Glory (MA game)- game is live

[chrispedersen]

It was up when I left this morning. But I can't ping it now either. I will reset the timer for 24 hours, when I get home.

[Bwaha]

well its up now. thanks Bwaha

[StrictlyRockers]

I'm willing to permanently sub for Caelum in this game.

[kasnavada]

I have sent you the required information.

[Bwaha]

hey it looks like the server is up. calem has done his turn. so lets see if we can get some motion in this game. i love dom3 but hate the eternal wait. well hope to have a turn done tonight. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/yawn.gif Bwaha

[Tyrant]

Ambassadors from the doomed nations of Atlantis and Jotunheim have come to us seeking peace as their foolish sovereigns realize just how great a mistake it was to challenge the Eternal Forest! We offer one of you this deal: Withdraw all of your forces from the Pangean peninsula permanently and immediately and we shall suffer you to live on in your own lands. Refuse and you will be ground beneath our frolicking hooves and your flesh shall feed the roots of the awakening forest! The first one to take the deal lives, the other's fate is sealed.

So speaks Justanax the Eternal, Lord of Suicides, Giver of Food

[StrictlyRockers]

I have played the next Caelum turn.

[chrispedersen]

Hey, anyone here from Abysia?

[Bwaha]

no. hunt 11 has told me to just go ahead and finish him off. he said he won't be able to use his computer for a while and just get it over with. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif i can verify this through my received posts. (i save them all) Bwaha

[Niarg]

So he decided not to be considerate and set himself to ai?
Can the host go in and set him to ai so we can get on with the game.

[Bwaha]

well in all fairness i think he's a gentleman. was minding his own business when a group of players landed on his head. wasn't rude or disagreable in any fashion, just new i think. don't hold it against him. i would play with him anytime he wanted. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Bwaha

[Niarg]

Admittedly, yes. Was it four of us that all attacked at once?
It's just frustrating that so many players have decided to do this when the game is moving along so quickly otherwise.

[Bwaha]

this is quickly? oh god please let it not be so!!! just kidding. Bwaha

[chrispedersen]

Oh hoh hoh! That sounds like confidence Bwaha - shall I go ahead and enter a turn for him?

<grins>

[Bwaha]

yeah go ahead. it will be fun to have a fight. anyone have any seige equipment? will buy some. Bwaha http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Bwaha]

that was bloody but great, thanks for the lesson. chrispedersen. i think i can make up the losses and conquer them faster because they sortied out of the castle. or was that ai??? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif Bwaha

[chrispedersen]

The earthquake failed to go off. Was quite annoying. Damn scripting.

He was losing troops to desertion and disease(insufficient money to pay)... I actually thought you had more.. you'd have been hard pressed to storm a defended castle with what you had.

[Bwaha]

yeah, what is the ratio attacker/defender that allows you to use gems? one of the most frustrating things i found was my mages would'nt cast rain. it caused more losses due to heat than was desired. LL

[Bwaha]

I gesture at my crystal ball, this thread is to low, it must rise...

[Bwaha]

I call on all nations that love life to rise up and strike the misguided joties. To war I cry, let no jotie survive, (well maybe a few to haul cargo and do menial tasks) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif Lord Lucky

[JimMorrison]

Joties? That sounds like a slur, my good man! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/redface.gif The people of Agartha cannot abide by such racist remarks towards the uncouth but still human(!) Jotunheimians. Not that we care, but our people have been discriminated against throughout history. Young Agarthans with corrective lenses getting teased by the younger races "hey two eyes!", it's indecent, and has led to both a decline in literacy, and an increase in inner-city crime.

Unfortunately, word is that there is a class-action suit being prepared against Eriu for their "Joties" remarks - Agarthan Minority vs the Erians. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/redface.gif

[Bwaha]

We agree that many of the younger races have the mistaken belief that the Argathan vision is impaired. but this is not true! we have come to the determination that your peoples eyesight is close to perfect. The logic of this is readly apparent, your people can see without any aids in total darkness. how can that improved? We have tried to imitate (with partial sucsess) your fine ability. so we are sorry if your people have been offended by our call to war. no offence intended. It is our belief that the nation of jotenheim has taken way more of land than is fair to the rest of us. there's many nations that feel the same way. So in closing it is our ardent hope that you will join in this war of justice. It is only fair that you get a portion of the prizes as well. Lord Lucky http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[JimMorrison]

While our statesmen would agree that Jotunheim has become quite large, our philosophers contemplate that in relation to the size of their citizens, they may not have overstepped their bounds. Unfortunately, we do still measure gold in pounds, and wine in gallons, and it does seem that there is a disparity in accounts - grossly in favor of the giants.

We shall have to deliberate further on this, Agarthan legal practices are far from swift or clear cut. You may expect a subpoena on the class action suit sometime in the next 35 to 37 years. In the meantime we shall endeavor to ponder how best to expand our interests - bounded by faithful and noble allies on all sides as we are.

[Bwaha]

We await such deliberations with concern. But as in conversing with the Ents, such things take time. But onto more pressing things. You the Jotoenheim have suppressed the independent provinces too long. Retreat to your lands of the south and we will be appeased. Tarry too long and our wrath will not be contained. Lord Lucky http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

[StrictlyRockers]

Caelum let's out a squawk. The war fares poorly atm.

[JimMorrison]

It was the squawk heard 'round the world. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/redface.gif That is one painful Province count in the graphs..... Time to call in..... CONDOR MAN?!

[chrispedersen]

My spy, before he was soo rudely dispatched was telling me that machaka was rolling up Riyallahs inland provinces. Considering that was all the way in the middle of the board... I sincerely did not know *who* to root for.

Somehow Ryalla in the wastlands was like.. well a fish out of water.

Just wanted to say... great game all!

[Bwaha]

My agents, who due to better magical stealth say much the same. the redistribution of the land is progressing quite well. looking at the graphs something happened to marignon. come on tell us the story of this great battle. someone has a tale to tell. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif LL

[chrispedersen]

A haggard emissary for the lion of Marignon comes out to address the congress of ambassadors, and specifically to greet the Eriuian ambassador.

Marignon is currently facing 700 Ermorian troops, with 300 more on the way. And these are not your usual undead. They are shadow vestrals, accompanied by archers. Lots and lots of archers.

However, ermor, while formidable, is the lesser foe. Marignon was attacked by surprise by Oceania.

By the way, oceania: We had a nap +3 which you never disavowed. Did you forget that? I distinctly remember a conversation a few turns ago, where you said

"Yes, I have Nap+3 with all my neighbors, and I must decide who to break it with." Obviously, you chose me, however, you did forget about the part about *notifying* me." You have been an honorable neighbor, and I believe you to be an honorable opponent.

Under the terms of the nap, I expect you to withdraw to your borders. Due to the exigencies of the war, I will take that as sufficent to satisfy our previous agreement - and I will look forward to the dogs of war. Oh - and I would also appreciate it if you would cease with the hurricanes, for the duration.

As for other matters Eriu, I would love to tell you that there was glorious battle. But there was not, merely battle! I can tell you only that plans are in place to deal with the matter, and I am confident of success.

Ermor crushed a neighbor of mine, whose last words were "I hope you crush that guy" - and so I shall endeavor to avenge vanheim's demise.

Ermor I shall attack unto my last breath. But I believe the knights of oceania sought to help their ally - which is an honorable thing to do. I sincerely believe the just forgot our peace treaty. And so being honorable I believe they will do their utmost to redress the matter.

Plans take awhile, so please excuse my disheveled appearance. And personal best wishes to the mrs.

[chrispedersen]

Hey guys:

I am going to postpone processing; as short as I can. I have to shut down, reload and redownload the modules.

So the Glory and EA-New servers will be down at 7pm. If I can avoid a processing delay, I will.

[fungalreason]

I haven't been able to connect to submit my turn.

[Hoplosternum]

Nor me.

[Bwaha]

My emmisary reports the same. LL

[chrispedersen]

Hey guys. Was working on this till 2am or so.
Dominions is up but it is unstable. Dominions will not unload. When it tries, it crashes tcp/ip stack.

search is ongoing, but at this moment at least you can enter turns.

[Bwaha]

Thanks for all your work, i seem to be able to connect, and process my turns. (i think) since the turn hasn't moved on i don't know if the computer is processing them. i missed a turn a bit ago, was this the problem? anyway no preasure. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Bwaha

[chrispedersen]

No, simple lightning hit. I keep saying I'm goign to set up a junk machine for hosting. I really need to do it.

[Tyrant]

My apologies for delaying the game, i thought the server was down.

Pangaea is once again free (for the moment), the giants of Jontenheim have been driven back by the forest aroused!

[JimMorrison]

Tyrant said:
My apologies for delaying the game, i thought the server was down.

Pangaea is once again free (for the moment), the giants of Jontenheim have been driven back by the forest aroused!




