Chronicles_MA - General Game Discussion

[Lokean]

Well, since the game's now up and running I'm going to split this thread and the other one and sort out the EA game in there...

[Juffos]

Extra roleplay is always delicious.

[DonCorazon]

Sounds fun, I'd be up for it.

[Tifone]

Seems great, I too was thinking (without having read of Baalz' idea) about creating a roleplay/dar/aar-heavy MP game.

I'd be up for this gladly but unfortunately, only if it would have 48hrs timer (even with quickhost), or even 24hrs but without quickhost... university schedules s*ck. :D If not, don't worry about me, my english is unluckily quite poor so I wouldn't possibly be able to write something truly epic anyway :(

The idea is anyway very nice and I wish you best luck with this, I would read with passion :) My personal suggestion for you is to go for the CBM. As it makes many spells and Pretenders much more viable and interesting, you would have diversified and enjoyable reports, instead of maybe having 3 or 4 nations with Cyclopses going for similar strategies... ;)

[hunt11]

This game sounds more fun then a barrel of monkeys :D
I am up for this.

[Hadrian_II]

I would be interested in playing in this game.

[djo]

Thoughts from the "Yarnspinners 2" game in Dominions 2 (search the forums, it's all still there):

-- writing even one contribution per week is hard to keep up, so don't have the turns too often
-- crowded map! the best stories come when nations interact, so make that happen early
-- consider de-incentivizing the elimination of players (no VP in capitals?); it sucks to get knocked out if you're having fun writing

Yarnspinners 2 was a whole lot of fun. Hope you can get this one going. In the past, heavy RP games have had bad luck.

[Lokean]

Well, it looks like there's sufficient interest to pursue the idea, so here's a few of my thoughs/preferences.

CBM would certainly be an important choice, and I'm in favor of it, specifically because it promotes diversity, rather than having the midgame AARs all consist of "[My puny mage groupies cast spells on me/I cast spells on me] and I smashed the entire opposing army with my magic sword"

Given whay djo says, I broadly agree. An alternative would be to use one of the maps with specific VP sites, but the only ones I'm aware of are the ones on the Llamaserver, so suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

I was initially thinking of doing the first few turns as 24 or 48 hour quickhost, while the initial expansion goes on, then throttling back to between 72 and 120 fixed hosting. As I see it, the difficulty is more to do with having something you wish to write about, rather than the time and effort to write it. A reasonable hosting time allows players that feel inspired to thrash something out during a single turn without people that don't feel like writing something getting too drained by the delays.

Depending on the number of players, I would probably set an expected contribution rate at once a fortnight, which would mean that the tales would be coming in almost daily, on average, if people can keep up that pace. More, of course, would be better.

What I'd really be interested in trying would be a map that had starting positions for every nation of the age chosen and victory point locations that were special sites of interest. However, that would mean making a new map, which is quite a lot of work.

[quantum_mechani]

Have you considered using the dawn of dominions scenario?

Oh, and I'd definitely be interested in this game.

[Lokean]

It's too uneven, really. Since there's no built in victory condition the odds are good that some nations would simply get obliterated early.

[Zeldor]

Can I be LA Ermor? :) Or Ashdod at least?

[Lokean]

Yes you can, and you can have a special starting location that links directly to eight other regions...

All of which are deep sea regions, all of which have zero income.

[Tifone]

I personally don't think everybody will write every turn. Spoiling your tactics when you're still working on them, giving away precious informations talking about your important battle the very turn you won/lost it, or just those turns when nothing happens... :D I think it will be more likely that people interested in writing during the game will do it once every 3-4-5 turns not to spoil their tactics immediately and just to find their muse ;) Of course, as you said, many players will make for stories to come more often :up:

If you're planning turns long enough and it's ok for you, I hope you'll keep a lil' spot for me :p But before deciding the map I suggest to wait for a decided number of players (as djo suggested, a crowded map seems a great idea, at least for the variety).

Oh, if i can make my last suggestion (I hope you aren't finding me intrusive, I'm just chatting and advicing friendly :) ) I'd tell you to at least -consider-, on the basis of the dimension of the map also, going for easy magic research. Tales of wild spells and enchantments, enormous summons and legendary artifact are much more interesting than the simple steamrolling national army going around - and with turns eventually being long, getting to the interesting part early would boost the attention IMHO. :smirk:

All from me. Best regards!

[Zeldor]

If I get LA Ermor I can promise to report growth of Empire of Darkness every turn! [muahahahaha!]

[hunt11]

Then can I get Hinnom. You can never have too many stories about evil demonic giants eating everything under the sun. :D

[Zeldor]

To be honest I think that Niefel, Hinnom and Ashdod are the nations that would totally own Ermor in 1:1 fight.

[Lokean]

Right, if you're not in the list in the first post and are interested and willing to keep up a narrative, please say so. I'll give it a few days then start organising things.

[Zeldor]

PM Kristoffer O about that game, it could be fun if we could get him here :) And I probably vote on LA, as it has the most vibrant and polarized nations, best for storytelling.

[sansanjuan]

Sounds fun. I'm in.
-SSJ

[hunt11]

I would prefer EA (not because of hinnom)

[Lokean]

On the matter of which era people prefer, one thing I'm considering is allowing the custom mod nations. They're usually reasonably balanced, and they have the advantage that if somebosy wants to play them it's almost certainly out of a love for that nation's style, which increases the chance that they'll be able to keep up the writing.

[hunt11]

How about the single age mod as well? It would allow everybody to use their nation of choice.

[Lokean]

But then I'd have three times as many anthropophagous giants to contend with!

Also, I'm not too sure that the Single Age mod would be compatible with the mod nations. If a nation modder could verify/deny that it's possible I'd appreciate it.

[Wrana]

I would like to take part, though am not sure about the shedule. Also, I would personally prefer Early Age for such a game - more different races and more magic. On the other hand, I wouldn't make research Easy - it may get out of hand too fast!
Considering maps I also like Dawn of Dominions. Other possibilities I'd like to mention are Hyborean Age (maybe too small for # of nations - but you mentioned crouded map!), Pangaean Earth, Tyrande... And one other map you probably should consider is World of Geometry/Symmetry!

[Tifone]

Pangean is a very nice map but with no chokepoints I think it would be a very dispersive game...

Any era works for me really :) As we started talking about nations, I (surely too innocently and naively :angel ) hope ppl will choose their nations more because they feel the mood of them (thus providing better entertainment for everybody with inspired reports and stories) than to just pwn the game - not that it would be bad, stories of bloody triumphs are always epic, but still... :D

[Zeldor]

Tifone:

Hmm... that puts me closer to Niefelheim as a choice :)


Rip their flesh
Burn their hearts
Stab them in the eyes
Rape their women as they cry
Kill their servants
Burn their homes
Till there's no blood left to spill
Hail and Kill
Power and dominion are taken by the will
By divine right hail and kill

[quantum_mechani]

It's too uneven, really. Since there's no built in victory condition the odds are good that some nations would simply get obliterated early.
I'm not sure it's that uneven, compared to an average map. RP wise I don't think getting completely wiped out is a huge issue- anyone that wants to keep up a guerrilla campaign can usually do so almost indefinitely. Anyway, I'd certainly volunteer for one of the 'at risk' nation and probably other vets would do the same.

I just think it would be hard to find a more perfect map for RP purposes.

[Lokean]

I don't see why it could be thought of as a particularly good map for RP in general, or a narrative game such as I'm proposing in particular. I suppose the province names and poptypes being specifically chosen to reflect the terrain and proximity to nations is nice, but that's about it.

Plus, it restricts the possible nations, which is definitely going to hurt the chances of getting people writing, since there's less freedom to pick and play a nation you love.

If this one goes off acceptably I might make a semi-regular feature of it and put together pseudo-scenario maps for future games.

[llamabeast]

Re mods: yep, you can use mod nations along with the single age mod. Just make sure to use mod nations from the middle age. If you want to use late age nations you'll just have to modify them to make them middle age (which is trivial to do, I can help if there are any difficulties).

I recommend using mod nations by the way, they are generally thematically excellent. The ones listed on the LlamaServer are all recommended by me. Someone play Tomb Kings!

[Lokean]

And I suppose most mod nations are unlikely to use the same nation number, yes?

[llamabeast]

Yep. All the ones from the same age are compatible. If you want to use some from a different age then it's worth checking. Easily fixed though.

[llamabeast]

Oh yeah, and it's a good idea to PM KO, he might be interested.

[Hadrian_II]

If there are mod nations included, i think i will go with the Skaven.

[Kristoffer O]

Hi, thanks for the invitation. I am interested, but I just signed up for another game that is on turn 3 now. I need to consider a bit.

How frequent hosting and how frequent AAR's are we talking about?
Should the AAR's be individual or organized collectively in some way?

[Lokean]

Early hosting would be as fast as people were comfortable with (probably for the first six to ten turns, where everyone is essentially 'setting up' their expansion), but that could easily be 48h quickhost. After that, slowing considerably, probably to 96h or 120h. It would be a very slow game by the standards most MP players seem to prefer, but I think it will need it.

Depending on player population I was hoping to convince people to get something written once a fortnight, which is roughly once every three turns. I'm not necessarily asking for AARs (though they'd probably be a big part of it) but just something that exists broadly within the world of Dominions. It could be an entry in the diary of the Prophet talking about the nation's activities (if it's from three turns ago it's not exactly going to give much away, after all), it could be a discussion of battle plans between troop commanders and mages. Consider something as simple as this one, from Caelum in the Dominions 2 game 'Yarnspinners' (http://yarnspinners.improbable.org/index.php?title=YS1:CaelumTurn2)

I think initially it would be easiest to either just have people shove them on here or use the old wiki from the Yarnspinners games.

[Ruminant]

Mmm, the idea certainly captures the imagination. Assuming theres still room, I'd be happy to participate.

[Vanslime]

I wouldn't mind giving it a try, if you can find some place to put me in.I'm not much good at the game, but I like to think I'm a decent writer,at least.

[sansanjuan]

Depending on player population I was hoping to convince people to get something written once a fortnight, which is roughly once every three turns. I'm not necessarily asking for AARs (though they'd probably be a big part of it) but just something that exists broadly within the world of Dominions. It could be an entry in the diary of the Prophet talking about the nation's activities (if it's from three turns ago it's not exactly going to give much away, after all), it could be a discussion of battle plans between troop commanders and mages.

I thought of a couple angles

... a prostitute following a battalion's campaign

... war rumors heard in the capital by a scullery maid

... propoganda laden news releases

... a non believer's perspective

... a spy's/assassin's adventures

-SSJ

[Ylvali]

I played a game that turned out something like this, it was my best one yet. I´d love to play this one if there is room for me.

