Mega Age II -Kingmaker(Started)

[Xietor]

Introduction:

Mega Age II(Kingmaker) is a massive game that will, through the use of a mod, combine all 3 ages, Early, Middle, and Late into one massive game. Up to 61 players will be playing the game, including at least one of the game’s designers. Mega Age I(Perpetuality) hosted by Velusion, was an unprecedented success. There were over 37,000 views on the game thread, and a separate thread for trades was also created. The diplomacy was immense.

New Players are welcome, indeed encouraged, to take part in this game. Chances are you will have other new players in your area when you start. And it should prove fun even if you do not do well. But some new players lasted until the end of Mega Age I, in part because veteran players clashed among themselves while ignoring what they perceived as a lesser threat-or because newer players made friends with veteran players early on.

Edit: 61 players have been selected ona 1st come basis, and they have all been assigned a race to play. Presently the Game is awaiting the release of Patch 3.16, and it will begin shortly after the new patch is released.

Game Type: PBEM (Llamaserver)
Speed: 24 hours per host for the first 18 turns moving to 48 hours per host until around turn 70+ in which it moves to 72.

Quick host: enabled.

Era: Middle (this is for Indy strength). Indy strength will be default(5).

Players: 61 (all era nations combined into one).

Map: Kingmaker is a 900 province map with 15.0 provinces per player, including 107 water provinces. The map is a North/South wraparound. The map image is attached to this post. You must download and extract the rgb file to your Dominions3\Maps folder before the game starts. A picture of the map is below:
http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/55964f422b5f59c6547ef7ef892024232g.jpg (http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=lgndm7nzxo3&thumb=4)

Research Speed:Difficult.

Victory Conditions: 15 capitals or the surrendering of all other players. If the game does not end by May 1, 2009, the player with the most capitals on that date wins(it will be time to start next year's Big Game).

Graphs: On

Hall of Fame: 15

Renaming: On

Magic Site Frequency: 40

Passwords- Passwords are not needed for Llamaserver Games. No one will have access to your turn file unless they have access to your email. Nations SHOULD NOT be password protected, as this makes setting the race to ai doable by only Llamabeast, and he is not the game administrator. If the email address of your nation is ever changed, you will get notification of the change.

Mods: We will be using the Mega-Mod, the most recent version of Worthy Heroes, and the Kitchen Sink Mod. The Kitchen Sink Mod prevents the casting of 4 globals, Arcane Nexus, Burden of Time, Astral Corruption, and Utterdark. It also increases the path(s) required to forge certain gem producing items as follows:

Bloodstone: required paths to forge:3e 3b, increases the cost of this item accordingly.

Fever fetish: required paths to forge:2f 1n, increases the cost of this item accordingly.

Clam: required paths to forge:4w2n, increases the cost of this item accordingly. The cost of clams was raised the most due to a player in the Mega Age I game being able to wish 5 times per turn before turn 100 was reached.

Start Time: May 15-June 1.
Length: If you aren’t eliminated this game might last a very long time. Be prepared!
Patch Level: We will use 3.16. The game will be updated as new patches come out.

Race Selection:
If you recall, the 1st Mega Age game was forced to a grinding halt when the unit cap was reached. So the 2nd Mega Age Game will include all races from the Early, Middle, and Late Ages except LA Ermor and LA Ryleh. Additionally, EA and MA Pangaea will not be allowed to take turmoil. So do not sign up to play MA or EA Pangaea if you want turmoil scales(free spawn).

Each player should send me a list of ten races you want to play, with the race you want the most being listed as one. You can also send in a list of 5 races you do not want to play. You will not have to play one of these races. You can also add(no water races) to the bottom of your list, and I will try to honor the broader request as well.

1st Seed: After the deadline I will award nations based on the player's first choice. If multiple players desire the same nation I will randomly select the player that is assigned the nation. With one caveat, if a player is listed in the Hall of Fame and has won a large MP game, and he is tied with a player who is not in the Hall of Fame, then the newer player will get the race. The thinking is the veteran players can better adapt to playing a race that is not their top pick than a new player who may only know 1 or 2 races.
2nd Seed: We repeat the last step with those players that still have not been awarded nations and still have preferences.
3rd Seed: Repeat the Second Seed.
4th, 5th, 6th, etc. Seed: Continue until there are no more conflicts.
Last Seed: On the seed where there are no more conflicts the final preferred nations are awarded and all the remaining players (those that ran out of preferences or never provided any) are randomly assigned the remaining nations.

Dr. P is doing significant work on the map. In exchange, he is the lone player that will be guaranteed his 1st choice of race and his choice is Niefelheim. So no one else should list that race as a choice.

No delays for any reason will be granted until we are down to 15 or less players. I highly recommend you ask around and find a temporary substitute if you plan on being gone for an extended time. Delays will be liberally granted on request over major holidays(Christmas, Thanksgiving, New Years).

Due to the massive number of players, and to ensure fairness, the stale turn rule will be strictly enforced. No one will stale more than twice in a row before they are replaced or put on AI unless they let me know beforehand. If you let me know you will be gone you will not be replaced but the game will not be held up for you.

Rules:
Notable exploits banned;

1. If you capture Bogus and his friends, you can script those captured units to attack mages, but you cannot copy their "attack mage" orders to any other commanders or units.

2. You cannot cast battlefield enchantments that cause damage to enemy units, then retreat the casting mage before 5 rounds of combat passes. In other words, if you cast Wrathful Skies, you cannot order that mage to retreat before 5 turns has passed (your last available scripting order can be retreat). And this rule includes items that cast such spells.

3. You cannot overload someone’s lab with the purpose of maliciously filling it so they cannot receive or forge items.

Future Steps:

1) Download the map. Extract the Kingmaker Map from the zip file and place it in your dominions3/maps folder. It is linked here:http://www.mediafire.com/?ji7aamj0zii

2) Download the Kingmaker Mod: http://www.mediafire.com/?ybwmajc1fn0

Worthy Heroes 1.8 mod: http://www.mediafire.com/?8lglxjfhfjf

You will need to extract these files/folders to your dominions3/mods folder. You will then be able to enable/disable the mod via the dom3 game menu > Preferences. You do not need to enable this mod to upload pretenders. In fact all mods should be off when creating your pretender!

3) Create and Send in your pretenders.

- Make sure you have no mods enabled
- Go to Game Tools -> Create a pretender god in Dominions
- Go to the savedgames/newlords folder in the dominions directory, and find your pretender file (e.g. mid_pythium_0.2h)
- E-mail the file to: pretenders[ at ]llamaserver[ dot ]net
- Crucially, you must have the game name "KingMaker_Early", "KingMaker_Mid" or "KingMaker_Late" depending on what age your nation is from in the subject line of your e-mail.

EA Arcoscephale - Cor2
EA Ermor- Slobby
EA Ulm – DaveCG
EA Tien Chi- Cicadian
EA Oceania- Herode
EA Fomoria- Tyrant
EA Marverni - Griefor
EA Sauromatia – Bernardo
EA Mictlan –Meglobob
EA Lanka - Falkor
EA Abysia- Bananadine
EA Caelum -Janim
EA C'tis - Tichy
EA Pangaea -
EA Agartha-
EA Tir na O'og - Reay
EA Vanheim -Aezeal
EA Helheim - Foodstamp
EA Niefelheim – Dr. Praetorious
EA Kailasa - Hadrian_2
EA Yomi - Kristoffer O
EA Atlantis- Agema
EA R'lyeh – Zoshan
EA Hinnom- Dryaunda

MA Arcoscephale- Twan
MA Ermor - Unoptimized
MA Pythium - Yandav
MA Man -
MA Ulm - Darkwind
MA Marignon- Zenzei
MA Mictlan -Sum1lost
MA Tien Chi – Revolution
MA Machaka - AreaofEffect
MA Agartha - Cidi
MA Abysia - Moderation
MA Caelum - Cupido2
MA C'tis - Digress
MA Pangaea
MA Vanheim - seryozha
MA Jotunheim - BigandScary
MA Bander Log - Atul
MA Shinuyama - Ottergreat
MA Atlantis - MrSparkle
MA R'lyeh - Salamander8
MA Oceania –Baalz
MA Eriu – Cleveland
MA -Ashgod- Gregstrom

LA Bogarus-Jazzepi
LA Arcoscephale - Xietor
LA Pythium- Lingchih
LA Man - Drake49
LA Ulm -
LA Marignon - AdmiralZhao
LA Mictlan - Folket/EvilHomer Team
LA Tien Chi -Ossa
LA Jomon - Hoplosternum
LA Agartha - Zeldor
LA Abysia - Baruk
LA Caelum - Lolomo
LA C'tis - Lllamabeast
LA Pangaea - Amhazair
LA Midgard - Coobe
LA Utgard - DonCorazon
LA Patala -Firewalker
LA Atlantis - Shigure
LA Garth-Chrispedersen

[Zeldor]

I am in.

And you forget about other exploits, like MoD.

[Baalz]

I'm in.

[IndyPendant]

I am in.

I *strongly* recommend Very Hard research.

[ComTrav]

I'm in.

[Herode]

Yep !!!!

[Meglobob]

Happy, happy, I am in.

Hope we get the full 60!

[Zenzei]

I'll play.

[Salamander8]

I'm in.

[yandav]

I'm in.

[cupido2]

I'm in.