Ah, the mighty Phallodendron, and the Ginkgo Bilabia, both can be quite fearsome when, ermmmm, agitated.

[Niarg]

I'm going away for this weekend, I've submitted this turn but then can we delay the next turn until monday morning please.

[chrispedersen]

Game is postponed until monday.

[chrispedersen]

Hey guys.

I am in a bit of a quandry here. Per Niag's request, I agreed to postpone processing till monday. Everyone has turns in except Ermor. It is now past midnight on monday.

Ermor has been connected every time I check the server - yet has no turn posted.

I have usually set hosting time as midnight (with quickhost). He and I have been engaged in a vicious battle. So I don't want to make it seem unfair - yet at the same time I don't want to give him unfair leeway either.

I am therefore postponing this for an additional three hours, in case there is any question (and hope this seems fair to all concerned.)

Chris

[Bwaha]

The jotenheim are called to task, it is time for you to remove yourselves from the northern part of the world. Now our armys have found the mages and magics to confound you. Go now and save yourself. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[chrispedersen]

Hmmm I continue to learn the myriad ways to screw up hosting. Automatic updates: on.

Restarted the computer. Its back up.

On other news, I've gotten a PIII Win2000 Server box with 2000 gb of disk space, and I'm almost done setting it up.

I had hoped to finish it this morning. But I'm having problem with the SCSI array.

[fungalreason]

Bwaha said:
The jotenheim are called to task, it is time for you to remove yourselves from the northern part of the world. Now our armys have found the mages and magics to confound you. Go now and save yourself. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif



A messenger arrives before the Eriu throne bearing dire news. The heads of 14 Tien-Chi commanders (your ally) were found driven into pikes near the walls of your hastily erected fotress. Looking east, you see nothing but an ocean of blood, and you hear the drums of the approaching Jotun war machine in the distance.

[Bwaha]

After beheading this false messenger, we calmly remark, Thats what happens to those who venture into the sacred land of Tir. I gesture and the Illusion of the heads fade. He, I gesture at the head on a pike was a jotie spy/mage, they would not dare to show up in force here, so they sent an illusionist to create this sham. A hawk lands on my shoulder and says, "all is in readiness my Lord, the foolish giants are a broken and rotten force." I remark, those fools, I gave them the chance to return to their homes in peace. Send their widows the non-valuable dross that their bodies leave...I turn and return to the lab...
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif LC

[JimMorrison]

Well then. Oceania believes that in their last desperate hour, it is best to commit an act that does as much harm to themselves, as it does to everyone else in the entire world.

Humble Agartha is in a position to dispel this despicable Burden of Time. But we need assistance to do it expediently, and insure success.

If each affected nation could see clear to send 10 Astral Pearls, or whatever gems you can spare (we'll just alchemize to Pearls anyways), then hopefully next turn we will have the needed funds to save this world from its own doom.

[Bwaha]

Done and done. Here's mine. Come on fellas, the ageing will be worse. While my leaders are near immortal, the griping from my troops is a bummer. "I'm growing old before your eyes and your not ageing at all." Argtha thank you for this service. You also are one of the old races, so your gain will be minimal, execpt for a general feeling of good will. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif LC

[JimMorrison]

Bwaha said:
Done and done. Here's mine. Come on fellas, the ageing will be worse. While my leaders are near immortal, the griping from my troops is a bummer. "I'm growing old before your eyes and your not ageing at all." Argtha thank you for this service. You also are one of the old races, so your gain will be minimal, execpt for a general feeling of good will. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif LC



Old is right, my campaigning mages started complaining of arthritis the next day!

I can't claim that it's just a humanitarian act, only that we all suffer, so we all pay. The less who pay, the longer it takes to cast, and the more we all suffer. O.o

[zenphos]

10 gems submitted by machaka

[klagrok]

Well I came back from vacation and find Agartha, Marignon and Ryleh pathetically attacking me at the same time--you fools chose your fate.....heck Ill even send you ten gems http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Muhaaaaahaaaaaaaaa. Oh and liked that move last turn where you killed your allies troops under da sea Jim. Very nice to 'sea'. My regular idiots will die, but appears my other troops heal themselves up http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Bring it on!!!!!!! I wanna go out in style http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Bwaha]

Ouch, I just got stomped. From this time on I will refer to the joten as "Big Foot", because they are real *** kickers. Huge army at 180. So any curses or other hate put there will help alot, I will repay any who aid me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/Injured.gif LC

[JimMorrison]

klagrok said:
Well I came back from vacation and find Agartha, Marignon and Ryleh pathetically attacking me at the same time--you fools chose your fate.....heck Ill even send you ten gems http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Muhaaaaahaaaaaaaaa. Oh and liked that move last turn where you killed your allies troops under da sea Jim. Very nice to 'sea'. My regular idiots will die, but appears my other troops heal themselves up http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Bring it on!!!!!!! I wanna go out in style http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif



Well, my ally Marignon was in the middle of another war, and asked me if I could give him a hand because he was having malicious water rituals cast on him. He reasoned it was you rather than R'lyeh. While I was weighing my options, you attacked him.

The same turn that I messaged my timetable for assistance, R'lyeh contacted me, voicing his desire to split your empire with me. Well, that made me feel a lot better. <3

Not afraid of lil ol' Agartha are ya? We don't have access to all the pretty underwater things that you do. We are just simple one eyed cave dwellers.


And you like that fight? I was more amused by it than Chris was. >.> It was a bit of miscommunication there, but luckily it was mostly just money lost, not significant assets.

[chrispedersen]

Hey guys. Just getting back from Batteries, plus. I had to buy another UPS. Poor sucker sacrificed so that my computer might live... but the verdict is still out on the computer.

[chrispedersen]

As for being triple teemed Oceania - you should know.
You and your ally have been double teeming me alone for what .. 20 turns now?

And as I told you when you made your choice you backed the wrong pony. It took awhile to arrange, but you have your come uppance.

Surely, miscommunications happen between all allies. But I found it ironic - you forgot to mention that small miscommunication which is causing your ally to siege YOUR castle.

As for my troops - ahh the eternal difference between a just Marignon and a maniacal despot. Your depradacious Burden of Time is exacting a huge toll on leaders and troops of my nation.

We do not look upon our troops as 'regular idiots'. But rather heroes each in their own right - that have endured crisscrossing the wastes that are ermor in their zeal first to defend our homeland, and secondly to end the threat of a nation that is infact death incarnate. They were much afflicted and so drop like flies. We mourn every one.

It is said that Marignon is a splinter of the fallen empire. Yet upon that splinter, death has stubbed his toe.

Lastly - I understand why you flee from the armies of Ryalla and Agartha. I understand why you continue to rape my provinces and destroy my armies. Because you can beat me. But you can't beat them - and soon very soon they will divide your nation and remove your ability to build those healing troops of which you boast so strongly.

Best wishes...

[chrispedersen]

We wish the giants well in their endeavors.

[Tyrant]

Not able to connect.

[chrispedersen]

let me know..

[Tyrant]

It's ok now, thanks chris.

[klagrok]

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif I fear no one (except my wife http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif ) Bring on the one eyed wonders and insane fishy peeps....we shall enjoy crushing them--well until we are crushed. As for double teaming you, not while I was on watch. I like to horde my gems http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Bwaha]

Let it known, the Big Foot, otherwise known as Jotenheim are a generous foe, magnanimous in victory. I Lord of the Eriu agree to his terms... That rate of losses was simply unacceptable. Great is his might. Tein Chi would best be served by seeking terms as well.

[chrispedersen]

You have an urgent message regarding world domination.
Please report to the courtesy center for a message!

[JimMorrison]

So far, only 2 people have donated 10 pearls apiece in the name of not dying of old age in the immediate future.

The Agarthan people can be patient a short while more. If the situation does get resolved without the use of the pearls, they will be respectfully returned to their donors.

[Bwaha]

Yeah, keep the gems, consider it a good faith proposal... Less button pressing is good... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Niarg]

It seems you were not too desperate to dispel after all since until I killed Oceanias god she still had the global enchantment active. I hardly believe that you can have enough gems to cast arcane nexus and yet not enough to cast a simple dispel, you have decieved your way to get the gems required and give nothing back when asked.

Why should we spare the lives of your deceitful people?

[Bwaha]

Hmm, I'm curious, please continue... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[JimMorrison]

Niarg said:
It seems you were not too desperate to dispel after all since until I killed Oceanias god she still had the global enchantment active. I hardly believe that you can have enough gems to cast arcane nexus and yet not enough to cast a simple dispel, you have decieved your way to get the gems required and give nothing back when asked.

Why should we spare the lives of your deceitful people?



Pardon me while I feign understanding of your perspective.

The only reason that I didn't take the capital sooner, and end the global VERY early, was because you had 2 armies present, and I assumed your intent was to take the capital - and I was politely heading the other direction into less valuable lands.

