Noobs vs. Vets, Game Over, Noobs are Victorious! Hail Noobs!

[Septimius Severus]

I've tried to contact Jachra, possibly known as Jachranit, as a sub for me. Please set Jomon's turn-email to jachranit@gmail.com - that should clear things up. I've also taken steps to recover my harddrive, best case tuesday, worst case next week saturday, I hope.

Will do.

[Ironhawk]

GUYS - hold on a second. There are two other solutions here which seem to be getting completely ignored!

First and foremost, as llamabeast points out, the CD-key is readily available to Darloth if he just looks in the key file of his install. Can't he just do that? Or like call someone who has access to his original install or whatever?

[rdonj]

It's my understanding that he can't even get his computer to boot up, so there's not much chance to be able to look for the key file.

[Ironhawk]

Alas! I look forward to beating on Jomon's replacement player ;)

[Giant Moth]

The replacement player is in, all is well!

[Septimius Severus]

Coming soon to a Dominions server near you:

In Noobs vs Vets II: Die, Vets, Die!, an army of noobs takes on

a handful of expert veterans in a leisurely paced large map

early age game characterized by rapid expansion and magics most

terrifying and wonderful. Who will prevail? :confused::eek:

[GrudgeBringer]

RDONJ, asked If I would sub if you needed it.

I am no Baalz and would be on the Noob side.

If it would get to the late middle or end game and turns where long and I didn't know the nation I might hurt more than help, but we will see what happens.

GrudgeBringer:up:

[Lingchih]

Coming soon to a Dominions server near you:

In Noobs vs Vets II: Die, Vets, Die!, an army of noobs takes on

a handful of expert veterans in a leisurely paced large map

early age game characterized by rapid expansion and magics most

terrifying and wonderful. Who will prevail? :confused::eek:

Aren't you being a bit presumtuous starting a second game of this kind? It's turn 4 after all, and we haven't even started beating on each other yet.

[Lavaere]

Yeah a little early to start another one, but when it is I'll certainly be joining

[Septimius Severus]

RDONJ, asked If I would sub if you needed it.

I am no Baalz and would be on the Noob side.

If it would get to the late middle or end game and turns where long and I didn't know the nation I might hurt more than help, but we will see what happens.

GrudgeBringer:up:

Great, we can use all the alternates we can get.

[Septimius Severus]

Aren't you being a bit presumtuous starting a second game of this kind? It's turn 4 after all, and we haven't even started beating on each other yet.


I've no intention of starting it till we are finished with this one. That is why I say, its "A preview of things to come..."

I thinking possibly an indie strength of say 2 and easy research (ala QM's) suggestion.

[Lingchih]

Ahh, my Gorgon. Such a pretty thing (as long as you only look at her in a mirror). Can anyone defeat her?

[Lavaere]

Does anyone have a really shiny shield for the Gorgon to look into. Or was Medusa the only one of the sisters with Stone Gaze

[Ironhawk]

I heard we had some action with Ryleh this turn. The wars have begun!

[rdonj]

Ahh, my Gorgon. Such a pretty thing (as long as you only look at her in a mirror). Can anyone defeat her?

I don't know, I'm just glad I don't have to :D Btw does anyone know if eyeless creatures can attack a gorgon without being turned to stone? Not that it would likely help, agartha is the only one with eyeless recruitables.

[LumenPlacidum]

Mindless and berserk units are good for that. Isn't it a morale check or be petrified? Plus then you'll probably have awe, which is another morale check, and the primary means of actually winning is fear, which is more morale. The gorgon will likely have weapons intended to deal with the small number of things with the morale needed to withstand the mental assault.

[rdonj]

No, it's a check against magic resistance. Morale won't do anything to save you from petrification.

[Lingchih]

Bwaahaahaa! There is nothing you can do to save yourselves from the Gorgon!

[rdonj]

Would begging and pleading for our lives work? No? Well, there goes my plan.

[Lingchih]

No, begging and pleading won't help. Large chests of money and gems sent to Pangaea might keep her at bay though.

[rdonj]

Actually my real plan is to leave her alone and let other people deal with her. So I'm covered. Maybe I'll try to help other people figure out ways to kill it though.

[Ironhawk]

Whats this about large chests?

[BigandScary]

I'm a fan of large chests. Send me some big chests.

[Ironhawk]

I actually favor smaller chests. However feel free to send me gold anyway

[Lingchih]

Have at you, then. Slimy noobs. 3 on 1 eh? Well, we'll see how that goes for you.

[rdonj]

I see faith in my strategy to slay the gorgon was not entirely misplaced :D

Unfortunately the way teams are placed doesn't really allow us to come at you with much more than equal numbers, so you should be quite happy. And look at the way you're all picking on poor ulm over there all by his lonesome. Clearly we aren't the only team employing unsporting stratagems....

[Lingchih]

Oh, the Gorgon is fine. You will see her again. In full battle gear.

You guys routed a Gorgon with a rawhide shield and nothing else. That will not be the Gorgon you run into next time.