[djo]

I think initially it would be easiest to either just have people shove them on here or use the old wiki from the Yarnspinners games.

Unfortunately, the player who hosted the YS2 wiki did not make the jump to Dominions 3.

The wiki was nice, but the forum works well enough.


I am intrigued by this game, but I don't think I can make time for it. Ironically, I am also in the game KO is in. But I will keep an eye on your proposed hosting speed just in case.

[Kristoffer O]

Sounds like I can manage the amount of writing. I'm in.

Hmm, I've only joined two simultaneous games once before in my life :)

[Lokean]

Well, K_O, I suppose I'm honoured on behalf of the reading public...;)

djo: Um, I've just gone and made an account for the YS wiki and cleaned out all the random links to cialis adverts on the main page (which somebody seems to have started filling it with some time this year). So it's actually still usable.

[djo]

It might be a good idea to try to contact puffyn and ask permission. S/he was a good person and deserves the courtesy.

When I am back home after the holiday, I may try to find an email address for them.

[puffyn]

Yeah, I sort of fell off the Dominions wagon. Anyhow, I'd be happy to let you guys use the wiki if you'd like. Thanks for cleaning up the link-spam, Lokean. I think there's some way to restrict new users, which I may try to figure out how to turn on in order to cut down on some of that crap. I'll be in touch by e-mail with the details.

Yarnspinners was a lot of fun. I look forward to lurking, and maybe reading your stories will motivate me to dust of my copy of Dom 3.

[Otherling]

I love the concept of this, and I figure I've got room for one more ongoing game. Do you have room for one more?

[Zapmeister]

This concept sounds quite similar to a game I started back in the days of Dom2, call "Yarnspinners". In that game, writing your AAR was the main point and that was reflected in the rules of the game as follows:

1. Each turn, each player submitted a couple of paragraphs of narrative to an independant, non-playing gamemaster that scored the submision as follows:

- 0 points if nothing was submitted
- 1 point for overly terse (one-liner) or excessively verbose submissions
- 2 points for anything else

After a nominated number of turns (I think we chose 60) the game ends and nations are awarded further points for being the front-runner (10 points) or runner-up (5 points) in each of the score graphs except army size.

Nation with the most points is the winner. The idea was popular enough to spawn a second game (Yarnspinners2) although I wasn't involved with that, and I think they tweaked the rules a little.

Anyways, good luck with Chronicles!

Zap

[djo]

In YS2, we ditched the points. We had a neutral nation that handed out astral pearls for each posted story.

In my opnion, people are going to write or not regardless of reward. As long as people are into it, you'll get good stories.

[Lokean]

It might be a good idea to try to contact puffyn and ask permission. S/he was a good person and deserves the courtesy.

When I am back home after the holiday, I may try to find an email address for them.

First thing I did was email the person who owns the domain, who could well be puffyn, too.

EDIT: And who appears to be a web developer, if the blog on there is anything to go by.

[calmon]

I would like to join this game.

I prefer a "normal" game with VPs and a lot of writing/AARs.

I'm not such a fan for giving points/awards for paragraphs submitted. If people don't want to write they don't need to join the game. There are enough others...

[Gandalf Parker]

This is one of the few games offered that have tempted me to play (as me).

So just to toss in my 2-cent opinons.
Dawn is a good map but might be limiting here. Id prefer a really large random map. Especially if modded nations are added as it can drive the number of players quite high. Most know that I prefer maps with high mountains in order to generate more choke points. I think those AAR well. Like this...
http://www.dom3minions.com/RandomMaps/TriMega.jpg

Normally I like what VPs do to games but how would you AAR it? How do you recognize a VP in role? "I am proceeding toward the important province to the north"? Unless the VPs are just capitals of course, then its simple.

Heros mod would be good, nations would be fine. Im not sure if any others would be a good idea (except maybe single age if there is enough interest).

I prefer Era 1, Hall of Fame 15, Renaming on, Indepts 9, magic sites higher than average for AAR. Maybe noscoregraphs for AAR sake.

[Tifone]

I'm totally with mr. Gandalf for a large random map with many chokepoints ;)

VP in role we could talk about them like important points from which pass the vectors of the world (a lÃ* Black Tower of Stephen King) which the people somehow know (or have a confused idea) they must control in order to leth their god ascend. If someone could also mod the VP to be also "many sites" provinces it would be perfect IMHO :cool:

[Hadrian_II]

I would prefer if it would be a game without VPs, as they promote strange Airdrop operations that are not really explainable in a RP way. Or then make it like King of the Hill that there are some provinces containing the shrines that have to be controlled to cast the spell of ascension. So you have to conquer all shrines and hold them for 3 months to finish the spell of ascension (Even with normal VPs the holding part is important, as it gives people chance to defend against strange air drops). But i would not use the game VP victory function, as it will make the game to come to a very abrupt ending.

Also i would not change indys, as it breaks some nations expansion. I would also vote for HoF 15 and higher magic. Maybe even higher gold and resources.

Also maybe some house rule, that every army has to include at least 3 troop types with over 20% share of total, so that it is encouraged to create differentiated armies with more flavor over min-maxed ones that are made of almost only one troop type.

Also there might be some gamey strategys that should be banned in advance, to create a more rpg-kind of atmosphere.

[Tifone]

Personally I don't think I could manage strange rules :shock: Little and overloaded memory and low playing experience make a bad synergy to cope with this... :o

PS: Hey Gandalf, that map is a...wow! What about even a sepia effect for the map, like the one you and others were discussing about in that thread a couple of weeks ago..? :)

[lch]

It might be a good idea to try to contact puffyn and ask permission. S/he was a good person and deserves the courtesy.

When I am back home after the holiday, I may try to find an email address for them.

First thing I did was email the person who owns the domain, who could well be puffyn, too.
AFAIK the guy who owns the domain is known here as Sedna, Puffyn is his wife.

[Gandalf Parker]

PS: Hey Gandalf, that map is a...wow! What about even a sepia effect for the map, like the one you and others were discussing about in that thread a couple of weeks ago..? :)

Thanks. Thats available on my download page.
http://www.dom3minions.com/downloads.htm

I set colors and map settings when I generate maps. I hate snow and snow-looking maps. I also dislike plains that are brown. The settings are scripted so it would be really easy to generate a batch of maps if we decide we needed one that was 250 or 500 or whatever provinces. Like this page of my current project maps.
http://www.dom3minions.com/RandomMaps/maxs/keepers/Keepers.htm

I have been playing with running them thru programs to lower the number of colors in the map in order to make the file size smaller for laptop players and people with low memory. But that project got pushed aside by other. Thanks for reminding me.

[Wrana]

I agree that a number of chokepoints on a map ia always good. Though I don't like random maps as they were some time ago (don't know whether 3.20-3.21 made them better)...
And I agree with Tifone that there ARE good rationalizations for VP provinces... And iirc there was some way to make such provinces contain more sites. Maybe a "hold for 3 turns" version is really better for this game, though. But in any case VPs add one more strategic dimension and eliminate over-bogged-down games...

[Wrana]

And my most sincere thanks for a project to decrease mapfile sizes! Last time I tried your map I couldn't find patience enough for it to finish loading... ;) Though as seen through viewer, it was quite good-looking... :(

[quantum_mechani]

I think as djo said having a small map is really important. A large map not only causes much more micromanagement as the game drags on, it delays the time until AARs get interactive. Then there is the fact that if the stories revolves around particular commanders, the bigger the map the more there are and the less actually important they are. In particular a random map seems a bit counter to a RP game given how generic they look.

[Hadrian_II]

Maybe the Faerun Adventure Map would be nice?

[Zeldor]

I support QM on the organisation ideas.

[Kristoffer O]

I also prefer smaller maps. Especially in an RP setting.

I'm also for VP's. It gives the game an end and something RP'ish to fight for. The end might be abrupt, but that doesn't limit the RP/writing joy of the game up to that time.

I consider the writing and RP stuff the most fun part of this kind of game and I will assume that this goes for most people. Thus we are less intent on winning, and more intent on creating interesting stories of a new world :)

When you have all adopted this doctrine and sit and scribble great literature by candle light I will slaughter you all and claim what is mine! :)

[Executor]

I'm also interested if this would be a slow game.

[Alneyan]

I won't even think of joining this game as my track record is even worse than it was back in the days of Yarnspinners... I'll volunteer if you need an overseer Ã* la Yarnspinners 2, though.

(The overseer nation was responsible for handing out astral pearls, but it seems you won't go for that this time around, and taking snapshots of the map, but lch has another way of achieving that.

It might also be interesting to give vague graph info as opposed to the in-game graphs or nothing at all... so you'd get some sort of idea of how the nations rank compared to each other every few turns, but nothing more specific. I've done that in Entwined Destinies on Yvelina's suggestion)

[Lokean]

Well, I think I've read enough to put up my thoughts on things.

Size of map & structure of terrain: I would suggest that most starting locations should have no more than a three province buffer between them, since a lot of the intrinsic tension of any narratives from the game would arise from the presence of competitors for 'ascension'. However, I don't want neighbours to have to destroy one another. Thus, a map which has a fairly large amount of available terrain and plenty of choke-points would be nice, but a high concentration of starting locations would also be nice. I shall have to have a browse through some possible maps and see what I can see.

VPs: I still prefer a VP scenario, since it provides a goal beyond genocide. In light of a few suggestions, I think cumulative VPs would work very well. Assume that VP provinces are a conflux of ley lines, a holy site &c &c. Every summer solstice rituals can be performed which further a Pretender's rise to true godhood. What exactly the sites are is really up to the belief system of the nation, but regardless of the beliefs, they still work.
One potential setup would have many provinces worth one VP per summer and some worth more. With a plurality of sites to nations it becomes possible to try and put together a strategy of attacking high VP sites in early summer and trying to hold them for a turn or controlling a lot of low VP sites.
I'm not sure whether it's tenable, but it may be possible to hide the VP sites, such that a nation only knows that it is one once they've claimed it. This would probably mean manually setting each VP site to have a specific magical site that does not appear in normal play.

It's starting to look like it might be easier to put together a map myself than find one that suits my needs, but I'd rather have plently of players than a game that exactly matches my preferences, so people's thoughts would be appreciated.

If I end up making a map for it, what would people think of these two concepts:
1. Undiscovered continent/island. All the starting locations are situated along the sea border of a landmass, with the interior being virgin territory. VPs would be sites of natural power that could further the Pretenders' quests for godhood. Obviously it's a little odd that the capital sites are present, but perhaps they represent supplies and troops arriving from 'home'.
2. Inverted circle. Think of an inversion of the World of Geometry. The starting locations are clustered in valleys surrounding a central peak. They may have a few independant provinces that are equally sheltered, but then open up to contact from neighbouring regions. Obviously this would be quite fiddly with a large number of nations, but I think something could be worked out. Here, basically, there's plenty of territory further away from the center, but your nation becomes increasingly decentralised and difficult to defend, while your neighbours are always close by and competing for space.


