Beer game! EA - Signup Closed!

[chrispedersen]

Age - Early!
Map - Alexander
No. of players - 15
Hosting - 24 hours for the 1st 10 turns then negotiable
Mods - Worthy Heroes
Everything else - default
Victory conditions- hold 6 capitals and their
fortifications for 3 full turns

Delays will be granted upon request. AI after 2 stale, without contact.


Let's get the sign-ups started!

Hinnom -Chris (got toasted in last game, want to try again!
Executor - Mictlan
Calahan - Sauro
Bwaha - Neif
Peltin - Formoria
Dragar - Abysia
AApeli - Ctis
TGbob - Marvelous Marvelo Marverni
Juffos - Atlantis
Slobby - Ryalla
Fakey - Ermor
anticip-Agartha
coobe- Arco
Cerlin-Tir na
RevZ - Lanka (Oh no!)
Zenzei - Caelum
Omni - ???
Strictly - Rockin with Vanheim.

Game is setup. Awaiting pretenders.

For new people: Create a pretender, and send it to pretenders@llamaserver.net. No passwords on the pretender files please!

Alexander map:

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=573514&page=&view=&sb=5&o =&fpart=1&vc=1
best to all

No exploits on the banned list: EXCEPT (just to be different) MoD is OK. At least pending protest = ).

Guys, please can we allow MoD. See the following: http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=625078&page=0&view=collap sed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1


chris

[Executor]

I'm up for Mictlan, and you really seem to like the new giants!

[Calahan]

Count me in as Sauromatia please.

[Zenzei]

Will this be network or pbem game?

[Bwaha]

The Neif for me please. Bwaha http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif Will play any system, but I really like tcp/ip.

[Pelthin]

Fomoria for me, if you please.

Thanks.

[Dragar]

Abysia, cheers

[Aapeli]

Sign me in with Citis.

[llamabeast]

As always, you are welcome to use the LlamaServer if you decide to opt for PBEM.

[tgbob]

Eeny, meeny, miny, Marverni!

[Juffos]

Atlantis for me, please.

[Slobby]

I'll give Yomi a go

[Fakeymcfake]

Ermor for me if you please.

[StrictlyRockers]

I would like Vanheim, please.

[Omnirizon]

i'll rock out with Kailasa

[Fakeymcfake]

I'm all for llama hosting this, I'm currently playing another game hosted by him and it's working out great so far.

[Pelthin]

I think the Llama host is great. The server updates every 5 minutes and works like a charm.

[anticipatient]

I want pangaea please!!!

[coobe]

i like Arco plz

[Cerlin]

Can I be Tir na n'og?
I like llama

[Xox]

I would like to play, but only if it is a network game.

I really hate the pbm downloading and uploading a turn every turn. With network i just hit hit shortcut. Much easier to see if a turn is ready too. Hardly any network games anymore.

[Reverend Zombie]

Lanka, please.

[Aapeli]

Id prefer llamaserver but am willing to go either way.

[Bwaha]

Hi, Llama is the best I've seen. I like his set up very much, Thanks LLama. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif Bwaha

[Zenzei]

If there's still room, I could play Caelum.

[GrudgeBringer]

I'll try Arcoscephale if your still open....

[GrudgeBringer]

Also Can someone tell me where to get Worthy Heroes so I can D/L it?

[Omnirizon]

i like PBEM and llamaserver, personally. so that's fine by me.

[chrispedersen]

Hey Grudge, someone spoke for arco already. I am happy to have you join us, but check the first post for an available nation!

chris

[Omnirizon]

i'd actually say that the game closed with coobe picking arco, as that put it at 15; but you're the host so i'll leave you to make that call.

[chrispedersen]

You're absolutely right Omni - and if anyone objects I will close the game at 15. However, I hate to leave players who wanted to play out of the game. So if no one objects, I'll let a grudge and a few last minute people on.

See also the first posting.

[Ironhawk]

Umm... just fyi - your victory condition is so high as to make it moot.

[chrispedersen]

9/15 is too high?

[Slobby]

Looking for another water nation? I can play R'yleh...

[GrudgeBringer]

I will back out but Thanks thogh.

I am pretty new and really only know a couple of nations and I also do not have Worthy Heroes Mod (does anyone know where I can get it).

I will play a few more nations and play the next one.

I appreciate your keeping it open for me but if you have 15 that is probably big enough.

Thanks agian

[Ironhawk]

chrispedersen said:
9/15 is too high?



Think so, yeah. Its a tricky thing to balance because VPs (especially cap-vps!) are SO hard to capture. If you put the number of VPs too high, you make them moot because in order to get that many the player in question is so powerful that everyone would likely just concede before then anyway. The key is to find the sweet spot where you have just high enough VPs too keep anyone from winning by surprise, but to still keep it low enough that a bold player can pull off a win with a determined attempt (which prevents the game from dragging on forever).

IME, I've found that 40% or so is a good cutoff for VPs. However, I'm not playing in this game so I dont have a say in how you set your game up. I just wanted to point it out.

[chrispedersen]

I appreciate the feed back. So I have changed it to 6 held for three turns!

[Omnirizon]

EDIT: forget it. I'll just jump out of this game. good luck.

[StrictlyRockers]

I'd vote for netwok game. I have never had any problems with llamaserver. It's very consistent and dependable. I'm just lazy and I don't like the few extra steps involved.

[anticipatient]

Llama server is great! Let's use it. And I totally don't mind having more than 15 players! Omni, you shouldn't leave the game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif I want to play with you!

[calmon]

chrispedersen said:
I appreciate the feed back. So I have changed it to 6 held for three turns!



I would go for more cities needed (50% is good) but no holding time. Its really really difficult to take back any city in this 3 turns (and nearly impossible in 1). Good players use teleport/cloud trapeze to defend stormable cities very effecitve.

Keeping VPs for some turns make only sence if you play with non-capital VPs. So some are still unfortified in late game and this one have to keep for 3 turns.

[Zenzei]

Since I presume Mist of Deception is banned in this game, maybe we should also use Twan's MoD mod (in addition to Worthy Heroes) so air nations won't completely lose one of their very few late game spells. What do you think?

-Zenzei, God of Caelum http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[chrispedersen]

How about we try allowing MoD?

[Pelthin]

Might be something broke on my end, but the Worthy Hero's mod is empty when I downloaded it.

Any other good locations to d/l it.

[Zenzei]

How about we try allowing MoD?


I certainly won't object this, heh.
But I really think we need every players approval for said spell if we're going allow it into game without fix, for without such an agreement hair splitting and sour feelings are 100% quaranteered when someone uses MoD for the first time.

In case we can't let MoD to stay as is, Twan's fix would be nice to have as I suggested above.

EDIT: Caelum pretender is already made and ready to roll even though the game itself is not yet on Llamaserver. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Bwaha]

Please explain MoD mod. Thanks, great choice of map as well.

[anticipatient]

I'd be fine using MoD mod.

I don't know how mists of deception works (I forget), Bwaha, but it's basically a very exploitable spell that lets one or two mages kill lots lots more troops than they worth over and over again http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Aapeli]

I would also want to know what MoD mod does and where can I get it. Im not against it tough. And nice map by the way.

