Qwerty - MA team game. Finished

[klagrok]

What is really weird is it took at least one of them fine :) It first happened when I received the corrupt file email from llama. Last time that happened I just made a new folder and everything worked fine. As Im off to Utah in 24 hrs, hope these turns will go through. Will have to stale both nations for a turn at least. Hoping to get there late Sunday or early Monday. Pretty sure the cable peeps will be MIA on Labor Day :)

[ano]

Did I understand you right that you'll be able to submit your next turn late Sunday or Early Monday? Do you want the game be paused until then?
And when will Ossa come back?

[Meglobob]

Can I have a 12 hr ext to this turn? Busy working week.

[ano]

Yes, sure.

[klagrok]

HAvent heard from Ossa so not sure if he is out....turns submitted. Just need until next Tuesday for the next turn to end....hopefully will get into Salt Lake Sunday or early Monday.....

[ano]

So if we anyway have to wait until Monday\Tuesday I'd suggest to split this extra time between two turns and prolongate the current turn a bit more.

[klagrok]

Sounds like a good plan to me :)

[WraithLord]

Wake up :hammer: call to all the sleepers, lest you wanna wake up soon and find out you've lost the game for lack of action :)

[ano]

Does anyone sleep?;)

[WraithLord]

:lol

TC certainly isn't. Of the rest some are asleep while their beds are burning ;)

[ano]

TC certainly isn't. Of the rest some are asleep while their beds are burning
Who are they?
*just curious
Nobody seems to stale.

[WraithLord]

Ha, they are the ones that let you guys take over the world and do naught in respect.

And yes, you're doing a fine job of clearing the opposition and if you cont. to the end you will have fully earned the victory.

[ano]

It's a bit strange to hear this about the nation of T'ien Ch'i who is being pressed by many people at once since the early game. Remember that we, as well as our Agarthan allies, attacked no one while you keep ganging on us.

[Kuritza]

When I saw Agartha and Tien Chi in one team, my very first thought was 'gotta gank them or they will become unstoppable'. Its not 'LA Rlyeh and LA Ermor', but also bad enough, especially compared to other teams.
So if anything, there was not enough ganking - and now we are nearing the inevitable end.

[WraithLord]

It's a bit strange to hear this about the nation of T'ien Ch'i who is being pressed by many people at once since the early game. Remember that we, as well as our Agarthan allies, attacked no one while you keep ganging on us.

Here and there, there were nations that worked together against you. That is correct. However a concentrated effort wasn't done yet. Some nations who have attacked you in the past have reached a truce or else just stopped. Your ability to withstand this is of course admirable, but you have yet to face a concentrated effort by all the nations.

I estimate that the turning point in which even such an effort would be futile is close. In short IMHO you're very close to victory, just hang on a few more turns.

[ano]

When I saw Agartha and Tien Chi in one team, my very first thought was 'gotta gank them or they will become unstoppable'. Its not 'LA Rlyeh and LA Ermor', but also bad enough, especially compared to other teams.
I just wonder why you didn't say this before the teams were assigned to players and even after that? Why are you saying it now? And also I'm interested if you would say the same now if we we're playing, for example, as Man\C'tis or Pythium\Ulm...

Don't bother yourself with answers, I already know them:).

[Kuritza]

You knew how I feel about Caelum/Bandar Log team even before you assigned it to us, right? Did it change anything? I think not.
I can also copy-paste my words about Agartha/Tien Chi from my ICQ logs if you wish, and even translate them into English. Will it change anything?
Would telling you how I felt about Agartha/Tien Chi, Marignon/Machaka, Bandar Log/Caelum or Man/Ctis change anything? I think not.
I know your position, 'there are no weak and strong nations, skill is everything'.
Kek.

And if you really want to know my opinion, CTis/Man setup is weakish and Pythium/Ulm is quite interesting (actually, I was thinking of that before I knew you are going to pre-roll everything), but not as strong as Agartha/Tien Chi.

[Meglobob]

Well Atlantis has been well and truely battered! There are so many TC + Agarthian SC's around now that its only a matter of time before they are victorious.

[ano]

You knew how I feel about Caelum/Bandar Log team even before you assigned it to us, right? Did it change anything? I think not.
I can also copy-paste my words about Agartha/Tien Chi from my ICQ logs if you wish, and even translate them into English. Will it change anything?
Would telling you how I felt about Agartha/Tien Chi, Marignon/Machaka, Bandar Log/Caelum or Man/Ctis change anything? I think not.
Why not? Nation pairs were open to discussion and I made some changes to them when I saw some arguments in the thread. I don't remember you telling that Agartha/TC are strong at least before(important) team assignment. I may be wrong but I doubt I am.

I know your position, 'there are no weak and strong nations, skill is everything'.
Kek.
Not exactly. There are weak and strong nations but skill usually decides the most.

And if you really want to know my opinion, CTis/Man setup is weakish and Pythium/Ulm is quite interesting (actually, I was thinking of that before I knew you are going to pre-roll everything), but not as strong as Agartha/Tien Chi.
I keep thinking that both MA Agartha and TC are at best average nations and would never play any of them if I had an option.

[Kuritza]

Why not? Nation pairs were open to discussion and I made some changes to them when I saw some arguments in the thread. I don't remember you telling that Agartha/TC are strong at least before(important) team assignment. I may be wrong but I doubt I am.
I didnt say anything at all because I missed the assignments phase. But you can check our community forum, where I mentioned Agartha as one of the potential MA superpowers, having seen it in several games. Tien Chi is also very solid, even you will have to admit it, but its these nations combined that makes such team setup that strong. They have everything, and more.

I keep thinking that both MA Agartha and TC are at best average nations and would never play any of them if I had an option.
Of course you keep thinking that its skill made you shine so brightly - everyone would. :)

[ano]

It seems like I'll have to pause the game for something like 12h. Sorry, but I'm feeling to sick to complete my turn now..

[Baalz]

Well Atlantis has been well and truely battered! There are so many TC + Agarthian SC's around now that its only a matter of time before they are victorious.

Indeed, and they're spread around at least 4 nations on the offense, plus the seraphs, etc. I can see still in their own lands. I've got half a dozen raiding me, plus both pretenders right on my border, my bloodhunters are being mindhunted and earth attacked brutally every turn, and the few artifacts I manage to kill pop back up the turn after....I'll keep fighting the good fight as long as anybody else does, but the writing is on the wall.

[ano]

Indeed, and they're spread around at least 4 nations on the offense, plus the seraphs, etc. I can see still in their own lands
We don't have any seraphs. You're mistaken.
I see tartarians in caelian capital and a new forge master instead...

[WraithLord]

ano, I don't think you need to go to all that effort to underestimate your position. Its unlikely your worst nightmare will come true - that all the nations will fight against you.

Believe me, I tried to make that happen but some things are not meant to be :)

I've been warring you ever since I understood you must be opposed or else you're gonna win, and like Baalz, I'll keep doing so to the bitter end (now closer than ever).

So, I suppose you can lighten up and savor the taste of your coming victory :D

[Meglobob]

They do have seraphs, but they are harab seraphs (the recruitable death mages I think) but they do not need seraphs, the half a dozen astral golems, elemental royalty, banelords, marble oracles, djinn, umbrals and there 2 gods are more than enough to do us all in.

I think Agartha/Tien Chi fully deserve there win when they get it. They have been very aggressive, fought most of the other teams in the game and no one has been able to stop them. I also think Tien Chi/Agartha combo was not overpowered, Ma Agartha is weak early on and could have been stopped if jumped on early. Late game Tien Chi/Agartha is a monster. Credit where credit is due, when they win they fully deserve it.

I will fight to the end (or near end), in the hope one of my allies can perform a miracle!

[WraithLord]

I 2nd Meglobob. That credit is due to TC/Agratha team and that hope for a miracle still exists, for me at least.

[ano]

Baalz
I've got half a dozen raiding me, plus both pretenders right on my border
Btw, just looked at my turn.. Nice to hear about my pretender at your border after you moved that border to my castle. Utmost diplomacy)))

[ano]

Same *bad word here* again in the same province (maybe this matters?). No more rehosts or even thoughts of it obviously but still. Can anyone explain why the hell golem does cast returning in one situation and doesn't in another?? Let it be as it is but I want it to be at least more predictable!