Thoughts? Am I going too far for a first sally, or is it worth putting the effort in early? Are there maps that would probably do fine with the addition of VP locations? Am I an idiot?

Inquiring minds want to know.

[quantum_mechani]

Thoughts? Am I going too far for a first sally, or is it worth putting the effort in early? Are there maps that would probably do fine with the addition of VP locations? Am I an idiot?

Inquiring minds want to know.I think failing Dawn of Dominions, Orania might be just about perfect for this many players, might save a lot of trouble.

[Tifone]

Mmh... I'm for VPs too but cumulative VPs seem a little too hard to rationalize for RPs...

[Kristoffer O]

Purification of the divine soul? Each month basking in the splendour of a celestial nexus annihilates the terrestrial fetters of your divine soul.

[Tifone]

Nice, KO. I was more thinking on the line of: "Twelve of the sixteen vectors, from which the energies which sustain the world flow, are finally under the control of the hordes of Yomi. Twelve Demon Priests in those distant parts of the world intone a cacophonic litany of the Netherworld while the Hannyas shake their serpentine tails in spasmodic anticipation. The unholy song corrupts the vectors, weakening the very fabric of existance, and suddenly pillars of pale green light spire from them and pierce the sky. The welkin becomes gretna and shafts of evil light illumine the Pretender of the demon nation. The mighty and cruel Deva, which the Onis have followed and worshiped up to the present, hoists her enormous Apotropaic weapons and sacrifices an unimposed Dai Oni. Bathing in his blood, she becomes one with the demonic powers and the energy of the vectors and ascends to the longly hankered godhood."


http://imgboot.com/images/Tifone/greensky.jpg

But everything works for me, really :)

[Lokean]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't cumulative VPs get awarded once a year in midsummer. I was thinking 'Mystical Juncture' sort of thing, where each summer rituals can be undertaken, but it takes a lot of rituallin' before the Pretender is strong enough to ascend.

[Tifone]

I think so it is in midsummer.

Which IMHO would be quite unthematic for Niefelheim i.e.... "Faster! We much rush to that particular little province in control of our mortal enemy instead of his capital, because we need to be there in 2 months so our god will receive the necessary blessing of the holy August holidays..." mmmh :rolleyes:

What I mean is, as KO as expert of religions knows better than me :), in almost every culture the periods around the solstices and equinoxes are somehow sacred and important; but Dom3's nations' cultures are too diversified to put the "important holy period of the year" (to gather VPs - the "summer rituals" you suggested ;) ) in the same season for everyone, seems hard to rationalize, as for Niefel or LA Ermor it would imho logically be winter and spring for Pangaea and so on, a thing that one wouldn't care in a normal game but might become weird in this one were we're expecting everybody to write the thoughts of maybe twenty different nations... :cool: And also I think it is impossible to make it diversified for nations so I would suggest something simpler like the necessity of the contemporaneous control of such and such an amount of "holy stones" or whatever.

(Stream of consciousness anyone? :D)

[Gandalf Parker]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't cumulative VPs get awarded once a year in midsummer. I was thinking 'Mystical Juncture' sort of thing, where each summer rituals can be undertaken, but it takes a lot of rituallin' before the Pretender is strong enough to ascend.

Its a game option...
--totalvp X Vic. points available in the world 0-25
--capitalvp One extra victory per capital
--requiredvp X Vic. points required for victory (default total/2)
--summervp Vic. points are accumulated each summer

[Lokean]

So that's a yes. The only sort of cumulative VP is once every summer, not monthly.

The point being, it doesn't actually matter what a religion thinks if there's 'real metaphysics' (mmm, oxymoronic!) involved. Nifelheim might consider winter months holy, but that's not going to change the fact that the nature of reality requires rituals on the summer solstice, at a place of metaphysical significance. It's not "Faster! We much rush to that particular little province so our god will receive the necessary blessing of the holy August holidays..."
It's "Faster! the conflux of ley lines is coming! Lay waste to the puny humans that would seek to control the power of the heavens!" If your god says 'go here, do this, or I shall be quite put out' you jolly well go and do it, even if summer does seem a funny time to do something for your god. The problem is, the religion's beliefs need not have any bearing on the matter of when and where junctures of mystical power occur.

[Tifone]

Well, the mystical power is supposed to be understood and somewhat controlled by religion. :smirk: That's why the power of the cold god of the Niefel should IMHO more consistently get the control of the ley lines in the cold season and not in the hot one... ;)

That's just semanthics anyway, really. I'm ok with everything you choose Lokean :)

[Shikome]

Well the point of capturing the ley lines (or whatever they represent) isn't just to gain their power; its to stop all the puny insects that dare challenge your divine majesty from gaining their power too, even if its a nasty summery power you don't want, you sure as hell don't want the pathetic little midgets to get it and heat up your nice cold tundra now do you?

[Zeldor]

What's wrong with normal VPs in capitals?

I played on cumulative VPs twice and they are really not a good idea in the way they work [adding that VP every summer]. If you could set that you get an VP after controling it for X months it could work. But with current mechanics I think standard VP victory would work best [we can discuss about adding additional VPs on the map and reequired % of VPs to win, probably smth between 40-60%].

[Tifone]

Sure Shikome, I was just saying why I was in favour of normal VPs instead of cumulative ones - you stop the enemy gaining power from them in both ways :D

Zeldor I think the point against VPs in capitals is to avoid a rush game where everybody tries to destroy other nations soon to get their victory point; it would just impoverish the number of players and thus the reports soon.
With dislocated ones, who gets them will probably fortify their position there in those remote places, and we will likely have nice battles around the spots, diplomacy and waves of armies back and forth to lose and conquer them. :) Or at least it's what I'm looking forward to. (But again I'll adapt to any choice ;) )

[calmon]

I'm for normal VPs.

A game like this is special enough, we really don't need a second special effect like cumulativ VPs.

[Wrana]

As for VPs, they seem fine either way for me. And Niefelheim can consider that summer solstice is important as it is the time of the greatest strength of sun's heat which should be combated so that it won't gain absolute domination (reverse of actual beliefs of many cultures)...
As for maps, I'm for continent exploration, though reverse World of Geometry could be fun, too - at least for novelty. (Another thing - please, no toroid maps!)
Also, I don't think it's possible to hide VP provinces from players. Gandalf can say with certainty, I think... ;)

[Tifone]

Yay for continent exploration.

Mmh this game really deserves a special map. :cool:

[Lokean]

Tifone basically has the point.

Considering this remains a first experiment, I think I'll be happy with us just using the standard Orania VP map with normal victory points (no capitals). I realise it's a toroidal map, and I've got to admit to thinking they're horrible to play on, but it'll certainly do for a first try. There's very little in the way of impassable terrain, so most nations will end up with long borders surrounded by enemies, with little strategic variety, but as I say, first experiment...

I'd suggest that the magical sites be set between 50 and 60, abundant, but not prolific. I prefer to allow score graphs, since I like to think that most nations would have *fairly* good intelligence on their major obstacles to ascension, and obviously I don't think people should treat diplomatic agreements as anything other than what they are; the mutually convenient illusion of security. If you want to be a trustworthy and honourable god, go ahead, but, well, don't expect Abysia or Pangaea to do the same...

Mod nations would be fine. I like the idea of allowing people their favourite nation where possible, so I'm happy to use the Single Age mod (though if people are strongly against allowing the 'broken nations' I'll consider banning those specifically). Variety is clearly a good thing for RP or interesting narratives, so CBM will be used. Anything else people would like to discuss? If not, I'll get things rolling.

For my convenience, could people list their top 3 favourite nations and I'll assign them as best I am able.

EDIT: Regardless, I like this idea and would rather see it evolving into something made of fascinating and win than just being a one-off. As such, I'll probably load up the GIMP after all and start working on a few maps with an eye to narratability (is that even approximately a word?!). Although, I refuse to paint all my lush grassland beige and yellow! We'll see how this one turns out and I can work through the feedback and make it better for next time! (in about six months, when this one is finished...)

[Tifone]

I'm totally in favour of this map :) - even if the lack of chokepoints sounds a bit of a pity :o

The setup is great but... are you reeeaally sure about the Single Age?... This seems VERY hard to rationalize eventually and a bit unbalancing... :smirk:

[quantum_mechani]

Settings sound good... I'm a bit skeptical of the all ages mod working well from an RP perspective though.

[Zeldor]

Lokean:

So what nations will be banned? And probably with single-age only 1 instance of a nation allowed? [so we don't get EA + MA Abysia]

[Lokean]

Look at it this way, the only reason you know that the various incarnations of a nation belong to each age is because they often talk about their past and various nation-altering events. There's nothing preventing these things being spatially distributed rather than chronologically.

Why should EA, MA and LA Pangaea, for example, not just be three splinter sects of a progenitor nation that have each pursued a different path? And that's only assuming that players pick versions of the same nation from different eras.

Rationalising aside, why unbalancing, Tifone?

[Zeldor]

Lokean:

I still think it would be better for that type of the game to allow just 1 instance of every multi-age nation. It should create more interesting game.

[Lokean]

Is it less interesting to have two factions of a splintered nation following different gods, probably even more concerned with the destruction of their heretical brethren than their own nation's rise?

I am, after all, still not used to MP gaming, so perhaps I'm missing something, but I don't see, from a narrative perspective, any problem with people adopting different eras of a nation and agreeing between them that [fluff!] is the reason for them both exisitng as separate nations. I mean, if the point is to have an RP/writeup kind of game the least players should be willing to do is work out how the two nations might relate to one another.

[quantum_mechani]

It's obviously a subjective subject, but personally I would find something like LA Ermor and EA Ermor in the same game extremely unthematic. Yes, it's pretty much only from the game text that you know what order things are supposed to happen in, but if you are throwing that out the window there is not a lot to RP from.

I think what Tifone may be getting it is EA nations tend to on average dominate a bit. Extra gems, and in general tougher units and higher levels of magic.

[Tifone]

Well IMHO the thing that "they often talk about their past and various nation-altering events" is very important in this game... we'll probably be heavy on thematicness so one which would i.e. write nostalgic the fall of the glorious Ermorian Legions into the undeads he is leading and then facing those in battle... well... :D

http://imgboot.com/images/Tifone/coliseumlg.jpg

Hey quantum, that's telepathy, I was preparing the image before you told that :shock:

PS: even the Agarthans are heavy on theme, and the water nations...