[Unoptimized]

May I just say, I am most definatly in!

[Amhazair]

Xietor said:
You do not want to miss this game. If it is anything like the last year's game, it is a one-of-a-kind mp experience.

Soon it will be a two-of-a-kind mp experience. Count me in again. Last time was great.

P.S. I felt research was slow enough (at difficult) the last time around.

[Twan]

I'm in.

[bernardo]

I'm in, as Sauromatia if possible.

[Falkor]

I'm in.

[Amhazair]

bernardo said:
I'm in, as Sauromatia if possible.

Race Selection:

Each player should send me a list of ten races you want to play, with the race you want the most being listed as one. You can also send in a list of 5 races you do not want to play. You will not have to play one of these races. You can also add(no water races) to the bottom of your list, and I will try to honor the broader request as well.

1st Seed: After the deadline I will award nations based on the player's first choice. If multiple players desire the same nation I will randomly select the player that is assigned the nation. With one caveat, if a player is listed in the Hall of Fame and has won a large MP game, and he is tied with a player who is not in the Hall of Fame, then the newer player will get the race. The thinking is the veteran players can better adapt to playing a race that is not their top pick than a new player who may only know 1 or 2 races.
2nd Seed: We repeat the last step with those players that still have not been awarded nations and still have preferences.
3rd Seed: Repeat the Second Seed.
4th, 5th, 6th, etc. Seed: Continue until there are no more conflicts.
Last Seed: On the seed where there are no more conflicts the final preferred nations are awarded and all the remaining players (those that ran out of preferences or never provided any) are randomly assigned the remaining nations.

[DonCorazon]

Sign me up, thanks!

[Zoshan]

I would like to play. k thanks

[Hoplosternum]

I'm in. Thanks!

[Slobby]

Count me in! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[AlgaeNymph]

Sign me up. I'll PM you my preferred nations.

[Digress]

Sign me up.

[Shigure]

I am interested in playing.

[AreaOfEffect]

I want to play.

[Hadrian_II]

Im in (there is really no place for maenads? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif)

[Xietor]

I am sure a 1st pick of EA Pangaea with no free spawn will make that race yours to play Hadrian! Hehe. Talk about a tough road to hoe. But no free spawn. And I will have Llamabeast check the scales of the EA and MA Pangaea races prior to the start of the game. If they have turmoil, i will just have him switch it to misfortune or death. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[LoloMo]

Sign me up!

[chrispedersen]

I'd like to be in: (Newb)

1. EA- Tien Chi
2. EA- Lanka
3. EA- Niefel
4. MA- Man
5. MA- Jot
6. LA- Bogarus

Thats all I really want to play.

[lch]

Xietor said:
Mega Age I(Perpetuality) hosted by Velusion, was an unprecedented success. There were over 37,000 posts on the game thread


If you put all the posts from all the threads in all the Illwinter forums together, then maybe you get 37k posts... The combined Perpetuality threads had 37k views, though. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Xietor]

Ooops http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/redface.gif

Close to 2100 posts. Still by far the most viewed and popular game on the forums.

Well Chris, that is one strategy to make people think twice about listing the race you want most by publicly listing your picks.

Most have privately sent them to me by pm. While I cannot guarantee you that you will get one of your selections,
I think you have a good shot, especially since some of those races are not perceived as powerful in mp.

[Cicadian]

I'm in

[Lingchih]

Well, I think I will join in, I can't resist a mega-game. I'll fight through the PBEM.

[Xietor]

BTW, since I have the benefit of seeing everyone's picks, I will select a race that no one else picks for their 1st race.

This game, for once, I am just in to have fun. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif

[Foodstamp]

I'm in it to win it!

picks coming soon

[Zeldor]

I hope I do not win. It would probably mean spending around one year with huge micro http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Xietor:

Hmm... do newbie games go also into HoF? [no, I didn't win one]

[Revolution]

I'm in

[Xietor]

Zeldor asked, "Hmm... do newbie games go also into HoF? [no, I didn't win one]."

They are listed in the hof, but i will not penalize the winners of the newbie games on race selection. Most of the names in the hof I recognize, and they are mostly players that can compete with almost any race.

[Xietor]

Since RanDom was used to create the map we will be using, Ballbarian, Random's creator was kind enough to use a computer script he developed to place starting locations of capitals.

While the water races definitely will not start in the smaller ponds, the image of the 60 capitals placed on the map will give you a good idea of the spacing.

http://www.dom3minions.com/~semirand/60nations/Trophy4neomatrixMarked.jpg

[Fal]

Count me in please

[Baalz]

What time frame are we looking at kicking this off? I want to play Gath...;)

[Xietor]

The earliest will be May 15, and the more likely date is may 21. Race selections are not due until may 7. It will take me a couple of days to get all the race choices squared away. Then the players will all have to make pretenders, upload pretenders, get the map and mods.

There will likely be a few bumps along the way with so many players. We are over halfway full though, and the sign up has not been up for 24 hours yet.

11 players have already sent in race selections. So I am well pleased with the initial progress. And some players that said they will play have not signed up yet. So I am cautiously optimistic that we can fill all the slots.

[AdmiralZhao]

I will sign up.

[Zeldor]

I am thinking about race selection tactic still http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif I want to get non-crappy race at least once. Well, something strong for a change.

[Baalz]

It sounds like if it's not out by then the new patch should be out any day at that point, if that's the case it'd probably be good to wait for it before starting.

[coobe]

i am in, dont care much about the nation

[otthegreat]

I'm in. I'd try any race.

[Dedas]

I'm in.

[Tichy]

I'm in.

[Kristoffer O]

Patch is likely to be finished next weekend, unless the beta group comes up with lot of stuff during the week.

I successfully managed to prevent JK from releasing it today. He wasn,'t aware that there were still some descr and fixes missing.

[Tyrant]

I'm in.

[Xietor]

We have 40/60 so far. In a 24 hour period.

[James243]

I'm in for sure.

Where are you Aezeal?!

[Kristoffer O]

He's licking his wounds I suppose http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Some jaguars has teared him up badly I think.

[moderation]

I'm in. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif How many spots are left?

[Xietor]

18 spots left(though i am saving a spot for llamabeast if he wants in. So 17). But i will take 5-6 alternates, as the game will not start for some time, and i predict not all players that sign up will get their pretenders in.

[DaveCG]

If you'll have a totally green newbie like myself, I'm in, and I'd like to go Jotunheim, if that's possible.

[Xietor]

New players are welcome. I sent you a PM about race selection.

[Darkwind]

I'm also new, but I figure I might as well jump aboard. Sign me up!

[DrPraetorious]

I'm in the process of adding N/S wraparound to the map. This is what it looks like presently, it'll take me a few more days of work to get it looking nice, but only slight changes to the map file (I rotate the map back to the original position and all the existing province borders will still work.)

Let me know if anyone has any complaints or suggestions http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

[Cor2]

I am in.

By the way, last time there was a population bonus for last seeders. Is there some sort of bonus now?

[Xietor]

There will be no population bonus.

Welcome aboard Cor.

Dr. P assures me the n/s wrap can be done without connecting the 2 bodies of water that I want to keep separate for the reasons stated in the map selection thread.

[Zeldor]

Xietor:

But there will be 2 new races in patch, so 62 players and 30 more provinces needed on the map.

[Xietor]

We will just leave out the 2 races no one selects. I do not want to redo any maps at this stage.

[Reay]

I'm in.

How many spots left?

[Xietor]

13 or 14, depending on whether llamabeast wants to play.
He is on holiday(as they say over there) and I want to make sure i save him a spot since he is kind enough to host the game on his server.

He gets back 4/27, so i will know soon.

[Drake49]

I'm in.

[Mazel]

I'm in.

[Cidi]

Grettings from Spain.

I would like to play

[Hellkor]

I'll give it a shot http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Ossa]

I'd like to join.

[cleveland]

If I don't play, DonCorazon has threatened to attack in Alexandria.

I suppose I have no choice: count me in.

[Xietor]

I do not suppose we have any volunteer to update the Mega Age Mod(single age mod) with the newer races? It takes a person with some graphical skill to make the banners for the races.

That will be necessary before they can be included.

[Firewalker]

If some slots are left, I'll join up.

[Jazzepi]

I'd like to join if there are any slots left.

Jazzepi

[Xietor]

54/60. we are getting close to being a full game. Though i will take some alternates as i can guarantee there will be a few players that do not get their pretenders sent in when we get to that step.

[BigandScary]

I'm in

[Xietor]

While I do not want to influence anyone's race selections, when a certain race is picked by 3 players as number 1, I will post that fact so others will know that the chances of them getting that race are not good. But you can still pick any race you want as number one.

With over 20 people having already submitted races, or saying they have no preference, only 1 race so far has had 3 players take them as a 1st pick-Sauromatia(who was one of the very 1st races killed off in the 1st Big Game btw).

[DonCorazon]

cleveland said:
If I don't play, DonCorazon has threatened to attack in Alexandria.

I suppose I have no choice: count me in.



http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

I just don't want to die alone Cleveland!

[llamabeast]

Hello! I'm back. And I think I will play, it looks exciting. Thanks for organising it Xietor.

If no-one else does, I can probably do the banners for the new nations.

[Xietor]

Welcome Back Llamabeast! Server ran flawlessly for me in your absence.