[Baalz]

Well, if it's any consolation, I'm running into the same crap with a B2 mage refusing to use an extra blood slave to cast a B3 spell (rush of strength), which would make quite a difference against all those SCs. :( Imps don't work.

[ano]

Not a consolation really. This mechanics just should be more clear. Need to investigate debug logs in both cases (yours and mine) tomorrow, however I doubt they'll tell something useful.

[Meglobob]

Yea, I killed a golem! About time I got one. I notice you never complain when you win the magic duels ano.

Anyway, no matter, it was probably your weakest golem anyway with both its eyes already poked out.

Expecting to be bashed again next turn by loads of SC's for my trouble.

[ano]

Yea, I killed a golem! About time I got one. I notice you never complain when you win the magic duels ano.
It was the first time when returning was scripted and didn't work (after rehost). When you lost your mage to Djinn returning was not scripted so don't accuse me please...
I don't complain at all, I just hate bugs influencing major game situations and ruining plans.

[WraithLord]

ano, can you please postpone hosting by 24h?

Oh and BTW, just feeling the water, how do ppl feel WRT to 84h or 96h schedule, not necessarily now, maybe at turn 60 or something.

[ano]

ano, can you please postpone hosting by 24h?
No problem
Oh and BTW, just feeling the water, how do ppl feel WRT to 84h or 96h schedule, not necessarily now, maybe at turn 60 or something.
I second this, btw. 96h seems a bit much though.

[WraithLord]

84h then, those additional 12h can make a difference.

[WraithLord]

No one else spoke, so, are we switching to 84h?

[ano]

I already did it. Sorry for not mentioning.

[WraithLord]

Great. Thanks ano!

[ano]

I'm very sorry but I have extremely little time at the moment and would like to ask for another 24h pause. I think I just can't let my turn be staled or processed without thought at this stage of the game.
Sorry for inconvenience)

[Meglobob]

Baalz has been evacuated because of hurricane Ike, which is why he has not been able to do is turn.

Can we give him more time? Not sure how much he will need thou.

[Baalz]

Thanks, but I borrowed a computer and got my turn in, should be back home before the next turn is due.

[ano]

Ok, if you are late with the next turn, we will wait.

[ano]

I think that taking on account problems with llamaserver and the hurricane we will pause the game for something about two days. I hope that we'll return to normal schedule once all these troubles are over.
Any opinions?

[WraithLord]

Good suggestion.

[Meglobob]

Yea, Llama is due back on the 20th, so I suspect the server to be sorted out then, apparently hurricane Ike may be the reason why Llamaserver is not working. So a delay would be cool.

[Meglobob]

Dryops is dead, yea!:) He was a gift of reasoned umbral, sadly I think he passed on the Ageis shield to someone else but he was wearing Monolith Armour when he died.

I would check out the availability of both unique items and try to forge them this turn before Agartha reforges them again!

Now, lets try to kill a king of elemental fire...:D

P.S.

I wish the cavalry would hurry up and arrive. Also what happened to ultra secret, hush hush, say no more, say no more, top sercet Plan A?!?

[ano]

Now, lets try to kill a king of elemental fire...
Good luck)

IIRC, Dryops had a MR of 24 so you were extremely lucky to have killed him because I hardly imagine how you can get a penetration bonus higher than +5.

[WraithLord]

Hey, I got my turns 19 times over. Was I the only one?

[Meglobob]

Hey, I got my turns 19 times over. Was I the only one?

Lucky you, I got 36 emails!

[ano]

Look at this thread (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?p=640166#post640166)

[ano]

I need to discuss some things with my teammate who went fishing before the new turn occurs so if he doesn't return in time, I'd like to pause the game for a couple of hours or so.

[WraithLord]

ano, Can you please add 48h for this turn?- Its holiday time in Israel, "Rosh Hashana" actually (like Christmas, only this one came first :D ) and I will be out of home most of this week.

TIA.

[ano]

Done!

[ano]

Proclamation from T'ien Ch'i - Agartha.
After facing terrific unluck this turn and after receiving notification that in two turns six more nations will attack us we decided to stop playing. In fact, we are extremely exhausted by the last 45 turns of never-ending fight. If we were victorious at some moments it was because we worked really hard on our turns and really co-operated with each other. I can speak for myself, I devoted about 3 hours to each turn and even more to discussions and I'm really tired, we both are tired of this endless fight and we don't want all this to last (even more with game progress) for another 50 turns.
I'm sad. We really counted on victory here but games with open graphs are evil and I probably will never play one again. Being (or seeming) strong means that you will always be ganged upon by a horde of smaller nations.

Enough words. Goodbye and good luck.

p.s. To those of you who still think that TC and Agartha are uber nations, I will once again say that in my opinion they both are below average in MA.
p.p.s. Please, decide who will be the game admin and contact me)

[Kuritza]

P.S.
Agartha is strong, but not uber. Tien Chi is strong, but not uber. Together they are uber because they cover each other's weaknesses like nobody else.
Tien Chi mages crafting almost all worthy items at con4, easy access to Well and then Forge, immortal extra-fat pretender, later extremly resilient thugs.
Yeah, you played your cards well and got lucky (not to belittle your achievement, luck is necessary in Dominions). But your cards were still way stronger than other team's in my opinion.

As for open graphs - yes, it makes looking weak while you are clear winner harder. :)

[WraithLord]

Proclamation from T'ien Ch'i - Agartha.
After facing terrific unluck this turn and after receiving notification that in two turns six more nations will attack us we decided to stop playing. In fact, we are extremely exhausted by the last 45 turns of never-ending fight. If we were victorious at some moments it was because we worked really hard on our turns and really co-operated with each other. I can speak for myself, I devoted about 3 hours to each turn and even more to discussions and I'm really tired, we both are tired of this endless fight and we don't want all this to last (even more with game progress) for another 50 turns.
I'm sad. We really counted on victory here but games with open graphs are evil and I probably will never play one again. Being (or seeming) strong means that you will always be ganged upon by a horde of smaller nations.

Enough words. Goodbye and good luck.

p.s. To those of you who still think that TC and Agartha are uber nations, I will once again say that in my opinion they both are below average in MA.
p.p.s. Please, decide who will be the game admin and contact me)
ano, I'm sorry to hear that you guys feel that way. I can sympathize with your sentiments b/c I have been in similar situations in past MP games. However, in games with graphs on, the gang on the leader is a fact of life. It means that the wolf has to hide in sheep skin. Showing blunt raw power will usually get one ganged upon and stomped to death quickly. In that respect this game was extraordinary since you weren't ganged upon consistently - meaning you were constantly at war but not against as many as five or six teams at one time - so in that respect you were actually lucky until now.

I also understand that its a lot of work to do each turn and that it gets tiresome after a while. In any case, I for one, would be happy if you change your minds and keep playing. Yes, you will probably (well - hopefully for me at least) get crushed by all the nations ganging on you but that's to be expected when you are the leader with such a vast advantage over every single team.

In any case if your decision is final and you'd also like to transfer admin responsibilities then I'm willing to take them on myself. I'll carry them out w/o regards to whether or not I'm still in the game or have a viable chance at victory.

[WraithLord]

Oh and ano, I want reiterate my opinion of your team.
I think you played really well together, you have optimized your turns to achieve the maximum with what you had. You have planned and executed really well and I confess that even this old dog has learned a thing or two from our never ending skirmishes.

IMHO Agartha is not a super powerful nation. I think its ok in MP. I think that TC is awesome. In almost every MP I played with TC on board it shined. I think that your build as a team was very successful and capitalized well on the synergy between your nations so the sum was greater that the total of the parts.

Some nation teams were less lucky. I think that Ctis and Man are a good example. A team of mediocre to weak nations that has little synergy between them. No complaints here, just stating my opinion.