[Bwaha]

I know of what ummodified MoD does, whats the fix?

[anticipatient]

i forget what the fix is ;D but it makes it not work quite as ruinously

[llamabeast]

Okay, game set up. Please make sure to include the word "Beer" in the subject line of your e-mail when you send the pretender in.

With regards to the reference to "Alex" in the first post - I don't think most people know I'm called Alex! Although I am. I think I actually prefer llama online though. Not in real life, mind. That would be weird.

Bit drunk, sorry. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Bwaha]

Good man, here's my pretender, hiccup, cough, sip...

[anticipatient]

im switching to kailasa ;p i have decided i dont like ea pangea, at least at this point http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

<edit> ok, i am frustrated with all these races -- i'll figure something out and send a pretender in, then ill let y'all know)

[anticipatient]

Hey, i could play a water nation to even things up a little.

[GrudgeBringer]

This is GrudgeBringer

Thanks for holding the game open but I have really only played a couple of nations and would not be much competition with a nation I have never tried.

Looks like you got a GREAT turnout though...if someone needs a sub I would fill in just for the experiance (though I would probably run it in the ground..lol)

I'll be in the next one...count on it!!

Grudge

[anticipatient]

Should I play water to even things up or Pangaea as i planned?

[Dragar]

I reckon even it up if you don't mind playing a water nation

[anticipatient]

i ended up with agartha.

[Zenzei]

Here's a link to Twan's MoD mod (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=596055&page=&view=&sb=5&o =&fpart=1&vc=1) for those who want to take a look.

[Calahan]

Have any decisions been made yet regarding the 'Mists of Deception' spell? Not sure if I'd personally be in favour of allowing the spell as it stands in the vanilla game, but Twan's MoD mod looks great, and can't see any problems with allowing 'MoD' then.

Also, what version of the Alexander map are we using? I've downloaded it from the link on the game info page, and the map has three versions (a)Version 1.2 (b)Version 1.4 (c)'No-sites' version of 1.4. Does it need clarifying which one we're using?

ps. Funky looking map. Should be fun to battle on!

[chrispedersen]

Yes. The decision was play with it unless someone complains.

No one has yet = ).

[chrispedersen]

So far we are missing only:

Arco (coobe) and Anticipant - pangaeia.. But I suspect substitution might be going on.

Llama, if those players have submitted, please go ahead and start (and slip me a link on how to start adminning )
Thanks!

I will give them until close of tomorrow to get a pretender in and then we start one way or another!

[Bwaha]

I agree with calahan as far as MoD. Also what Map are we at? I have a map of alexander, but I don't know if its the right one...

[anticipatient]

Chris, I sent you a PM. I'm in as Agartha instead of Pangaea. Sorry for the confusion.

So just missing coobe right?

[coobe]

im sending my pretender in just now. sorry for the delay

[Reverend Zombie]

This warning's a bit late to help anyone with Pretender design, but I think Alexander could be crowded with this many players.

I ran a test with 15 players and ran into an AI capital 3 provinces from my own.

This could have been a random start-site fluke, however, because I didn't run into abnormally close neighbors in other directions

[Bwaha]

Yes, its rather crowded, but no fear, I'm sure that problem will clear up rather shortly... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[chrispedersen]

I actually haven't gotten the PM. But... I *think* we are good to go. So, I'll email llama, and ask for the game to commence. You have a few hours for pretender modifications.

I will also ask llama to clarify which version of alexander he used.

Good luck and good gaming all!

[chrispedersen]

One last, impassioned plea.

Guys, I *really* want to play with MoD. Because I think the *exploit* is vastly overrated. I mean, how many games have *you* actually played in where MoD was the deciding factor - as opposed to a good SC for example. Or your pretender design. Or who you jumped - or were jumped by.

So, I'd like to give everyone exposure to it, so everyone can say.. oh yeah, hey.. it wasn't that bad. You're talking to someone, by the way, that wont even be able to cast it!

If that fails to persuade you, check out this:
http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=625078&page=0&view=collap sed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

Lastly, if anyone still protests, then it will be banned.
Crosses fingers & good luck to all~

[Bwaha]

I'm okay either way. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Pelthin]

I'm with BwaHa.. Whatever.. I can get creamed either way. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[StrictlyRockers]

I'm all for playing with MoD. I can't imagine it's much more surprizing than having a red dragon show up on your doorstep on turn two.

[chrispedersen]

LOLOLOLOL
LOLOL

I'm still laughing Strict - and I'm glad you're such a good sport

[Pelthin]

Wait, that actually happened????
I read that as a joke... How did that happen Strick?

[StrictlyRockers]

chrispedersen's Hinnom started three provinces from my Vanheim in our last game.

Turn 2 has red dragon in province next to my cap. (!)

Not the most fun game I've played in, but still pretty darn fun. I survived until about turn 30 or so...

If it happens like that, at least you know you're in for a hot game with lots of action right away. So, you won't hear me complaining if it's a tight map with lots of close neighbors. I'm for all war all the time anyway. What is diplomacy? Diplomacy is the art of saying "nice doggie" until you can find a big stick.

Anyway, chris squished me pretty good in the Brave New World game. I will repeat the quote I used because I like it so much:

"Sometimes you are the windsheild, and sometimes you are the bug." (-stolen from IZZYZ)

[Bwaha]

That a misquote. Teddy said "Speak softly and carry a big stick." Will Rogers said Diplomacy is the art of saying ‘Nice doggie’ until you can find a rock. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[StrictlyRockers]

Right. Like I didn't know the actual quote.

I just don't like the idea of hitting a dog with a big rock, so I switched it a little.

Also, if your Teddy bear speaks to you, you should seek counseling.

[Bwaha]

Hey you don't have to throw the rock, simply acting like it usally make the dog run. I'm a county boy, and I know this works like a charm... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[StrictlyRockers]

lol

[anticipatient]

I honestly don't care about MoD either way. I'd like a chance to play against it anyway, just for fun.. for one or two turns maybe http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Let's just start the game!:)

[chrispedersen]

Llama is sorry for the delay. Says he will start as soon as he comes home from work = )

So MoD is on guys?

[Zenzei]

I'm fine either way. I just offered the MoD mod in case someone would rather not have MoD in play as is.

[Fakeymcfake]

Eh, I've not run into MoD in it's natural form as of yet so I'm morbidly (and probably suicidally) curious. So I'm all for it.

[Cerlin]

Yeah I dont care myself. I have never run into it and too use it you still have to survive to see it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif so it should be interesting. Im sure if we are opposed to it so much when you use it we can gang up on you. haha

[Dragar]

so are we getting this show on the road soon?? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[llamabeast]

Yup yup. Any minute now.

[llamabeast]

Okay all, game started! Apologies for the repeated delays there, I seem to be dopey at the moment.

Have fun!

[Zenzei]

Yay, game's started! Already made my first turn.