[Lokean]

Again, I question the problem with spatially distributing them. Say the glorious Ermorian legions, sent into the Utter West on a mission for the New Faith, seeking the means to bring about the immediate reawakening of the New God. There they open the tomb of an old god, thought by the Pontifices to be long reduced to a divine spark, devoid of will, and his malevolent spirit consumes them utterly, tearing the veil between Life and Death. Now, with the very land beneath their feet corrupting as they march, the vast and growing legions of undeath march on the tomb of the New God, far to the east.

Now, obviously, that could be done better, and would vary considerably based on how the players wish to approach it, but I don't see that it's *that* farfetched, Nor does it really change the theme for either nation. In fact, about the only change is the capital of Ashen Empire being some mouldering tomb complex rather than a mouldering shell of Eldregate.

EDIT: I don't have a problem restricting nations to only one incarnation each, since it's really just to increase the chance of somebody getting their favorite version of a nation, but I'm just trying to illustrate that I don't see a loss of thematic quality going hand-in-hand with multiple eras of the same nation being in the game.

Agartha, I'll admit, is a little harder, but if you multiply them into a once world-spanning civilization that has collapsed into a few pocket-cultures in deep cave complexes I think you can still make it work quite readily. One culture never encountered humans, one was slowly replaced by them and the last was worshipped and fell into decadence, eventually becoming a nation of hallowed mummies.

[Tifone]

Lol Lokean, you're now creating your own Dom3 mithology bro ;) Not that it's bad your creativity is nice and I understand where you want to get, I'm just fearing it will create some real confusion... and possibly reduce the RPs material, for eventually having to reduce thematic historical sequences not to clash with the presence of a later or previous incarnation of the same nation in game.

And about Agartha...

http://imgboot.com/images/Tifone/frasassi.jpg

[Lokean]

You say that almost like it's a bad thing...

I dunno, maybe I'm too used to doing this sort of thing, but I don't really understand where you're coming from. Clearly you're going to put your own spin on the nation as you write, since there's only a flavor to each nation, not an entire culture and history. I consider it just as likely that the human in your picture would be saying "Die, foul corruption!", after all, this *thing* can't be a real Agathan Oracle, it's just some disgusting degenerate, mocking the form of the glorious Oracles of the past.

[Vanslime]

Well, since I don't have many strong feelings on the whole "single age" debate, I'll just stake claims to MA Marignon,EA Atlantis and Gath before its too late.

[quantum_mechani]

It's certainly possible to RP rationalize almost anything... but what different people find plausible varies widely. Personally I would feel a bit adrift without the basic back stories of the nations to build on, and to be honest a little annoyed to see direct contradictions. As I said before this is of course a totally subjective opinion, but I guess I fail to see a really strong reason for not playing in one age.

[Lokean]

It boils down to maximising the chances of players getting their favouritest of favorite nations. I'm happy to restrict it to one era of each nation, then the backstory of each individual nation pretty much stays intact. Would that do you? If not, I'd have to straw-poll the preferred era.

EDIT: Go post preferences in the other thread, here (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=41425)

[quantum_mechani]

Only one era of a nation is better, though I would still vastly prefer just a single era.

I would submit that the current preferences thread is biased however. ;) No doubt in the current format there will be a large spread of first nation picks across the eras which is an argument for the one nation mod. But I doubt in actuality there are that many people so fixated on a particular nation they would mind choosing another (or the same one in a different era).

[Lokean]

Hence asking whether they favor the single age mod and which era they would prefer, were it not to be used.

[quantum_mechani]

Well, my only point was it might get different results if people voted on whether to use combined mod _before_ they started picking nations. It's no big deal though, just arguing for the sake of arguing really. ;) Sorry if I seem overly picky- I think it's great someone is finally getting an RP game started for dom3, and I'd surely play almost regardless of settings.

[Lokean]

Wait, WHAT?!

*goes and changes the signup thread to reflect the fact that everone else is going to be playing modded versions of the carebears and he's playing LA R'lyeh*

As I say, even if I don't get to play in them forever, I'd like to see this game being the first of a generation of RP/narrative games, so ironing things out early is a good thing. Once this one gets underway I'm hoping for plenty of feedback as well as prose. Custom maps with a setup premise in broad strokes (like the unexplored landmass, for example) are certainly within my capacity and would serve to improve the feasibility of the games considerably, I would say.

[solmyr]

Read the whole long thread. It's really an interesting game setting for me. In most MPs I played so far, players have little interaction with each other and I often get to know a distant nation when it is shown on the message board with "The God of XXX is banished" or something like that. What happens to these people also buries with them.

The RP style also adds to the flavor of the game. Though I'm not a native English speaker, I'll try my best if you guys allow me:)

I'll post my preference on sign up page.

[Lokean]

For those joining me from the signup thread, hello.

Clearly, there's been a fair amount of opposition to the use of the Single Age Mod, and for the life of me I don't understand why. If we assume that there's only one of an incarnation of a nation I simply don't see how somebody else playing a nation from a different Age affects your nation or how you choose to engage with it through the game or through RP and narration. I understand that it must do, or there wouldn't be any opposition, but I just don't know how.

[Lingchih]

I'm not opposed to the single age mod. In fact, I like it. I've played a few games with it, and it's cool.

That said, I am not an actual player in the game, I just offered to sub where needed.

[Soyweiser]

I'm kinda a newbie to MP. But I would like to try it. Is it possible for me to join?

And what does quickturn mean? What is the difference between a normal turn and a quickturn?

(And I'm not opposed to Single age mods).

[hunt11]

Welcome to the forum Soyweiser.

Quickturn means that that game will host as soon as all turns are in.

[Gandalf Parker]

Most games tend to set two hosting settings. One amounts to the soonest (such as quick turn) and one for the latest which is often something like 24 hours to give everyone anywhere in the world a chance to make a turn.

[Baalz]

Well, I don't suppose I can rightly turn down an honored reserved spot. :)

[Irenicus23]

This is my first post and want to say hi to the community. I have played the demo for a week and just opened my copy of the complete game today from amazon. The special requirement for writing is a neat idea. Can I join this game or should I get more experience first?

[Otherling]

Having considered it, I think using the all-ages mod is probably better for this type of game. The main argument against it, I think, is that nations from some eras are simply stronger than others, and that the middle era is where things are the most balanced. However, in this particular game, I would hope players are mostly choosing their nations based on having a narrative ready for that nation.

I admit also to some selfish reasons for wanting the SA mod, in that my planned storyline for LA Atlantis goes out the window if we're using the middle age. But I think there are others as well whose preferred nation is from EA or LA, and who will have to change things around if forced to settle for a MA nation.

[Gandalf Parker]

This is my first post and want to say hi to the community. I have played the demo for a week and just opened my copy of the complete game today from amazon. The special requirement for writing is a neat idea. Can I join this game or should I get more experience first?

Just my own opinion but hopefully this game will be less focused on who can beat the game and more focused on making a story of it. So it might be a great game for beginners to get into if you are a writer, poet, bard, or daydreamer type. :)

But if you want to try multiplayer games fast and small then you can always play some of the small games on my server.
http://game.dom3minions.com/bin/blitz_chk.cgi

[Lokean]

Yay! Baalz noticed my sycophantic homage! You can go and have a look at the signup thread here (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=41425) and pick a MA nation. In general you can ask for a Mod nation, if you prefer, but not if it's made of weirdness and godmodding.

[Wrana]

Main argument against the Single Age mod (at least mine and what I've seen here) is NOT a disbalance between different ages' nations. It's that there is a history of Dominions world which describes how various nations changed with time which mostly forbids their coexistance. Lokean offered that they can be something like "factions" or "sects" of the same nation, but this strongly disagrees with what is known for almost all nations (possible exceptions being MA/LA Marignon and MA/LA Pythium). At the same time, there ARE factions of the same nations in the game already. These are Lanka/Kailasa, Pythium/Ermor, Helheim/Vanaheim, plus to some degree MA Man/Eriu.
The only way I see to reconciling Single Age with existing history of Dominions nations is to use a "space-time warp" kind of backstory, where colonists from different times passing through some extradimensional gate(s), end up in the same continuum (by the way, this calls for some really exotic maps, too...)

[Irenicus23]

Thank you for the advice Gandalf and the link to your server.

[Soyweiser]

Thank you for the advice Gandalf and the link to your server.

Hi Irenicus23. Are you already playing on the blitz server? I'm also contemplating playing a blitz game. I made LA ermor pretender on bl_accost on port 8818.

[Gandalf Parker]

I just noticed that the initial post on the other Chronicals thread has been updated to game info.

Hmmm I must have missed some discussion, or wasnt watching the counts as well as I should have.

How did we get on PbEM, and CBM mod?
Thats going to take some getting used to. I will need to figure out how to do the PbEm thing with my setup.

[Gandalf Parker]

I think that the non creative writing posts to this game should maybe go here leaving the other thread cleaner for AAR

Well Ive installed the latest CBM on my desktop machine. Now I have to check out what that does to my nation. And generate my god over again which really sucks because it took my a long time to get the titles I liked.

Hmm how can nations be decided if era isnt? I need to know that before I can create my god.

Then I have to install some sort of mail program apparently.

[Gandalf Parker]

Hmmm we already have more playrs than the map recommends

[NKIcan]

Is there still spots available for this? I too am a MP 'newbie' but I think the idea of a narrative and story for the turns is interesting, and I'd like to join if you'd have me.

[Tifone]

You're in the wrong thread ;)

This one is for the actual game: http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=41425

Looks like all the spots are taken and the admin only takes eventual subs. Maybe if Lokean decides to go for a larger map there will be more spots opened. As it is, we're already at close quarters :o

[Gandalf Parker]

Yeah too tight for me. My role play will be a quick final destruction by the children of Adam

[Tifone]

I'll keep that in mind!!! :tough:


(... but who am I trying to fool?... :cry:)

[Gandalf Parker]

I hate having to remake my gods. I spent alot of time getting the titles right. Im going to make my god over and over until I get titles that work for an AAR.

Also keep in mind that you can choose one title. When you name your god you have alot of space and you can name it xxxxx, the xxxx xxxxxx. I plan on naming my Lord of the Wild as Primal, the Natural Disaster which would then be followed by all the titles that the game gives me.

The title trick is usually disclaimed as a worthless tactic but its perfect for this game. :)

[Baalz]

Good suggestion Gandalf, considering I already proclaimed my title and haven't made my pretender. ;)

[Lokean]

Gandalf, sorry to have sprung things on you. I'm sorry to say that the CBM probably has the most profound effect on Pangaea out of all the nations in the game. MA pangaea can build quite a solid strategy out of Carrion Woods, and the CBM makes the spell a level 0 Enchantment, so you can actually throw it up as soon as you have the gems.