[ano]

Well, yes, the decision is final.
Thanks for good words. As for TC, it's a late-game powerhouse. We had a very, very good clam and especially fetish economy and big plans for the next turns. However, in early game it is extremely vulnerable with not many ways to defend itself. After playing Shinuyama in the parallel game i must they that IMO these nations can't even be compared in their power.

[Kuritza]

Thats why I say your team was over the roof. Your vulnerability to rushes was compensated by immortal SC Oracle; Agartha's limited magic paths was covered by your mages. Easy access to globals makes it even worse.
And then BOTH nations become powerhouses.

And btw, TC isnt that 'vulnerable'. Good troops (better than many other nations have), nice choice of gods. You tried to convince us that your position isnt much stronger than mere graphs suggest; now you claim your choice of nations was weakish as well... both claims are very funny. :)

[WraithLord]

Guys, would anyone mind if we permanently add 12h to hosting cycle?

[Meglobob]

No problem at all, in fact can I request a large extension to Sunday night, about 2200hrs Sunday night?

The reason is Mictlan/Baalz does not wish to continue playing, so I am going to give playing both nations a go. This transition phase will mean I will need extra time to do my turns.

With several of us playing 2 nations, it might be a idea to go to 96hr turns, after this turn. This will cut down on the constant extensions.

Thanks.

[WraithLord]

Extenstion given.

I'll wait some to see if there are any objections and then go ahead with your suggestion and set to 96h.

[Baalz]

Yeah, can you update the email address to point to Bob's. I've been just crippled by the TC/AG juggernaut and it's just too depressing to limp along in the face of everybody else's power (I'm way worse off than the score graphs indicate). Anyway, hopefully the remnants of my empire can help my worthy ally out a bit. GG guys!

[Meglobob]

Thanks for playing Baalz you where a excellent teammate. Good luck in your other games, except Kingmaker of course!

[WraithLord]

Thank you Baalz for the game. You were a worthy ally to have and this pounding we received together by the hands of TC+Agartha made me appreciate your team as courageous, trustworthy and steadfast.

Meglobob, Can you please PM your email address to me?

[WraithLord]

ok. seems like 96h is accepted to all. will set accordingly.

[WraithLord]

WL: I'd like to have a 12h extension please.
WL: Ahmm, not sure about this.
Well, whatever, granted.

:D

[WraithLord]

Guys, I'll be on a long weekend vacation between 10/31 - 03/11. I'd like postpone hosting at this time so that I don't stale.

[Dimaz]

WL, can you delay the hosting by 10 hours? Thanks.

[WraithLord]

Sure. Done.

For future you may want to ask for extensions earlier b/c of time difference - it was a close thing for me to miss your message.

[Kuritza]

Please postpone the hosting again. Server doesnt accept Caelum's turn for some reason.

[WraithLord]

Boy, you sure have a liking for close calls. Less than an hour to host and I was just about to go offline for an hour or so. Lucky I saw your message :)

Added 12h. Can you try and check with llama why your turn is rejected?

[Kuritza]

It wasnt rejected, just wasnt accepted. :) For no reason.
Now it finally got scored, but server doesnt generate a turn (with all 2h files submitted). Something's wrong in a Dutch Kingdom.

[WraithLord]

I got turn files to my email (still didn't check them). So can I assume the hosting went well?

[Kuritza]

I will be afk until December - a vacation trip to Thailand. :) So please change my email to dimazzz80 (at) gmail.com - my teammate will have to manage both nations at once.

Speakig of which... I'd really like to ask everyone about a one turn per week schedule. Since we are the new target of everyone's ire (and the war started damn poorly for our side), its going to be hell for him. We dont expect to survive, but would like to give you a good fight - surely, you expect no less. :)

[WraithLord]

Do you want the email changed immediately?

I have no objections to changing the schedule.

[Kuritza]

Yes, it would be best to change the email now.

[WraithLord]

"The e-mail address for Bandar Log has now been changed to dimazzz80@gmail.com."

and
"The current turn for Bandar Log will be resent in the next few minutes."

[Dimaz]

Yes, I received the turn. Thanks for schedule change, hope I'll have enough time on weekends to make our turns :)

[Meglobob]

I think 1/turn per week is too long. I would lose complete interest in such a long turn a round. 96 hrs + the odd generous extension is plenty long enough. Never been in a game with longer than that!

[WraithLord]

We're currently on 96h.

So far we have one doesn't mind and one objection. What do the other guys think?

This is a very sensitive issue, too short a schedule is just as bad as too long and a good balance is important. Currently we're running on 96h and so far so good.

Another fact to consider is that all the other teams in the game are being run by one player for quite some time. Heck, I'm running things that way since practically game start. I'm not mentioning this to say that your request is out of place, just thought its worth mentioning that it is possible and not that terrible with the lenient schedule we have (and once again, I personally don't mind the extension for these said two weeks).

[Dimaz]

Well, as you say you have been playing for 2 nations for some time already, so you have some sort of long-term and short-term plans for both. In our case, we made the turns rather independently, so currently I know only general plans of Kuritza, but all the short-term decisions are up to me now and I looked at his turns only from time to time. So basically I want to say that I need some time just to observe his current possibilities and resources. Then, I have rather limited amount of time I spend on Dominions - about 1.5 hours a day, and some more on weekend (and I have 2 other games running and Kuritza left me *another* one, Wheel of Time). So I don't think I'll be able to make "proper" turns during the week. OTOH, it seems with 4 (or 5, including AI) teams against us we have little chances in the game, so if you decide that changing the schedule is too much I can live with that and will try to do my best anyway.

[WraithLord]

Well, as you say you have been playing for 2 nations for some time already, so you have some sort of long-term and short-term plans for both. In our case, we made the turns rather independently, so currently I know only general plans of Kuritza, but all the short-term decisions are up to me now and I looked at his turns only from time to time. So basically I want to say that I need some time just to observe his current possibilities and resources. Then, I have rather limited amount of time I spend on Dominions - about 1.5 hours a day, and some more on weekend (and I have 2 other games running and Kuritza left me *another* one, Wheel of Time). So I don't think I'll be able to make "proper" turns during the week. OTOH, it seems with 4 (or 5, including AI) teams against us we have little chances in the game, so if you decide that changing the schedule is too much I can live with that and will try to do my best anyway.

Your arguments sounds reasonable to me, and as I said I don't mind the extension for these two weeks. However I don't decide about changing the schedule, its something that effects all the players so in that I have a double role, I'm a player who doesn't mind the change, and I'm the current admin -- who is trying to represent what the majority of the players prefer.

[Dimaz]

Of course, by *you* in the last sentence I actually meant all other players who will read my post - so I agree that collective decision should be made on that point. I just tried to make our point more clear.

[klagrok]

I too have limited time for two nations....so if Dimaz needs more time It'll work for me--might be able to get 6 hrs of sleep now :)

[WraithLord]

@Kuritza, What is the time frame for which you'd require one turn per week?

[Dimaz]

He is away already. I think he mentioned 2 weeks and he left on 14th, so something like till 28th or so.

[WraithLord]

No objections except from Meglobob.

@Dimaz, would a 5 day turn around be sufficient for you?

@Meglobob, I hope this extension wouldn't cause you to lose interest. Its just for two weeks anyway.

I'll wait 12h more hours just in case there's some more to be said on the matter, then change schedule.

[Meglobob]

@Meglobob, I hope this extension wouldn't cause you to lose interest. Its just for two weeks anyway.

I can live with that.

I actually thought he wanted to go to a weekly turnaround, which is what I objected too.

[Dimaz]

Dimaz, would a 5 day turn around be sufficient for you?
I hope so. If not, I'll ask for extension.

[WraithLord]

done.

"The hosting interval for Qwerty has now been changed to 120 hours, and the deadline for the next hosting has been automatically postponed by 24 hours.

Please note that this information will not be updated on the game status page for a few minutes."

[Dimaz]

Sorry WL and others, but I already have to ask for 24 more hours - I was able to make only Caelum turn so far. I'll try to finish both tomorrow, but I'm not sure that I'll have enough time...

[WraithLord]

done.