Kingmaker Cast of Characters(so far)

Kingmaker

1. Xietor
2. Dr. P
3. KristopherO
4. Baalz
5. Indypendant
6. ComTrav
7. Herode
8. Meglobob
9. Zenzei
10. Salamander8
11. Yandav
12. Cupido2
13. Unoptimized
14. Amhazair
15. Twan
16. Bernardo
17. Falkor
18. DonCorazon
19. Zoshan
20. Hoplosternum
21. Slobby
22. Dryaunda
23. Digress
24. Shigure
25. Areaofeffect
26. Hadrian_2
27. Lolomo
28. Chrispedersen
29. Cicadian
30. Lingchih
31. Foodstamp
32. Revolution
33. Fal
34. Admiralzhao
35. Coobe
36. Otthegreat
37. Dedas
38. Tichy
39. Tyrant
40. James243
41. Moderation
42. DaveCG
43. Darkwind
44. Cor2
45. Reay
46. Drake49
47. Mazel
48. Cidi
49. Hellkor
50. Ossa
51. Cleveland
52. Firewalker
53. Jazzepi
54. BigandScary
55. Llamabeast
56. Atul
57. Sum1lost
58. Zeldor(almost missed you!).
59. GWAR
60. Mr. Sparkle

1st alternate- Janim
2nd alternate- seryozha
3rd alternate- baruk
4th alternate- Evilhomer/Folket team
5th alternate Gregstrom

[Hadrian_II]

Xietor said:
With over 20 people having already submitted races, or saying they have no preference, only 1 race so far has had 3 players take them as a 1st pick-Sauromatia(who was one of the very 1st races killed off in the 1st Big Game btw).



Sauro was killed by MA Pangaea (with maenads), as MA Pangaea (with maenads) is now MA Pangaea (without maenads) sauro might last longer http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Xietor]

You may need to start drinking some Green Tea Hadrian, as that is said to help prevent memory loss. MA Ctis in fact defeated Sauromatia, and I owned that capital until the very end of the game when I TRADED it to you for MA Caelum's capital.

[Xietor]

With it looking like we will have 60, or very close to it, players, there will be no AI nations at the start. If we end up with only 55 players, then I will use the extra room for
spacing starting capitals further apart(i.e. more elbow room).

[atul]

I know that somewhere along the road I'm going to regret this...

...but...

I'm in.

Didn't learn anything from Perpetuality, after all. :p

I'd suggest Very Hard research instead of just difficult and note that 65% of map is absolutely huge portion, no nation in Perp got nearly that big before game imploding. But I'm game any way.

[sum1lost]

I'm in.

[Twan]

and note that 65% of map is absolutely huge portion, no nation in Perp got nearly that big before game imploding. But I'm game any way.



I'd also prefer victory conditions that can be achieved (before running into unit number problems, or having to end by agreement). I think 35 or 40% of the map, or 15 VP with one per capitol would be sufficient for a very long game (and make players more offensive as game has a chance to end without their agreement).

[Meglobob]

Was anyone close to 25 capitals in the previous megagame?

The 65% provinces is a very unrealistic victory condition but contolling a certain number of capitals will be achievable, not by me but certainly by someone else... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I am ok with difficult or very difficult research, whatever the majority want.

[atul]

Meglobob said:
Was anyone close to 25 capitals in the previous megagame?


I doubt it. Province-wise, I was one of the largest, and I had 10 capitals, with three others right at my border. So unless someone had min/maxed capital conquering really heavily, I'd believe no-one had more than 15 capitals. On nearly turn 100 in a game that required several hours to play a turn.

[Xietor]

I agree on the victory condition. But I wanted feedback.

I think capitals are the way to go. It is hard to take a capital. After all of my wars in the Big game I only had 7 at game's end.

But this game is a smaller map, and I do not anticipate it ending due to unit limits with no la ryleh or la ermor, and no turmoil for ea and ma Pangaea.

But I would also like an achievable in 1 year victory condition. How about 15 capitals? That means you have probably killed 25 percent of the nations playing?

we could also put a time limit in(since we will want a Big Game again next summer)and if no one reaches 15 capitals,
then the player with the most capitals next May 1, 2009 wins. That gives a concrete ending time.

Also, if by some chance the unit limit is reached, which i doubt, then we can say the nation with the most capitals at that point wins. That will give powerful nations an incentive to be aggressive the entire game.

[Dedas]

Meglobob said:
Was anyone close to 25 capitals in the previous megagame?

The 65% provinces is a very unrealistic victory condition but contolling a certain number of capitals will be achievable, not by me but certainly by someone else... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I am ok with difficult or very difficult research, whatever the majority want.



I'm with you Meglobob!

Hard research!

[Xietor]

The problem with very hard research is the nations without tramplers or a heavy bless, that rely on magic to defend themselves, are toast. If MA Man cannot get evoc 5 in a reasonably short period, they have no chance against a rush nation that relies on powerful capital recruitable troops.

I think the Hard research is hard enough. And it took plenty long to get stuff researched on the hard level in Perpetuality.

[Herode]

Xietor said:
we could also put a time limit in(since we will want a Big Game again next summer)and if no one reaches 15 capitals,
then the player with the most capitals next May 1, 2009 wins. That gives a concrete ending time.



Agreed

[atul]

I don't have problem with hard research, was just giving you the feedback you asked for. :p

Anyway, in Perp, MA Agartha, MA C'tis, Pangaea, LA R'lyeh and LA Ermor were all quite prominent in end-game, and none had sacreds or tramplers. Just playing devil's advocate here. Victory conditions sound good.

[Xietor]

3 of those nations had free spawn, and Ctis had an early war against a newer player. By the time I fought a tough sacred nation(Lanka), I had banelords.

Had I started out next to lanka, I would have been toast.

MA Ermor(Lolomo) was quite powerful as well. And again, he had tons of free spawn as well as tons of clams. MA Ermor may be the biggest free spawn nation left!

[Amhazair]

I'm fine with capital VP's, but I would put the number a bit higher than 15.

It is true that in perpetuality no one had gotten those 15, but then, no one had focused on getting capitals either. If you are a strong nation in an otherwise powerful position it should be quite possible to conquer a decent number of capitals in 2 turns, by picking on weaker nations, or capitals already conquered by medium-rate powers.

[Amhazair]

Xietor said:
With over 20 people having already submitted races, or saying they have no preference, only 1 race so far has had 3 players take them as a 1st pick-Sauromatia(who was one of the very 1st races killed off in the 1st Big Game btw).

Yeah, I was afraid that might be the case. I would really have liked to play Sauro, but I was convinced it would be so popular there would be no point in putting it on top of my list. Seems I was right.

[Xietor]

I am still open for victory conditions. It seems 25 is too high, as that is almost half the world, and one experienced player thinks 15 may be too low. Anyone else think 15 is too low?

Capitals in the midgame are typically not that easy to wrest away from a player, as that likely means they are dead. And other powerful players may start aiding those you fight when you get above 10 capitals.

[Amhazair]

Well, I only played one capital VP point game before in my life, and that one was with anonymous player and no diplomacy, which obviously made coördinating against the leader harder, so take that 'experience' with a grain of salt. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[GWAR]

Im in if there is still space.

[DonCorazon]

my one VP game experience was Epotara - 17 players vying for 5 VPs. i thought that game worked fairly well. it was pretty challenging to get 5 capitals - once someone got within 2 everyone was on alert and it was only through some tricky diplomacy (to put it generously) that someone managed to grab the last 1.

the game did get into a bit of a quiet lull for awhile so i don't know if the same ratio would make sense, e.g. using ~ 1/3 of the # players as the target amount of VPs. that sounds a bit high to me - i think the game might be more interesting and exciting with a slightly lower total.

of course this is based on a data set of one...
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[IndyPendant]

Well, what if we compromised? 20 capitals is 1/3 the map, a reasonable number imo. Alternatively, could we say 15 capitals held consecutively for 3 full turns? That would give people a chance to respond if someone does manage it...

And I would really like to push for Very Hard research again. With Hard research, everyone is going to be finished researching like halfway through the game, long before the winner is found. Anyone seconding me--or strongly opposed? ; )

[GWAR]

Very hard sounds good to me.

[AdmiralZhao]

I just finished playing a large game with Hard Research, and even with those settings bless nations have a huge advantage in the early game. I was playing with triple blessed jaguars, and the non-bless nations that I steamrolled in the first 2 years of the game did not have much of a chance or very much fun. I think that if with we play with Very Hard Research, we will see an initial phase of the game where all the non-bless nations are scoured from the face of the earth, and then a second phase of the game where the bless nations grudgingly turn to research in order to deal with their similarly blessed neighbors.

In an ideal world, I would like to see the research costs for levels 1-5 set to normal, and then after that have the costs scale far more quickly. That would give non-bless nations more of fighting chance, while still saving some spells for the late game.

[IndyPendant]

Hmm, that's a good point. One I hadn't thought of. It's too bad though; I *hate* Dom3 lategame. With Hard research, the entire back half of this game will consist of nothing but Mages and SCs, with individual military units useless as anything but meatshields. (Well okay, I exagerrate. But not by much!)

All right, consider me shifted back to neutral on Hard or Very Hard research. I will play either way (which probably means Hard ; ).

[AreaOfEffect]

I'm personally in favor of Hard.

I do however understand the concern people have for late game strategies arriving in the middle of the game's run. AdmiralZhao's "ideal world" does sound appealing, but isn't possible as far as I know in the way he would want it.

