!

As such, Pythium humbly accepts the likely universal acclamation.

thank you all.

[quantum_mechani]

Just let me know and I will review each position tomorrow afternoon.Not sure all who there is to let you know... I think we are unlikely to get everyone checking in on the thread at this point.

[Kheldron]

LOL :)

But what is it to win, anyways, my friends?

I ask you, Mr. Pretenders, to tear down this wall of Dominion! Let your people go! Let them enjoy these tales of wonder!

As such, Pythium humbly accepts the likely universal acclamation.

thank you all.

[Kheldron]

Where are we now in this game?
Could any observer tell us where we stand?

[archaeolept]

i think we're still squabbling about victory conditions ;)

as there were 3 types of victory conditions

Neutral: QM clearly has the lead here. whether it is enough to hold up against a concerted alliance, I don't know.

Good: Ulm kept the alliance together - Pythium's success is due to CU, so i think Ulm has the edge here

Evil: there can only be one Burninator

Personally, I liked the idea of this game, where each side has different restrictions and conditions. I'd say that denying both death and blood to Good is too much though - death is too important. Perhaps a lesser restriction on death magic? Also, something needs to be done to get the neutrals involved and not able to just watch and turtle.

[CUnknown]

I'm glad you liked it, archaeolept! I enjoyed it, too. I'm not sure how much the Neutrals liked it because there never was any reason for them to do anything. That would definitely need to be changed for a second game.

In my opinion, QM is probably the most powerful, although I can't count Ryleh out due to how he handed me my a$$ in a previous game as Ryleh. Also Pangea is pretty stout as well.

I took the server down, but I can put it back up if we decide to continue.

[quantum_mechani]

I'm glad you liked it, archaeolept! I enjoyed it, too. I'm not sure how much the Neutrals liked it because there never was any reason for them to do anything. That would definitely need to be changed for a second game.

In my opinion, QM is probably the most powerful, although I can't count Ryleh out due to how he handed me my a$$ in a previous game as Ryleh. Also Pangea is pretty stout as well.

I took the server down, but I can put it back up if we decide to continue.
Please put it up so somone can take a look at it and give us some closure. ;)

If Foodstamp isn't available I nominate Micah as judge.

[quantum_mechani]

*Bump*

Is the holdup getting the master password from foodstamp?

[CUnknown]

I asked Foodstamp to check out the game, it stayed up for a week, I don't think he ever checked it. The server is off right now...

Is someone else going to check it? They should contact me so I can put the server back up if so.

[Foodstamp]

Oh it seemed like no one was interested in this game being checked. That is why I never did do it after I got the appropriate IP etc.

It may be better if someone else judge it anyway because I was going to call it a draw unless someone met the predefined victory conditions.

[quantum_mechani]

It may be better if someone else judge it anyway because I was going to call it a draw unless someone met the predefined victory conditions.I have to agree that rather defeats the point of a judge. :D

[Foodstamp]

I'm afraid any other judgment would just be opinion ;).

[Micah]

After reviewing the various turn files it is evident that there is not a clear winner of the game. Shinuyama has a slight lead, but Rlyeh is close enough to be arguably tied in power, and Pangaea is in a strong third place that could tip the balance either way or potentially weasel his way into first if the other two began to duke it out in earnest, especially with help from the remaining nations.