So you take your armies, gobble up an impressive amount of territory with little resistance, and then beat me to the capital by 1 turn, getting much more gain than I had realized possible, AND claiming the capital, replete with gem income.

You will note, that previous to my casting, I offered the return of all (20) donated pearls, if the BoT were brought down without the use of my mages. Considering that the BoT was likely cast with at least 80 gems, and possibly over 100, I would have been footing 75-80% of the cost of casting, when it wasn't even hurting me as bad as it could have.

I'll even offer again, to return 15 pearls apiece to the 2 nations whom donated to the dispel. Do not blame me because no one else cared to invest in their own income and survival - just because I offer to perform a service that requires a fee, doesn't mean I am offering to pay the entire fee. If I had gotten 40-50 pearls donated, I would have been quite keen on getting the BoT down, covering half of the casting - and using a turn of my most valued mage's time - out of kindness to the rest of the world who have mostly been supporting of humble little Agartha over these last years.

As for R'lyeh, this is more than laughable. You sent me 10 (or was it 12) D gems to help me feel comfortable being the one who would likely face the bulk of Oceania's elite troops. In the usual terms of mercenary actions, and in simple money paid for services rendered - I agreed to enter the war if I had some D gems to summon Umbrals, you sent them, I attacked Oceania - that contract was fulfilled on both ends. Then you come to me, while sieging the capital that I was a bit eager to claim at that point, and you demand I hand over to you 2 provinces. I only have 5 provinces from that engagement, though I may end up with 1-2 more by the time I face the 200 elite troops that Oceania still has to my south. The rest of the lands were returned to Marignon who has owned them most of the game.

In any case, if you think that 2 provinces are worth 10-12 gems, you're insane. And if you think that refusal to give you 40% of my unimpressive war gains is justification for aggressive action towards Agartha, then you are a danger to everyone who you border, with your reckless warmongering.

[Bwaha]

This is getting better and better, at least there's a little banter going on. I just wish we were playing...

[chrispedersen]

It looks as if Marignon needs to go it alone, as I am used to. Marignon would like to purchase gems, of any kind, but especially astral pearls, for reasons you may be able to speculate on.

I offer 17.5 gold per gem, or 12.5 gp for blood. Please coordinate with me in advance, because while I hope to purchase significant quantities - becuause I need to coordinate the moneys spent.

[chrispedersen]

Speaking of the war with Oceania -

Hmm.. Pardon the wry face - but the two of you are argueing about oceania as if he is dead - whereas I lost another 300 troops, killing 40 of his knights - and still face 170 of them.

Plus another 100 killing ermors 2nd to last army.

I don't mind - over time I will finish off oceania's army (although I am concerned if the ai builds another castle)

But you both picked up 5 territories and castles - whereas if I am lucky I will get back to neutral. A little perspective please!

[Niarg]

Some people have this crazy idea of actually defending their capital so I would hardly say I was conquering lands without resistance. If anyone was doing that it was you, you took some lands to the south and then headed north as soon as you saw any army, why not defeat it when you saw it? Now I am blocked off from aiding you defeating Oceanias last army and you refuse to let me help as it would mean that I would take one or two provinces from you.

Furthermore, as you have cast one of the most powerful globals, I feel that I need to cancel the nap I once held with you, unless you return to each player the gems that you are stealing from them every turn.

[JimMorrison]

Considering that there was an enormous force of his capital only sacreds in the south, then no, I don't think he was really "defending his lands" from you in anything but a token sense.

And I turned my army around when the leader of my former ally informed me (somewhat rudely) that you had avoided the capital, and that heading there to kill the pretender was a higher priority than facing off with the army in the south.


I have cast a powerful global spell, sure. Someone dispelled one of my others, which I rather much fancied having up. Due to the actions of this thoughtless nation who has spent a small fortune in Pearls only to hinder the growth of such a peaceful people as mine - I certainly am not going to accept your ridiculous demands. I am sure you understand how the Nexus works, it steals nothing. You'd never see the gems that I get, it just happens that I run the bank now, nothing changes in your life at all. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

I have offered twice now to return Pearls to the *two* entire people who donated for the dispel. Neither has responded affirmatively, so while I understand that you and some others may be concerned, then I will point out some facts.

~ I've only taken 8 provinces from other nations this entire game - 3 of those were returned to Marignon.

~ I did not start this war myself, but was asked by two nations to join in, your own and Marignon.

~ R'lyeh on the other hand has been quite the little warmonger, and has become quite the little magemonger as well - some people may be a little disturbed by poor Agartha having the Nexus up - maybe they should be more worried what happens if R'lyeh annexes Agartha and recasts the Nexus themselves.


It seems to me that fear of the unknown is the only motivating factor for most people, as regards Agartha. Perhaps they should be more afraid of what IS known - about R'lyeh.

[Bwaha]

Well, what I know is both of you are good neighbors, at least to me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Niarg]

Why would R'Lyeh cast the Nexus? We have been kind and generous to our neighbours, giving aid when needed without demands for compensation. Casting the nexus would be quite out of character given how controversial it is, instead I shall work with my neighbours to take down these globals rather than hogging every single slot like you seem intent on doing..

[Bwaha]

Well in about twenty minutes we will know what happened... waiting for a new war in the west. What new methods of killing will be displayed? Will Rylah gain a bunch of new thralls? Will Argatha blade wind rylah to death? Stay tuned, folks more news coming... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[JimMorrison]

Niarg said:
...We have been kind and generous to our neighbours, giving aid when needed without demands for compensation...



Ummm, wait, what?



Glory
From: Niarg
And so the battle against Oceania is almost over and it comes to divide the spoils of war.

I request that the lands 92 and 77 be left to me and you may take all of the seas to the south of there. Having given you the death gems you asked for to begin your campaign, it would be nice if you ceded these lands to me at the end of the campaign.



I would be amused if you claimed this was not a "demand". I can unveil your angry reply to my refusal. If a denied request is met with violence, doesn't that classify that request as a demand? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

BTW, you are so polite when you demand things. I also liked how in your perturbation, you called the D gems "gifts in good faith". I'm having a hard time fathoming how one gives a gift, and then demands compensation.

But you're right, you're a pillar of the community, making war on numerous neighbors, and demanding payment for gifts. Definitely far more respectable behavior than that of Agartha, whose crimes include trying to protect their ally, and making good use of neglected or wasted resources. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Niarg]

I hardly see that as a demand, it was a request that you do not take the provinces that I left Oceania to take so that I could go after his capital.

Other than the blatant slander you are writing here I think the best proof that you are the poor neighbour is that your allies will not aid you and even those halfway across the map go out of their way to harm you.

I wonder if I will be attacked by anyone for "warmongering" or my harsh "demands" or if you are merely ensuring your isolation in this world.

[chrispedersen]

The Marignon pawnbroker

Demand exceeds supply - I've had far more people requesting gems than selling them. Soooo following basic supply side economics we'll try raising the prices to see if we can stimulate production.

So, as of this next turn Marignon will pay
25 for fire gems.
20 for Nature, Earth, Death
17.5 for water, air
15 for blood slaves (must be in quantities of 50)


Surely, someone needs a castle built somewhere? Troops to pay? Gambling losses to cover?

RSVP, via pm please.

Edit: Ah we've had some very nice interest. Thank you all very much. I can still cover a few more orders. Don't let your neighbor be the only one to get these great prices.

Due to quantities received, I can tell you that FIRE and EARTH will be down next turn.

[JimMorrison]

Niarg said:
I hardly see that as a demand, it was a request that you do not take the provinces that I left Oceania to take so that I could go after his capital.

Other than the blatant slander you are writing here I think the best proof that you are the poor neighbour is that your allies will not aid you and even those halfway across the map go out of their way to harm you.

I wonder if I will be attacked by anyone for "warmongering" or my harsh "demands" or if you are merely ensuring your isolation in this world.




No no, not really. First, you were on Oceania's capital already, you weren't "going after" it, you were sieging it. And while one of those provinces was neutral, the other was my only way south, after Marignon had his coastal provinces back.

And perhaps if my ally had offered the same deals in gold for gems from my Deep Well that he offers everyone else, we'd still be allies. Seems all I get in Glory are demands - sweetly wrapped up looking like polite requests, but in the end, demands that bear heavy consequences if not met.

That is fine, play it off ham-handed. I am pretty sure that people are only a bit scared of my spells, not of my nation. Agartha is clearly the smallest nation who is not currently being trounced (sorry Eriu and TC <3). I am just trying to be competitive, but apparently having a couple of nice globals is far superior to province count, income, gem income, army size, and research. I will keep that in mind next time, I was unaware that having nothing but Arcane Nexus, was superior to having everything but Arcane Nexus. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif So if it's so powerful, why doesn't everyone just concede? I am soooo scary over here.


Boo!

[chrispedersen]

A 24 hour delay has been requested. I'm leaving quickhost on in case john can process a turn.