[rdonj]

It's just too bad she got off so lightly. And of course she has recuperation, so that never healing wound has probably already healed :P

[Lingchih]

Never healing wound? Oh, that. Yeah, she's all better now. Thanks for asking though. :)

[Lavaere]

Personally I think the Gorgon should take a flying leap into a very deep hole

[Ironhawk]

Did you all push poor Ulm into that foolhardy attack? He's lucky he didnt lose his nice little thug, much less his army.

Not that he isnt about to lose that anyway... :evil:

Thanks for the Archers in White, btw!

[rdonj]

We told ulm to defend his capitol, he decided to try to cut off escape routes for the abysian army in case he won. It wasn't such a bad idea but unfortunately that didn't work out so well for him. That nice little thug is a vampire though, I never heard for sure whether it was immortal, but I was under the impression.

[LumenPlacidum]

I'm just glad my nice little thug is out of my capital what with the peasants taking up arms everywhere he walks. I was *amazed* to see him survive toe to toe against the gorgon. I already consider this game a victory! :p Whether I get crushed under the advance of the enemies or politely abdicate for my better-equipped allies to step up to the front, I'll have done good for my team in delaying, distracting, and costing resources.

Oh and yeah, I just wanted the Archers in White to take out that barbarian province. Bloody crossbows don't reload fast enough. Keep 'em.

Question, when someone's armor is broken and it says that it has to be repaired by spare resources in a friendly province, how does that work? Does that unit have to stay for a turn in that province? Is it an order?

[Lingchih]

You need to be in a prov with a lab, I think. Could be wrong. I don't encounter it much.

Hold on, now that I think about it, for normal armor, etc, I think you just need to be in a prov with extra resources.

Hmm. Not sure why I am helping the enemy. Just bored, I guess.

[Lingchih]

Who jacked this up? Wednesday host? Whtat's up with that?

[Septimius Severus]

Who jacked this up? Wednesday host? Whtat's up with that?

We're moving to a 48 hour host as indicated on the main post.

[Ironhawk]

Aw, man. Just when the game was getting interesting too!

[Giant Moth]

48 at turn 10? Man, nobody can be that slow this early :(

[Lingchih]

Heh. It takes me like 5 minutes to do my turn.

[Septimius Severus]

48 at turn 10? Man, nobody can be that slow this early :(

This should not come as a surpise, especially if you've kept up with the thread since its inception.

It's not a question of turn completion time, as I've already stated. I was originally gonna start at 48 hours! :D

[Ironhawk]

Can we make it not 48 hours? These turns really are pretty basic. I mean even with team coordination I'm just sitting on my hands here. Our plans are all set we just need a turn so there's something new to discuss.

[BigandScary]

We could always discuss the effects of a changing world on the members of its youth. Or Caeser's Gallic Campaigns. Or maybe celebrities. We can figure out 24 hours worth of conversation, but only once. I'm not sure what to do next turn.

[Lingchih]

We could discuss the utter annihilation Midgard will face when he tries to take my cap :)

[Septimius Severus]

Can we make it not 48 hours? These turns really are pretty basic. I mean even with team coordination I'm just sitting on my hands here. Our plans are all set we just need a turn so there's something new to discuss.

I couldn't accomodate you without risking staling myself, sorry, I know some of you are chomping at the bit, but you'll live. Concentrate on getting your turn in and trust in quickhost to take care of the rest.

[BigandScary]

But it never does. There's always atleast one guy who waits until the last minute or stales. Always. Its like a syndrome. 48-hour syndrome.

[rdonj]

Our team needs a lot more organizational effort than you guys probably think should be necessary. I get my turns done quickly too, but being sick right now I'm thankful for the extra time I can stay away from the computer while feeling terrible and come back later to help with the organization.

[Ironhawk]

But it never does. There's always atleast one guy who waits until the last minute or stales. Always. Its like a syndrome. 48-hour syndrome.

Yeah this is true. Someone always waits till the last minute, either intentionally or unintentionally. Tho in this case I think its out of PURE FEAR!!

[BigandScary]

Aye, crippling, bowel loosening terror.

[Lingchih]

Aye, crippling, bowel loosening terror.

I really don't like to think of bowel loosening terror. Paints kind of an ugly picture.

That said, Pan is in no terror at all. The Gorgon waits and watches, as Midgard tears through our lands. Until the time comes when she says, "Attack".

[Septimius Severus]

Aye, crippling, bowel loosening terror.

Such confidence. I hope it is well founded!:p

A confident vet, vets should be confident.
Hardened by battle, wisened with age and experience. And in my planned sequel, they'll have their chance to demonstrate as much as they'll be outnumbered 3 to 1.

[rdonj]

I don't know... 3 to 1 may be a bit more than is necessary. I mean, we're actually more or less holding our own in a pretty much 1 to 1 ratio at the moment. If ulm hadn't had so much trouble expanding he might not even be in danger of imminent death right now. It would take a pretty big map to justify the 3v1 I think.

