Madness - 24 players, MA+LA, CBM 1.4 (running)

[Zeldor]

As Kingmaker is finished, I want to join a new game. So I decided to start a new one instead :) Game will be for either 12 or 24 players, depending on the number of people interested. It will use the same map as Preponderance - WoG Remake.

Map: WoG Team Arena http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=41261
Age: MA + LA, only land nations
Magic Sites: 60
Rsearch: Normal
Gold&Resources: 125%
Mods:
- CBM 1.41b http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=41930 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7632&d=1232929560)
- Banned Spells http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=41297
- Banners & Standards http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=39989
- Single Age Complete http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6299&d=1212179279



Players signed so far: [ MA Ashdod and LA Ermor are banned, land nations only available]
01. Zeldor - LA TC
02. Apsophos - MA Arco
03. doncorazon - LA Pythium
04. Phalent - MA C'tis
05. Redeyes - LA Ulm
06. MaxEffect - LA Utgard
07. JimMorrison - MA Caelum
08. Ossa - MA Agartha
09. statttis - LA Arco
10. Juffos - LA Marignon
11. chrispedersen - MA Jotunheim
12. Quitti - LA Agartha
13. Starshine_Monarch - MA Bandar Log
14. Dragar - LA Abysia
15. qio - LA Man
16. KissBlade - LA Bogarus
17. Jazzepi - MA Man
18. Reay - LA Mictlan
19. Alpine Joe - MA Shinu
20. Wokeye - MA Vanheim
21. meister miagi - MA Pangaea
22. Incabulos - LA Pangea
23. evilhomer - LA Midgard
24. Archaeolept - MA Mictlan

[Redeyes]

Is there any special reason you don't want people to pick a nation yet ;)?

[Zeldor]

I don't know if it will be MA or MA + LA :). I may also allow some mods [like Xietor's MA Man one].

[Apsophos]

I'd like to play.
I dont know if something can save me from destruction in Preponderance and I haven't seen much of the map.

[Reverend Zombie]

Please consider me in.

[Zeldor]

Added.

[Phalent]

I want to play this game too :)

[Redeyes]

Sign me up.
Though, I had really like LA Ulm if we get LA nations, otherwise I'll settle for Eriu.
But if you want to do something awesome like randomizing nations, I'm all in :smirk:

[Zeldor]

Nah, it's not RAND :) Everyone should have a chance to play their favourite nation on a map with so many cool sites. I am tempted to play LA Agartha again if we get 24 players.

[MaxEffect]

Hereby stating my interest in participating in this game.
If it ends up as a 24 player game that would be all kinds of cool, but I'm happy with either setup :up:

[JimMorrison]

You evil evil man.

Put me in as tentative - I'll commit if it pushes towards 24 for sure, otherwise, I'll see if it has trouble filling up (would give me time to cut lose some other weight if so). ;)

[Ossa]

I'd join.

[statttis]

I'd like to play.
If there are late age nations, is Ermor also going to be banned?

[Juffos]

I would like to join.

[Zeldor]

Yep, Ermor would be banned too. It's a bit harder to gang on a nation on that map, so they could get a big advantage.

[chrispedersen]

Id like to join as well, if personal circumstances allow. By the time the game starts, may be ok.

[Zeldor]

QM says that CBM 1.4 should be within few days, so we will start with that :)

[Quitti]

I'm in

[Zeldor]

Ok, we filled 12 spots quite fast. Let's see if we have enough people for 24. On that map 24 is pretty much a deathmatch. 2 people per valley, which means you cannot evade war. And it will leave 12 players for midgame.

[Redeyes]

Sounds good.
So is anyone else interested in joining?

[Zeldor]

We got 12 players easily, let's give it some time and see if we can get 24. CBM 1.4 just got released, so take a look :)

[Starshine_Monarch]

I want in! I should be able to juggle a few games at once.

[Dragar]

I'm keen

[Zeldor]

Ok, let's make it oficially 24 player game, MA + LA.

[MaxEffect]

Great, may I grab LA Utgard then?

[Alpine Joe]

I'm still pretty new but if it is okay with you all I would love to get in on this.

[Starshine_Monarch]

If we're allowed to pick now, I'd have liked LA Atlantis, but with so few water provinces save in the caves, I think I'll go with MA Bandar Log instead.

Also, since the thread for CBM 1.4 says that the mod is somewhat bugged, will we use 1.3 until it's fixed, or do we keep with 1.4?

[Zeldor]

I am sure QM will fix any bugs before we start the game.

Yeah, feel free to choose nations now. Maybe everything except LA Mictlan [too much sacreds? :P], MA Ashdod [even CBM 1.4 changes are not enough] and LA Ermor.

I will go with LA TC or MA Shinu.

[Redeyes]

Pin me down as LA Ulm please

[Juffos]

Late Age Marignon for me, please.

[chrispedersen]

Damn so many choices! EA arcocephale since LA Ulm was taken.
and yes I realize, EA niefle, EA lanka, MA ermor, .. all those good nations still available...

[Redeyes]

Muahahaha
Though, this game was stated as MA+LA only.
I'm sorry, that precludes both your first and second choice ;)

[Apsophos]

Late Age Marignon for me, please.

LA Marignon must start on a coastal province. There's only one such spot on the map. (I play LA Marignon in Preponderance)
Not a big problem but everyone knows where you are.

[Zeldor]

IT won't be a problem here if we use random [among 24] starting positions for everyone. LA Mari and La Atlantis have that problem only when there is #specstart used in the map file. It's really lame bug.

[Apsophos]

Ok, I thought it required a coastal province in all cases.

If we're allowed to pick nations now, I'd like to get my [various parts of my anatomy] kicked as MA Arco.

[Quitti]

I'll take LA Agartha

[Zeldor]

I should release my LA Agartha guide soon, good nation :)

[qio]

sign me up

LA Ulm or give me a random pick

[Redeyes]

What's your random pick? ;)
My grubby paws demanded LA Ulm upthread

[llamabeast]

The game won't start properly if you put LA Marignon on a non-coastal start. I'm at least 80% sure of that.

[Zeldor]

I am 99,99% sure that LA Marignon can start on a non-coastal province if there are no viable coastal starting locations on the map. The problem occurs only when you put #specstart in the map file for any nation [it won't take random free prov like you'd expect]. I did some tests on that map before doing that brutal fix for Preponderance.

[KissBlade]

Sure sign me up.

[Jazzepi]

I'd like to play.

Jazzepi

[chrispedersen]

Muahahaha
Though, this game was stated as MA+LA only.
I'm sorry, that precludes both your first and second choice ;)

Fortunately that still left MA Ermor (mwahahah).
Practising my evil laugh...

[statttis]

I'd like LA Arcos.

[Dragar]

I thought we weren't meant to pick nations yet, but if we are then dibs on LA utgard

[Redeyes]

Maybe everything except LA Mictlan [too much sacreds? :P], MA Ashdod [even CBM 1.4 changes are not enough] and LA Ermor.
R'lyeh has a pretty heavy domkill too. I wouldn't know the difference, but are they better for a fun game than LA Ermor?

Fortunately that still left MA Ermor (mwahahah).
Practising my evil laugh...Needs more crushing the weak, imho :smirk:. May the best evil overlord win!

I thought we weren't meant to pick nations yet, but if we are then dibs on LA utgard

When you last posted, we weren't.
The first post could probably be updated that we are picking nations though.

MaxEffect asked for Utgard back on page three when the go was given, just so you know.

[KissBlade]

I'm really unconvinced we need banned spells? Also what does research: 60 mean??

[Zeldor]

Fixed first post, sorry for confusion.

Magic sites at 60. And I think that banning those 4 spells is unfortunately necessary in any bigger game.

There are no water start locations and not many water provinces, so there is no need to ban water nations. They simply cannot be picked on that map :)

[Dragar]

ah, nuts, would have done that frist post :(

Oh well, any chance of updating first post with races selected?