My best suggestion would actually be to make an additional mod. It wouldn't be hard at all to take all the lower level spells and move them even lower by one rank and then set the research to very hard.

[MrSparkle]

If you still have room I'd like to join as a player or as an alternate if not.

[Twan]

AreaOfEffect said:
My best suggestion would actually be to make an additional mod. It wouldn't be hard at all to take all the lower level spells and move them even lower by one rank and then set the research to very hard.



If the goal is only to give more chance to non bless nations against sacred/trampler/awake pretenders rushes a mod to reduce just the levels of the few spells countering them, or make some low level spells more efficient, seem easily doable, just changing one or two spells per path (and only fatigue/immobilisation spells, so it doesn't change the balance of battle summons / dammages).

Edit : some suggestions

Air... has already false fetter a very good level 1 spell to immobilize ennemies (but only usable at short range)
confusion may get reduced level (2 or 3 instead of 5, as thaumaturgy is not a very popular school for air nations)

Astral... mind burn (level 2) already give a way to kill low hp sacreds
paralyze level may be reduced to make easier to stop tramplers or other big creatures

Earth... has already earth grip/meld at level 1 and 2
earth meld is fatigue heavy and earth 3 so lowering the cost or earth level may eventually be a good idea to give nations like Ulm more chances against an early rush

Death... terror and ghost grip levels may be reduced

Fire... Prison of fire and rage may get reduced levels

Nature... has tangle vine/vine arrow in level 1/2 but range/precision are bad
Sleep/Sleep Cloud and/or Panic are good candidates for -1 level

Water... Slime (level 1) is a very good spell against low numbers of powerful units out of the seas (if they don't have high MR) ; making possible to use it underwater may reduce the Oceania's sacreds advantage among sea nations
Numbness may get its level reduced to 2, offering a way to weaken high MR units (if they are not cold immune)

[Hoplosternum]

Or just restrict the awesome power of the heavy bless strategies. None of these nations become hopeless if their bless is slightly weakened.

Just don't allow more than one 9+ path on a Pretender. Or don't allow any Imprisoned Pretenders. That will still allow powerful blesses but just weaken them a little.

[Janlm]

i'd like to play if there is still space.

[Xietor]

The game is full, but is is almost guaranteed some players will not like their race, or real life crops up between now and when the game actually starts.

So Janim, while you are a 1st alternate, I would be absolutely shocked if all 60 players in front of you all end up playing.

[Xietor]

If someone is willing to make a "layered research mod" i will endorse it and put it up for vote.

Otherwise I think we should use the hard level. The layers should be as follows:

research paths 1-2=normal
research paths 3-6=hard
research paths 7-9 very hard

[Janlm]

jeez that was fast, ok i'll wait and hope there will be space.

[seryozha]

If someone gives up I would be glad to take his place http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif I am late but thought sign up would open on 1st may :-/

[Kristoffer O]

Another possibility is to remove divine blessing, and lower the area of bless. Then you'll need a bunch of priests to bless your army.

Or cap research at lvl 7. No lvl 8 or 9 spells.

[Xietor]

Ser, I think as the 2nd alternate you are in great shape as well.

My apologies for starting sign up early, but i feared a rush of new games starting on 4/27 when llamabeast got back from his Thailand trip.

And since we needed 60 players, I did not want to risk too many people getting overextended with other games before they realized this game was coming.

I like the idea of a mod making the lower paths easier and working up to very hard for paths 7-9.

With the 1st 2 levels being normal. That gives you a few decent spells(lighting, and also a few buffs if you have an awake sc(personal regen, summon earth power, alt spells).

[Twan]

A layered research mod is not exactly doable.

It's possible to reduce by one research levels of all spells under a done level, then use very hard research, but it would mean there will be an empty level somewhere (and all level 1 spells would be known from start, or levels 1 and 2 spells merged in level 1).

[baruk]

I'd like to play in this game if possible. I suppose that makes me 2nd alternate?

[Xietor]

3rd actually. Though a few players only listed a couple nations and said they were only interested in playing those. And they may not get them. And in most bigger games at least a couple players need replaced at the pretender selection stage.

So there is a good chance for 3-5 alternates getting in-as long as you are not terribly picky about the race.

[Xietor]

Apparently a tiered research tree cannot be achieved through a mod. Good idea though.

[Meglobob]

Heh, lets not hit bless nations too hard. How many bless nations made it through to the last 10 or so in the last megagame?

Probably best to settle on hard research, it seemed to work out very well in the last megagame.

Are we going for 20 capitals, 1/3 of the total on the map? Or of course as many as anyone can get 1st of May next year.

[Baalz]

I agree with MegloBob, I think this is a paper tiger issue as despite the general sentiment dual bless nations to not dominate games in general, nor the previous mega games with hard research.

[Evilhomer]

The cost of clams was raised the most due to a player in the Mega Age I game being able to wish 5 times per turn before turn 100 was reached.



Stop nerfing my evil Rlyeh strats http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

On another note I can sign up me and folket (yes we will share one nation between us due to time/internet restrictions)

[Cidi]

Excuse me
Xietor ¿what is your email? I don´t found it

Thanks

[Baalz]

This is awesome that there are so many new guys expanding the community that this game is already got a queue of alts! Very much welcome guys!

@Cidi: if you click on anybody's name it'll bring you to a screen with an option to send a private message to that user.

[Xietor]

Reasoning is a bit flawed on the bless nations. The last megagame is not a great indicator for these reasons:

1. Player skill is not equal

2. Just because the bless nations did not do well over the long haul does not mean they did not kill off their 1st victim rather quickly. Lanka had killed 2-3 nations before he ran into me, and the only reason i stopped him was i was number 4 on his list, and not number 1 or 2.

By the time K attacked me i had several banelords in constr 6 and in some cases 8 gear. EA Mictlan was tearing through
2 nations until both ma ryleh and I lent a hand. 4 against 1 and their triple blessed jags finally were vanquished.

3. LA Ermor and LA Ryleh-the free spawn nations killed off some of the more potent bless nations. And they will not be in this game to eat Niefel giants, vanheims etc(tough prenerf).

So yes, once a nation that has good scales gets its research kicking, it can fight off a good bless nation. It is making it to that point that is hard if you are unlucky and start next to a triple blessed jaguar nation.

That said, we will not nerf in any way the bless nations. I think taking away divine bless would lead to more micromanagement-something a long game certainly needs no more of.

So we will just use the hard research, and maybe a down the road patch for next year's game will have a game option to adjust the research levels by each of the 9 paths, and not just all or nothing.

[Gregstrom]

Could I be put down as an alternate please?

[Xietor]

Kingmaker Cast of Characters(so far)

Kingmaker

1. Xietor
2. Dr. P
3. KristopherO
4. Baalz
5. Indypendant
6. ComTrav
7. Herode
8. Meglobob
9. Zenzei
10. Salamander8
11. Yandav
12. Cupido2
13. Unoptimized
14. Amhazair
15. Twan
16. Bernardo
17. Falkor
18. DonCorazon
19. Zoshan
20. Hoplosternum
21. Slobby
22. Dryaunda
23. Digress
24. Shigure
25. Areaofeffect
26. Hadrian_2
27. Lolomo
28. Chrispedersen
29. Cicadian
30. Lingchih
31. Foodstamp
32. Revolution
33. Fal
34. Admiralzhao
35. Coobe
36. Otthegreat
37. Dedas
38. Tichy
39. Tyrant
40. James243
41. Moderation
42. DaveCG
43. Darkwind
44. Cor2
45. Reay
46. Drake49
47. Mazel
48. Cidi
49. Hellkor
50. Ossa
51. Cleveland
52. Firewalker
53. Jazzepi
54. BigandScary
55. Llamabeast
56. Atul
57. Sum1lost
58. Zeldor(almost missed you!).
59. GWAR
60. Mr. Sparkle

1st alternate- Janim
2nd alternate- seryozha
3rd alternate- baruk
4th alternate- Evilhomer/Folket team
5th alternate Gregstrom

[Amhazair]

Evilhomer said:
On another note I can sign up me and folket (yes we will share one nation between us due to time/internet restrictions)

I hope you make it in. I want my revenge. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Xietor]

Nations that have had 3 people pick them as their number one:
EA Sauromatia
MA Mictlan

Others are free to select these nations as their number one pick, but it is only a 1 in 3 chance now.

I will roll 2 dice on the morning of May 8 for each player in a "tie." Hopefully I will be able to post race selections by the next morning. I may be sending messages to people to ask them if they are ok with a certain race. But I may not have time.

My main goal is to get each person with a race that is on their list, if at all possible. For those with only 2 races on your list and "I do not really care to play anyone else" I hope you get a good roll on your 2 races. Nothing I can do if you do not. That is the reason we have alternates.

For those who said they will play any race, I will see who is left after the 1st round is done, and see if you have a preference among those races that are left. Though i do believe the pickings will be slim after the 1st round.
With a few exceptions, there has been a pretty good spread
so far of people picking different races.

[Slobby]

Xietor said:
Nations that have had 3 people pick them as their number one:
MA Mictlan




LOL what? I thought I would have been the only one! haha http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[DrPraetorious]

How's this? Still needs a great deal more prettying, which I will do steadily until the game starts.

[Xietor]

Lanka joins the list of nations picked by 3 persons as their number one choice.