EDIT: And good luck to everyone because you're going to need it when woolly feet of Caelian mammoth crashes your door. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[StrictlyRockers]

I'll be surprised if everyone still remembers this game, it took so long to start up...

[Bwaha]

And moving at a breathtaking speed as well...

[Zenzei]

I'm sure things speed up once everyone knows game is on.

[Bwaha]

Yawn, just testing, hold your ears...(ANYONE OUT THERE?)

[anticipatient]

Bwaha, seriously, take it easy. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif You're being just a mite impatient here.

[Bwaha]

Yeah, I agree, sorry. In fact I just got done doing some new turns. Got my fix so to speak. Its that, this is so fun. I hate waiting... My problem, not yours.

[anticipatient]

S'okay. I don't blame you. I'm always eager for new turns. It's why I'm in *gulp* six games. hehe.

[Fakeymcfake]

Geeze, six games is a bit much, especially once you get to the point where one turn could take a good half hour to compete if not more.

[Bwaha]

Oh to live so long, There are some of people that are so deadly, that as a newbie just you just explode on contact... If your new, you should join just to see new insights. Iv'e learned much from getting my *** kicked.

[StrictlyRockers]

I will be happy to eduate you further. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Bwaha]

Bring it...

[anticipatient]

quantum_mechanic is a very good . . educator ;(

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[chrispedersen]

Hey llama - which version of the map did you use?

[anticipatient]

well, he used the same one i used..

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/download.php?Number=573514

This is the link to the map I have (which works for me)

[llamabeast]

I wasn't sure what you meant, because there was only one version in the link you used. I found a file called Alexander_libraries.map in my maps folder, but I didn't use it, I just used Alexander.map.

[chrispedersen]

Thanks llama.

[chrispedersen]

Paging Ctis and Atlantis
Could you get your turns in? We have two cases of withdrawal.....

[Bwaha]

Hey StrictlyRockers, I got something for you. Its a can, a can of whoop ***... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Executor]

WOW, I don't think I can keep up with time game! It's just going too fast for me, I'ma have to get a sub,
50 hours a turn just isn't enough,

TURN 2 ALREADY?!?!
We just started 5 days ago!!!!

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/yawn.gif

[Bwaha]

Here I sit broken hearted, tried to play but they haven't started... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Fakeymcfake]

Ah the washroom stall wisdom, surely it shall be seen as the Shakespeare of our time.

[Zenzei]

Okay Arco has staled 3 three times in a row now without saying a word regarding the reason for that here in the game thread. Therefore I suggest, no I demand, we put Arco AI immediately so we don't have to wait for him every turn pointlessly.

[Cerlin]

i second the motion especially if he has stalled.

[Bwaha]

I agree as well.

[chrispedersen]

Thanks guys. The policy is stale after 2. I just didn't notice.

[chrispedersen]

Huh. I can't do it. Seems like llama has to. I'
ve sent word. In the meantime, if anyone wants to sub in as ARCO, please let me know.


Arco is now ai

[Bwaha]

Hiccup, guys how about a marathon sunday? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[anticipatient]

I don't think Ill be around enough on sunday for marathon but if I am. . . http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Aapeli]

Sunday marathon sounds great. But with 15 players I wonder how if its gonna work...

[Zenzei]

I can certainly squeeze some extra turns in on sunday. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Bwaha]

I'm available from 1800 pst (6pm) til about midnight. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Slobby]

Bwaha said:
I'm available from 1800 pst (6pm) til about midnight. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif



I don't think I will be available for a marathon sunday, and I am 100% sure that I won't be available during that time slot.

[Bwaha]

Ok Worth a try.

[Fakeymcfake]

Eh, I might be able to. On another note I'm going to need a sub for a short while in a few days as I'll be out of town visiting family. How would I go about setting that up (I'm new here).

[Zenzei]

Just make a new topic in multiplayer section asking for a sub. Add in the details you like and that's about it.

EDIT: After you have a sub the email address to which turns are being sent must be changed but I believe game admin can do that.

[chrispedersen]

I am going to ask JimMorrison if he wants to take over my position, if no one has objection.

[Calahan]

Chris, I might object to you ducking out actually. I mean, how can I give you a good revenge kicking for your early attack on me if you're not around to receive it! :-)

ps. I'm fine with JimM stepping in :-)

[Fakeymcfake]

Well it appears I'm going to have to bow out as no one is willing to fill in for me during the week I'll be away. I'll hold off until Wednesday but unless stated otherwise I will be forced to go AI then.

[StrictlyRockers]

I do have an objection to the game being delayed with no notice given. What's up?

This is the kind of thing that happens when it takes so long for a game to set up and get started. Already on turn 8 we have three drop outs!? WTF? LAME.

Maybe I'll go back to playing single player. At least the AI won't quit on me in the middle of a game... How is anyone expected to maintain interest in something like this??

[chrispedersen]

Hey Strict,

I don't mind if you're hard on me, but real life intrudes on other people. The more people that are in the game, the harder it is for everyone to get every turn in all the time.

Which is why I say delays upon request. Its one day Strict.

Best

Chris

[Slobby]

StrictlyRockers said:
I do have an objection to the game being delayed with no notice given. What's up?

This is the kind of thing that happens when it takes so long for a game to set up and get started. Already on turn 8 we have three drop outs!? WTF? LAME.

Maybe I'll go back to playing single player. At least the AI won't quit on me in the middle of a game... How is anyone expected to maintain interest in something like this??



I think this is more of an exception to the norm, although who's supposed to set the admin to ai after he's staled twice? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Or for that matter who will be the new game admin?

[StrictlyRockers]

All I'm asking for is some explanation. I still have no clue what is going on or why the game is delayed. Is Chris bowing out as Hinnom? Is that why? Are we delaying because FakeyMcFake can't find a sub? Are we waiting for Arco to come back from his walkabout?

Those of us who are chronically clue impaired need to be told what is happening...preferably in advance of it happening, not afterward.

[anticipatient]

BTW, to turn someone AI, change the email address of the player to the host's, or whatever, request a turn resend, log on as that player, go to options (in the game), "set ai," "yes," and "end turn." Then send the .2h file back to turns[ at ]llamaserver[ dot ]net

Anyway, as long as a temporary sub is being sought, I personally don't mind delaying a couple of days. I am a little confused as to who is still here, who has dropped out, who is AI, who is this and that . . . http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

(Edited by llama to mung the e-mail address)

[Fakeymcfake]

The delay has nothing to do with me, I won't be out of town until later in the week. Hopefully a sub can be found before then but if I can't I'll just set myself to AI before I go.

[StrictlyRockers]

Still no clarification for me. So, why are we stalled?

-Mr. Clue Impaired

[Bwaha]

Hey guys, lets go, okay... Less quiting, more fighting...

[Aapeli]

Or if you quit then find a substitute cause I hate doing diplomacy with AI (and of course its much more fun to declare a war to a real player http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif).

[chrispedersen]

We were staled because I worked 22 hours then 36 hours.
And I have a substitute for my position -- but I don't have his email address to set him up.

Im sorry about this, this was my favorite game. And it is spoiled by real life.

[StrictlyRockers]

It happens. I hate it when real life interferes with my gaming!