[Dragar]

will take LA abysia

[JimMorrison]

Oh my, nation picks! Put me down for MA Caelum please sir. <3

[KissBlade]

Also possible to link all the mods/map on the opening post so I can play with them a bit before jumping in? haha

[Wokeye]

Can I play? MA Vanheim please.

[meister_miagi]

I'd like to play as MA Pangaea please.

[Zeldor]

Isn't MA Jotunheim pretty much the same as LA Utgard? Or even better? I will provide links etc later today.

[Juffos]

Jotunheim without vaetti or gygjas, though they have near-useless hunam troops and easily nether darts spammers.

[Phalent]

I'll take MA C'tis please :)

[Reay]

Is there still room? I will take LA Mictlan. If they are banned I will take LA Gath instead.

[Zeldor]

Yep, we still need few more players. I am not really sure if I should ban LA Mictlan, their sacreds are not really better than MA one.

[chrispedersen]

ERm, Gath is in and you're thinking of banning LA Mictlan?

The difference between LA mictlan and EA mictlan is ... -2 blood (which makes gem income good for late age) and they get +2 commanders that don't have old age, and provide ready access to water, with one additional sacred.

Without water, I don't view the commanders as an issue. Now CBM made changes to kappas; off the top of my head, I don't know how relevent they are. But..... I never use the kappas. Jags are just too good.

Oh, and I think they get an oracle pretender they didn't have in EA. Still should be ok.

[Zeldor]

That's why I didn't put Mictlan as a banned nation in the first post, when I was updating it :)

[Zeldor]

It looks like we have 21 players already. I have updated first post. I still don't know if I should put gold and resources at 125 or 150. They are at 150 in Preponderance...

[Incabulos]

I would like to join this game but have yet to pick a nation, need to see what is taken so far.

[chrispedersen]

It looks like we have 21 players already. I have updated first post. I still don't know if I should put gold and resources at 125 or 150. They are at 150 in Preponderance...

Well, the resource cost for a lot of units is lower in CBM. A lot lower. Bogarus's cavalry is a *lot* more competitive for example.

I'm of two minds.. 150/150 was a lot of fun in preponderance. made a lot of builds possible that otherwise would not be.

I would be interested in seeing a game with resources at 75...

I think sites being set to 60 had a huge effect. And I think that 150/150 really encouraged and explosion - very rapid ramp ups. We are only well into the 2nd year, and already we are seeing 9 forts, 7 forts...

I think my vote would be 100/100 with sites set to 60. Make it a more subtle game, and let people learn the effects of CBM 1.4 by themselves rather than in combination with heavy resource + money.

Plus, people may want to change their nations if you change the settings. Of course, if it gets me LA ulm, I'm all in favor of it. However, MA Ermor looks a lot less interesting with heavy resources/income.

[Redeyes]

I would like to join this game but have yet to pick a nation, need to see what is taken so far.
The first post is up to date with nation picks.

[Zeldor]

I will go with 125/125 then, in the middle :) There will be some tight space in the beginning for everyone. I will try the restricted resources approach maybe for next game :) [it could probably work with just 12 players on a map big like that]

I also hope I will start working on my next map soon, hand-drawn that time :)

And yep, if someone wants to change the nation, there is no problem with that. I think I will go with LA TC and leave MA Shinu open.

[Alpine Joe]

If you don't want Shinuyama I will happily swipe it from you :)

[Incabulos]

So if I understand the map correctly each valley has 2 start locs and no start locs in the caves?
Are all the special locations as described in the thread or are they off/random?

[Zeldor]

All special provinces are as described. You can take a look at the map file or play the test game and most things will be pretty much the same here. Some garrisons are on top of existing random indies and of course items from #randomequip will be random.

And yes, it's a deathmatch game. There are 12 valleys, 2 players in each, which means there is war coming early and around turn 20-25 there will be just 12 players left, each with his own valley.

[Incabulos]

Ah ok thank you. I am going to play a gamble and go with LA Bogarus.

[KissBlade]

I've heard mention that there were special sites? ARe they randomized or do we get an indicator of where they were? (Saephi had *'s on their maps to denote special magic sites for example)

[Zeldor]

Just play a test game on it :) Put indies to 0 and conquer provinces if you like. That magic sites are revealed, so you automatically get them when you conquer the prov, without the need to site search.

there are also some provs marked as 'many sites' - all garrisons leading to plains, all cave entrances and I think that also that cave provs behind 2 water provs

There are also some changed poptypes. 4 outer plain cities have hoburgs. 6 gateways [cave provs leading to central island] have recruitable Troll Kings.

Everyone should take a look at the map and test it :) You know all settings. We will be probably starting on Monday/Tuesday.

[chrispedersen]

Ah ok thank you. I am going to play a gamble and go with LA Bogarus.

Bogarus is *vastly* improved under CBM. Sooo anyone vanilla bogarus is in for a *very* rude surprise. Starets rock.

[Incabulos]

Ah nice to know, thank you. I know very little about the changes CB makes. Just that the best way to learn is to be challenged.

I will have to go and see what changes CB makes, and examine the map in more detail. I am looking forward to this game, sounds like it will be alot of fun.

Not sure how much mixed ages changes the balance of things, but I am so few pre-conceived notions about how a game should play I doubt it would be too noticable to me :D. I understand armour improves and magic and gems wane as the ages pass but little more than that.
:up:

[Zeldor]

Indies will be from middle age, so that should help Bogarus a bit, garrisons may be tough for them though [but no fire resist and Bogarus can get flaming arrows]. And CBM is even better if you know less. In vanill there are only 5-10% spells worth using. So you'd waste lots of gems experimenting. In CBM most of spells are worth using [even when still many are worth much less].

[chrispedersen]

Ah nice to know, thank you. I know very little about the changes CB makes. Just that the best way to learn is to be challenged.

I will have to go and see what changes CB makes, and examine the map in more detail. I am looking forward to this game, sounds like it will be alot of fun.

Not sure how much mixed ages changes the balance of things, but I am so few pre-conceived notions about how a game should play I doubt it would be too noticable to me :D. I understand armour improves and magic and gems wane as the ages pass but little more than that.
:up:

Forgetting spells for a moment, the biggest thing is that bogarus no longer HAS to have a +prod scale. Base resources for cav went from 15 -> 2, the biggest change in the game, bar one.

[Reverend Zombie]

LA Pythium, please.

[KissBlade]

I'll try LA Patala.

[Evilhomer]

I am in, give me LA midgard

[Zeldor]

Good, it looks like we need just 1 more player and QM to fix CBM 1.4 :)

[archaeolept]

MA mict thnx

[archaeolept]

I vote for reasonable victory conditions, as the end game on a large map is a monstrous thing.

[Incabulos]

Forgetting spells for a moment, the biggest thing is that bogarus no longer HAS to have a +prod scale. Base resources for cav went from 15 -> 2, the biggest change in the game, bar one.


I am definitely a noob and posted in teh CB 1.4 thread but I don't understand this. 3 of the 4 cav units are actually 2 resources more expensive than without CB mod.

<scratches head>

[chrispedersen]

Forgetting spells for a moment, the biggest thing is that bogarus no longer HAS to have a +prod scale. Base resources for cav went from 15 -> 2, the biggest change in the game, bar one.


I am definitely a noob and posted in teh CB 1.4 thread but I don't understand this. 3 of the 4 cav units are actually 2 resources more expensive than without CB mod.

<scratches head>


Strange. I have verified what you said and its correct. Very weird.

[Incabulos]

not sure how it all works with their added warhorse hoof attack etc... but it does seem strange to me, but whadda I know... And dang it all I made the dreaded "teh" typo.

[chrispedersen]

LA Utgard please.

[Zeldor]

Utgard is taken.

Victory conditions will be 13/26 VPs required. 1 VPs per capital + central island with 2 VPs.

[Jazzepi]

MA Man

Jazzepi

[chrispedersen]

Utgard is taken.

Victory conditions will be 13/26 VPs required. 1 VPs per capital + central island with 2 VPs.

OH drat. Can you update the front page?
Ok. How about LA-Mictlan

[archaeolept]

that's been taken - they're listed right there on the front page chris :p

[chrispedersen]

=P Obviously attention to detail is a major strength =). Ok. Last try .. JOT!