EA Sauromatia
MA Mictlan
EA Lanka

That does not mean others cannot select them one. It does mean your chance of winning a roll off is not good.

[Jazzepi]

DrPraetorious said:
How's this? Still needs a great deal more prettying, which I will do steadily until the game starts.



You'll always look pretty to me.

Jazzepi

[Amhazair]

Jazzepi said:

DrPraetorious said:
How's this? Still needs a great deal more prettying, which I will do steadily until the game starts.



You'll always look pretty to me.

Jazzepi

Allways a beautiful sight to see young love bloom.
I wish you two the very best of luck. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Agema]

I'll sign up as well for the alternatives list, or if someone decides they can't make it, etc.

[Digress]

Amhazair said:
Allways a beautiful sight to see young love bloom.
I wish you two the very best of luck. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif



No offence meant ... but are you sure that Messrs. Jazzepi and DrPraetorious are still in the bloom of youth ?

[Bananadine]

Oh no I am another person who missed signup! I was waiting for a new thread, and not reading the existing ones. Alternates are for replacing players who don't ever begin the game right, and are not intended to be mid-game substitutions? Anyway I guess I'm volunteering to be an alternate. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Janlm]

won't be long before we can make a second 60 player game with us latecommers...

[Xietor]

45/60 have sent in their pretender picks, or stated in a pm that they have no preference. When I get 50 I will list those who i do not have picks from just to make sure I have no missed someone's picks through inadvertence.

Plenty of time left though. May 7 is the deadline.

[Amhazair]

Digress said:

Amhazair said:
Allways a beautiful sight to see young love bloom.
I wish you two the very best of luck. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif



No offence meant ... but are you sure that Messrs. Jazzepi and DrPraetorious are still in the bloom of youth ?

I meant the love to be young, not the people involved. Young love in the retirement home is endearing too. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Jazzepi]

Amhazair said:

Digress said:

Amhazair said:
Allways a beautiful sight to see young love bloom.
I wish you two the very best of luck. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif



No offence meant ... but are you sure that Messrs. Jazzepi and DrPraetorious are still in the bloom of youth ?

I meant the love to be young, not the people involved. Young love in the retirement home is endearing too. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif



Where's my Viagra?

Jazzepi

[coobe]

i have no race preference, hope you counted that in =)

[Xietor]

I have you coobe.

[coobe]

thx for managing this game, will be fun

[Ironhawk]

Xietor, would you mind putting me down as an alternate as well? I desperately want to play this game but I also desperately fear the micro http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Might be fun to sub for people tho, perhaps doomed nations if those players walk away?

[Aezeal]

I want IN!!

You asked me goddammit..

[DonCorazon]

IH, you have to get in. Fiddlesticks should not be content to just rule Epotara.

[Amhazair]

Xietor, you didn't fix the capital start locations for land nations yet, or did you? If you haven't, seeing how much intrest there is in the game, I see no harm in starting with 63 players instead of 60. That would give an average of 14.29 provinces/player instead of 15. Not like that's exageratedly cramped.

Just an idea.

[Xietor]

I can add more people as alternates, but I have 5 already. It is unlikely more than 5 will not submit a pretender due to real life time issues or not liking their race. In the event that does happen, I will look at the thread to see who is next in line.

Yes, I did alert as many as possible that sign ups were ongoing, but i cannot make more spots than there are(: It is a first come basis. I sent about 50 messages out to players who were in my other games, were in last year's mega game, or who were actually mentioned in this thread by their friends.

But I did not guarantee anyone a spot in the game, other than the person whose server we are using, the map editor, and KO, the game designer. Sorry if anyone got that impression. Though to be honest, I am quite surprised at how quickly the game slots filled up.

There will likely be ample opportunities to sub in this game, but I realize that is not the same as actually starting it.

I could have made the map a little bigger and added a slot for every race, but I am very wary of the unit cap.

There is already 14.68 provinces for each land nation(107 water). I have not yet done starting spot, but I will soon.
Well before May, 7. I want, if at all possible, to give each capital 4 starting adjoining provinces.

[Aezeal]

I messaged you a while ago I wanted in..
and subbing indeed isn't the same http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[WraithLord]

Oh bummer, I'll have to miss this one since I'm on vacation http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

This is sure to be a great game so I hope you have fun guys, my best regards from Buenos Aires http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Xietor]

Aezeal ,

your message actually said since Dr. P received Niefel for doing the map there was a 50 percent chance you would play. Hardly a ringing endorsement.

After the game had filled up, you sent me another message saying you wanted to play, and asked me to boot someone out to make room for you. heh. I assumed you were joking.

Most fundamentally, messaging me is not enough. One must actually post his intention to participate on the game thread. That is the only way I can keep track of who signed up and in what order. And, equally important, it lets other potential players know where they stand as well.

[Tyrant]

X, your animated Snoopy makes me sea sick.

[Ylvali]

I have followed this project with great interest but I felt I couldn´t make such a commitment this summer since I´ll be traveling a lot.

I´d like to put my name up for a list of available subs. I guess subs will be needed quite a few times during this game, so making a list of willing ones could be useful. A way to get a sneak peek at such a huge game.

Good luck everyone who signed up, I won´t miss the next one of those.

[Darkwind]

Following in that vein, should I happen to die off (who'd think the newb would get owned in the first year? No-one, I dare say!), I'd love to be a sub.

[Hellkor]

You can sign me up for MA T'ien Chi http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[DrPraetorious]

Depending on when the game starts and on internet access in Europe, I might or might not need a sub for a week and a half near the start of the game.

Anyone who can't play the game but would like to crush some people as Niefel during the last two weeks of May?

[GWAR]

hry guys, i like the idea of setting up a mod where Lv 1 through 3 are normal level of research, level 4 through 6 are hard and 7 to 9 is very hard.

however faling this i think putting research on very hard and limiting level 9+ b lessed to one path at level 9+ one path at level 6+ and all others no higher than 5.

[Aethyr]

X,

I had indicated my interest when you initially posted your first notification, but by the time I noticed this thread it was too late...sigh.

Please put me down as an alternate if someone drops out or needs a sub. Thanks

[seryozha]

How many people has already sent their preferences? Any clue when subs would known if we are in?

[Xietor]

players have until may 7 to make their race preferences.

If players signed up, and send no preferences, then they will be removed for alternates at that time. But to make sure i did not miss anyone's selections by mistake, I will send those players a reminder on may 3rd or so.

Then, there may be players that do not like the race they end up with-and decide not to play, or fail to send in their pretenders on time. I am thinking May 14 deadline to get in pretenders.

So alternates have 2 events to get a spot before the game starts. Once the game starts, anyone that stales 2 turns in a row without notification will be replaced.

And then, those like Dr. P will miss the 1st 2 weeks of the game while he is on vacation-and will likely need a sub from turn 1.

[Zeldor]

You do not have to remind me, I know I need to send my picks http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Still not sure if I should try my luck with popular nations.

Oh, I am 99% sure I will need sub for 6 weeks starting from August. Assuming I survive long enough.

[Xietor]

Kingmaker-players who have sent in picks or said no preference have a ! next to their names

1. Xietor!
2. Dr. P!
3. KristopherO!
4. Baalz!
5. Indypendant!
6. ComTrav!
7. Herode!
8. Meglobob!
9. Zenzei!
10. Salamander8!
11. Yandav!
12. Cupido2!
13. Unoptimized!
14. Amhazair!
15. Twan!
16. Bernardo!
17. Falkor!
18. DonCorazon!
19. Zoshan!
20. Hoplosternum!
21. Slobby!
22. Dryaunda!
23. Digress!
24. Shigure!
25. Areaofeffect!
26. Hadrian_2!
27. Lolomo!
28. Chrispedersen!
29. Cicadian!
30. Lingchih!
31. Foodstamp!
32. Revolution!
33. Fal!
34. Admiralzhao
35. Coobe!
36. Otthegreat!
37. Dedas!
38. Tichy!
39. Tyrant!
40. James243!
41. Moderation
42. DaveCG!
43. Darkwind!
44. Cor2
45. Reay!
46. Drake49
47. Mazel!
48. Cidi!
49. Hellkor!
50. Ossa!
51. Cleveland!
52. Firewalker!
53. Jazzepi!
54. BigandScary!
55. Llamabeast
56. Atul!
57. Sum1lost!
58. Zeldor!
59. GWAR!
60. Mr. Sparkle

1st alternate- Janim
2nd alternate- seryozha
3rd alternate- baruk
4th alternate- Evilhomer/Folket team
5th alternate Gregstrom

[Xietor]

Zeldor,

If you goal is survival, almost all of the water races in the first game made it pretty far into the game.

On land with 54 nations, the key to survival may be more diplomacy than race pick. While Lanka is feared(and rightfully so) and Neifel as well, will the neighbors of these nations sit idly by and watch them eat other neighbors? Or will they say, after "X" race is dead, I will have to fight them alone. gulp. Maybe I better side against lanka so it is 2 v 1.

And so on......

[Zeldor]

Everything but not water race! I really do not like them. And I have terribly bad luck with them. Got water races in 2 games and died in both within around 10 turns. I prefer to have some fun on land and die then get 200 turns of boring game.

And yes, I am seriously thinking about one of underdogs. I never liked fighting Abysia so I may try to take them for a change http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Xietor]

My goal is the same as the players' goal with race selection-
I want to make as many players happy with their choice of race as possible.