I'll admit I'm starting to think the map may well be too small, but the next scale up lacks any good VP maps that I'm aware of. Any suggestions?

Speaking of titles, I reckon you could probably modify a pretender file and then rehash it if you wanted custom titles, but doing so would be a potential exploit, since it would let you remove the broad hints as to a pretender's magic and paths.


The game has gotten to the point now where there's a total of 29-31 interested parties, so, well... I could actually set two simultaneous games going, which might actually be better. It seems like this could actually get off the ground as an institution if it goes well.

[Gandalf Parker]

I always thought of CBM as an MP mod. Some of the changes definately affects my feel for the nation. You might want to add a link for CBM to the game description for new players in the game. Also we might want to mention that they should keep an eye on the first post of that other thread since new players might not be aware that it updates important info.

As to map, Id be fine with a randomly generated one. Like one of these.
http://www.dom3minions.com/RandomMaps/maxs/keepers/keepers.htm

Are we going to be MA? That other thread still says TBD. I cant get started on a god until I know.

I guess I can work on the email thing today. I do all my email stuff on the linux server where I have more control and less security worries. My Windows desktop machine that I use to play dominions doesnt even have an email program if I remember right. Hopefully I can find something with command-line options so I can just automate turn uploads to single click.

Hmmm but the return turns will still end up coming to the linx. Heck I might just automate an ftp transfer between desktop and server so I can automate both. Its more involved but the whole how-to builds easily in my mind already.

[quantum_mechani]

I'd just like to say I think having two games is an excellent idea. Over bloated games are just no good, and it also allows those in the minority about setting choices to get their way.

[Incabulos]

I would love to join in this, as a story teller and roleplayer at heart.
I am very rusty on Dominions though. Started reading the manual again as a refresher, although I am not sure how deeply the various mods impact the information in the manual.

[Gandalf Parker]

Since the object is role-play and creative writing over pkill I would rather not see even a weak player taken out too quickly (yeah ok, I might have biased reasons for saying that :) ). They might be our best writers. I think that would affect map choice. Im sure the over-bloated upper cap would be raised for this.

[Tifone]

Lol, Lokean has probably made one of the most overpartecipated games of the last years :D I take the little freedom to kindly suggest him again to rethink the map choice...

[quantum_mechani]

Since there does seem to be such a huge well of players, my humble suggestion is suggestion is to peel off 12-15 players interested in a closer packed game and play Desert Eye (or Dawn of Dominions if people would not mind taking EA). Then the remaining players could then comfortably fit in Orania.

[Zeldor]

Huh, what? I am pretty sure we have already agreed that we are playing it on llamaserver. Age is set too and same thing about provinces per player for choosing map, so why all that mess, Gandalf?

[Gandalf Parker]

I saw the Llamaserver thing. Thats why I said I would need to install a mail program.

As far as age, the thread still says its TBD

Hasnt the provinces per player blown off all of the premade maps that have been suggested?

[Lokean]

*swears*

I edited the first post of the other thread to reflect decisions and it seems to have simply failed to stick. Yes, Gandalf, it was going to be MA.

However, I'm going to piss everybody off at this point and start trying to reorganise things a little. The interested parties and the signed up players sort of ran away with the idea, meaning I failed to keep on top of organising it.

There are enough interested parties to split the game off into two running in parallel, which will be an Early Age and Middle Age game, both on Orania with identical settings.

So, now, I'm going to go back to the list of preferences and split the current set of players up into MA and EA groups (based on preferred nations). Gandalf, you're a mod, I believe, so could you please lock the other thread for the moment while I go and sort everything out?

[calmon]

Hmm, why do you split? It seems we are not enough to fill this game.

And as the host at the end you decide what we play. Don't make it too complicate by listening each single voice. Otherwise we end in a neverending story starting with splitting, followed with first drops because it takes too long to start the game, etc.

[Hadrian_II]

I would not split, just start the MA game with everyone who has signed on.

[Lokean]

Calmon, what could you possibly be seeing that suggests there's not enough people to fill the game? There are around thirty people that have expressed an interest.

If people would drop out because it takes too long to set up I strongly doubt they'd be happy playing this game, since it will likely take upwards of eight months to get even close to a conclusion and they would have contributed over twenty tales by that point.

[Ylvali]

I think you are right about splitting it Lokean. First: It would be overwhelming to read all the texts with too many players. Second: these games will be slow by nature, having too many player would slow them down even more to a degree where it would create frustration. Around 12-15 players per game would be alright IMO, and that seems to be where it´ll land with the current interest.

I wouldn´t worry about a little extra setup time. Joining a roleplaying game such as this requires a lot of dedication anyhow, so if you can´t wait a week or two (or three) for it than maybe it´s not your kind of game.

[Gandalf Parker]

If Orania is going to be the map then yes, please split it.
When you start a game with the Orania map it says right there "suitable for 14-17 players" and "279 provinces. By Dom3 standards that amounts to a medium sized map with that many players. To play with twice that many would be less than even a small-map game (if its even possible with how many starting positions the map has)

[Tifone]

I'm gonna read all the flavoured texts anyway. *Frak* the exam!! :D

[Ruminant]

Indubitably, I totally support ya choosing to run two seperate games. It's a massive help for those who have invested creepy amounts of thought in individual nations (*prays he is le person to take EA Agartha*). Plus it could be kinda interesting to look at two roleplaying games at once and see how they turn out.

[Lokean]

(*prays he is le person to take EA Agartha*)

He is...

I've still got a few people to hear back from, and I might stick it back up as looking for players, since the odds are usually good that if somebody doesn't get back to you they've forgotten or changed their mind, but this is the breakdown so far:


EA: 11 players

Arco quantum_mechani
Mictlan Qio
Abysia tifone
Caelum solmyr
C'tis NKIan
Pangaea GP
Agartha Ruminant
Fomoria Calmon
Hinnom zeldor
R'lyeh Incabulos
Lanka Wrana

MA: 12 players

Arco irenicus23
Ulm Baalz
Marignon vanslime
T'ien Ch'i KO
Machaka otherling
Caelum Sansanjuan
Vanaheim evilhomer
Atlantis hunt11
R'lyeh DonCorazon

Skaven Hadrian
Hoburg alliance Ylavli
Tomb Kings Executor

There's a few I've not heard back from, plus me, so we should be looking at a minimum of 14 players an era, hopefully.

[solmyr]

(*prays he is le person to take EA Agartha*)

He is...

I've still got a few people to hear back from, and I might stick it back up as looking for players, since the odds are usually good that if somebody doesn't get back to you they've forgotten or changed their mind, but this is the breakdown so far:


EA: 11 players

Arco quantum_mechani
Mictlan Qio
Abysia tifone
Caelum solmyr
C'tis NKIan
Pangaea GP
Agartha Ruminant
Fomoria Calmon
Hinnom zeldor
R'lyeh Incabulos
Lanka Wrana

MA: 12 players

Arco irenicus23
Ulm Baalz
Marignon vanslime
T'ien Ch'i KO
Machaka otherling
Caelum Sansanjuan
Vanaheim evilhomer
Atlantis hunt11
R'lyeh DonCorazon

Skaven Hadrian
Hoburg alliance Ylavli
Tomb Kings Executor

There's a few I've not heard back from, plus me, so we should be looking at a minimum of 14 players an era, hopefully.

Well, as I've already prepared my story for MA jotun (see the prologue in another post). I may not wish to participate the EA game anymore.

[Lokean]

Oh, I thought that was your preference. No problem, I'll switch you over.

[calmon]

Hi Lokean,

please move me to MA ermor like in the Chronicles MP Thread.

Thanks.

[Tifone]

Aaaah! Aaah! Wait! Didn't you see the other thread?? :D I've already written a one-page-long introduction to MA Abysia :cry:

[Wrana]

And I have already posted as MA Shinuyama... Or may I participate in both? ;)

[Lokean]

I've moved the people that asked to be moved. Wrana, if you think you can commit to both games then I'm fine with you playing in both, if you think you can commit...

QM may be dropping out, which would drop the EA down to 8. There's appropriate maps out there for that sort of number, and it will be interesting to see which scale seems to work better, so failing any last minute changes I'm going to set the MA game in motion.

[Soyweiser]

I thought that the game was already started as a ME game, as it was already rather full. So I wasn't really following this thread any more. So if there is an opening in the EA game, I would like to join. I'm still a total newbie at dominion MP games. But this sounds very interesting.

I don't know if tifone still wants to play EA Abysia. But if he doesn't want to play EA Abysia I would like to have a got at it. Or else I would like to try EA Ermor.

[Tifone]

No mr Soy, I'd like to be MA Abysia, having already posted a long first chapter of the MA game story. :)

If Lokean needs some players to the EA I can apply to that too but not with Abysia, too much fire burns :mean:

[Gandalf Parker]

Bahhh! Everyone would just rather play with KO than against QM :smirk:

[Soyweiser]

No mr Soy, I'd like to be MA Abysia, having already posted a long first chapter of the MA game story. :)

If Lokean needs some players to the EA I can apply to that too but not with Abysia, too much fire burns :mean:

I meant that I would like to play abysia in EA. I didn't want to take your place in the MA game. I based my information on the list of nations and ages on the previous page.

[Tifone]

Yay, I got it! ;) That's why I said EA Abysia is free, I didn't apply to that

[Soyweiser]

You didn't? Ow, my bad then. I get it to! So we can both play Abysia.

I'll start to read your chapter.

[Executor]

Quote>
There's a few I've not heard back from, plus me, so we should be looking at a minimum of 14 players an era, hopefully.

LOKEAN>
Just to let you know I'm still in the game. Still MA, as posted.

[Zeldor]

I think I will step out of that game. I expected it to be normal game with added roleplaying, not the other way around. I won't be able to read and write enough to make it sense. And my serious approach could mess the game up.

[Lokean]

Zeldor, I'm sort of hoping for a serious approach from all the players. There's nothing wrong with a funny writeup, but it should still be approached seriously... However, my intent was, indeed, for it to be a 'roleplaying' scenario, where players are presumed to be reacting as their nation would. If that's not what you were looking for then it's better to pull out now than be disappointed later.

Llamabeast is fixing a bug with user-uploaded nations. Until then, he's had to kludge the Hoburg Alliance onto the server. Hopefully it will work as intended, which means I should be able to get the MA game moving. Sadly, I'm not in the MA game, which means I'm missing out playing with some of the 'famous faces', but everybody gets to read their output, so that's a win in my book.