[Incabulos]

seems there might still be some bugs with the Bogarus Cav changes so I am looking at changing, how soon woudl you need to know if I want to change?

Thanks

[Redeyes]

Before you e-mail your pretender in, really.
Everyone saying what Nation they want here is so people like Chris can be steered away from the nations they want ;)
This is just us getting organized

[Zeldor]

There will be simply less nations to choose from later.

[chrispedersen]

Well, I was actually looking forward to Jot..

but Incabulus is relatively new. If he wants to play Jot I'll relinquish it and play bogarus.

[Zeldor]

Didn't you pick MA Ermor? :)

[Incabulos]

Well, I was actually looking forward to Jot..

but Incabulus is relatively new. If he wants to play Jot I'll relinquish it and play bogarus.


I am playing Jotunheim in a a game already but thank you for the offer :D

[chrispedersen]

Didn't you pick MA Ermor? :)

Luaghing I think that Zeldor was hinting you could play Ermor as that was my previous nation.

[Zeldor]

Yeah, switches are fine.

Incabulos: You can always try MA Ermor then. Good sacreds, good mages.

[Redeyes]

And a hilarious ability to reanimate free undead...

[Wokeye]

Is that WOG v2? When I test it (with MA Vanheim) it keeps saying 'cannot find suitable starting location' or similar, then crashes - any ideas how to fix this?

[Zeldor]

Maybe you put other players to random? It could pick water nation that way and there are no valid starting locations for water nations.

[qio]

LA Man or MA Marignon

if both are taken, a random nation is fine

[Redeyes]

Both should be free, which would you rather have?

[Wokeye]

Maybe you put other players to random? It could pick water nation that way and there are no valid starting locations for water nations.

Ahh, that was it - so the crash was related to the water nation random AI pick. Cheers.

[qio]

kinda hinted the order - LA Man is fine

[Incabulos]

Going to go with MA Abysia

[Zeldor]

I still have no word from MaxEffect. If he does not declare his nation today we will have to look for another player on his place.

[Traks]

I would be happy to be "another" player then.
I will try LA Ermor if possible.

[Reay]

He was one of the first to state his nation of choice:

Great, may I grab LA Utgard then?

[Zeldor]

Right, my bad :) Well, so I have now just to get info from QM about CBM 1.41 and I will create game on llamaserver when it's available.

[Incabulos]

hah just played a test game last night, that sure is a special situation, especially how soon you need to face your valley room-mate and that you know exactly where they will be. And you are basically forced to expand in their direction because of the strong indies hemming you in. Fun stuff.

[chrispedersen]

Hmm. I tried a trial last night.
Bogarus still sucks = )

I'm still staying with JOT.

[Zeldor]

It's not supposed to be normal game. It has to be brutal and fun. And yes, half of players will be out by mid-game. You may get unlucky with neighbour in a valley etc, but well, life is not fair.

[Incabulos]

Oh I agree, my "fun stuff" comment was sincere :)

I just want to make sure I am not picking a nation that can't get a game plan going in the first year... Heck I was at the enemy capitol in my valley within half a year so I can see you knowing how your neighbour is by turn 3.

Cool to play a game with such a different strategy. It has long term potential since it is large map but you need blitz style survival/tactics in the early game.

[KissBlade]

Since Bogarus is open I'll take that instead of Patala. I have a death wish. =)

[archaeolept]

starets are the sex

[Jazzepi]

Can we get this game up on Llamaserver soon? It's going to take a while to submit this many pretenders.

Jazzepi

[Incabulos]

And I will be submitting MA Pangaea... final decision. :D

[Incabulos]

Oops MA Pan is taken... I meant LA Pangaea :D But still playing around any way.

So we waiting for the CB 1.4 to be updated before starting, correct?

[archaeolept]

yes... also, while some people are familiar w/ this cool map, i'm still trying to puzzle it out :)

so i'd prefer a few days of futzing around if no one is in too much of a hurry.

I'm pretty sure we're already 2 months ahead in getting this started than Zeldor's last game ;p

[Zeldor]

Don't mention The Curse! :P

Yeah, we are just waiting for CBM 1.41

[Incabulos]

Yeah this map config is definitely interesting. Breaking out of the valley you share with your neighbour will be a challenge.

[Jazzepi]

Why are we waiting for 1.41 again? D:

Jazzepi

[Zeldor]

Becaus 1.4 is screwed :)

[chrispedersen]

why do you think its screwed zeldor.. I've looked at it a lot and thought the problems minor. If there's only a few things, I dont mind editing them myself.

[Zeldor]

Well, for last few days QM was saying "IT will be fixed and released today", so I decided to wait. But I'm not very patient person, so I created the game now. It uses CBM 1.4.

So submit your pretenders. Remember to enable all mods [well, CBM and single age should be enough].

Important! If you use Single Age Complete correctly, you can choose only from middle age. And all nations will be there. If you try to just get a nation from LA without enabling it, you will get an error from llamaserver.

[Zeldor]

All praise Irgan, Lord of the Sacred Eye, Guardian of the Tablets of Destiny, the Unshakable, the Rice Minister!

[Starshine_Monarch]

Well, for last few days QM was saying "IT will be fixed and released today", so I decided to wait. But I'm not very patient person, so I created the game now. It uses CBM 1.4.

So submit your pretenders. Remember to enable all mods [well, CBM and single age should be enough].

Important! If you use Single Age Complete correctly, you can choose only from middle age. And all nations will be there. If you try to just get a nation from LA without enabling it, you will get an error from llamaserver.

Are you sure they all appear in Middle Age? When I enable the mod, they all appear in EA and nothing in MA when I go to make a pretender. It still keeps the pretender I saved for MA Bandar however.

[Incabulos]

Probably won't be able to upload a pretender until tonight (10 hours or so from now).

[Zeldor]

Very old version put them in EA afaik. Follow the link in first post here, not the one from llamaserver. You want Single Age Complete.

[Incabulos]

Well, for last few days QM was saying "IT will be fixed and released today", so I decided to wait. But I'm not very patient person, so I created the game now. It uses CBM 1.4.

So submit your pretenders. Remember to enable all mods [well, CBM and single age should be enough].

Important! If you use Single Age Complete correctly, you can choose only from middle age. And all nations will be there. If you try to just get a nation from LA without enabling it, you will get an error from llamaserver.

Are you sure they all appear in Middle Age? When I enable the mod, they all appear in EA and nothing in MA when I go to make a pretender. It still keeps the pretender I saved for MA Bandar however.

When creating game with the mod enabled only MA is selectable when selecting Age/Era EA and LA are greyed out/disabled.
When you go to pick a nation ALL the nations of ALL 3 ages are listed.
The mod enables all ages so you will first see all the EA nations then all the MA nations then LA with a smattering of EA, MA & LA maxied at the bottom of the list (the newest nations added).

At least that is how it works for me. (with the newest version of All Ages Complete)

[Zeldor]

Game settings have been modified to use CBM 1.41. I don't think that you need to upload pretenders again [I think that only Fenrir got changed].

[chrispedersen]

Damn. Back to the drawing board. But the good news is he's cheaper = )

[Jazzepi]

Zeldor, you should setup a hard deadline so that people get their pretenders in.

Jazzepi

[Zeldor]

Yeah, I will PM everyone that hasn't submitted pretender yet. We cannot start with less than 24 players on that map though.

[Incabulos]

apparently there is a bug with 1.31 that gives LA Agartha air 8 mages

Edit: oops I meant 1.41

[Jazzepi]

apparently there is a bug with 1.41 that gives LA Agartha air 8 mages

I'd like to switch to LA Agartha before the game starts.

Jazzepi

[Incabulos]

You will have to bare knuckle fight quitti for it. Or maybe a duel with frozen cod clubs.

[Jazzepi]

Sorry, I only have frozen Salmon. Does that mean I'm disqualified? :((((

Jazzepi

[Zeldor]

Those that do not submit pretenders by tomorrow morning [GMT time] will be replaced with other players. If CBM 1.42 won't be released when we have all pretenders, we will use CBM 1.4, not 1.41.