"Hosting postponed for Qwerty by 24 hours. The game will now host at 23:35 GMT on Tuesday November 18th.

Please note that this information will not be updated on the game status page for a few minutes."

[Dimaz]

Sorry, but again I have to ask for 24 more hours. It's still possible that I will send the turn tonight, but I'm not sure and better be safe.

[Meglobob]

My turn for an extension!

Can you extend by 24hrs to host sunday night? Out on a christmas do, sat.

[WraithLord]

Done

"Hosting postponed for Qwerty by 24 hours. The game will now host at 21:05 GMT on Sunday November 30th."

Merry Christmas :)

[Dimaz]

Since Kuritza was able to return from his Thailand trip, I'd like to ask for the last 24 hours delay for us to discuss current situation and make this turn. Hopefully after that we can switch to 96h schedule.

[WraithLord]

done: "Hosting postponed for Qwerty by 24 hours. The game will now host at 21:05 GMT on Monday December 1st."

[WraithLord]

Hosting is back to 96h.

[Kuritza]

We are traditionally asking to postpone hosting for 24 h. :)

[WraithLord]

It is done.

[WraithLord]

"The game will now host at 18:05 GMT on Saturday December 6th."

[Meglobob]

I have a busy weekend again, so can we postpone to Sunday night 9 pm'ish?

Then I do my turns in a relaxed fashion on Sun morning while nursing my hangover!

[WraithLord]

Add 24h, would that suffice?

Also, set the hosting back to five days, as judging by all the requests for extensions, four was completely not realistic.

[klagrok]

Any chance we can delay submitting turn 74 until January 3rd? WIll be on vacation, and if Im lucky and the weather doesnt ground me back east, might be able to get it in by the 1st but dont wont to take any chances. Thanks in advance. Should have both moves in for turn 73 shortly.

[WraithLord]

sure thing.

[Kuritza]

From United Ape Nations, to the Anti-Nexus alliance -

We hereby inform you that our Arcane Nexus is a part of our Outer Space exploration program and doesnt pose a threat to anyone. This war is both inhuman, monkeycidal and anticaelumic.

Please find attached a banana (unless diplomatic markatas ate it again)

P.S.
Trespassers will be assailed with monkey poo!

[Meglobob]

Going to struggle getting my turns in by tonight, can I have a 24hr extension till sun night?

[Meglobob]

Forget the above, just managed to get them in by 30 secs or so...

[klagrok]

Anyway we can extend turn another 24 hrs just in case my flight is delayed?? Thanks

[WraithLord]

done

[Dimaz]

WL, can we delay the hosting by 12 hours?

[WraithLord]

done.

[klagrok]

sorry guys--appears that my Arco turn arrived late :( Pretty sure I still had 25 minutes until the turn ran.............

[WraithLord]

Next time just ask for more time, and do it one or two days ahead of time to make sure I get it.

[WraithLord]

A player asked for 24H extension. So be it.

[WraithLord]

I'll be out of home this weekend and mostly offline so I'll have to postpone by 48h. Sorry 4 the delay :(

Although seeing as no one have submitted their turns yet (24h prior to schedule expiration) makes me wonder whether we could all use an extra day to the schedule.

[klagrok]

I know I could---my internet connection going bonkers on me--plus mucho work. Should be good to get turn in by updated time though :) Still havent looked at it yet :)

[WraithLord]

ok then, so unless I hear any objections I'll go ahead and add another day to the schedule.

[Dimaz]

I haven't heard from Kuritza in last 2 days, can you add that another day so we can coordinate our plans?

[Kuritza]

Well... Sorry for disappearing, but now I have to ask for a rollback. Skipping turns in our situation (war against everyone) means a 100% loss.

[WraithLord]

@Dimaz, I'm sorry I haven't seen your message on time. I had a crazy morning at work (We work Sundays where I live).
Now, had you sent this message earlier I would likely have picked it up. Alas, it was very close to the hosting and was missed by me :(

This is not the first time I'm getting last min. extension request from you and I asked you before to both try and make the request earlier so that I have a chance to read and comply, and to send a PM to me if you want to make sure I get it (I read the game thread less often than I check my PMs).

@Kuritza, I'm realty sorry you staled. It sucks, however way you look at it.
However, considering our very relax schedule (120h) and the fact that last turn was further delayed by me and the fact that you didn't ask for an extension and that Dimaz asked for one at the last moment. Well considering all that and the fact that all players but you have played their turns which allows you to see the results of next turn and update according to them (not that I'm saying you would do so, but technically you can).
And further considering the suckiness of having to redo our turns to change the orders in order to adapt to possible changes.

Well considering all that I must say I object to a rollback.

What do the other players think?

[WraithLord]

Oh and one more thing. I mentioned before I'll be on three weeks vacation this March.

In case the game would continue until then (which I hope it will since its really interesting) I would handover my nations to a temporary sub.

And what a sub I have found!

The illustrious former emperor of TC - ano - has agreed to relocate to the marshy throne of Ctis in exchange for 12 Bog beasts and a life long supply of Ctisian weed :)

The former Agarthan overlord, Karnoza is considering to join as well in ensuring that Man's kingdom is run smoothly.

[Dimaz]

WL, I agree that my request was too late, however it wasn't the situation where I knew that I don't have time to make turn, actually my turn was already done, but I had no communication with Kuritza so I decided that to prevent stale I have to ask for delay. I mean, I had no way to know that he's going to stale or that he had no time to make turn or anything, so I just looked at the remaining time and decided that I should ask for delay.
Now, about rollback. Actually, this turn went rather smoothly for me, considering turning on corruption in the middle of it (only few of my mages were killed by horrors). However, I agree with Kuritza, that in the current situation it's almost the choice between rollback and leaving the game for our team. And I don't see why everyone should change their turns, if I understand correctly, after rollback everyone's turns are in place to generate another version of new turn instantly, so we'll need only Kuritza's turn. From what I heard from him, his turn was already almost complete, so I think we should ask him to send the turn without changes, that will be better anyway than current situation. At least, that's my view of the problem.

[Kuritza]

I second that. Its either we rollback, or we go AI. Actually, this is of crucial importance for us. I still didnt have the time to see what's happened, and I can guarantee that I wont, so indeed, you can just send your old .2h files.
Actually, I'm just as tired of this game as you are, so I wont cry if we just stop it and declare either you or anybody else a winner. But we just cannot continue with Bandar Log turn staled - trust me, its crucial. Its not like we dont want to go on as is, we just can not.

[WraithLord]

I hear you, and respect what you're saying. I trust you had something very important going for the previous turn though I can't fathom why if its so awesome you can't just do it this turn. I mean if you were going to cast spell of mastery last turn then what's to prevent you from doing so this turn?

You know, in another game I play, under different circumstances, the host decided on his own to rollback. I objected to that as well for more or less the same arguments I've put here. Then the new turn came back and surprise, all my moves were countered, what a coincidence. Now, Its too much in the grey zone to actually do or say something about it since I deeply respect my fellow player's integrity, and hey he may just have out smarted me in the first place. Nonetheless its enough to make me not trust to keep the same orders when a turn is rolled back. So my point is that rolling back would force me to redo my turns.

Look, I don't want to see you leave, and I don't want anyone declared winner. I hope this game will be played to its end and let whomever wins win, its beside the point, which is to have a fun game. That said, I'm afraid I still object to a rollback. As a player I believe rollbacks should be reserved to only when Lamma server explodes the turn or other similar disaster.

I'm sorry. I just hate the rollback mechanism (when not used for recuperating from server failure) and I still object to rollback.
We are four players here, lets just vote on it and be done with this. I'll go with whatever the majority decides.

[Meglobob]

I after vote against a rollback because:-

1) Astral Corruption went up this turn and a rollback would take away the surprise factor. Strange Astral Corruption goes up and all of a sudden you want a rollback?!?

2) This turn was due Fri, Wraithlord already give a 2 day extension, so you had 7 days to co-operate on your turns and get them in. This is more than fair.