[Niarg]

Well Jim, live and learn.

You should now know that
a)Yes all of those graphs are worthless, most people already know that
b)Casting Arcane nexus will annoy everyone
c)Hogging all the global slots is also a bad idea

And I now know that any requests I receive from you in the future should be treated as unfair demands since my requests are dealt with in that way.

But enough of this battle of words, we shall be at war soon enough...

[JimMorrison]

Hey just do the math next time first, I am not an unreasonable man.

10 gems for 2 provinces? That's pretty much going to be a no every single time - I don't think I'm alone on that one. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

I'd probably have a lot more sympathy were it not for the Nexus, sure, but having played R'lyeh quite a bit, all I can say is that they should be always feared - regardless of who has or has not globals.

[johnarryn]

Hey folks. Due to some personal matters, I am forced to withdraw from all the games I am currently playing. I've chosen to set myself to AI (which I normally hate to do) rather than look for a substitute because I don't want to delay the game any longer than I already have. Thank you for your understanding.

[fungalreason]

I'm going to be out of town this weekend. I'll probably be able to connect and play a few turns, just not as regularly. Is it possible to move to a 48h quickhost until monday?

[chrispedersen]

Hey John

I'm sorry for you real world difficulties. Thank you for gaming with us - and best wishes in all your future endeavors.

[chrispedersen]

Starting Friday, per request, we will move to a 48 hour quickhost. We will resume with a 24 hour schedule monday.

Chris

[chrispedersen]

This upcoming turn, Marignon will pay:

25 for death
20 for fire, astral
17.5 nature, air, water, blood
(Blood in quantities of 50)

[Calahan]

All

If everyone was awilling, I could step in to take the place of johnarryn as Atlantis rather than having them turned AI (best wishes as well John in getting whatever problems you have sorted out).

I was originally due to play Atlantis in this game, but John kindly volunteered to sub me on turn 2 when I had computer problems. I still have the password and everything, so the change-over would be instant.

Let me know what you all think.

Calahan

[fungalreason]

That's perfectly fine with me. A sub would be much better than someone going AI this late in the game.

[chrispedersen]

Back on 6/17 I wrote (regarding Tyrant subbing):

"I don't mind tyrant subbing, if you think he will. I have searched for a replacement without any luck. I promised a 24 hour delay.

I am going to set the game to host at 11pm EST. If he indicates he will host by 10pm, I will give him a couple of extra hours to familiarize and send in a turn.

Otherwise, I'm going to set it to AI.

<font color="red">In the future; As I got no real takers on subbing, I am going to set all to AI without searching for subs. </font>

Best

Chris "


I wrote this, at the time to indicate how I as game administrator was going to handle substitutions going forward. And I did it consistently in both of the games I was hosting.

I wrote this to preclude the possibilities of conflicts of interests. What would happen if someone quit next to Ryallah, or Jotunheim, me, or anyone. Because I did not want there to be issues of favoritism in how long the game was delayed. Should nations allied with, have a say in whether a substitution was allowed? What about friends?

I'm glad I wrote this, because it gives me a policy to follow that was written and (at least tacitly) accepted over a month ago.

In the future, if I host again, the policies on substitutions will be more specifically debated and posted on startup. However, with apologies to Calahan, at the present I can only go with the policy as I wrote it; and which was already followed in practice by how we treated Ermor and Oceania.

I am going to set all to AI without searching for subs.

Best wishes..


Chris

After thinking about this all day, I have concluded that my earlier position was wrong. The integrity of the game is better preserved by allowing Calahan to sub.

Judging from the charts and my in-game discussions with john, his position is solid, and the disruption caused by going AI would be larger than the disruptions caused to individual players by changing the player.

I am going to delay hosting a day, to allow callahan to learn the positions (and to give others a chance to opine).
Best

[fungalreason]

You must not be aware of the lovely status page from matryx. It looks like there's still 12 hours left.

http://dom3.matryx.org.uk/game.php?game=19

[JimMorrison]

I wasn't sure this would qualify as searching. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

But it might get complicated, John's turn most certainly has him setting himself to AI, so if that turn processes, the point becomes moot.

[chrispedersen]

Let the games begin!
Well after a 24 hour delay just to frazzle bwaha = )

[chrispedersen]

Hey.. miscellaneous question:
Caelum was eliminated.. why is the computer waiting on a turn for him?

[Bwaha]

Just to frazzle me... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Tyrant]

It's a little glork, the turn you are eliminated you still get .trn and the host counts you as still in for one last turn. Most players do not realize this and you end up waiting for QH unless they connect to upload their blank .2h.

[fungalreason]

Could you bump the time for hosting up to 48 hours? It looks like it's at 16, and I most certainly won't be able to get another turn in by then.

[Niarg]

It looks like I am also in need of a sub, I will try and get my turns in until I can find one but if anyone can find a permenant sub asap I'd be grateful.

[Bwaha]

Bump, darn it, whats going on?

[JimMorrison]

Oh, right! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

In the interest of keeping Bwaha from going mad with curiosity, and as a public service to all involved, Agartha is pleased to announce the slaying of the great Void Lord, the false god of R'lyeh.

In a surprise upset, an enormous force of Illithids and Meteroite Guards, led by that titanic monstrosity of the deeps, and starving like crazy from their extended siege, were mercilessly hacked down by a much smaller but much better fed (we eat rocks, well, and sand, mmmmm sand) force of sacred Agarthan warriors. The casualties were nearly 10-1 in Agartha's favor, far surpassing all estimates whose sum consensus was actually "Agartha is probably going to lose that fight, and it'll be all downhill from there".


In other news, the market for giant sized shoes continues to grow. Jotun statesman Thorgrumm Bjorfsfjord said this, "Jotunheim continues to dominate the casual businesswear market, however we can't make a good pair of shoes to save our lives, and our population has been growing at an unprecedented rate.".

When asked to comment on the reasons for this regional inundation of giantkin, Bjorfsfjord could not be reached.

[Hoplosternum]

fungalreason said:
Could you bump the time for hosting up to 48 hours? It looks like it's at 16, and I most certainly won't be able to get another turn in by then.



Yes another vote for 48 hours here http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif I have staled enough http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[fungalreason]

Hoplosternum said:

fungalreason said:
Could you bump the time for hosting up to 48 hours? It looks like it's at 16, and I most certainly won't be able to get another turn in by then.



Yes another vote for 48 hours here http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif I have staled enough http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif



I'm back home now, so I can probably manage. But the turns are starting to take a considerable amount of time, so I'd be happy with 48h either way.

[chrispedersen]

Guys, I am having problems on this site. A lot of times, my posts don't go. And for example, when I scan the multiplayers folders for active threads - this folder does not show. Until I go in and find there are posts I haven't read.

Anyway, after this turn hosts I guess we will move it to a 48 hour host. Now the giants REALLY have me scard. I wonder what takes so long. Doesn't take me more than an hour or 2

[Niarg]

Ok, I've managed to find a sub for R'Lyeh, with immediate affect Slobby will be in change of the mighty R'Lyeh starspawns.

[chrispedersen]

Wow Niarg - sorry to see you go.
Can you private me your email and his so I can update the notification?

[chrispedersen]

when the server is reset is automatically goes back to 24 hours.

Much as I was eager for this turn, I extended it 24 hours as it was supposed to be. =(

[Bwaha]

can we go to 48?

[chrispedersen]

I was the victim of a HUGE bug this turn that may well have cost me any chance I had in the game.

Sigh.

Game is now set to 48.

[Tyrant]

Pangaea has at last fallen, nothing left but a siege. I've set them to AI. Good luck to the enemies of my enemies, thanks for the fun, I hope to see y'all in a future game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[chrispedersen]

Thanks Tyrant! You did AWESOME. I don't think anyone expcected Pan to last as long as it did.

[Calahan]

I second Chris in thoroughly applauding Tyrants's play. Although I've only been playing as Atlantis for a few turns, I did look in on this game for a sneaky peak somewhere about turn 25-30, and at that stage Pangaea looked completely dead, so to have lasted another 25-30 turns was a truly amazing effort. Certainly hope I don't have to fight a 'fair' war against Tyrant in any of my games anytime soon :-)

[fungalreason]

Yes, very impressive Tyrant. Those were some fun battles.

[Slobby]

Greetings,

It seems some of the info that Niarg has left me regarding relations with the neighbors of R'lyeh is not entirely accurate! Imagine my surprise ,as I sat down today to review the latest reports in my nice new office with the view of kelp in bloom, when I hear that the flamboyantly dressed fleshy sacks of water attacked my wonderfully pink, tentacled, and adorable people after first being told by my predecessor that our two nations had 'good' relations!

Seeing now that my intelligence reports on the international relations of R'lyeh may be be a bit too vague, and perhaps entirely misleading, I beseech the other nations of this land, to notify me of any and all previous agreements, alliances, non aggression pacts, etc, or maybe even a nice letter complimenting the people of R'lyeh on their wonderfully soft, slimy, pink tentacles.