[Lavaere]

I liked the idea before of vets going solo, while noobs pairs of into teams or such.

[Ironhawk]

Poor ulm. You guys all picked on him, didnt you? Merciless noobs!! ;)

[rdonj]

Nah, mictlan is who we're picking on. Mictlan who lost 20+ jaguars and numerous support units to just some pd in a battle over one of my provinces.

[darloth]

But it never does. There's always atleast one guy who waits until the last minute or stales. Always. Its like a syndrome. 48-hour syndrome.

Currently this guy is me, but I'm quite glad of the long timer as I've just been so very tired lately, and then there's the whole rebuilding a computer thing. I'm going to try and get two turns done now though, so sorry for the delay.

[Evilhomer]

Going away on friday, will be back on monday.

[Ironhawk]

Ulm, on the scale of luck that you just had, that probably ranks about a 12 on a scale from 0-10.

:re:

[rdonj]

Oh, do tell on. Ulm hasn't said a thing yet. And I still haven't checked my turn yet. And won't be able to for a while longer, I need to shut my computer down for a storm. But do tell! Or ulm, you can tell also.

[Ironhawk]

So in the battle for his capital, my 150hp pretender received TWO afflictions from glancing (5-8dam) arrow hits in the first two turns. Which is ridiculously lucky on its own. But then more than that he got Crippled and Chest Wound so he could neither reach the front lines to turn the battle in my favor, nor flee the battle once my men routed. Off the scale luck!

[Septimius Severus]

I don't know... 3 to 1 may be a bit more than is necessary. I mean, we're actually more or less holding our own in a pretty much 1 to 1 ratio at the moment. If ulm hadn't had so much trouble expanding he might not even be in danger of imminent death right now. It would take a pretty big map to justify the 3v1 I think.

The consensus seems to have been that the vets would gain the upper hand in the mid to late game due to their ability to create thugs or SC's and their familiarity with the magic system, maps, etc. I'm thinking of 3:1 to balance this, it will be a larger map and a longer playing game (as you know I don't care for this cramped stuff).

I'll likely give them first choice of nations.

Perhaps an indie strength of 3, though I'll need to balance this to ensure timing.

Edit: But we'll have to see how the current game plays out.

[Lingchih]

The Gorgon has yet to take the field. We shall soon see though, what the Noobs can do against the Gorgon. (That first fight didn't count. She only had a rawhide shield for equipment).

[Septimius Severus]

But it never does. There's always atleast one guy who waits until the last minute or stales. Always. Its like a syndrome. 48-hour syndrome.

I'm aware of the psychology involved (if people know they have the extra time they'll take it), I'm also aware that there are instances when people really do need extra time because they've got other priorities. Frankly, doesn't matter much to me, I've got an attention span longer than 48 hours and I'm not in any rush.

[Lingchih]

Yeah, game is at a good pace. Let's let it ride. I just don't want to see 72 hour too soon.

[rdonj]

I don't know... 3 to 1 may be a bit more than is necessary. I mean, we're actually more or less holding our own in a pretty much 1 to 1 ratio at the moment. If ulm hadn't had so much trouble expanding he might not even be in danger of imminent death right now. It would take a pretty big map to justify the 3v1 I think.

The consensus seems to have been that the vets would gain the upper hand in the mid to late game due to their ability to create thugs or SC's and their familiarity with the magic system, maps, etc. I'm thinking of 3:1 to balance this, it will be a larger map and a longer playing game (as you know I don't care for this cramped stuff).

I'll likely give them first choice of nations.

Perhaps an indie strength of 3, though I'll need to balance this to ensure timing.

Edit: But we'll have to see how the current game plays out.

Imo it's not the thugs and SCs that are the big advantage the vets have over noobs, it's their overall knowledge of how to use spells and summons effectively, and knowing how to use their resources most efficiently. Actually thugs are probably harder for a noob to make than an SC, since they are supposed to be both cheap and effective as opposed to just effective. The vets are also probably better at dealing with early SCs, which is something I was worried about for this game with the choice to make many SC pretenders being an obvious one for them, but so far it hasn't been going too badly.

I think a map that allowed a proper 2 to 1 advantage for the noobs would be just fine, 3 to 1 and you start running out of room to maneuver and you may not be able to come at them all at once. Then again maybe that would work, but I still think it might be a little too much.


So in the battle for his capital, my 150hp pretender received TWO afflictions from glancing (5-8dam) arrow hits in the first two turns. Which is ridiculously lucky on its own. But then more than that he got Crippled and Chest Wound so he could neither reach the front lines to turn the battle in my favor, nor flee the battle once my men routed. Off the scale luck!

Wow, that is pretty rough. Ulm must have the luck of the dominions gods on his side to be pulling off a crazy stunt like that.

[Ironhawk]

The consensus seems to have been that the vets would gain the upper hand in the mid to late game due to their ability to create thugs or SC's and their familiarity with the magic system, maps, etc. I'm thinking of 3:1 to balance this, it will be a larger map and a longer playing game (as you know I don't care for this cramped stuff).