3) You know Wraithlord will always give you an extension but he has requested on several occassions you give reasonable notice. Not the 1 hour or less before the game hosts! You cannot expect Wraithlord to be present 24/7 just in case one of you needs a extension.

4) I lead a very busy life and if I can get the turns in for 2 nations before the game hosts, you should be able to get one turn in!

I see no case at all for a rollback and Bandar should just accept a stale and get on with it.

Rollbacks should only be for when there are technical issues for missing a turn.

[Kuritza]

Meglobob, you can call me a liar all you want, I dont care. I wanted to take a break from Dominions anyway, and I'll have it sooner than I expected, it seems, and this break will probably be MUCH longer.

Have fun, everyone. I thought you played to play, but it turned out that you played to win. With Bandar Log (and probably Caelum) as AI it will be much easier, so its a good thing for everyone.
A pity though, this game just turned interesting. I am seriously disappointed.

P.S.

Meglobob, I had no monthly rituals scripted; I like doing everything manually. So if anything, your astral corruption has hurt me less than it should've. I dont know if it did, even, because as I said, I didnt watch my turn. And probably won't now. Good luck beating the AI - I am sure you will manage.

[Meglobob]

A shame you are not going to continue to play the game but I still oppose a rollback for previous stated reasons.

You just missed 1 turn, big deal, if I had missed a turn I would just continue. Indeed when pressed for time I have often submitted turns that I was not really happy with, but you never see me complaining.

[Dimaz]

@Everyone.
Well, I'm sorry for my teammate's hot words, he's a little rude sometimes. From my point, probably we really gained more than lost with the stale, as I think we were going to lose 3 equipped wishers otherwise and probably others. But, it seems he made his decision and now I have 2 options - take 2 nations or go AI myself. Actually I'd like to continue playing, however I really have no time for 2 nations now. So, unfortunately, it seems I'll go AI too this turn. I'll probably wait for the hosting time to see if some other options appear, though.

[WraithLord]

Wow man, take it easy. MB wasn't calling you a liar. He was just explaining why in his opinion there should not be a rollback. He may not have been utmost gentle about this but I don't think he had any intention to call you a liar or insult you.

I thought more on the subject and it occurred to me that in my experience what happens when players stale is, well, nothing, they stale, suck it up and cont. I mean can you imagine what a nightmare it would be if every time a player stales he would ask for a rollback?- And I can assure you, every player has every reason in the world to believe his turn is crucial. I know I do and I hate to stale, but if it happened b/c I couldn't get the turn on time and didn't ask for extension, well I accept it with a bitter taste and go on with the game.

Think about it. You stale under the most convenient circumstances a player can have. Then you ask for a rollback and threaten to go AI if not complied. Is that a request or an ultimatum?- Are you fed up with the game and just using this as an excuse to bail out?

I don't want you to go AI. I don't. But its you who came up with this notion anyway. For what its worth I ask you to please reconsider. Its just one turn, what's the big deal?- You know what, if you do want to go AI then do so for the "right" reason (that you're bored with the game or don't have time or whatever) but not by slamming the door like this.

[Kuritza]

Its one turn in a very late game in a very intense game, and its a HUGE deal. Yes, indeed this game is very taxing so partially its just an exuse to go out. You should know how taxing it is - and you are just fighting us, not the whole map.
But I wouldnt quit under normal circumstances. Staling a turn is not 'favorable', by any means. I have probably lost more territory, I have lost invaluable mage-time, and, most likely, golems to magic duelers - instead of killing some Atlantean mages as I was going to do. In our position, its next to impossible to recover from; it was hard to hould our ground even without staling.
Being accused of a lie just added insult to injury. :)

[klagrok]

I staled as Arco a few turns back, and just excepted it--period. Didnt get my turn in on time, even though I thought I had a few hrs. No rollback.

[WraithLord]

So, have you by chance changed your mind?- Or is your decision to go AI final?

[Kuritza]

Guys, you dont take into account one thing - you DONT HAVE to fight EVERYONE else, so in your position its not as fatal as it is in ours.

Do you guys know what 'circumstances' means? I was ready to send my turn on Friday, but since the hosting was delayed, I didnt - to have another look at the map, to disciss it with my teammate etc. But then **** happened so I couldnt even go online for 2 days. Then I ask for a rollback, thinking you are interested in a good game; instead, you saw it as an opportunity to seize an advantage. This is not what I'd call a good game, or good maneers. If you are so desperate to get an advantage - you can have it now, AI is weak.

[Kuritza]

Oh, and if you are curious, check this - http://www.llamaserver.net/doAdminAction.cgi?game=WheelOfTime&action=showstales
I'm playing Bogarus there. 3 stales, and I still play, because indeed it is no big deal. Its not turn 79, and I dont have to fight against a joint effort of top players.
Why am I even trying to prove anything here? Heck.

[Dimaz]

Hi everyone.
After some consideration, I decided to try and take both nations to myself. However, since I have insane amount of work now (we have an exhibition on 3rd) and making proper turns under corruption requires huge amount of mm, I have to ask for a WEEK extension for current turn. From the next turn I'll try to go by schedule, though. If I see that I don't have time for this game, I'll switch to AI.

[Meglobob]

I have no objection to giving Dimaz the extra time, so he can take control of both nations.

But, a full week does after be a one off or we will never finish! After this I suggest at maxium 48hr extensions, applicable to everyone no matter what!

It would be good to finish this game before I after draw my pension!:D

Next team game must have VP's as the victory conditions.

[WraithLord]

The game will now host at 10:10 GMT on Thursday February 5th.

Now let's try to get this game back on track as MB suggests.

[Dimaz]

WL, sorry again, but I'll need 14 more hours to complete the turn. Last week was really hard, was working both Saturday and Sunday till evening and had no time at all for the game. I made half a turn already, but I need another evening to comlete.

[Dimaz]

OK, it seems I failed to ask in time again. So, now I switch to AI. Thanks everyone for interesting game.

[WraithLord]

I'm sorry to hear that Dimaz :(

Hope to share fun DOM games with you in the future. Though I'll probably stay away from such endless open ended games.

[Meglobob]

Yes, the lesson from this game for future is VPs or some other viable win condition. Ideally, I think a dominions MP should last till turn 70 - 130'ish.

But, winning a game of dominions has always been about stamina as well as skill in the late game.

This game had alot of very, very skilled dominions players in it. So to break them down was/his very difficult and frustrating.

You certainly played a good game Diamz.

I will 100% not be joining any open-ended MP games of dominions in the future!

[ano]

Yep, "open-ended" games are a pain. If you want to win, of course... That's why I nearly never play more than one at once. A lot of time is needed to plan everything accurately and even more time in a team game. Most probably, I'll never have MP experience with most of Dom nations but it doesn't matter much.
OTOH, other victory conditions (such as VP's), in my opinion, make game less interesting.

[ano]

I liked this game a lot, we both did. All this planning of common strategies, using common spells, resources and items is very time consuming but very interesting.
I enjoyed battles with all of you (except Bandar, Caelum which we didn't met in battle) and learned a lot from this game. What I learned, however, was mostly non-game things but diplomacy issues. There were several moments when I started thinking that we could survive this onslaught and even win but it couldn't last too long really, and it didn't:).
Thanks, everyone, and hope to meet you in future games.

[WraithLord]

Well its not over yet for you ano :)

I mean, I'll entrust Ctis and Man to your hands while I'm on March vacation, so you'll dive right back into the thick of it :D (Thanks again for that! )

And don't worry about needing to plan - the lizards are thick skull brutes who like to squish things rather than formulate plans.

[ano]

I mean, I'll entrust Ctis and Man to your hands while I'm on March vacation, so you'll dive right back into the thick of it :D
Not mine, but karnoza's most probably..
Also, I was nearly sure you were going to stop the game while you were not:)

[WraithLord]

So my thanks go to you both. Its noble of you to sub for me after the bitter war we had.


Also, I was nearly sure you were going to stop the game while you were not:)
Didn't understand this. Do you mean stop the game while I'm on vacation?- For me it would have been ideal but its hardly fair towards the other players. I'd never ask for something like that.