I had to drop out of all my games once about a year ago. I hated doing it. I hated doing it when I was involved in fun, hot wars with awesome players.

It's why I waited over a year before signing up for any more games. I waited until I knew I was set up so that that could not happen again. More than anything else, I hated inconveniencing my fellow players, and I didn't want that to happen again.

[Bwaha]

Hey, StrictlyRockers, take it easy man. Real life takes precidence over games every time. When I have to move I will be out of the loop for a short time. Although I will give notice ect... So don't worry, be happy... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Aapeli]

Well its nasty of course when real life comes in the way of dominions but I think its good that we let real life to come on the way of games instead of letting games come in the way of real life.

[Fakeymcfake]

Well, Psycho will kindly be stepping in for me for the next week or so. So I'll bid you fine people adieu for now and turn over the show to Psycho.

Edit: It appears that Psycho's brother is currently playing this game and so he will be unable to take part due to the copy protection built into the game. So I'll be going AI by Friday unless I'm able to find a sub.

[Cerlin]

wow lots of subbing but I am still here. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif As long as there are other players lets keep going then beat up on any AI then each other. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[anticipatient]

I am going to be out of town for about 24 hours this weekend (JUST enough to get a stale). I hope you don't mind giving me a 36 hour extension. I will, of course, return and send my turn ASAP when I am back.

If that's not okay, I'll take the stale. Thanks :_)

[Executor]

What are the chances that barbarians will pillage a province in the same turn when a vampire lord reveales himself and when I move a large army on that same province with luck 3?

[Bwaha]

due to personal problems can we got to 48 hour? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/Injured.gif

[chrispedersen]

I believe the game is now 48 hours, delayed until monday.

[StrictlyRockers]

Once again waiting on Bwaha to finish his turn.

[Executor]

This is insane, It's turn 16, and I've been attacked 3 times by barberians, once by vampires and then villans, WITH LUCK 3!?!?!? WTF?

[chrispedersen]

Well you might want to reconsider posting that information.
It tells people you've taken sloth scales or have unrest
(iirc those are the two things that unlock the barbarian events).

[Executor]

Everybody can guess what scales others took from the graphs anyway, It don't hurt me, and I doubt I'll be attacked just yet.

[chrispedersen]

I know of no way to guess Production/Sloth.

[Executor]

Well what is more logical for Mictlan, production or sloth.
I always tend to take sloth anyway, it's the least important scale in my opinion.
And I fail to realize how it hurts me if everybody knows the approximate scales I took, the only nations that can attack me already know the scales and the bless probably.

[Bwaha]

Sorry guys, I had to quit. I'm now ai.

[StrictlyRockers]

Sorry to see you bail out of a good game, Bwaha.

[anticipatient]

Agartha declares war on Vanheim. They are too aggressive to be kept as a neighbor.

[anticipatient]

Sh-t. I broke 4/5 of my LCD computer screen. :o/ Smashed. White, black and pink. No good. I can't run dom3 on any other computer at the moment, so the 10 or 11 games I'm in need subs :( I'm really sorry. Hopefully it'll be temporary (anyone know if it's possible to replace monitors on laptops?)

Okay, I go to post on the next game =(

[Calahan]

All

Any suggestions as to what we do about Vanheim (Strictly Rockers) in this game? Think they've staled for the past 4-5 turns now, and are currently acting as no more than Agartha food.

I PMed StrictlyRockers a few days ago to find out what's happening, but haven't had any response (although know he's a very busy person in real life, so wouldn't be surprised if things have just cropped up for him). Hate to find a sub, or AI someone 'behind their back' as it were, but it's a bit unbalancing to have a decent sized nation just sitting there doing nothing for so long.

This is a very quiet thread, but still hope I can get some opinions on this. Also, who is the admin for this game now? I'm pretty sure Chrispedersen was at the start, but he dropped out ages ago, and not sure who (if anyone) took over.

[Executor]

He should be subbed or at least put to AI, It's better than to just wait for someone to kill him off without a fight.

[chrispedersen]

All

Any suggestions as to what we do about Vanheim (Strictly Rockers) in this game? Think they've staled for the past 4-5 turns now, and are currently acting as no more than Agartha food.

I PMed StrictlyRockers a few days ago to find out what's happening, but haven't had any response (although know he's a very busy person in real life, so wouldn't be surprised if things have just cropped up for him). Hate to find a sub, or AI someone 'behind their back' as it were, but it's a bit unbalancing to have a decent sized nation just sitting there doing nothing for so long.

This is a very quiet thread, but still hope I can get some opinions on this. Also, who is the admin for this game now? I'm pretty sure Chrispedersen was at the start, but he dropped out ages ago, and not sure who (if anyone) took over.


I still try to pay attention = ). I said when I was knocked out I don't mind doing admin .. or handing it over to someone - but that someone would have to tell me when something needed doing - I don't mind reading the forums periodically, but I can't check all the games.

So, if someone wants the job - happy to hand it over else, would you like a delay while you look for a sub for Strict?

[Calahan]

If nobody objects, I'm going to ask Chrispedersen to delay the game for 48hrs, and try to find a sub for Vanheim (StrictlyRockers). If no sub is found, then I suggest the position gets turned AI.

Hard to tell what the Vanheim position is like, but it may well still be tenable since they had a very good start, still appear to be 'in the game' (from the graphs anyway) and must be sitting on a huge stack of cash right now due to the stale turns. So somebody may pick them up :) and prevent another nation going AI :(

[Saarud]

If you still need someone I'd like to sub for Vanheim. It would be a shame for you guys to play against an AI and even though I haven't played MP for almost 2 years I'm pretty sure I can put up a better fight than the AI. :D

[StrictlyRockers]

It looks like I may need a sub. I have not had internet access for the past week. I am still working on that. Also my dad has gotten into a very serious motorcycle accident. If you find a sub, that's fine. I may still be able to play, but not sure when I can pick it back up. Very sorry to have staled last few turns. We were just getting to the good part.

[Calahan]

Sorry to hear about you real life problems Strictly Rockers. Hope they sort themselves out soon and that your father makes a full and speedy recovery.

[Calahan]

Saarub.

Great to hear you fancy stepping into the Vanheim shoes. Certainly a bonus to all the players if a still competitive nation can avoid being turned AI. So a big thanks from everyone for offering up your time and talents for this game :)

Have sent you a PM.

[Dragar]

I'm sorry to hear the bad news Rockers, hope your dad is ok. Best of luck, hope to have you back playing soon

[Calahan]

Ok everyone, looks like we're back up to a full compliment of players now as 'Saarud' has kindly and bravely taken over the Vanheim position. Apologies for the delay, but hope you all agree it was worth it to prevent losing another nation to the AI.

Also, I've taken over from Chrispedersen as the admin for this game, so any problems or delay requests please PM me or post in the game thread.

Game on :)

[Calahan]

Aarrgh, just realised that 'anticipatient' (who appears to have gone AWOL in all his games) is playing Agartha in this game, so a replacement will need to be sought asap (I thought it was someone else who was doing the stale turns, so just checked the thread to find out who it was)

Will look for a sub now, and delay the game slightly if needed to try and find one. Agartha are one of the top nations, so definitely don't want to see them AI-ed.