I'll likely give them first choice of nations.

Perhaps an indie strength of 3, though I'll need to balance this to ensure timing.

Edit: But we'll have to see how the current game plays out.

3:1 is just too much. Possibly if all the noobs were rank amateurs - but as we can see from this game that is clearly not the case.

[archaeolept]

So in the battle for his capital, my 150hp pretender received TWO afflictions from glancing (5-8dam) arrow hits in the first two turns. Which is ridiculously lucky on its own. But then more than that he got Crippled and Chest Wound so he could neither reach the front lines to turn the battle in my favor, nor flee the battle once my men routed. Off the scale luck!i'm pretty sure affliction chance is determined by the nominal hp value, which is determined by the current province dominion; ie., if your pretender has 100 base hp, and the enemy dom is at least 4, he'll only have a nominal max hp of 20... so a 5-8 damage hit will yield a really good chance of an affliction.

also, arrows tend to be more likely to give chest wounds.

being crippled was bad luck :p

[Lingchih]

3:1 is indeed too much. As we have seen in this game, perhaps 2:1 is too much. Many noobs pick up the MP game very quickly, and when it is 2:1, with all the Noobs surrounding the Vets and able to attack on multiple fronts, well, it just becomes a quick duel, with all the Vets mid and late game knowledge thrown out the window.

That said, I certainly don't think this game is anywhere near over. A few of the Vets are still strong, and though I am a bit province poor at the moment, the Gorgon will soon make up for that.

[Septimius Severus]

Imo it's not the thugs and SCs that are the big advantage the vets have over noobs, it's their overall knowledge of how to use spells and summons effectively, and knowing how to use their resources most efficiently.

Quite correct, the vets advantage comes from their in-depth knowledge of every facet of gameplay including the strengths and weaknesses of every available unit.


I think a map that allowed a proper 2 to 1 advantage for the noobs would be just fine, 3 to 1 and you start running out of room to maneuver and you may not be able to come at them all at once. Then again maybe that would work, but I still think it might be a little too much.

The actual number of players would not be much more than at present. But as I say, we'll have to see.

[Septimius Severus]

3:1 is just too much. Possibly if all the noobs were rank amateurs - but as we can see from this game that is clearly not the case.

Admitedly, some of our noobs are greener than others, but I did give the vet team the opportunity to review and/or reject any noob team member whom they felt to be a ringer. They will always have this right.

[LumenPlacidum]

Aww, I get NO credit. Yeah, it was bad luck that provided that specific affliction. Besides, I cursed you. Doesn't that make afflictions more likely? However, I am proud of the fact that I've now survived battles with two enemy pretenders and fended off a serious attack against my capital. BTW, you blinded my vampire! How rude...

Also, I am definitely a rank amateur. It's probably obvious.

[Septimius Severus]

3:1 is indeed too much. As we have seen in this game, perhaps 2:1 is too much. Many noobs pick up the MP game very quickly, and when it is 2:1, with all the Noobs surrounding the Vets and able to attack on multiple fronts, well, it just becomes a quick duel, with all the Vets mid and late game knowledge thrown out the window.

I agonized a great deal over placement to be fair to both sides, as there were two continents, the noobs were placed on the larger one and the vets on the smaller one, I wouldn't say that anyone was "surrounding" anyone else.

I've always been in favor of larger maps with delayed hostilities as I detest the rush mentality. If the vets feel that they won't be able to retain the advantage in a longer playing game with a majority of green noobs, or feel 3:1 is too much we certainly won't do it.

[Septimius Severus]

Aww, I get NO credit. Yeah, it was bad luck that provided that specific affliction. Besides, I cursed you. Doesn't that make afflictions more likely? However, I am proud of the fact that I've now survived battles with two enemy pretenders and fended off a serious attack against my capital. BTW, you blinded my vampire! How rude...

Also, I am definitely a rank amateur. It's probably obvious.

You certainly deserve the credit. And beleive it or not, your probably more experienced than I am. :)

[rdonj]

Given that you cursed him, lumen, I would say that probably had everything in the world to do with it.

We do have a fair number of "relatively experienced noobs" on the team. I think on the frontline it's jomon, ulm, and gath who are the least experienced. Most of the really inexperienced players are on the inside though, with the exception of utgard who has been fairly quiet on our little forum and we have absolutely no idea what he's up to :P Technically I'm supposed to be one of the more experienced noobs on the team but I'm not terribly happy with my performance on the field so far, having one of the lower province counts and getting my army slaughtered by the first triple bless jaguar army I meet, feh. It's just a good thing my pd has so many archers.

It would have been more in spirit with the idea of the game to have more completely green noobs, I'm not sure how many of them are around at the moment though, and would not be too intimidated to go up against a team of some of the better players.

[Lavaere]

Maybe if I had gone Ulm, Jomon, Ulm or someone I'm more use to like Ulm. And exspecially not someone never used before like Bogarus. But honestly first MP game and I don't think I've ever played a SP game longer then 2 years. I wonder if that makes me a nice refreshing Lime Green.
I kinda get distracted easily, quit the game and then start up some other game I have on the comp. Rinse and Repeat.