[ano]

No, I meant that after your and MB's posts about "never join open-ended games" I thought that you're too tired of this one to continue.

[WraithLord]

I'm tired, but I want resolution.

To this day I repent agreeing to a tie in radiance (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=33213&highlight=radiance) not b/c victory was important, but rather b/c of the feeling that something was missing - like seeing two thirds of the movie and then leaving and never seeing the end.

I want this game resolved and I'll do my best to keep up with its pace in the meantime.

[Meglobob]

One of my mages met the Abomination of Desolation this turn!:doh:

Do you know this ugly critter comes with false horrors as body guards?!?

So still fun to play and things to learn, so I will continue.

Will PM you Wraithlord/Klagrok over the weekend with a suggestion how we continue to the next phase of the game.

But, I will keep to the policy of never joining a open-ended game in the future. My desire to do 2-3 hour turns ends with this game. Not surprising after all the MP's I have played.

My highest MP turn limit was 140'ish, even throu I would have eventually won, I too agreed to a joint victory La Caleum/Jomon. It would have taken me till turn 200+ to completely conquer my opponents, also the guy running the server wanted to switch it off and we were running 48hr turnaround. Madness!

[WraithLord]

Busy work week and weekend out of home leave me little choice but to postpone by 48h. Sorry for the inconvenience.

[klagrok]

works for me as work killing me and out all weekend as well :)

[Meglobob]

Busy work week and weekend out of home leave me little choice but to postpone by 48h. Sorry for the inconvenience.

No problem, could have got my turns in on time but now I will chill out and watch match of the day!:)

[WraithLord]

:lol I watch true blood and do a turn or two of disciples II GotL when I get a "dom" off evening :)

Which is extremely rare of late...

[klagrok]

Hey I gots that game :) Havent played it for a few years though....

[WraithLord]

Its awesome. It has great gfx, music and mood. best of all you don't have to think hard :D

[Dimaz]

:lol I watch true blood and do a turn or two of disciples II GotL when I get a "dom" off evening :)

Which is extremely rare of late...

Heh, and I play new King's Bounty and TQ:IT in such cases, not that rare now, with only 2 games left, though both in lategame and with winning position. :)

[WraithLord]

Great to hear that. Both that you have more free time and winning positions :)

Though of the two I'd rather take free time. Dom games are great fun usually but sometimes games tend to drag forever and become less game and more chore.

Qwerty for me is a love hate relationship. Its really great to reach end game with MA Ctis and Man (both weak nations IMHO) but the turns do take very long to complete. Add to that that I'm soloing this for most of the game. So sad :cry: ;)

[WraithLord]

One more thing guys.

As I mentioned before I'm going on vacation. Ano and Karnoza have graciously agreed to sub for me until I'm back (25/03).
So as of turn 83 they will assume full control of the nations of Man and Ctis.

Also, once I'm on vacation the game will have no admin. So either one of you wants to volunteer to sub for me as admin or you just let the game roll until I'm back. In which case I'd advice you add a day to the schedule b/c there will be no extensions given.

[ano]

Perhaps I may resume being an admin. If you didn't change password, of course

[WraithLord]

pwd is same.

Thank you very much ano!

[Meglobob]

Heh, and I play new King's Bounty and TQ:IT

Just seen the new King's bounty in the shops. Is it really good? I loved the original kings bounty, precursor to the Heros of Might and Magic series. Probably buy it soon.

What's TQ:IT?

[Dimaz]

Heh, and I play new King's Bounty and TQ:IT

Just seen the new King's bounty in the shops. Is it really good? I loved the original kings bounty, precursor to the Heros of Might and Magic series. Probably buy it soon.

What's TQ:IT?

Well, IMO it's very good game, in fact last year I played mainly KB and Witcher, both were very addictive and fun. However, I'm a little biased in case of KB, since the developers are Russian as me and there aren't that many good Russian (should I say mainstream) games on the market. AFAIK, there are some problems with English translation (there are some in-game jokes that are not easy to translate), but I think, overall, if you like the original, you should try this one. Also, critical balance problems are already solved in English version (I think they published 1.6 version).

As for TQ:IT, it's Titan Quest - Immortal Throne, probably the best Diablo-clone now (including/excluding D itself, I'm still not sure). Nice graphics, nice loot, nice atmosphere, some drive (D still better on this point) - all that expected from Diablo-clone.

[ano]

Guys, most probably, I won't have enough free time until weekend to dive into the game so (as I now also work on Saturdays... sadly), I'd like hosting to occur no earlier than Sunday which means 24h delay. Does anybody have objections?

[klagrok]

Nope

[Meglobob]

Okay with me.

[Meglobob]

Do you want to extend the deadline to sunday evening, about 11 pm?

I like doing my turns on sunday too.

[Meglobob]

Opps got a problem, it says turn corrupted when I try to play my Atlantis turn. I have done a turn resend but it still says its corrupted. So I can't see, never mind play my turn.

Anyone got any ideas?

My Mictlan turn is fine btw.

[ano]

This it what llamaserver FAQ says on the topic

- Very weirdly, a problem's happened twice where a particular turn file arrives in a player's inbox corrupt. On requesting a resend, the turn arrives corrupt again. But the file's fine on the LlamaServer, and if I change the e-mail address to my own and get it to resend it works fine. Solution: ask the admin to get the file sent to him (by temporarily changing the nation's e-mail address) and have him forward the file to you. The next turn the problem should have gone. This is super super weird, but fortunately also super rare.
So if you've got another email address we may try it.

[Meglobob]

This it what llamaserver FAQ says on the topic

- Very weirdly, a problem's happened twice where a particular turn file arrives in a player's inbox corrupt. On requesting a resend, the turn arrives corrupt again. But the file's fine on the LlamaServer, and if I change the e-mail address to my own and get it to resend it works fine. Solution: ask the admin to get the file sent to him (by temporarily changing the nation's e-mail address) and have him forward the file to you. The next turn the problem should have gone. This is super super weird, but fortunately also super rare.
So if you've got another email address we may try it.

Thanks for that Ano, I have PM'd you another email address.

[klagrok]

Mega, I got the same error for Oceania--must be an underwater thing. Ano, I am going to PM you another email address to set Oceania to.

[ano]

No problem.
A bit strange that such things happened simultaneously. Meglobob, is your problem solved? If not, we may have to contact llamabeast.

[Meglobob]

No problem.
A bit strange that such things happened simultaneously. Meglobob, is your problem solved? If not, we may have to contact llamabeast.

Still waiting for my turn to arrive at my alternative email address.:)

Let you know if and when it arrives. Pretty wierd, perhaps it was a battle Atlantis/Oceania fought? I think we may have clashed in 2 provinces and looking at the graphs, Atlantis orders went throu, gained provinces. Like I said wierd.

[klagrok]

I got a message at my 2nd email address that Oceania was now in there--but the attachment wasnt there...of course with llama server done--pretty sure I didnt attack any of your spots this turn Meglo, but as I deleted my old file cant tell :)

[ano]

Do you mean that you still didn't receive your turn?
Llamserver seems to be down ATM or at least working incorrectly so let's wait until it is up again.

[klagrok]

Yup no turn--but it hasnt acknowledged the turn I sent in for Victoria either. Meglo, it appears the stats are the same this turn and last turn for Oceania and Atlantis---I had this problem back in August when my partner left and Oceania staled for like 8 turns in a row. Llama fixed it back then so should be good, but our two nations might have staled this last turn. Unless you attacked and failed :)

[klagrok]

Meglo, are you still getting corrupt file for Atlantis? I requested resend for Oceania with new email and still getting corrupt file.

[ano]

It seems to me that this problem has some relation to the disk overflow that occurred at llamaserver. Perhaps, we should notify llamabeast.
Maybe we will even have to make a rollback (despite especially I wouldn't like it)

[klagrok]

I will message llama about it :)

[Meglobob]

If Llama can't fix the trn files from hosting, then we will after rollback using the same 2h files. We had to rollback in Doedicurus and all was well again.

Sad, because Mictlan had a great turn.