[Calahan]

Ok, looks like this game will need to be delayed again :( Sorry folks.

My request for a sub for Agartha/'anticipatient' got answered quickly, but I haven't heard anything back yet from the player who showed an interest in taking them on. So the sub process is currently in limbo. I will give the player another 12hrs to get back to me, if not then I'll ask again for a sub.

Also, 'Executor'/Mictlan seems to have appeared briefly on a few other game threads yesterday (27th Sep) requesting a 48hr delay due to internet problems. Not sure if he forgot to post the same message on this thread or not, but I'm going to assume he did forget (or lost his internet before getting to it) and delay the game slightly for him.

Sorry again for the recent hold-ups. But hopefully the game can sun smoothly again once a few of these minor bumps have been sorted out :)

[Calahan]

Right everyone, 'MadFrancis' has very kindly agreed to take over Agartha from 'anticipatient'. So a big thank you to him for that :)

Agartha appears to be all setup now, and will probably be in touch with several of you regarding current Agarthian diplomatic issues in the very near future (so please check your PM's).

We're only waiting on Mictlan/'Executor' now for the current turn. I'm guessing he still has the internet problems he posted about on the 27th Sept. While the friendly side of me would like to delay the game until his situation is clearer, the admin side of me says there's already been a long delay for the current turn (the current turn file came out on the 24th Sept) and a further delay of the current turn would hold up the game for just too long, and we'd risk other players dropping out as a result due to inactivity.

I hope the game can get back to smooth running now :) but guess another delay might unfortunately be around the corner if Mictlan/'Executor' stale again the following turn.

Best of Luck all, and let those battles commence :D

[Calahan]

I've delayed the current turn by 48hrs to give Mictlan/'Executor' one last chance to appear before looking for a sub. My guess is Executor will get back on the internet properly first chance he gets. But right now, when that might be is anyones guess. Sometimes problems just happen and they take longer to solve than you first expect.

I will start looking for a temp sub sometime tomorrow if he doesn't show up overnight (UK time). I think this game is proving to be a bit jinxed at the moment.

[Executor]

I'm back in the game ( hope I am, haven't looked at my turn yet),
sorry for the delay everyone.


Wow! I don't know how many turn I staled but gems, slaves and gold stoked up, watch your backs now!

[Zenzei]

Just wanted to say thanks to you Calahan, you have certainly done good job in keeping this game running as smoothly as possible. :)

Personally I don't mind at all if the turns get delayed a bit because I'm playing in Kingmaker + RAND and both those games are in late stages and take lot of time.

[Calahan]

Thanks for the kind words Zenzei :) This is my first ever go at being admin for a game, and while the unfortunate stales and drop outs we've had have given me a far from perfect introduction, I hope I've managed to keep some sort of flow going to the game. And I'm happy not to have lost any nation to the AI yet :D


Great to have you back Executor :happy:

Tried to do my best regarding delaying the game for you, but without going nuts. I would have tried to find a sub for the last turn if my weekend hadn't been unexpectedly manic. Good to hear Mictlan are still in pretty good shape though. Maybe you can become the force to blackout Caelum's growing power :p ;)@Zenzei


To All

I recently changed the game timer to 72hrs to give Executor more chance to continue without suffering excessive stales. But I will be changing it back to 48hrs from the next turn onwards to see if we can get back to a normal schedule :) I will change the game to 72hrs hours either after 2-3 requests, or once the game gets somewhere past turn 50.

[tgbob]

Marvaeni is trading for air and astral gems. Please be using the forums if you're interested in a trade.

[Slobby]

WTB rings of the warrior. Willing to trade E gems. Message Ryleh if willing to trade.

[Aapeli]

I was caught by an unexpected internet reconfiguration (or something along those lines). Need at least 24 more hours (will post if more needed). Sorry for the inconvinience.

[Calahan]

Sorry to hear about your internet problems Aapeli. Have delayed the current turn by 24hrs.

[Calahan]

All

I have temporarily changed the hosting interval to 96hours. I am leaving for Greece with work in a few hours, and have no idea if I'll have internet/WiFi access where I'm going. It might turn out that internet wise, everything is good where I'm going, but to be on the safe side I've altered the hosting interval to carry to the weekend in case I end up in an internet deadzone.

Sorry to all for the slight delay.

[Slobby]

So, uh, how long are you landlubbers going to let Caelum have the run of the world above the sea? :hide:

[Executor]

Why don't you try and stop them than?

[Slobby]

The people of Ryleh have other goals in mind :fish: <- haha who's gonna get smacked by a fish? lol only time will tell..

[Slobby]

So, uh, Calahan seems to have gone to Greece and never returned! We need a new admin, and I guess need to try to find a sub. Sauro was at war with Marv right?

[Slobby]

WingedDog has agreed to sub, to move things along I'll get in touch with llama to get him set up, and extend the current turn by 24 hours so he has a chance to familiarize himself with the position.

I guess I'm be the new admin for the time being, if someone else wants to be or has objections to this, then post away.

[Slobby]

I was also thinking of changing the hosting interval to 48 or 72 hours. Any preference? Or would everyone like to maintain the 96?

[WingedDog]

Greetings everyone, I'm the new Sauromatia representative. I hoped to get familiar with the game situation today, but my e-mail adress wasn't set up as Sauromatian yet. So I'd like to ask for a delay at least until Monday. Sorry for keeping you waiting.

[Executor]

I'm up for 72 hours hosting interval.

[Slobby]

Greetings everyone, I'm the new Sauromatia representative. I hoped to get familiar with the game situation today, but my e-mail adress wasn't set up as Sauromatian yet. So I'd like to ask for a delay at least until Monday. Sorry for keeping you waiting.

Np WD, and sorry for the delay...Sauro was the admin and llama's been out and about so he probably hasn't seen my pm yet.

[tgbob]

Guess I should pay more attention to the thread! Having my opponent suddenly switch is pretty important news.

[tgbob]

Thank you for hosting when I was taking my turn, I do oh so enjoy staling. :clap:

[Slobby]

Thank you for hosting when I was taking my turn, I do oh so enjoy staling. :clap:

Who are you thanking? Llama still hasn't responded to my pm, understandably seeing as llamaserver is still acting up. Currently the game is adrift and subject to the whims of llamaserver.

[WingedDog]

The administrator of the game should have sent his password to somebody before leaving...
I still did't have the chance to see the turn.

[Slobby]

I've pm'd the original game admin asking for the admin password, hopefully he recalls it...

[Slobby]

Alrighty, big thanks to llama, who has supplied me with the admin pass (chris did 2, but calahan changed the old one, still thank you chris). Llama also informed me that wingeddog is now set up as the new sauromatia. This turn will remain as 96h, but the next turn and all turns onward will be 72h.