So while this may be unorthodox, and Velusion did not give any hints, I am;

No one has picked any of the following races with a 1st choice in any era:

Agartha, Abysia, and Oceania.

[Dedas]

I'm a bit surprised. At least EA Agartha is considered a pretty good nation.

Oceania... well, clam spam seems to be out of the picture.

[atul]

Hm, LA Agartha at least at some time was considered very strong. With their too-good mages they still are. I was thinking of trying them, but since I already had too much experience with the worse Agartha decided not to.

[Salamander8]

I'm quite surprised that no one picked EA or LA Agartha as I found both solid and enjoyable. They are both in my top 10 of races here.

[Amhazair]

atul said:
Hm, LA Agartha at least at some time was considered very strong. With their too-good mages they still are.

I considered LA Agartha, but their strength comes from their awesome combat mages, while their military is of quite low quality. While I would rate them a strong nation in 'regular' games, I think the hard research will make them struggle in early game. (Not worse than several other nations that come to mind, mind you. Just enough not to rate them as a strong choise anymore. )

Anyway, just personal opinion of course

[Fal]

I will play any nation available.

[Baalz]

Amhazair said:

atul said:
Hm, LA Agartha at least at some time was considered very strong. With their too-good mages they still are.

I considered LA Agartha, but their strength comes from their awesome combat mages, while their military is of quite low quality. While I would rate them a strong nation in 'regular' games, I think the hard research will make them struggle in early game. (Not worse than several other nations that come to mind, mind you. Just enough not to rate them as a strong choise anymore. )

Anyway, just personal opinion of course



LA Argatha has a couple of really good things going for it, good combat mages are just one. They've also got good early summons, good later summons and good paths for forging (E/F/D could be argued to be the best forging paths). I actually did pick LA Argatha, but it's far enough down on my list that I think it's pretty unlikely I'll land it.

[Jazzepi]

Baalz said:

Amhazair said:

atul said:
Hm, LA Agartha at least at some time was considered very strong. With their too-good mages they still are.

I considered LA Agartha, but their strength comes from their awesome combat mages, while their military is of quite low quality. While I would rate them a strong nation in 'regular' games, I think the hard research will make them struggle in early game. (Not worse than several other nations that come to mind, mind you. Just enough not to rate them as a strong choise anymore. )

Anyway, just personal opinion of course



LA Argatha has a couple of really good things going for it, good combat mages are just one. They've also got good early summons, good later summons and good paths for forging (E/F/D could be argued to be the best forging paths). I actually did pick LA Argatha, but it's far enough down on my list that I think it's pretty unlikely I'll land it.



I would think astral is an absolute must in long term forging. I finally got to the endgame in Sloth, and I swear to god I put an astral skullcap and an amulet of antimagic on every, single, SC I made.

Not to mention shields of luck, faihtfuls, or lucky pendants.

Jazzepi

[Zeldor]

They have astral too. I have to think about them and maybe give someone better chance to roll MA Pythium or Arco http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Baalz]

Jazzepi said:
I would think astral is an absolute must in long term forging. I finally got to the endgame in Sloth, and I swear to god I put an astral skullcap and an amulet of antimagic on every, single, SC I made.

Not to mention shields of luck, faihtfuls, or lucky pendants.

Jazzepi



You're right, of course, but I was thinking more along the lines of "useful *and* hard to get without national mages". Amulet of MR are pretty easy to line up, but Flambeaus, Dwarven Hammers and Skull Mentors...not so much. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Xietor]

Guys, do not send me changed picks. It is very time consuming to compile the initial picks.

My purpose was not to get anyone to change picks, but to get new people that have not chosen yet to consider races no one else took. if 5 players switch to la agartha, that defeats the purpose.

So with regret, you are "stuck" with your picks.

*Though if you did not select any race, and said "i will play anyone" as several did, you can change your mind and do picks up until May 7, or until everyone has their picks in.

[Amhazair]

Baalz said:

Amhazair said:

atul said:
Hm, LA Agartha at least at some time was considered very strong. With their too-good mages they still are.

I considered LA Agartha, but their strength comes from their awesome combat mages, while their military is of quite low quality. While I would rate them a strong nation in 'regular' games, I think the hard research will make them struggle in early game. (Not worse than several other nations that come to mind, mind you. Just enough not to rate them as a strong choise anymore. )

Anyway, just personal opinion of course



LA Argatha has a couple of really good things going for it, good combat mages are just one. They've also got good early summons, good later summons and good paths for forging (E/F/D could be argued to be the best forging paths). I actually did pick LA Argatha, but it's far enough down on my list that I think it's pretty unlikely I'll land it.

Sure, I totally agree with you here, but my point remains, all of that takes a bit of research to get going. Again, I don't mean to dis them, but I feel they suffer more than most nations from a slower research rate.

[Xietor]

You waste valuable death gems on skull mentors Baalz? I can almost always find a better use for my d gems than a skill mentor.

[Jazzepi]

Baalz is talking about the +9 research skulls.

Jazzepi

[Xietor]

yeah, i know what he is talking about.

I still do not make them. If I am playing a horrible research race and take drain, i will trade for them. But if I play a race with d mages, i prefer to spend my d gems on summons/combat spells.

[Jazzepi]

Xietor said:
yeah, i know what he is talking about.

I still do not make them. If I am playing a horrible research race and take drain, i will trade for them. But if I play a race with d mages, i prefer to spend my d gems on summons/combat spells.



They're quite amazing with hammers. I forge them all the time. Especially if you had a race with drain, gives you a huge boost after you reach construction 4.

Jazzepi

[Baalz]

Access to skull mentors + hammers (+ lightless lanterns) = free design points as I'll take drain almost every time.

[Jazzepi]

Baalz said:
Access to skull mentors + hammers (+ lightless lanterns) = free design points as I'll take drain almost every time.



I agree. Especially if you use mentors to accelerate yourself into the lanterns. It's difficult to find a use for fire gems beyond lanterns, charcoal shields, flames from afar, elemental armor, and firebrand.

Jazzepi

[Baalz]

Xietor said:
yeah, i know what he is talking about.

I still do not make them. If I am playing a horrible research race and take drain, i will trade for them. But if I play a race with d mages, i prefer to spend my d gems on summons/combat spells.



Look at it this way X, for 7d + 3f I've just "summoned" an extra two high end mages. One mage is now doing the research of 3 so I can send 2 out marauding while my research stays the same. What can you summon and equip for 10 gems that's more effective than 2 high end mages?

[thejeff]

Well, you're not usually replacing high end mages with Skull Mentors, because you don't usually summon high end mages just to do research. You're replacing (or just adding to) a few gold purchased cheap researchers.

[Xietor]

I realize i am in the minority on the issue. I liberally use the lightless lanterns. But 12 d gems gives me a banelord.

Would I trade a banelord, who can, with constr 6 gear, kill anything in the game(potentially), for 10 research points?

If you look at the game we are playing against each other now Baalz, I was a research leader most of the way-or close enough as it made no difference, and I did not forge 1 research booster the entire game.

But favoring your view, Ermor, in the same game, took 2 drain and with the use of skulls was able to stay competitive in research. But he also had to pay for a double 9 bless.

But not every race gets castle bought troops as deadly as MA Ermor.

[thejeff]

But that's a banelord with constr 6 gear. How many gems worth of gear to make use of him? That's what you need to compare. Not just the chassis.

And the earlier the investment in research items, the better it is. You can have Skull Mentors long before Banelords and Constr 6 gear for them. Spending some gems on boosting research may get you those geared up Banelords faster than saving the gems would.

[Ironhawk]

Baalz said:
Access to skull mentors + hammers (+ lightless lanterns) = free design points as I'll take drain almost every time.



Wow you take Drain?? I'm shocked. I dont think I've ever taken it.

[Baalz]

Yep, obviously this is a great oversimplification, but if you do accept my previous suggestion that 10 gems = 2 extra combat casters (which makes sense if your mages are constrained by your number of castles and you have a research target) then an outfitted banelord is more like 6 extra casters. Obviously everything has its use, but 6 banefire/enslave mind/gift of heaven/thunderstrike spamming mages can most certainly trump a decked out banelord in lots of situations.

[GWAR]

what kind of gear would u usualy put on a banelord to make him effective?

[Jazzepi]

Baalz said:
Yep, obviously this is a great oversimplification, but if you do accept my previous suggestion that 10 gems = 2 extra combat casters (which makes sense if your mages are constrained by your number of castles and you have a research target) then an outfitted banelord is more like 6 extra casters. Obviously everything has its use, but 6 banefire/enslave mind/gift of heaven/thunderstrike spamming mages can most certainly trump a decked out banelord in lots of situations.



I don't even like banelords that much as thugs.

Jazzepi

[Zeldor]

I really fear that nations that need some magic to work will be screwed here, not much space, difficult research, no CBM... probably astral powerhouses and bless nations are the only that can really be competetive. I really think that Mind Hunt, Master Enslave, Magic Duel should be simply removed from the game, that would make game more interesting.

[Twan]

Mind Hunt is not that better than Seeking Arrow (which can't be resisted and kill most humans commanders), or Earth Attack and national assassination spells. In a large game trading for some antimagic amulets in not that hard.

Magic Duel is a spell very rarely used, it's just a problem if you have an astral 1-2 pretender and want to use it on the battlefield against an astral nation (not a good idea).