I'm actually hoping that playing these games, with a turn will keep me playing them longer.

[pyg]

It looks like I'm doing fairly well in the game but this is mostly due to the fantastic starting position I had. I don't think this map is very balanced.

This is my third MP game and I'm nearly eliminated from my first two. Before starting MP games I had only played EA nations in SP. I haven't yet played a game past year four. I really am a newbie, but that doesn't mean I'm not a quick study.

[Septimius Severus]

I could always use forum ranking, # of posts, join date, etc as a general guide to noobishness in the future (most vets have over 2,000 posts to their name), but of course this doesn't really say anything other than how many messages they've posted. :)

This in combination with the veto power of the vets (provided they use it) should ensure we get what we're looking for.

[Lavaere]

Only problem with being a quick learner for games, is that you get bored of them even quicker. I remember High School playing chess, after a while I got so bored I would just play suicide chess against others.
Not until I learnt to play Go did I start playing properly. But then there were only a couple people who could play.

[Septimius Severus]

I think I may go to a 42 hour turn interval @ turn 10 to accomodate the more action oriented players in this game and any future games.

Some stats:

Provinces:

Noobs = 76 , Vets = 21, Indies = 28

Income:

Noobs = 9043, Vets = 1901

The noobs currently hold almost 4 times as many provinces and have more than four times the income of the vets. Not necessarily surprising.

Research:

Noobs = 3193, Vets = 1537.

Dominion:

Noobs = 999, Vets = 541.

Vets are doing a bit better in terms of research and dominion given their team size as compared to provinces and income.

Army Size:

Noobs = 3860, Vets = 1481.

No surpise here either, given the 2:1 ratio, though it is slanted in favor of the noobs.

[pyg]

Only problem with being a quick learner for games, is that you get bored of them even quicker. I remember High School playing chess, after a while I got so bored I would just play suicide chess against others.
Not until I learnt to play Go did I start playing properly. But then there were only a couple people who could play.

Oh yeah!

Go is also a beautiful game. So simple and complex at the same time. Just play 9-dan against the noobs and they often have a chance to learn and do well in the same game.

It's a real credit to Dominions 3 that it has held my attention nearly twice as long as any other game [of my adult life] so far, trailed distantly by lesh2's linux port of Jagged Alliance 2-1.13, which is a completely different kind of game but also has a fair amount of modding possibilities.

[Ironhawk]

Aww, I get NO credit. Yeah, it was bad luck that provided that specific affliction. Besides, I cursed you.

I thought this was the case but you actually didnt curse my pretender till *after* he took the afflictions. I do give you some credit for good orders, but not for this :) It really was just insanely lucky.

[Lingchih]

The Gorgon has come forth, and of course in one turn taken the lead in the Hall of Fame. All should fear the Gorgon. Muhahahaha.

[Lavaere]

Gorgons, I wonder I could summon Devils to defeat such a thing. Anything you can suggest for decapitation your Gorgon.

[Septimius Severus]

Vets: I didn't institute a delay on behalf of Evil Homer as his message indicated "Going away on friday, will be back on monday." and the turn did not host till around 20:50 GMT Monday, so I assumed he'd be back in time, though I see now Mictlan staled last turn. In the absence of an explicit PM or request for delay or otherwise, I'll assume we'll press on, unless I hear an objection from the vet team.

[Lingchih]

Yeah, no biggee SS, not much harm done. Now that the Gorgon is loose, not much harm can be done.

[Ironhawk]

LOL! I knew you all were picking on Ulm - even tho you denied it. Midgard just wiped out Ulm's whole army. Watching that fiasco almost pays me back for losing my pretender :) I consider it poetic justice for you all putting all your eggs in Midgard's basket.

[rdonj]

Actually the eggs are being passed around pretty liberally :)

[Ironhawk]

And look what it got you!

[rdonj]

Actually neither ulm nor midgard have received very many eggs. However, you do have a point. Many eggs were broken last turn and it made a pretty big mess. As a result of this we are looking into steps to mitigate the loss to overall omelette production.

[Lingchih]

Hah, The Gorgon sees a Wyrm. What a nice statue the Wyrm would nake.

[Septimius Severus]

Avoid staling if at all possible.

Thanks everyone.

[Ironhawk]

Heh - someone is always going to stale Septimius.

How bout some props for me tho, for all those skin shifters I massacred in toe to toe combat?

[Septimius Severus]

Heh - someone is always going to stale Septimius.

Quite true, the more people involved the greater the chance, it doesn't bother me later in the game as much as it does early on though. :)

[Lingchih]

Delicious. The soon to be Wyrm statue comes within reach. We shall put it right in front of the main gate to our citadel.

Damn. Takes 100 monkeys to move the thing though.

[rdonj]

Meh, skinshifters are as numerous as the needles on a pine tree. You can tear down as many as you like, but all you'll be left with is a giant mess to clean up.