[WingedDog]

Yep, I'm in. I apretiate noone atacked Sauromatia while it was staling. As I was told my enemy was Marveni, so I'd like to tell I do not intend to atack my other neighbors unless they do atack me. If someone desire to speak of diplomacy, trade or share information - adress me. For now I need some time to figure out the political situation and my predesessor's motives to undertand what do I need from others and what I can give in return.

[tgbob]

I see what happened, the change of hosting interval from 96 to 72 hours prompted llamaserver to host and made me miss my turn.

Generic rage towards the deus ex machina it is! :rant:

[llamabeast]

Actually I think it was my fault, I set all games to host 48 hours after I repaired the server, which meant they all hosted this morning. Sorry about that.

[WingedDog]

May I have another question? What are the red chiniese-teple-look-like-buildings in provinces 100 and 195?

[WingedDog]

Do not forget to patch the game before sending next turn (49). Here's the link:
http://download.shrapnelgames.com/downloads/dompatch321.exe

[WingedDog]

Who is mysterious person playing Vanheim?

[Executor]

Yes It makes me wonder also, can't do diplomacy if I don't know who to do it with.
Could Vanheim please PM me.

[WingedDog]

2 Exacutor
I also PMed you, don't ignore plz.

[Executor]

I do belive I have replayed to you PM.

[Slobby]

May I have another question? What are the red chiniese-teple-look-like-buildings in provinces 100 and 195?

I believe there are special sites there.

[Slobby]

Saruud is playing Vanheim

[WingedDog]

Saruud is playing Vanheim

There's no such user.

[Slobby]

:rolleyes: Typo, it's Saarud

[tgbob]

Going AI, night night.

[Slobby]

Everyone please welcome Radioheart, he will be the new ruler of Vanheim.

[Executor]

I think we'll be needing a sub for the subbed sub soon...

[Radioheart]

Hey wow. Vanheim under new management. Who is on our side? Dispatch messengers to declare your allegiance. Any big wars going on I should know about, specifically wars involving Vanheim?

Should have a turn posted by late tonight, early Sunday morning. If you have anything important for me to consider, send it in.

[Slobby]

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=41327 <- I think Mictlan just declared war on you!

Besides that there are individual wars going on all over the place, but this is the only one that concerns you to my knowledge.

[Executor]

Actually Mictlan declared war on the former ruler a few turns ago.

[WingedDog]

The Sauromatia is shoked by Mictlan's behavior.
Seeng Mictlan has started taking provinces of my enemy - Marveni, after Marveni were put to AI, I've sent the notification to Mictlan representative about coordinating our moves in order to avoid fighting each other. I've send him numbers of provinces I was going to atack and asked if it was OK with him. With his confirmation received I sent my troops.
Today I watch my turn-file and find my prophet bumping into 110 Mictlan sacred units instead of Marveni PD resulting him swift death. So far I had a NAP-3 with Mictlan, but this is inappropriate. Waiting for the comments from Executor about this incident.

[Executor]

You are talking about province 289 right?
It was my province until Marverni AI took it from me 2 turns ago, You can check it if you don't believe me. If I missed seeing that you are going to attack that province too I'm sorry that but I was just retaking it.
I did say also that I will not take any Marverni provinces as I have not and was able to take several this turn also.

[WingedDog]

Executor
I checked the turns, indeed, it used to be your province, my apologee. I'm a new player in this game and do not remember territories precisely. But I did inform you about my intention taking it, so you could have written something like: "Yes, take all provinces exept 289 - it was mine, I'm retaking it." Please read diplomacy messages more carefuly, and give more specific answers next time.

[Executor]

Do not trust Agartha for they are oathbreakers, we received a message saying they will honer our 3 turn NAP before any hostile activities, and suddenly they attacked.

We are sure we can handle them on our own, but now we offer to any nation that declares war on Agartha 80 water, 40 earth, 40 astral, 40 fire gems.

To the Nation who captures their Capital we shall send Aurgelmer and 100 blood slaves.

[WingedDog]

The Vanheim seems to be staling again. Should we search for the sub already?

[Executor]

Told you so...

[WingedDog]

Executor
I see... Met him before?

[Executor]

He's in another game where I'm in and he isn't staling there. Radioheart right?
Anyway Vanheim is behind very badly and they'd be done with in a couple of turns if Agartha didn't interfere.

I've even PM'd him but he never answered.

[Slobby]

Executor
I see... Met him before?

No, Executor claimed that he'd pew pew pwn the sub (not his exact words lol)and that I'd be needing to find another sub. Which it looks like I will have to.

[Radioheart]

Err, hey yeah sorry about that. Still here though. Had a hard time getting a handle on the Van in this game, and I didn't mean to stale these past two turns. Just not much I can do with an income nearly all spent on upkeep and no real class A mages at hand.

Mostly making a turn wouldn't be so different from a stale, though I suspect Mictlan would've been battered by a half dozen more Blights.

Will try and work harder. Hah. Haven't looked at the newest turn yet, so hope there is still something to work with.

[karnoza]

I can play for Van's. :)

[WingedDog]

Slobby
karnoza is the player I PMed you about.

[Slobby]

AI after 2 stale, without contact.


Well looks like I'll have to be a hardass yet again. Radioheart while your subbing has been appreciated, you're out and Karnoza is in. Karnoza send me a pm with your email and I'll get you set up.

Note that I will most likely extend the current turn by 24-48 hours due to the time differences between Karnoza and I, so that he'll have a chance to familiarize himself with the position.

I apologize for the delay all, and appreciate your patience.

[karnoza]

Greetings to all. As a sub I have some questions:
1. Can you write me here or through PM about current pacts with other nations?
2. I propose standart NAP 3 to everyone except Mictlan.

[Executor]

Hahaha, why so hostile?

[Executor]

So I guess this might be considered a World War against Mictlan ah?
So far 4 nations, who else might join???

This is really pathetic, 4 against 1 and yet you use exploits and break NAPs.

Vanheim, sneaking an army away from a siege is considered a exploit.

[Slobby]

Vanheim, sneaking an army away from a siege is considered a exploit.

I wouldn't consider moving stealth units out of a siege situation an exploit. I believe you were thinking of the bug reported in post 14 in the bug thread shortlist at the following link,

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=33557&page=2

The movement of non stealth units led by a stealthy commander was the bug, which I would agree to be an exploit. However, it is reported as fixed. I've tried to reproduce it and cannot, so I can only assume Van led stealth units out, which I believe is WAD.

[Executor]

Oh, my apologies you are correct, I misinterpreted that expoit. However I ever dislike NAP breakers and if you're gonna go 2,3,4 against one, you might at least have the courtesy to say, I declare war and wait those 3 turns. OR honer the NAP once you say: 'I declare war and will honer our NAP', and than attack before it ends. Those are low tactics.

[JimMorrison]

So I guess this might be considered a World War against Mictlan ah?
So far 4 nations, who else might join???


I just came as a representative from Caelum, in the Standards game. We are officially declaring war on Mictlan in this game.

Take that!

[Slobby]

Oh, my apologies you are correct, I misinterpreted that expoit. However I ever dislike NAP breakers and if you're gonna go 2,3,4 against one, you might at least have the courtesy to say, I declare war and wait those 3 turns. OR honer the NAP once you say: 'I declare war and will honer our NAP', and than attack before it ends. Those are low tactics.