You will need the following mods:
The Hoburg Alliance (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showpost.php?p=473354&postcount=1)
The Skavenblight (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showpost.php?p=523975&postcount=1)
The Tomb Kings (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showpost.php?p=523975&postcount=1)
The Conceptual Balance Mod, 1.3 Complete (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showpost.php?p=621998&postcount=1)

If there's anything wrong with the roster below, please let me know.
MA nation roster:

Arco irenicus23
Ermor Calmon
Man quantum_mechani
Ulm Baalz
Marignon vanslime
T'ien Ch'i KO
Machaka otherling
Abysia tifone
Caelum Sansanjuan
Vanaheim evilhomer
Jotumheim solmyr
Shinuyama Wrana
Atlantis hunt11
R'lyeh DonCorazon

Skaven Hadrian
Hoburg alliance Ylavli
Tomb Kings Executor

I would suggest a simple majority of Victory Points be required to win, which would be 8 out of 15 total. Do the players agree to that, or do they feel that will make it too easy?

The settings are:
Independants: 5
Supplies, Resources, Gold, Research: Standard
Magic Sites: 55
Random Events: Common
Hall of Fame: 15
Renaming: On

[Zeldor]

Lokean:

Serious playing [== powerplaying to win] is what I meant, not serious writing [which is obvious]. I rather expected just different approach to diplomacy and adding few lines of text every turn, not whole pages :) I'm not saying it's bad, but I surely won't have enough time for that.

[Gandalf Parker]

Truthfully I was beginning to worry about the same thing.

[Ylvali]

I think the setup looks good Lokean.

I am confident most players will try to stay in character, make serious writeups AND try their best to win all at the same time.

I beleive that taking a serious part in the roleplaying will be a necessity to win this kind of game anyway, simply because your diplomatical position and respect will depend on it.

[Tifone]

Sorry, but I think you guys are worrying for nothing, really :)

@Lokean: Maybe 10 VPs in 15? 8 seems a little low (but it's just my opinion). Everything else is ok I think.
When do we start? ;)

[calmon]

I vote capital VPs only and half of them needed to win, thats more or less standard.

Non capital VPs can end the game in a very fast and -for a rpg- quite unlovely way...

[Lokean]

I believe the concern is that people will simply 'air drop' troops into VP provinces, yes? I would presume that, at 17 players, most VP provinces will be well and truly claimed before anybody has the capacity to prepare a simultaneous assault across enough to claim victory.

[Zeldor]

VPs = capitals. So they are forted and well defended. So teleporting and grabbing them is not an option really. That problem occurs only with non-cap VPs on the map and favours some nations, that can teleport easily.

[calmon]

I believe the concern is that people will simply 'air drop' troops into VP provinces, yes? I would presume that, at 17 players, most VP provinces will be well and truly claimed before anybody has the capacity to prepare a simultaneous assault across enough to claim victory.

Well from my mp experience:

- Much people don't build even a fortress in the VP province (especially in a round we have here, with much roleplaying)
- Most of us don't use expensive armies to protect a single province, its easier just to go for the other VPs
- Forget PD, it can never be strong enough to defend against a good suited SC

I don't say that i would use such a sudden death tactic but the question is, why should we risk it someone does?

[Gandalf Parker]

You could keep the VPs secret?
Give them terrain bits of
"nostart" 512
"manysites" 1024
and then set a program to grab battle actions from the game log so you can keep score.
Maybe use special unused magic site to mark it so the person taking it knows they have one.

rushes off to add that to my game ideas list

[Tifone]

I thought it had been discussed already, nah? :)

I'm for non-capitol VPs, I thought we were going for the "junctions of energy scattered around the world", possibly (if mr Gandalf helps us it could be great ;) ) with the "many sites" tag in them. Secret ones seems overly-difficult to manage :(

[Wrana]

Yes, it was discussed. And a question was whether actual VPs with secret location was possible, with no answer. Some kind of new magic site modded in to represent VPs isn't an option, in my book, as it would be impossible to know even if you have already won! Also, placing them in the map would require an author of the map to know their location, with an added difficulty of their additioanl random appearance.
And, by the way, I'm for non-capital VPs (and 8 of 15 to win), though capital-based ones would be fine, too.

[Gandalf Parker]

a site can be placed as "found" so it appears as soon as you capture the province. And they could be placed randomly so that even the author doesnt know it (only the host would know)

[calmon]

8 out of 15 non-capital VP?

I thought we want a somehow lengthy game with a lot of roleplaying. This victory condition means just a quite short game -at least there is a big chance of it.

Whats the sence of secret VPs? This means the game can end in turn 10 by luck or runs untill the remaining players decided to stop it which we can already have by just using the standard winning condition.

[quantum_mechani]

I agree with Calmon, non cap vps is just asking for sudden death. Secret vps (if they are even possible?) seem even more bizarre, just like number of prov victory except it might fire way too soon or almost never.

[Ylvali]

I vote for capital VPs. War and vendettas are good to roleplay, and when you finally bested your hated enemy you know you are one step closer to victory.

I also think it would be good to delay the endgame with hard or very hard research from a roleplaying perspective. So your mundane troops and heroes can take a big part of the story and glory.

[Tifone]

Magic makes for better roleplay and funnier battles IMHO. I'd go on standard :)

capitol VPs would enhance fast killing of nations, loss of writers, and a captured capitol is usually hard to retake from the nation itself when it can't recruit capitol-only troops and commanders no more. so if you want long wars and vendettas imho better to fight for that distant province your troops had to travel for long in the desert to reach...

[quantum_mechani]

No vps is fine with me too, it's just the leaving non-cap ones scattered around that seems dangerous. For one thing some nations are _far_ better at quick grab tactic than others. I would not underestimate how quickly, say, Ry'leh could make a grab for the winning number.

[Baalz]

/me shrugs. If somebody is obviously the winner its usually not hard to get universal concession without having to play down to the bitter end (particularly in a RP game where "surrender" is potentially the way to go). If somebody is not the obvious winner a VP snatch just feels like a trick to sudden death a game which was still up in the air.

[solmyr]

First of all, though it's a roleplaying centric game, I still wish everyone play for win. (though it's not powergaming for win, just win according to the selected nation's ideal)

I don't care too much about VPs. If you guys have played Civilization series, victory can be achieve in various ways and I believe it fits well in our scenario, too. Consider these:
1. Conquest victory: a player took a certain percentage of total provinces wins, war monger's choice.
2. Magic dominance: a player took all five global enchantment slots with GEs from five different research paths wins, researcher's choice.
3. Diplomacy victory: An assembly is held every, say 10 turns. Everyone vote for a nation that is, according to their ideology, the last nation they want to destroy. They cannot vote for themselves and must vote one. A player turns out to have a dominate popularity wins.

[lch]

"See MoM or SMAC"

[Lokean]

What about using both the capital and map VPs, requiring 16 of 22 to win? That would mean having your capital and all the map VPs, for example.

Regardless, Llamabeast has fixed his bug, so I'll upload the game to the Llamaserver in approximately 12 hours. If there's no general consensus I'll go with either a vanilla victory or the suggestion above, depending on if it seems VPs are favoured overall.

[Ylvali]

That sounds like a good suggestion Lokean.

[calmon]

I would vote for 'graphs off' in this game.

This is a RPG game with hopefully a lot of exciting tales, intrigues and great wars.

The graphs just take some of the fun, everyone sees the truth instantly.

[Tifone]

Yay, that's a nice idea. Expecially as in MA there are many recruitable scouts so it shouldn't be a problem to use spionage and intelligente, far more interesting and in-character :cool:

[Wrana]

The variant with both kinds of VPs seems about right.
I would generally prefer to have graphs on - it seems silly, after all, that there no merchants or other rumormongers in the world from whom you can find out about general situation. However, in this particular case it's probably possible that we can generate such content ourselves, thus eliminating necessity of graphs. Still, I'm not sure...
Also, diplomacy victory is a sound idea. In PR-heavy game it's even possible for player to declare a vassality to other one if he is close to defeat. This allows weaker player to remain in game continuing to write stories, while his liege gets closer to overall victory (e.g., vassal votes as his liege wishes, possibly even contributing his VPs to lieges' total number). Of course, it's just an outline - agreements may differ from case to case, etc. If somebody's interested, please continue from this... ;)

[solmyr]

I vote for close graph, too. That's how intrigue can stands out.

[Baalz]

Yeah, graphs off is my vote.

[Gandalf Parker]

The switch of:
--nonationinfo .....No info at all on other nations
would be good also but so far I cant seem to get it to work the way Im thinking its supposed to. Maybe Johan will fix it before we start.

[Baalz]

Oh, also make sure renaming is on.

[quantum_mechani]

I'm normally very against graphs off, but I guess I can see the RP argument. It does leave a lot more potential for someone to run away with the game though, especially with VPs.

[Tifone]

Well, yeah, I don't see anything bad in this, if the other nations weren't able to share informations about potential common threats both through diplomacy nor reports, seems just right the strong one will win :)

(I'm so gonna regret having said this... :D)

[Ylvali]

I agree with graphs off

[Lokean]

Right, the MA game is up, please begin mailing pretenders.

[Lingchih]

I'm normally very against graphs off, but I guess I can see the RP argument. It does leave a lot more potential for someone to run away with the game though, especially with VPs.

Indeed. Graphs off in a VP game is a sure means to disaster. Just chiming in, having been is a similar game recently.

[Lokean]

Well, in the interests of random dangerous experimentation, graphs are off. We'll have to see how it works overall and adjust the format as time goes on.

[Tifone]

Pretender in! Can we open the old thread again now? We have all the introductions and first chapters there :o

[Lokean]

Not yet, no. I'm trying to get a wiki set up next to the old Yarnspinners one. Hopefully I'll have it sorted and ready for players to post to by the time all the pretenders are in.

[solmyr]

Sent.

Meanwhile I'll keep my pretender type hidden. But you will find clues in my story :L

[sansanjuan]

Zeldor, I'm sort of hoping for a serious approach from all the players. There's nothing wrong with a funny writeup, but it should still be approached seriously... However, my intent was, indeed, for it to be a 'roleplaying' scenario, where players are presumed to be reacting as their nation would. If that's not what you were looking for then it's better to pull out now than be disappointed later.

Llamabeast is fixing a bug with user-uploaded nations. Until then, he's had to kludge the Hoburg Alliance onto the server. Hopefully it will work as intended, which means I should be able to get the MA game moving. Sadly, I'm not in the MA game, which means I'm missing out playing with some of the 'famous faces', but everybody gets to read their output, so that's a win in my book.