Also, it appears that the vampiress might have met her match :shock:.

[Septimius Severus]

Also, it appears that the vampiress might have met her match :shock:.

If only she'd stay dead.

[Septimius Severus]

I've decided to leave the hosting interval at 48 hours for now.

Contemplating either one of two hosting schedules for any future games:

1st 10 @ 36 hours, 42 hours @ 20, 72 @ 40 or 50.

or turn 1 @ 30 hours, turn 10 @ 36, etc, etc, 6 hours added every 10 turns.

Trying to find something that will work with everyones schedule, including my own.

[Lingchih]

Yeah, those sound like good hosting schedules. Never go over 72 hour though. People tend to forget about the game.

And oh, no one seems to want to attack the Gorgon. Funny. How can I get her Hall of Fame numbers up if no one attacks her?

[Lavaere]

well I'm sure if the Gorgon attacked a vet, it would greatly rise up. and hopefully die. just a suggestion

[Septimius Severus]

This is a difficult game to set hosting intervals for as opposed to say a FFA game, at any one time there are likely to be players with only 1 or two provinces, cramped space, time requirements for communication, all while attempting to keep people from getting bored and accomodating different schedules.

I also considering a hosting interval curve:

Turn 1 (36) hrs, turn 10 (42) hrs, turn 20 (48) hrs, turn 30 (42) hrs, turn 40 (36) hrs, etc.

This allows for an accumlation (expansion) period. The top of the curve could be indie prov=0.

[Ironhawk]

Yeah anything over 48hrs really kills the momentum of the game. Personally, I think that at the very least, turns 1-10 should be 24hrs MAX. They are such fantastically small and easy turns it doesnt really make sense otherwise.

[darloth]

I don't like 24 hour turns if quickhost is turned on, as turns can then creep forward until it's impossible for some people to actually play them. I'd suggest 30 as a minimum.

[Lavaere]

24 hours is a little short. Exspecially if you get the file at a really inconvenient time.
Almost missed a couple of 24 hour turns in a game because of sleep or just getting home a couple hours or so before turns finish.

[Lingchih]

I don't know. I really like 24 hour for the early turns. As IH said, they are so quick and easy to do. Honestly, if you know you are going to be out of town or somehting in the first couple weeks of a game, you probably should not join it.

[Lingchih]

Seriously, attack the Gorgon. I need to know what she can handle without the best equipment. You noobs have already won the game.

Maybe.

[rdonj]

Maybe we can convince pyg to try after we manage to kill one of you off, as a confidence booster. I'm also hoping some of the others can do a little more than they've been able to so far. Of course, nothing says we're going to get anywhere very quickly :P

[Septimius Severus]

I don't know. I really like 24 hour for the early turns. As IH said, they are so quick and easy to do. Honestly, if you know you are going to be out of town or somehting in the first couple weeks of a game, you probably should not join it.

I wouldn't go below 30 for the first 10 turns of any game I'm admin'ing simply due to my own schedule, depending upon the size of the teams a certain amount of time must be allowed for team communication, that would dictate the minimum regardless of what turn it is.

[pyg]

Seriously, attack the Gorgon. I need to know what she can handle without the best equipment. You noobs have already won the game.

Maybe.

I think Mysteria should come get a taste of Wyrm. To quote someone (QM I think) from IRC, "I maintain a basic strategy of not attacking where I'm not sure I can win."

[Ironhawk]

I don't like 24 hour turns if quickhost is turned on, as turns can then creep forward until it's impossible for some people to actually play them. I'd suggest 30 as a minimum.

Creep is implicit in any timing, you can't hang it on 24hr just cause its not your preference. You will creep just as much - more actually - with a 30hr schedule since it's not a regular "day" division. At least with 24/48hr you know implicitly how much time you have b/w turns.

There is no problem with 24hrs, you just have to not obsess over your turn. Turns 1-10 take 5 mins max. You can't tell me you dont have 5mins to spare. And pretty much everyone has a time of day thats optimal to play turns right? So if you have a 24hr timer, then you are *gauranteed* to fall into that slot once in the cycle.

[rdonj]

I'm happy to say that the incredibly dangerous Mictlan seems to be down for the count. He has a few provinces left, but no temples and his god died this turn... so a dominion-related death appears imminent, even if he CAN hold onto provinces with just a mage and some pd. Three cheers for Aristander, slayer of the colossal head!

Ermor is still a bit weak from the thrashing midgard gave him, and abysia isn't faring very well against the walls of ulm's capitol. So it looks like the major threats to Team Noob are now Pythium and Pangaea, who so far have more or less evaded any real damage. Hopefully we can bring that down to one major problem nation shortly :)

[Lingchih]

So it looks like the major threats to Team Noob are now Pythium and Pangaea, who so far have more or less evaded any real damage. Hopefully we can bring that down to one major problem nation shortly :)

That's because we are good dude!

And the Gorgon would be foolish to move out of Dominion. You'll have to come and get her Pyg.