That's a bit more of sticky situation, and I really don't know if there's anything that can be done. This game was made before the great debate on the meaning of NAPs and as such there is nothing stating what NAPs mean, or whether or not they should be binding or mere lip service.

On the plus side it could have been 5 on 1, as I was seriously thinking of attacking you to.

[Executor]

If someone chooses to break a NAP is their decision, but it gives a bad reputation, and I watch and conspire against those players in any other games as do other players I presume. Once someone crosses you over you tend to lose confidence in him.

Now seeing what type of players are in this game, I very well may decide to kill the game by casting Armagedon several times, or utherdark and spells alike.
What would that be considered?

[Slobby]

Now seeing what type of players are in this game, I very well may decide to kill the game by casting Armagedon several times, or utherdark and spells alike.
What would that be considered?

That's entirely your perogative. Although in all honesty how many players of this game have screwed you over? There are 8 players left not including yourself, you're at war with 4 of them, and 2-3 may have back stabbed you. So you're hurting atleast 5 other players for no reason.

To be honest at first I did feel bad for you, however I now recall that you're in Timewarp, a game where back stabbing is allowed (and is spelled out as such in the opening thread). You say you're all about keeping your pacts, etc. and yet you signed up for a game that's the complete opposite. :confused: With your dominant position in Timewarp, I'll give the following advice, trust no one, because other players will probably turn on you soon enough.

Imo it seems to me that you're more upset over being dealt a losing hand, within 1-2 turns, after months of manoevering to your current position...sure it sucks, but there can only be one.

It's funny that I feel all your anger is directed at me and yet I've done nothing to you, thems the breaks of being the admin I guess.

[Executor]

No my anger isn't directed at you slobby, when everyone started avoiding my PM's then I realised what was being organized, World War against Mictlan.

Probably a smart call too since I was maybe second on score graphs but you really can't tell who's stronger, me or Cealum, who is being left alone all game by the way and will probably win.

I do uphold my pacts, ALWAYS. I joined Timewarp because I wanted to try a big game and yes I know you organized it. And as far diplomacy goes, if NAP breaking is ok that still doesn't mean everybody's gonna break them. And if they are not ok that doesn't mean everybody is gonna respect that, so it makes little difference what you said in the thread.

"Imo it seems to me that you're more upset over being dealt a losing hand"

Yes, true, 4 against 1 isn't a winning combination, I don't like giving time to a game that I know I'm gonna lose, but keep in mind that I can make a big influence on who wins the game. So come and get it, we've got: Chalice, Boots of Planes, Sicle, A.o.Virtue, Dimension Rod, Aurgelmer, Unquenched Sword, The Sceptre and various other unique items, and whole bunch of gems that we'll decide who to give.

[MadFrancis]

If someone chooses to break a NAP is their decision, but it gives a bad reputation, and I watch and conspire against those players in any other games as do other players I presume. Once someone crosses you over you tend to lose confidence in him.

Now seeing what type of players are in this game, I very well may decide to kill the game by casting Armagedon several times, or utherdark and spells alike.
What would that be considered?


You keep speaking as if you are innocent. I recieved reports that YOU broke YOUR NAP with my ALLY. Seeing as how I don't have an email ever stating that you and I had a NAP I felt obliged to assist my ALLY.

Spin it how you want. Those who know the truth will merely chuckle as the seeds one sows come back to haunt the sower.

[Executor]

What the hell are you talking about???

I didn't break the NAP, I waited until it was over and attacked.

How would I even have your email address to send you an email? We agreed on a NAP on either on a PM or in-game message, not sure how but I'm sure that there was one.

I'm not spinning anything, clearly you are.
I have the turn where you stated, I declare war and will honor our 3 turn NAP, and than you attacked.

If Vanheim was your ally, than with which ruler were you allied with since this is the third one I'm in war with, so was it Karnoza, Radioheart or who ever was before him?

Do you have any idea how ridicules that what you said sounds? You disregarded our NAP because I attacked your ally ( which you didn't either say he was, so I couldn't have knowen ), even after you stated you WOULD honor it and wait the 3 turns.

[MadFrancis]

Do you have any idea how ridicules that what you said sounds? You disregarded our NAP because I attacked your ally ( which you didn't either say he was, so I couldn't have knowen ), even after you stated you WOULD honor it and wait the 3 turns.


I, as a sub for Agartha, have never made a NAP with you. so stop your raving. When i subbed in everyone else PMed me over the forums or through email (since you can't keep track of these things in game) and arranged for our relations to be agreed upon. Even those who were at war with Agartha at the time. I got nothing from you, except a PM asking for hammers.

[Executor]

IF that was even the cast, which it isn't since we DID HAVE A NAP, why would you state that out you are canceling it?

[Executor]

HA LIAR!
I just found the turn where you agreed to a NAP. Turn 40 message sent to you, turn 42 answer arrived where you agreed to a NAP.

What do you have to say about that?

[MadFrancis]

IF that was even the cast, which it isn't since we DID HAVE A NAP, why would you state that out you are canceling it?

I thought we did, but then I checked my records and it was actually Marverni, so it was a missend. The only message from you I have ever recieved was a PM over the forums asking if I was playing agartha and if so if you could buy some hammers, (which I responded "yes I have hammers but I will not be selling them to you". Your response indicated you got the message clearly). Why would you think that we had a NAP when we never made a NAP. Obviously the message was a mistaken. You can cry all you want. But you and I, my friend, never made a NAP. All my neighbors did though, including the ones you attacked.

[MadFrancis]

HA LIAR!
I just found the turn where you agreed to a NAP. Turn 40 message sent to you, turn 42 answer arrived where you agreed to a NAP.

What do you have to say about that?

in game? hmm ... weird. well I cant keep track of things that are only in game especially as that was one of the first turns I played I believe as Agartha and was getting messsages from all sorts of people (most of them were actually reasonable human beings and did it over the forums though). A begginner's mistake I guess. I'll not be making that mistake again. I'll stop attacking you for three turns.

My apologies.

By the way, how do you recall that info, it might come in handy when trying to keep this stuff straight, oh never mind. I just won't deal with in game messages other than to tell people if they have something to say, do it over the forums or through emails so a person can reasonably be expected to keep track of these things.

And maybe if you want these things to be actually remembered and honored you should take the time to do so yourself. And maybe you should not lose your **** over something like this. I mean calling me a liar because I don't remember two ingame messages that happened nearly twenty turns ago. Sheesh.

[Executor]

You should keep track of your treaty's with other players.

I looked which turn you took over Agartha and went trough my mail for earlier turns since I knew we had a NAP.

What's done is done, I've proven my self correct and I am not asking for cease of hostilities. I never had a problem with anyone attacking me but I did with NAP breaking, that was my only point, so continue the war, no breaks.

[MadFrancis]

You should keep track of your treaty's with other players.

If you want that you should make treaties you want remembered through means with which players can keep track of these things. I'm pretty sure Dom3 doesn't have an in-game treaty tracker, which is why everyone else used other methods.