You will need the following mods:
The Hoburg Alliance (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showpost.php?p=473354&postcount=1)
The Skavenblight (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showpost.php?p=523975&postcount=1)
The Tomb Kings (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showpost.php?p=523975&postcount=1)
The Conceptual Balance Mod, 1.3 Complete (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showpost.php?p=621998&postcount=1)

If there's anything wrong with the roster below, please let me know.
MA nation roster:

Arco irenicus23
Ermor Calmon
Man quantum_mechani
Ulm Baalz
Marignon vanslime
T'ien Ch'i KO
Machaka otherling
Abysia tifone
Caelum Sansanjuan
Vanaheim evilhomer
Jotumheim solmyr
Shinuyama Wrana
Atlantis hunt11
R'lyeh DonCorazon

Skaven Hadrian
Hoburg alliance Ylavli
Tomb Kings Executor

I would suggest a simple majority of Victory Points be required to win, which would be 8 out of 15 total. Do the players agree to that, or do they feel that will make it too easy?

The settings are:
Independants: 5
Supplies, Resources, Gold, Research: Standard
Magic Sites: 55
Random Events: Common
Hall of Fame: 15
Renaming: On

The Tombkings link seems to point to Skraven also... Want to make sure I get the right one.

Looking forward to the stories (or is it one big story?)....
-SSJ

[Gandalf Parker]

If you go to the Chronicles game on Llamas server then he has links for the mods.
Maybe he links to his kludged version.
http://www.llamaserver.net/gameinfo.cgi?game=Chronicles_MA

Ooh, and Lokean, I would highly recommend setting a master password.

[DonCorazon]

R'lyeh

Typhalia, coastal town, human settlement
2029 Year of the Griffon

When we found Haldor, he was drenched in so much blood we thought him dead until the whites of his eyes blinked open, causing Erman to cut himself. Haldor cackled and ripped off pieces of his flesh until finally we bound the stocky fisherman in manacles.

Just that morning the burly lad had set out on his scully, blowing a kiss to Esmeralda with his gentle grin. Now she lay torn to pieces and Haldor a gibbering lunatic. No one in Typhalia had ever seen such evil in those days.

Something must have happened to him out in the water, the smallfolk said, something that twisted his mind inside out. Would that he had but drowned and thus saved his family and spared us all the horror that was to come.

In the end though, we came to understand:

Beyond the sheltering blue sky is a horrible infinite darkness, waiting to spill forth. Beneath the gentle green waves is an endless hungering void, waiting to devour. Behind a fisherman’s smiling eyes is a fragile coil of sanity, waiting to be snapped. Beyond the gates of the Dark Citadel, is an unwitting world waiting to be broken.

[Tifone]

I'm not understanding no more :o

We open the old MP thread for the new chapters? We continue writing here (would seem pointless to me as the first chapters are in the other one)? We write on this wiki?

[Wrana]

By the way, llamaserver got misunderstanding with my mail server... :( I'm currently waiting for reply from Llamabeast, so some time may pass before my Pretender is seen by it (& I didn't mean him to be quite THIS stealthy! %) )

[DonCorazon]

Tifone, My understanding was Lokean would move chapters over to the wiki soon. The old forum thread with some writings is locked but I don't see why people who want to write something shouldn't just post it here for now.

[Gandalf Parker]

Im sorry. Ive tried but I cant get into role playing the CBM version of Pangaea. Its abit confining. As much as I like the idea of the game Im afraid Im going to pull out of it.

[Tifone]

Another nation nay, mr Gandalf? :(

@ DonCorazon

Yay, but we will need to write them somewhere before Lokean can move them to the wiki, so I was just thinking the old thread was more appropriate... Anyway, I'm not gonna post new ones until the game starts :)

Btw... I was wondering what does your avatar represent... ;)

[quantum_mechani]

Im sorry. Ive tried but I cant get into role playing the CBM version of Pangaea. Its abit confining. As much as I like the idea of the game Im afraid Im going to pull out of it.I may regret asking this, but what is possibly so drastically different about CB from an RP perspective? If there is one thing I've tried to maintain in CB it's the same IW theme (despite many suggestions to add units or other drastic measures). I just wonder how some units being a cheaper, and some spells and items being cheaper/easier to cast/forge could be such a factor, unless satyrs costing 10 gold is a critical part of the story...

[Gandalf Parker]

I didnt mean to disparage the mod. I can see where the changes definetly boost the MP gaming. Making Carrion Woods 0 level and Vinemen 3 per cast is a great boost along with the other changes. In fact, they are so good that its part of the problem. I suppose I could ignore them and play my usual style but it feels so wrong.

An obvious choice would be to take a pretender with at least 5d6n and a ton of dominion strength and growth scales. Then choose your spell research to move quickly toward the unholy priest spells insupport of plant armies. Probably take Carrion Dragon or Mother of Monsters instead of Lord of the Wild. Being able to cast Carrion Woods on turn 8? even sooner if you search while you expand. Thats a powerful temptation. And you would want to expand connectedly in an amoeba style building lots of temples as you go. The result would definetly be competitive. And Lord of the Wild has become a worthwhile SuperCombatant which I am sure some people loved. The changes just were not in the direction I play Pangaea altho they probably are in the direction that most people try to play it. Its a much more Ulmish format now.

But I was going for Lord of the Wild. Maenads to do the local expansion while I built and scattered stealth armies. Probably 4d,4n,4b and dom5, turmoil 3, sloth 2, heat 1, growth 2, luck 3, magic 3.

"I have taken the mantle to lead my people thru these troubling times. I have had them drop the titles of Lord of Revelry and Lord of the Hunt. I am now Primal, the Natural Disaster, the Shadow, the King of the Crossroads.

Other non-humans have created nations. That is not a problem. We have a nation. But this newcomer MAN creates a nation, then another nation, then another nation, until there are as many man nations as there are non-human nations. The future paints a picture I do not like. It seems apparent that the non-humans must band together to battle this threat. After Man is gone in his many forms THEN we can fight out the rest amoungst us.

I do not wish to change my people into that which I wish to fight. Our strength has never been in armored armies matching across the land. We shall send out scouts and hopefully find neighbors who are non-human to ally with. We shall send out quiet armies in support of those allies while keeping our own nation small and low profile. We shall watch the battles of others as they weaken each other. When the time is right, we shall strike from the shadows. "

Anyway I had in mind something like that. Like I said, there is nothing in cbm to keep me from doing it anyway. Maybe later I will change my mind but for now it seems really wrong to ignore the obvious advantages that cbm grants. And Ive tried RPing that format but it just doesnt feel like my Pangaea. Id rather pull out than do it injustice.

[DonCorazon]

I always think of CB as increasing choices, not pointing to a particular path. i don't think the carrion / undead route is a no-brainer in CB, since once people get some anti-undead capabilities, it can be a dead end strategy. Its just more viable but undead mastery pretty much eliminates the main threat of undead Pangea. Anyway, I think it would be sad to drop out just because you felt a mod compelled a certain direction. IMHO that's not the case at all,

[DonCorazon]

Yay, but we will need to write them somewhere before Lokean can move them to the wiki, so I was just thinking the old thread was more appropriate.

The old one is locked though, i think.


Btw... I was wondering what does your avatar represent...

Nothing really - it's an old pic from the AD&D player's handbook of some old guy smoking a pipe on a dice. Just showing my props to the grandfather of fantasy gaming, gary gygax, rip :)

[quantum_mechani]

I didnt mean to disparage the mod. I can see where the changes definetly boost the MP gaming. Making Carrion Woods 0 level and Vinemen 3 per cast is a great boost along with the other changes. In fact, they are so good that its part of the problem. I suppose I could ignore them and play my usual style but it feels so wrong.

An obvious choice would be to take a pretender with at least 5d6n and a ton of dominion strength and growth scales. Then choose your spell research to move quickly toward the unholy priest spells insupport of plant armies. Probably take Carrion Dragon or Mother of Monsters instead of Lord of the Wild. Being able to cast Carrion Woods on turn 8? even sooner if you search while you expand. Thats a powerful temptation. And you would want to expand connectedly in an amoeba style building lots of temples as you go. The result would definetly be competitive. And Lord of the Wild has become a worthwhile SuperCombatant which I am sure some people loved. The changes just were not in the direction I play Pangaea altho they probably are in the direction that most people try to play it. Its a much more Ulmish format now.

But I was going for Lord of the Wild. Maenads to do the local expansion while I built and scattered stealth armies. Probably 4d,4n,4b and dom5, turmoil 3, sloth 2, heat 1, growth 2, luck 3, magic 3.

"I have taken the mantle to lead my people thru these troubling times. I have had them drop the titles of Lord of Revelry and Lord of the Hunt. I am now Primal, the Natural Disaster, the Shadow, the King of the Crossroads.

Other non-humans have created nations. That is not a problem. We have a nation. But this newcomer MAN creates a nation, then another nation, then another nation, until there are as many man nations as there are non-human nations. The future paints a picture I do not like. It seems apparent that the non-humans must band together to battle this threat. After Man is gone in his many forms THEN we can fight out the rest amoungst us.

I do not wish to change my people into that which I wish to fight. Our strength has never been in armored armies matching across the land. We shall send out scouts and hopefully find neighbors who are non-human to ally with. We shall send out quiet armies in support of those allies while keeping our own nation small and low profile. We shall watch the battles of others as they weaken each other. When the time is right, we shall strike from the shadows. "

Anyway I had in mind something like that. Like I said, there is nothing in cbm to keep me from doing it anyway. Maybe later I will change my mind but for now it seems really wrong to ignore the obvious advantages that cbm grants. And Ive tried RPing that format but it just doesnt feel like my Pangaea. Id rather pull out than do it injustice.Personally I would be very wary of using carrion woods even in CB, pop death can be significant and you have no guarantee it wouldn't be dispelled. If it truly is a no brainer though, that would definitely mean something that needs to be changed.

Even assuming for a moment it's by far the best choice though, it kind of pales compared to the unthematic options encouraged by the base game.

[Tifone]

I've tried the early Carrion Woods Pangaea several times in SP and it definitively doesn't seem to me as easy to me as it looked at first glance (consider managing all that freespawn with limited undead leadership!). Funny and challenging, I'd say :) Still it's not the only way to play CBM Pangaea at all!

I humbly hope mr Gandalf will rethink his decision... If you do, remember that CBM makes Touch of Madness cost 1N gem! (important if you were planning a maenad factory IMHO) Probably quantum_mechani was finding all those inadvertently berserkr Pans annoying :D (still I'd prefer ToM made an higher range instead, imho Pangea needs the spell badly ;) )

[Gandalf Parker]

@Tifone, thats nice but I dont tend to use the Maenads much. That is still marching-army. I see also some cost changes to "appropriate" units.

I like to play nations like Pangaea and Caelum and Arcos because they support play other than Ulmish armies just using another nations units.