Marignon and Agartha, I feel it's safe to say where our relations stand at the moment, although if you want you can send the complimentary letter, maybe it'll make the widows of the slain illithids feel better. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

PS. Eriu, it looks like you'll be sharing a border with Marignon in the near future...

[chrispedersen]

Three stealthy commanders with ethereal crossbows.
A dozen (well before fatalities) star children assassins..
4 Greater Vastnesses
A Teleporting and Master Enslaving Illithid Hero.

Never have I feared Sushi so much! Fashionably attired or otherwise. Still not quite as much as the giants.. but to quote Othkar Wilde - Fear is the sincerest form of flattery.

[Bwaha]

Wow, I,m glad I'm not in this fight.

[JimMorrison]

Bwaha said:
Wow, I,m glad I'm not in this fight.



Well, it only gets worse. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Calahan]

Notice to All

I've now happily settled in with Atlantis, and managed to take care of Pangaea (pending the conquest of the Pan capital). But now that my obvious first task is almost completed, I'm going to be flying blind as to what the hell Atlantis are doing in this game.

My situation is very similar to Slobby's (see above). I have no idea what current agreements others may have with Atlantis, and neither do I know who my friends and foes are supposed to be. I'm guessing Atlantis has some NAP's in place since I have at least 2 neighbours who I have borders with, but I have hardly seen a single one of their troops.

So, after a bit of thinking, the best thing for me to do at this point is to cancel all the current agreements, alliances, NAP's etc that Atlantis may have, and (consider) forming new ones using my own judgement rather than someone else's. (although that in no way questions Johnarryn's fine judgment)

No-one should worry about this though, since I'm not looking to start a load of wars next turn with back-stabbing attacks etc. I'm just looking to wipe the whole Atlantis diplomacy slate clean, and start afresh. Atlantis needed a new ruler, therefore Atlantis needs new agreements to go with this ruler.

So to this end, I'm going to 'assume' that I have a 3-turn NAP with all other nations (expect Pangaea of course) and I hereby give notice to them all that I wish to cancel these NAP's. I apologise in advance though if any of the NAP's that do actually exist with Atlantis are longer than the standard 3 turns. For example 6 turns, 10 turns, 12+ turns, etc.

Also, if anyone wishes to contact me to discuss new diplomatic options with Atlantis, then please feel free to do so :-) I have no idea if there were any previous grudges anywhere that involved Atlantis, but there's a new boss in town now, so all bets are off, and everyone is equal in his eyes.

Calahan, King of Atlantis

[JimMorrison]

Do you feel lucky?

Well do ya??

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[chrispedersen]

At the time the game was supposed to host, the machaka nor R. had posted turns. I delayed the game 2 hours, to give them time to post.

[Slobby]

chrispedersen said:
At the time the game was supposed to host, the machaka nor R. had posted turns. I delayed the game 2 hours, to give them time to post.



I got my turn in with 8 minutes to spare! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Slobby]

The turn hosted, and now it says that there are 4 hours until the next turn is due!

[chrispedersen]

Yes, I fixed that slobby.

With 2 hours to go, you and machaka hadn't posted a turn. So I delayed it 4 hours. Once the turn hosted I reset it to 48 hours.

[chrispedersen]

Please be advised: Server hosting will be spotty over the next few days as south florida prepares for Hurricane Fay.

[JimMorrison]

Please be advised: Server hosting will be spotty over the next few days as south florida prepares for Hurricane Fay.


Maybe we should just set to a long quickhost, to make sure there's no issues? Can go back once the storm is past, and hopefully it's a gentle..... hurricaning. O.O

[chrispedersen]

Hey guys,

I just received notification that Glory hosted, inappropriately. I know when I checked this morning it had 11 hours to go - and I know that I (and at least several other people) have not submitted turns.

When I get home from work I will reset the turn. Please hold off until then.



Best

chris

Edit: Huh. I have no explanation for the notification. Game does not look to have hosted.

[chrispedersen]

Nevermind. it was bravenewworld that hosted.
Need more sleep.

[Bwaha]

I just lost my best friend of more than 20 years. I request a 72 hour hold. I just need to mourn.

[chrispedersen]

No problem Bwaha -- and my condolences.
I will change the time tonight - if you need more let me know.

Chris

[JimMorrison]

That's rough, Bwaha. I'll have a cider in his honor. <3

[JimMorrison]

Well, I just staled..... I thought Bwaha asked for an additional 72 hours, rather than a 72 hour turn. :S

[JimMorrison]

Wow, Armageddon. So, was it R'lyeh, being bitter and spiteful as they fall, or was it Jotunheim, gambling that an all thug military is lower upkeep than everyone else?

My money is on R'lyeh, in which case, classy move..... considering it doesn't improve your odds of survival in the slightest.

[fungalreason]

It wasn't me. I'm not entirely convinced it was R'lyeh either. There are several heavy astral nations left in the game.

[Bwaha]

Hi, is tein still controlled by a human?

[fungalreason]

Hi, is tein still controlled by a human?

No, he went AI several turns ago

[JimMorrison]

It wasn't me. I'm not entirely convinced it was R'lyeh either. There are several heavy astral nations left in the game.

I am sort of confused by your reasoning. Perhaps you have a suspect of some kind? If not, then I'm not sure you need to be entirely convinced. :p Seeing as how R'lyeh is the only one who has demonstrated the ability to Wish, and is badly losing their war now - and you have the gem income to be capable of Wishing by now.

I am quite inclined to believe that it is R'lyeh, myself.

[chrispedersen]

Hey, since
1. the llamaserver is down (and we don't know when its coming up)
2. we don't know if they are patching
3. its labor day weekend - can we adjourn till Monday evening. I don't want to be surprised by a turn being due.

[fungalreason]

Hey, since
1. the llamaserver is down (and we don't know when its coming up)
2. we don't know if they are patching
3. its labor day weekend - can we adjourn till Monday evening. I don't want to be surprised by a turn being due.

Fine by me.

Llamaserver has already been updated to the new patch I think (I attempted to open a turn file shortly before it was taken down, and it told me I was on an older version).

[fungalreason]

I'm unable to connect. Also, are we updating to 3.20?

[chrispedersen]

I'm unable to connect. Also, are we updating to 3.20?

Server is back up - and yes version 3.20.
And thankfully, it fixes the graphics crashing bug that 3.17 introduced for geoforce cards!

Chris

[Hoplosternum]

I have switched Pythium to AI. I made a lot of mistakes early on and I have missed many many turns over the game leading to an isolated and hopeless position.

With no allies or even anyone I speak to in the game for the past couple of months :p it has become increasingly pointless to log in and spend time on turns in this game that holds no prospects or interest for me.

Good luck to the rest of you. I doubt the AI will respect the one NAP I have but you never know!

[JimMorrison]

Take care, Hop! Hope you get a better position in the next one. 8 )

[chrispedersen]

Guys,

I downed the server as a huge bug has arisen, and I need player input on how to resolve it.

A SC of mine went into combat, carrying several artifacts.
He retreated from combat. He was an airbreathing unit, with, in addition to the artifacts, had a sea kings goblet.

Despite having available sea provinces to retreat into, the computer killed him "retreating into enemy territory".

First, this would allow players to build artifacts I should not have lost; secondly, any of these artifacts that were found would go into computer control, making my conquest there of difficult.

I am going to send the game file to illwinter for verification. I do not do this lightly.

What I would propose to do is to rerun the turn to a case where he did not unjustifiably die on retreat.

Suggestions or comments appreciated.

[Calahan]

Probably a stupid question Chris (since you're not exactly a newbie) but was it a case of a SC teleporting in during the magic phase, but you not capturing the relevant retreat provinces until the movement phase? I know this caught me out once or twice in my early days.

I have also noticed several times during SP games when a commander with a Ring of Water Breathing has died because he wouldn't retreat underwater even though he could have. It almost exclusively happens when the battle is on land, as retreating water to water is never a problem. No idea if this is a bug, WAD or ??? I've just learned not to trust it and just play around it.

Maybe ask Edi to kindly take a look at the file and give his opinion on it (if you haven't done so already), and delay the game for a few more days until you get a judgement/answer.

I personally wouldn't be the biggest fan of re-running the turn, and would definitely vote against it. I engaged Pythium in many provinces last turn, had a lot of battles as a result, and won some that were less than 50/50. On top of this I had a few other 'nice' non-battle things happen as well, so Atlantis wouldn't be too happy at all if an excellent turn all round got taken away from them. But the majority decides I guess.

[chrispedersen]

Probably a stupid question Chris (since you're not exactly a newbie) but was it a case of a SC teleporting in during the magic phase, but you not capturing the relevant retreat provinces until the movement phase? I know this caught me out once or twice in my early days.