If you rely on unreliable methods, expect unreliable results. I admit that I have a memory that will lose tracks of such things after a couple of months, but I certainly am no breaker of formal agreements or a liar.

You may be "correct", but certainly you are not justified.

[Executor]

I don't usually use the in game messages, only sometimes in the begining when I don't expect much diplomacy, but that doesn't mean that it would be disregarded.
Even so, if you get a PM about a treaty that isn't much different from the in game system, just faster. You'll lose track there in a few month also, there is a limit of 300 messages max.
It makes little difference how a treaty is made, the important thing is that there is one.

I tend to write down my treaty's from various games so this doesn't happen, I suggest the same.

[MadFrancis]

I don't usually use the in game messages, only sometimes in the beginning when I don't expect much diplomacy, but that doesn't mean that it would be disregarded.
Even so, if you get a PM about a treaty that isn't much different from the in game system, just faster. You'll lose track there in a few month also, there is a limit of 300 messages max.
It makes little difference how a treaty is made, the important thing is that there is one.

I tend to write down my treaty's from various games so this doesn't happen, I suggest the same.

I fail to see how writing it down would make it any more reliable than an email or a PM, and really the issue is an aside.

My main point is:

Before you fly off the handle accusing people personally of being liars and cheats you should calm down first and maybe just send a message saying,
"Hey, we only ever talked about this in-game so maybe you forgot, but we had a NAP and I see you have attacked me."
My response would have been just as reasonable, at which point things could have been handled much more amiably.

Simple as that.

Also, a handy tip.
You can download your message files as an html file or such for archival pruposes. A simpler standard, I think, than writing down all in game messages on paper (which weren't diregarded by the way, just forgotten and missed in the shuffle with no way to refer back).

[Executor]

You're missing my point,
I ment it as a way to keep track who you have a treaty with, so my scenario doesn't happen again, not for the sake of other people but for you. If someone wants to disregard a NAP he'll do it be it signed by a PM, Email or In game message, it makes no difference.

My first reaction was a post saying that you broke the NAP which you said you'd uphold. It met no answer, so I continued as nothing had happened, but the matter reopened when I was backstabbed once again and than you claimed we never even had a NAP. Now that one did make me "fly off the handle"

[MadFrancis]

Try a PM next time, your much more likely to get a response. Public accusations and denouncements are hardly amiable first responses to a problem. Rather than assuming everyone is a liar and an honor-less dog, maybe a quick PM to see if it was a mistake and allow people to do the right thing. If you do not give me a chance to behave decently how can I ever prove to you that I would? Again I'm sorry for the mistake, but next time try and refrain from public denouncements of my character until you have at least messaged me first ...

[Executor]

You had plenty time to explain you self when I stated that you broken your NAP, but you chose not to.

"Rather than assuming everyone is a liar and an honor-less dog"

Not everyone, just those who really are honorless and will not state that there is even a remote chance that they could be wrong.

I did get a responce from Sauromatia, can't say he's right, but I did get an answer at least.

And if you do not trust in game system that much why do you use it yourself?

EDIT: by the way your action at that point clearly showed that you broke the NAP on purpose, it turned not to be so, but if someone did the same thing against you what would you think?

[MadFrancis]

You had plenty time to explain you self when I stated that you broken your NAP, but you chose not to.
I did not "choose" to be unresponsive, I simply never read (or posted in, for that matter) the "Beer" thread until today. I have stated in another thread that as a full-time student and employee I don't have time to read threads. I check everyday for emails and PMs, that's it usually. Unfortunately I cannot devout my life and all my time to this game, otherwise I assure you I would have responded to these uncalled for libelous attacks. The only reason I have responded so much today is because I am on winter break, which started this week. So I did not "hear" of any of these accusations until today, at which point I responded.

"Rather than assuming everyone is a liar and an honor-less dog" Not everyone, just those who really are honorless and will not state that there is even a remote chance that they could be wrong. I did get a responce from Sauromatia, can't say he's right, but I did get an answer at least.

And mistakes make people honorless? That's pretty ridiculous.

And if you do not trust in game system that much why do you use it yourself?

EDIT: by the way your action at that point clearly showed that you broke the NAP on purpose, it turned not to be so, but if someone did the same thing against you what would you think?

I generally don't, after I got confused from too many messages in game I started replying to people over the forums because I was having trouble keeping track of what agreements the previous player had made with his neighbors and where I stood coming as a sub. Like I said, I never heard anything from you out of game so your messages were forgotten, a mistake, but an honerst one. Anyone who messaged me over the forums was not forgotten and has been treated fairly and honestly.

If someone did that to me I would do exactly as I suggested anyone do. Give people a chance to actually behave well instead of just assuming they are not. Maybe I am an idealist, but at least I don't make an *** of myself by whining and moaning and calling people names puiblicly without being certain that I am justified to do so.

I apologized for the mistake, proven that it was honest and understandable and offered to make ammends, and yet I still haven't heard you apologize for your public abuse. At this point you have proven yourself unreasonable and I wont be dealing with you any longer since it will obviously be a waste of time.

One last piece of advice before I am done though. This is JUST a game in the end. Try and keep that in mind the next time you feel like abusing real people over it.

[Executor]

"And mistakes make people honorless? That's pretty ridiculous."

Mistakes don't make people honorless

But, What you are constantly failing to realise is that your attack didn't seem like a mistake at that moment. You said you'd honer the NAP and then you attacked, that doesn't seem like a mistake to me.

"but at least I don't make an *** of myself by whining and moaning and calling people names puiblicly without being certain that I am justified to do so."

First of all I'm not either moaning or calling anyone names, if I was believe me you'd know, I had already let the matter with you go away as it happened over half a month ago (there was only one single post calling you an oathbreaker and a bounty on your capital, which I consider is by no means offensive to ANYONE).
My post wasn't directed to you but to WingedDog who did break the NAP on purpose as he explained. NOTHING POSTED RECENTLY was directed to you. You were the one that started this row and getting at me as if I was Hitler or something so I really don't know what your problem is?

I explained myslef and Slobby seemed to understand what I was saying about being jumped on and backstabbed, but than you jumped in with statements that I'm spinning something and that I'm the real oathbreaker and that "Those who know the truth will merely chuckle as the seeds one sows come back to haunt the sower" what ever the hell that means??? And that I'm raving and crying over the NAP that you said on several occasion we never HAD, which I proven you incorrect.

So maybe you should reconsider what you've been directing at me and calm down youself a little.

"and yet I still haven't heard you apologize for your public abuse. At this point you have proven yourself unreasonable and I wont be dealing with you any longer since it will obviously be a waste of time."

Public abuse? Towards who?? Slobby, Karnoza, WingedDog???
Maybe I do come out a little unreasonable but I'm certainly not the only one.

This was never supposed to became personal, I stated that you're (plural as in more than 1 player) using low tactics and you made it look personal.

If I offended someone, which I'm certain I dind't, I apologize to them but not to you as maybe I'm wrong but the is no chance that you are correct.