Master Enslave come late with slow research, remaining players should have a way to cast antimagic, but I agree in some situations (round one casting in defense, when the ennemy can't protect his army) it's one the most overpowered spell (like any instant spell not counterable in round one).

I'd like a game mechanic to be created, making impossible to use any instant battlewide offensive spells in round one (not only Master Enslave but also Rain of Stones, Earthquakes, Bone Grinding, Arcane Domination, Undead Mastery, Unraveling) so the attacker has one round to cast army buffs ; then endgame battles can't be resumed by "defender wins if he has mages and gems". But as this mechanic isn't present, and such a rule is totally unenforcable, I think it's better to play with them than to remove all the spells in this category (and see no reason to remove only master enslave, the problem is not a particular spell).

[Xietor]

We need to refocus the thread if possible on the game, though I am as guilty as anyone. Eight more people need to send in race selections, and then I can do the race division.

The Game will not start before May, 15 in any event. But if people know their races earlier, it will give them more time to customize their pretender.

1. Zenzei
2. Mr. Sparkle
3. Llamabeast
4. Drake49
5. Mazel
6. Cor2
7. Admiralzhao
8. Moderation

[Zeldor]

I will send in my final list with alternatives tomorrow.

[Aezeal]

If you let me in I'll send my selection right away.. Llama can make a new game of his own for example http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Zenzei]

I too will send my list by tomorrow. Selecting a nation for this game really requires some thinking. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[llamabeast]

I will have to get thinking!

[Zeldor]

Anyone interested in creating Weak Nations Confederation [WNC]? We could use our crappy troops, research-dependant mages to fight off all sacreds, elephants, hydras...

[Xietor]

MA Oceania, EA Oceania, EA Atlantis, and MA Atlantis have not been picked. The game WILL have 6 water nations. These races all admittedly are crap, especially since clams are 4w2n to make. And the water, while abundant, is not one big ocean.

Since I hate to assign someone to play a water race, whoever 1st messages me will be awarded one of these safe(crosses fingers behind back) races to play!

So what if your sacred troops are slow and have an encumbrance from hell? Who cares if your mages lose half their magic on dry land? Think of the challenge!

In the 1st Big Game I fought MA Oceania-and I will say this: At least their Sirens are annoying to land races. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

EA Atlantis to Dedas!

[IndyPendant]

Err...Xietor, are you talking about as first picks? Because I had EA Atlantis as my second pick. I hope, if you are awarding that nation flat-out to Dedas, you will bump all my other picks up by one if I don't get my main one... ; ) (So my #3 becomes #2, etc.)

[Xietor]

I will. But you may get your 1st pick Indy. And many of these races are not on anyone's list. And many have said (no water nations). So I want to get them assigned.

FYI: 1 person has ma oceania as a 10th pick, no one has ea oceania at all, and 1 person has ma atlantis as a 7th pick.
That is my concern. Some races can be left out of the game, but not the water races. I think most players will get a race before their 7th and 10th picks. And many will get their 1st pick.

One water race will have a spot in the western body of water, 2 in the northern body of water, and 3 in the largest body of water.

[Baalz]

Oh I don't care, I'll take anything you need to facilitate the game, though I'd prefer not MA Atlantis as I've just had them through 2 fairly big end games and I'm a bit burnt out there. I'll take either Oceana or EA Atlantis if you want...

[IndyPendant]

Perfect thanks, Xietor. That's all I ask. ; )

I wish I hadn't lost my second pick--but as you say, I may get my first, and well, you're the one doing the work. If it helps you along, fair enough!

[Xietor]

Baalz has claimed MA Oceania.

[Hoplosternum]

Xietor said:

FYI: 1 person has ma oceania as a 10th pick,




Phew, Baalz has taken it. I'm saved http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Xietor]

Llamabeast
Drake49
Cor2
Moderation

Updated list players that need to select a race-May 7, is deadline.

[Drake49]

Mind Hunt is not that better than Seeking Arrow (which can't be resisted and kill most humans commanders), or Earth Attack and national assassination spells. In a large game trading for some antimagic amulets in not that hard.

Magic Duel is a spell very rarely used, it's just a problem if you have an astral 1-2 pretender and want to use it on the battlefield against an astral nation (not a good idea).

Master Enslave come late with slow research, remaining players should have a way to cast antimagic, but I agree in some situations (round one casting in defense, when the ennemy can't protect his army) it's one the most overpowered spell (like any instant spell not counterable in round one).

I'd like a game mechanic to be created, making impossible to use any instant battlewide offensive spells in round one (not only Master Enslave but also Rain of Stones, Earthquakes, Bone Grinding, Arcane Domination, Undead Mastery, Unraveling) so the attacker has one round to cast army buffs ; then endgame battles can't be resumed by "defender wins if he has mages and gems". But as this mechanic isn't present, and such a rule is totally unenforcable, I think it's better to play with them than to remove all the spells in this category (and see no reason to remove only master enslave, the problem is not a particular spell).



Mind Hunt is virtually harmless compared to abominations like Manifestation. The Ashen Angel is almost an SC, and is certainly a thug capable of destroying small armies all by itself.

Magic Duel 'isn't a problem' because most people don't even bother trying to use Astral Mages against a stronger Astral Nation. And that is a big deal.

Rain of Stones is only effective against unarmoured critters. If you can't put a Hide Shield/Black Steel Whatever Shield/Shroud of the Battle Saint(getting a Bless)/Use a mage that can survive then I don't really have any sympathy.

Earthquake kills fatigued mages.... with 0 fatigue it isn't going to do that good a job.

If someone is casting Master Enslave they are doing one of two things. They have a large number of mages in a communion, or they have alot of equipment on a mage. Given that Manifestation can kill ANYTHING, and Flames from the Sky can slaughter armies, I assume this 'killer army' is stationary, hidden behind expensive domes, and doing nothing at all. That makes it a "not killer" army.

But it's blocking my route! Then use Astral Travel, Farie Trod, or Stygian Paths(+Stealth Troops).

[AdmiralZhao]

I'll pick EA Oceania.

[moderation]

I'm still working on my nation list. Does everyone get an even chance for popular nations on May 7th?

[MrSparkle]

If you still need a water nation for the game I will try whichever one is left unless someone else wants it as a top pick.

[moderation]

Also, where can I download the Mega-age mod and what kind of changes does it make? Is it anything like the CB mod or is it more like the vanilla game with all nations available at the same time?

[Xietor]

The mods are not done yet-and cannot be until the new nations come out this weekend. Banners have to made for them.

Getting the mods is something for later. Not out yet, and I will likely post the map file and mods at the same time. I do not even have the map file from dr. p yet, and i have to go over it with a fine tooth comb after i get it.

Race selection is spelled out in detail in the 1st post. But in short, it is a lottery. But if you have a race as your 1, you get it over everyone else that does not have it listed as their 1. Read race selection for the finer points.

[AdmiralZhao]

Hmm, on second thought, if Baalz is going to be in the oceans I don't think I want to be. I'll send the actual picks tonight. Mr Sparkle-san, you can have EA Oceania if you wish.

[DrPraetorious]

Master Enslave is a great spell. It should be, it's level 9.

But it's entirely counterable. Mindless units, high MR units, all of those work.

The only nation that really *devastates* people with master enslave is R'lyeh. Star Spawn are tough enough that they can form a master enslave communion is largely ignore overland spells, not to mention rain of stones, earth quake, etc.

But R'lyeh has other vulnerabilities that you then need to exploit (or you need to gang up on them extremely hard.)

[Xietor]

Mr Sparkle, I have no idea on your experience level, so i will give you ma atlantis. Baalz has a guide for playing that race, and I would recommend you read it if you are new to the water or atlantis.

Sounds like AdmiralZhao wants ea oceania-and i would not want to deprive him!

[Ballbarian]

Baalz, that is a testament to your skill as a fine dominions player. When Baalz enters the ocean it is like the proverbial turd in the swimming pool. Everyone climbs over each other trying to get out. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Xietor]

two words: thetis blessing. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif He knows what i am talking about.

[Xietor]

4 left for race selections!

They have almost a week though. So still no rush.

[Lingchih]

Yeah, Baalz in the ocean (as soothing as that might sound), is a pretty tough fight. I have lost to him there (MA - Me R'lyeh, him Oceania) in another game. He goes Baalz to the wall underwater.

[Herode]

Xietor, if you lack water nations, you can fishify me if it helps you, regardless of my selection. After all, I never tried one of them, may be a good occasion to learn

[IndyPendant]

*sigh* Short version: count me out of this game, sorry. Xietor, please bump up your first alternate and remove my picks from your race selection.

Long(ish) explanation: I am very interested in playing this game. But it's been bothering me for a bit now, and I have to be honest with myself in that I just won't have time for this massive a game. I have also really come to hate Dom3's endgame--which (assuming I would last that long) will be too much of this game for my tastes.

If I could play the early game and then walk away, I would probably have a total blast. But it's better--and more fair!--for others if I hand my slot over to someone that truly wants it. That way they can create their own Pretender and play their own game all the way through, instead of just taking over from me and being forced to live with my choices when I (most likely) burn out. Whoever takes my place still has five days to create a list of races; that should be plenty of time.

Best of luck everyone, and have fun! I'll be keeping an eye on this game. ; )

[Xietor]

np Indy. Better to realize it now.