I have also noticed several times during SP games when a commander with a Ring of Water Breathing has died because he wouldn't retreat underwater even though he could have. It almost exclusively happens when the battle is on land, as retreating water to water is never a problem. No idea if this is a bug, WAD or ??? I've just learned not to trust it and just play around it.

Maybe ask Edi to kindly take a look at the file and give his opinion on it (if you haven't done so already), and delay the game for a few more days until you get a judgement/answer.

I personally wouldn't be the biggest fan of re-running the turn, and would definitely vote against it. I engaged Pythium in many provinces last turn, had a lot of battles as a result, and won some that were less than 50/50. On top of this I had a few other 'nice' non-battle things happen as well, so Atlantis wouldn't be too happy at all if an excellent turn all round got taken away from them. But the majority decides I guess.

No, this is a simple case of moving into an adjacent water territory, from a water territory and failing to be able retreat back to the original territory. No other enemy troops, no other enemy actions.

I have already sent the original game file and made it available to edi and kristoff.

[fungalreason]

I don't really mind either way.

[Calahan]

Any news yet Chris?

Should we all start doing our turns under the assumption that the game will continue as is, or will the game be delayed until the potential re-run issue is resolved? Mainly asking because I don't want to spend an hour or so doing my turn only to find out it was all for nothing.

[fungalreason]

Yes please reset the timer once a decision has been reached. I also don't want to spend time on a turn that might be rolled back.

[chrispedersen]

Edi has confirmed he has gotten the turn. He has asked Johan to look at it. So as a bug question matters proceed.

However, as an internal matter none of the players have raised an issue, so I propose to leave the turn as is.

IE. Yes, use this turn, and I will reset the timer to 48 hours (tonight) to give people time to do their turns.

[chrispedersen]

mapmove: bad unr

The only thing I can think of did every one *delete* their .trn and download it again when they connected?

I am sending info to illwinter in case its something else.

Chris

[fungalreason]

The turn wasn't rolled back was it? I never delete my .trn files and haven't seen any issues before.

[chrispedersen]

Heres the sequence:

-Turn processes (late, estern time.)
-I notice error, send out msg about bug, crash the server,
(while Eriu was getting his turn) Don't want to deal with it -
Go to sleep.
-When I get up, no objections, reprocess turn, put server back
up. The only people that might have bad turns are me and eriu (no one else has retrieved turns).
-Turns submitted
-Host processes, crashes with Nagok msg.
-Post new message on forum, send log file to edi.
-Here is where we are now.

[fungalreason]

"mapmove: bad unr" sounds like it's an issue with some unit moving more spaces than is allowed or something like that. I'll double check my turn later tonight to see if I notice anything amiss.

[chrispedersen]

Here are edi's comments from today:
Patched to 3.20? I presume the answer is yes.
What mods are enabled?
Do you have scouts or otehr stealth troops moving more than one province per turn while sneaking? Are any of them flying?

Make a backup save of the game and try fiddling around with the movement orders of sneaking and hiding units you have and then rehost. When it goes away (and it should), make note of what you did. It might be helpful in conjunction with the log.

I experienced the same problem with a v3.19 game during the beta test and it was caused by a black harpy moving three provinces one turn and hiding the next. When I made the harpy move again, the turn hosted fine. At the time I was running CBM Pretenders 1.3, BI 2.1 and Worthy Heroes 1.8.

This may be related to something with a mod going wrong during hosting or something to do with move order validation, but I don't know for certain.

[chrispedersen]

Fungal,

The problem is in your turn file. I processed the game absent one player at a time game ran fine until I processed yours.

Edi would like you to try the stealth/move thingie, and document what you do, to try to fix a bug. This is going to suck because the loop back cycle - you change a few things, I run it.. you change a few things ... bleh.

[fungalreason]

Ok, I'll check and see if it's anything obvious first.

[fungalreason]

I don't see anything. I reissued the order commands for all my sneaking units. That should at least narrow it down or rule that out.

[chrispedersen]

still crashes.

[fungalreason]

I haven't been able to connect to upload the changed turn yet.

[chrispedersen]

sorry.. downed it to do the test

[fungalreason]

ok submitted it now

[Bwaha]

Works now, Lets rock:D

[chrispedersen]

Sorry Bwa, love the enthusiasm .. but not factual.
fungal - it is still crashing - and I saw a brief flash that seemed to say flying units.

Following in line with what edy said ---.. flying and stealthy?

[fungalreason]

I've change some of the moves for my flyers. Perhaps that will do something. I don't have any stealthy fliers moving this turn I think.

[chrispedersen]

Well it didn't have any message about flyers.
Crashed right after horrors, then movement.

Can you speak with edi directly?

[fungalreason]

Sent him a PM. I've also changed up the orders a bit so that none of my units are set to "hide" anymore. Let me know if that fixes it.

The only other thing I can think of after that is to try changing it so that none of the sneaking guys move more than one space.

[Edi]

All right, I'm posting here so this is visible to everyone. If I'm reading the log right, the problem happens when someone or something is moving from province 132 (Jagged Climb) to province 146 (Vale of Swords). I don't know who's holding it, but whoever it is can either post here or send me a PM and list everything that does move from there or is sitting on its backside. Not interested in unit names, only unit numbers and what quantity of each unit ID is there (both commanders AND regular units!). Make special note if there are any heroes there, because they are modded and if it's a mod causing the problem, this could help narrow it down.

Chris, if you haven't already, send the game files (the whole lot, fatherland and all turn files) to Johan to the Illwinter info address. I'm sending the log to him. He can then examine it. The corrupt turn file is especially important. This bug has never appeared before version 3.18 to my knowledge, so it may well be related to the move order validation fixes mentioned on the progress page.

[fungalreason]

The only thing I have related to those two provinces is a scout in 146.... he's moving to a different place though. I can try changing where he's going it if no one else has units moving from 132 to 146

[Edi]

I asked Johan about the log thing by email. His response:

The log does not tell me what caused it. I'd have to reproduce it to figure out what caused it.

So get cracking on getting the game files to Illwinter if you want this solved. Neither he nor I can do anything else unless that happens. And they need to be a set of files that actually causes the crash.

[chrispedersen]

Thanks edi - I just got your message.
I'm at work its 10 pm. I will try to send the game files tonight.

The only thing I know, is that if I delete fungals turn and try to process - it succeeds. If I include it it fails.

[Edi]

Just make sure you explain things clearly and in enough detail there so that he can see what happens and doesn't need to do unnecessary work. Include the WH mod file as well.

[chrispedersen]

Just make sure you explain things clearly and in enough detail there so that he can see what happens and doesn't need to do unnecessary work. Include the WH mod file as well.

Doh, at 4 am I did none of those things. I'll resend an explanation, and the WH mod. But seeing what happens is easy. Try to host and it crashes.

[fungalreason]

Chris, did you try re-running it after the last set of changes I did? Also it looks like you have an army in the province Edi mentioned (132). Are any of those units going to 146?

[chrispedersen]

Chris, did you try re-running it after the last set of changes I did? Also it looks like you have an army in the province Edi mentioned (132). Are any of those units going to 146?

Sorry I forgot to update you fungal.
Yes I tried to run it after your last set of changes. No luck.
I also tried again stopping all units moving from 132 to 146. No luck.

There isn't even a particularly interesting unit in 132. Commander and 3 priests. The commander has gotten 6 afflictions from being diseased - so his troops exceed his leadership
but that often happens with priests etc for random events.

I guess I can try dumpting the units into the province.

[fungalreason]

It still seems like it would have to be something of mine if you can remove my turn and it works. I don't have anything in 132 though.

One thing I did the previous turn was to move a bunch some units that only had mapmove 1 down two spaces with the flying ship. They're seiging this turn. Could that have something to do with it? As far as I know that's a valid move, but I've never used that item before.

I've had commanders in MP games before with more units under them than their leadership will normally allow and haven't seen any issues like this before. So I think it's unlikely that will fix it either.

[Edi]

It still seems like it would have to be something of mine if you can remove my turn and it works. I don't have anything in 132 though.

One thing I did the previous turn was to move a bunch some units that only had mapmove 1 down two spaces with the flying ship. They're seiging this turn. Could that have something to do with it? As far as I know that's a valid move, but I've never used that item before.

I've had commanders in MP games before with more units under them than their leadership will normally allow and haven't seen any issues like this before. So I think it's unlikely that will fix it either.

The flying ship could very well be it. The move order validation fixes in the last patch prevent force marching (using a commander with move & patrol orders to move units farther than their stratmove would allow). It is conceivable that if it was not accounted for, it could cause problems. It may be part of the reason, but it's not the whole reason, as when I had the bug, it happened around turn 6 or 7. No flying ship then.

[fungalreason]

I've changed it so that everything at the place where the flying ship is moving somewhere else. It also occurs to me that I had some skratti there that moved in wolf form last turn (so they could move through a forest with the forest survival bonus) and then changed shape for storming a castle this turn, so that may be it too.