[Quitti]

apparently there is a bug with 1.31 that gives LA Agartha air 8 mages

Edit: oops I meant 1.41

Yeah, that was me who reported it. Found it out when testing out tactics. Kind of overpowered really. Anyone who has time should check if it is a8 in 1.4, since I only checked out 1.41

[Zeldor]

No, it isn't in 1.4. I was talking with QM on IRC after 1.4 was released about LA Agartha and suggested him to add H1 on Blindlords, so they could effectively lead Blindfighters. He added 8 lvls of magic 1 instead of 1 lvl of magic 8 there.

[archaeolept]

should be easy to fix... i would expect a revision right away :)

[Redeyes]

Well, I submitted my pretender and now we are just missing Reverend Zombie and Incabulos, who I play another game with and where he just submitted a turn.

I figure we'll be on the road soon

[archaeolept]

map bug, 223 and 245 should be connected, as per symmetry for all the other sections.

[Incabulos]

I have submitted

[Zeldor]

Reverend Zombie last activity is on 17th, he didn't read my PM and he didn't submit his pretender. I will try to find a new player on his place.

[Zeldor]

Ok, doncorazon took place of Reverend Zombie, he is going with LA Pythium. I will give him some time to submit a pretenders, so I think we will start it tomorrow, with 48h for the first turn, so everyone can do it properly. We will go with 24h till around turn 20-25.

[chrispedersen]

Zeldor, I can fix the Agartha bug if you are so inclined..

[Zeldor]

QM promised to release a fix tomorrow. I can fix that bug too if he won't do it :) It's just 1 line.

[KissBlade]

I sent in the wrong pretender, do I just email the new one to llamaserv?

[Zeldor]

Yep.

[chrispedersen]

Sooo we've 24 pretenders submitted. When do we start?

[quantum_mechani]

Sorry I have not had a chance to release the new version today as promised. However, as Zeldor says it's trivial to create an unofficial patch for that one issue.

[chrispedersen]

As I mentioned to QM
I've got it done:

Fixed the Fenris/Black bull bug,
the skratti bug (no upkeep)
the Agarth blindfighter
and lowered the cost of the hoburg priest in keeping with
the other hoburg changes.
And one other bug where the unit didn't have an end statement.

do you want it Zeldor?

[Zeldor]

Yeah. I was going to change just blindfighter, but you can give your version :)

[Zeldor]

Ok, I'm not waiting for chrispedersen. He didn't show up with hix fixes for a whole day, so I just fixed Blindlord bug and here is 1.41b, I am starting the game with that.

[Quitti]

The Following mod needs to be installed: Single Age mod.dm

I thought we were using SingleAgeComplete.dm?

[archaeolept]

yeah... is there a link to the mod you wish us to d/l, or is this a llamaserver thingie?

[Zeldor]

Yeah. Just make a copy and rename it to match. Llamabeast still didn't fix it.

[Zeldor]

Make a copy of your SingleAgeComplete.dm and rename it to "Single Age mod.dm". It is llamaserver problem with multiage games. We had to do the same for Preponderance.

[chrispedersen]

Ok, I'm not waiting for chrispedersen. He didn't show up with hix fixes for a whole day, so I just fixed Blindlord bug and here is 1.41b, I am starting the game with that.

Yeah I was out all day. Plus I don't know a way to send you something, anyway.

[chrispedersen]

we are just waiting on man

[Redeyes]

Second to last to submit and I got the most evil set of random events I have yet seen on a second turn, must be karma :sick:

[Zeldor]

MA Mictlan really misunderstood how to expand :) His neighbour must be happy.

P.S. Found my neighbour already. That will be interesting fight. I hoped for someone a bit weaker...

[Incabulos]

Second to last to submit and I got the most evil set of random events I have yet seen on a second turn, must be karma :sick:

It's a crapshoot alright. In another game where I have turmoil 3 luck 3 I have had little events at all in 11 turns. In a test I did to see how my forces would fare against another for that game I got a few 1000 gold events and a bunch of other, almost 3 a turn every turn... Curse you chance... curse you!

Um I mean...chance is awesome (crosses fingers)

[archaeolept]

the nation of MA Mictlan would like a moment of silence for our brave slinger, who so selflessly gave his life for the greater good.

[chrispedersen]

Well, I haven't seen the turn, but I suspect I know what it means. Congratulations =)

I've posted for a sub = ).

[DonCorazon]

Why are you quitting?

[Evilhomer]

Because he suffered a setback ?

[KissBlade]

I'm posting to let everyone know I am refusing to join another MP game where chrispedersen is playing. Because that is a damned joke.

[archaeolept]

less ragging on chris and more poasting about my glorious victory :judge:

[Reay]

Hmm strange, I did not automatically receive my turn. I had to request a resend from Llamaserver.

I am guessing problems with either Hotmail or Llamas mail server. I have never had problems with his server before though.

[Zeldor]

Situation like that happens, it's quite rare though.

[chrispedersen]

For the record, I also did not receive my turn, without asking for it to be resent.

[Jazzepi]

Well, I haven't seen the turn, but I suspect I know what it means. Congratulations =)

I've posted for a sub = ).

Lulululuz. Ohnoes, a stale ;.;

Jazzepi

[DonCorazon]

For the record, I also did not receive my turn, without asking for it to be resent.

I noticed Jotun staled anyway. I realize it sucks to lose your pretender but it would be decent of you to play on and stick it out rather than dump this to a sub or just stale.

[chrispedersen]

Hey guys,

First: I had no intention of staling I had set it to AI and looked for a sub. But I have staled intermittently on several games recently.

However, said efforts were a bit sabotaged by KissBlade. And I have since heard about this in other games.

Usually I don't comment about games, but I've gotten so much grief about it, I thought I would comment.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Everyone approaches a game with different strategies. There are bless strategies, rainblow pretender strategies. Hordes of undead strategies.

I personally consider Jotun one of the weakest of the giants. However, like other races, their pretenders are reasonable. And unusually we had fixed starts in this game. So I wanted to go for quick dominion kill strategy.

The vehicle for this was a Carrion dragon with Dom 10. To accomplish this, scales are mostly in the -2 to -3 range. I carefully maxed out the dragons combat ability by adding earth and death, having more than 203 hp and prot 20+.

In more than 10 test games, I was able to accomplish dominion death prior to turn 6. The quick accomplishment of a second castle balancing the lack of scales.

In this particular case, I got unlucky in at a couple of areas. First, despite the prot 20, the first couple of hits on the dragon yielded crippled and never healing wound. And secondly, dominion death didn't occur even though my opponent did not have an awake pretender.

The manual, page 93: gives a good reason why this strategy usally works.

My pretender, generates one dominion, and with my opponent having one candle (all he ever had) - I have two additional checks at 95% to generate two additional candles.

So, the math is (more or less)
Me: 1+2x95%
Oppeonent: three temple checks. Usually dominion is around 7. Usually, he will score 2 dominion checks. And, if a player did not prophetize its usually game over.

I don't want to get into math too much, but I'll note a few other considerations. If the player took an awake pretender there was about a 50/50 shot of intercepting it and killing the pretender.

Additionally, the rules on dominion spread favored me - because my opponents temple spreads could have spread to adjacent territories, which would have boosted the hp and strength of my god. (Strength is important as it affects the range of a dragons breath weapon.)

-----------------------------------------------------------------
So, none of this happened, my pretender died.

So what would you have me do? I think most people would agree the position is irretreviably broken.

I personally did not say anything, to avoid disturbing the game, but as other people obviously were, I thought perhaps to clear the air, or at least express my side of it.

The strategy I chose was an unusual strategy - but it was a legitimate strategy, with reasonable chances of success. And I didn't just choose it to spoil a game.

Is there anything significantly different from what I did, and a standard turn 6 bless rush? Other than losing, of course = ).

So, I think it is obvious that the position is broken; we have all dropped positions that we recognized as broken. In what way does me playing the position a few more turns make the game any better than setting it to ai? In what way is the game damaged by me dropping?