Janim is the 1st alternate. So he is in the game now.

[Xietor]

Kingmaker

1. Xietor
2. Dr. P
3. KristopherO
4. Baalz
5. Janim
6. ComTrav
7. Herode
8. Meglobob
9. Zenzei
10.Salamander8
11.Yandav
12. Cupido2
13. Unoptimized
14. Amhazair
15. Twan
16. Bernardo
17. Falkor
18. DonCorazon
19. Zoshan
20. Hoplosternum
21. Slobby
22. Dryaunda
23. Digress
24. Shigure
25. Areaofeffect
26. Hadrian
27. Lolomo
28. Chrispedersen
29. Cicadian
30. Lingchih
31. Foodstamp
32. Revolution
33. Fal
34. Admiralzhao
35. Coobe
36. Otthegreat
37. Dedas
38. Tichy
39. Tyrant
40.James243
41. Moderation
42. DaveCG
43. Darkwind
44. Cor2
45. Reay
46. Drake49
47. Mazel
48. Cidi
49. Hellkor
50. Ossa
51. Cleveland
52. Firewalker
53. Jazzepi
54. BigandScary
55. Llamabeast
56. Atul
57. Sum1lost
58. Zeldor
59. GWAR
60. Mr. Sparkle

1st alternate- seryozha
2nd alternate- baruk
3rd alternate- Evilhomer/Folket team
4th alternate- Gregstrom
5th alternate Agema

[Darkwind]

If you still need a water nation after all these guys have decided to sign up, you can give me one. Like the others, I don't particularly care which one; I haven't played any of them, so I'll probably lose all the same with whichever one you give me.

[Xietor]

There is only one water race left-EA Oceania. Thanks for all of the offers to take a water race, but you may want to look at ea oceania before making the offer. It seems like this race would have a hard time if it left the water.

But I have never played a water race, so I may be overlooking the obvious.

[Amhazair]

Xietor said:
...you may want to look at ea oceania before making the offer. It seems like this race would have a hard time if it left the water.

But I have never played a water race, so I may be overlooking the obvious.

You are not. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif
They're massively good in the water though.

[Baalz]

Lordy, no pressure or anything. I'll probably be the first one eliminated...

[Digress]

It must be nice to start a game with a target painted on your forehead (and back) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Xietor]

I have no idea who will play ea oceania yet, but i i am leaning towards giving their capital an assigned spot in the large body of water. If they ended up in the small body of water, that may be too big an obstacle for anyone to overcome.

Thoughts?

[Salamander8]

EA Oceania is a beast underwater, but they also share many of the same issues that EA R'Lyeh has on land. All the other water nations have enough landward versatility to handle small bodies of water to start in, but these 2 nations both need more water early to compete well so I would concur with your assessment Xietor, but add that EA R'Lyeh needs similiar consideration.

[Meglobob]

Ea Oceania is really, really strong underwater, if whomever gets them takes a decent bless on there sacred knights they could easily destroy any other water race who is there neighbour early in the game. Thus control a large body of water to themselves.

However, the problems then start, they suck big time on land. They lose mage levels and there best mage needs a amulet of the fish to go on land, losing a misc slot.

There main way around this is via gem superioity via clamming but clams have been severly nerfed, so there late game sucks.

I have already played Ea Oceania in MP so have no wish to play them again. I'm keeping my fingers crossed I get my 1st pick.

[Amhazair]

Yeah, I agree with the above posters.

If EA Oceania ends up in the small lake by themselves they will have a very, very difficult time. I won't object to guaranteeing them a spot in one of the bigger seas, as they really need a minimum of critical mass to get out of the water. All those people who agreed to help you out by taking a water nation might have other ideas though.

[Xietor]

no one will get ea oceania against their will.

What may happen is i do the 1st picks resolution on race selection, and post who got what. Then maybe someone that did not get their 1st pick may volunteer for them.

[kasnavada]

EA Oceania is a beast underwater, but they also share many of the same issues that EA R'Lyeh has on land. All the other water nations have enough landward versatility to handle small bodies of water to start in, but these 2 nations both need more water early to compete well so I would concur with your assessment Xietor, but add that EA R'Lyeh needs similiar consideration.



Another idea would be to give them an island surrounded by the seas they start in, to give them a opportunity to get on land more easily.

Note : I'm not playing but I thought it could be a good idea. I look forward to seeing what this game becomes http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Salamander8]

Meglobob said:
...their best mage needs a amulet of the fish to go on land, losing a misc slot.



I have to second everything Meglobob says, but this last part I snipped because it applies strongly to EA R'Lyeh as well. Aboleths and Mind Lords are excellent mages, but they require that amulet of the fish to go on land. And they only have 2 misc slots to boot.

[Baalz]

Whewie, I have to say after playing around with MA Oceana I think they're even worse off than EA Oceana & R'yleh at getting out of the water. At least with those two once you do get amulets of the fish you've got some fairly strong thugs/mages, with MA Oceana all you've got is hideously expensive crippled pans, with no stealth, no meanads, water instead of earth magic (bleh)... *and* they lose a huge chunk of their magic and most diversity going onto land. At 350 gold for essentially a 2w 2n non-thugable mage I can't see these guys being remotely cost effective for anything on the land. Even your second tier mages lose water magic leaving the water...no falling frost out of any of your mages. Their amphibious troops are decent enough, but they're not going to stand up to an uber bless and you're not going to be getting much magic support even when your research kicks in. No death, astral, or blood makes your even longer term prospects pretty bleak to, and if with 30 gem clams I can't see any investment in them paying off in time to keep you alive....Bleh, I've picked up an uphill fight.

[Dedas]

Indeed. But I always thought oceania could do pretty good on land with water summons lake naiads.

[Jazzepi]

Baalz said:
Whewie, I have to say after playing around with MA Oceana I think they're even worse off than EA Oceana & R'yleh at getting out of the water. At least with those two once you do get amulets of the fish you've got some fairly strong thugs/mages, with MA Oceana all you've got is hideously expensive crippled pans, with no stealth, no meanads, water instead of earth magic (bleh)... *and* they lose a huge chunk of their magic and most diversity going onto land. At 350 gold for essentially a 2w 2n non-thugable mage I can't see these guys being remotely cost effective for anything on the land. Even your second tier mages lose water magic leaving the water...no falling frost out of any of your mages. Their amphibious troops are decent enough, but they're not going to stand up to an uber bless and you're not going to be getting much magic support even when your research kicks in. No death, astral, or blood makes your even longer term prospects pretty bleak to, and if with 30 gem clams I can't see any investment in them paying off in time to keep you alive....Bleh, I've picked up an uphill fight.



I've never really understood the uber punishment that water races take to their mages. Water is probably one of the worst combat magics. You're stuck with quickness, quickening, and falling frost http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif Cold bolt is highly awful compared to some of the other bolt spells.

Jazzepi

[Dedas]

But spamming fatigue spells is pretty effective though. I've taken out one or two SC's that way, even with reinvigoration.

[Salamander8]

I have no experience playing MA Oceania Baalz, so you could be right on. In my SP games however, I've seen them hit land with some hefty mermidon forces that were more effective than I would have thought.

Edit: I also came from Dom2 playing R'Lyeh a lot, and playing more MA R'Lyeh than any other nation in Dom3 so going from MA to EA R'Lyeh can be a rude awakening as you lose so much amphibious versatility. Having aquatic only mind blasters was quite a shock the first time I tried my hand at EA R'Lyeh. It totally altered my landward playstyle I used with MA R'Lyeh.

[Xietor]

I think the ma oceania troops are quite effective early on on land. their troops are the equal of pangaea, especially with a good bless. White centaurs have 9 prot, the oceania knights have like 18!

I do not think the Oceania mages should lose magic paths on land. maybe gain an air and lose 1 water. a trade.

Maybe I will have to start EA Oceania with an epic hero!(j/k). If I get stuck with Man i will take Beowulf as an equalizer. Baalz loves Beowulf.

[Tichy]

I agree that EA R'lyeh needs a large water space to start in. I played EA R'lyeh in Blessing...spent the entire early game negotiating a land bridge out of my 3-province lake by pretending to be scarier than I was and then proceeding to get crushed in the water by the 2-bless knights Oceania had been pumping out while I was trying to get a fort built somewhere larger than a 3-province lake.

!fun

[Xietor]

A dollar to a doughnut baalz has a double blessed knight with ma Oceania.

[Amhazair]

I'd rather bet you a croissant for an Euro, if you don't mind. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[llamabeast]

I quite like muffins.

[Baalz]

Xietor said:
A dollar to a doughnut baalz has a double blessed knight with ma Oceania.



Oh, I'm not too worried about the first part of the game (underwater), I'm just struggling to figure out what I'm gonna do when we get to the point that you can't win any real fights without decent mage support and all my mages are crippled on land....this seems a far worse handicap than needing an amulet of the fish. Ah well, I've still got some time to find my inspiration...

[Xietor]

"I'm just struggling to figure out what I'm gonna do when we get to the point that you can't win any real fights...."

At that point you send me gems and become my vassal!

In all seriousness, MA Oceania has great scouts. Fly and recuperation. I would try to find a neutral province early with mages, take it, and build a castle.

Obviously you have to balance that with not getting smacked in the water.

[James243]

There are a lot of posts here and I might have missed some important ones... Have races been assigned?