Let me know if that works. If possible I'd rather not have my guys move away, but it's easier to rule it out if I move everything.

[chrispedersen]

I will rerun the turn this evening and let all knwo.

Sorry guys .. been working 20 hours a day the last 3 days..

[chrispedersen]

No, that did not fix it.
Edi, any news from johan?

[JimMorrison]

Sounds like this turn is just the mother of all bug-checks for this movement resolution fix. Got stealthy units, a flying ship, commanders with too many units under them, commanders moving in altered shapes. Did I miss anything? Were there monkeys involved? :p

[Edi]

No, that did not fix it.
Edi, any news from johan?

No. He is a quiet sort of fellow, not given to idle chit-chat, and this is something that may well take time. So we can only wait. I expect mention of the fix will appear on the progress page before it appears anywhere else (including my inbox).

[Bwaha]

The 3.2 patch has a problem with the the flying boat. It worked fine with the previous patch but I just tried to use it sp and its broken. Hope this helps...:D

[fungalreason]

I put the ship on a a different commander and I'm having him move just 1 space to a different place. Perhaps that will do it.

[JimMorrison]

The 3.2 patch has a problem with the the flying boat. It worked fine with the previous patch but I just tried to use it sp and its broken. Hope this helps...:D


I've been using the Flying Ship in another game to ferry summons around since the patch and had no problems so far with it.

[chrispedersen]

If the ship is on a stealthy commander, perhaps thats the problem.

Do you guys just want to back this up 2 turns and try again?

Chris

[Edi]

The 3.2 patch has a problem with the the flying boat. It worked fine with the previous patch but I just tried to use it sp and its broken. Hope this helps...:D
Why is this not in the bug discussion thread?! If there is new data like this, it needs to be posted where it is guaranteed to be seen or it will be overlooked.

If it has something to do with stealth flyers, or a specific item, you cannot count on me reading any threads in the MP forum unless I'm participating in a particular game. I'll see what Johan thinks of this.

[Bwaha]

Sorry edi, My bad, Do you want me to post this on the bug thread?:D

[chrispedersen]

Due to the kind efforts of Johan, I expect the game will be underway shortly. I can't say anything more than that.

Please review your positions, brush out the cobwebs. I will be sending a notify via blat when the game resumes.

Good Luck!

[chrispedersen]

Let the Games begin! Or game

[fungalreason]

Excellent, I had just about given up on this. Just curious, any idea what the problem was? Mainly so I can avoid doing it again, if it was something I did.

Now if I could only remember what sinister plans I had in store for my enemies in this one ;)

[chrispedersen]

Excellent, I had just about given up on this. Just curious, any idea what the problem was? Mainly so I can avoid doing it again, if it was something I did.

Now if I could only remember what sinister plans I had in store for my enemies in this one ;)

No idea. I believe comment will be withheld for awhile.

[chrispedersen]

Hey guys:

Just to let you all know:

We have hit another bug in Dominions, that is hard coded, and there isn't anything we can do about it (although HOW we hit that limit is a good question.

There is a limit of 150K units and 9k commanders. New commanders summoned/recruited etc will probably *not* have the magic paths to which they would normally be entitled.

Now, WHO has the 9000 leaders is beyond me.
But just wanted to tell everyone so they would understand theres a good chance their spectral mages, tartarians, troll kings etc... will not work.

And .. is there anything we want to do about it as players?

[fungalreason]

I really don't see how it's possible for there to be that many. I'd guess my own total might be in the hundreds. 9k is a massive amount. For example, the big game had 65 players on a huge map (~900 provinces) they're on turn 63 and still going. I'm assuming they haven't hit the limit.

We're only on turn 77 on a much smaller one (~270) with only 9 players/AI still left. Recruiting a commander from EVERY province would even take 30 turns before that limit was reached, assuming none were ever killed.

Perhaps some of the players that are now AI, but haven't yet been finished off have a ton of scouts everywhere or something? Maybe once one of them is finished off it will be safe to summon again?

[Calahan]

To be honest, I'm struggling to find a good reason not to suggest awarding this game to Marignon with a "well played" card attached. Although not sure if this appears somewhat ungrateful to the time spent, and the fine efforts of, Chrispedersen, Edi, Johan, KO, all those at Illwinter, and those unmentioned here, who did us players a great favour in getting the game running again :)

But my take on the game as is stands though is that Marignon+Agartha have an alliance of some sorts, which is fine, but even if the remaining nations teamed up against them, I'm very doubtful of any success in the end. Agartha has had the Nexus up for absolutely ages now (wonder if it's actually a Dom MP record?) and I can't see how it can ever be downed. Even if it was somehow dispelled, I'm pretty sure JM is a good enough player to have a stash of Astral gems waiting in reserve to put it straight back up again. And add infinitum for all other attempts to take it down. And if this game comes down to a gem attrition war, either via global casting or wish/summons casting, then Marignon+Agartha will win hands down due to the "Wishing for Gems + Nexus" tactic.

I'm happy to keep playing if there is still likely to be some mystery or surprises left in this game, or if Agartha and Marignon are likely to turn on each other at any point. But if it's just going to be a matter of Marignon+Agartha allied until nobody is left, and then claiming a valid joint/aided victory or something, then I personally would prefer not to spend perhaps 50+hrs over 30+ turns to reach a result that is looking obvious and unstoppable at the moment.

I don't mind spending my freetime on this game, and I will always fight until the last in my games if I know it might have an effect on the overall outcome. But pointlessly continuing a game where the winner is already very obvious is something else again. As that I would consider a waste of time.

Please let me know what you all think of awarding Marignon or Marignon/Agartha some sort of victory at this point. Or if not, tell me what realistic hope anyone else has of winning that I'm missing.

As to what we do about the unit/commander limit. Don't know to be honest. I'd struggle to believe there are 9k of commanders on the map though.

[chrispedersen]

Yeah thats the thing that mistifies me.. I have maybe 700 commanders I guess. Yet even if everyone had the same number...
that still doesn't get us to 9000.

As for the efforts of edi, johan etc: - it did pay off in discovering a bug. And my thanks to them.

[fungalreason]

I'm fine with calling it quits. I have a few tricks left, but it's unlikely I can make a difference at this point. The nexus plus their alliance decided the game long ago.

[JimMorrison]

To be honest, if we called the game now, I'd feel a little disappointed. :p

I've done all of my fighting all game underwater. It's depressing and annoying really. Agartha is somewhat amphibious, but really, underwater battles are just not very exciting. So, I've got some neat toys ready to roll, that only work above the surface, and that I haven't had the chance to subject a human to. :angel

Of course, I'd never adamantly argue against an ending that were somehow in my favor. ;) Not just because I like that outcome, but I'm not going to be the "NO, you have to let me stomp you into the ground!" guy. If people surrender, they surrender, that's life.

I do think that there's a lot that is still up in the air in this game, though the Marign-garthan alliance is rather powerful. I honestly think more people would have more fight left in them, if it weren't for the Burden of Time and Armageddon. My income seems to be down about 40% or so from what it would have been, and that makes recruitment and upkeep a painful exercise. I don't know how I would feel about all that, if I didn't have all these gems. :o

[chrispedersen]

Unlike Jim,

I'd like to call the game, either with a victory or a shared victory. Even more than he has, I've been fighting underwater, and I have to concur.. that is *REALLY* no fun - first with oceania, and then with ryallah. I have to guess I'd be at LEAST twice as effective fighting above water. None of Marignon's fire spells work underwater, really.

However, I will of course do what the majority want.

The only thing that is a concern to me is that with this summoning bug, I don't see how going forward isn't irreparably damaged - aka buying or recruiting units will bear no relationship to what you actually bought... More or less, positions are mostly fixed: Most of the Elemental royalty are out, and a lot of the unique summons.
Seems like an * regardless of how we decide it.

[fungalreason]

Yeah sounds like enough people aren't too excited about continuing this. I say congrats to chris/jim on the win.

[Bwaha]

I must have summoned too many tartarians, just kidding, I agree to the ending of the game. But first let me thank you all for a fun game. And thanks to the fine people who fixed this game. Good luck in future games, I learned alot, and I don't consider myself a noobe anymore.:D

[fungalreason]

Just curious..... how many pearls did you have by the end, Jim? I'm guessing it's near a thousand

[chrispedersen]

Thanks to all that played. I really enjoyed the game - and appreciate all the efforts people made to be timely.

Friends, all..

[JimMorrison]

Just curious..... how many pearls did you have by the end, Jim? I'm guessing it's near a thousand

Most turns, the Nexus was providing ~150 Pearls, it was ridiculous. I was holding 350 in reserve, so on the new turn I typically had around 500.