Or is the idea that I should have to play, and live with the strategy, ie., ' punish me' for trying a different strategy (and failing)? I don't think it makes the game better - but if its really necessary.. ok. Although my opponent has expressed a preference that I just resign.

As a note, I offered the position to my opponent - and even he didn't want it = ).

Anyway, I hope that removes a little bit of the mystery, and shows that I'm not just quitting in a fit of pique.

Best wishes..

[archaeolept]

i think your analysis is faulty. you can't compare getting dominion deaths in test games against the AI and against human opponents. the AI is stupid, and might not preach, and often has horrendous dominion scores - how did you determine the AI had dom 7?

also, as a minor note, the second wound was chest wound, not crippled, which is very minor for a zero enc pretender.


anyways, I personally have no problems w/ you staling out - my income is currently about 10% that of the leaders' :D

fight on though if you wish - i'm of course game.

edit: MA Mictlan is proud to point out that they doubled the size of their empire last turn! who else amongst you can say the same!11 :p

[JimMorrison]

...Although my opponent has expressed a preference that I just resign...

I'm sure it would break his heart to have the valley all to himself by turn 7. :re:

[archaeolept]

...Although my opponent has expressed a preference that I just resign...

I'm sure it would break his heart to have the valley all to himself by turn 7. :re:wait, excuse me, I missed that part.

I said that I would prefer that chrisp continue to fight. My reference to resigning was in response to chrisp's pm upon killing my patrolling army and besieging my cap on turn 3: he asked me to resign, as he would also be getting a sieging army there in 2 turns (which was a lie, and funnily enough, if he had actually tried that he would have had a territory for his god to retreat to :D.

Here's from my own PM after chris announces he's going to quit:

you really shouldn't sub it out... those scales work if you get a quick kill, but otherwise will be horrendous. either fight it out (the best option), or if you can't bear you can follow your own suggestion and resign I was just arguing against scamming some poor noob into taking over an awful position w/ LA ermorian scales and a dead 800 pt pretender, one unlikely to come back for a fair while, given jotun's priests...

As such, ChrisP's claim that I expressed a preference that he resign is a bald-faced lie. It was he, after jumping me and when I had a total of 11 troops left in the whole game, and no mages, tried to get me to resign, so that he would have a better chance... I'm happy to quote chris's own pms to me if he wishes.

Also, how the fsck do i get the whole valley to myself by turn 7 when I have 2 territories now, Jim? I have 2 territories, 20 troops, and an income this turn of a 100 gold - and somehow this translates into me having the whole valley? go f yourself.

[JimMorrison]

Also, how the fsck do i get the whole valley to myself by turn 7 when I have 2 territories now, Jim? I have 2 territories, 20 troops, and an income this turn of a 100 gold - and somehow this translates into me having the whole valley? go f yourself.

Excuse me?

Anyway, you are bounded by large indie garrisons. My point was that no matter how dire your situation may be atm, since most people are either already in, or about to start a painful early war - in about a year you would likely be one of the strongest nations in the game.

And I always thought you were nice.

[archaeolept]

Also, how the fsck do i get the whole valley to myself by turn 7 when I have 2 territories now, Jim? I have 2 territories, 20 troops, and an income this turn of a 100 gold - and somehow this translates into me having the whole valley? go f yourself.

Excuse me?

Anyway, you are bounded by large indie garrisons. My point was that no matter how dire your situation may be atm, since most people are either already in, or about to start a painful early war - in about a year you would likely be one of the strongest nations in the game.

And I always thought you were nice.I don't like having lies told about me. And, no, I'm not nice. What ever gave you that impression?

at least i'm not a retard :D

I have 2 territories. even a moron should realize that's not a whole valley. As to wars, i've suffered more loss than anyone else in the game so far, and yet I am emerging victorious due to a successful SC kill. That's how it works. You can whah whah all you want; I have little doubt that your puny and poorly managed nation will have it's come-uppance soon enough :)

edit: also, ChrisP's dracolich strategy wasn't necessarily a bad one. It had a very good chance of working, though his analysis of dom kill likelyhood was well off.

[chrispedersen]

Damn...

A few points arch might be right that it was a chest wound - I don't have the turn result from turn 2, yet overall what I said was roughly accurate. The combat results (crippled chest wound) in the first few hits was fairly unlucky (especially against pd chaff). And I do believe I got a NHW .. but if it was later..mea culpa.

Second.. I would never *scam out* the position. I never have. I would tell (whomever expressed interest) the actual facts.

Third, As I had already said to you I wasn't continueing if I lost, I really think my wording actually reflected the available options. However, arch if you would rather I said 'my opponent has expressed a preference that I resign rather than sub the position out' I accept that.

Likewise, I did say I was sending a force to get there in two turns. That was the plan. Casualties made it not work. I don't think its appropriate to call that a lie either. I'm a pretender, what I project to happen doesn't necessarily come true.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Regarding the strategy, I simulated it many many times, both versus myself, and against AI's.

I wasn't saying that the average AI Dom was a 7. I was saying that I expected good results against players, as the average bless in MP seems to be around a 7. Plugging that into the formulas for dominion spread, and empirical evidence suggested reasonable prospects of success.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

I really do not want to ignite a fire storm. Nor do I want to impugn arch in any fashion... he has been the model of good sportsmanship.

Hell, I can only hope if someone dropped a dragon on me on turn two, that I'd respond as graciously. Again, it was only because I was getting a lot of questions (and some quite unkind remarks) that I wanted to explain a little bit about the strategy, and why dropping was a reasonable course of action.

Best to all

By the way.. I *am* having a problem with the server. I have tried on multiple occassions now to submit a turn, and it continues to reject the turn saying wrong turn number. The last time, for turn 7. I have restarted the turn from scratch, deleted the .2h file.. and still no luck.

[archaeolept]

my opponent has expressed a preference that I resign rather than sub the position out' I accept that.My preference, clearly stated in my PM that I quoted, was that you continue fighting, but that resigning was better than finding some poor schlub to take over a position even you don't want.
Likewise, I did say I was sending a force to get there in two turns. That was the plan. Casualties made it not work. I don't think its appropriate to call that a lie either. I'm a pretender, what I project to happen doesn't necessarily come true.fair enough. I have no idea what was happening w/ your expansion force, though it seemed to have been able to gain a territory/turn.

I would guess half the nations in this game have an awake SC and a dom of 9 or so. Very few will have a dom of 7 or less; even those could probably negate dom kill by preaching, unless you managed to kill their prophet.

edit: delete the 2h and the trn file, have the turn file resent, and try again.

[chrispedersen]

In terms of the viability of the strategy as a whole.. I kept the score tables from turn one.. (not that it would have mattered I was pretty much committed with this build).

8 nations started with awake pretenders. The total dominion score was 1100+, dividing by the players yielded an average dominion of 46. My dominion score was 69 (with a 10 dominion)

So the average dominion was roughly 2/3 of mine, rounding up.. 7.

[DonCorazon]

I think most people would agree the position is irretreviably broken.


Substitute wanted for Madness.
Early part of the game. You have 6 territories: Your nearest neighbor has 1. You have leads in research, dominion, army size.

You are playing Jotunheim. Are you giant enough?

Classic.

[KissBlade]

random bs

Here is the problem on how you handled your game.

You went into the game with an all or nothing strat in hopes of blind luck looking in your favor rather than actual strategy. I believe that you fully intended on quitting/subbing/staling if anything even went wrong with your start. I would not have minded this as much if not for a few factors.

After you got lucky enough to bump into a nation that didn't take a SC pretender god, you tried to get him to flat out resign to you to give you an undeserved leg up in the game. "It was he, after jumping me and when I had a total of 11 troops left in the whole game, and no mages, tried to get me to resign, so that he would have a better chance..."

This was annoying enough.

Second, if you truly decided your game is over (hardly since Archae is in an awful spot as well) then saying, "good game" and getting the last few turns over with would've been proper form. Heck, even doing some half assed turns or worse, staling is better form than /lying/ about your position to get a sub.