[LumenPlacidum]

I would just like to point out that my vampire went through almost that entire battle on fire. Also, ouch. That hurt. There's fire everywhere! EVERYWHERE! If it's not fire, then it's burnt, stinking corpses!

I'm just glad that vampire's so bloody scary.

[Ironhawk]

So it looks like the major threats to Team Noob are now Pythium and Pangaea, who so far have more or less evaded any real damage. Hopefully we can bring that down to one major problem nation shortly :)

I was a threat? Heh. Oh I guess when my pretender was alive yeah maybe. Not really since.

Hat's off to Ulm tho for good use of his thug. It was an unadvisable attack on my part but he was well equipped and scripted. He carried the battle for you.

[rdonj]

Trust me you were. For a while there it seemed like you were about to break through ulm and be able to help mictlan by attacking me and gath from behind. Of course, that actually is about when you lost your god, so I suppose perhaps your assessment is somewhat accurate.

[Lingchih]

Good battles, I am sure. But need I point out to you all that nothing matters until the Gorgon enters the fray?

[rdonj]

Indeed, I don't think anyone really has anything that can kill the gorgon yet. Who knew astral pearls could be so hard to find? Anyway, I don't know about now but we'll be sure to give you a battle or two against her if you promise to resign immediately afterward :D

[Lingchih]

Sure. I promise to resign if she gets killed.

Of course, killing a Gorgon is very hard.

[rdonj]

Nooot quite what I was thinking....

Actually I might be able to kill the gorgon, but if I lost I would be set back inordinately much. I'm a bit low on the mages I'd need at the moment due to certain other circumstances.

[pyg]

That's because we are good dude!

And the Gorgon would be foolish to move out of Dominion. You'll have to come and get her Pyg.

Ok meet me in Nicia(93) turn 21 at high noon and lets have a good ol' fashioned shoot out.

[Lingchih]

I'll bring my best six-guns.

[Septimius Severus]

I'll bring my best six-guns.

I too, wish a crack at your harlot from hell.

[Lingchih]

That's because we are good dude!

And the Gorgon would be foolish to move out of Dominion. You'll have to come and get her Pyg.

Ok meet me in Nicia(93) turn 21 at high noon and lets have a good ol' fashioned shoot out.

Ok, the attack came a turn early, but then, just see my sig for explanation. It went quite well, and was quite entertaining. I believe I killed two thirds of your army, and quite a few ended up running to the boats. And, my Gorgon did the right thing and flew when it came down to just her against your terrifying Wyrm.

Wouldn't mind doing it again, but next time I'll bring Black centaurs to take down that Wyrm.

[Lingchih]

Sorry to be long-winded. But I have decided I will not surrender. The last battle convinced me that Pan can hold up to anything you noobs can throw at it. I will continue the game on alone if necessary.

Mysteria is the True God.

[rdonj]

Of course you won't surrender :P

[pyg]

Ok, the attack came a turn early, but then, just see my sig for explanation. It went quite well, and was quite entertaining. I believe I killed two thirds of your army, and quite a few ended up running to the boats. And, my Gorgon did the right thing and flew when it came down to just her against your terrifying Wyrm.

Wouldn't mind doing it again, but next time I'll bring Black centaurs to take down that Wyrm.

I expect deviousness. I learned a fair amount esp. regarding screens for archers as your Black Centaurs really put the hurt on my crossbows. Fire fliers apparently doesn't consider the Gorgon a target. Skinshifters do OK against Dryad Hoplites (crossbows are good). I was disappointed to note that no one hit your Gorgon other than the Wyrm.

Mysteria ran away with just 4hp. Cut that kind of close huh? You sure you want to try again? Looks like Nicia is becoming unfriendly dominion as well...

[Lingchih]

I also noticed that in only two rounds of actual combat with it, my Black Centaurs took your worm down to around 100 hp. That's when the order to retreat came. I'm thinking 10, maybe 15 blackies can take that wyrm down. Well, we'll see.

And yes, I still want to do it again. The game may be lost, but I'm having a blast.

[Lingchih]

Pan surrenders. I believe all of Team Vet now concede the game.

Good game noobs. You kicked our butts. I would have kept playing, but I was outvoted.

Is it time for Mysteria's Revenge?

[Ironhawk]

Indeed, we do concede. Actually we were ready to concede probably 6 or 7 turns ago. But, we wanted to fight on for honor's sake and to give you all a couple more bruises before we went out. Congratulations to all the noobs, you played well!

I hope that we gave you some good experience and even a couple of surprises. For our part, I think we played pretty well given the staggering size of the odds opposing us. Unfortunately, we were too cocky when choosing our team makeup and map size at the start of the game and in the end that really crippled us. If a rematch of this game does occur I can assure you that that mistake will not happen again :)

[Septimius Severus]

The vet team has conceeded @ turn 20. Thanks to all for your participation. Join us in our new game:

Noobs vs Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge.