Since we're done, I'm going to come clean, because this has been really bugging me. I did NOT cast the Nexus with many extra pearls. It was a calculated risk, but also (being rather new when we started this game), I thought Dispel had to beat the total # of gems used in casting. So I thought say if you cast Nexus with 150 pearls, someone would dispel with 151, not 31 as it seems is the case. So, R'lyeh could have quite easily taken it down and kept it down, if they had chosen to do so.

All the globals make a pretty funny story, actually. I had not planned on them, other than the Deep Well, which I considered pivotal to MA Agartha success. My pretender was an Enchantress, 6E6S4N. Kind of a weird build, but the magical flexibility she gave me, made the game possible. On the way to the Deep Well, I decided to leverage her extra pearls into the Stellar Focus (which Marignon would later quietly dispel to put up the Second Sun), just for fun. By this time, no one else was casting any globals other than the Mother Oak, so I decided that since I had no one to use my Nature gems other than my pretender, that GoH would really help out my mages - that choice is really what kept me competitive through the BoT (and 2 Leprosies on my capital).

Eventually, with again, no one to use my Pearls except my pretender, I looked at my assorted gem stocks, and decided that since I was surrounded by people who it would be inconvenient to go to war with, and I was so small and inoffensive, I would see if I could get away with the Nexus. Well I did, and as you said, it was a turning point in the game. After a few turns of stocking up and getting my affairs in order, I started funneling 75-100 Pearls to Marignon on most turns, and once I got Wish, I was in fact Wishing Gems, to create and gear more Marble Oracles - and still able to tithe pearls regularly to Marignon, for whatever nefarious purposes he put them to.

R'lyeh was really pissed with me in the late stage of the game. He didn't border very much on Marignon anyways, but he seemed to devote as much resources as possible to cause my destruction, while Chris happily dissected his empire.


I suppose, as R'lyeh was AI and almost destroyed, it would have become increasingly hopeless (unless someone had Dispelled the Nexus, but then I would recast with ~500 Pearls), but it just seemed that you had an awful lot of powerful combatants out there, Fungal. But then, without much Astral magic, you would have been hard pressed against my Oracles, let alone all of the crazy things that Marignon had out there.


Well, good game everyone, I had fun! <3

[fungalreason]

Yeah I had a ton of SCs... nearly all the blood uniques and a ton of artifacts. But there's no way I could have kept pace with that gem income. I thought you guys were probably both wishing when I saw the seraphs, and I didn't have any caster capable of it. If I had only known the nexus didn't have that many extra gems.... it's unfortunate I chose to kill the Well, and hope someone else could take down the nexus.

My last resort was to cast a 400 slave astral corruption, and hope that I could catch the guy putting up all the globals with a horror. But since he was wishing, that probably wouldn't have been too effective.

At any rate, it was a fun game. Good luck in the next one!

[chrispedersen]

Early in the game, I had let it known to some that I had tried a dispel - and failed with more than 300 gems. This became accepted wisdom - and it was funny when it was reported back to me.


I had three wish capable casters - but I was only wishing about every other turn.

[Calahan]

I think Atlantis missed a real chance in this game to do great things. During play-testing, I came to the conclusion that Atlantis could be very powerful if they -

a) Started on their own (as in no water nation near them)
b) Got enough nature gems early on to empower, summon Naiads, and spam clams.

And my guess is from the start location and magic sites, Atlantis could easily have done b) by turn 20. When I took over around turn 50 odd, Atlantis were sitting on a gems pile of 300+ Water and 200+ Nature. That is a hell of a lot of missed clam potential.

If the game had continued, I was either going to attempt a huge astral corruption casting via Moon Mages (or a co-ordinated effort with Jotun), or at the end Atlantis had about 50 clams (I was forging 2-3 per turn from turn 60, plus inherited a dozen from R'lyeh) so I was going to save up every gem for a 999 casting of the Nexus, and just hope I could keep it up long enough to store up enough gems to recast it once Agrtha/Marignon had dispelled it. Although if I did somehow manage to keep the Nexus up, I doubt I would have stood any chance of fighting off the attack it would have brought upon me.

[chrispedersen]

I have been scrying you ever since you went more or less neutral.
I had noted the location of the eludian assassins... the moon mages.. and you had one square, where your gem income was astronomical. I was envious of your recruits!

A partial reason for the stockpile was he had been trading them with me....

[Slobby]

R'lyeh was really pissed with me in the late stage of the game. He didn't border very much on Marignon anyways, but he seemed to devote as much resources as possible to cause my destruction, while Chris happily dissected his empire.


I wasn't pissed at you. :D I had just lost my previous game due to the nexus. Coming into this game, I saw I was up against the nexus once again. Marignon DoWd me once I took over, it was clear that you two had an alliance and I was faced with choices.

1. Give up provinces to Agartha and join in a 3 way alliance against Jot. Not ideal since, being the new comer, I would a) be the most likely to be targeted after Jot was finished up b) I would be at a severe disadvantage in racing to take Jot's lands being a water nation c) the nation with the nexus would become stronger and eventually unstoppable.

2. Try to put together an alliance to stop the Marignon/Agartha alliance. I approached other powers and they declined.

2 would have been ideal in helping ensure a victory for Ryleh.

Having already turned down option one I was to go it alone against the fearsome duo, despite holes in my research namely evo6. I thought I would be able to manage at first...then the Seraphs showed up. At that point there was only one thing left to do...stall long enough and try to kill your great enchantress so that the nexus would come down.

It's funny I barely thought about dispelling it. The previous game I tried that route since it was an oracle camped in the heart of enemy territory, but in the end all I accomplished was wasting gems. So this game I tried to side step the dispel and tried leprosy and finally in one final desperate attempt armageddon.

It's sad that in the end the game ended due to a bug, however, imo, it would have ended with Marignon/Agartha for the win regardless. Although it would have been interesting to see which of the two would have won a head to head war once the rest of the world was split between them. :)

[JimMorrison]

Well to be honest, the original plan that I had offered to Chris, was that I wanted to see him win (since he had such a powerful start, and I was so small). With all of those Pearls going straight into his Seraph production, and with the hideous ravaging that I was taking from R'lyeh, it was highly unlikely I could have even dreamed of overtaking Marignon in a 1v1 fight.


But, although you did stay stuck on me with a vengeance, I was more referring to the original player (too lazy to check first post to remind me who). He was really angry with me at the start of the war, and it affected his judgement somewhat. But I played the turtle, and he was afraid to go "all in" against me, as if he sensed that was exactly what I wanted him to do, so I could find his weakness and exploit it. :p But, he avoided that fate by just trying to wear me down, and in the meantime Chris just started dismantling R'lyeh with great speed.

I don't even think he much likes Marignon, it's kind of funny really, cause he played them to the hilt. ;)

Oh and at the end there, my income was about 700, and my upkeep was over 1000. It sucked pretty badly. Though if I hadn't been getting an allowance from Marignon, I probably wouldn't have been sending him all those Pearls, so I could have found a buyer for some I'm sure (though is that self defeating? sell someone the Pearls they need to Dispel your own Nexus.....).

[chrispedersen]

Yeah. I *hate* Marignon. All the good races were originally taken, so I signed up for Machaka - but then two other people asked for it.. sooo I gave them Machaka and took.. Marignon.

Mostly to make a point.

Don't get me wrong - marignon sucks. No magic diversity, and old age mages. But my usual advice to players is - pump out the flagellants and crossbow men asap. Those were essentially the only national troops I ever built.

Ermor tried to pin me in - and when I offered a very reasonable compromise - splitting Vanheim - well when he declined he was essentially one of the perfect opponents for me.

Flame arrows, holy pyre, fireballs + flagellents with fire weapons...

[Calahan]

I have been scrying you ever since you went more or less neutral.
I had noted the location of the eludian assassins... the moon mages.. and you had one square, where your gem income was astronomical. I was envious of your recruits!

Atlantis had some really nice provinces. Moon Mages for Astral3, Death, Blood, and all Astral booster needs. A 20 Conj + 20 Ench site for Summons/Rituals. 'The Bowl of the Lost' for free Bane's. Plus a number with high gem income provinces. And all of them should have been easily obtainable/defendable from where Atlantis started (all on coast or in SE corner). Which is all yet another reason I think Atlantis missed out bigtime, and why I'm even more annoyed I had to drop them, and this game, on turn 1 :envy::envy::envy:

A partial reason for the stockpile was he had been trading them with me....

Think it's a great idea for Atlantis to trade for Water+Nature gems :) but not so great if those gems just end up sitting there gathering dust :doh: "Won't somebody please think of the clams", oh sorry I mean children :D

But well played Chris + Jim. You were both in a very strong position when I subbed in, and that wouldn't have happened without good play and cunning diplomacy :up: So hat's off to you both (inserts a smilie lifting some sort of hat)

[chrispedersen]

Yeah you had the most incredible sites Cal.
But the original player was dueling with either pangaiea or Ermor much of the game.

I was aiding Pangaiea = ). Anyway - why not join us in
Even More Machiavelli?