Also I don't believe a word you said about you couldn't expand due to losses. Your army graph never dipped and you had constant province growth.

As for your "test games" and claim that "the manual said it would work!" I don't know whether to laugh or shake my head.

As I said, I refuse to join another game that you're playing. Laters.

[chrispedersen]

random bs

Here is the problem on how you handled your game.

You went into the game with an all or nothing strat in hopes of blind luck looking in your favor rather than actual strategy. I believe that you fully intended on quitting/subbing/staling if anything even went wrong with your start. I would not have minded this as much if not for a few factors.

After you got lucky enough to bump into a nation that didn't take a SC pretender god, you tried to get him to flat out resign to you to give you an undeserved leg up in the game. "It was he, after jumping me and when I had a total of 11 troops left in the whole game, and no mages, tried to get me to resign, so that he would have a better chance..."

This was annoying enough.

Second, if you truly decided your game is over (hardly since Archae is in an awful spot as well) then saying, "good game" and getting the last few turns over with would've been proper form. Heck, even doing some half assed turns or worse, staling is better form than /lying/ about your position to get a sub.

Also I don't believe a word you said about you couldn't expand due to losses. Your army graph never dipped and you had constant province growth.

As for your "test games" and claim that "the manual said it would work!" I don't know whether to laugh or shake my head.

As I said, I refuse to join another game that you're playing. Laters.


KissBlade..

I'm not going to stoop to the same level. I will merely point out:

I sent congratulations to arch, even before I opened the turn.

Before this conversation, I reported to llama that I was having problems, first with getting the turn (check back in this thread), and then secondly everytime I submit a turn it says wrong turn number.

Third: It is rather usual to start a *second* army.
As I never expanded *2* - do you think that is just remotely possible it might be because my expansion with my *first* army was thwarted? Or do you really think that, having spent 800 points on a SC, I would have preferred leaving him no space to which to retreat?

Fourth - Someone that is relying on blind luck, would neither keep the scores table, nor analyze. I've cut an pasted it below.

Best Wishes


LlamaServer Scores, Madness turn 2
Provinces
Nation Provinces
Independents 389
MA Arcoscephale 1
MA Man 1
MA Mictlan 1
MA Agartha 1
MA Caelum 1
MA C'tis 1
MA Pangaea 1
MA Vanheim 1
MA Jotunheim 2
MA Bandar Log 1
MA Shinuyama 1
LA Arcoscephale 1
LA Man 1
LA Ulm 1
LA Marignon 2
LA Mictlan 1
LA T'ien Ch'i 1
LA Agartha 1
LA Abysia 1
LA Pangaea 1
LA Midgard 1
LA Utgard 1
LA Pythium 1
LA Bogarus 1

Forts
Nation Forts
Independents 0
MA Arcoscephale 1
MA Man 1
MA Mictlan 1
MA Agartha 1
MA Caelum 1
MA C'tis 1
MA Pangaea 1
MA Vanheim 1
MA Jotunheim 1
MA Bandar Log 1
MA Shinuyama 1
LA Arcoscephale 1
LA Man 1
LA Ulm 1
LA Marignon 1
LA Mictlan 1
LA T'ien Ch'i 1
LA Agartha 1
LA Abysia 1
LA Pangaea 1
LA Midgard 1
LA Utgard 1
LA Pythium 1
LA Bogarus 1

Income
Nation Income
Independents 30050
MA Arcoscephale 713
MA Man 748
MA Mictlan 600
MA Agartha 391
MA Caelum 541
MA C'tis 735
MA Pangaea 315
MA Vanheim 963
MA Jotunheim 450
MA Bandar Log 657
MA Shinuyama 1133
LA Arcoscephale 360
LA Man 829
LA Ulm 164
LA Marignon 516
LA Mictlan 356
LA T'ien Ch'i 705
LA Agartha 470
LA Abysia 314
LA Pangaea 985
LA Midgard 786
LA Utgard 658
LA Pythium 663
LA Bogarus 808

Gem Income
Nation Gem Income
Independents 255
MA Arcoscephale 5
MA Man 5
MA Mictlan 5
MA Agartha 5
MA Caelum 5
MA C'tis 5
MA Pangaea 5
MA Vanheim 5
MA Jotunheim 5
MA Bandar Log 5
MA Shinuyama 5
LA Arcoscephale 4
LA Man 4
LA Ulm 4
LA Marignon 4
LA Mictlan 5
LA T'ien Ch'i 4
LA Agartha 4
LA Abysia 4
LA Pangaea 4
LA Midgard 4
LA Utgard 4
LA Pythium 4
LA Bogarus 4

Research
Nation Research
Independents 0
MA Arcoscephale 8
MA Man 0
MA Mictlan 0
MA Agartha 0
MA Caelum 0
MA C'tis 13
MA Pangaea 14
MA Vanheim 0
MA Jotunheim 0
MA Bandar Log 29
MA Shinuyama 8
LA Arcoscephale 11
LA Man 0
LA Ulm 0
LA Marignon 0
LA Mictlan 0
LA T'ien Ch'i 0
LA Agartha 0
LA Abysia 44
LA Pangaea 0
LA Midgard 0
LA Utgard 38
LA Pythium 14
LA Bogarus 11

Dominion
Nation Dominion
Independents 0
MA Arcoscephale 48
MA Man 24
MA Mictlan 45
MA Agartha 56
MA Caelum 35
MA C'tis 66
MA Pangaea 69
MA Vanheim 45
MA Jotunheim 69
MA Bandar Log 23
MA Shinuyama 45
LA Arcoscephale 59
LA Man 34
LA Ulm 24
LA Marignon 79
LA Mictlan 22
LA T'ien Ch'i 44
LA Agartha 35
LA Abysia 67
LA Pangaea 56
LA Midgard 34
LA Utgard 34
LA Pythium 56
LA Bogarus 57

Army Size
Nation Army Size
Independents 32000
MA Arcoscephale 85
MA Man 56
MA Mictlan 98
MA Agartha 74
MA Caelum 123
MA C'tis 94
MA Pangaea 86
MA Vanheim 65
MA Jotunheim 76
MA Bandar Log 76
MA Shinuyama 65
LA Arcoscephale 71
LA Man 68
LA Ulm 60
LA Marignon 57
LA Mictlan 112
LA T'ien Ch'i 119
LA Agartha 68
LA Abysia 62
LA Pangaea 100
LA Midgard 74
LA Utgard 68
LA Pythium 46
LA Bogarus 80

Victory Points
Nation Victory Points
Independents 2
MA Arcoscephale 1
MA Man 1
MA Mictlan 1
MA Agartha 1
MA Caelum 1
MA C'tis 1
MA Pangaea 1
MA Vanheim 1
MA Jotunheim 1
MA Bandar Log 1
MA Shinuyama 1
LA Arcoscephale 1
LA Man 1
LA Ulm 1
LA Marignon 1
LA Mictlan 1
LA T'ien Ch'i 1
LA Agartha 1
LA Abysia 1
LA Pangaea 1
LA Midgard 1
LA Utgard 1
LA Pythium 1
LA Bogarus 1




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[Reay]

Arch,

So how did you manage to kill Jotun's pretender anyway?

I assume it was a retreat kill due to afflictions?

[Redeyes]

He is the other Mictlan, so a heavily blessed troops powered defeat?

[archaeolept]

I had 2 unarmored slingers in the front, to catch his breath, which is pretty useless anyways.

one prophet nearish the front, who divine blessed then mixed up smites and sermons.

one mictlan tribal king, w/ a purchased vine whip, and 2 jaguar guards, on one side.

7 jags on the other.

The vine whip only hit twice i think, but still helped. The morale on the jags varied widely, from 8 to 21 i think, due to sermons and the draco lich's +12 fear (also awe +2); but they mostly held.

Draco had 180 base -36 for dominion -36 for neverhealing wound, for a total of 138 hp (:p). he was not crippled; chest wound does nothing.