[ano]

Yes, it seems like it is a computer error and we will have to make a rollback. I asked llama to look at this game so let's wait for his resolution and after that make a rollback probably.
p.s. Will change your email back in few minutes.
p.p.s klagrok, probably we should change yours as well. PM me.

[klagrok]

ok Ano I'll send my regular email address to you.

[ano]

llamabeast made a rollback... terrific turn. I don't even want to comment it.
WL, when you are back and read it, you will understand what I mean.
I must admit that rollbacks are evil. I was pretty optimistic after previous version of this turn and now...

[Meglobob]

Got my turns ok now.

I lost a fully equipped Tart the turn before but now he lives to fight on. Yea!

Good to hear Ano, be interesting (especially with the new patch) how your Tarts + other SC's get on when I cast Infernal Prison + Claws of Cocytus on them. Never got much chance to cast those spells in MP before, so should be fun.:)

[ano]

I am sorry but with this rehost we will most probably need a pause until Saturday. That's because (frankly) our turns were half complete, I think, last Monday (llamaserver was down and there were no other games) and after this terrific rehost we had neither wish to adopt our thoughts to new results nor free time for it. I was quite busy these weekend as well.
Once again, sorry. No problem with rehost, of course - it's life, - but still.
All this is "most probably", however. If I have free time in the nearest three days, I will do my best to make this turn.

[Meglobob]

Can you add 24hrs onto the host time?

Been a busy working week (end of tax year, so actually THE busiest), so could not do much work on my turns and Saturday is the usual write off, what with doing my 2nd job and having a social life!

No get up Sundays great thou, have my turns complete no problem by the evening.

Is Wraith back? Is Ano or Wraith doing this latest turn btw?

[ano]

No problem. I'll try to finish my turn tomorrow though.
As for WL, I didn't hear from him. Me and karnoza are currently playing for C'tis/Man

[WraithLord]

I'm back in town :)

ano, I've sent you and Karnoza an email.
Thank you so much guys!

[ano]

I already sent you a reply.
Just to clarify the situation, WL will continue playing C'tis/Man starting from next turn.

[WraithLord]

missed that reply since I've hundreds of emails in my gmail inbox :doh:

[WraithLord]

I'll need some 4 days extension in order to complete the turn.

These turns are taking forever to do, which doesn't sit well with my backlog at work :(

I wonder when this game will ever end. I remember I joined it after my last vacation (last year) and it is still running, what after many games I started since have long ended.

[WraithLord]

Since I've already submitted the turns I don't need any further extension so I've set the hosting to 07:30 GMT on Wednesday April 8th.

If any of you guys require a further extension please let me know.

[Meglobob]

Can you add 12hrs Wraith? Weds my day off, so intended to finish my turns then.

[WraithLord]

done :)

[WraithLord]

Klagrok needs some extra time to do this turn so I've added 48h.

[Meglobob]

Can you add 48hrs Wraith so it hosts Sunday night?

Hoped to finish my turns off today (day off) but after go out.

Sorry about the short notice.

[Meglobob]

Nevermind, did some speed turns:vroom:

[WraithLord]

I'm sorry you had to rush your turn MB :(
I went to visit family and (literally) just got back and saw your message.

For the future - If you think you'll need an extension I suggest you PM me or post here at least 24h before the turn hosts. This way there's no chance I'll miss the request and you'll have all the time you need to do your turn at your leisure.

[Meglobob]

Okay 48hrs in advance.

Can you add 48hrs to the hosting time, so it hosts Sunday night, a much more civilised hosting time! Friday sucks.

[WraithLord]

Sure thing :)

Are you comfortable with the current schedule or would you like another day added?

[Meglobob]

Honestly hosting Sunday night would be the best bet. I can always get my turns in by then.

With you having arcane nexus + forge up, I guess the games going more and more your way. I have just a couple of long shots to try and if they fail to swing the game my way will probably throw in the towel. Got to try them or I will always be left wondering what might have been!

[WraithLord]

From now on it hosts Sunday nights. Until such time as one of us requires an extension that is :)

MB, I appreciate both your willingness to fight on and your reluctance to avoid dragging the game once it becomes clear that that would be pointless. I'd do exactly the same were I in your place.

I admit it will take some time for my globals to take effect since currently I'm using most of the S income to empower my AN caster for a recast in case you manage to overwrite with 999S, and most of the items forged are clams so that I could increase even more my S income. Perhaps I’m over cautious and thus the game is dragged even longer, but having come so far I’d rather be safe than sorry.

[Meglobob]

Pm'd you Wraith, could be good news...:)

[WraithLord]

Meglobob has just PMed me that he conceded the game to me.
Being as MB was my rival for supremacy and that Klagrok was nearly finished and taking into account that I have both AN and the Forge up I think it is safe to conclude that by this point the game is over with my nations, Ctis/Man, victory.

[klagrok]

:D
Well done WL! Somehow I was still kicking

[WraithLord]

Usually I don't get much excited when games are over. I'm just happy I'll get more free time and perhaps start a new game :)

This game is different though. I am excited that it is over.

My partner had to bow out very early in the game and I had to play most of this year long game alone. Handling two nations alone is *tough*. However this was nothing compared to what was coming: Two fierce wars against superior enemies and with wonderful allies: MB and Klagrok.

This game was epic in its scale. I think the players are superb.
ano and karnoza, Kuritza and Dimaz, Baalz and Meglobob, Klagrok and Ossa. Each has shown great skill and character in this game.

In this game I also came to deeply respect MB. We were allied for most of the game and we both got beat quite bad. It is his resolve that has inspired me to cont. fighting. Then when it came to endgame and we had to duke it out he gave me brutal battles and war on a scale I haven't experienced in the past. And yet, tenacious as he may be, he is noble enough to concede when it was clear the game is lost instead of dragging it for a few more months.

I also came to respect Klagrok. He was also shoulder to shoulder with me in the trenches during all those wars. And no matter what the odds he wouldn't surrender. Even when during the last turns MB went after him and almost finished him he somehow managed to survive. He showed great resilience. I found Klagrok's resolve admirable.

This is why I'm excited that this game is over. Its just that the players were so great and the game so epic.
Thank you all for one awesome game.
See you in future games :D

And BTW, does MA Man have previous MP wins or is it the first - I tell you it is one lousy nation, its a miracle it got so far :)

[Meglobob]

Congratulations Wraithlord!:up:

Well done on sticking it out to the end Klagrok.:)

This was a very fierce and hard fought game, with alot of very good players in it. Ano, Karnoza and Dimaz in particular were very good tough opponents. Wraithlord did an excellent job of organising and co-ordinating the alliance which eventually just wore them down. In the end I just could not compete with Wraith's advantage in gems.

In the end our team only made two big strategic mistakes, me with the Atlantis pretender, putting death instead of nature magic, stopped me from clamming.:doh: Baalz for not castling and defending the steel overns site with Mictlan, thats a game winning site if fully exploited.

I was very pleased with the job I did bringing Mictlan back from the Abyss and turning them into a superpower once again. But I still don't like Ma Atlantis much as a nation.

Ma Man has already won 1 newbie game and I got a joint win when playing Ma Man in another newbie game, yes it was my 1st ever MP. You can tell because Ma Man, Manchaka and Ulm jointly won, possibly the 3 weakest nations in Ma.:D

Oh yea, playing 2 nations was tough, wouldn't like to do it again.

[Dimaz]

The game was fun, thanks to all the participants for a good fight. I was really relieved when we quit, though.

[WraithLord]

MB, indeed you made a remarkable comeback with Mictlan. I think it led the provinces and gem income graphs by an impressive margin towards the end.

Re. MA-Man, I'm amazed it managed to win in MP. I mean, this nation is ok for start to mid game but in end game it is just sorry. Lack of magical diversity is the main killer for Man. Specifically the lack of access to astral is crippling in end game. Add to that lot's of map move 1 troops. Old age crones and the weakness against inanimate lifeless SCs and you get an ugly endgame picture.
The impression I'll most remember from my MA-Man experience is how my mothers died by the droves while performing raiding duty.