Septimius Severus wrote:

"In a victory for noobs everywhere, the intrepid team of fresh young noobs, roundly and soundly defeated the team of seasoned battle-hardened vets, who though they fought valiantly and contested every inch, were ultimately humbled and brought low."

[rdonj]

So you're telling me I roused all those old t'ien ch'i mages from their homes to go knock on ermor's door for nothing? It's a darned shame, that. And I was sure he'd have some suitably nasty surprise waiting for me.

I'm going to lock all our threads for the noob forum and make them open to public viewing. Let you all see just how nooblike our team really was :) I'm going to abstain from the next game, I don't think I'm quite enough of a noob to be proper for this sort of game. I will stay on as admin of the noob forum though and may still end up advising them, but not quite as much as I did this game!

[rdonj]

Okay, creation of new forum done and all threads moved over. I will also be removing all access privileges (except for septimius) to the discussion forum so that only the new batch of noobs (and myself) will be able to see it. So by the time you see this you should not be able to access our planning forum anymore.

[Septimius Severus]

I'll force host the last turn when I can before shutting the game down so that those who sent in a turn will have the opportunity to see the results of their efforts.

[Lavaere]

Awww, I was still walking my demons and fanatics through Gath lands to the front.

[Ironhawk]

Where is the link to the noob forum? I'm curious

FYI, its traditional to state who won the game in the thread title once victory has been achieved. Just to give some love to the winner(s).

[rdonj]

The link is on the first post of the thread. But since I have the noob forum open anyway I'll just link it for you here.

http://teamnoob.forumotion.net/forum.htm

[Lingchih]

That forum is great! I had no idea you guys were so organized. Gosh, all we vets did was email each other every once in a while. Stuff like, "Why the hell can't you hold that chokepoint. Get your *** in gear man."

I don't think that was ever actually said, but you get the idea. We played this game very non-chalantly, and paid the price.

And, to answer some of your queries, yes, Ermor and Pan could have held out for quite a while, and dished out some pain. In the end, we just realized there was no point in it. We were going to lose, regardless.

[rdonj]

:D

Yeah, I think having a place to organize ourselves and discuss battle plans helped us in that game enormously. If he hadn't had such a high level of communication and help between ourselves it could have gone a lot worse for us. There were still some things that didn't quite work as well as I would have liked, but all in all the forum far exceeded the use I had intended it for and was definitely a key part of our victory.

Well, that and two very big breaks. The first was that incredible stroke of luck when mictlan's army was decimated by my pd, allowing gath to sack his capitol. The second was abysia's loss of his god to ulm and his prophet. Actually that prophet should probably be counted as a lucky break himself, his contribution to the defense of ulm's lands was enormous. Without him the game could well have gone quite differently.

I want to know what ermor had at the end to contend with me. I was sending a large army of infantry up, to support a good number of celestial masters scripted to spam cleansing waters at him, combined with a large number of spirit masters (2n 1d) that I needed to give me supplies and were ready to cast mass dust to dust. I was pretty confident that I could defeat the same army pyg had defeated... but then I was expecting there to be something rather more nasty in there.

[pyg]

I'll force host the last turn when I can before shutting the game down so that those who sent in a turn will have the opportunity to see the results of their efforts.

Is this really going to happen? It looks to me like the game went away already. *sniff* I'll never get to see that final battle of Askuth -vs- Mysteria. Askuth probably won anyway right Lingchih?

Overall this game was great fun. Thanks everyone!

[rdonj]

I don't know about anyone else... I received the final turn for me sometime after receiving the message that the game was ending. Not quite sure how that happened, but it did. Unfortunately your area of the island was too well-patrolled for my spies to live very long and I did not see that battle to send you a turn file.

[Lingchih]

I'll force host the last turn when I can before shutting the game down so that those who sent in a turn will have the opportunity to see the results of their efforts.

Is this really going to happen? It looks to me like the game went away already. *sniff* I'll never get to see that final battle of Askuth -vs- Mysteria. Askuth probably won anyway right Lingchih?

Overall this game was great fun. Thanks everyone!

Oh, I wasn't going to send Mysteria against that beast again. I was going to use sacred Black Centaurs to kill it.

[Septimius Severus]

I wonder what you guys think of this idea, posted on the victorious nations thread:

"I'm considering running my Noobs vs Vets series on a regular basis, game 1 focusing on battle tactics, formations, short term strategy and game 2 focusing on longer term strategic planning, magic, and development. This is intended to be something of a public service boot camp curriculum for noobs, vets pitching in to train, teach fresh green noobs the game. Winning or losing for the vets is not the main goal.

Would it be possible to come to some sort of an agreement, as an inducement(or rather reward) to get more Hall of Famer's and expert vets to join, to credit them or count it as a 1/2 victory for HOF ranking purposes, irregardless of whether they win or lose?

It would be a noble thing to do. Just an idea."

Noobs could take both "courses" twice if they wished, or once if they want to. Of course it would depend on the supply of fresh green noobs in the MP Dominions arena (hopefully something that is not diminishing too much) :).