Pounded on him w/ large sharp-edged chunks of obsidian until he retreated into *poof*

the king and his guards had broken, but the other 7 were still in high dudgeon.

one brave slinger gave his life for his god and nation.

The key to this was to deny the beast his attacks. The vine whip helped, but mostly it was the Twist of Fate on the Jags, especially as the AI does not prioritise units who have already lost their Twist. So damage was minimal, and did not feed into loss of morale.

[JimMorrison]

Second.. I would never *scam out* the position. I never have. I would tell (whomever expressed interest) the actual facts.

Well, to be fair, when I took over Gath for you in Kingmaker, after I PMed you for info on the build and intended strat (I had never even tried Gath before), my reply was from Zeldor or Xietor (can't remember who was admin at the start), asking for my email for the position. I never got the info..... And when I subbed Niefelheim in World In Crisis, you let the game stale again rather than just buying a Jarl and submitting as I asked, and when I saw the scales (3 Drain, weee!), lack of research, low gold income, and almost nonexistent gem income, well I didn't want to play them. ;)


But, I still like you loads better than Archaeolept, who likes to lash out at people who try to give encouragement.

Oh and BTW Arch, be happy there are forum rules that I am inclined to follow, even if you like to dance around them with your infantile allusions, "at least I'm not a retard". Very smooth. :re:

[archaeolept]

Jim.

by singling out that quote from chris, which was probably just sloppiness on his part, and making it your post, you imputed something to me that was false and slanderous. You could have verified your facts, but did not, and instead tried to drag my name in the mud. Exactly how that constituted "giving encouragement" is clearly beyond my powers of comprehension.

And now you whine.

But, I still like you loads better than Archaeoleptthe gods be praised.

[JimMorrison]

Jim.

by singling out that quote from chris, which was probably just sloppiness on his part, and making it your post, you imputed something to me that was false and slanderous. You could have verified your facts, but did not, and instead tried to drag my name in the mud.

Drag your name in the mud? Are you just completely insane? That quote clearly said it was made by Chris, and clearly had not been in any way confirmed.

I am still finding it hard to believe that you are so pissed off about such a small comment, made by someone who didn't even know what was going on in your little part of the world. Take a good look at what is going on here, and you'll discover that the only person whining and crying here, is not me. I'm just defending myself from an unreasonable and unwarranted verbal assault.

Seriously, you've been on the internet at least 5 years, I can't believe you've made it this long if you take offense at these things.

[archaeolept]

I'm sure it would break his heart to have the valley all to himself by turn 7. :rolleyes: The rolleyes are a favourite of passive-aggressives everywhere, and it really makes your post. You are implying sarcasm vis a vis an imputed internal state on my part; ie. you are saying that I am the contrary of heart-broken, that I am pleased or exultant to not have any opposition to fight. This is a slur, and I will teach your nation manners. :)

Seriously, you've been on the internet at least 5 years, I can't believe you've made it this long if you take offense at these things.The internet is all about taking offense to things - you haven't noticed?

[Evilhomer]

well maybe Jim's comment can be read in that way, but aren't your reaction slightly over the top here archaeo ?

[archaeolept]

nope :)

if he wants to impute my inner mental states, and implicitly whine about how "easy" i've got it, I'll feel free to respond, thank you very much.

next time, perhaps he will consider the implications of what he says. Conceivably he will actually learn something, possibly, eventually.

[Ballbarian]

...and from the smoke filled sky rumbles a thunderous voice:
"Cast not your stones lest the moderators be summoned!"

Thanks! :)

[JimMorrison]

I hardly feel responsible for you completely misconstruing an innocent statement, Arch.

On the other hand, I suppose I'd be a bit raw if I had a Dracolich land on my head on turn 3, especially if it proceeded to not quite manage to kill me.

All things considered though, I think your estimation of your position is overly pessimistic (but not by any means EASY).

But let's not argue. :hide:

[archaeolept]

I believe the appearance of Balbarian was a not so subtle hint to drop it, jim.

because you claiming things only makes me want to respond to them.

for instance, where did I make an "estimation of my position", let alone one that is "overly pessimistic?" Mictlan is 6 turns behind the curve, but should be able to catch up in a year or so, if all goes well. And, frankly, your estimation of my situation is not worth a hill of beans.

[JimMorrison]

Wow.

You really are something Archae.

:down:

[KissBlade]

Second.. I would never *scam out* the position. I never have. I would tell (whomever expressed interest) the actual facts.

I think most people would agree the position is irretreviably broken.


Substitute wanted for Madness.
Early part of the game. You have 6 territories: Your nearest neighbor has 1. You have leads in research, dominion, army size.

You are playing Jotunheim. Are you giant enough?

Classic.


Enough said. That and the Gath story only indicates that yes, my suspicions about your style of play has weight. And I love the fact that you conveniently have server problems the moment your turns turn things against you when previously and now, you could've easily posted for a postponement due to server issues.

[archaeolept]

Wow.

You really are something Archae.

:down:Likewise, I'm sure.

[Wokeye]

You AI bots are so funny, so lifelike. LOL

[archaeolept]

^^ ;p

_________

looking back, I was perhaps a bit harsh in the degree to which I jumped on Jim for his comment, though my analysis was correct. please replace the retard imputation with something milder :)

[Ballbarian]

Ok. Subtle hints don't seem to be working.
Consider this a warning.

Just a reminder of the board rules:

User Fighting
If you post in this forum, we expect you to contribute positively to a conversation. If you disagree with someone, great, explain your point of view, have an open discussion. Please do not disparage the other person. Personal attacks are unacceptable. They just lower the brow of all involved. If you don't like someone, talk about it on ICQ, MSN, AIM, YIM, your journal, or your blogger, but not here. People who bait or bash members or mods may be banned without notice. Flaming, humiliating, ridiculing, or belittling other members will not be tolerated. This includes blatant disrespect of others whether it is through negative language or general attitude. We see no difference between straight out calling someone stupid and using creative language and attitude to imply that person is stupid. Continuing to harass in any form another poster via the board, email, or instant message after being informed that communication is no longer desired is also prohibited. Trolling is prohibited. Trolling is whenever someone is clearly, deliberately posting in a manner for the purpose of angering and/or insulting the other participants of the board. Trolling could be directed towards one user or a group of users. Trolling DOES NOT encourage further discussion, it only encourages personal attacks (if left unchecked) and will not be tolerated. If you get out of hand you will be warned, if the negative behavior continues you may be banned. Nobody likes it when this happens, so play nice! What actually constitutes out of hand or negative behavior is at the discretion of the staff.


I have had several complaints tonight about this thread. Please don't ruin it for the other players by continuing this here.

[Evilhomer]

Zeldor can you set jotunheim to AI? Obviously after multiple stals the situation has gone from bad to worse, so I doubt you will find a sub. Also an AI is better than a human player not playing (so it will give archae something to play with)

[Zeldor]

Nah, I can't. There is no option to do it. That is I will have to ask someone on IRC to do it. I don't want to risk the small chance of cdkey conflict. And I shouldn't be looking at his turn file anyway.

P.S. And I think that chris is able to set nation to AI himself. I will ask someone to do it if he does not that turn.

[JimMorrison]

Nah, I can't. There is no option to do it. That is I will have to ask someone on IRC to do it. I don't want to risk the small chance of cdkey conflict. And I shouldn't be looking at his turn file anyway.

P.S. And I think that chris is able to set nation to AI himself. I will ask someone to do it if he does not that turn.

I'll do it if you want. MadFrancis' computer was down for most of a week just after Preponderance started, and we crossed our fingers and had him submit from this machine. He did 3-4 turns I think before his comp was back in action, and we had no problems whatsoever.

[archaeolept]

JimMorrision is a player in the game - he should not be given access to the turn. He will know my location, at the very least.

Chris has staled twice in a row - i'm fine w/ that being the standard.

[Zeldor]

We are talking about Madness :) You should either play [until you win/lose/find a sub] or set nation to AI. I'd prefer first option, but AI is better than staling for sure.

I don't want to take part in that small flame war we had here, but maybe you should try playing in less games, but sticking longer in them, even if things go wrong :) It surely improves relations with other players and helps with diplomacy later.