MA-Ctis was altogether a different story and turned out to be a pleasant surprise. Careful dominion control can ensure you won't piss anyone off and it turned out the disease dominion was a deterrent, of sorts, until very late in the game. Yes, undead SCs and golems just ignored it but the mage support that could have been very helpful for them couldn't do the same.
This led to an interesting phenomena - Most of the SCs sent to raid MA-Ctis turf were exterminated. The golem SCs were sometime dispatched as easily as by a small shaman communion spamming opposition. The tartarians by skelli spam + dust to dust/charm spam among other counters.
MA-Man OtoH was freely raided and often had only its castles left.

MA-Ctis has a *sweet* lineup, both in troops, priests and mages. The sauromancers are awesome and what weaknesses they have the shamans close very effectively. Just try RoSing a mixed bunch of them, or send an SC to eliminate them ;)
One glaring weakness I did suffer from is shock resistance. I had a hard time coming up with counters and often paid dearly for that.

All in all, this game had an epic feel to it. One of the best I had the privilege to take part in.

[Calahan]

May I offer my congratulations to WraithLord for what sounds like a very fine win, and to all those remaining at the end. As a complete outside observer, it's good to hear the final players give some feedback into what went on during the game.

And the main reason why I'm posting, the win comes dead-on the one year anniversary of the game being created. That's hella spooky!??!

[WraithLord]

Thanks Calahan.

Wow, your observation is really spooky. One year old now isn't it?

If one sentence could extract my perspective of the game it would be something like: "I got beat up, then got beat some more, and more, and more and then - I won". Not a usual MP experience as I was involved in wars, usually on the losing side, from the very start.

[Meglobob]

You mean like, Rocky, the more beat up you got, the meaner you became.

Wow! Really spooky to end exactly 1 year later! Not planned at all.

The game was really epic, it was full of magic rich sites, overflowing in fact, Arcane Nexus was cast by 2 different nations, same with Forge of Ancients. Astral Corruption was up virtually the entire endgame. I alone had cast Tartarian Gate 50+ times. It was also a vicious none stop battle virtually from year 1 till the end, the NE Africa bit of the map turned into a carnage zone where army after army, thug after thug, SC after SC came to fight and die. All in all really good fun...:)

[WraithLord]

You mean like, Rocky, the more beat up you got, the meaner you became.

More like the more beat up I got the more pathetic I became. Thus good hearted champions took pity on me and saved me from certain defeat :)




The game was really epic, it was full of magic rich sites, overflowing in fact, Arcane Nexus was cast by 2 different nations, same with Forge of Ancients. Astral Corruption was up virtually the entire endgame. I alone had cast Tartarian Gate 50+ times. It was also a vicious none stop battle virtually from year 1 till the end, the NE Africa bit of the map turned into a carnage zone where army after army, thug after thug, SC after SC came to fight and die. All in all really good fun...:)

:lol re. the NE Africa death arena. The amount of blood spilled on these accursed dunes was w/o parallel. It was as you describe, a mad dance in which provinces changed hand routinely and armies, thugs and SCs searched and found their deaths.
It was there for example that I one time lost a huge army (20+ mages, hundreds of troops, ice deamons and undeads escorted by a few tartarian and ID SCs to a well coordinated teleport+wrathfull skies+ rudra's from hell ambush set upon me by Kuritza -- that hurt btw)

[Dimaz]

It was there for example that I one time lost a huge army (20+ mages, hundreds of troops, ice deamons and undeads escorted by a few tartarian and ID SCs to a well coordinated teleport+wrathfull skies+ rudra's from hell ambush set upon me by Kuritza -- that hurt btw)
Yes, that was one of our best moments in this game. We spent at least 100 pearls on teleport spells alone. I have to say, it was completely his idea and I thought it too risky, but he managed it. We lost 1 equipped Rudra on retreat after your dog swallowed it, and some less important units. BTW, we planned second such attack on Man capital to stop capital-only mages production after dealing with Arco. Also, we were really impressed with your tartarian production speed without any means of healing them.

[WraithLord]

Towards midgame I started crunching anywhere between 3-6 tartarians per turn (depending on D gems availability). W/O those undead mammoths Ctis would have been overrun.

BTW, you would not have been the first to try and invade Man's capital :)
ano and karnoza were that close to that but a combination of timing and awesome luck on my part caused them big losses that turn. I even managed to charm one of their tartarians. I think it was the same turn that you guys gave them the notice on canceling the NAP and the same turn they decided they had enough of the endless world encompassing war.

[Kuritza]

We wouldnt have given you the pleasure of charming our SC's. )) We planned to attack with lots of golems (since Man is short on astral magic duelers) and cast wrathful skies/fire storm/astral tempest at once. Of course, flyers to intercept teleporting duelers from Arco and Atlantis, siege golems to breach the walls immediately etc.

Alas, for 3-4 turns we had other important things to do, like the aforementioned ambush against Ctis, and then two stales in a row killed us for good.

[WraithLord]

Perhaps and perhaps not. In one word: Domes :D

[Kuritza]

As far as I remember, we attacked your capitol with a scout and found out you had no domes - perhaps you've cast them later.
Or we were going to TP on a neighbouring province and attack you from there. I dont remember, tbh.

[WraithLord]

Tell me the turn # and I'll look it up later.
What I do remember is that I had no domes when ano teleported his golems and SCs on me. After his attacks I made sure to put the astral dome and later added a nature dome as well.

At the very least you'd have needed to pass through the astral dome, meaning that probably only half your army would have actually got through.

Had you attacked an adjacent province you would given me the turn I needed to nail your army.

That said. I clearly agree that this is all highly hypothetical. Sometimes it's something as simple as a bad roll that screws an otherwise perfect plan. So, as I said, perhaps it would have worked for you and perhaps not.

[Kuritza]

Well, yes. :) Any plan can fail for no reason.
Most recent example - I gave Bandar Log another try recently; as I stormed a castle of my neighbour, replay showed that my SC goddess wiped TC cavalry clean, but on the global map I've lost, my goddess has retreated (no afflictions, just ran away), all my sacreds and and elephants perished. :)

I'm wondering how could you nail our invading golems'n'rudras army though? Just curiousty; domes tend to be a double-edged blade, they prevent its owner from reinforcing his castle just as they protect it from teleporting enemies.

[WraithLord]

Yes, I had lots of incidents in which replay results were different than real results. It seems like a kinda bug that will never get fixed.

Re. nailing your hypothetical army. It all depends. In this respect dominions is similar to chess. All the plans depend on timing, planning ahead and quick adaptation. So if your army where to be made only of Golems (so as not to lose SCs to charm) I'd have applied a certain method. Had your army consisted on only Rudra's a different method would have been used. A mixed force of them would have been the hardest to stop.
Delving into details is tedious, suffice to say that the ingredients to a response were at my possession. Or rather I was and still am under the impression that they were. Perhaps it was all wishful thinking :)

And yes, domes can indeed work against you as you have mentioned. Sometimes anticipation and stealthy troops/commanders can help with the reinforcements issue. I know this helped MA Man save the day in a number of sieges. Storming an otherwise empty fort that is in-fact protected by, say, 30 mothers and crones is all together a different story.

[Silence0]

Looks like a great game..Congratulations to wraithlord..May i ask if some of you could upload or pm me the final turn files if you still have them? As a noob who dreams of reaching endgame i would like to see how it looks..Thanks in advance:o

[Kuritza]

A combination force, of course. Rudra casters (to avoid getting charmed), siege and astral golems to tank, and all the battlefield-wide spells in the spellbook.
Oh well. You, MB and Ossa/Klagron did a good job keepig us busy. And just as we seemingly stopped your most threatening thugs/armies, two stales happened. I'd really love to see your method of response to our siege. :)
Grats.

[WraithLord]

@Kuritza, Seems like you would have gotten me after all :)
good thing we presented lots of targets to you or Man would have been toast. Perhaps Ctis would have been better off w/o it - I swear at times I got that feeling, esp. when sending Ctis SCs, thugs and armies to clean up the mess all those raiding enemies wrecked in Man's backyard.

@Silence0, thanks, PMed you.