Now if he made Maenads stealth, or made the plants steath (which would probably be more thematic) then Id be thrilled. Or made the Pans or Pandemoniacs assassins. The Dryads seducers.

He gave Lord of the Forest 4 dominion-based animal summons, and 2 menu'd animal summons. But unfortunately thats not one of Pangaeas gods.

Im not saying these are suggestions. Just that they would tend to impact the Pangaea that I play.

[Tifone]

AFAIK so deep changes would have been out of quantum_mechanic's purpose for the mod. :) But I'm sure he can answer better :D

[quantum_mechani]

@Tifone, thats nice but I dont tend to use the Maenads much. That is still marching-army. I see also some cost changes to "appropriate" units.

I like to play nations like Pangaea and Caelum and Arcos because they support play other than Ulmish armies just using another nations units.

Now if he made Maenads stealth, or made the plants steath (which would probably be more thematic) then Id be thrilled. Or made the Pans or Pandemoniacs assassins. The Dryads seducers.

He gave Lord of the Forest 4 dominion-based animal summons, and 2 menu'd animal summons. But unfortunately thats not one of Pangaeas gods.

Im not saying these are suggestions. Just that they would tend to impact the Pangaea that I play.I think I've lost the train of this discussion, I thought the problem was you thought CB already changed the theme too much? Surely stuff like adding abilities to units would be much more intrusive than changing costs.

[Gandalf Parker]

Yes it would. Thats why those are non-suggestions.
Im just trying to point out the Pangaea I play vs one that others like.

I didnt say that CB changed the theme too much. It just seemed to go down one line. If I tended to play Carrion Dragon and Carrion Woods then I would be totally in love with CB all the time. Im just not the kindof person to role play Carrion Dragon or Mother of Monsters. In real life I have had jobs involving animals but I do not have anything close to a green thumb. My preferred view of Pangaea isnt much plant-based.
In an MP game I could get into it but not an RP or Solo one.
If someone wants to take my spot then feel free to do so.

[llamabeast]

But, everyone seems to think that the carrion route is still a risky and probably unwise one - just not as completely unfeasible as in basegame. Your way of playing the nation would certainly still work just as well as in vanilla Gandalf, wouldn't it?

[Tifone]

But, everyone seems to think that the carrion route is still a risky and probably unwise one - just not as completely unfeasible as in basegame. Your way of playing the nation would certainly still work just as well as in vanilla Gandalf, wouldn't it?

Yay, that's what I humbly think too. Now of course, don't want to make mr Gandalf feel forced to play a game he maybe decided for other reasons he doesn't want :)
I think CBM just makes another way of playing pangaea viable, along with "stealthy Pangaea" and "blessed white centaurs pangaea" and who knows how many others :cool: I humbly suggest to give your old pangaea a try ;) we would miss ya in the game I think mr Gandalf :(

(anyway, carrions are fun imho :D )

[Gandalf Parker]

In truth I havent played CB other than some short test runs since finding out that its part of this game. I felt the changes to Pangaea were awfully tempting but I can accept the expert opinions of others who have played with CB that its not as automatic as it seems.

I will return to the game for as long as I can hold out against the CB nations

[Baalz]

Ulm bashing from the perverted half men?!? The hedonistic goat rapists have the audacity to disparage the way pure men go about things? Steel is not rigid as iron, you will find the Ulmish armies both flexible and swift. Bring your preconceptions to the battlefield at your peril twisted thing. Before my hair grows gray you will take your place pulling a plow and give up your pretentions of being more than a beast, then you will know of the Ulmish way things are done.

[Lokean]

We appear to still be waiting on the following players:

irenicus23
quantum_mechani
KO
evilhomer
Ylavli


And can I just check who's playing Pythium?

[calmon]

My ermor pretender was also missed but uploaded just now.

[Kristoffer O]

Hmm, it's been a while. How do I send my pretender to the llamaserver?

[Kristoffer O]

Hmm, think I found an old one. pretenders(at)llama...

Game is Chronicles right?

Wu, Emperor of Untimely Death, awaits his destiny.

[Executor]

Chronicles_MA

[Kristoffer O]

Found out the hard way :) . The server informed me there was no such game. Took a look at the server page and figured _MA.

[calmon]

And don't forget to use CBM to create your pretender. The costs are often different!

[Ylvali]

pretender sent

[Lokean]

Hmmm, I still don't know who's uploaded the Pythium pretender, unless I've missed somebody changing nations in among all the discussion. As such, I've bumped the player limit up to 18 while I figure out what's going on, to make sure all the authentic players have space.

i should have set a master password...

[llamabeast]

You still can. Go to "Game settings and admin options", and then "Alter game settings".

You can also delete Pythium's pretender, if you decide you need to.

[Gandalf Parker]

The game hasnt started yet so you can. I highly recommend it. It seems that every game has SOMETHING down the road which requires a masster password.

I would actually suggest that Llamabeast set one to something random on every game as a default with an option for the game admin to change it to something else if they wish.

[llamabeast]

That's a good idea Gandalf, I'll put it on my list.

[quantum_mechani]

Any word about the missing players? Or about the wiki?

[Lokean]

No word on the missing players, no explanation for Pythium. I'll be sorting out what people have already written and sorting it into a wiki in the near future and will be contacting you all about the details soon.

If nothing changes by Friday (say... 7pm GMT?) I will be forced to boot Pythium and start with 15 players. That's still plenty for the map, so no problem there. After that I'll get back to organising an EA game.

[Lokean]

Oh, can one of the mods open up the other game thread please? It'll be a lot easier to transplant the story posts so far if they can be quoted to get at the markup (well, marginally).

[Tifone]

I am incredibly sorry to say I can no longer partecipate. My PC has gone and I'm posting from a extremely old pc which can't handle dom3's late battles without taking 1 minute from one casted spell to another (takes one hour to process a battle, no real way I can watch those and react with proper tactics). My current funds and duties don't allow me to replace the gaming PC soon so... I apologize to Lokean and all the other guys. :(

Have fun - I will read the chronicles! ;) See ya in a sequel maybe :cool:

(Remember to boot Aby from the game)

[Lokean]

You'd have to check with one of the more technically proficient Dom3 players, but I believe there's command line switches that reduce the rendering for battles, which might make it tolerable...

EDIT

Yeah, try starting it with -xxx as a switch. It makes the game hideously ugly, but it speeds up battles. Other switches that might speed up battles are:

--nolightfx
--partamount 1
--renderpath 0

But I'm not sure if they're included in the general graphics quality switch.

[lch]

The most important one is probably --nograss, and you can press the number keys during battle to set the amount of battle background detail (lower is less). If all else fails, use "w" for background off.

[quantum_mechani]

So, the wiki says we are using cumulative VPs? When we were discussing them earlier for some reason I thought we were talking normal vps. How many points would it be to victory then?

[Lokean]

Wouldn't late game battles benefit most from reducing the particle count and the render path?

[Lokean]

So, the wiki says we are using cumulative VPs?

No, sorry to have confused you. Victory is by accumulating victory points, but victory points are not cumulative. You need to be sitting on 16 victory points worth of provinces in midsummer in order to win. I'll go clarify that, shall I?

[Gandalf Parker]

For those still generating their god and trying to get the epithets (titles)right then Ive posted a tip on using a macro program. (in WinXP)
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=41656

[lch]

If somebody depends on specific pretender titles for the story, I could just give them out, too, though, before you waste too much time on this. Don't get too creative though. :P

[sansanjuan]

The most important one is probably --nograss, and you can press the number keys during battle to set the amount of battle background detail (lower is less). If all else fails, use "w" for background off.

Ich,
I thought the "no grass" prevented your mages from smoking dope prior to spell casting. ;)
-SSJ

[Tifone]

Hey, those commands worked great! I'm in again if you still want the old Tifone with you. :) Thanks a lot

[Lokean]

I've heard nothing from Pythium in here, so I'm going to have to remove them.

I'm about to create the game, initial hosting will be 48 hours.

[Zeldor]

Lokean:

Why midsummer? Only cumulative VPs are added midsummer. Normal ones are added when conquered.

[Tifone]

Yep, that's what I was thinking too. You conquer them, yours they are.

[Zeldor]

Game should have an option to play with Graphs off, but with VP graphs on.

[Lokean]

Lokean:

Why midsummer? Only cumulative VPs are added midsummer. Normal ones are added when conquered.

Just my mistake then. Disregard it.

[Kristoffer O]

Hi all. I will be away over christmas. I will still be able to play, but I will not be able to access my normal mail account unless I go through some hassle. Thus I would like the llamaserver to send my turns to my not-that-frequently-used hotmail adress. Who do I contact? Lokean, Llama himself, or is it possible to do by yourself from the admin page of the game?

jesus.osterman (at) hotmail if anyone authorized to fix it reads this post.

[Kristoffer O]

Emperor of Untimely Death ponders too much on the well being of his populace.

The Hidden One has already acted.

The distant people worshiping this Princess of Crafts seems industrious and curious. An embassy will be set up in her lands so that her subjects can present the imperial ministers with gifts of gold and marvelous contraptions.

The Emperor will allow all human ambassadors to kiss the feet of his his ministers. Such is His grace that he will allow ambassadors the right to a seasonal visit to his embassies. At the height of each season petitions are accepted. Gifts should be presented prior to any petition made lest the minister in question might not feel obliged to take said petition to the Emperor.

[Gandalf Parker]

Game should have an option to play with Graphs off, but with VP graphs on.
Dont know about "should" but it could be done. Turn off the in-game scores, turn on the scores.html dump, have the postexec script edit out just the Vp scores and post that to the webspace for the game. IN fact since VP is at the end its one of the easiest to trim out.
I will add that to my options list.

[Tifone]

I'm away from 28 to 2 :o

[quantum_mechani]

So did we decide we should make all diplomacy public? I think that would really add a nice touch, maybe a special wiki area for it?

[Tifone]

Not all diplomacy, or it wouldn't make sense imho (secret pacts, much boring trading), and even a bit out of character for whoever decides to narrate the chronicles as an infantryman (or similar) of his nation ;)
I think the public diplomacy should be just some nice touches.

BTW, I think I can rightly suppose that the diplomacy is Machiavellian/Vegas, true? Sounds strange to write "we have put our stealthy armies in the enemy territory, ready to strike the vital targets. Our armies have massed on the borders or in the labs, ready to invade or teleport inside the filthy enemy nation. Our lord the bloodthirsty Prince of Death Krakakazaurum the Eater of Newborn Children gives the command to attack! Chaaaaaaaaaaaaarg... oh wait. We had a NAP-3. Gotta be honourable and wait 3 months." :D