P.S. Huh, I was sure it was chris writing it, not Jim :P

[JimMorrison]

Oh right, best I do not know which valley to send cruise missiles to.

I'll find you later. <3

[Evilhomer]

Ah, the pure love in this thread.....

[archaeolept]

ok, i'm not completely sure yet, but I think the scales for Jotunheim are:

Turmoil 3 Sloth 3 Cold 3 Death 3 luck 2 Drain 2

might be off by one somewhere

[Redeyes]

I'm out, my double-bless valley mate and a less than stellar income graph even while patrolling every turn killed me.
Order 3, misfortune 2? Potential to be very lethal very early.

On the other hand, I'll gladly set Jotunheim to AI if you don't have it covered ;)

[Zeldor]

I think I got a "volunteer" to do it :)

I'm still holding my position against elephant rush.

[KissBlade]

I'm out, my double-bless valley mate and a less than stellar income graph even while patrolling every turn killed me.
Order 3, misfortune 2? Potential to be very lethal very early.

On the other hand, I'll gladly set Jotunheim to AI if you don't have it covered ;)

Should've tried Black Halberds! (ghoul guardian)

[Redeyes]

Perhaps if I had massed them ahead of time but I lacked a good leader for them and I didn't want to expose myself to banishment.

When it got down it, I just had far too few guys and he had too many ;)

[Dragar]

Is this game definitely set to CBM? Sounds stupid but this turn I tried to cast a spell that should cost 1 gem in CBM and it cost me 5. It is just costing the 1 in another CBM game.. decent hole in my early game strat at 5 gem cost :(

[Alpine Joe]

I am discovering that xbows>Dai Bakemono. Any suggestions?

[Evilhomer]

Dagar wrote: Is this game definitely set to CBM? Sounds stupid but this turn I tried to cast a spell that should cost 1 gem in CBM and it cost me 5. It is just costing the 1 in another CBM game.. decent hole in my early game strat at 5 gem cost


Check option ---> view active mods, this will tell you which mods are enabled.

[archaeolept]

what is the spell, dragar? perhaps it was intentionally or unintentionally changed back (?) to 5 in the latest CB. This game is using 1.4 - earlier games you are in would likely be using 1.3.

[Dragar]

Summon spectral infantry - have cast it in Solar, which is 1.3. I've posted in the CBM 1.41 thread, have a feeling it was accidentally (or intentionally but not announced) set back to vanilla value :( :(

I'm afg so can't check the active mod

[archaeolept]

yeah, that must be a bug. on the plus side, they are pretty bad ;)

[Dragar]

They are pretty decent at 5 for 1, and suit my strategy pretty well for the early days. They are awful at 5 for 5... friggin waste of research :(

[archaeolept]

hey, i've only got 4 rp so far... i can only dream of wasting research ;p

edit: i just started a little test game in CB... the spell cost me 1 d to cast.

this game uses a special version to fix the LA agarthan bug... version 1.41b. spectral infantry should not have been changed... but the spell cast at the correct cost in my 1.4 test game.

[Dragar]

?? do you mind checking what version of CBM we're running for me?

[DonCorazon]

1.41b

[archaeolept]

i just ran another test game, this time using the exact same mods this game is using...

1.3: 5 gems for 5
1.4: 1 gem for 5
1.41b: 5 gems for 5

so 1.41b, perhaps also 1.41 which i didn't test, undid the 1.4 change to the price

[Dragar]

1.41b isn't an official cbm is it, its what someone modified for this game? (wish the forum search worked better)

Edit: yep, on page 16 of this thread, it's Zeldor's fix of 1.41
Edit2: Probably worth checking if anything else has been affected? Hopefully not all spells are reset?

[Zeldor]

Check official 1.41. There should be just very minor fixes. But I doubt QM intentionally increased prices of things like that.

1.41b has only 1 line change, for blinlords. Nothing else.

[Redeyes]

As long as I have been around, Summon Spectral Infantry (the EA&MA ritual) has been 1for 5 in the CBM.
Summon Abysian Ancestors in the LA has at the same time always been 5 for 5,

[archaeolept]

yeah that seems to be it... I don't know why there are two separate spells when they seem to be the same thing, no?

[Dragar]

different ritual with same name for different eras? weird, and suckful

would explain things though, Solar is EA..

[KissBlade]

I am discovering that xbows>Dai Bakemono. Any suggestions?

bake archers, shadow blast, fireball, shadow bolts, blade wind ...

[JimMorrison]

...bake archers...

Roll in powdered sugar, serve with caramelized apples?

[Jazzepi]

...bake archers...

Roll in powdered sugar, serve with caramelized apples?

The blood of LA Man ;.;

Jazzepi

[Zeldor]

I got hit with the "wrong turn number" llamaserver bug now. I have temporarily turned off quickhost and postponed the game by 12h, so llamabeast can take a look. If anyone has similar problems, just let me know via PM, so I can get things sorted out.

I think it's what chrispedersen reported too earlier. Did it happen in any other game for anyone before?

[llamabeast]

So, I don't really understand this. The game is on turn 11. Is the turn you're taking turn 11 Zeldor? What does the error message say? (It should say something like "The game is on turn 11 but you've sent in a file for turn 10).

I have a little script that tells me when game turn numbers are out of sync, but in this case it doesn't seem to think there's a problem so it must be a slightly unusual situation.

[llamabeast]

Er, so I took your turn for you Zeldor, and it worked just fine. Not sure what to make of that.

I recommend you retake it in any case, as I just hit "End turn".

[Zeldor]

It looks like I found the problem - .trn files I tried to use from llamaserver were probably corrupted. While they were for turn 11, they showed up as turn 10 in game. I downloaded a .trn file again and it showed up as turn11, I remade it and it got accepted. Hmm... it may be rather some dominions bug, not llamaserver.

[Zeldor]

We have 2 semifinalists already.

LA Mictlan defeated LA Ulm.
LA Bogarus defeated MA Man [he is AI].

We have few other nations on the way out too.

[Quitti]

LA Pangaea will probably beat me (LA Agartha) sooner than later. Darn dual-shield Gorgon ;)

[DonCorazon]

We have 2 semifinalists already.

LA Mictlan defeated LA Ulm.
LA Bogarus defeated MA Man [he is AI].

We have few other nations on the way out too.

Whoever said Bogarus wasn't an awesome rusher nation! :)

[KissBlade]

A hard fought victory. Hats off to you sir Jazzepi! =) And yes, that extra fort would've made a huge diff! The minstrels shall sing of this war throughout the land. (AFter I root them out and put them in Russian prison for a bit but hey)

[Jazzepi]

A hard fought victory. Hats off to you sir Jazzepi! =) And yes, that extra fort would've made a huge diff! The minstrels shall sing of this war throughout the land. (AFter I root them out and put them in Russian prison for a bit but hey)

*angry fist shake*

I guess I can't really feel that bad. My plan was to make a ridiculous amount of minstrels, and capital-unrest-rush whomever my neighbor was. I wasn't really planning on getting a dragon dropped on my capital that early. I also had unrest events in my capital on turn 2, and 3, meaning I couldn't capitalize on the mercenaries!

Good luck in the game.

Also, you have ballz of steel for dropping your dragon into my capital like that. I did that once with a wyrm, and he just got his proverbial butt kicked. Maybe dragons are considered more durable than I thought?
Jazzepi

[KissBlade]

To be honest, I completely misread your scales. I saw early heat scales from opposing dominions and no real incursions with my scouts. As a result, I predicted that you were Bandar (crappy PD, no real defense against a dragon, which was awed + dual pathed to give some extra defense + quickness if need be save blessed sacreds which your scales looked too high to do) and made the air drop from there. You might also find it amusing that I jacked up the pd on a bunch of provinces because I was anticipating an atavi archer stealth raid. Imagine my surprise when I saw blessed wardens instead! (ouch!! I was pretty scared of those =) ) Thankfully my research priority was lightning bolt and regeneration so it was just a matter of stalling/harrassing till my mages + chaff were in place.